[{"text": "e e", "start": 28.96, "end": 32.96}, {"text": "sound check 1 two3 sound check 1", "start": 71.439, "end": 75.68}, {"text": "two3", "start": 88.92, "end": 91.92}, {"text": "e", "start": 118.84, "end": 121.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 148.84, "end": 151.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 178.84, "end": 181.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 208.76, "end": 211.76}, {"text": "e", "start": 238.72, "end": 241.72}, {"text": "e", "start": 268.72, "end": 271.72}, {"text": "e", "start": 298.639, "end": 301.639}, {"text": "e", "start": 328.639, "end": 331.639}, {"text": "e", "start": 358.639, "end": 361.639}, {"text": "e", "start": 388.56, "end": 391.56}, {"text": "e", "start": 418.52, "end": 421.52}, {"text": "e", "start": 448.52, "end": 451.52}, {"text": "e", "start": 478.44, "end": 481.44}, {"text": "e", "start": 508.44, "end": 511.44}, {"text": "e", "start": 538.44, "end": 541.44}, {"text": "e", "start": 568.36, "end": 571.36}, {"text": "e", "start": 598.32, "end": 601.32}, {"text": "e", "start": 628.32, "end": 631.32}, {"text": "e", "start": 658.24, "end": 661.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 688.24, "end": 691.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 718.24, "end": 721.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 748.16, "end": 751.16}, {"text": "e", "start": 778.12, "end": 781.12}, {"text": "e", "start": 808.12, "end": 811.12}, {"text": "e", "start": 838.04, "end": 841.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 868.04, "end": 871.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 898.04, "end": 901.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 927.959, "end": 930.959}, {"text": "e", "start": 957.92, "end": 960.92}, {"text": "e", "start": 987.92, "end": 990.92}, {"text": "e", "start": 1017.839, "end": 1020.839}, {"text": "e", "start": 1047.84, "end": 1050.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 1077.84, "end": 1080.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 1107.76, "end": 1110.76}, {"text": "e", "start": 1137.72, "end": 1140.72}, {"text": "e e", "start": 1167.72, "end": 1171.72}, {"text": "good afternoon everyone as we have Quorum present for today's meeting I would like to call this meeting of the Hamilton Municipal Heritage committee to", "start": 1225.12, "end": 1231.48}, {"text": "order uh just a reminder that all electronic devices are to be switched to a non- audible function during our", "start": 1231.48, "end": 1237.24}, {"text": "committee meetings we will start off with our roll call as I go through if you can just uh turn your mics on and", "start": 1237.24, "end": 1242.84}, {"text": "acknowledge that you're present councelor crutch I'm present Karen Burke present", "start": 1242.84, "end": 1250.52}, {"text": "Graham Carol present Andrew Douglas present ly lunstead present and we have", "start": 1250.52, "end": 1258.919}, {"text": "regrets from Andy McLaren and stepan [Laughter]", "start": 1258.919, "end": 1265.799}, {"text": "spal I have call I apologize no problem glad to have you here um we will now", "start": 1265.799, "end": 1273.36}, {"text": "move on to our approval our agenda Mr clerk are there any changes to the agenda today yes Madam chair we have one added item to the agenda under", "start": 1273.36, "end": 1279.799}, {"text": "discussion items 10.2 Heritage permit application hp202 4- 032 under part five", "start": 1279.799, "end": 1286.96}, {"text": "of The onter Heritage Act to permit the demolition of a detached contemporary rear shed located at 2 Griffin Street", "start": 1286.96, "end": 1294.44}, {"text": "flamboro ped 24225 Bo 15 thank you Mr clerk may I have a move", "start": 1294.44, "end": 1301.08}, {"text": "in a second or to approve the agenda as amended I see Graham and Karen and is", "start": 1301.08, "end": 1306.52}, {"text": "there one anyone opposed seeing none that item is carried", "start": 1306.52, "end": 1311.6}, {"text": "we now move on to our Declarations of interest do we have any declarations today seeing none we'll move on to our", "start": 1311.6, "end": 1317.96}, {"text": "approval of the minutes of our previous meeting so we have before us the meeting notes from October 25th 2024 may I have", "start": 1317.96, "end": 1325.159}, {"text": "a mover and a second to approve the uh minutes as presented I see", "start": 1325.159, "end": 1332.96}, {"text": "Karen and Graham is there any discussion in regards to the minutes before we move to", "start": 1332.96, "end": 1339.64}, {"text": "vote seeing none is there anyone opposed that item is", "start": 1339.64, "end": 1346.52}, {"text": "carried under communication it items uh may I please have a mover and a second to put the communication items on the", "start": 1346.52, "end": 1352.159}, {"text": "floor we have item 5.1 5.2 and 5.3 on our agenda today I see Len and Graham is", "start": 1352.159, "end": 1358.799}, {"text": "there any discussions in regards to those communication items if not we will move to vote oh oh", "start": 1358.799, "end": 1366}, {"text": "go ahead go ahead yeah under C for uh James Street Baptist there's a been a lot of changes", "start": 1366, "end": 1373.52}, {"text": "in the Heritage permit a lot of additions and new stipulations so I was kind of wondering", "start": 1373.52, "end": 1380.039}, {"text": "what a lot of them were about through the chair Lisa golden", "start": 1380.039, "end": 1386.52}, {"text": "cultural heritage program lead um so this delegated uh extension approval for", "start": 1386.52, "end": 1392.88}, {"text": "98 um James Street so the former James Street Baptist Church this is an extension actually of the previously", "start": 1392.88, "end": 1398.6}, {"text": "approved permit which we did do an information report to this Committee in terms of clarifying uh the change in", "start": 1398.6, "end": 1405.24}, {"text": "conditions to reflect the commitments of the previous owners and some of the reports we had received um so this is", "start": 1405.24, "end": 1412.44}, {"text": "the same conditions as the previous approval that we had provided a more comprehensive update on um trying to", "start": 1412.44, "end": 1418.919}, {"text": "think of it was last fall uh and this just reflects a a change in dates to", "start": 1418.919, "end": 1424.64}, {"text": "permit the extension of that previous permit yeah but there is stuff like leveling of the ground and taking away", "start": 1424.64, "end": 1431.919}, {"text": "just construction debris which is kind of new never heard that before I know councelor cret had asked for that", "start": 1431.919, "end": 1440.12}, {"text": "uh through the chair so these are the same conditions as the previous Heritage perment extension and I'd be happy to", "start": 1440.12, "end": 1446.679}, {"text": "recirculate that previous staff information report that gives some clarity in terms of where those conditions come from okay think I didn't", "start": 1446.679, "end": 1452.76}, {"text": "remember still being in there and there is a a combination of a new Salvage and", "start": 1452.76, "end": 1460.84}, {"text": "documentation mentioned in two or three places so they already have one from 2024 March 2024 so why you asking for a", "start": 1460.84, "end": 1469.279}, {"text": "new one in part e under section two through the chair just taking a", "start": 1469.279, "end": 1478.6}, {"text": "look um so in terms of the previous documentation report we had it was a state of the existing conditions um as", "start": 1480.679, "end": 1488.88}, {"text": "we move forward depending on when the Redevelopment Project work begins there", "start": 1488.88, "end": 1493.96}, {"text": "might be a change in that so that covers any potential changes and new documentation we might require moving", "start": 1493.96, "end": 1499.88}, {"text": "forward thank you uh and now the condition of all the salvaged items have", "start": 1499.88, "end": 1505}, {"text": "you as staff got a chance to go in there to look at them is there an allowance under this new permit for monthly or", "start": 1505, "end": 1512.039}, {"text": "bimonthly monitoring of these salvaged items through the chair to the member", "start": 1512.039, "end": 1518.12}, {"text": "yes so um back before the previous extension which we had provided the staff Report with more detail on uh", "start": 1518.12, "end": 1525.039}, {"text": "staff were on site at the time that the her Consultants engineer and ownership at the time were there so we did also", "start": 1525.039, "end": 1531.48}, {"text": "document the state of Salvage conditions that are still on site um and in terms", "start": 1531.48, "end": 1536.72}, {"text": "of um uh confirming next steps there is a condition that speaks to implementing", "start": 1536.72, "end": 1543.08}, {"text": "the recommendations of that documentation Salvage report to ensure that there isn't further deterioration", "start": 1543.08, "end": 1548.48}, {"text": "of those features and there's a new um expiry for that requirement in this", "start": 1548.48, "end": 1555.2}, {"text": "extension is there any specific requirement to go with the rose window that's been on the property not properly", "start": 1555.2, "end": 1562.159}, {"text": "covered and fell over and possibly damaged through the share that has been", "start": 1562.159, "end": 1567.72}, {"text": "indicated to the ownership group and is also identified in that report so that would be staff's expectation in terms of", "start": 1567.72, "end": 1574.399}, {"text": "we have seen the state of it um as folks might recall it did fall over during the frequent storm and um was too large to", "start": 1574.399, "end": 1581.76}, {"text": "move off site and had been covered a number of years ago uh it has unfortunately deteriorated as a result", "start": 1581.76, "end": 1587.679}, {"text": "of that fall and the the conditions um so we would be looking and that's part", "start": 1587.679, "end": 1593.52}, {"text": "of also in terms of updated documentation understanding the state of that moving forward and what is feasible", "start": 1593.52, "end": 1599.399}, {"text": "in terms of either salvaging of components of that or potentially trying to recreate that in a new", "start": 1599.399, "end": 1606.399}, {"text": "development thank you on that there's also a lot of other windows on site so imagine you're monitoring those as well", "start": 1607.279, "end": 1612.919}, {"text": "uh is there a performance bond required on this one still like do they have guarantee Financial guarantees they have", "start": 1612.919, "end": 1618.24}, {"text": "have to do something to Heritage", "start": 1618.24, "end": 1623.08}, {"text": "features uh through the chair uh if I recall correctly we do still have", "start": 1623.64, "end": 1629}, {"text": "initial Securities but those were with the original owner back at the time of the original application in", "start": 1629, "end": 1636.6}, {"text": "2014 um at this point no in terms of this existing application there's no new", "start": 1636.6, "end": 1642.6}, {"text": "security requirement um be happy to take a look and and", "start": 1642.6, "end": 1648.24}, {"text": "confirm the contents of that but that's my recollection at this time thank you maybe it's time we", "start": 1648.24, "end": 1653.76}, {"text": "consider upping that because of what this happened at the gore and there's also a mention of a reasonable access is", "start": 1653.76, "end": 1660.84}, {"text": "there a definition of what that is is that monthly", "start": 1660.84, "end": 1665.518}, {"text": "weekly through the chair to the member can you confirm which [Music]", "start": 1667.08, "end": 1672.24}, {"text": "section okay it was earlier in the uh the", "start": 1672.24, "end": 1677.32}, {"text": "document okay through the chair staff can take a look at that and and report back just in", "start": 1677.32, "end": 1683.48}, {"text": "terms of thank you just one", "start": 1683.48, "end": 1689.36}, {"text": "sec oh I see so that is the members referring to condition e uh", "start": 1690.84, "end": 1698.36}, {"text": "item four three um no I don't have a", "start": 1698.36, "end": 1704.32}, {"text": "definition on hand but I will say that uh with the previous owners and then the", "start": 1704.32, "end": 1709.48}, {"text": "current receivership company that has ownership currently and is helping to coordinate they've been very responsive", "start": 1709.48, "end": 1715.32}, {"text": "in terms of inter permitting access and staff have also been able to uh access", "start": 1715.32, "end": 1720.399}, {"text": "the site uh with Municipal law enforcement staff as well in terms of their regular inspection so um I would", "start": 1720.399, "end": 1726.84}, {"text": "say that there aren't any concerns from a Heritage staff perspective in terms of being granted that reasonable access", "start": 1726.84, "end": 1732.96}, {"text": "currently okay thank you just for my history on the union activism reasonable", "start": 1732.96, "end": 1738.6}, {"text": "and what we what the employer consider reasonable what we consider reasonable was never the same thing so always nice", "start": 1738.6, "end": 1744.96}, {"text": "to Define what is reasonable thank you that's all my questions thanks gr um are there any", "start": 1744.96, "end": 1752.44}, {"text": "other questions in regards to the report oh coun CR go yeah this is pretty much just the", "start": 1752.44, "end": 1757.799}, {"text": "reiteration of the report that had a former deadline in for August 31st if I recall and then when the property went", "start": 1757.799, "end": 1763}, {"text": "into receivership then we had to of course think about giving this permit to the receiver I think one of the things", "start": 1763, "end": 1768.6}, {"text": "that's tricky with this specific property is just how many times the ownership changes and then what we do with the ownership and so one of the", "start": 1768.6, "end": 1774.36}, {"text": "things you mentioned or highlighted was the fact that we have Securities reserved from you know such a long time", "start": 1774.36, "end": 1779.64}, {"text": "ago now that are sat there it's a weird activity the problem is that we literally took Securities from a previous owner we retain those", "start": 1779.64, "end": 1786.76}, {"text": "Securities that person doesn't own the property anymore and so we have no not like what do we do with that money so my", "start": 1786.76, "end": 1792.76}, {"text": "first question is that and then I have one more question so what like what are obligations around money from a previous owner that are held in secure ities for", "start": 1792.76, "end": 1798.44}, {"text": "a project they never actually did and what was it look like to try and think through like Graham said do we ask for", "start": 1798.44, "end": 1805.919}, {"text": "more Securities because now time has passed on like I just don't understand this activity and what what what our obligations are to keep that money in", "start": 1805.919, "end": 1811.679}, {"text": "trust for what through the chair K qu director of", "start": 1811.679, "end": 1818.279}, {"text": "Heritage and Urban Design um in terms of the actual Securities I assume we would use them to repair the building as", "start": 1818.279, "end": 1824.64}, {"text": "required if in such case that repair or work is not occurring uh I can't speak", "start": 1824.64, "end": 1829.679}, {"text": "to legally about who owns what when um there's ongoing discussions about how that works uh in terms of this situation", "start": 1829.679, "end": 1838.399}, {"text": "um we've worked closely with building as well as there's active building permits on the site uh to elicit a similar", "start": 1838.399, "end": 1845.48}, {"text": "number of conditions um around maintaining", "start": 1845.48, "end": 1850.88}, {"text": "engineering um moving forward with a new uh a new project and new planning", "start": 1850.88, "end": 1856.12}, {"text": "approvals within specific timelines that are outlined very similar to The Heritage so we're using that tool as", "start": 1856.12, "end": 1862.159}, {"text": "this the possible new purchaser and the and the receiver have uh indicated a", "start": 1862.159, "end": 1869.12}, {"text": "reasonable time to start to actually construct this building so there's a bunch of conditions to these permits", "start": 1869.12, "end": 1874.44}, {"text": "that are holding them to that timeline and to and to maintaining the building and investing in the building the", "start": 1874.44, "end": 1880.76}, {"text": "existing Heritage feature to keep it in good shape until such time and as Alyssa said they have been very um", "start": 1880.76, "end": 1888.76}, {"text": "accommodating and they've already done some of the work requested and done some enhanced engineering reports that have", "start": 1888.76, "end": 1895.2}, {"text": "been provided to building so they are moving forward uh in a way we're much more comfortable with than the previous", "start": 1895.2, "end": 1901.799}, {"text": "owner had thanks I'm certainly looking forward", "start": 1901.799, "end": 1908.2}, {"text": "to this surface being greated than having a conversation with the new owner I guess one more thing I want to", "start": 1908.2, "end": 1914.32}, {"text": "understand is the check that happens next so I understand that this really this this building a permit applies to", "start": 1914.32, "end": 1919.919}, {"text": "the receiver who currently has the the visit also to apply to the new owner though like we can do that already even", "start": 1919.919, "end": 1925.799}, {"text": "though I know there's some kind of weird bid thing going on right now and people still have time to put in more bids higher than the $19 million purchase", "start": 1925.799, "end": 1932.399}, {"text": "price I think if I recall that was the price um that was advertised so is that", "start": 1932.399, "end": 1937.519}, {"text": "is that a reasonable understanding or if it was 13 million or whatever it was but the point is is that my understanding is it this applies also to the new folks", "start": 1937.519, "end": 1944.399}, {"text": "through the chair to the counselor yes so in terms of her permit approvals it it's not tied to the specific person", "start": 1944.399, "end": 1950.039}, {"text": "that applies for it but to the property so if there's a scope of work that's approved under one permit ownership changes that scope of work is still", "start": 1950.039, "end": 1956}, {"text": "permitted and to be implemented by a future owner do we have to like change something when we do that just by putting a new owner's name on here like", "start": 1956, "end": 1962.12}, {"text": "is there some technicality that has to come back to this committee or no it just kind of stands in place until the time it expires it would stand in place", "start": 1962.12, "end": 1968.159}, {"text": "unless there was some sort of change or new approval requested in which case we we process that and there might be", "start": 1968.159, "end": 1973.279}, {"text": "further review by this committee and the permit review subcommittee depending on what's proposed", "start": 1973.279, "end": 1979.84}, {"text": "okay um finally just wanted to get if you could summarize maybe why you're so optimistic about what's happening like I", "start": 1980, "end": 1985.159}, {"text": "think I know the details because we talked about this stuff a little bit in between meetings when these things happened in War I so why you're so", "start": 1985.159, "end": 1991.279}, {"text": "optimistic about what the current receiver and new owner are doing here that's different than before like what you're seeing specifically that's making", "start": 1991.279, "end": 1996.96}, {"text": "you feel like they're taking care of the building or you know they're making sure that these things are happening in a reasonable way like what's giving you", "start": 1996.96, "end": 2002.72}, {"text": "such confidence that this is going in a good way through the chair of the counselor", "start": 2002.72, "end": 2008.039}, {"text": "um we do have someone from building on the line who might be able to also speak to it uh Bob n's here but I will just", "start": 2008.039, "end": 2013.76}, {"text": "note in terms of just Heritage staff's involvement and continued conversation um uh there's been a number of measures", "start": 2013.76, "end": 2020.76}, {"text": "in terms of asks from our colleagues in building in order to allow for more proactive and safe monitoring of the", "start": 2020.76, "end": 2026.72}, {"text": "building moving forward including reconstructing an interior platform uh to be able to access the upper stories", "start": 2026.72, "end": 2032.279}, {"text": "of The Remnant structure uh so a number of steps along those lines have already been undertaken um and they've been", "start": 2032.279, "end": 2038.36}, {"text": "working cooperatively with our colleagues in building which is very much a", "start": 2038.36, "end": 2045.279}, {"text": "positive okay last thought for me I think I've said that once already but I lied sorry so last thought for me is", "start": 2045.279, "end": 2050.919}, {"text": "that this is the grading and the rubble clear up and all that kind of stuff are planed to be happening for July 1st 2025", "start": 2050.919, "end": 2057.118}, {"text": "what happens if it doesn't happen by then I'm just asking because I know we've we've been trying to get that to happen for more than one year now and my", "start": 2057.119, "end": 2064.48}, {"text": "goal eventually is to try and have a conversation with the owner about what we can do with with that land until it gets developed so that we can maybe have", "start": 2064.48, "end": 2070.28}, {"text": "again have a green space or something that can be used by the public in the meantime so um I can't have that", "start": 2070.28, "end": 2076.638}, {"text": "conversation till the grading actually happens and so what happens when we get there and it doesn't happen I know that the permit will expire like there's all", "start": 2076.639, "end": 2081.878}, {"text": "the kinds of things that we can do there but can we just like send people in and grade the site already and just like charge them for doing", "start": 2081.879, "end": 2088.04}, {"text": "so through the chair so my understanding of the rubber the rubble in particular", "start": 2088.04, "end": 2093.2}, {"text": "is the challenge is what provisions and which act enforcement of that would follow under and I think that there is", "start": 2093.2, "end": 2100.04}, {"text": "um an issue in terms of that not necessarily being a standard under the Property Standards bylaw that could be", "start": 2100.04, "end": 2105.76}, {"text": "enforced it was a commitment that was made by the previous owners when they renewed the permit last year um and so", "start": 2105.76, "end": 2112.88}, {"text": "we were able to include that as a condition and Implement that through the haage permit process but other than uh", "start": 2112.88, "end": 2118.76}, {"text": "removal of weeds and some of the other more standard Property Standards issues that could be enforced uh through that", "start": 2118.76, "end": 2124.68}, {"text": "mechanism I I don't believe that leveling is something that can be enforced through that mechanism or", "start": 2124.68, "end": 2131.52}, {"text": "through uh building that's my understanding so that's where the fact that we have that included in the her", "start": 2131.52, "end": 2137.4}, {"text": "permit condition uh ties them to that in terms of being able to advance and move forward but in terms of recourse I don't", "start": 2137.4, "end": 2144.76}, {"text": "believe that we have one oh so if they fail to meet conditions of the permit we can just not", "start": 2144.76, "end": 2150.68}, {"text": "renew the permit which is the only recourse that they have which would prevent them from really developing on the site in some ways so I suppose", "start": 2150.68, "end": 2158.119}, {"text": "that's the incentive but I I hope you'll keep us informed just about the progress that's being made toward that grading because I would want us to get to June", "start": 2158.119, "end": 2164.24}, {"text": "and then have another promise that we're going to be getting this happening and it doesn't happen um I think we have to", "start": 2164.24, "end": 2169.8}, {"text": "take a really proactive attempts to make sure that the rubble's cleaned up the things are saved and secured properly and that the site is graded and dealt", "start": 2169.8, "end": 2176.359}, {"text": "with in a way that U makes it not such a unbelievable eyesore thank", "start": 2176.359, "end": 2182.76}, {"text": "you thank you counselor um are there any other questions regarding that the communication", "start": 2183.319, "end": 2190.88}, {"text": "items seeing none uh we'll move on to vote is there anyone opposed to receiving these communication", "start": 2191.16, "end": 2198.44}, {"text": "items seeing none that item is carried under our section for staff", "start": 2200, "end": 2206.44}, {"text": "presentations item 8.1 uh before us is a recommendation to designate 223", "start": 2206.44, "end": 2211.64}, {"text": "Governor's R Dundas Starfield under part four of the Ontario Heritage act ped 24181 and 13 uh so we have Meg our", "start": 2211.64, "end": 2219.68}, {"text": "culture Heritage planner who was going to be giving us a presentation welcome", "start": 2219.68, "end": 2224.799}, {"text": "Meg good afternoon everyone uh me Oldfield cultural heritage planner uh sorry I couldn't be in person with you", "start": 2229.599, "end": 2235.92}, {"text": "all today but still happy to be here uh today I'll be presenting staff report peed", "start": 2235.92, "end": 2242.8}, {"text": "24181 which recommends that the property located at 223 Governor's Road D ass", "start": 2242.8, "end": 2248.079}, {"text": "also known as Starfield be designated under part four of the Ontario Heritage", "start": 2248.079, "end": 2254.76}, {"text": "act uh as you can see the property is located in Dundas near the corner of Governor's road and kraton road uh the", "start": 2258.48, "end": 2265.359}, {"text": "property is comprised of a combined one and a half and twostory brick dwelling constructed Circa 1870", "start": 2265.359, "end": 2273.838}, {"text": "uh the property was first surveyed for Heritage interest in the 1990s and was added to the city's Municipal Heritage", "start": 2278.599, "end": 2284.2}, {"text": "register in February of 2022 uh at that time the owners requested that the property be", "start": 2284.2, "end": 2291.72}, {"text": "designated so in preparation for this report staff conducted a site visit to the property in June of 2023 and have", "start": 2294.88, "end": 2301.079}, {"text": "drafted statement of cultural heritage value or interest uh which is attached as appendix B to this report it has been", "start": 2301.079, "end": 2307.48}, {"text": "determine that the property meets six of the nine criteria contained in Ontario regulation", "start": 2307.48, "end": 2314}, {"text": "906 I will now outline the cultural heritage value of the property uh the property is comprised of a combined one", "start": 2316.28, "end": 2322.92}, {"text": "and a half and two-story brick dwelling again constructed C 1870 uh the property is a representative example of a", "start": 2322.92, "end": 2329.04}, {"text": "vernacular dwelling uh with classical Revival influences as demonstrated by the wooden fluted ionic columns uh which", "start": 2329.04, "end": 2336.359}, {"text": "also demonstrate a high High degree of craftsmanship uh the historical value of", "start": 2336.359, "end": 2342.88}, {"text": "the property lies in its direct association with people significant to the history and evolution of Dundas and", "start": 2342.88, "end": 2348.52}, {"text": "its economy includ including Timothy Greening owner of the property from 1869", "start": 2348.52, "end": 2353.76}, {"text": "to 1896 uh in 1858 Timothy Greening immigrated to Hamilton with his half brother Benjamin Greening descended from", "start": 2353.76, "end": 2360.96}, {"text": "a long line of wire manufacturers Timothy Greening operated the te Greening wireworks uh which was formerly", "start": 2360.96, "end": 2367.44}, {"text": "located directly west of this property uh from 1860 until his death in 1900", "start": 2367.44, "end": 2373}, {"text": "there they manufactured wire cloth and Sheet Metal the property is also associated with John maw a local", "start": 2373, "end": 2379.28}, {"text": "businessman who resided at the property between 1904 and 1920 uh in 1865 ma", "start": 2379.28, "end": 2385.24}, {"text": "partnered with James ller to form the Dundas toolworks which manufactured iron and woodworking Machinery in the 1880s", "start": 2385.24, "end": 2391.96}, {"text": "ma joined the be Greening wireworks in Hamilton serving as superintendent until 1906 at which time he was appointed", "start": 2391.96, "end": 2398.28}, {"text": "chairman of the board of directors uh finally the property helps", "start": 2398.28, "end": 2404.96}, {"text": "Define the historic character of Governor's Road standing out from the surrounding mid 20th century residential", "start": 2404.96, "end": 2410.16}, {"text": "streetscape as one of the few extent mid 19th century homes uh the property is historically", "start": 2410.16, "end": 2416.44}, {"text": "functionally and Visually linked to its surroundings again as one of the few surviving mid 19th century Homes located", "start": 2416.44, "end": 2422.119}, {"text": "along the Dundas portion of Governor's Road and for its connection to the site of the former te Greening wire fir Works", "start": 2422.119, "end": 2427.72}, {"text": "Factory to the West initially situated on a 4 hectare lot the property was home to an orchard and other small scale", "start": 2427.72, "end": 2434}, {"text": "agricultural Pursuits due to its prominent location uh on a raised elevation along Governor's Road the", "start": 2434, "end": 2440.16}, {"text": "property is also considered to be a local Landmark so in summary uh 223 Governor's", "start": 2440.16, "end": 2447.8}, {"text": "Road meets six of the nine criteria it's a representative example of a mid 19th century vernacular dwelling with", "start": 2447.8, "end": 2453.72}, {"text": "classical Revival influences uh and it also displays a highr crafts ship It's associated with two prominent Dundas", "start": 2453.72, "end": 2460.44}, {"text": "industrialists Timothy Greening and John maw and the property helps Define the historic character of Governor's Road", "start": 2460.44, "end": 2466.28}, {"text": "being historically functionally and Visually linked to its surroundings and is also considered to be a local", "start": 2466.28, "end": 2471.64}, {"text": "Landmark this is a condensed version of the statement of cultural heritage value or interest uh the full version of which", "start": 2471.64, "end": 2477.119}, {"text": "can be found in appendix B of this report important to the conservation of", "start": 2477.119, "end": 2483.88}, {"text": "223 Governor's road is all elevations and roof lines of the combined one and a half and twostory brick dwelling which", "start": 2483.88, "end": 2490.079}, {"text": "includes all the historic elements and decorative details present on these features including the brick facades", "start": 2490.079, "end": 2495.28}, {"text": "loow hipped roof window openings and ionic columns also important to the", "start": 2495.28, "end": 2500.359}, {"text": "conservation of 223 Governor's road is its deep setback and prominent elevated location on Governor's", "start": 2500.359, "end": 2507.76}, {"text": "Road as such staff are recommending that the city clerk be directed to give notice of council's intention to", "start": 2508.72, "end": 2514.24}, {"text": "designate this property as property of cultural heritage value under part four of the Ontario Heritage", "start": 2514.24, "end": 2520.96}, {"text": "act with that being said are there any questions thank you Meg um I've got", "start": 2520.96, "end": 2528.76}, {"text": "Graham is there any other questions so we'll start with graham thank you Meg for the Fantastic", "start": 2528.76, "end": 2534.92}, {"text": "presentation it's really good to to see this and uh especially since as you were unable to attend in person due to a", "start": 2534.92, "end": 2543.44}, {"text": "problem I also want to thank the property owners for approaching us to be designated unfortunately none enough", "start": 2543.44, "end": 2550.319}, {"text": "property owners in Hamilton are taking the care of the Heritage properties that they own and are entrusted to preserve", "start": 2550.319, "end": 2557.96}, {"text": "for future Generations as we have seen in the last month here in the city of Hamilton we've had a a rash of problems", "start": 2557.96, "end": 2566.44}, {"text": "sadly so it's nice to see a property owner take the care take the time and appreciate the beauty of our built built", "start": 2566.44, "end": 2574.76}, {"text": "Heritage in our city thank you thanks gram do we have any other", "start": 2574.76, "end": 2580.96}, {"text": "questions in regards to the report seeing none we are going to move", "start": 2580.96, "end": 2586.92}, {"text": "on to um need a move in a second or to receive the presentation I see Stefan and", "start": 2586.92, "end": 2593.839}, {"text": "Graham and is there anyone opposed to receive seeing none that item", "start": 2593.839, "end": 2599.28}, {"text": "is carried we now move on to the report um may have a move in a second to put forward the report recommendations", "start": 2599.28, "end": 2605.52}, {"text": "which were outlined by Mick and her Pres presentation I see Karen and Lynn do we have any questions in regards", "start": 2605.52, "end": 2611.599}, {"text": "to the report itself seeing none um is there anyone", "start": 2611.599, "end": 2619.079}, {"text": "opposed that item is carried under consent items 9.1 we have", "start": 2619.92, "end": 2628.16}, {"text": "our heritage permit review subcommittee me uh meeting minutes from um October 15th 2024 may have a mover and a", "start": 2628.16, "end": 2635.52}, {"text": "seconder to put uh the consent item on the floor I see Graham and Karen uh and", "start": 2635.52, "end": 2641.28}, {"text": "I believe staff just wanted to provide some clarification in regards to the meeting notes uh through the chair yes just", "start": 2641.28, "end": 2647.16}, {"text": "wanted to confirm I think there were some questions about uh whether the most recent November meeting of per review", "start": 2647.16, "end": 2652.8}, {"text": "subcomittee would be on this agenda so just clarifying that these are the minutes from October uh the minutes from", "start": 2652.8, "end": 2658.16}, {"text": "the November meeting would be uh confirmed and approved at their December meeting and then would be coming to this", "start": 2658.16, "end": 2664.28}, {"text": "committee for information only thank you Alissa um so do we have any questions in regards to these meeting", "start": 2664.28, "end": 2670.079}, {"text": "notes for October seeing none um as we move to vote is there anyone opposed to", "start": 2670.079, "end": 2676.4}, {"text": "receiving seeing none that item is carried under our discussion items item", "start": 2676.4, "end": 2682.28}, {"text": "10.1 is a review of the working group memberships um so at our meeting on November 28 2023 so a year ago um we", "start": 2682.28, "end": 2689.68}, {"text": "went through the working group um memberships and we established who was going to to sit on that and we said we", "start": 2689.68, "end": 2695.079}, {"text": "would come back to review that so we've now coming up up on the one year anniversary so it's good timing um so we have our working group so we have the", "start": 2695.079, "end": 2701.64}, {"text": "education and Communications working group so those members were myself Karen Burke Stefan spalik and counselor cret", "start": 2701.64, "end": 2708.839}, {"text": "um we have our inventory and research working group which was myself ly linstead and Andy McLaren and uh our", "start": 2708.839, "end": 2716.119}, {"text": "policy and design working group which was myself Andrew Douglas and ly linstead so um this item was placed on", "start": 2716.119, "end": 2721.72}, {"text": "the agenda so the committee can review The Working groups uh and the memberships and determine if any members wish to participate or wish to change", "start": 2721.72, "end": 2728.64}, {"text": "and and can no longer participate um so now is the time to do some discussion and councelor", "start": 2728.64, "end": 2734.8}, {"text": "crch yeah I aspirationally joined the working group to help but it always had", "start": 2734.8, "end": 2741.76}, {"text": "a conflict with something else I was doing and so I was never able to attend for full transparency and me being there creates weirdo Quorum issues so I will", "start": 2741.76, "end": 2749.76}, {"text": "resign from that committee so that it doesn't create those Corum issues and hopefully the people who can make those meetings can carry on in my absence my", "start": 2749.76, "end": 2756.16}, {"text": "continued absence thank you counselor um so I think a change to the education working group", "start": 2756.16, "end": 2762.8}, {"text": "would also be that a gram if if you would like to continue to participate in well still participate yes well", "start": 2762.8, "end": 2770.119}, {"text": "yeah I do have a question about the inventory and research group of was it met in the last", "start": 2770.119, "end": 2777.119}, {"text": "year through the share know we had paused meetings following the cyber security incident and we've also had a", "start": 2778, "end": 2785.319}, {"text": "change in terms of our process so now with our um uh our new process for designations we're no longer bringing", "start": 2785.319, "end": 2792.4}, {"text": "that preliminary work to that working group we have asked a number of times in terms of if there was items and there", "start": 2792.4, "end": 2797.72}, {"text": "was some discussion about re-engaging the places of worship inventory review staff had started doing some leg work", "start": 2797.72, "end": 2804.04}, {"text": "pre cyber security incident so it is something that we are still hoping to report back on um but at this point no", "start": 2804.04, "end": 2810.4}, {"text": "we haven't called a meeting since the cyber security incident okay we're just going to put it", "start": 2810.4, "end": 2816.44}, {"text": "like in a and if we need it we'll restart it through the chair yes if there was uh an", "start": 2816.44, "end": 2823.079}, {"text": "item that the members were looking to bring forward we can certainly call a meeting and we also are still a staff", "start": 2823.079, "end": 2829.079}, {"text": "working towards pulling together um an update on the places of worship", "start": 2829.079, "end": 2834.16}, {"text": "inventory review so that project can be re-engaged as", "start": 2834.16, "end": 2838.72}, {"text": "well uh Karen did you have a question I just had a question um with councelor crutch saying that it was issues of", "start": 2839.359, "end": 2846}, {"text": "quorum that maybe we had too many of this committee on that working group does that mean if Graham joins that it", "start": 2846, "end": 2852.76}, {"text": "is also going to be an issue with Quorum that we have too many people there or did I misunderstand no the Quorum Corum", "start": 2852.76, "end": 2860.04}, {"text": "is like to the chair and no the only the issue was that um Graham was also", "start": 2860.04, "end": 2866.079}, {"text": "attending so if councelor cret would attend as well that would put up to", "start": 2866.079, "end": 2872.359}, {"text": "five are there any other questions or clarifications any additions to the", "start": 2874.4, "end": 2880.599}, {"text": "policy and design working group seeing none so may I have a move", "start": 2880.599, "end": 2886.48}, {"text": "and a second or to uh uh move to approve the changes to the working group membership I see councelor crutch and", "start": 2886.48, "end": 2892.64}, {"text": "stepan okay and is there anyone opposed seeing none that item is", "start": 2892.64, "end": 2901.078}, {"text": "carried um we now move on to item 10.2 which is our heritage permit application hp202", "start": 2902.68, "end": 2909.28}, {"text": "4-32 under part 5 of the Ontario Heritage act to permit the demolition of a detached contemporary rear shed", "start": 2909.28, "end": 2915.48}, {"text": "located at two Griffin Street in flamboro ped 24225 and W 15 so may I", "start": 2915.48, "end": 2921.599}, {"text": "have a mover in a seconder to put the report recommendations on the floor I see Graham and", "start": 2921.599, "end": 2928.68}, {"text": "Lynn are there any questions in regards to this item I'm just curious why this item come", "start": 2928.68, "end": 2934.64}, {"text": "up as a discussion item as opposed to just going through at the regular minutes", "start": 2934.64, "end": 2940.28}, {"text": "part through the chair so this type of Heritage permit application which is to demolish uh a structure in a her", "start": 2940.28, "end": 2947.559}, {"text": "Conservation District it requires a council uh decision so it did go to the permanent review subcommittee for advice", "start": 2947.559, "end": 2954.559}, {"text": "um but it is also a staff report that needs to come through this committee for its advice up to planning committee and", "start": 2954.559, "end": 2959.76}, {"text": "then Council it is relatively straightforward so staff haven't provided a formal presentation it is", "start": 2959.76, "end": 2964.96}, {"text": "just a contemporary shed that we have no concerns about its demolition although Don does have slides uh and images", "start": 2964.96, "end": 2970.68}, {"text": "available if the members have any questions about it thank you I forgotten we had to do that because of demolition", "start": 2970.68, "end": 2977.2}, {"text": "that explains it are there any other", "start": 2977.2, "end": 2983.28}, {"text": "questions um so you have your mve in a seconder so", "start": 2983.4, "end": 2988.599}, {"text": "as we move to vote anyone opposed seeing none that item is carried", "start": 2988.599, "end": 2994.96}, {"text": "okay uh we now move on to for our general information other business 13.1 is our buildings and Landscapes I know", "start": 2994.96, "end": 3001.079}, {"text": "this has been a very challenging month since we last met um so if I could start a speakers list of people that would", "start": 3001.079, "end": 3007.68}, {"text": "like um to provide updates or questions in regards to property so Graham um do", "start": 3007.68, "end": 3012.88}, {"text": "we have any other speakers um I can Pro uh Andrew", "start": 3012.88, "end": 3018.64}, {"text": "okay um I can provide an update as well on one property and C okay all right uh go", "start": 3018.64, "end": 3026.76}, {"text": "ahead gram well first I'd like to comment on the general thing with endangered", "start": 3026.76, "end": 3033.079}, {"text": "buildings and Landscapes why aren't we recording in the minutes what we were", "start": 3033.079, "end": 3039.72}, {"text": "reporting in the meeting like if we have a concern or what's going on so the council can understand what's going on", "start": 3039.72, "end": 3046.68}, {"text": "because they don't obviously have the time to watch our meetings live stream so if we have a concern let's say like", "start": 3046.68, "end": 3052.559}, {"text": "the the buildings at the gore but you know it's a past thing", "start": 3052.559, "end": 3057.599}, {"text": "if we have a concern and bring it up and mention it and the minutes go up to council they", "start": 3057.599, "end": 3063.88}, {"text": "at least have a chance at reading what we've stated and we don't have anything recorded", "start": 3063.88, "end": 3069}, {"text": "apparently terms previous to me they did record these under the chair as per the", "start": 3069, "end": 3075.76}, {"text": "municipal act we are required to record the minutes without note or comment so we only record actions that the", "start": 3075.76, "end": 3081.359}, {"text": "committee takes", "start": 3081.359, "end": 3084.759}, {"text": "well that's interesting okay that might explain why they stopped doing it okay so for me it's uh 537 King Street East", "start": 3089.88, "end": 3097.799}, {"text": "the former Rebels Rock it's been in the paper two or three four times this year", "start": 3097.799, "end": 3103.599}, {"text": "now twice for fires once with or twice with articles in Nicole O'Reilly and uh", "start": 3103.599, "end": 3109.599}, {"text": "comments from me we just found out overnight in the", "start": 3109.599, "end": 3114.96}, {"text": "the paper and I've been talking to staff before Eliz gold in this particular that", "start": 3114.96, "end": 3120.079}, {"text": "we are going to lose this building it does not look all that dangerous to me but I'm just a a mill right so what do I", "start": 3120.079, "end": 3128.92}, {"text": "know so I hate to report that looks like 537 shall be demolished with uh we've", "start": 3128.92, "end": 3135.96}, {"text": "had some building features removed from the building to store and make safe as I", "start": 3135.96, "end": 3142.28}, {"text": "found from the staff today thank you", "start": 3142.28, "end": 3146.76}, {"text": "thanks K and through the chair um staff are working on a report that we're hoping to bring to the December meeting", "start": 3147.72, "end": 3153.72}, {"text": "with an update on the status of this property the situation that evolved quite quickly following the second fire", "start": 3153.72, "end": 3159.839}, {"text": "this year and the most recent order uh to demolish due to unsafe conditions so there will be more information and", "start": 3159.839, "end": 3166.28}, {"text": "documentation that's been provided by the owner in terms of um the assessment", "start": 3166.28, "end": 3171.44}, {"text": "that uh was provided to our colleagues in building that deemed the structure unsafe as as well as information on uh", "start": 3171.44, "end": 3178.2}, {"text": "the features uh that have been salvaged from the building preparing for Demolition and uh hopefully confirmation", "start": 3178.2, "end": 3185}, {"text": "and further detail from the owner in terms of the full list of those details uh of those um items that have been", "start": 3185, "end": 3190.4}, {"text": "salvaged how they'll be stored safely until potential integration into a new development on", "start": 3190.4, "end": 3197.92}, {"text": "site and my want wall report on former St GES Church on the corner of HT in", "start": 3199.2, "end": 3204.68}, {"text": "Maine uh lately there's been some uh tenters in the back in the alleyway", "start": 3204.68, "end": 3211.24}, {"text": "camping up next to the structure the neighbors have reported to me that they've seen people they did not state", "start": 3211.24, "end": 3218.559}, {"text": "whether it was the connection with the tend or not removing stuff off the doors", "start": 3218.559, "end": 3223.839}, {"text": "to get into the building and putting them back on again after they've been in we have let United Church property", "start": 3223.839, "end": 3231.559}, {"text": "company and Kindred Works know lately I've informed counselor n", "start": 3231.559, "end": 3237.4}, {"text": "and her office about the tenting she was going to get uh missible law enforcement and the", "start": 3237.4, "end": 3244.599}, {"text": "encampment uh protocol people involved to visit on the site to see if they get", "start": 3244.599, "end": 3250.359}, {"text": "cleared off the neighbors are still telling me that they have not seen anybody yet approach them the 310 are", "start": 3250.359, "end": 3257.359}, {"text": "still in the back the debris is building up and that's always a problem when we", "start": 3257.359, "end": 3262.68}, {"text": "start getting into winter as we know we lost Rebels Rock because of things like", "start": 3262.68, "end": 3268.96}, {"text": "this people getting in or onto the building property site starting fires to", "start": 3268.96, "end": 3274.799}, {"text": "keep warm and now the building is going to be demolished we do not want this with st jws we need better stewardship", "start": 3274.799, "end": 3282.24}, {"text": "and there's Derick vehicles in the parking lot that the property owner has", "start": 3282.24, "end": 3287.4}, {"text": "not had removed yet even though they have been told several times so it's really getting to be a", "start": 3287.4, "end": 3294.359}, {"text": "problem but give them a little bit of credit they're keeping the litter down on the front sides keeping the grass and", "start": 3294.359, "end": 3301.359}, {"text": "problems under control and are trying to limit access to the", "start": 3301.359, "end": 3307.24}, {"text": "building thank you for those updates grem um next we have um", "start": 3308.559, "end": 3316.44}, {"text": "Andrew yes uh yeah so actually Allison uh has already answered part of my", "start": 3316.72, "end": 3322.599}, {"text": "question if there's a report coming back that's great the one piece I'd like to add is is it also possible to get an update on or just what's more", "start": 3322.599, "end": 3330.72}, {"text": "information I guess on the uh triv theater as well is that coming as well", "start": 3330.72, "end": 3336.039}, {"text": "or no because it would be great to like just not have to read it in the newspaper as far as what's speaking to", "start": 3336.039, "end": 3342.839}, {"text": "that when it comes to it's one of the properties I'm looking looking at so I have some questions about that okay and", "start": 3342.839, "end": 3347.88}, {"text": "then yeah and just I'm so disillusioned by how council's handled Heritage this", "start": 3347.88, "end": 3354.76}, {"text": "month i' like I just need to know more because this is beyond disappointing but that's it for", "start": 3354.76, "end": 3362.88}, {"text": "me thank you Andrew uh councelor cret she'll be let's go next if you if you'd like to provide your", "start": 3362.88, "end": 3368.88}, {"text": "updates lovely yeah I think it's important to just unpack what was just said I mean this is not a month-to-month", "start": 3368.88, "end": 3375.799}, {"text": "activity Heritage buildings and their deterioration happen over the course of decades and so how any successive", "start": 3375.799, "end": 3381.119}, {"text": "Council deals with that is important but this isn't happening overnight on any circumstance so I have questions about", "start": 3381.119, "end": 3388.28}, {"text": "the can knitting Mills firstly so that's number nine on the list now that this has received Heritage designation", "start": 3388.28, "end": 3395.039}, {"text": "there's something I've learned about the property that was interesting so apparently the ownership of the property", "start": 3395.039, "end": 3400.599}, {"text": "if you look at on the street from the sidewalk we own that right away actually to the edge of the building I believe", "start": 3400.599, "end": 3406.28}, {"text": "the city owns that that bit that's not always common where we own every bit of", "start": 3406.28, "end": 3412.079}, {"text": "the setback area right to the building sometimes we do sometimes there's an easement or some other kind of", "start": 3412.079, "end": 3417.44}, {"text": "encroachment that allows the property owner to own that section between the sidewalk and the building so what um", "start": 3417.44, "end": 3423.76}, {"text": "sort of obligations do we have for what happens with that sidewalk area there next to a Heritage building anything I'm", "start": 3423.76, "end": 3428.88}, {"text": "just curious because I'm I'm investigating what's to be done with maintaining the area because the area is not maintained um and is creating all", "start": 3428.88, "end": 3435.72}, {"text": "kinds of Hazards especially the portion on Mary Street and so trying to figure", "start": 3435.72, "end": 3441.52}, {"text": "out if there's something from a Heritage perspective that can be done is the fact that it's now Des", "start": 3441.52, "end": 3447}, {"text": "to secure the area or not uh through the chair of the", "start": 3447, "end": 3453.599}, {"text": "counselor I think we need some more information we haven't been involved to date in terms of issues with I'm", "start": 3453.599, "end": 3459.96}, {"text": "assuming is it related to encampment and other situations on the sidewalk yeah some of it's like that some of it's just", "start": 3459.96, "end": 3465.52}, {"text": "stuff that's left behind there's also this a bunch of weird um land formations I'll call them what do I know but like", "start": 3465.52, "end": 3471.359}, {"text": "you know stairs that used to be there little ramps used to be there for things that don't exist any any more um we fixed", "start": 3471.359, "end": 3477.839}, {"text": "some of the curb Cuts I believe in the area this year which is good to prevent some of that weird uh old driveway", "start": 3477.839, "end": 3483.72}, {"text": "accesses that no longer needed to be but like the whole area is just in a state of absolute disrepair and there are some other issues about um trying to secure", "start": 3483.72, "end": 3490.64}, {"text": "the building from being damaged in some meaningful way um if you have people who are living adjacent to the building", "start": 3490.64, "end": 3495.76}, {"text": "right like what are we doing to try and try and address this issue with the sidewalk that's one of the things I think is a competing issue for everybody", "start": 3495.76, "end": 3502.48}, {"text": "is sidewalks and pedestrians ability to use sidewalks and they're being tents on sidewalks and then how do we address", "start": 3502.48, "end": 3509.079}, {"text": "that issue so or PE folks that are on sidewalks and kind of limiting people's ability to get around from an", "start": 3509.079, "end": 3514.52}, {"text": "accessibility perspective so it's like a weird competing problem where we have um different kinds of needs and so just", "start": 3514.52, "end": 3519.92}, {"text": "trying to manage this problem as best we can as the city I think in in War I and it's pretty prevalent uh in a couple of", "start": 3519.92, "end": 3526.2}, {"text": "areas this is one of those areas where we're trying to manage a problem where there's these competing issues so just", "start": 3526.2, "end": 3531.96}, {"text": "trying to figure out if you know there's anything from a Heritage perspective that we can do in terms of trying to protect the", "start": 3531.96, "end": 3537.52}, {"text": "property uh yeah through the chair of the councelor just in terms of its current status so as is noted on the", "start": 3537.52, "end": 3543}, {"text": "agenda today we've issued the notice of attention to designate um", "start": 3543, "end": 3548.079}, {"text": "technically it is protected as though it's designated under this notice so if changes are proposed or work is required", "start": 3548.079, "end": 3554.24}, {"text": "to any of the Heritage attributes then they would be required to get a Heritage permit um in terms of though the design", "start": 3554.24, "end": 3560.4}, {"text": "specific Provisions for designated properties under the property Center bylaw we would need to wait until the", "start": 3560.4, "end": 3566.44}, {"text": "bylaw is passed that's my understanding of the interpretation to then potentially use those additional measures in terms of Maintenance of", "start": 3566.44, "end": 3573.4}, {"text": "Heritage attributes and features if there is concern about deterioration um so in the meantime yes", "start": 3573.4, "end": 3580.079}, {"text": "if there was any if there were any orders that were issued I'm not aware of any related to the structure currently", "start": 3580.079, "end": 3585.44}, {"text": "or any um documentation in terms of concerns about safety of the structure but if that were to take place and any", "start": 3585.44, "end": 3592.68}, {"text": "work needed to be done related to those features then they would need to go through the her Department process let's", "start": 3592.68, "end": 3597.72}, {"text": "let's talk about that then when the bylaw passes and maybe talk about it next month or talk about it offline I do think it's worth the Heritage folks", "start": 3597.72, "end": 3603.119}, {"text": "being involved in the conversations we are already having with people about this um just simply because U the Good", "start": 3603.119, "end": 3608.599}, {"text": "Shepherd is in a weird situation where it owns serpent property across the road and then we own this weird parcel of", "start": 3608.599, "end": 3613.92}, {"text": "property and then uh Harry sson owns this piece of property like the ownership of the property is just causing it making it very difficult for", "start": 3613.92, "end": 3619.64}, {"text": "us to try and find remedies to make sure that the canting Mills are kind of in a safe State and the are is in a safe State um neighbors are are obviously", "start": 3619.64, "end": 3627.28}, {"text": "concerned about all kinds of things including uh fires to the building other kinds of things so just trying to make sure that we have a line of sight to how", "start": 3627.28, "end": 3633.359}, {"text": "to proceed with this it makes sense and if there's a role for Heritage staff to have in trying to make that work great", "start": 3633.359, "end": 3639.24}, {"text": "that was really my flag here today so hopefully we can follow with that later um next item on the list is number 16 um", "start": 3639.24, "end": 3646.2}, {"text": "the tiv and so I just wanted to ask a couple of questions about that I know that the minutes from the Heritage", "start": 3646.2, "end": 3652.76}, {"text": "permit review subcommittee will be coming and then there'll be a report about that'll be coming here as well and", "start": 3652.76, "end": 3658}, {"text": "so you know I'm not going to sit and try and presuppose what's going to happen with that report until it's written but I just wanted to get some clarity for us", "start": 3658, "end": 3664.079}, {"text": "here we talked about this in advance so it's not like it's a huge surprise to what I'm going to say but when I went to", "start": 3664.079, "end": 3669.2}, {"text": "tour the site so just for transparency I asked staff and said hey", "start": 3669.2, "end": 3675.16}, {"text": "you know this is one of the buildings that's on the list I look at it's one of the buildings you can't really examine", "start": 3675.16, "end": 3680.96}, {"text": "from the exterior a lot you can kind of walk by and see if there's something happening but this wasn't one of those and in light of the fact that there's a", "start": 3680.96, "end": 3687.24}, {"text": "new owner and so on and knowing that there's going to be um different kinds of permits applied for I asked to go on", "start": 3687.24, "end": 3692.44}, {"text": "tour and staff reached out to the owner and they were able to give myself and some folks on my team and City staff", "start": 3692.44, "end": 3698.88}, {"text": "came and there was there was a lot of people actually on this tour and it was extremely insightful in terms of talking", "start": 3698.88, "end": 3704.359}, {"text": "to the lead architect there so the person who wrote the report that was there for the her Heritage permits", "start": 3704.359, "end": 3709.72}, {"text": "review subcommittee Paul supuni I believe is his name um he's a lead architect at VG plus and he was on site", "start": 3709.72, "end": 3716.48}, {"text": "that day and he's had about 35 plus years experience doing this kind of work and does a lot of restoration work so", "start": 3716.48, "end": 3721.76}, {"text": "his goal is to get into a project and try and save it or restore it and so he was the person that was speaking to us", "start": 3721.76, "end": 3726.799}, {"text": "about the sort of site condition so I'll tell you a couple things he said from a high level and I want to ask you who will be attending our meeting when we", "start": 3726.799, "end": 3731.96}, {"text": "have this discussion here from from the development group and from the architecture group because I think it's", "start": 3731.96, "end": 3737.079}, {"text": "important to have experts present to talk about the condition of the building but a couple things that really he pointed out were structural issues with", "start": 3737.079, "end": 3742.799}, {"text": "the building uh specifically things related to something called which I learned about for the first time uh called speed tile which is a kind of", "start": 3742.799, "end": 3749.52}, {"text": "thing that was used a long time ago made of a terracotta uh substance that if", "start": 3749.52, "end": 3754.559}, {"text": "used in any kind of structural way um and exposed to water doesn't last for more than if you know it doesn't last", "start": 3754.559, "end": 3760.279}, {"text": "and it gets deteriorates and that basically what he said was that taking things down to the brick then", "start": 3760.279, "end": 3765.599}, {"text": "remediating the brick in some way from the contaminants the Brick's been exposed to um is kind of the only way to", "start": 3765.599, "end": 3771.079}, {"text": "make sure that the building is actually going to be safe to be used going forward and so what I'm asking for and I'll say this now is just that we have", "start": 3771.079, "end": 3777.48}, {"text": "some more information about the kinds of costs we could expect to restore a theater like that and if it's basically", "start": 3777.48, "end": 3782.559}, {"text": "saying we have to take everything out of the theater down to the brick right every single piece of plaster everything out of this place um what's the", "start": 3782.559, "end": 3788.799}, {"text": "feasibility for doing something like that the answer is I'm sure very very high so then my question naturally will", "start": 3788.799, "end": 3794}, {"text": "be what is the community benefit we're going to get instead of if we're not able for some reason to save the theater", "start": 3794, "end": 3799.64}, {"text": "what will we the community be getting as a benefit back from that I mean the the developer said at that meeting really", "start": 3799.64, "end": 3805}, {"text": "clearly that they walked into this knowing they'd probably have to restore the theater well I'm sure they had an idea in mind of how much that was going", "start": 3805, "end": 3810.68}, {"text": "to cost um those funds can be reallocated now to something else uh if they can't be used to save the theater", "start": 3810.68, "end": 3816.52}, {"text": "so what would that look like what kind of a cultural asset will we get back in our neighborhood if we're going to be", "start": 3816.52, "end": 3821.96}, {"text": "losing this cultural asset so I'm not here to determine the outcome of that I'm just saying here are the kinds of questions I want to ask when the people come forward and so I'm hoping they'll", "start": 3821.96, "end": 3829.119}, {"text": "all be present at the meeting could you confirm that those people will be present at the meeting so we can ask them these", "start": 3829.119, "end": 3834.72}, {"text": "questions through the chair to the counselor yes so in terms of the application uh we did receive a her", "start": 3834.72, "end": 3840.48}, {"text": "perit application in October for the tiv property proposing demolition the first part in that process of uh reviewing an", "start": 3840.48, "end": 3847.68}, {"text": "application to demolish a designated parcel is to first go to the per review subcommittee for advice so that's what", "start": 3847.68, "end": 3853.599}, {"text": "happened on November 12th um the next step is that staff will prepare a report we're targeting the December 13th", "start": 3853.599, "end": 3859.079}, {"text": "meeting of this committee for review of that application with a staff recommendation of how to move forward", "start": 3859.079, "end": 3865.279}, {"text": "and follow following that it will go to planning committee and then Council for a final decision um in terms of the", "start": 3865.279, "end": 3871.72}, {"text": "subcommittee's review they had recommended refusal so that's advice that we'll consider and include in our staff report and had also raised a", "start": 3871.72, "end": 3877.72}, {"text": "number of questions and concerns that the counselor has outlined here today uh those have been relayed to the", "start": 3877.72, "end": 3883.319}, {"text": "applicants and we are expecting to get some additional information to support the existing application that we will", "start": 3883.319, "end": 3889}, {"text": "also include in our staff report we're hoping to receive that uh in time to include in our report and address and", "start": 3889, "end": 3894.799}, {"text": "make sure that some of these outstanding questions um are spoken to and that there's a a comprehensive amount of", "start": 3894.799, "end": 3902.2}, {"text": "information when it's deliberated on at this committee oh sorry and and to the", "start": 3902.2, "end": 3908.52}, {"text": "councilor's other question in terms of um attendance yes we've also relayed so at the subcommittee meeting there was", "start": 3908.52, "end": 3914.119}, {"text": "representation from uh plus Fiji who are the her Consultants who prepared the culture her impact assessment that was", "start": 3914.119, "end": 3919.88}, {"text": "submitted uh however the uh supporting materials attached to that impact assessment including um the structural", "start": 3919.88, "end": 3926.2}, {"text": "analysis there weren't representatives to speak to that report so we have indicated that we do expect those folks", "start": 3926.2, "end": 3931.799}, {"text": "to be in attendance at Heritage committee uh as well as uh looking to actually have Paul as you mentioned who", "start": 3931.799, "end": 3937.319}, {"text": "was on that site visit to also be in attendance at the her committee meeting thanks yeah like I just want to briefly", "start": 3937.319, "end": 3942.68}, {"text": "say I'm very concerned about the fact that we would demolish this building I think everybody loves it very much uh having been in the building it's it's", "start": 3942.68, "end": 3949.279}, {"text": "not in good repair in any way shape or form there's no bit of the original features there that hasn't been touched", "start": 3949.279, "end": 3955.079}, {"text": "by some water some damage some other problem and so I'm looking forward to the discussion and having someone here", "start": 3955.079, "end": 3961.039}, {"text": "who can answer our questions thoroughly so we can understand exactly what we're doing before we do it um moving on to 17", "start": 3961.039, "end": 3966.96}, {"text": "the James Street Baptist Church just I walked by there a lot I live just off James Street so um there's some kind of", "start": 3966.96, "end": 3974.2}, {"text": "weird sheet or something that was hanging on there this I think it was this week um there's some kind of weird", "start": 3974.2, "end": 3979.52}, {"text": "I don't know I'm not a a Fabrics expert everybody okay I'm just observing a weird", "start": 3979.52, "end": 3985.88}, {"text": "fabric hanging off one of the windows like somebody I think asked on the internet as well like how did this fabric get up there so I just would ask", "start": 3985.88, "end": 3993.319}, {"text": "someone to have a gander uh and see what is this Fabric and why is it there could", "start": 3993.319, "end": 3999.279}, {"text": "just be a piece of canvas protecting some glass it slipped itne who knows but like someone should have a gander of", "start": 3999.279, "end": 4004.48}, {"text": "that so the shair we'll we'll pass that along to our colleagues in M the law enforcement who are still actively", "start": 4004.48, "end": 4009.799}, {"text": "monitoring the property because it is a vacant property as well yeah what I will say is we did an endangered heritage", "start": 4009.799, "end": 4015.76}, {"text": "landmarks tour I won't get into that too much it was a maob event and a bit a bit", "start": 4015.76, "end": 4021.72}, {"text": "depressing and we actually ended at the gore buildings just the day before they fell um but during that when we arrived", "start": 4021.72, "end": 4029.76}, {"text": "at the James Street Baptist Church was another site on our our tour there were tons of people there doing work so I'm", "start": 4029.76, "end": 4037.079}, {"text": "grateful that it seems like everyone is taking that seriously and is trying to maintain that property and is like", "start": 4037.079, "end": 4043.039}, {"text": "actively ensuring that we're keeping things up as well as we can and doing things like installing internal systems", "start": 4043.039, "end": 4049.839}, {"text": "inside the remaining buildings so we can actually get up and access things so before that wasn't necessarily the case where it was easy to do so and now it's", "start": 4049.839, "end": 4055.64}, {"text": "a lot easier for building inspectors Municipal law enforcement to actually access the site and like go up and inspect things so just grateful that", "start": 4055.64, "end": 4061.76}, {"text": "that's happening um and then I'll be I got one more thing to talk about numbers 18 and", "start": 4061.76, "end": 4068}, {"text": "19 on this list are 18 to 28 King Street East in Gore Park and so I think we'll", "start": 4068, "end": 4074.799}, {"text": "leave them on list simply because I know in the past we have done so for Heritage features so the features and the facades", "start": 4074.799, "end": 4080.4}, {"text": "that were retained what's happening with those so we can track them I did have a couple questions nothing uh too", "start": 4080.4, "end": 4087.4}, {"text": "explorative I think we had a conversation at a committee this week and we're going to continue to have conversations about this the mayor put a", "start": 4087.4, "end": 4093.599}, {"text": "motion forward I'm not here to to rehash all that but a couple of specific questions related to how we do and deal", "start": 4093.599, "end": 4099.48}, {"text": "with engineers and structural analyses I think are important for us to discuss here so I have a better understanding", "start": 4099.48, "end": 4106}, {"text": "of what we do and why we do it so it's clear and obvious that anyone", "start": 4106, "end": 4113.4}, {"text": "who purchases Heritage Property um understands their purchasing a Heritage Property when they do it there's also a", "start": 4113.4, "end": 4120.238}, {"text": "discussion about their future plans for that property and some of those are sometimes congruent with Heritage and", "start": 4120.239, "end": 4126.48}, {"text": "sometimes they're not congruent with the Heritage buildings that are there regardless maximizing a site footprint", "start": 4126.48, "end": 4133.64}, {"text": "is advantageous financially for people who want to build on it that's just like Common Sense the more you can build in", "start": 4133.64, "end": 4139.12}, {"text": "square feet on a piece of land or property without being encumbered by an existing Heritage building the more", "start": 4139.12, "end": 4144.838}, {"text": "money you're going to make so there's always going to be a financial incent incentive for somebody to build on a", "start": 4144.839, "end": 4151}, {"text": "site now there's some people who who will say you know I know I have that Financial incentive I'm going to put that over here because I care more about", "start": 4151, "end": 4156.44}, {"text": "preserving this Heritage thing than I do the financial incentive it still exists all the time and so uh depending on the", "start": 4156.44, "end": 4163.318}, {"text": "the developer the owner the financial incentive will play a high role a low role a medium role and so my question", "start": 4163.319, "end": 4169.278}, {"text": "really is when we're relying on Experts who are being paid for by someone who", "start": 4169.279, "end": 4176.798}, {"text": "has a financial incentive um how are we really mitigating that beyond what I know we", "start": 4176.799, "end": 4183}, {"text": "currently do which I'll summarize as building inspectors and other individuals may go up in the site to have a gander and visually inspect as as", "start": 4183, "end": 4189.92}, {"text": "they can as safely as they can but we're relying on kind of the way I look at it like", "start": 4189.92, "end": 4196.32}, {"text": "an engineer is being hired over here that person is a professional engineer they've given us a report in an evaluation and that may involve them", "start": 4196.32, "end": 4202.239}, {"text": "going in that may involved in doing a site inspection all kinds of things structural analysis maybe they can't going because it's unsafe whatever then", "start": 4202.239, "end": 4208.8}, {"text": "we're relying on that third party report the reason I say this and why I bring all this up before I get to the long witness question of all time is that we", "start": 4208.8, "end": 4217.88}, {"text": "had a report that was reasonably recent that said the buildings were not deemed to be unsafe and there was no risk they", "start": 4217.88, "end": 4224.4}, {"text": "were going to collapse so engineer X says that hired by the developer engineer X also says we should do this", "start": 4224.4, "end": 4231.199}, {"text": "other thing so at some point in all this all the landscape here something happened that maybe wasn't accurate it", "start": 4231.199, "end": 4237.199}, {"text": "wasn't timely whatever it might be but someone's advice is not great what are we doing as a city to ensure that we're", "start": 4237.199, "end": 4243.6}, {"text": "getting excellent advice and then when we see an aberration like that that we're that intervening with our own", "start": 4243.6, "end": 4249.159}, {"text": "Engineers with our own Third Party Experts with whoever we may may need to be able to corroborate that information", "start": 4249.159, "end": 4254.8}, {"text": "I hope that made sense true the chair I I think we do", "start": 4254.8, "end": 4262.199}, {"text": "have uh Bob medal on the call I don't know Bob if you're able to speak to in terms of expectations of Professional", "start": 4262.199, "end": 4268.44}, {"text": "Engineers to address some of the counselor's questions yeah through the chair I will", "start": 4268.44, "end": 4275.88}, {"text": "try to attempt to answer the questions as best I can um Professional Engineers are", "start": 4275.88, "end": 4282.8}, {"text": "Professional Engineers for a reason they've gone through a lot of school a lot of education and we we rely heavily", "start": 4282.8, "end": 4288.04}, {"text": "on their opinions throughout uh the processes of their work so when we get a", "start": 4288.04, "end": 4293.679}, {"text": "report from a professional engineer they're held to some pretty significant", "start": 4293.679, "end": 4299.32}, {"text": "ethics code of conduct that we need to listen to um should", "start": 4299.32, "end": 4305}, {"text": "we get into a process where we start to doubt Professional Engineers we run into", "start": 4305, "end": 4310.88}, {"text": "the opposite risk of you know allowing a building to stay standing and then it falls down so we have the opposite kind", "start": 4310.88, "end": 4317.44}, {"text": "of effect here and um our role is not", "start": 4317.44, "end": 4322.52}, {"text": "really to question them unless there have been problems with any specific engineer in the past if we come across", "start": 4322.52, "end": 4330.4}, {"text": "Engineers who we don't believe are being forthcoming with information or maybe not um you know obliging to their", "start": 4330.4, "end": 4337.12}, {"text": "ethical conduct and standards there's a process for that where we would report somebody to the peo the Professional", "start": 4337.12, "end": 4344.239}, {"text": "Engineers of Ontario um and they would conduct their own investigation as to whether or not um", "start": 4344.239, "end": 4350.239}, {"text": "things are being done appropriately from their end so I think from the city's perspective uh we we have processes in", "start": 4350.239, "end": 4357.639}, {"text": "place to proceed as we do so if we it's brought to our attention that a building", "start": 4357.639, "end": 4362.679}, {"text": "is unsafe uh at imminent risk of collapse or failure as so says you know a particular", "start": 4362.679, "end": 4370.44}, {"text": "engineer we have to heed that advice typically these things are are happening", "start": 4370.44, "end": 4376.239}, {"text": "in the moment and we don't have a lot of time to react or time to consult with", "start": 4376.239, "end": 4382.199}, {"text": "other rostered Engineers that we may or may not have on on standby um so it's", "start": 4382.199, "end": 4387.4}, {"text": "really uh it unfortunately if you put five engineers in one room you're", "start": 4387.4, "end": 4393.12}, {"text": "probably going to get five different answers just like a member of council just like a building inspector just like", "start": 4393.12, "end": 4398.92}, {"text": "a planner I think that it's always going to be subject to a little bit of interpretation but sorry I hope I", "start": 4398.92, "end": 4404.239}, {"text": "answered the question I think in short if we get an engineer report we really have to heed that advice of that", "start": 4404.239, "end": 4410.199}, {"text": "particular engineer for the particular", "start": 4410.199, "end": 4414.04}, {"text": "project and through the chair to the counselor uh in terms of speaking more", "start": 4416.159, "end": 4421.199}, {"text": "generally when we're dealing with Heritage buildings designated Heritage buildings and our city process and", "start": 4421.199, "end": 4427.52}, {"text": "protocol for when we have emergencies with our build Heritage um when there is", "start": 4427.52, "end": 4433.159}, {"text": "an option to stabilize and re ESS we take those actions and make sure that we bring in uh in the case of potential", "start": 4433.159, "end": 4440.28}, {"text": "concern around um so not just necessarily situations of imminent collapse but where uh we might have a", "start": 4440.28, "end": 4446.96}, {"text": "professional recommendation from an engineer that a building should be demolished but not that it's under immediate concern of imminent collapse", "start": 4446.96, "end": 4454.44}, {"text": "to bring in someone who has qualified Heritage experience as well to potentially peer review that to ensure", "start": 4454.44, "end": 4461.28}, {"text": "that we're doing our due diligence to make sure that there isn't an option to stabilize and potentially um uh Salvage", "start": 4461.28, "end": 4469.6}, {"text": "and or actually retain and restore the building before mov to a situation of", "start": 4469.6, "end": 4475.4}, {"text": "issuing an order generally that's the process that we would follow and we have had success in certain situations in the", "start": 4475.4, "end": 4481.28}, {"text": "past using that protocol um but I think the difference is the initial", "start": 4481.28, "end": 4486.96}, {"text": "interpretation and um professional opinion of the engineer on record on the", "start": 4486.96, "end": 4493.239}, {"text": "file and what the certain level of safety and concern is in that immediate", "start": 4493.239, "end": 4499.679}, {"text": "situation so that's all helpful actually in terms of setting the contextual stage", "start": 4499.8, "end": 4505.719}, {"text": "for you know what we're going to be doing going forward what you're all essentially saying in a way especially", "start": 4505.719, "end": 4511.12}, {"text": "what Bob's comments were and I really would hope we'd never compare engineers and counselors not withstanding the fact that there's an engineer on Counsel but", "start": 4511.12, "end": 4517.679}, {"text": "I would really hope that kind of subjectivity isn't what we were talking about here but even if it's close or approximate to that I think everybody", "start": 4517.679, "end": 4524}, {"text": "can understand why the public might have a feeling about that because we're talking about a certain basis of qualified opinion and so if you're", "start": 4524, "end": 4529.88}, {"text": "suggesting that different Engineers may be different basis of qualifi qualified opinion um that means that they often", "start": 4529.88, "end": 4535.719}, {"text": "come with different biases that's just how everything is every pit of scientific literature comes with a bias we all understand that now in", "start": 4535.719, "end": 4541.4}, {"text": "20124 that I think is the issue with public trust here if we don't have our own Engineers right who have a bias", "start": 4541.4, "end": 4547.639}, {"text": "toward protecting Heritage assets that are that are under designation right who", "start": 4547.639, "end": 4552.84}, {"text": "have that incentive from being part of the municip bureaucracy who were doing this instead of being um collectively", "start": 4552.84, "end": 4559.239}, {"text": "with someone who has a bias around a financial incentive I just want to put it there like I think you can understand why the public as looking for as much", "start": 4559.239, "end": 4565.6}, {"text": "accountability trust and transparency as possible don't think this is a great system and so I'm just saying out loud I", "start": 4565.6, "end": 4572.04}, {"text": "think something that I hope ends up being part of the review from the mayor's request which is we need to hire our own people to do this work so that", "start": 4572.04, "end": 4578.239}, {"text": "we can build trust with the community around around this kind of stuff it's not to suggest any professional engineer", "start": 4578.239, "end": 4583.56}, {"text": "is doing something unethical it's not about that but cities hold themselves to a higher standard there's a reason why", "start": 4583.56, "end": 4589.6}, {"text": "things take longer in Municipal bureaucracies it's a great groan from the public as we slowly move through", "start": 4589.6, "end": 4594.88}, {"text": "certain things but half the reason we do that is to ensure that we're doing it properly accountably with public dollars", "start": 4594.88, "end": 4600.96}, {"text": "in a respectful way and making sure it maintains Public Safety because we can't just do something without you know without shuring that we're uh keeping", "start": 4600.96, "end": 4607.44}, {"text": "the public safe and not risking their liability the same goes to Heritage buildings right and so that standard of", "start": 4607.44, "end": 4612.679}, {"text": "professionalism is expected from bureaucracy it's not necessarily the same standard that's expected from individuals in the", "start": 4612.679, "end": 4619.6}, {"text": "in the ownership and development and financial industry they don't have the same obligations um again not withstanding the fact that Engineers", "start": 4619.6, "end": 4625.52}, {"text": "have obligations and ultimately at the end of the day filing a complaint against an engineer after the fact does", "start": 4625.52, "end": 4630.679}, {"text": "nothing for anybody so it just it just it's a punitive measure it's not a recovery measure so I'm just saying that", "start": 4630.679, "end": 4636.48}, {"text": "I think we ought to think this through differently going forward that's my comment not you know that we ought to think this through differently to find a", "start": 4636.48, "end": 4642.96}, {"text": "way to build more trust with the public to ensure that when we're doing these kinds of things and we have these really important Heritage landmarks that", "start": 4642.96, "end": 4648.639}, {"text": "there's absolutely no question that the city is doing this from a perspective based in um what municipalities stand", "start": 4648.639, "end": 4654.92}, {"text": "for thanks thank you counselor uh Graham go", "start": 4654.92, "end": 4661.719}, {"text": "ahead and further the counselor's uh comments and Mr nut's comments if you", "start": 4661.719, "end": 4667.12}, {"text": "have five engineers in a room you'll have seven different opinions when you're finished I've worked with engineers and", "start": 4667.12, "end": 4675.639}, {"text": "it is opinions based upon their knowledge experience and training it's", "start": 4675.639, "end": 4680.679}, {"text": "not fact what they've say it's basically they're writing an opinion and sometimes", "start": 4680.679, "end": 4686.36}, {"text": "something could go either way and as the public do we trust what the engineer is", "start": 4686.36, "end": 4691.639}, {"text": "doing it for the developers benefit or for the common goods benefit and that's", "start": 4691.639, "end": 4697.719}, {"text": "where it's nice to have some of the stuff reviewed by people that are in our", "start": 4697.719, "end": 4703.32}, {"text": "pay paycheck not theirs you know on the payroll sorry on our on the city's", "start": 4703.32, "end": 4709.96}, {"text": "payroll as opposed to the other person's payroll because that way the public can at least know that it's been peer", "start": 4709.96, "end": 4716.199}, {"text": "reviewed and there's a little bit more trust in the", "start": 4716.199, "end": 4720.08}, {"text": "documentation any other sorry sorry through the chair again just as a followup just and for some clarification", "start": 4722.84, "end": 4729.04}, {"text": "on that that last remark and is certainly appreciated it's not that they", "start": 4729.04, "end": 4735}, {"text": "accepted the you know these Engineers are accepted without any review so just to put that and make it very clear it is", "start": 4735, "end": 4742.44}, {"text": "reviewed by our building inspection team we do have building Engineers on staff", "start": 4742.44, "end": 4747.719}, {"text": "internally to the building division that do all of the uh building plan review", "start": 4747.719, "end": 4754.84}, {"text": "for larger buildings we do have building Engineers on staff these reports are reviewed thoroughly when they're", "start": 4754.84, "end": 4760.239}, {"text": "submitted um but that's not to say that unless there's something significantly", "start": 4760.239, "end": 4766.639}, {"text": "obvious or a glaring defect in the report that that we're going to turn it down or refuse it so just I just wanted", "start": 4766.639, "end": 4772.88}, {"text": "to make that clear that they don't go without review thank you Bob um and thank you", "start": 4772.88, "end": 4780.36}, {"text": "for providing those those comments to our questions uh Bob just for Clerk's sake can you just let us know what your", "start": 4780.36, "end": 4785.96}, {"text": "official position is at the the city yes I'm so sorry uh manager of building", "start": 4785.96, "end": 4792.28}, {"text": "inspections at The Building Division thank you", "start": 4792.28, "end": 4797.119}, {"text": "Bob do we have any other property updates um I'd just like to bring forward um for consideration to add to", "start": 4797.48, "end": 4804.88}, {"text": "our list is 33 Bowen um in Hamilton uh it's known as the the Bradley stable or", "start": 4804.88, "end": 4810.679}, {"text": "Courthouse stable um in recent months there's been a lot of um um some illegal activities violence and things that have", "start": 4810.679, "end": 4816.48}, {"text": "been happening around that to the extent that the um the tenant in the building is no longer in that property and the", "start": 4816.48, "end": 4822.199}, {"text": "property has been boarded up and is now on the market for sale for 3 about $3.5 million um so the the", "start": 4822.199, "end": 4828.76}, {"text": "outcome of that property is is unknown at this time um and and sits vacant so there is a concern for for that um it's", "start": 4828.76, "end": 4836.04}, {"text": "an early 1900 uh building formal stables and and um so that would be a property", "start": 4836.04, "end": 4842.4}, {"text": "if if the committee would like to consider I would see either for red or for yellow whichever the the committee so", "start": 4842.4, "end": 4848.84}, {"text": "chooses I think I support it going onto the yellow I don't think it's in in imminent danger yet even though it is an", "start": 4851.84, "end": 4857.719}, {"text": "old building has been vacant for periods before but it be worthwhile to keep an", "start": 4857.719, "end": 4863.28}, {"text": "eye on it I don't know if the counselor like add to his W two election of places", "start": 4863.28, "end": 4869.92}, {"text": "to keep an eye on or not sure thing happy", "start": 4869.92, "end": 4875.719}, {"text": "to go ahead Alisa and through the chair uh just noting that the property is already listed on the municipal Heritage", "start": 4875.719, "end": 4882.12}, {"text": "register it was added proactively as a part of the Town inventory and with the", "start": 4882.12, "end": 4887.4}, {"text": "um recent articles about the property um as well as there's a formal consultation for redevelopment of the adjacent lands", "start": 4887.4, "end": 4894.159}, {"text": "staff have been proactively undertaking an updated review of the property and do anticipate bringing forward potential", "start": 4894.159, "end": 4899.96}, {"text": "recommendations in the New Year sounds good um so if we could have a mover and a seconder to put that", "start": 4899.96, "end": 4905.32}, {"text": "property on the list uh under okay moved by Graham seconded by councelor cret just to confirm which", "start": 4905.32, "end": 4912.6}, {"text": "under yellow yellow yellow okay um and as we move to add that", "start": 4912.6, "end": 4919.04}, {"text": "property to the list do we have any opposed seeing none that item is carried", "start": 4919.04, "end": 4924.84}, {"text": "um and I can also provide an update on the beach Canal lighthous which is item", "start": 4924.84, "end": 4931.08}, {"text": "10 under red um so I reached out to the chair of the um Beach Canal Lighthouse", "start": 4931.08, "end": 4937.28}, {"text": "group um just to get an update it's been had been a little while since we had heard what was going on um and he he", "start": 4937.28, "end": 4942.52}, {"text": "actually he gave me quite a comprehensive break down of of what's been going on so I will give you the C's notes version um but so the beach Canal", "start": 4942.52, "end": 4949.44}, {"text": "Lighthouse group um has actually signed an agreement with the Hamilton Ashawa", "start": 4949.44, "end": 4954.6}, {"text": "Port Authority uh giving them full access to the cottage so that's an interim agreement that'll take that'll", "start": 4954.6, "end": 4959.84}, {"text": "stay in place until everything is complete on the property um the lighthouse itself has had extensive", "start": 4959.84, "end": 4965.6}, {"text": "repointing 100% repointing of the the lighthous um so that is in very good shape and and they're quite happy with", "start": 4965.6, "end": 4972.199}, {"text": "the work that was done there um the house move the location has been selected it's approximately 100 m south", "start": 4972.199, "end": 4979.92}, {"text": "from the current location and about 20 M further from the canal um the foundation has been poured the location has been", "start": 4979.92, "end": 4986.08}, {"text": "set but there's been some delay just because of the cost of the move so from Hop's um perspective it's just trying to", "start": 4986.08, "end": 4992.639}, {"text": "figure out how they can actually make that that move happen um The Cottage building itself the lighthouse group is", "start": 4992.639, "end": 4998.96}, {"text": "is in is basically undertaking um anything to make it weatherproof and to to work on the building envelope itself", "start": 4998.96, "end": 5005.32}, {"text": "so they're actually working with Goldsmith bgal Architects to go through uh scope of work and uh call for tender", "start": 5005.32, "end": 5012.159}, {"text": "to get that work done so that's looking at everything from repointing uh looking at new roof um looking at suit fascia", "start": 5012.159, "end": 5018.639}, {"text": "and making sure everything is protected and that the the cottage is in good place um they uh from the interior", "start": 5018.639, "end": 5025.4}, {"text": "perspective um they actually uh had to do um environmental assessment to see if there was hazardous materials and taking", "start": 5025.4, "end": 5032.199}, {"text": "care of some of that work um they did have have to remove the summer kitchen and uh um part of the front porch but it", "start": 5032.199, "end": 5039.8}, {"text": "was found that um they couldn't maintain those properties and still do the the work of making sure that hazardous", "start": 5039.8, "end": 5045.679}, {"text": "materials were free from that site but um basically what they're looking at is there's the potential for moving the", "start": 5045.679, "end": 5051.679}, {"text": "cottage so it's more in relation to the um the the actual Lighthouse um so that", "start": 5051.679, "end": 5057.719}, {"text": "it's more in context but that is nothing has been decided um they're looking at taking on a feasibility plan and", "start": 5057.719, "end": 5063.719}, {"text": "basically it'll be starting from scratch um looking at um in by 2025 looking at a", "start": 5063.719, "end": 5070.12}, {"text": "uh comprehensive plan as to that movement of the the lighthouse the uh Keeper's Cottage and what happens with", "start": 5070.12, "end": 5076.04}, {"text": "the the site and whatnot um so there's there's good things happening with that property everything is being done uh", "start": 5076.04, "end": 5081.56}, {"text": "with the parks candida standards and guidelines for conservation of Heritage places and under the designation with", "start": 5081.56, "end": 5086.719}, {"text": "the Heritage lighthouses act so um Ian was very excited to tell us all of that", "start": 5086.719, "end": 5093.04}, {"text": "that is from the perspective of the house um group um SOA is responsible for other portions of that project but at", "start": 5093.04, "end": 5098.56}, {"text": "least gives us a little bit an update as to what's going on there do we have any other property", "start": 5098.56, "end": 5105.28}, {"text": "updates that we need to have seeing none uh may I have a motion to receive those", "start": 5105.28, "end": 5110.6}, {"text": "updates I see Karen and Lynn and as we move to vote is there", "start": 5110.6, "end": 5115.84}, {"text": "anyone opposed to receiving see none that item is", "start": 5115.84, "end": 5121}, {"text": "carried um are there any updates from staff go ahead through the chair um I just", "start": 5121, "end": 5128.36}, {"text": "wanted to note to the committee that there was a new bill introduced um is it just this week feels", "start": 5128.36, "end": 5134.8}, {"text": "like it's been a lifetime uh Bill 227 uh cutting red tape building Ontario act", "start": 5134.8, "end": 5139.96}, {"text": "2024 staff will be um preparing an information report about the the scope", "start": 5139.96, "end": 5145.52}, {"text": "of the potential interor Heritage act changes resulting from this bill um but at a high level I understand it to be", "start": 5145.52, "end": 5151.639}, {"text": "generally related to How uh Heritage easements are administered and potentially release of easement", "start": 5151.639, "end": 5158.88}, {"text": "protections and permit requirements on parts of property that don't contain any", "start": 5158.88, "end": 5164}, {"text": "Heritage attributes um that's about as much as I can understand at this point and staff will uh provide an information", "start": 5164, "end": 5170}, {"text": "update when we can thank you Alysa any other any other", "start": 5170, "end": 5176.36}, {"text": "new business go ahead Karen thank you um this um I assume that", "start": 5176.36, "end": 5182.159}, {"text": "many of you have seen this article that was in the spect this morning an opinion piece written by Ned Nolan and it's um", "start": 5182.159, "end": 5189.28}, {"text": "very interesting this one is particular um speaking about the gore buildings but I think there's a few points in here", "start": 5189.28, "end": 5195.84}, {"text": "that I would like to read out loud just to share them with everyone I think they're very important with pertaining", "start": 5195.84, "end": 5201.44}, {"text": "to our built Heritage so the problem is that these buildings were not just Assets in some corporate", "start": 5201.44, "end": 5209.04}, {"text": "portfolio they were our shared assets places of historic and cultural significance", "start": 5209.04, "end": 5214.92}, {"text": "and recognized as such by legislation they were entrusted to their owners", "start": 5214.92, "end": 5220.08}, {"text": "through the Centuries by the skilled Crafts People and architects who founded this", "start": 5220.08, "end": 5225.8}, {"text": "city those privileged enough to own land and property like this cannot be said to", "start": 5225.8, "end": 5231.52}, {"text": "merely hold it for themselves property passes through our hands as it is passed", "start": 5231.52, "end": 5236.76}, {"text": "down to Future Generations when making decisions about the built form of our city we have to", "start": 5236.76, "end": 5244.36}, {"text": "ask are we being responsible stewards of the gifts which our ancestors left us", "start": 5244.36, "end": 5250.28}, {"text": "and which subsequent Generations cared for so that we might cherish them use", "start": 5250.28, "end": 5255.48}, {"text": "them and pass them on in in turn and I think it's beyond the gore buildings", "start": 5255.48, "end": 5262}, {"text": "it's all of our heritage buildings and I think we have to think about this because it's critical", "start": 5262, "end": 5267.56}, {"text": "right so from that I mean I remember when Robin mcke was on this committee", "start": 5267.56, "end": 5272.76}, {"text": "and he would say I am the steward of my house I'm P I'm taking care of this building which I live to pass it down to", "start": 5272.76, "end": 5278.96}, {"text": "Future Generations that's exactly I think it's such an important mindset that we have to realize it's bigger than all of us", "start": 5278.96, "end": 5285.8}, {"text": "they were here before us and you would want them to be here after us so um that being said I do have a", "start": 5285.8, "end": 5293.04}, {"text": "question for staff um Mr Nolan goes on to say that the Ontario Heritage act gives", "start": 5293.04, "end": 5298.92}, {"text": "municipalities the authority to go into decrepit Heritage structures hire", "start": 5298.92, "end": 5304.6}, {"text": "contractors to fix them and send the bill to the owners and I just wondered if if staff could comment on whether", "start": 5304.6, "end": 5310.96}, {"text": "that statement is accurate or if there more complexity to that and and how because if that is true then perhaps we", "start": 5310.96, "end": 5317.04}, {"text": "as a committee can use that as a potential recommendation in future for", "start": 5317.04, "end": 5322.199}, {"text": "other properties that are at risk thank you through the chair um so the Ontario", "start": 5322.199, "end": 5330.76}, {"text": "herited act does generally have Provisions section um 69 speaks to", "start": 5330.76, "end": 5336.239}, {"text": "potential offenses under the ontari Heritage act um and in situations where", "start": 5336.239, "end": 5341.48}, {"text": "property owners have found to have altered a property in contravention of the act the ability to um undertake work", "start": 5341.48, "end": 5348.8}, {"text": "to restore and then recover those costs um but there are also Provisions that speak to those not being applicable in", "start": 5348.8, "end": 5356.199}, {"text": "cases where the works carried out for reasons of Public Safety um and if", "start": 5356.199, "end": 5362.48}, {"text": "Council essentially finds a property to in an unsafe condition so thinking about this particular situation that does not", "start": 5362.48, "end": 5369.639}, {"text": "apply in this case but generally um it is something that when there are", "start": 5369.639, "end": 5376}, {"text": "actually charges or or determination of contention in the act that there isn't opportunity for that um I'm not aware of", "start": 5376, "end": 5383.48}, {"text": "a situation where we've ever implemented that within the scope of the city of Hamilton but I think in terms of what", "start": 5383.48, "end": 5389.04}, {"text": "was referenced in uh the mayor's motion and potential look at what could be done", "start": 5389.04, "end": 5394.8}, {"text": "moving forward uh it would we would want to obviously look at what provisions of the act under the ontari Heritage act", "start": 5394.8, "end": 5400.92}, {"text": "could be investigated for uh proactive monitoring and and um measures to", "start": 5400.92, "end": 5406.84}, {"text": "maintain our heritage buildings moving", "start": 5406.84, "end": 5410.28}, {"text": "forward thank you for that Karen for read um do we have any other new items", "start": 5412.76, "end": 5418.4}, {"text": "or added items seeing none may have a mover and a seconder to adjourn today's meeting", "start": 5418.4, "end": 5425.239}, {"text": "I see Graham and councelor CR and is there anyone opposed seeing none that item is carried", "start": 5425.239, "end": 5431.96}, {"text": "um thank you everyone and and just uh looking ahead to next month our next meeting is scheduled for December 13th", "start": 5431.96, "end": 5437.4}, {"text": "at noon thank youone and we'll see you next month", "start": 5437.4, "end": 5443.199}]