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"start": 1287.52, "end": 1290.52}, {"text": "e", "start": 1317.52, "end": 1320.52}, {"text": "e", "start": 1347.52, "end": 1350.52}, {"text": "e", "start": 1377.44, "end": 1380.44}, {"text": "e", "start": 1407.44, "end": 1410.44}, {"text": "e", "start": 1437.44, "end": 1440.44}, {"text": "e", "start": 1467.36, "end": 1470.36}, {"text": "e", "start": 1497.32, "end": 1500.32}, {"text": "e", "start": 1527.32, "end": 1530.32}, {"text": "e", "start": 1557.24, "end": 1560.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 1587.24, "end": 1590.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 1617.24, "end": 1620.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 1647.159, "end": 1650.159}, {"text": "e e", "start": 1677.12, "end": 1681.158}, {"text": "good morning welcome to the general issues committee budget meeting of November 28th 2024 I'm calling this", "start": 1718.24, "end": 1725.919}, {"text": "meeting to order it's good to see everyone um Quorum is present and joining me in council chambers this", "start": 1725.919, "end": 1732.2}, {"text": "morning councelor Tom Jackson councelor Tammy Wang councelor Mark tedison Mary Andrea Horvath councelor Dano councelor", "start": 1732.2, "end": 1740.08}, {"text": "cazar councelor crutch councelor Alex Wilson virtually I'm joined by we're", "start": 1740.08, "end": 1746.2}, {"text": "joined by councelor Matt Francis councelor Bey councelor Paul's councelor spatap for I know that councelor Nan is", "start": 1746.2, "end": 1754.32}, {"text": "on City business this morning she'll be joining us a little later okay um we're on to the approval", "start": 1754.32, "end": 1761.64}, {"text": "of the agenda uh ELC McCrae there any changes yes chair there's an added communication", "start": 1761.64, "end": 1768.2}, {"text": "item 4.1 budget process changes cc2 4003 and the report 5.1 2025 preliminary", "start": 1768.2, "end": 1776.24}, {"text": "water Wastewater and storm water rate supported budget FCS 24055 has been revised okay thank you I need a move in", "start": 1776.24, "end": 1783.44}, {"text": "a secondary to approve the agenda as amended to get it on councelor um cret", "start": 1783.44, "end": 1789.08}, {"text": "and councelor Kazar are there any any discussion on that modified", "start": 1789.08, "end": 1795.36}, {"text": "agenda seeing none if we can go to an EV vote councelor Jackson has his thumb", "start": 1795.36, "end": 1805.44}, {"text": "up and so it is councelor", "start": 1807.679, "end": 1811.72}, {"text": "Pauls the agenda is approved as amended 13 to zero thank you are there any Declarations of Interest this morning", "start": 1821.24, "end": 1829.32}, {"text": "seeing none oh councelor Wang do you have a declaration maybe not a declaration but", "start": 1829.32, "end": 1834.799}, {"text": "a question of Interest what kind of socks are you wearing today ah what kind of socks am I wearing today well I'm", "start": 1834.799, "end": 1841.6}, {"text": "glad you asked that question I'm wearing my Mr Rogers socks and uh in the spirit", "start": 1841.6, "end": 1848.039}, {"text": "of Mr Rogers um I know we're all going to be thoughtful about our neighborhoods", "start": 1848.039, "end": 1853.159}, {"text": "and the people who live in those neighborhoods and we're going to think about the children who are going to inherit those neighb neighborhoods uh in", "start": 1853.159, "end": 1859.159}, {"text": "the future so um thank you for asking there are no uh interests", "start": 1859.159, "end": 1868.2}, {"text": "declared um on the approval of the November 22nd minutes I need to move or", "start": 1868.639, "end": 1873.88}, {"text": "a seconder councelor wang and councelor Jackson please any discussion on those", "start": 1873.88, "end": 1880.08}, {"text": "minutes I see none", "start": 1880.08, "end": 1884.44}, {"text": "councelor Paul your thumbs", "start": 1894.6, "end": 1898.2}, {"text": "up councelor Pauls are you able to vote just voting on the minutes", "start": 1900.08, "end": 1905.48}, {"text": "councelor Paul yep thumb up thank", "start": 1905.48, "end": 1909.2}, {"text": "you thank you 13 to Z the minutes are now approved we're on to uh", "start": 1910.639, "end": 1916.96}, {"text": "communication I item which is 4.1 on your agenda um I'm move to secondary to", "start": 1916.96, "end": 1923.639}, {"text": "receive it councelor Dano and councelor Alex Wilson please", "start": 1923.639, "end": 1930.48}, {"text": "um let me catch up here let me uh just add a few comments if I if I could as", "start": 1931.159, "end": 1938}, {"text": "your chair um so this uh communication item if I", "start": 1938, "end": 1945.559}, {"text": "have it yes it is a a memo it's States out uh what we've already known about uh", "start": 1945.559, "end": 1952.84}, {"text": "regulation I think it's 53022 which sets out the strong mayor", "start": 1952.84, "end": 1958.639}, {"text": "powers and U how that applies to the budget the mayor has set her directive", "start": 1958.639, "end": 1964.519}, {"text": "and done her job staff have done their job and provided uh and responded but it", "start": 1964.519, "end": 1971.159}, {"text": "is my job and my responsibility as budget chair to have framed this in the", "start": 1971.159, "end": 1977.44}, {"text": "appropriate way so please accept my sincere apologies as your chair as it", "start": 1977.44, "end": 1982.639}, {"text": "was and is my responsibility to have provided this Frame um when we first met", "start": 1982.639, "end": 1988.36}, {"text": "which was last week so if you have any animus uh please direct it to me um and", "start": 1988.36, "end": 1995.36}, {"text": "if you need clarifications on the questions or the consequences um of what", "start": 1995.36, "end": 2000.519}, {"text": "we know in the framework that we know um I'll try and direct those questions the", "start": 2000.519, "end": 2005.799}, {"text": "best as possible so it has been duly moved and seconded are there any questions on that", "start": 2005.799, "end": 2012.919}, {"text": "item okay pardon me oh I didn't see you thank you councelor", "start": 2018.159, "end": 2025.398}, {"text": "Dano thank you uh chair uh chair Wilson um through you", "start": 2025.84, "end": 2033.6}, {"text": "to perhaps staff this this is a fairly significant change for the the role of", "start": 2033.6, "end": 2040.679}, {"text": "committee on the budget so I I just want to be clear for everyone what committee", "start": 2040.679, "end": 2047.279}, {"text": "and council's role is under the the current provincial legislation in terms", "start": 2047.279, "end": 2053.358}, {"text": "of approving or not the budgets my my understanding in this memo that council's role is basically to um", "start": 2053.359, "end": 2061.56}, {"text": "consider amendments to the budget but it's not it's no longer under the provincial regulation it's no longer", "start": 2061.56, "end": 2068.118}, {"text": "committee and council's role to approve the budget we're simply uh recommending or not", "start": 2068.119, "end": 2075.72}, {"text": "amendments thank you councelor Dano that is my understanding but uh I will look to uh solicor Shields I'm sure will be", "start": 2075.72, "end": 2082.839}, {"text": "with us shortly and in her absence GM zigar through the chair and and S", "start": 2082.839, "end": 2088.24}, {"text": "Shields is participating virtually so I can start and then I'll invite cicor Shields to clarify any points that I I", "start": 2088.24, "end": 2097.44}, {"text": "might miscommunicate or to add some additional Clarity the memo that's before you", "start": 2097.44, "end": 2104.48}, {"text": "really speaks to process and to be clear this does not impact the budget that has", "start": 2104.48, "end": 2110.64}, {"text": "been presented and was presented on November 22nd to committee the rate supported budget it really speaks to the", "start": 2110.64, "end": 2118.68}, {"text": "timelines uh as it relates to the budget process under the strong mayor powers", "start": 2118.68, "end": 2124.28}, {"text": "and more specifically the objective of having the", "start": 2124.28, "end": 2129.88}, {"text": "rate supported budget Water and Wastewater budget approved on December 11th of this year and the significance", "start": 2129.88, "end": 2137.76}, {"text": "of working towards that timeline is that as this impacts the rates for 2025", "start": 2137.76, "end": 2145.44}, {"text": "effective January 1st our billing agent Electra requires some time to prepare", "start": 2145.44, "end": 2152.2}, {"text": "for those Billings hence we typically seek council's approval of the budget", "start": 2152.2, "end": 2157.64}, {"text": "buget in mid December to provide elector the time to prepare all the information", "start": 2157.64, "end": 2163}, {"text": "for billing specific to the question regarding the report that's before", "start": 2163, "end": 2169.76}, {"text": "Council there are some amendments to the report that's before Council there are some amendments with respect to wording", "start": 2169.76, "end": 2176.56}, {"text": "in alignment with the legislation uh the the budget must be presented before", "start": 2176.56, "end": 2184.319}, {"text": "February 1st and this budget was presented on November 22nd so meeting", "start": 2184.319, "end": 2189.599}, {"text": "that requirement Council then has the committee and Council has the authority", "start": 2189.599, "end": 2196.72}, {"text": "to put forward any amendments to the budget and they have 30 days from the", "start": 2196.72, "end": 2202.96}, {"text": "presentation the first presentation of the budget now you'll make you'll see in", "start": 2202.96, "end": 2209.04}, {"text": "the memo that's before you that staff the end of of paragraph three of the", "start": 2209.04, "end": 2214.92}, {"text": "memo Council can approve a shorter amendment period if it chooses to do so", "start": 2214.92, "end": 2222.079}, {"text": "that will be critical as it relates to the December 11th period if you work through those timelines November", "start": 2222.079, "end": 2229.359}, {"text": "22nd um Council having the authority to make amendments up to 30 days from that", "start": 2229.359, "end": 2235.359}, {"text": "date and the balance of the process just that 1 30-day period will trigger us to", "start": 2235.359, "end": 2243.28}, {"text": "not meet that December 11th date so the sign significance of not meeting that", "start": 2243.28, "end": 2249}, {"text": "September or December 11th date the city will not be able to confirm with Electra", "start": 2249, "end": 2256.76}, {"text": "what the effective rates will be January 1st of 2025 we would", "start": 2256.76, "end": 2264.16}, {"text": "consequently have to work towards effective rates I'll assume February 1st", "start": 2264.16, "end": 2272}, {"text": "2025 the impact of just that one month deferral is about $2.8 million", "start": 2272, "end": 2278.4}, {"text": "in foregone revenues for our water and wastewater and storm program in", "start": 2278.4, "end": 2284.72}, {"text": "2025 so again the the memo is set out to", "start": 2284.72, "end": 2291}, {"text": "inform committee with respect to the timelines under the legislation we are", "start": 2291, "end": 2297.04}, {"text": "highlighting the continued objective of approval on December 11th and sorry", "start": 2297.04, "end": 2304.8}, {"text": "ultimately having the budget proceed on December 11th uh such that the rates can come", "start": 2304.8, "end": 2312.92}, {"text": "into effect on January 1st so you will see in the report that's", "start": 2312.92, "end": 2320.079}, {"text": "before you some amendments and in alignment with the legislation is the report is before", "start": 2320.079, "end": 2327.16}, {"text": "committee for consideration and it is before you for consideration for any potential", "start": 2327.16, "end": 2333.599}, {"text": "amendments to the budget and if there are no amendments to", "start": 2333.599, "end": 2340.16}, {"text": "the budget then the budget will proceed in effect uh and the rates will come", "start": 2340.16, "end": 2346.88}, {"text": "into effect January 1st so uh through the chair apologize for that lengthy um", "start": 2346.88, "end": 2354.04}, {"text": "summary of the memo and happy to answer any further questions and and through the chair if solic Shields if I've", "start": 2354.04, "end": 2362.079}, {"text": "misrepresented or miscommunicated any points I'll invite s Shields to provide clarity", "start": 2362.079, "end": 2368.56}, {"text": "thank you just for clarifying uh that runway for us uh very appreciative uh", "start": 2368.56, "end": 2374.4}, {"text": "councelor Denko you still have the floor thank you this is uh a new process that", "start": 2374.4, "end": 2381.119}, {"text": "uh that we have and that this municipality followed before um as per", "start": 2381.119, "end": 2386.68}, {"text": "the legislative changes from the from the provincial government so my understanding is we're we're bringing", "start": 2386.68, "end": 2392.64}, {"text": "our budget procedures in line with that provincial legislation but I think the really", "start": 2392.64, "end": 2398.24}, {"text": "important thing for committee to understand and and to appreciate moving", "start": 2398.24, "end": 2403.599}, {"text": "forward is that today Council committee and council's role is to make amendments", "start": 2403.599, "end": 2409.8}, {"text": "or or consider the Amendments that are on that may be brought forward um if no", "start": 2409.8, "end": 2415.16}, {"text": "amendments are brought forward that the budget simply moves forward it's no longer committee and council's role to", "start": 2415.16, "end": 2421.04}, {"text": "approve or deny the budget um we're simply reviewing any any changes and", "start": 2421.04, "end": 2428.8}, {"text": "just on on the timing um just to be clear that that December 11th date was", "start": 2428.8, "end": 2434.24}, {"text": "was strategically chosen to finalize the budget for it to be able to move forward", "start": 2434.24, "end": 2439.359}, {"text": "uh there's pretty significant consequences if that doesn't happen and there there's a a consideration by", "start": 2439.359, "end": 2445.64}, {"text": "committee and Council to shorten the date that there is the 30 days for amendments so um just really important", "start": 2445.64, "end": 2453.72}, {"text": "that everybody because we we've had some behind the scenes discussions on this obviously but this is new information", "start": 2453.72, "end": 2460.28}, {"text": "for this committee and Council um and I think it's it's critical that we all", "start": 2460.28, "end": 2465.48}, {"text": "understand what the process is moving forward thank you thank you next uh so folks know", "start": 2465.48, "end": 2471.56}, {"text": "Council Wang followed by councelor cret followed by councelor Jackson councelor Wayne thank you through you chair just a", "start": 2471.56, "end": 2478.76}, {"text": "question on W being struck out because it is an advocacy perspective and I know", "start": 2478.76, "end": 2486.599}, {"text": "that it may not be in line with um with this directive however adding that to", "start": 2486.599, "end": 2494.8}, {"text": "the document or taking that I'm just questioning why it was taken out because there is just that additional bit of", "start": 2494.8, "end": 2502.56}, {"text": "infrastruct uh information or direction that could allow us to go and appeal to", "start": 2502.56, "end": 2508.56}, {"text": "other orders of government it's on uh page six of six it's at the very top it's in Bolt that's been struck out", "start": 2508.56, "end": 2517.519}, {"text": "thank you my understanding and I'll seek confirmation is that the the regulation pertains to the budget oh I see and only", "start": 2519.76, "end": 2527.4}, {"text": "the budget it doesn't pertain to actions that are uh externalities if you will I'll ask uh City sister or GM Zera to", "start": 2527.4, "end": 2535.839}, {"text": "confirm or please correct me through the chair that that is accurate I'll I'll highlight another", "start": 2535.839, "end": 2543.079}, {"text": "change uh for for transparency", "start": 2543.079, "end": 2548.28}, {"text": "the original version included a recommendation L which was a communication recommendation with", "start": 2548.28, "end": 2554.92}, {"text": "respect to the 2026 storm water rate as what is before", "start": 2554.92, "end": 2561.44}, {"text": "committee for your consideration is the 2025 budget in order to align with the", "start": 2561.44, "end": 2567.48}, {"text": "legislation we have amended the report to reflect all the information and", "start": 2567.48, "end": 2573.72}, {"text": "requirements as it relates to 2025 and so uh a bit of housekeeping to", "start": 2573.72, "end": 2579.88}, {"text": "ensure that the recommendations that are before you are specific to supporting", "start": 2579.88, "end": 2585.559}, {"text": "the 2025 budget any items outside of the budget have been amended uh and for", "start": 2585.559, "end": 2593}, {"text": "instance the original recommendation L will come before committee and Council", "start": 2593, "end": 2598.559}, {"text": "as part of the 2026 budget oh okay thank you my second", "start": 2598.559, "end": 2605.359}, {"text": "question is a bit more procedural I just really want to understand this a little bit better because as we have strict", "start": 2605.359, "end": 2611.88}, {"text": "timelines and this budget is part one of a two-parter budget so how will this um", "start": 2611.88, "end": 2617.839}, {"text": "legislation and our timelines be affected for part two because in part two we also have public delegations we", "start": 2617.839, "end": 2625.04}, {"text": "have Department days where and that doesn't necessarily fit within a 15-day window so what does what does this mean", "start": 2625.04, "end": 2632.079}, {"text": "for part two of the budget in its entirety so your question pertains to", "start": 2632.079, "end": 2638.16}, {"text": "the tax uh and uh the the the tax uh", "start": 2638.16, "end": 2643.28}, {"text": "funded operating Capital yes my understanding is the the the legislation pertains to we we have decided to sever", "start": 2643.28, "end": 2650.48}, {"text": "ours our rate because of the the Electra issue and the financial consequences of", "start": 2650.48, "end": 2655.8}, {"text": "not meeting that deadline and then the regulation would uh pertain to the that", "start": 2655.8, "end": 2661.72}, {"text": "in and of itself in terms of the timelines but I'll look to solicitor Shield to correct me if I'm wrong", "start": 2661.72, "end": 2667.359}, {"text": "through the chair or through me through you thank you through the chair um yes", "start": 2667.359, "end": 2675.319}, {"text": "uh you are correct um we have a two-part um we divided our budget into two parts", "start": 2675.319, "end": 2681.88}, {"text": "the tax supported and the rate supported and the tax both of them have the same", "start": 2681.88, "end": 2687.319}, {"text": "timeline so the the clock starts ticking once the budget is presented so the tax", "start": 2687.319, "end": 2693.28}, {"text": "supported was the rate support was presented on November nber um 22nd I", "start": 2693.28, "end": 2699.359}, {"text": "believe and um so the 30-day window for Amendment starts during that period and", "start": 2699.359, "end": 2705.68}, {"text": "when the rate supported budget is presented on January um I don't have the", "start": 2705.68, "end": 2711.079}, {"text": "date in front of me but that date then the 30-day window again for Amendment starts um for that particular um budget", "start": 2711.079, "end": 2719}, {"text": "so um there are two time triggers for the two types of budget um that the city", "start": 2719, "end": 2725.8}, {"text": "presents does that answer your question counselor so I", "start": 2725.8, "end": 2731.559}, {"text": "guess defini sorry excuse me so definitively", "start": 2731.559, "end": 2737.359}, {"text": "we have all of those prep days so we have all of those departmental budget um presentation days those are technically", "start": 2737.359, "end": 2744.48}, {"text": "not presenting the budget it is just literally presenting the um what the", "start": 2744.48, "end": 2750.16}, {"text": "Departments are putting forward to be included in the budget and we also have public delegation days those do not", "start": 2750.16, "end": 2756}, {"text": "trigger that first first um sort of the tax supported budget trigger is that", "start": 2756, "end": 2763.28}, {"text": "correct because we probably won't see it until end of January right so GM Zar can answer clarify that", "start": 2763.28, "end": 2770.68}, {"text": "for you counselor through the chair and and", "start": 2770.68, "end": 2775.72}, {"text": "we'll confirm this in the coming weeks I don't expect this will change our tax supported budget schedule and process", "start": 2775.72, "end": 2783.44}, {"text": "the requirement is that it be presented to committee before February 1st we", "start": 2783.44, "end": 2789.319}, {"text": "expect to meet that requirement uh we are still working", "start": 2789.319, "end": 2794.4}, {"text": "towards departmental presentations with respect to our preliminary 2025 budgets", "start": 2794.4, "end": 2800.44}, {"text": "the boards and agencies would continue to be invited and so with respect to the", "start": 2800.44, "end": 2805.72}, {"text": "schedule the content we're not expecting changes similar to the amendments to the", "start": 2805.72, "end": 2811.96}, {"text": "report that would have to properly reflect the legisl", "start": 2811.96, "end": 2817.4}, {"text": "so the traditional reports in terms of the front end all the recommendations", "start": 2817.4, "end": 2823.079}, {"text": "those would have to align with the legislation in that committee to", "start": 2823.079, "end": 2828.48}, {"text": "consider the budget versus the traditional recommendations and", "start": 2828.48, "end": 2835.039}, {"text": "approvals may I just put this in my own words sure so it strikes me that we have", "start": 2836.359, "end": 2841.96}, {"text": "a deadline of February 1 to present the tax supported budget which incl is", "start": 2841.96, "end": 2847.079}, {"text": "capital and operating and that has to be presented to us before February 1 that's correct at the February 1 date there is", "start": 2847.079, "end": 2853.52}, {"text": "a 30-day clock for us to do amendments the clock starts on the day the budget", "start": 2853.52, "end": 2859.44}, {"text": "is presented in January right so that is before February one and then we will", "start": 2859.44, "end": 2864.68}, {"text": "have to have a fully um amended approved sorry amended budget before the", "start": 2864.68, "end": 2873}, {"text": "end of February to be inside of that 30-day window so in turn it sounds as", "start": 2873, "end": 2878.88}, {"text": "though we still have uh we're still able to do all of the same things that we were previously planning on doing pretty", "start": 2878.88, "end": 2884.8}, {"text": "much okay through the chair yes uh just the", "start": 2884.8, "end": 2889.88}, {"text": "30-day period is as it relates to the budget being presented so for instance", "start": 2889.88, "end": 2896.04}, {"text": "if the budget were to be pres and I'm not suggesting it's being presented January 1st uh so not to get anyone", "start": 2896.04, "end": 2902.04}, {"text": "concerned that we're inviting you uh to Chambers dece or January if it were to", "start": 2902.04, "end": 2907.72}, {"text": "be presented January 1st that would uh allow committee to make any amendments", "start": 2907.72, "end": 2914.119}, {"text": "up to January 31st that's the significance of the 30 days but because", "start": 2914.119, "end": 2919.64}, {"text": "it's not being presented on January 1st imagine that it's being presented on January 29th for example we would have", "start": 2919.64, "end": 2925.68}, {"text": "until February the 28th is yeah through the chair so uh we are looking to stay", "start": 2925.68, "end": 2933.559}, {"text": "with the schedule that's that's been presented and uh to still align with that February", "start": 2933.559, "end": 2940.52}, {"text": "I believe 11th or 12th date I can't recall exactly what date so it would be", "start": 2940.52, "end": 2945.76}, {"text": "presented in advance such that the 30-day window uh would would allow", "start": 2945.76, "end": 2953.079}, {"text": "for again the budget to be adopted on the February 11th or 12th okay perfect", "start": 2953.079, "end": 2959.559}, {"text": "thank you that was just I was confused about all of these thank you uh councelor cret please", "start": 2959.559, "end": 2967.92}, {"text": "I want to summarize what I think I understand just get a yes or no and then have two questions about the amendment", "start": 2967.92, "end": 2973.559}, {"text": "process and then one about um last year's process so my understanding is pretty simply the mayor presents two", "start": 2973.559, "end": 2980.799}, {"text": "budgets one's a rate budget or a water budget one is a tax", "start": 2980.799, "end": 2986.2}, {"text": "budget we get presented those budgets through staff's presentations we have an option to make", "start": 2986.2, "end": 2991.799}, {"text": "amendments to those budgets if we don't make amendments the budgets are then finalized at certain on a certain", "start": 2991.799, "end": 2999.4}, {"text": "date please yeah through the chair that's correct", "start": 3001.88, "end": 3007.16}, {"text": "good summary thank", "start": 3007.16, "end": 3009.92}, {"text": "you second half of that as I coughed chokingly into the microphone sorry was", "start": 3012.64, "end": 3017.68}, {"text": "um that there are periods where we can", "start": 3017.68, "end": 3023.16}, {"text": "offer amendments and those amendments uh can be veto by the mayor but then", "start": 3023.16, "end": 3029.68}, {"text": "2third of us could say thanks for the veto but we're going to overrule that veto once that process completes then", "start": 3029.68, "end": 3035.96}, {"text": "the budgets are approved is that also a generally Fair understanding of the situation through the chair that's", "start": 3035.96, "end": 3042.24}, {"text": "correct and those timelines are identified in the memo that's before you yeah y right so I guess the question I", "start": 3042.24, "end": 3048.88}, {"text": "have for the chair or whomever is exactly how the Amendments will be dealt with so I know we have a 30- hour 30-day", "start": 3048.88, "end": 3055}, {"text": "timeline I get all the stuff that's in the report but what isn't outlined is the activity so let's just say January", "start": 3055, "end": 3060.359}, {"text": "23rd is what it says when the tax budget will be presented to us we then kind of have a week of I", "start": 3060.359, "end": 3067.76}, {"text": "don't know what goes on there and then February 1st to the 30th right we would then have a time to put forward", "start": 3067.76, "end": 3072.88}, {"text": "amendments and then there's a process in that process where vetos or you know overriding goes on I guess what I'm", "start": 3072.88, "end": 3079.16}, {"text": "asking is what's going to happen between January 23rd and the end of February in terms of how to actually bring those", "start": 3079.16, "end": 3084.72}, {"text": "amendments here we'll be having certain meeting for for Amendment bringing or those kind of happen offline and all", "start": 3084.72, "end": 3089.92}, {"text": "show up at the end of February for one giant discussion like I'm just trying to understand what the process is in February from January 23rd to February", "start": 3089.92, "end": 3095.559}, {"text": "the end of February what does it look like to bring amendments and when will", "start": 3095.559, "end": 3100.599}, {"text": "we actually get a copy of that uh so we can start to look at it for making amendments before January", "start": 3100.599, "end": 3106.559}, {"text": "23rd okay thank you let let's take your last question first if I may in terms of if the question is when will you be", "start": 3106.559, "end": 3113.04}, {"text": "delivered the tax supported rate and capital is that your question okay um I'll put that question to GM", "start": 3113.04, "end": 3120.599}, {"text": "zarck thank you through the chair um we are working towards the contents for the", "start": 3120.599, "end": 3127.88}, {"text": "2025 tax budget uh I can't provide a definitive date um I know traditionally", "start": 3127.88, "end": 3134.92}, {"text": "we've presented it uh either before the holidays or just after the holidays and", "start": 3134.92, "end": 3142.96}, {"text": "uh so again senior leadership team are working towards finalizing in it um and", "start": 3142.96, "end": 3148.24}, {"text": "then there is some time required in order to make the information aoda uh compliant and and so again unfortunately", "start": 3148.24, "end": 3155.96}, {"text": "I can't provide a definitive date at this time but we would look to provide that information as in the past either", "start": 3155.96, "end": 3163.68}, {"text": "before the holidays or just after our holiday", "start": 3163.68, "end": 3168.839}, {"text": "shutdown thank you JM Eric and on your second question of when and amendments", "start": 3168.839, "end": 3173.92}, {"text": "can be entertained um certainly stand to be corrected but I don't think there", "start": 3173.92, "end": 3179.44}, {"text": "will be much of a distinction from what we did last year uh when there were were amendments an amendment day uh following", "start": 3179.44, "end": 3186.64}, {"text": "all the presentations were to be entertained so that we could see them and appreciate them in", "start": 3186.64, "end": 3192.24}, {"text": "full if if I have aired on that y through the chair I I'll just add the", "start": 3192.24, "end": 3199.68}, {"text": "schedule that has been um assumed for 2025 tax supported budget there are some", "start": 3199.68, "end": 3207.44}, {"text": "generic GIC dates at the latter part of January and February we typically don't", "start": 3207.44, "end": 3213.28}, {"text": "have set agendas for that those dates so those could be uh dates to allow for", "start": 3213.28, "end": 3220.76}, {"text": "questions and potential amendments thank you JS Mr Garrick thanks I would just", "start": 3220.76, "end": 3226.599}, {"text": "say and this may be my own my own error and I apologize for that in advance of saying so you know we're presenting the", "start": 3226.599, "end": 3232.4}, {"text": "budget's going to be presented on the 23rd like publicly of January and then the following week we have presentations", "start": 3232.4, "end": 3238.64}, {"text": "on the 29th 30th and 31st from different departments and as far as I can tell at", "start": 3238.64, "end": 3243.92}, {"text": "this point and I'll look at the schedule again I don't see those those blank dates in February but I guess we could maybe assign those at some point in the", "start": 3243.92, "end": 3249.559}, {"text": "process I guess I'm looking to you to say could you just be really clear maybe in the start of the year what dates those all going to be I'll leave it", "start": 3249.559, "end": 3255.119}, {"text": "there for now um secondly my question is about this is all based on strong M Powers right which introduced last year", "start": 3255.119, "end": 3262.319}, {"text": "if I have it correct in terms of time these Powers were in place before for last year's budget right so I guess what", "start": 3262.319, "end": 3269.319}, {"text": "I'm trying to I'm struggling with a little bit is why why now and why not last year uh maybe it's just that we", "start": 3269.319, "end": 3275.28}, {"text": "needed time to do all the research and apply things but I just like to hear that out loud so I understand why not last year because we could have probably", "start": 3275.28, "end": 3281.4}, {"text": "you know done that then yeah I think it's uh respectfully a", "start": 3281.4, "end": 3286.559}, {"text": "very good question and I think as you suggested uh we're just kind of learning this as we go we have some muscle memory", "start": 3286.559, "end": 3293.839}, {"text": "when we how and when we do the budget uh and uh it's kind of always worked that", "start": 3293.839, "end": 3299.04}, {"text": "way but if uh GM Zar if you would like to add any commentary please yeah through the chair uh both the counselor", "start": 3299.04, "end": 3306.599}, {"text": "and the chair's comments are correct is that this is last year while we were", "start": 3306.599, "end": 3312.16}, {"text": "trying to understand the legislation and there was not clear regulations in terms of how municipalities were to navigate", "start": 3312.16, "end": 3319.76}, {"text": "through the legislation um we made some amendments such as the mayoral directive", "start": 3319.76, "end": 3326.4}, {"text": "and then maintained past practice uh as relates to the reports the formatting of", "start": 3326.4, "end": 3332.16}, {"text": "the reports and the budget process as we observe around us best practices and other jurisdictions and interpretations", "start": 3332.16, "end": 3339.119}, {"text": "of the legislation we identify the need to adapt and that is what's before you", "start": 3339.119, "end": 3345.44}, {"text": "and hence the memo that's before you as we continue to learn from neighboring as", "start": 3345.44, "end": 3351.2}, {"text": "well as other jurisdictions in Ontario how to implement the intent of the", "start": 3351.2, "end": 3356.52}, {"text": "legislation and align with the intent of the legislation thanks for answering my", "start": 3356.52, "end": 3361.799}, {"text": "questions briefly just want to say I actually quite like the process in terms of the way it's been laid out that we have clear delineation of what's going", "start": 3361.799, "end": 3368.96}, {"text": "on ample time to make amendments and a clear process for how to veto amendments this is just way clearer and way more", "start": 3368.96, "end": 3376.039}, {"text": "efficient of a process than I think has happened in previous years and that may be the result of strong M powers or", "start": 3376.039, "end": 3381.28}, {"text": "whatever I'm just saying that how we're doing this I think is going to be good in terms of clarity for residents and I think frankly keeping the conversation", "start": 3381.28, "end": 3388}, {"text": "on the budget thank you councelor councelor", "start": 3388, "end": 3393.079}, {"text": "Jackson good morning budget chair Wilson uh well to the war I counselor I'm glad it's clear to him it's much more", "start": 3393.359, "end": 3399.72}, {"text": "complicated and confusing to me and isn't that interesting um a number of you um after last Friday when we tabled", "start": 3399.72, "end": 3407.76}, {"text": "the matter for today this is unbelievable what we're learning today", "start": 3407.76, "end": 3412.88}, {"text": "that would have all been not in our in not for us uh to deliberate on if we had", "start": 3412.88, "end": 3419.599}, {"text": "approved the budget last Friday Tom why do we need a second meeting well let's digest let's get the Public's input", "start": 3419.599, "end": 3424.72}, {"text": "shair Wilson um and to councelor Dano's Point can I get crystal clear here with", "start": 3424.72, "end": 3430.88}, {"text": "respect to the new regulations are we just here to basically if there's no", "start": 3430.88, "end": 3436.28}, {"text": "amendments we don't need to do anything more and we can just walk out of the chambers can I just get some real", "start": 3436.28, "end": 3441.559}, {"text": "Clarity on that please because I'm sensing like this is just Tom it's a feta comp compl", "start": 3441.559, "end": 3446.76}, {"text": "and unless you got some amendments um the new regulations say it's it's going ahead regardless can either you budget", "start": 3446.76, "end": 3453.359}, {"text": "chair Wilson or staff further provide clarification for me please so that I", "start": 3453.359, "end": 3458.68}, {"text": "understand your question um your question is under 522 or 520 under the", "start": 3458.68, "end": 3466.68}, {"text": "new regulations what is uh the role of the mayor what is the role of of council is", "start": 3466.68, "end": 3474.119}, {"text": "that a fair summation okay um I know the the role of the mayor", "start": 3474.119, "end": 3479.799}, {"text": "that is uh she must do Under the regulation is she must present um and", "start": 3479.799, "end": 3485.72}, {"text": "prepare a budget perfect they have both fulfilled those obligations okay I will ask either solicitor Shield or GM zaric", "start": 3485.72, "end": 3494.24}, {"text": "to walk through a gain what is the role and responsibility of this body in in", "start": 3494.24, "end": 3501.039}, {"text": "considering and offering any proposals of change is that fair that's a fair a a", "start": 3501.039, "end": 3506.76}, {"text": "summary uh budget chair Wilson because otherwise I got lots of work to do and if we're just basically here leaving it", "start": 3506.76, "end": 3512.28}, {"text": "with the mayor and we've just Pro heard some more information if we had no amendments then really there's nothing", "start": 3512.28, "end": 3517.88}, {"text": "more for this body to do but I love your summation please I need some answers through you you're welcome whoever wants", "start": 3517.88, "end": 3524.319}, {"text": "to start is it Jam zerck or or sisser Shield through the chair maybe I'll start and then I'll invite Lisa the um", "start": 3524.319, "end": 3532.76}, {"text": "the mayor uh delivered a mayoral directive as relates to the preparation", "start": 3532.76, "end": 3540}, {"text": "of the rate and tax supported budgets staff aligned the budget with that", "start": 3540, "end": 3546.48}, {"text": "mayoral directive that is what is before committee for your", "start": 3546.48, "end": 3552.079}, {"text": "consideration committee can amend that budget provide direction to staff you", "start": 3552.079, "end": 3558.839}, {"text": "know to to strike a particular project investment to add to", "start": 3558.839, "end": 3566.28}, {"text": "a particular initiative that is what is we are before committee today if there are any", "start": 3566.28, "end": 3572.96}, {"text": "amendments to the budget if there are no amendments to the budget then the budget", "start": 3572.96, "end": 3579.92}, {"text": "that's been brought before you for consideration will go to Council on", "start": 3579.92, "end": 3585.799}, {"text": "December the 11th so thank you GM Zer so today then if there's no amendments there's really", "start": 3585.799, "end": 3591.839}, {"text": "no decision making by this body today is that what I've heard through you budget shair", "start": 3591.839, "end": 3598.039}, {"text": "Wilson if I may please um I I think I'm not trying to be pantic never um I think", "start": 3598.16, "end": 3605.119}, {"text": "you're seeking Clarity um it was always going to be uh", "start": 3605.119, "end": 3610.319}, {"text": "within the realm today of putting forward any uh amendments so that does", "start": 3610.319, "end": 3615.599}, {"text": "not change and I think that's what I've heard GM zeric reiterate but I will look because you're seeking the clarity and I", "start": 3615.599, "end": 3621.72}, {"text": "think it's absolutely fair I will look to GM Zar again to score that right of", "start": 3621.72, "end": 3627.599}, {"text": "is was yours before and is yours now in simple words Mike do I have to vote today or not please so through the chair", "start": 3627.599, "end": 3635.28}, {"text": "if there are any amendments to the budget then committee would make decisions vote on those amendments to", "start": 3635.28, "end": 3642.48}, {"text": "the budget if there are no amendments to the budget then the budget in the form that's before you now will proceed to", "start": 3642.48, "end": 3650}, {"text": "December 11th so again we committee is not required to approve", "start": 3650, "end": 3655.72}, {"text": "the budget what committee is is asked to do is to consider the budget for", "start": 3655.72, "end": 3662.039}, {"text": "amendments thank you GMS I'm I'm not giggling at you at all Jim sigar I'm just giggling Within Myself of what I've", "start": 3662.039, "end": 3668.88}, {"text": "learned today uh thank goodness for the six day uh uh referral to today um what", "start": 3668.88, "end": 3674.44}, {"text": "I've learned thank you GM zeric so uh really I've got no decision today if there's no amendments because they'll go", "start": 3674.44, "end": 3680.28}, {"text": "to December 11th can I also ask on the L uh budget chair Wilson that's been looks", "start": 3680.28, "end": 3686.2}, {"text": "like to me it's been stroked out and Elsie McCrae and I were over the last few days working on something because I", "start": 3686.2, "end": 3692.24}, {"text": "wanted a separate vote on the storm water fee I.E Rain Tax and I see now it", "start": 3692.24, "end": 3698.559}, {"text": "is stroked out for approval to be effective April 1st 2026 does that mean then the storm", "start": 3698.559, "end": 3706.319}, {"text": "waterer fee is in a state of abayance and at some future time you'll come back", "start": 3706.319, "end": 3711.44}, {"text": "for deliberation through you please thank you here my cheat take is because", "start": 3711.44, "end": 3717.68}, {"text": "in L 2026 was referenced this process", "start": 3717.68, "end": 3723.799}, {"text": "and the purview of this process only applies to 2025 so it would kind of be", "start": 3723.799, "end": 3729.559}, {"text": "deemed out of order but I'll ask solicitor Shields or GM andar to comment please", "start": 3729.559, "end": 3734.64}, {"text": "okay through the chair that's correct is uh again a few housekeeping amendments", "start": 3734.64, "end": 3741.72}, {"text": "in order to align with the intent and that is information specific to the 2025 water budget is", "start": 3741.72, "end": 3750.52}, {"text": "we've ensured that any of the recommendations are specific to what is", "start": 3750.52, "end": 3755.92}, {"text": "required to support the 2025 water budget L was intended to be a", "start": 3755.92, "end": 3761.599}, {"text": "communication item as to what is expected in 2026 for that reason it's", "start": 3761.599, "end": 3767.92}, {"text": "been stricken from the recommendation and we'll come back before committee for", "start": 3767.92, "end": 3773.72}, {"text": "2026 so thank you GM zerck and thank you budget chair Wilson because politicians", "start": 3773.72, "end": 3780.52}, {"text": "talking to politicians often is very important for me as well so then my", "start": 3780.52, "end": 3786.119}, {"text": "consistent vote against the storm water fee today I don't have to worry about explaining to constituents that somehow", "start": 3786.119, "end": 3793.799}, {"text": "it was embedded in the water Wastewater rate budget that's going to December", "start": 3793.799, "end": 3799.359}, {"text": "11th because I'll get another chance next year in light of what's going to", "start": 3799.359, "end": 3805.24}, {"text": "potentially be implemented in 2026 I've summarized correctly GM zeric", "start": 3805.24, "end": 3811.44}, {"text": "through the chair that's correct thank you very good and so then budget chair", "start": 3811.44, "end": 3816.68}, {"text": "Wilson you tell me now um when can we make comments then favorably unfavorably", "start": 3816.68, "end": 3823.039}, {"text": "about the overall budget before us even though I can't vote on it", "start": 3823.039, "end": 3828.599}, {"text": "today thank you um I just uh I'm I'm I'm uh just getting some Council from our LC", "start": 3829.839, "end": 3837.559}, {"text": "McCrae that we're on the communication item per se not on the report per se I", "start": 3837.559, "end": 3843.52}, {"text": "can wait then okay thank you thank you very much budget chair Wilson for your Indulgence thank you oh no thank you", "start": 3843.52, "end": 3849.68}, {"text": "we're on to councelor Paul's next", "start": 3849.68, "end": 3853.76}, {"text": "please thank you and uh you know when this just came out now I was like", "start": 3855.44, "end": 3861.279}, {"text": "councelor Jackson if I don't understand it how is the public going to understand that we", "start": 3861.279, "end": 3867.44}, {"text": "do not even have uh the power we just have the mayor that she decides so I I", "start": 3867.44, "end": 3874.92}, {"text": "understand the process now the process uh I thought it was about timeline and", "start": 3874.92, "end": 3880.44}, {"text": "we need to do the timeline but in my opinion what's happening is you're", "start": 3880.44, "end": 3886.079}, {"text": "taking the power of the counselor even to debate certain things", "start": 3886.079, "end": 3891.96}, {"text": "because even if we put an amendment do we debate on the amendment and then the", "start": 3891.96, "end": 3898.24}, {"text": "mayor overwrites it and and so that's what I don't understand are we giving", "start": 3898.24, "end": 3904.16}, {"text": "our power to say we'll listen to the budget uh we'll have to agree if we", "start": 3904.16, "end": 3909.44}, {"text": "don't agree we'll do an amendment but it might not go through and the mayor is going to override it anyways so I'm just", "start": 3909.44, "end": 3916.079}, {"text": "saying if we don't understand it clearly how would you want the public when", "start": 3916.079, "end": 3922.039}, {"text": "they're going to email me saying why did you vote for so and so why need you vote for the budget if I have no power I", "start": 3922.039, "end": 3928.96}, {"text": "don't understand it okay um just so you know you're your camera was cutting in", "start": 3928.96, "end": 3934.96}, {"text": "and out but I can see you now I could hear you throughout that um I'll look to the solicitor but my response to you", "start": 3934.96, "end": 3941.359}, {"text": "councelor Paul's is what will you say this is uh set out in provincial", "start": 3941.359, "end": 3947}, {"text": "legislation it is a requirement of I believe the 26 municipalities now that", "start": 3947, "end": 3953.4}, {"text": "fall under this regulation that is the answer okay that's the answer so", "start": 3953.4, "end": 3958.44}, {"text": "therefore you know I could not do any work anymore just agree with everything", "start": 3958.44, "end": 3963.68}, {"text": "and say well that's the legislation is that I'm going to say I'm going to say what is the duty of a counselor I just", "start": 3963.68, "end": 3971.279}, {"text": "want to know because already people have emailed me said that uh you know 5.9 6", "start": 3971.279, "end": 3978.279}, {"text": "whatever 6.9 is not acceptable that's my problem that is what I don't understand", "start": 3978.279, "end": 3985.599}, {"text": "I understand about the process I understand about timing but I do not", "start": 3985.599, "end": 3990.799}, {"text": "understand what's a role in looking at the budget okay councelor Pauls thank", "start": 3990.799, "end": 3996.039}, {"text": "you for that question um I think uh if if you would like uh", "start": 3996.039, "end": 4002.799}, {"text": "myself or probably more uh appropriately GM zaric to go over that your role that", "start": 4002.799, "end": 4011.079}, {"text": "is provided for you under the legislation is you can put forward amendments as previously", "start": 4011.079, "end": 4016.72}, {"text": "but I'll I heard excuse me but I did hear even though we put an amendment", "start": 4016.72, "end": 4022.48}, {"text": "that the mayor can override it so let's say I don't want this you know uh tax on", "start": 4022.48, "end": 4028.92}, {"text": "on the water rate and but the you know the mayor can override it so what's the", "start": 4028.92, "end": 4034.599}, {"text": "use of putting amendments like I I don't understand so", "start": 4034.599, "end": 4041.039}, {"text": "I'm just saying I just want to be clear I just need a question please the question is this we're debating this", "start": 4041.039, "end": 4048.2}, {"text": "because I I believe all of us are a little bit confused or don't understand", "start": 4048.2, "end": 4053.72}, {"text": "really what's going on and it started with councelor Dano saying well we really don't have power and the budget", "start": 4053.72, "end": 4060.48}, {"text": "is going to be the budget and we have to agree with it and that to me uh is a", "start": 4060.48, "end": 4066.68}, {"text": "problem anyways so that's my statement I want to understand it better uh and I", "start": 4066.68, "end": 4071.72}, {"text": "want the public to understand it better that's my point thank you thank you it is the duty of staff to", "start": 4071.72, "end": 4079.599}, {"text": "prepare the budget and present it to council according to the meril's directives they have done that okay it", "start": 4079.599, "end": 4086.4}, {"text": "is uh the prerogative of a member of council to put forward amendments that", "start": 4086.4, "end": 4092.72}, {"text": "prerogative was enjoyed previously that prerogative is enjoyed now okay um councelor Alex", "start": 4092.72, "end": 4103.318}, {"text": "Wilson thank you uh through You Cher I think just some comments from me yeah if", "start": 4103.319, "end": 4108.679}, {"text": "I had wanted to say let's get that Dundas Wastewater Treatment Plant built tomorrow we're going to you know change", "start": 4108.679, "end": 4113.838}, {"text": "the budget I would have brought an amendment here today Tred to talk to other folks get that approved and could say yep let's move that funding", "start": 4113.839, "end": 4120.92}, {"text": "forward that's how I would have done that I wouldn't have achieved that goal by voting against the budget whole hand I would have brought a solution to the", "start": 4120.92, "end": 4127.12}, {"text": "table and tried to convince other people that this was the better way to do it under the system we're hearing about now", "start": 4127.12, "end": 4133.08}, {"text": "I have to bring a solution to the table and convince other other people need to do it is just some of the people I need to convince are maybe changing a little", "start": 4133.08, "end": 4139.159}, {"text": "bit in terms of how much their vote weighs that's that's my understanding I think it's been repeatedly confirmed", "start": 4139.159, "end": 4145.238}, {"text": "just wanted to put that out there that for me personally um I'm seeing this as part for the course and um just wanted", "start": 4145.239, "end": 4150.798}, {"text": "to share that councelor Kar", "start": 4150.799, "end": 4156.639}, {"text": "please thank you budget chair Wilson just one question going back to what JM ziger provided in his overview earlier", "start": 4156.759, "end": 4163.88}, {"text": "on this morning just around the 30-day period and the prerogative of council to shorten that 30-day period and um the", "start": 4163.88, "end": 4170.6}, {"text": "fact that 30 days would take us past the point of being able to implement January 1st so is there a procedural step here", "start": 4170.6, "end": 4177.238}, {"text": "that we will need to move something to shorten that period That's part one of the question and two I I've heard", "start": 4177.239, "end": 4184.278}, {"text": "December 11th referred to several times because that's a council meeting in under the previous process we would", "start": 4184.279, "end": 4190.159}, {"text": "ratify a budget understanding that's not part of the the process now so what actually would be happening on December", "start": 4190.159, "end": 4196.64}, {"text": "11th 2024 for this process thank you thank you JM zarck or solicitor", "start": 4196.64, "end": 4203.88}, {"text": "Shields again through the chair we we'll just continue with our pattern I'll start and so Shields can can add in um", "start": 4203.88, "end": 4212.719}, {"text": "so to the first question with respect to the 30-day period is uh again the intent", "start": 4212.719, "end": 4220.84}, {"text": "is to have a rate effective January 1st in order to set satisfy that 30-day", "start": 4220.84, "end": 4227.159}, {"text": "period Council would have to approve amending to a lesser period And I", "start": 4227.159, "end": 4234.76}, {"text": "believe uh what we are uh anticipating is potentially putting something forward", "start": 4234.76, "end": 4240.8}, {"text": "on December the 4th to allow for that consideration in order for the budget to", "start": 4240.8, "end": 4246.76}, {"text": "take effect uh December", "start": 4246.76, "end": 4251.36}, {"text": "11th councelor are there any other first time speakers before I move to second time seeing none councelor", "start": 4253.8, "end": 4262.48}, {"text": "Dano thank you and I I do appreciate this discussion because this is a", "start": 4262.48, "end": 4267.56}, {"text": "significant change in approach uh for this Committee in one way but in most of", "start": 4267.56, "end": 4273.76}, {"text": "the practical ways of of debating the budget nothing has really changed it's", "start": 4273.76, "end": 4279.28}, {"text": "it is and remains this council's role to consider the budget in good faith", "start": 4279.28, "end": 4285.76}, {"text": "um it is and remains this council's role to bring any changes to the budget", "start": 4285.76, "end": 4290.8}, {"text": "forward in order to uh make amendments or changes if there as councelor Alex", "start": 4290.8, "end": 4297.719}, {"text": "Wilson said to bring projects forward that may increase the rate or to make changes that may decrease the rate so if", "start": 4297.719, "end": 4304.88}, {"text": "if you uh you know that 6.9% rate if you think that is not acceptable my", "start": 4304.88, "end": 4310.08}, {"text": "residents won't accept that it is and has always been your role as a a", "start": 4310.08, "end": 4315.4}, {"text": "counselor to bring changes to the budget to reduce that rate so that hasn't", "start": 4315.4, "end": 4320.76}, {"text": "changed the only thing that's changed is the provincial legislation um changes council's role", "start": 4320.76, "end": 4328.32}, {"text": "from a straightup vote yes or no on the budget to that if there are no", "start": 4328.32, "end": 4334.12}, {"text": "amendments or the budget as amended simply moves forward so it takes that straight up yes no vote off the table", "start": 4334.12, "end": 4341.4}, {"text": "because I think logically what the legislation does is presumes that if you", "start": 4341.4, "end": 4347.36}, {"text": "didn't make any changes to the budget then obviously you support the budget so that is the process that the", "start": 4347.36, "end": 4354.12}, {"text": "province put in place and that is the process that's moving forward and in terms of our duties as Council nothing", "start": 4354.12, "end": 4361.36}, {"text": "changed it is our duty to make changes otherwise the budget moves forward as is", "start": 4361.36, "end": 4367.239}, {"text": "if there are changes made then the budget moves forward as amended thank", "start": 4367.239, "end": 4373.56}, {"text": "you thank you okay thank you there are no further", "start": 4373.56, "end": 4379.44}, {"text": "speakers on the roster here so we are on the communication item which has been", "start": 4379.44, "end": 4384.719}, {"text": "duly oh I beg your pardon councelor spap", "start": 4384.719, "end": 4389.679}, {"text": "for sorry chair I just um something I just heard I just wanted to clarify", "start": 4390.4, "end": 4397.639}, {"text": "um so it sounds to me like the what was just said is if you if you", "start": 4397.639, "end": 4403.719}, {"text": "don't make changes to the budget because you don't like it by putting any amendments forward all that's really", "start": 4403.719, "end": 4409.92}, {"text": "happened is the budget goes forward because you didn't do anything to try to reduce it so I'm going to bring let's", "start": 4409.92, "end": 4416.48}, {"text": "say three amendments forward for the property tax or this budget all those amendments", "start": 4416.48, "end": 4422.56}, {"text": "fail I get outvoted on my amendments so I've tried to change", "start": 4422.56, "end": 4428.639}, {"text": "it it fails because committee votes against it and then in the end I won't", "start": 4428.639, "end": 4435.28}, {"text": "be able to vote against the budget as a whole even though I tried to make amendments to the budget is that what", "start": 4435.28, "end": 4440.44}, {"text": "I'm hearing just some clarification please three thank you uh cic Shield would you", "start": 4440.44, "end": 4447.96}, {"text": "like to just walk through that that process again for", "start": 4447.96, "end": 4453.08}, {"text": "us thank you through the chair um yes I can so the the the strong mayor's Powers", "start": 4453.56, "end": 4460.8}, {"text": "um basically um the mayor gets to present a budget to to council so not to", "start": 4460.8, "end": 4466.76}, {"text": "committee to council to all members of council for Council to make amendments", "start": 4466.76, "end": 4472.239}, {"text": "to those budget items that they do not agree with if there are amendments and", "start": 4472.239, "end": 4478.56}, {"text": "they're passed um the mayor can veto those amendments if she chooses to do so", "start": 4478.56, "end": 4485.159}, {"text": "and Council also gets a chance to override that that veto by 2third", "start": 4485.159, "end": 4490.52}, {"text": "majority if the if through that process amendments are made made or no amendments are made Council the budget", "start": 4490.52, "end": 4498.239}, {"text": "is adopted it's not approved so Council does not have an as Council danle says", "start": 4498.239, "end": 4503.92}, {"text": "an up or down vote on the final disposition of the budget um under the", "start": 4503.92, "end": 4509.04}, {"text": "new powers does that answer your question councelor spatap for yes that does so", "start": 4509.04, "end": 4516.239}, {"text": "basically that meeting that last meeting where Council adopts the budget there's really no point um there's no vote per", "start": 4516.239, "end": 4523.28}, {"text": "se at that meeting one way or another just adopted that's good just looking for clarification thank you through the", "start": 4523.28, "end": 4528.76}, {"text": "chair it's a passive adoption process that's correct you're getting a thumbs", "start": 4528.76, "end": 4534}, {"text": "up solicor shield from councelor spap for I thank you for that thorough", "start": 4534, "end": 4539.719}, {"text": "response this time I see no further speaker oh beg your pardon councelor [Music]", "start": 4539.719, "end": 4546.6}, {"text": "tatterson I disagree with how things are being framed here if you don't support the budget you can not support the", "start": 4546.6, "end": 4553.8}, {"text": "actual whole process of the budget as if we're looking at say at", "start": 4553.8, "end": 4560.32}, {"text": "5.9% or whatever that percentage is and you disagree with", "start": 4560.32, "end": 4565.92}, {"text": "that and then we're sitting here and people are saying things like counselors", "start": 4565.92, "end": 4572.159}, {"text": "aren't supposed to get into the weeds counselors are supposed to stay above and do do governance how can I do", "start": 4572.159, "end": 4577.6}, {"text": "governance I don't run the department I think staff should be directed to give", "start": 4577.6, "end": 4584.239}, {"text": "us options to get it down to a percentage that we feel would be accepted by our residents say if I", "start": 4584.239, "end": 4591.199}, {"text": "wanted to support a budget at 3% staff should be directed to come in with", "start": 4591.199, "end": 4597.32}, {"text": "options about how to get that down to 3% then I can decide what or what not to", "start": 4597.32, "end": 4602.92}, {"text": "cut to get to that 3% and then I can answer to my residents more effectively", "start": 4602.92, "end": 4607.96}, {"text": "by saying things like well if we took it to 3% you're going to lose that Rec Center that we're trying to get if we", "start": 4607.96, "end": 4614.159}, {"text": "took it to 3% % you're not going to get garbage every week garbage you know pickup every week if we took it to 3%", "start": 4614.159, "end": 4621.44}, {"text": "and then share with the public that discussion and and and be educated about", "start": 4621.44, "end": 4626.679}, {"text": "it I can't make an educated decision at just a a arbitrary number unless we set", "start": 4626.679, "end": 4634.52}, {"text": "a goal for an actual number and then to say what we're going to lose or what we're going to gain or what we're going", "start": 4634.52, "end": 4640}, {"text": "to keep so for me I can I feel very confident in saying the the process for", "start": 4640, "end": 4645.679}, {"text": "me is flawed because the transparency is not there for what we're keeping or what", "start": 4645.679, "end": 4652.28}, {"text": "we're not or what we're giving you know what we could be losing so so so I", "start": 4652.28, "end": 4658.96}, {"text": "disagree with framing it and saying if you can't bring amendments to it that's", "start": 4658.96, "end": 4664.32}, {"text": "your fault counselor I feel like I'm in an uneducated position to make those and", "start": 4664.32, "end": 4670}, {"text": "I and I rely on staff to help me get that there and then I'll be the bad guy", "start": 4670, "end": 4675.639}, {"text": "to make that cut and then I'll be the bad guy to say Hey you lost this a point of order has been called", "start": 4675.639, "end": 4682.12}, {"text": "councelor tattis and I have to recognize the order first thank you so", "start": 4682.12, "end": 4687.36}, {"text": "respectfully it sounds like the counselor is blaming staff for not being", "start": 4687.36, "end": 4693.04}, {"text": "transparent not at all and I not at all I didn't hear that at all can I", "start": 4693.04, "end": 4698.44}, {"text": "councelor ttis and allow councelor Dano to finish explaining why he called a point of order thank you I I I don't", "start": 4698.44, "end": 4705}, {"text": "want to have any blame for staff for not being transparent or not coming forward", "start": 4705, "end": 4710.4}, {"text": "with options because respectfully if the counselor wanted options that is our", "start": 4710.4, "end": 4716.28}, {"text": "role as a council to set direction to staff to come back with options and in", "start": 4716.28, "end": 4721.52}, {"text": "the May mayoral directive she's already done that so once again you know this is", "start": 4721.52, "end": 4727.8}, {"text": "not staff not doing their role or jobs this is our job to direct staff and what", "start": 4727.8, "end": 4734}, {"text": "the counsel is explaining is exactly what our role is thank", "start": 4734, "end": 4739.679}, {"text": "you I disagree with that framing again I feel that I said the process was flawed", "start": 4739.679, "end": 4745.639}, {"text": "the process wasn't as transparent as needs to be no apologies if that was taken to mean that staff is not being", "start": 4745.639, "end": 4752.6}, {"text": "transparent I think the whole process lacks transparency in the sense of if we", "start": 4752.6, "end": 4757.8}, {"text": "want to set a guide I think we need to be more concrete with that that", "start": 4757.8, "end": 4763.239}, {"text": "percentage that we set as opposed to having staff look for efficiencies and", "start": 4763.239, "end": 4768.639}, {"text": "look for guidance and then provide for us you know the most efficient way of running it of running", "start": 4768.639, "end": 4776.199}, {"text": "the city as they can in most costeffective way without actually setting guidelines I think it's all", "start": 4776.199, "end": 4781.44}, {"text": "about we need to set priorities if we're going to lower that budget we need to set priorities of what is it that we", "start": 4781.44, "end": 4789.36}, {"text": "what services we need to keep what capital projects we need to to to do and", "start": 4789.36, "end": 4795.12}, {"text": "then be educated about well if we want to get it to here then we have to do this this and this I don't see that in", "start": 4795.12, "end": 4802}, {"text": "this process and I'm sorry maybe it's my inexperience of only being here two", "start": 4802, "end": 4807.6}, {"text": "years but that's how I feel I think if you need to make the changes that would be acceptable by our public I think we", "start": 4807.6, "end": 4815.679}, {"text": "need to set firm hard guidelines and I just don't see that when we I I see the", "start": 4815.679, "end": 4821.44}, {"text": "the intent but I I think you have to be firmer this and so that's why I you know", "start": 4821.44, "end": 4827.239}, {"text": "that's I just I just hate to say things like oh if you didn't come up with any answers counselor it's all you it's all", "start": 4827.239, "end": 4834.04}, {"text": "on you I think that it's also on the whole process thank you councelor tson I", "start": 4834.04, "end": 4840.96}, {"text": "I never got to rule on the point of order U but I appreciate in your remarks you you really did focus on the process", "start": 4840.96, "end": 4848.52}, {"text": "and I understand that uh you're not seeking to impune the Integrity of staff", "start": 4848.52, "end": 4853.92}, {"text": "so thank you for really uh framing that the way you did in your response and", "start": 4853.92, "end": 4859.12}, {"text": "again I will recognize GM zarck this process it is the mayor's duty to set", "start": 4859.12, "end": 4864.52}, {"text": "out a directive it is staff's responsibility to respond it is council's opportunity", "start": 4864.52, "end": 4871.88}, {"text": "and prerogative to amend uh and seek support for that I'll", "start": 4871.88, "end": 4876.92}, {"text": "recognize JM Zer please through the chair and I appreciate councelor Toon's", "start": 4876.92, "end": 4881.96}, {"text": "questions regarding the process and how the process May change I'll simply say my interpretation is this will not", "start": 4881.96, "end": 4889.28}, {"text": "result in a change as it relates to the flow of information from staff to", "start": 4889.28, "end": 4894.639}, {"text": "council um we do have dates set aside I think January 27th it was pointed out", "start": 4894.639, "end": 4900.159}, {"text": "February 7th for Q&A if Council has questions with respect to the budget", "start": 4900.159, "end": 4908.08}, {"text": "that through those dates the opportunity for the flow of information if that information", "start": 4908.08, "end": 4915.239}, {"text": "informs an amendment Council can then put forward an amendment to the budget", "start": 4915.239, "end": 4920.96}, {"text": "so again I'm not interpreting the process the change to limit the flow of", "start": 4920.96, "end": 4926.44}, {"text": "information I'm assuming that continued flow of information questions and", "start": 4926.44, "end": 4932.12}, {"text": "answers that may inform the budget will continue it's just the the action items", "start": 4932.12, "end": 4939.199}, {"text": "that now are more definitive as it relates to these timelines in that an amendment would have to go go forward", "start": 4939.199, "end": 4945.159}, {"text": "from Council be voted on to amend the budget as", "start": 4945.159, "end": 4950.96}, {"text": "presented thank you councelor you still have the floor if you", "start": 4950.96, "end": 4957.52}, {"text": "want I I appreciate that GM um again I think for me it's it it comes", "start": 4959.239, "end": 4966.719}, {"text": "down to what's more important to keep what what what what can be leted go if we set", "start": 4966.719, "end": 4975.719}, {"text": "that firm amount say it was 3% then tough decisions are going to", "start": 4975.719, "end": 4982.84}, {"text": "have to be made and I think those tough decisions need to be made I think they need to be presented", "start": 4982.84, "end": 4988.719}, {"text": "to us by staff so that we can make those tough decisions educated in an educated way and that's all I'm going to say and", "start": 4988.719, "end": 4995.08}, {"text": "I appreciate your answers and no intent to say anything about staff in a", "start": 4995.08, "end": 5000.12}, {"text": "negative way thank you thank you recognizing councelor Bey please and then second time speaker councelor", "start": 5000.12, "end": 5006.56}, {"text": "crutch councelor Bey thank you chair and through you uh", "start": 5006.56, "end": 5012.32}, {"text": "of quick comment um and and I'm just gonna kind of put my cards on the table", "start": 5012.32, "end": 5017.4}, {"text": "that completely agree with the words that counselor tson just offered and um", "start": 5017.4, "end": 5025}, {"text": "I'm I'm completely flabbergasted and just my head's spinning chair I really", "start": 5025, "end": 5032}, {"text": "don't I don't know how to offer a constructive comment on this it it", "start": 5032, "end": 5037.08}, {"text": "really seems futile um I'm I'm just I'll leave it at", "start": 5037.08, "end": 5043.6}, {"text": "that chair I'm incredibly incredibly Jarred uh as an outcome of of the", "start": 5043.6, "end": 5050.4}, {"text": "information provided at this meeting as to what our role will be moving forward", "start": 5050.4, "end": 5055.84}, {"text": "or consequently won't be moving forward and I think that's the most important", "start": 5055.84, "end": 5061.32}, {"text": "part any first time speakers councelor crit you have the floor now as", "start": 5061.88, "end": 5068.88}, {"text": "a second time thanks I'd like to try and take the temperature down from jarring to maybe", "start": 5068.88, "end": 5075.639}, {"text": "something else and and offer a couple of brief hope wrapup perspectives here what I", "start": 5075.639, "end": 5081.04}, {"text": "hear two anxieties are being expressed anxiety number one is people are worried about how they're going to communicate", "start": 5081.04, "end": 5086.159}, {"text": "with their residents about their decisions about the tax budget to that I say there are many ways", "start": 5086.159, "end": 5092.88}, {"text": "to communicate with your residents if if you need to be able to do that here at this table reflect on that there are", "start": 5092.88, "end": 5098.44}, {"text": "many ways to do it if you want to get together with your colleagues and hold a press conference on the budget go ahead and stand outside and do it", "start": 5098.44, "end": 5105.32}, {"text": "secondly I think that when we're talking about actually putting amendments on the floor that is the opportunity to do the", "start": 5105.32, "end": 5111.52}, {"text": "work so I think that we really need to make that clear here if you disagreed counselor tson or councelor B or anybody", "start": 5111.52, "end": 5118.199}, {"text": "else counc Jackson if you disagree with what was happening here what you'd say is okay I think that I'd like to be able", "start": 5118.199, "end": 5123.48}, {"text": "to put Amendment together together to get the budget from such a percent to such a percent I'd hope you just meet", "start": 5123.48, "end": 5129.32}, {"text": "with staff and say to them okay um what's that look like and they would say well every percent is worth between 12 and4 million or whatever it is and so to", "start": 5129.32, "end": 5135.92}, {"text": "get us down we'll need about $28 million in savings then you would sit with them and have a conversation and they would say you okay these are some areas here", "start": 5135.92, "end": 5141.8}, {"text": "where you might be able to find some savings right then you just put that in writing bring it here and we vote on it", "start": 5141.8, "end": 5148.44}, {"text": "so it just requires a more active role for us as counselors instead of us just saying no we don't want the budget or", "start": 5148.44, "end": 5154.8}, {"text": "just coming here and saying we need to sharpen our pencils we actually have to put it in writing what it is we're", "start": 5154.8, "end": 5159.92}, {"text": "actually proposing with the help of Staff who are absolutely happy to meet with you as far as I understand it and", "start": 5159.92, "end": 5165.6}, {"text": "bring them here for a vote so that we can directly engage with the budget", "start": 5165.6, "end": 5171.56}, {"text": "itself not just uh make comments about our disapproval of it so I think this", "start": 5171.56, "end": 5177.32}, {"text": "process makes complete sense is perfectly clear and does not take anyone's power away here 2third of this", "start": 5177.32, "end": 5183.119}, {"text": "body has the final say councelor Jackson for a second time", "start": 5183.119, "end": 5190.32}, {"text": "thanks budget chair Wilson with all du respect to the War II counselor um I don't think it's a better process at all", "start": 5190.32, "end": 5198.159}, {"text": "um the fact that I can't what I heard from the city solicitor basically it's a", "start": 5198.159, "end": 5203.88}, {"text": "passive adoption seriously I'm going to communicate to my constituents I had to", "start": 5203.88, "end": 5209.48}, {"text": "passively adopt the water rate budget because I didn't put any amendments forward in all my years here if I didn't", "start": 5209.48, "end": 5216.199}, {"text": "put Amendment forward I still had the ability the authority to vote yay or nay on a budget this is unbelievable what's", "start": 5216.199, "end": 5222.679}, {"text": "happened today and again this debate's happening six days after when some of you wanted to wrap things up last", "start": 5222.679, "end": 5230.4}, {"text": "Friday I'm telling you I agree with councelor tedison Bey there is a really", "start": 5230.4, "end": 5237.04}, {"text": "um there's really a lot left to be desired here in terms of this process and what we're learning today but we can", "start": 5237.04, "end": 5244.76}, {"text": "or can't do so I don't put an amendment forward Tom you have lost your chance to", "start": 5244.76, "end": 5250.6}, {"text": "even do a speech on the budget sorry you had your chance with an amendment", "start": 5250.6, "end": 5256.04}, {"text": "unbelievable if municipal government has changed that way and today is a quite the learning um quite the learning", "start": 5256.04, "end": 5262.44}, {"text": "moment for me budget chair Wilson thank you thank you counselor recognizing", "start": 5262.44, "end": 5269.32}, {"text": "mayor Horvath uh thanks very much I appreciate the conversation around the table I I think uh it's important for me", "start": 5269.32, "end": 5275.88}, {"text": "to indicate to everybody around the table that this is not something that was asked for or desired by any of us", "start": 5275.88, "end": 5283.56}, {"text": "this is provincial legislation that was passed by Premier Ford that we weren't", "start": 5283.56, "end": 5288.639}, {"text": "quite sure of how to implement it uh because regulations were not clear last time around and you may remember uh we", "start": 5288.639, "end": 5296.52}, {"text": "we weren't operating at full capacity uh back then when it comes to our ability", "start": 5296.52, "end": 5301.639}, {"text": "to discern the impact of the legis ation and the regulations on the procedural uh", "start": 5301.639, "end": 5307.92}, {"text": "implementation of our budget last time around we were not the only cities that had that happen so folks need to know", "start": 5307.92, "end": 5314.84}, {"text": "that everybody was scrambling trying to figure it out and different cities did different things but now we're here A", "start": 5314.84, "end": 5321.08}, {"text": "year later and we are the creatures of the province so it's not anybody in this", "start": 5321.08, "end": 5326.84}, {"text": "room's fault or desire to create upset around the table the legislation EX", "start": 5326.84, "end": 5334.119}, {"text": "exists the regulations exist I didn't ask for them as you all know we didn't", "start": 5334.119, "end": 5339.36}, {"text": "ask for them but they were put in place and as creatures of the province as we", "start": 5339.36, "end": 5344.52}, {"text": "all know we are we must follow provincial regulation and requirements and so I get a bit worried uh that", "start": 5344.52, "end": 5351.6}, {"text": "there's a sense that there's you know that there's something unto happening here because there is not what has", "start": 5351.6, "end": 5357.84}, {"text": "happened though is a couple of cities as uh GM sigar has said have", "start": 5357.84, "end": 5364.96}, {"text": "taken the lead in terms of being the first ones out of the gate to get their budgets done and so there's always", "start": 5364.96, "end": 5372.28}, {"text": "conversation as you know uh by all of the professionals that work for municipalities to figure out H like what", "start": 5372.28, "end": 5379.119}, {"text": "the path forward is that uh that makes that that complies with the legislation", "start": 5379.119, "end": 5384.84}, {"text": "and I suspect and I don't know for sure but those conversations have been ongoing and then what's happened is the", "start": 5384.84, "end": 5391.199}, {"text": "processes have played out uh at these other uh uh cities and we", "start": 5391.199, "end": 5398.199}, {"text": "are doing what the other cities who are under the same legislation that we're under are doing and so I mean I'm not", "start": 5398.199, "end": 5406.199}, {"text": "going to call a point of order but I do really want to caution people about suggesting that there might be something", "start": 5406.199, "end": 5413.08}, {"text": "untoward that's happened from last time you met and I wasn't even here last time", "start": 5413.08, "end": 5418.4}, {"text": "you met because I was hosting the I was welcoming the premier and Minister Pacini along with Minister lumon and and", "start": 5418.4, "end": 5426.32}, {"text": "uh MPP Skelly uh up at uh uh at the fire training center the uh The Joint", "start": 5426.32, "end": 5432.6}, {"text": "Training Center uh to talk about other legislation that they're passing to help firefighters so I regret that I wasn't", "start": 5432.6, "end": 5439.32}, {"text": "here then U but I wasn't but I just I want people to know this is not", "start": 5439.32, "end": 5445.159}, {"text": "nefarious this is a change that's driven by the provincial government and the", "start": 5445.159, "end": 5453.48}, {"text": "strong leg strong M legislation and and really I hear the frustration and I know", "start": 5453.48, "end": 5459.88}, {"text": "it's not the way we've always done things but it's not we can't just say we", "start": 5459.88, "end": 5465}, {"text": "we're not doing it that way uh we have to we have an obligation to follow the legislation what it does mean though and", "start": 5465, "end": 5472.52}, {"text": "I agree with what people have said there's an opportunity to do pretty much", "start": 5472.52, "end": 5477.6}, {"text": "everything that's been done in the past you can bring amendments forward you can work on those amendments then like", "start": 5477.6, "end": 5484.08}, {"text": "always the Amendments get debated by this body and some will pass and some", "start": 5484.08, "end": 5489.719}, {"text": "will not pass and then yes this is the key there is an extra step because of", "start": 5489.719, "end": 5496.8}, {"text": "strong mayor powers that requires me then to decide if the budget as amended by you", "start": 5496.8, "end": 5504.32}, {"text": "not by me by you but then I get to decide as strong mayor whether I want to veto any of those amendments and if I do", "start": 5504.32, "end": 5513.04}, {"text": "then you have a chance to overturn that veto now we all know that we've been through this process once before and I", "start": 5513.04, "end": 5519.36}, {"text": "don't want to you know take off any scabs but but it's the same process", "start": 5519.36, "end": 5524.48}, {"text": "actually that happened when it came to a decisions around housing and so I'm sorry counc Francis that I had to raise", "start": 5524.48, "end": 5531.119}, {"text": "this but I have to and so that's the process so if you think about it in that", "start": 5531.119, "end": 5536.239}, {"text": "way it's the same process that uh that require that that I was that I triggered let's put it that way but it but it's", "start": 5536.239, "end": 5542.8}, {"text": "the same process and so I'm I I'm kind of I I get it that people are frustrated", "start": 5542.8, "end": 5549.48}, {"text": "and that the the the process isn't something that folks necessarily um support but we but we we all have an", "start": 5549.48, "end": 5557.32}, {"text": "obligation to follow the provincial legislation and I think all of us regret that that's not something we were on top", "start": 5557.32, "end": 5564.04}, {"text": "of last time around when the legislation had just come forward in the regulations but we do have an obligation to to", "start": 5564.04, "end": 5570.8}, {"text": "follow the legislation which is what as I said some of uh the other cities have already uh done this time around and", "start": 5570.8, "end": 5578.48}, {"text": "didn't necessarily do it last time around either because they were like us trying to figure it all out so I I", "start": 5578.48, "end": 5583.88}, {"text": "wanted to I apologize for taking so much time I really didn't want to have to to kind of get into it but I thought it was", "start": 5583.88, "end": 5590.679}, {"text": "necessary as M for me to kind of explain to folks where how I see it uh having", "start": 5590.679, "end": 5595.88}, {"text": "unfold having uh how it unfolded for us and why we are where we are now and I", "start": 5595.88, "end": 5601.48}, {"text": "certainly do understand the world and the frustration that uh that people are expressing around the table", "start": 5601.48, "end": 5608.8}, {"text": "um we'll have to get through it and at the end of the day there will be a", "start": 5608.8, "end": 5614.52}, {"text": "budget thank you thank you uh councelor", "start": 5614.52, "end": 5622.28}, {"text": "Francis yeah thank you just want to make a quick comment here I just want to say this process sticks the strong Mar", "start": 5622.32, "end": 5629.159}, {"text": "powers are dangerous and undemocratic they should be repealed and we should let council do a job thank", "start": 5629.159, "end": 5636.239}, {"text": "you thank you um again uh this is a mandatory", "start": 5636.239, "end": 5643.52}, {"text": "regulation that all municipalities under 53022 must abide by thank you uh no", "start": 5643.52, "end": 5652.04}, {"text": "further speakers I believe we did have a mover in a seconder to receive the commun the communication item has been", "start": 5652.04, "end": 5658.36}, {"text": "duly moved and seconded could you please vote thank you", "start": 5658.36, "end": 5663.76}, {"text": "thumbs up from councelor Paul's thumbs up from councelor Nan and a thumbs up from me please mine's refreshing thank", "start": 5679.28, "end": 5686.719}, {"text": "you that carries 13 to one okay thank", "start": 5686.76, "end": 5692.119}, {"text": "you on to 5.1 which is the report I need a move any a secondary to put it on the", "start": 5692.119, "end": 5698.28}, {"text": "floor councelor cret councelor uh Wang thank you uh any", "start": 5698.28, "end": 5704.8}, {"text": "discussion on the report and if you could put yourself on this speakers list accordingly but I", "start": 5704.8, "end": 5711.32}, {"text": "will recognize councelor Jackson because I saw his uh his hand thanks budget", "start": 5711.32, "end": 5716.8}, {"text": "chair Wilson so again I apologize if this is being", "start": 5716.8, "end": 5722.4}, {"text": "repetitive what has been moved and seconded the report 5.1 which is the preliminary water Wastewater storm water", "start": 5722.4, "end": 5729.639}, {"text": "rate supported budget being on the floor what am I voting on am I voting on just", "start": 5729.639, "end": 5736.32}, {"text": "sending this as GM zaric said to December the 11th am I making a decision", "start": 5736.32, "end": 5742.36}, {"text": "today yay or nay I'm sorry that I'm not clear in light of the discussion I don't", "start": 5742.36, "end": 5747.44}, {"text": "know what the motion is meant to be then please help me thank you um", "start": 5747.44, "end": 5754.32}, {"text": "we're voting to consider the report but I'll look to either LC McCrae or uh solicitor Shield or GM zarck so in order", "start": 5754.32, "end": 5762.36}, {"text": "sorry through the chair in order to make amendments to what is be before you", "start": 5762.36, "end": 5767.48}, {"text": "which is is in order the report has to be put on the floor the report is on the floor if there are any amendments to be", "start": 5767.48, "end": 5773.119}, {"text": "made those can be made at this time if there are no amendments then we will take a vote that the report has been", "start": 5773.119, "end": 5780}, {"text": "considered by the general issues committee budget committee so through you budget chair Wilson to ELC McCrae", "start": 5780, "end": 5786.119}, {"text": "much appreciated LC McCrae so if there are no amendments then is my vote today", "start": 5786.119, "end": 5793.159}, {"text": "you said to be considered for 2025 which means that we'll go to December the 11 then where I", "start": 5793.159, "end": 5800.28}, {"text": "will have a final vote or if I'm not happy with the vote if I'm not happy with this process and the report today", "start": 5800.28, "end": 5808.36}, {"text": "of the 99.95% then I better vote against it now and I can do it again on December 11th I", "start": 5808.36, "end": 5815.32}, {"text": "need Clarity please LC McCrae so through the through the chair if you're not", "start": 5815.32, "end": 5820.639}, {"text": "happy with it my suggestion would be that you put forward an amendment to one of the recommendations in the report", "start": 5820.639, "end": 5827.719}, {"text": "then then committee would vote to either approve that Amendment or not then after", "start": 5827.719, "end": 5833.8}, {"text": "the amendments are made if there if there are amendments or if there are no amendments we will take the vote that the committee has considered it so the", "start": 5833.8, "end": 5840.8}, {"text": "the the report has been before you you are not not approving it you were just saying the votee has been before you the", "start": 5840.8, "end": 5847}, {"text": "the report has been before you thank you I know you're doing your very very best LC McCrae to help me and I appreciate it", "start": 5847, "end": 5854.32}, {"text": "this is so so strange um I may just uh if there's no amendments and I didn't", "start": 5854.32, "end": 5860.56}, {"text": "have any amendments prepared today other than I was going to uh have a separate vote on the storm water fee for April 26", "start": 5860.56, "end": 5867.04}, {"text": "but now that that's a moot point uh budget chair Wilson uh you know what just in principle I just might just say", "start": 5867.04, "end": 5873.56}, {"text": "no today because I still get a chance on December 11th uh to say something else", "start": 5873.56, "end": 5878.719}, {"text": "something different uh at the ultimate final decision thank you budget chair", "start": 5878.719, "end": 5884.199}, {"text": "Wilson councelor Dano thank you just just to be clear", "start": 5884.199, "end": 5890.28}, {"text": "there is no ultimate final decision um I'm sorry my", "start": 5890.28, "end": 5898.8}, {"text": "apologies no I I it's it's a big change and it took us a long long time and a", "start": 5898.8, "end": 5904.4}, {"text": "fairly substantial discussion behind the scenes to get our heads around it as well so", "start": 5904.4, "end": 5910.119}, {"text": "you know I totally understand um okay what I wanted to discuss was item L which is the the", "start": 5910.119, "end": 5918.599}, {"text": "proposed storm waterer uh sdu fee of uh", "start": 5918.599, "end": 5924.36}, {"text": "74 cents uh $270 annually um so I understand that that's", "start": 5924.36, "end": 5930.119}, {"text": "been struck and the reasons for that being struck however that doesn't this this issue of", "start": 5930.119, "end": 5938.4}, {"text": "what we're going to move forward with the storm water fee doesn't go away and we've already started discussions with", "start": 5938.4, "end": 5944.56}, {"text": "uh some of our anchor institutions to help them plan their business cases based on what the storm water fee is", "start": 5944.56, "end": 5951.119}, {"text": "going to be um because for example if if you are an institution that is has a lot", "start": 5951.119, "end": 5958.199}, {"text": "of hard surface that is going to be paying a significant storm water fee you have an opportunity to Implement", "start": 5958.199, "end": 5964.159}, {"text": "mitigation measures but you need to calculate how much you're going to invest on mitigation versus how much", "start": 5964.159, "end": 5970.52}, {"text": "your um your credits are going to be against the storm water fee that You' be paying in order to work out that", "start": 5970.52, "end": 5976.88}, {"text": "business case and this number is a critical part of our anchor institutions and Commercial institutions uh and", "start": 5976.88, "end": 5983.96}, {"text": "Commercial Partners uh to be able to figure out what they can do to mitigate storm water so we had talked a little", "start": 5983.96, "end": 5990.159}, {"text": "bit offline about a report back in January um on this issue since it's not in the", "start": 5990.159, "end": 5997.599}, {"text": "budget is it still necessary to bring Direction forward for staff to report back in January or staff can just do", "start": 5997.599, "end": 6005.28}, {"text": "that um under their delegated authority thank you it's a bit fuzzy because it's", "start": 6005.28, "end": 6011.08}, {"text": "not before us right now um but I think you're asking uh something that is not", "start": 6011.08, "end": 6018.56}, {"text": "uh for us to focus on but I will look to GM's gck for any", "start": 6018.56, "end": 6024.92}, {"text": "comment or director Winters through the chair um I would ask", "start": 6024.92, "end": 6030.84}, {"text": "if there could be a motion directing staff to report back on a with a report", "start": 6030.84, "end": 6037.04}, {"text": "that summarizes the changes since", "start": 6037.04, "end": 6043.119}, {"text": "2023 that uh result in the increase in", "start": 6043.119, "end": 6048.92}, {"text": "the single family unit and by providing that motion then staff", "start": 6048.92, "end": 6056.199}, {"text": "would report back summarizing it's principally uh a number of factors", "start": 6056.199, "end": 6062.76}, {"text": "capital is a primary factor the additional investments in storm water management as well as the credit", "start": 6062.76, "end": 6070.08}, {"text": "incentive program and then some administrative costs such as the billing", "start": 6070.08, "end": 6075.96}, {"text": "and just the administration of a storm water so that report would provide that level of detail so that committee and", "start": 6075.96, "end": 6083.36}, {"text": "and or sorry committee Council and the community would understand the factors", "start": 6083.36, "end": 6089.599}, {"text": "resulting in the the forecast increase in the single family unit thank you I", "start": 6089.599, "end": 6095.56}, {"text": "think I understand the context but I I do apologize I do if In fairness want to", "start": 6095.56, "end": 6101.28}, {"text": "uh look to LC McCrae because I need some procedural Insight because there's no", "start": 6101.28, "end": 6107.599}, {"text": "there's no l upon which to um trigger a motion so proceed Le LC McCrae would we", "start": 6107.599, "end": 6115.719}, {"text": "do that at the conclusion of this agenda outside of uh 51 through the chair uh", "start": 6115.719, "end": 6122.32}, {"text": "through the deputy mayor uh through the chair absolutely we can we can uh do that as a motion after we deal with uh", "start": 6122.32, "end": 6129.679}, {"text": "the report that's not a problem thank you so much for that uh counselor I hope I you don't mind me seeking that clarity", "start": 6129.679, "end": 6136.44}, {"text": "as chair I I have language for that already prepared um I will forward that to the clerk and to the rest of", "start": 6136.44, "end": 6143.56}, {"text": "committee and bring that forward under motions thank you appreciate your understanding thank", "start": 6143.56, "end": 6149.679}, {"text": "you councelor pause thank you and through the chair", "start": 6149.679, "end": 6157.04}, {"text": "can I ask councelor Dano a question he said something um what behind the scene", "start": 6157.04, "end": 6164.04}, {"text": "discussion did you have that I wasn't aware of because this morning I'm done", "start": 6164.04, "end": 6170.159}, {"text": "founded I just shocked of the process so I just want to know what behind", "start": 6170.159, "end": 6176}, {"text": "scenes discussion did you have before this morning my apology I don't really think", "start": 6176, "end": 6183.239}, {"text": "that is in order right now we have 51 on the table your questions comments or", "start": 6183.239, "end": 6188.76}, {"text": "amendments are per the report thank you I find it kind of strange that I", "start": 6188.76, "end": 6196.32}, {"text": "didn't know and most of us I think didn't know about it or some of them do because of of what the line of question", "start": 6196.32, "end": 6203.239}, {"text": "it's been today it's been a little bit okay Paul if you would like to assume in", "start": 6203.239, "end": 6208.599}, {"text": "a future year the role of chair and vice chair that that that will be your duty in which well I never get the privilege", "start": 6208.599, "end": 6214.76}, {"text": "of doing it because never mind thank you very yeah I I just respectfully uh", "start": 6214.76, "end": 6223}, {"text": "councelor Pauls I think the suggestion was that there was some secret meeting", "start": 6223, "end": 6228.32}, {"text": "it is the obligation of the chair and the vice chair to to um ensure that we", "start": 6228.32, "end": 6237.52}, {"text": "are instructing a process that is informed by uh the legislation and that", "start": 6237.52, "end": 6245.679}, {"text": "was the conversation the extent of it thank you thank you and thank you for", "start": 6245.679, "end": 6250.719}, {"text": "that that's why I wanted to know and if that's what you did that's fine but the", "start": 6250.719, "end": 6256.52}, {"text": "way councelor Dano made it sound was like they had a conversation so that's", "start": 6256.52, "end": 6262.199}, {"text": "what was my question question so thank you for that you're you're very welcome thank", "start": 6262.199, "end": 6267.28}, {"text": "you um are there any further speakers on", "start": 6267.28, "end": 6272.88}, {"text": "this seeing none okay uh on five1 it has been duly", "start": 6272.96, "end": 6280.4}, {"text": "moved and seconded we require an electronic vote uh the to ensure that", "start": 6280.4, "end": 6286.44}, {"text": "the report has been considered", "start": 6286.44, "end": 6290.599}, {"text": "oh I'm going to interrupt that vote if you don't mind I didn't see you", "start": 6301.08, "end": 6307.76}, {"text": "councelor Wang and I apologize I'm very sorry chair it was one of those as I was Voting I was", "start": 6307.76, "end": 6313.52}, {"text": "thinking and reflecting um as we are considering this report today it is", "start": 6313.52, "end": 6320.56}, {"text": "going to Council on December the 11th to be essentially passively approved at", "start": 6320.56, "end": 6328.119}, {"text": "that time are we allowed to make amendments at council at that time or", "start": 6328.119, "end": 6334.56}, {"text": "no I'll ask solicor Shields or else if solicor Shield would or GM Zar could", "start": 6334.56, "end": 6340.8}, {"text": "respond to that thank you solic Shields good morning did you", "start": 6340.8, "end": 6347.679}, {"text": "hear the question the chair yes I did um so", "start": 6347.679, "end": 6353.92}, {"text": "the through the chair the answer is correct um the process that we have at", "start": 6353.92, "end": 6360.159}, {"text": "this city is a standing committee process where things go through standing committees and then goes to council for", "start": 6360.159, "end": 6367.4}, {"text": "approval final approval um the legislation is clear that council is the one that makes the Amendments um in the", "start": 6367.4, "end": 6374.76}, {"text": "30-day window period so yes um at Council amendments could be made to the", "start": 6374.76, "end": 6380.36}, {"text": "actual budget um if there are no amendments at this stage that carry forward to to that um December 11th", "start": 6380.36, "end": 6388.36}, {"text": "meeting so just to be clear um even though we have we have considered it at", "start": 6388.36, "end": 6395.88}, {"text": "after today we have considered it we could potentially still make amendments at Council on December the 11th LC", "start": 6395.88, "end": 6404.04}, {"text": "McCrae so through this chair just like any report at any standing committee meeting you would be it's before Council", "start": 6404.04, "end": 6410.32}, {"text": "for final final viewing okay okay and then at the end of the day then it is", "start": 6410.32, "end": 6415.8}, {"text": "passively essentially it's approved if there are no amendments I'm just trying", "start": 6415.8, "end": 6420.88}, {"text": "to get clear on the language that's all through the chair I can answer that", "start": 6420.88, "end": 6427.32}, {"text": "and in your answer if you could just underscore the timelines Lister shields for the body again please and thank", "start": 6427.32, "end": 6434.159}, {"text": "you thank you so again um the budget is", "start": 6434.159, "end": 6440.32}, {"text": "presented to the members of council and the public at that stage which was the", "start": 6440.32, "end": 6445.76}, {"text": "November 22nd date there is a 30-day clock that allows for amendments to be", "start": 6445.76, "end": 6451.639}, {"text": "made um by Council Council can shorten that time as well if you choose to do so", "start": 6451.639, "end": 6457.08}, {"text": "so it doesn't have to be 30 days um at the final stage whether there are", "start": 6457.08, "end": 6462.8}, {"text": "amendments no amendments and all of that um it is appro it is as you said passively adopted or adopted by Council", "start": 6462.8, "end": 6470.36}, {"text": "um adopted by the municipality so you will have an opportunity at December", "start": 6470.36, "end": 6476.48}, {"text": "11th meeting to continue to make changes amendments to the to the to the tax", "start": 6476.48, "end": 6482.56}, {"text": "supported Bud to the rate supported budget as presented okay thank you thank you", "start": 6482.56, "end": 6489.48}, {"text": "chair okay uh mayor horbath just I just want to we're all trying to figure our", "start": 6490, "end": 6496.56}, {"text": "way through this and the timelines and all the pieces and I just want if I can through", "start": 6496.56, "end": 6502.239}, {"text": "you ask GM zaric when it comes to the all of the trigger points that take", "start": 6502.239, "end": 6508.679}, {"text": "place once Amendments have been tabled they are other timelines that get", "start": 6508.679, "end": 6514.599}, {"text": "triggered and so I think it's really important to understand what that looks like and how it impacts the water rate", "start": 6514.599, "end": 6524.28}, {"text": "um uh drop dead date if you will I hate to use that word but uh that phrase uh", "start": 6524.28, "end": 6529.599}, {"text": "for Electra could you please through you chair can we have that happen please absolutely so through the chair", "start": 6529.599, "end": 6536.159}, {"text": "everything solicitor Shield said was correct I'll just clarify we will need", "start": 6536.159, "end": 6542.28}, {"text": "Council to adopt a shorter period than the 30 days in order", "start": 6542.28, "end": 6550.32}, {"text": "for uh the budget to proceed on December the 11th to my earlier comment that may", "start": 6550.32, "end": 6557.679}, {"text": "be December 4th seeking the approval from Council to adopt a lesser than 30", "start": 6557.679, "end": 6566.239}, {"text": "days it I I believe it works out to 21 or 22 days to align with December 11th", "start": 6566.239, "end": 6572.48}, {"text": "so just that additional item of clarification and the reason for that is", "start": 6572.48, "end": 6578.679}, {"text": "in order for us to have the rates in effect on January 1st and the monetary impact of not doing", "start": 6578.679, "end": 6587.119}, {"text": "so if you could reiterate through the chair just just assuming a one- month delay would represent uh approximately", "start": 6587.119, "end": 6594.04}, {"text": "$2.8 million in foron Revenue thank you sorry councelor", "start": 6594.04, "end": 6599.4}, {"text": "Wang you're and everybody's good okay thank you I don't have anybody else on", "start": 6599.4, "end": 6605.199}, {"text": "my speakers on the speakers list um Elsie McCrae is giving me the the eye so", "start": 6605.199, "end": 6612.84}, {"text": "through the chair I didn't close the vote because I didn't know how long it was everyone's voted so if everyone's fine I will close the vote", "start": 6612.84, "end": 6619.76}, {"text": "then yes okay great thank you the court correct", "start": 6619.76, "end": 6627.239}, {"text": "yes thank you that carries 8 to six", "start": 6630.04, "end": 6637.119}, {"text": "okay um we're oh yes I was going to go to", "start": 6637.119, "end": 6643.48}, {"text": "adjournment but we have a motion uh that we heard about earlier so I'll recognize councelor Dano thank", "start": 6643.48, "end": 6650.36}, {"text": "you thank you uh chair is moved by myself second by counselor", "start": 6650.36, "end": 6655.76}, {"text": "casar um that staff report to GIC in q1 of 2025 with an analysis summarizing the", "start": 6655.76, "end": 6662.719}, {"text": "factors contributing to the 2026 forecast changes in the storm water fee", "start": 6662.719, "end": 6667.76}, {"text": "to $ 27010 perom and that staff identify any", "start": 6667.76, "end": 6674}, {"text": "options that would further support the forecast stormwater management Investments to realize a largely Revenue", "start": 6674, "end": 6679.76}, {"text": "neutral transition to a storm waterer structure and just to to speak to this", "start": 6679.76, "end": 6685.36}, {"text": "very briefly um I mentioned in my my initial comments that we're already starting to work with some of the city's", "start": 6685.36, "end": 6691.96}, {"text": "anchor institutions um educational institutions hospitals and such that would be", "start": 6691.96, "end": 6698.719}, {"text": "impacted by the storm water fee and also uh commercial property owners that own", "start": 6698.719, "end": 6704.36}, {"text": "large commercial properties industrial properties that are looking to make investments in mitigation measures and I", "start": 6704.36, "end": 6711.639}, {"text": "think that is a re really good news part of the storm water um program is that we", "start": 6711.639, "end": 6718.679}, {"text": "are already seeing very large impervious owners that have large impervious astral", "start": 6718.679, "end": 6725}, {"text": "surfaces wanting to make investments in mitigation wanting to reduce their", "start": 6725, "end": 6730.119}, {"text": "impact on uh on storm water runoff that of course directly led to or leads on a", "start": 6730.119, "end": 6736.56}, {"text": "regular basis uh to untreated sewage entering the harbor and and Hamilton's waterways", "start": 6736.56, "end": 6742.88}, {"text": "um but in order to for them to move forward with their business case", "start": 6742.88, "end": 6748.04}, {"text": "justification for those mitigation measures they need to have a rate at", "start": 6748.04, "end": 6753.4}, {"text": "which they would otherwise be paying in order to calculate what their uh storm", "start": 6753.4, "end": 6758.8}, {"text": "water credits would be and then they can calculate forward the cost of the mitigation measures and and make that", "start": 6758.8, "end": 6764.88}, {"text": "business case so this this rate is really important um in order for for our", "start": 6764.88, "end": 6771.52}, {"text": "partners and and Commercial institutions and such uh to be able to make those Investments which is is very good news", "start": 6771.52, "end": 6779.159}, {"text": "um and also secondly that", "start": 6779.159, "end": 6783.8}, {"text": "um that this was always intended to be Revenue neutral for residential", "start": 6784.84, "end": 6791.96}, {"text": "taxpayers so the portion of the storm Mar that was previously funded through", "start": 6791.96, "end": 6797.159}, {"text": "the water bill and a portion through taxes is is coming off the water bill", "start": 6797.159, "end": 6802.52}, {"text": "and it was always intended that it would be as close to revenue neutral for that residential taxpayer as possible and", "start": 6802.52, "end": 6809.04}, {"text": "that some of those shifts of storm water expenses that we are facing as a", "start": 6809.04, "end": 6814.44}, {"text": "municipality are shifted to those large commercial properties large institutional properties that have uh", "start": 6814.44, "end": 6820.56}, {"text": "significant impervious ashphalt areas so I think it's it's really important to keep with the intention of the initial", "start": 6820.56, "end": 6828}, {"text": "storm water program um to identify any options that there are to remain as", "start": 6828, "end": 6833.96}, {"text": "Revenue neutral as possible for that residential rate pair so this direction", "start": 6833.96, "end": 6839.119}, {"text": "will I think address both of those it will um provide some clarity in terms of", "start": 6839.119, "end": 6844.96}, {"text": "what the actual rate will be and identify any opportunities that there may be to to bring that rate down to", "start": 6844.96, "end": 6851.599}, {"text": "make sure that it is as close to revenue neutral as possible thank you thank you uh on the motion I have", "start": 6851.599, "end": 6860.4}, {"text": "councelor Jackson followed by councelor and then councelor BD councelor Jackson", "start": 6860.4, "end": 6865.8}, {"text": "thanks budget chair Wilson I'll be voting against the motion and you know what um so respectfully to councelor", "start": 6865.8, "end": 6871.599}, {"text": "Dano because I know the original Concept in the last term of council where him and I served", "start": 6871.599, "end": 6877.599}, {"text": "together I know his advocacy was and I supported it to", "start": 6877.599, "end": 6883.32}, {"text": "pursue the fact of the large parking lots the malls the impermeable surfaces", "start": 6883.32, "end": 6890.36}, {"text": "of the Meadowlands East Gate Square lime Bridge Mall go after those large massive", "start": 6890.36, "end": 6896.84}, {"text": "properties that need to pay more through a storm water fee IE Rain Tax sadly", "start": 6896.84, "end": 6903}, {"text": "unfortunately June of last year when a a vote was done and to some of my colleagues they tried to get deferrals", "start": 6903, "end": 6909.44}, {"text": "to get the agricultural rural community to get some input but it was put through on in June of last year it morphed into", "start": 6909.44, "end": 6917.88}, {"text": "now the storm water fee being applied to everyday", "start": 6917.88, "end": 6923.04}, {"text": "homeowners with their order please order someone uh C", "start": 6923.04, "end": 6930.119}, {"text": "Jackson has the floor thanks budget chair Wilson um it has morphed into now", "start": 6930.119, "end": 6935.48}, {"text": "um applying this fee to an everyday family with a 20 30 40 50ft", "start": 6935.48, "end": 6942.199}, {"text": "driveway uh $170 initial amount and was assured that it' be cost neutral and", "start": 6942.199, "end": 6948.96}, {"text": "applied to the agricultural rural community don't worry we said to them whatever you're going to be charged you'll get credits for it you'll", "start": 6948.96, "end": 6955.88}, {"text": "offset what we heard last week last Friday was now the 170 has grown to", "start": 6955.88, "end": 6963.96}, {"text": "potentially an increase up to $270 who knows if that's an upset limit that", "start": 6963.96, "end": 6969.239}, {"text": "could even go beyond that we're not sure but we'll take staff they they have reported on that last Friday and I wrote", "start": 6969.239, "end": 6976.48}, {"text": "down from general manager zerck in all his sincerity and honesty as of last", "start": 6976.48, "end": 6982.44}, {"text": "Friday budget chair Wilson this will no longer be cost neutral the offset was a", "start": 6982.44, "end": 6987.84}, {"text": "hope for but it no longer will be cost neutral this policy this is not good", "start": 6987.84, "end": 6994.239}, {"text": "public policy of how the storm water fee Rain Tax has morphed into something well", "start": 6994.239, "end": 7000.96}, {"text": "beyond what I had ever imagined so I'm just going to vote against it today thanks budget chair", "start": 7000.96, "end": 7007.119}, {"text": "Wilson councelor Nan", "start": 7007.119, "end": 7011.52}, {"text": "thank you budget chair uh appreciating the motion uh just given the process Clarity from the memo discussed in the", "start": 7012.4, "end": 7019.56}, {"text": "meeting this morning where if I understood it correctly catching up in", "start": 7019.56, "end": 7025.04}, {"text": "the meeting as I had to run out this morning to tend to different city business on behalf of the mayor um the", "start": 7025.04, "end": 7030.88}, {"text": "legislation requires removing any reference to Future year budget items", "start": 7030.88, "end": 7036.44}, {"text": "within the 2025 rate correct yes cancer", "start": 7036.44, "end": 7042.679}, {"text": "thank you uh so this direction you know thank you councelor Jackson or sorry", "start": 7042.679, "end": 7047.84}, {"text": "councelor Dano and uh councelor cassar because it really does enable the city", "start": 7047.84, "end": 7053.239}, {"text": "to continue the work that we need to do in order to um make sure that the storm", "start": 7053.239, "end": 7058.36}, {"text": "water fee payment calculations the incentive calculations Etc that work can", "start": 7058.36, "end": 7063.92}, {"text": "continue but the primary reason that this uh overall strategy of a storm", "start": 7063.92, "end": 7069.639}, {"text": "water fee um being a good public policy so counter to my colleague's uh previous", "start": 7069.639, "end": 7075.8}, {"text": "point is that we have determined very clearly at the city of Hamilton that we", "start": 7075.8, "end": 7082.159}, {"text": "need to move to a needs-based budget when it comes to water and being able to", "start": 7082.159, "end": 7088.52}, {"text": "take care of the infrastructure to invest in the infrastructure and most importantly make sure that our ability", "start": 7088.52, "end": 7095.159}, {"text": "to do so is sustainable moving forward so it is um I know it's a tremendous", "start": 7095.159, "end": 7101.44}, {"text": "change from the way things have been done but a storm water fee is exactly", "start": 7101.44, "end": 7106.92}, {"text": "the direction municipalities across Ontario and across the country are having to go in order to be responsive", "start": 7106.92, "end": 7114.96}, {"text": "and responsible to what it actually takes to manage storm water it is a", "start": 7114.96, "end": 7120.4}, {"text": "municipal standard that is being reviewed and has been studied extensively uh a lot of evidence-based", "start": 7120.4, "end": 7127.159}, {"text": "research that's been going into this as municipalities are wrapping their heads around how to take care of this work", "start": 7127.159, "end": 7132.32}, {"text": "that we're critically responsible for um and that you know municipalities have", "start": 7132.32, "end": 7137.52}, {"text": "the ability to um Direct in terms of uh doing so in", "start": 7137.52, "end": 7143.48}, {"text": "a way that is needs-based um so both the Federation of Canadian municipalities", "start": 7143.48, "end": 7149.84}, {"text": "Amo uh have enabled a lot of research and provided guidance to municipalities", "start": 7149.84, "end": 7155.639}, {"text": "around how to go about approaching uh a storm water fee so appreciating the the", "start": 7155.639, "end": 7160.84}, {"text": "amendment and support it thank you councelor", "start": 7160.84, "end": 7167.04}, {"text": "BD thank thank you chair and through you I'm wondering if I", "start": 7167.04, "end": 7172.159}, {"text": "might um give a summary or what I believe is a summary of the motion and", "start": 7172.159, "end": 7179.36}, {"text": "ask that the Mover just confirm if if in my own words I have it correct so", "start": 7179.36, "end": 7184.679}, {"text": "through you chair the motion is asking for information to come back to this", "start": 7184.679, "end": 7189.92}, {"text": "body and there's basically two components one would allow uh information to come back in a manner", "start": 7189.92, "end": 7196.719}, {"text": "that would give the business community that will be impacted by this uh a", "start": 7196.719, "end": 7202.56}, {"text": "little bit of Runway to put together uh some form of a", "start": 7202.56, "end": 7207.8}, {"text": "business plan so that they can properly make adjustments and prepare for the implementation of this in 2026 that's", "start": 7207.8, "end": 7215}, {"text": "one part the second part being a continuing narrative since the beginning", "start": 7215, "end": 7221.239}, {"text": "of this convers ation that residential rate payers would", "start": 7221.239, "end": 7227.76}, {"text": "see essentially Net Zero impact on their Bild and that staff report back in a", "start": 7227.76, "end": 7234.679}, {"text": "manner that would um try", "start": 7234.679, "end": 7239.92}, {"text": "to make this narrative continue to the best of our ability that we get as close", "start": 7239.92, "end": 7246.719}, {"text": "to Net Zero impact on residential as possible if I could just get clarity that I have that correctly", "start": 7246.719, "end": 7253.28}, {"text": "summarized chair I'll recognize the Mover councelor Dano yes it's exactly", "start": 7253.28, "end": 7260.84}, {"text": "correct okay still the floor counc you still have the floor thank thank you chair um my knee-jerk reaction chair was", "start": 7260.84, "end": 7268.119}, {"text": "to vote against this but I'm going to support and I'm going to tell you why um", "start": 7268.119, "end": 7273.76}, {"text": "number one when it comes to the business Community myself being a business owner", "start": 7273.76, "end": 7279.28}, {"text": "um we start planning these things well well before the implementation so giving", "start": 7279.28, "end": 7284.36}, {"text": "Runway to the business Community to engage in the proper planning for this", "start": 7284.36, "end": 7289.92}, {"text": "uh is prudent I know for a fact that in Stony Creek the business Community has reached out uh for this information", "start": 7289.92, "end": 7297.4}, {"text": "through the Chamber of Commerce and other means uh they are eagerly awaiting good data to be able to prepare", "start": 7297.4, "end": 7304.199}, {"text": "for the implementation of this in 20126 it would be I'd be voting against my community if I didn't support this so I", "start": 7304.199, "end": 7312.04}, {"text": "to support this the second piece is The Narrative of Net Zero", "start": 7312.04, "end": 7319.56}, {"text": "and um The Net Zero impact that's been a a narrative that uh I've been using to", "start": 7319.56, "end": 7326.159}, {"text": "explain this to residential uh rate payers in the community and feel very strongly about", "start": 7326.159, "end": 7332.48}, {"text": "that and there'd be certainly a lot of egg on my face if I wasn't able to turn around and and continue to deliver that", "start": 7332.48, "end": 7339.079}, {"text": "message after having uh engaged in in communication with my residents um over", "start": 7339.079, "end": 7345.119}, {"text": "a long period of time I still believe this should be and I hope that it will", "start": 7345.119, "end": 7350.48}, {"text": "be and I would continue to vote in a manner that would allow this to be a net zero for residential rate payers uh so", "start": 7350.48, "end": 7356.96}, {"text": "on that chair I'm going to support the uh the motion that's before us thank you and before I recognize the", "start": 7356.96, "end": 7364.599}, {"text": "next two uh Representatives I just want folks to know I'm not sure what you're seeing at home if you're seeing a a", "start": 7364.599, "end": 7371.84}, {"text": "turquoise screen nope you can't see it okay some we are having a bit of WebEx issue here counselor Alex", "start": 7371.84, "end": 7379.76}, {"text": "Wilson uh thank you through you chair I", "start": 7379.76, "end": 7386.28}, {"text": "think my understanding of the information and getting here is just a little different than what's been shared so I'm just going to share my", "start": 7386.48, "end": 7392.119}, {"text": "understanding of how we got here we uh move forward with a storm water fee", "start": 7392.119, "end": 7397.36}, {"text": "of that $170 and I thought that when that was presented that was very clearly based on on the information of our", "start": 7397.36, "end": 7403.48}, {"text": "current spend at the time with a acknowledgement that we had EAS other studies coming back in the zero to kind", "start": 7403.48, "end": 7410.36}, {"text": "of threeyear period that could potentially add work to the program and so that was a point in time 170 number", "start": 7410.36, "end": 7416.8}, {"text": "based on the capital plan that existed then when some of those studies came back we are presented with the results", "start": 7416.8, "end": 7423}, {"text": "of those studies recommendations for future works we voted to put those things", "start": 7423, "end": 7429.28}, {"text": "there we then also had the ones that number there was another caveat to that 170 number based on the how the", "start": 7429.28, "end": 7435.52}, {"text": "exemption program was changed we as Council I was supportive of this change i i v help move that forward to exempt", "start": 7435.52, "end": 7442.239}, {"text": "certain agricultural properties and move forward with a further reduction that money had to balance from", "start": 7442.239, "end": 7449.28}, {"text": "somewhere I just want to be very clear chair that from my perspective at every", "start": 7449.28, "end": 7456}, {"text": "point in time staff have been clear about what the assumptions were based on what information was forthcoming that", "start": 7456, "end": 7461.44}, {"text": "might change those assumptions um and while it's deeply unfortunate of course that costs go up I", "start": 7461.44, "end": 7468}, {"text": "don't feel blindsided at this moment in time um as I made the decisions to put those information um put those pieces in", "start": 7468, "end": 7475.32}, {"text": "this budget and this is the impact that I was told might happen by doing those votes so just wanted to share", "start": 7475.32, "end": 7482.32}, {"text": "that councel CER thank you chair um appreciate the comments from both", "start": 7482.36, "end": 7489}, {"text": "Council Bey and Council Alex Wilson because we're not debating the policy the policy is was decided in 2023 so", "start": 7489, "end": 7495.079}, {"text": "just a kind of course correct here so two things and one of them will be a question for GM Zar um just as was", "start": 7495.079, "end": 7501.96}, {"text": "pointed out a moment ago this is an information report to bring back information that is going to be helpful for the community including businesses", "start": 7501.96, "end": 7508.559}, {"text": "so if you choose to vote against that just do that with eyes wide open secondly there's been terms used uh cost", "start": 7508.559, "end": 7516.96}, {"text": "neutral Net Zero Revenue neutral about this policy I just my question is to GM zarrick could you please remind the", "start": 7516.96, "end": 7523.4}, {"text": "committee um what what the proper term is here and what the goal was because I think there's some misunderstanding uh", "start": 7523.4, "end": 7530.079}, {"text": "because there's different terms being used and I think it would be a good refresher on the difference between revenue neutral cost neutral uh Net Zero", "start": 7530.079, "end": 7537.52}, {"text": "and what this the intention actually was through you chair JM zeric through the", "start": 7537.52, "end": 7543.52}, {"text": "chair um my understanding of the intent of the motion is for Offa to bring back", "start": 7543.52, "end": 7548.719}, {"text": "as a gentle reminder some of the information that's already be gone to committee been received to committee", "start": 7548.719, "end": 7554.84}, {"text": "with respect to the investments in the storm water program and the impact that is having on the forecasted rates uh", "start": 7554.84, "end": 7562.239}, {"text": "projected for 2026 so uh a bit of Education with respect to where we were", "start": 7562.239, "end": 7568.679}, {"text": "in 2023 where we're heading in 2026 not new content this is principally just", "start": 7568.679, "end": 7574.8}, {"text": "reminders of information that's presented with respect to the the uh", "start": 7574.8, "end": 7581.079}, {"text": "Revenue neutrality of it you know we would report in terms of the global program and then we understood there", "start": 7581.079, "end": 7588}, {"text": "were shifts and we presented to committee and Council some of the shifts across the various sectors that would be", "start": 7588, "end": 7594.44}, {"text": "information we offset we staff made recommendations to offset after", "start": 7594.44, "end": 7599.639}, {"text": "consultation and that is the green credits and and some of the harbor credits so again the intent is not to", "start": 7599.639, "end": 7607.32}, {"text": "create new information more so to remind committee where we've been over the last", "start": 7607.32, "end": 7613.04}, {"text": "two years and uh as well just some of the financing decisions that were made", "start": 7613.04, "end": 7619.32}, {"text": "with respect to funds to reserve from reserves that affect the overall Global", "start": 7619.32, "end": 7626.159}, {"text": "uh Revenue neutrality uh just so the committee understands how those factors contribute to", "start": 7626.159, "end": 7633.079}, {"text": "that thank you chair and just to to summarize um I think the key term I heard from GM zerck was the goal was to", "start": 7633.079, "end": 7639.84}, {"text": "be Revenue neutral in terms of Revenue to the city and that that will be further explained and Council or committee will be reminded if this", "start": 7639.84, "end": 7646.4}, {"text": "motion passes in a report in January thank you thank you there's no further", "start": 7646.4, "end": 7652.639}, {"text": "speakers uh oh beg your pardon councelor um councelor MCM yeah first uh thanks", "start": 7652.639, "end": 7659.079}, {"text": "chair first a bit of an apology I feel terribly bad about missing the meeting Friday we were burying a brother and uh", "start": 7659.079, "end": 7667.52}, {"text": "today I had to have some emergency dental surgery so I I I just beg your forgiveness for that I", "start": 7667.52, "end": 7674.639}, {"text": "mean some things are out of our control um but I I do want to explain I don't make a habit of skipping important", "start": 7674.639, "end": 7681.32}, {"text": "issues uh I absolutely understand there's no uh apology necessary okay", "start": 7681.32, "end": 7688.04}, {"text": "than I appreciate that I I just wanted to put that on the record Brave I wanted to Brave putting that on the record it's", "start": 7688.04, "end": 7694.88}, {"text": "not easy to talk about um just on this issue I let me just", "start": 7694.88, "end": 7701.559}, {"text": "rearticulate some uh uh concerns I have I'm I'm I'm for moving forward I'm a a", "start": 7701.559, "end": 7707.76}, {"text": "big fan of keeping clean drinkable water as you know water is our most precious", "start": 7707.76, "end": 7712.8}, {"text": "resource on the face of the Earth we need to Steward it with h incredible", "start": 7712.8, "end": 7718.639}, {"text": "care um we do also however have to balance that with seeming to be", "start": 7718.639, "end": 7724.8}, {"text": "reasonable uh in the constituency when we make commitments to people um I I was", "start": 7724.8, "end": 7730.96}, {"text": "uh as were some of my uh our source or not", "start": 7730.96, "end": 7736.28}, {"text": "my our rural colleagues quite concerned about some of the uh implications of um", "start": 7736.28, "end": 7743.239}, {"text": "of some of the fees and and and I acknowledge we made some tremendous", "start": 7743.239, "end": 7748.32}, {"text": "uh um movement on that which I'm deeply appreciative of my concern biggest", "start": 7748.32, "end": 7754.84}, {"text": "concern all along has been around around the the household charge uh and I know", "start": 7754.84, "end": 7761.079}, {"text": "there was is a consideration initially that uh with the increase in the overall water rate that uh that would uh would", "start": 7761.079, "end": 7769.84}, {"text": "provide an incentive to move to a Ned zero when when I hear and uh and talk to", "start": 7769.84, "end": 7778.4}, {"text": "colleagues between Friday and today and those moments that I've had um about the", "start": 7778.4, "end": 7784.8}, {"text": "escalation on the per unit issue uh particularly referencing uh folks in in", "start": 7784.8, "end": 7792.079}, {"text": "the rural part of our U rural urban rural places where there's there on", "start": 7792.079, "end": 7798.079}, {"text": "septic tanks and Wells and there's no sort of water water system I get very very concerned about the uh uh", "start": 7798.079, "end": 7807.679}, {"text": "the the fairness and equity and simplicity of that um uh which were our", "start": 7807.679, "end": 7814.48}, {"text": "initial goals the the whole idea of fairness I I I I continue to struggle", "start": 7814.48, "end": 7820.8}, {"text": "with that um I I I don't want to see us go to a um", "start": 7820.8, "end": 7827.28}, {"text": "to what will be perceived by some was a a potential betrayal I think", "start": 7827.28, "end": 7834.28}, {"text": "CI touched on it on pant um you know some of the comments we've made and", "start": 7834.28, "end": 7841.28}, {"text": "commitments we made to our constituents um uh on this issue and it's it's not", "start": 7841.28, "end": 7846.8}, {"text": "like having missed the meeting I've missed the issue I mean the issue is pretty pretty alive so it's just on the", "start": 7846.8, "end": 7852}, {"text": "on the motion not the policy yeah so I I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm concerned about", "start": 7852, "end": 7857.84}, {"text": "opening this up again um I I think we traveled a fair distance and uh arrived", "start": 7857.84, "end": 7864.239}, {"text": "at what was arguably a workable", "start": 7864.239, "end": 7869.28}, {"text": "compromise I'm not sure we're heading there now and that concerns me", "start": 7869.28, "end": 7874.679}, {"text": "thanks okay just to be sure it's an information report that would be coming forward okay I don't have any further", "start": 7875.159, "end": 7881.599}, {"text": "speakers on the list so the motion has been duly moved and seconded and it's before", "start": 7881.599, "end": 7888.159}, {"text": "thank you that carries 10 to4 um I need a a motion to adjourn it's", "start": 7915.04, "end": 7923.119}, {"text": "moved by councelor Wang and it is seconded by councelor crutch thumbs up from councelor", "start": 7923.119, "end": 7931.04}, {"text": "Pauls if I can say in closing I uh appreciate uh the morning and the", "start": 7934.88, "end": 7942}, {"text": "questions seeking Clarity um and uh the expressed value", "start": 7942, "end": 7947.679}, {"text": "that you have given to staff and their integrity and again uh as your chair I", "start": 7947.679, "end": 7954}, {"text": "was just seeking to ensure that we were working in line with the regulation that", "start": 7954, "end": 7959.44}, {"text": "is set out for us which we must abide by thanks for your time and I hope you have a lovely day 14 to zero", "start": 7959.44, "end": 7968.92}]