[{"text": "e", "start": 0, "end": 3}, {"text": "sound check 1 2 3 4 sound check 1 2 3", "start": 38.32, "end": 44.239}, {"text": "4", "start": 58.92, "end": 61.92}, {"text": "e", "start": 88.92, "end": 91.92}, {"text": "e", "start": 118.84, "end": 121.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 148.84, "end": 151.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 178.84, "end": 181.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 208.76, "end": 211.76}, {"text": "e", "start": 238.72, "end": 241.72}, {"text": "e", "start": 268.72, "end": 271.72}, {"text": "e", "start": 298.639, "end": 301.639}, {"text": "e", "start": 328.639, "end": 331.639}, {"text": "e e", "start": 358.639, "end": 362.639}, {"text": "okay so uh we are going to um get started I think we're live as we're", "start": 407.08, "end": 412.36}, {"text": "already live so that's great um welcome back everyone uh clerk trenum could you", "start": 412.36, "end": 418.36}, {"text": "please confirm that quorum is present yes may Horvath Quorum is present okay", "start": 418.36, "end": 423.84}, {"text": "thanks so very much so here we are at our Council special council meeting December 11th", "start": 423.84, "end": 429.4}, {"text": "2024 uh and as we have Quorum present for today's meeting I'd like to call the special meeting of city council to order", "start": 429.4, "end": 436.199}, {"text": "City of Hamilton is situated upon the traditional territories of the Erie neutral hiron wendat honi and Miss sagas", "start": 436.199, "end": 443.319}, {"text": "this land is covered by the dish with one spoon wamp belt Covenant which was an agreement between the hodon and an", "start": 443.319, "end": 449.52}, {"text": "shab to share and care for the resources around the Great Lakes We further acknowledge that this land is covered by", "start": 449.52, "end": 455.919}, {"text": "the Between the Lakes purchased 1792 between the crown and the Miss crown and the Miss sagas of the Credit First", "start": 455.919, "end": 461.56}, {"text": "Nation today the city of Hamilton is home to many indigenous people from across Turtle Island North America and", "start": 461.56, "end": 467.8}, {"text": "we recognize that we must do more to learn about the rich history of this land so that we can better understand", "start": 467.8, "end": 474.36}, {"text": "our roles as residents neighbors partners and caretakers members are", "start": 474.36, "end": 480.24}, {"text": "reminded that all electronic devices are to be switched to a non-audible function during Council meetings uh so we'll", "start": 480.24, "end": 487.319}, {"text": "start with the approval of it of the agenda clerk trenum are there any changes to the agenda uh no mayor there", "start": 487.319, "end": 493.12}, {"text": "are no changes to the agenda okay uh thanks very much may I have a motion then to approve the agenda as presented", "start": 493.12, "end": 500.08}, {"text": "mve by councelor CL cret seconded by councelor spatap for uh can we go to the vote please", "start": 500.08, "end": 507.8}, {"text": "here we go oh votes up thank you no", "start": 538.44, "end": 545.56}, {"text": "problems thumbs up for councelor", "start": 555.64, "end": 559.6}, {"text": "Jackson that carries 13 to Zero thanks very much uh Declarations of Interest members of council are there any", "start": 563.12, "end": 568.8}, {"text": "declarations of Interest seeing none um we'll go on to", "start": 568.8, "end": 578.12}, {"text": "the staff report and I guess there's a an option here we can defer the staff report till after the private and", "start": 578.12, "end": 584.839}, {"text": "confidential or we can do the staff report uh first and uh and then go into", "start": 584.839, "end": 592.6}, {"text": "the private confidential the the decision being such that there may be information provided in the private and", "start": 592.6, "end": 599.8}, {"text": "confidential that may answer questions that you may have on the staff report but certainly it's up I'm in your hands", "start": 599.8, "end": 606.6}, {"text": "so uh just by a kind of sense move it till after or staff report first folks", "start": 606.6, "end": 613.92}, {"text": "hello anybody care okay all right so it looks like people are uh the people who", "start": 613.92, "end": 619.32}, {"text": "care are saying staff report first I'm only kid you are saying staff report first so we'll go on uh to the staff", "start": 619.32, "end": 626.16}, {"text": "report 3.1 lobbyist registry jurisdictional scan FCS 24052 Citywide may have a motion to", "start": 626.16, "end": 634.56}, {"text": "receive report FCS 24052 moved by councelor Paul seconded", "start": 634.56, "end": 640.56}, {"text": "by councelor Alex Wilson any discussion on the", "start": 640.56, "end": 645.32}, {"text": "report okay I see no discussion on the report uh so we can then go to the uh um", "start": 646.959, "end": 655.48}, {"text": "receipt of the report please uh take a vote on that vote will go", "start": 655.48, "end": 661.399}, {"text": "up okay thanks so", "start": 661.399, "end": 667.12}, {"text": "much oh councelor Clark councelor Clark did you have", "start": 673.2, "end": 678.68}, {"text": "something on the report we're in the middle of a vote report on item four before you get to the motion if you okay", "start": 678.68, "end": 683.959}, {"text": "all right so will continue with the completion of this vote sorry about that folks", "start": 683.959, "end": 690.68}, {"text": "uh and that carries 14 to zero thanks very much uh so the we we do have item uh", "start": 697.959, "end": 707.48}, {"text": "four which is the private and confidential uh portion of the meeting uh and moving into close session uh I", "start": 707.48, "end": 715.2}, {"text": "did see uh councelor Clark uh had a comment although there's really nothing on the floor at this moment until we", "start": 715.2, "end": 722.519}, {"text": "actually put the motion on the floor to move into close session is that what he wanted to talk about councelor Clark uh", "start": 722.519, "end": 729.24}, {"text": "yes so if you wanted to move the motion and then recognize me that would sure I think that was is that procedurally", "start": 729.24, "end": 734.519}, {"text": "that's probably the right thing to do uh so assuming though that we have somebody that's going to put the motion at move", "start": 734.519, "end": 740.519}, {"text": "by councelor Alex Wilson uh and seconded by councelor Wang uh the motion to move", "start": 740.519, "end": 745.76}, {"text": "into close session to consider item 3.1 pursuant to section 9.5 of the city's procedural bylaw 21- 021 as amended and", "start": 745.76, "end": 754.44}, {"text": "section 2392 section 239 3.1 of the Interior Municipal act uh 2001 as", "start": 754.44, "end": 761.32}, {"text": "amended as a subject matter pertains to a meeting being held for the purposes of educating or training members and that", "start": 761.32, "end": 767.399}, {"text": "at the meeting no member discusses or otherwise deals with any matter in a way that material materially advances the", "start": 767.399, "end": 775.079}, {"text": "business or decision making of council or the committee members of the public", "start": 775.079, "end": 780.44}, {"text": "uh well assuming that this motion passes uh the meeting will continue following the closed session portion of the", "start": 780.44, "end": 786.399}, {"text": "meeting uh and we will dispose of the rest of this uh until we have the", "start": 786.399, "end": 792}, {"text": "discussion on the motion that's in front of us uh so uh if this motion passes uh", "start": 792, "end": 797.76}, {"text": "then we will I'll read out the last two paragraphs which talk about the procedures that come uh following the", "start": 797.76, "end": 802.839}, {"text": "going into camera so on that note councelor Clark thank you mayor um just I'm I'm", "start": 802.839, "end": 810.639}, {"text": "struggling a little bit I understand we have the right as a council to have", "start": 810.639, "end": 816.92}, {"text": "confidential workshops um when it comes to lobbyist", "start": 816.92, "end": 822.959}, {"text": "registry training I wonder why we would not be doing that in public", "start": 822.959, "end": 831.759}, {"text": "because the onus is really on all those people who should be registering", "start": 831.759, "end": 837.6}, {"text": "themselves and I don't think many businesses understand the process and", "start": 837.6, "end": 842.72}, {"text": "many leaders understand it so if someone could help me understand why we would not be holding this in Open", "start": 842.72, "end": 850.199}, {"text": "Session um thanks councelor Clark I guess I would look to um I not not sure", "start": 850.199, "end": 856.639}, {"text": "who to look to the clerk city manager or the Integrity commissioner themselves um", "start": 856.639, "end": 863.16}, {"text": "or lobbyist register rather I'll perh start start with you mayor only that as", "start": 863.16, "end": 868.68}, {"text": "a matter of practice whenever we are providing education to council to allow the freedom to ask questions especially", "start": 868.68, "end": 875.32}, {"text": "direct to our integrity commissioner who acts as the lobbyist registar in this situation we would recommend you have", "start": 875.32, "end": 881.199}, {"text": "that as an option and Council may wish to to have that it would not prevent you from continuing discussion or comments", "start": 881.199, "end": 887.6}, {"text": "leaving close session or to provide additional public information after the fact um but it is within your right to", "start": 887.6, "end": 895.639}, {"text": "conduct the education enclosed uh thanks cler trenum I don't know if", "start": 895.639, "end": 902.32}, {"text": "anybody else has anything further uh to say I I think the Integrity commissioner", "start": 902.32, "end": 908.48}, {"text": "is here he did rise I'm not sure so he's so can I just um hold on for one second", "start": 908.48, "end": 914.12}, {"text": "my my understanding when I went through the agenda review on this uh was also had to do with the fact that there may", "start": 914.12, "end": 920.199}, {"text": "be specific incidents that people want to refer to as examples of what they didn't understand would have happened", "start": 920.199, "end": 927.12}, {"text": "maybe or should have happened or didn't happen or should have happened uh and when you're kind of asking questions", "start": 927.12, "end": 932.44}, {"text": "about specific people or organizations or situations you could get yourself", "start": 932.44, "end": 937.56}, {"text": "into a bit of a quandry when it comes to uh public disclosure so on that note I'm", "start": 937.56, "end": 945.6}, {"text": "happy to have uh the um lobbyist registar Mr mosan weigh in on the", "start": 945.6, "end": 952.319}, {"text": "conversation if you think that's helpful yes the challenge that I'm", "start": 952.319, "end": 959.16}, {"text": "experiencing is there's it's very counselors can very easily refer to", "start": 959.16, "end": 965.92}, {"text": "company a or individual a they don't need to name names and so that we don't go in", "start": 965.92, "end": 972.04}, {"text": "camera it just when we're talking about transparency every opportunity where we", "start": 972.04, "end": 977.24}, {"text": "could be transparent we should be taking that opportunity that's coun Clark thank you um Mr ban please", "start": 977.24, "end": 986.519}, {"text": "thank you uh thank you um obviously under the minac you have the uh right", "start": 990.48, "end": 997.36}, {"text": "but not it's not necessary to go in camera to uh to receive a training session uh so there is a discretion", "start": 997.36, "end": 1004.44}, {"text": "there uh I can certainly see value in educating the public on uh the lobby", "start": 1004.44, "end": 1011}, {"text": "lobbyist registry I do think there is a a lack of knowledge on the part of a", "start": 1011, "end": 1016.56}, {"text": "lot of smaller businesses especially I think we see a lot of large uh corporations that have registered and", "start": 1016.56, "end": 1023.04}, {"text": "and not so much the smaller businesses who may not be as educated about it so there is that value uh I can also see", "start": 1023.04, "end": 1030.4}, {"text": "the the Merit to counselors maybe wanting to be uninhibited in the", "start": 1030.4, "end": 1036.558}, {"text": "questions that they ask and uh and that's another consideration so I don't have a strong view either way okay um", "start": 1036.559, "end": 1043.959}, {"text": "appreciate that thank you so much uh councelor Clark so I'll leave it to my colleagues", "start": 1043.959, "end": 1049.48}, {"text": "I don't think it's necessary I'll Simply Be voting against going in camera I think it's something that we could be", "start": 1049.48, "end": 1054.679}, {"text": "holding in public very clearly thank you okay thanks so much so uh", "start": 1054.679, "end": 1061.4}, {"text": "councelor Moran Wilson uh thank", "start": 1061.4, "end": 1067.64}, {"text": "you similarly it's it's been my position that in the scenario that was", "start": 1067.64, "end": 1072.84}, {"text": "offered um I was always of the opinion that it's kind of unfair to the inte", "start": 1072.84, "end": 1078.84}, {"text": "Integrity commissioner to be asking for um specific councel in a an entire", "start": 1078.84, "end": 1085.08}, {"text": "Committee of the whole session um that's unfair to the Integrity commissioner they don't have all the details and that", "start": 1085.08, "end": 1091.4}, {"text": "could inadvertently um offer the member of council some", "start": 1091.4, "end": 1097.4}, {"text": "um sense that that is the same that that is Council given and protection given", "start": 1097.4, "end": 1103.88}, {"text": "and I just I I don't believe in this case I I support counselor Clark I it's", "start": 1103.88, "end": 1109.76}, {"text": "just my opinion that it should be front facing given where the onus lies thank", "start": 1109.76, "end": 1115.6}, {"text": "you okay uh councelor Wang please thank you mayor just procedurally", "start": 1115.6, "end": 1121.72}, {"text": "as a question then should we vote down currently the motion to go into closed so the motion before us is to go into", "start": 1121.72, "end": 1128.44}, {"text": "closed that's what we're debating right now councelor Clark raised his uh concerns councelor Moren Wilson raised", "start": 1128.44, "end": 1136.44}, {"text": "her uh position her comments if you wanted to make comments and then I'm going to call for the vote to go", "start": 1136.44, "end": 1142.4}, {"text": "into camera so procedurally I just wanted to ask um because we're speaking about it at this current juncture What", "start": 1142.4, "end": 1149.76}, {"text": "if after the presentation could any member of council ask to go into closed to ask specific questions is that", "start": 1149.76, "end": 1156.799}, {"text": "something that we can do later um anything is possible but the motion before us is the one before us", "start": 1156.799, "end": 1164}, {"text": "and then if once we dispose of that unless you want to make an amendment to it uh which", "start": 1164, "end": 1169.44}, {"text": "I guess is uh is up to you uh but um I think we should we should deal with", "start": 1169.44, "end": 1175.2}, {"text": "what's in ahead of us right in front of us now in terms of the motion on the floor and then if it fails then you can", "start": 1175.2, "end": 1181.159}, {"text": "bring a further motion uh in terms of a uh a further initiative how's that does", "start": 1181.159, "end": 1187.2}, {"text": "that sound good oh okay okay any other comment on the um the motion before us", "start": 1187.2, "end": 1192.52}, {"text": "which is to receive the training uh in camera okay so we will then go to the", "start": 1192.52, "end": 1200.84}, {"text": "vote on the training in camera", "start": 1200.84, "end": 1206.44}, {"text": "[Music] uh so the motion to go in camera is", "start": 1230.14, "end": 1235.28}, {"text": "defeated uh 3 to 11 uh so then I'll look to the counselors to determine if there", "start": 1235.28, "end": 1240.96}, {"text": "is another motion to replace that one or if we just continue on with the Integrity commissioner's report I", "start": 1240.96, "end": 1247.2}, {"text": "suspect that we would just continue uh because that's what's on the agenda and if anything arises during the a", "start": 1247.2, "end": 1253.24}, {"text": "presentation uh then uh then that can be addressed as we go uh and so I would ask", "start": 1253.24, "end": 1259.919}, {"text": "then uh item 4.1 is lobbyist train registry training so um uh David bosan", "start": 1259.919, "end": 1267.96}, {"text": "Integrity commissioner lobbyist registar for the city of Hamilton is providing us with the training on the lobbyist", "start": 1267.96, "end": 1275.559}, {"text": "registry um we will I begin I believe go", "start": 1275.559, "end": 1280.679}, {"text": "into a uh training session forth with when everything is set up uh and then we", "start": 1280.679, "end": 1286.84}, {"text": "will go into the um possibility for uh questions and answers I would ask the uh", "start": 1286.84, "end": 1294.159}, {"text": "registered Lobby uh Lobby the regist the lobbyist regist to", "start": 1294.159, "end": 1302.039}, {"text": "um to uh identify whether you want to take questions throughout the presentation Mr ban or you prefer to go", "start": 1302.039, "end": 1309.679}, {"text": "through the slide the slide presentation and then uh ask questions that would be your preference that I'm looking to uh", "start": 1309.679, "end": 1316.08}, {"text": "understand um thank you I am happy questions in", "start": 1316.08, "end": 1322.12}, {"text": "fact I encourage taking questions as we go through I want this to be as informal as possible okay notwithstanding that", "start": 1322.12, "end": 1328.76}, {"text": "I'm standing here at this formal Podium um but please you you can sit if you're", "start": 1328.76, "end": 1334.679}, {"text": "no no I'm I'm good here um I I think it'll be more effective in terms of presenting uh for people to see me okay", "start": 1334.679, "end": 1342.159}, {"text": "um um can I just have you stop for one minute and so we're we're going to still try to use as much as possible our", "start": 1342.159, "end": 1349.039}, {"text": "speakers um request process uh because it'll be really hard for me to try to", "start": 1349.039, "end": 1354.2}, {"text": "keep my eye on everything and do my due diligence in terms of paying attention to the uh the presentation so I'll be", "start": 1354.2, "end": 1361}, {"text": "keeping an eye on the speaker list um while I've have other eye on uh Mr bosan", "start": 1361, "end": 1366.96}, {"text": "so uh please go ahead thank welcome uh good afternoon mayor and members of", "start": 1366.96, "end": 1372.88}, {"text": "council thank you for giving me the opportunity to present the uh registar lobbyist our training session", "start": 1372.88, "end": 1380.76}, {"text": "today uh as we were saying informally just a few moments ago uh we like we", "start": 1380.76, "end": 1387.2}, {"text": "encourage questions and comments uh as I go through it I I think doing it that", "start": 1387.2, "end": 1392.36}, {"text": "way will kind of break down the formality hopefully um and also allow you to ask", "start": 1392.36, "end": 1398.84}, {"text": "questions when you're thinking of them instead of having to leave them to the end um if we can go to the next", "start": 1398.84, "end": 1406.36}, {"text": "slide so the are going to cover the lobbyist registry bylaw and its", "start": 1406.76, "end": 1412.52}, {"text": "background um the nitty-gritty of the lobbyist definition exam uh exemptions", "start": 1412.52, "end": 1418.08}, {"text": "and some examples just to see how it works and then we'll go through the", "start": 1418.08, "end": 1423.32}, {"text": "roles and responsibilities of myself as lobbyist registar", "start": 1423.32, "end": 1428.36}, {"text": "lobbyists and public office holders which in the case of Hamilton's lobbyist", "start": 1428.36, "end": 1433.76}, {"text": "regist registry bylaw uh includes all members of council", "start": 1433.76, "end": 1439}, {"text": "and Senior the members of the senior leadership team only uh it does say Q&A as the last item", "start": 1439, "end": 1446.799}, {"text": "number four but again I really encourage you to ask questions as we go", "start": 1446.799, "end": 1453.278}, {"text": "along before I get further into the presentation I I do want to thank Chris Newman who prepared a information sheet", "start": 1453.84, "end": 1462.159}, {"text": "on the lobbyist registry uh that formed the basis of uh", "start": 1462.159, "end": 1467.559}, {"text": "certainly the initial portions of the presentation I'm going to give and some of the uh content uh along the way going", "start": 1467.559, "end": 1474.279}, {"text": "toward the end um and that was very helpful in terms of the history of the", "start": 1474.279, "end": 1479.48}, {"text": "bylaw and um uh how we got where we are today so", "start": 1479.48, "end": 1485.72}, {"text": "the minicipal ACT provides the authority but not the necessity in the case of", "start": 1485.72, "end": 1491.36}, {"text": "Hamilton unlike the city of Toronto which it's mandatory uh to establish a lobbyist", "start": 1491.36, "end": 1497.88}, {"text": "registry and uh municipalities are given broad authority to Define lobbying and specify", "start": 1497.88, "end": 1504.88}, {"text": "what is required of lobbyists as well as to make exemptions to uh the requirement", "start": 1504.88, "end": 1511.08}, {"text": "to register uh it authorizes the appointment of a lobbyist", "start": 1511.08, "end": 1516.559}, {"text": "registar and uh it authorizes Council to set out uh the inquiry P powers of the", "start": 1516.559, "end": 1523.679}, {"text": "lobbyist registar can I just ask a question I'm sorry the city of Toronto is different", "start": 1523.679, "end": 1530.399}, {"text": "because of the city of Toronto act that's why it's required or can you clarify yeah it the city of Toronto act", "start": 1530.399, "end": 1536.36}, {"text": "I think because this whole regime came about due to a bit of a scandal in", "start": 1536.36, "end": 1542.12}, {"text": "Toronto a few years ago uh it was made mandatory for Toronto but only discretionary for all the other", "start": 1542.12, "end": 1548.399}, {"text": "municipalities in Ontario okay made mandatory by the legislation yes the city of Toronto", "start": 1548.399, "end": 1553.88}, {"text": "act so the lobbyist registry was created uh the bylaw was created through the", "start": 1553.88, "end": 1559.64}, {"text": "accountability and transparency subcommittee sorry if we can go to the next", "start": 1559.64, "end": 1565.639}, {"text": "slide uh which was made up of counselors citizens and members of the business Community the Bilo was enacted to bring", "start": 1566.08, "end": 1573.36}, {"text": "transparency to lobbying activity at City Hall uh it allows members of the public", "start": 1573.36, "end": 1579.08}, {"text": "to see who are who is lobbying members of council their staff and the senior", "start": 1579.08, "end": 1585.279}, {"text": "leadership team uh and actually the bylaw refers to senior management team whereas the", "start": 1585.279, "end": 1592.84}, {"text": "current reference is senior leadership team but I don't think that makes any difference they're all defined as public", "start": 1592.84, "end": 1599.32}, {"text": "office holders in the in the uh lobbyist registry bylaw it was passed by Council in", "start": 1599.32, "end": 1605.72}, {"text": "September of 2014 and came into effect in August of", "start": 1605.72, "end": 1612.36}, {"text": "2015 uh the city of Hamilton was the third municipality to implement a lobbyist registry after Toronto where it", "start": 1614.039, "end": 1620.48}, {"text": "was mandatory in Ottawa so really Hamilton was the second to voluntarily", "start": 1620.48, "end": 1625.559}, {"text": "bring a Lobby registry into being um there are nine other", "start": 1625.559, "end": 1631.679}, {"text": "municipalities now that have opted to implement their own lobbyist Registries", "start": 1631.679, "end": 1636.799}, {"text": "there's there's nine in addition to the first three so that brings it to a total of 12 uh the most recent was Barry", "start": 1636.799, "end": 1643.76}, {"text": "Burlington brought one in very recently as well and many of the bylaws borrow hav from", "start": 1643.76, "end": 1650.6}, {"text": "Hamilton's bylaw can we just stop for one minute no are you okay", "start": 1650.6, "end": 1658.88}, {"text": "Pascal yes we all heard are you okay she's okay everybody she's everybody's", "start": 1658.88, "end": 1664.76}, {"text": "okay okay sorry about that please go ahead um so my office is", "start": 1664.76, "end": 1673.039}, {"text": "the lobbyist uh registar presently uh with a lot of support from the clerk's office in particular uh Chris Newman who", "start": 1673.039, "end": 1681.279}, {"text": "is effectively the administrator of the lobbyist registry and while I'm on the topic of", "start": 1681.279, "end": 1688.48}, {"text": "my firm I I wanted to introduce Avil Allen who's my partner uh she actually", "start": 1688.48, "end": 1693.88}, {"text": "knows a lot more about the lobbyist registry bylaw than I do um and that's", "start": 1693.88, "end": 1699.039}, {"text": "why she's here in case there's any questions that um her her uh insights can can assist in", "start": 1699.039, "end": 1706.08}, {"text": "answering uh the reporting structure for the", "start": 1706.08, "end": 1711.12}, {"text": "lobbyist registry is governance review subcommittee uh through the audit finance and administration committee and", "start": 1711.12, "end": 1718.2}, {"text": "then to councel next", "start": 1718.2, "end": 1722.64}, {"text": "slide uh so the first and most important question you have to ask yourself when you're considering this bylaw is what is", "start": 1724.12, "end": 1732.08}, {"text": "lobbying um the city of Hamilton bylaw defines lobbying as", "start": 1732.08, "end": 1737.64}, {"text": "community communicating with a public office holder on prescribed subject", "start": 1737.64, "end": 1743.6}, {"text": "matter with the goal of advancing a business or financial", "start": 1743.6, "end": 1749.919}, {"text": "interest uh communication includes any oral written or electronic communication", "start": 1749.919, "end": 1755.559}, {"text": "or any other expressive contact and a public office holder is a", "start": 1755.559, "end": 1762.399}, {"text": "member of council and members of as the bylaw calls it the Senior Management team now", "start": 1762.399, "end": 1769.039}, {"text": "known as the senior leadership team the Pres prescribed subject matter", "start": 1769.039, "end": 1776.279}, {"text": "uh is varied and we're going to go through those uh starting with the very next", "start": 1776.279, "end": 1782.799}, {"text": "slide so subject matter includes the development introduction passage defeat", "start": 1783.6, "end": 1788.84}, {"text": "Amendment or repeal of any City bylaw bill or resolution to do with", "start": 1788.84, "end": 1794.799}, {"text": "anything development approval Amendment or determination of a city policy program directive or", "start": 1794.799, "end": 1802.32}, {"text": "guideline the purchase of goods and services and the awards of contract by", "start": 1802.32, "end": 1807.88}, {"text": "the city the approval uh whether with conditions or refusal of any application", "start": 1807.88, "end": 1815.799}, {"text": "for a service Grant planning approval permit or other license or permission", "start": 1815.799, "end": 1822}, {"text": "from the city next slide", "start": 1822, "end": 1828.24}, {"text": "uh the award of any Financial contribution Grant or other Financial benefit by the city the transfer of any", "start": 1828.36, "end": 1836.559}, {"text": "asset or interest an asset uh to or from the", "start": 1836.559, "end": 1843.559}, {"text": "city uh and the act of arranging a meeting between a public office holder and any other person on any of the", "start": 1843.559, "end": 1851.2}, {"text": "previous subject matters is also considered lobbying is is a subject matter which qualifies as lobbying", "start": 1851.2, "end": 1859.919}, {"text": "and there's a last one which is Communications regarding hiring promoting demoting disciplining or", "start": 1860.44, "end": 1867.72}, {"text": "terminating any employee of the city who is a member of the city's senior management", "start": 1867.72, "end": 1873.639}, {"text": "team and I was pointing out to ail this morning that that technically could mean", "start": 1873.639, "end": 1878.919}, {"text": "that a lawyer hired by a Senior Management person who was terminated or disciplined would have to register as a", "start": 1878.919, "end": 1886.2}, {"text": "lobbyist in order to to represent the member of the senior leadership", "start": 1886.2, "end": 1891.72}, {"text": "team um given the definition of the bylaw next", "start": 1891.72, "end": 1898.6}, {"text": "slide I think one of the stumbling blocks for a lot of smaller businesses who are not registering when they should", "start": 1899.399, "end": 1906.72}, {"text": "be is that lobbying is considered by a lot of people out there as a dirty", "start": 1906.72, "end": 1913.88}, {"text": "word and uh that's an education process that needs to be undertaken to", "start": 1913.88, "end": 1920.6}, {"text": "overcome uh that view of things because lobbying is a valid part of the democratic process that has gone on", "start": 1920.6, "end": 1928}, {"text": "since we've had democracy uh it can shed light on the merits or flaws of a particular position", "start": 1928, "end": 1934.32}, {"text": "so there's Merit to the educational component that lobbying can", "start": 1934.32, "end": 1940.679}, {"text": "provide um it can be acceptable but it does need to be out there in the open", "start": 1940.679, "end": 1946.44}, {"text": "and that's why the reg that's why the registry comes in so the goal of the lobbyist registry", "start": 1946.44, "end": 1952.919}, {"text": "is to allow members of the public to see who is lobbying the city of Hamilton's public office", "start": 1952.919, "end": 1959.2}, {"text": "holders uh and it aligns with the city's values and stragic priorities of", "start": 1959.2, "end": 1965.2}, {"text": "openness and transparency uh lobbying is not an offer", "start": 1965.2, "end": 1970.399}, {"text": "or solic solicitation for a vote or a quid proquo agreement for Action in", "start": 1970.399, "end": 1976.76}, {"text": "exchange for some benefit benefit those are all uh very offside things um", "start": 1976.76, "end": 1983.039}, {"text": "potentially criminal or conflict of interest uh but there's no prohibition against influence without a quid pro", "start": 1983.039, "end": 1992.44}, {"text": "quo next slide so one of the things I'm hoping", "start": 1993.559, "end": 1999.24}, {"text": "that we might clear up uh during my term as lobbyist regist", "start": 1999.24, "end": 2006.08}, {"text": "is the myriad exceptions um many of which in my view are redundant because", "start": 2006.08, "end": 2012.32}, {"text": "they cover circumstances that don't even qualify as lob being under the definition um and and it just makes for", "start": 2012.32, "end": 2020.88}, {"text": "a very uh comp unduly complex analysis", "start": 2020.88, "end": 2026.12}, {"text": "when it comes to looking at whether there's been a breach of the bylaw as we learned quite frankly uh in the Cubit uh", "start": 2026.12, "end": 2034}, {"text": "report which is the one and only report we've done on a obious registry complaint uh during my my", "start": 2034, "end": 2042.679}, {"text": "term so exceptions are uh any communication during Council uh or", "start": 2042.72, "end": 2048.04}, {"text": "committee meetings or any other public process like an open house or", "start": 2048.04, "end": 2053.32}, {"text": "hearing uh requests for information extending compliments or", "start": 2053.32, "end": 2059.76}, {"text": "complaints uh or the applicate request for application interpretation or", "start": 2059.76, "end": 2065.079}, {"text": "enforcement uh of a particular uh bylaw or policy of the", "start": 2065.079, "end": 2071.118}, {"text": "city routine Communications are also Exempted for applications approvals", "start": 2071.119, "end": 2077.76}, {"text": "permits uh as our routine Communications concerning procurement and these exemptions also", "start": 2077.76, "end": 2085.158}, {"text": "puzzle me because I can't imagine a routine application that would", "start": 2085.159, "end": 2092.079}, {"text": "involve the senior a member of the senior leadership team let alone a member of council", "start": 2092.079, "end": 2099.24}, {"text": "so those those exemptions are are kind of curious uh to me can I ask you to", "start": 2099.24, "end": 2104.92}, {"text": "stop for a moment I have a question councelor Wang please go ahead oh no I was going to wait oh you don't have to", "start": 2104.92, "end": 2111.32}, {"text": "in fact I think so just yeah can you break up the monotony of my hearing my voice if uh if you ask the question", "start": 2111.32, "end": 2120.119}, {"text": "now thank you um when we talked about Lobby exempt um exemptions and we were", "start": 2120.119, "end": 2126.8}, {"text": "talking about a group of people I get confused because um I'm understanding if", "start": 2126.8, "end": 2132.72}, {"text": "it is a business if it's what happens when it's a um a student group where", "start": 2132.72, "end": 2139.48}, {"text": "they don't have a business it's not a not for-profit it's also tendentially", "start": 2139.48, "end": 2145}, {"text": "attached to potentially an academic institution they're not technically residents of my ward so how how does", "start": 2145, "end": 2153.64}, {"text": "that work they're not residents they're not", "start": 2153.64, "end": 2159.52}, {"text": "residents of your ward in my ward yes I'm in so there we're going to get to it but there there is an exemption for", "start": 2159.52, "end": 2165.2}, {"text": "constituents any constituent of a counselor and in the case of the mayor", "start": 2165.2, "end": 2170.92}, {"text": "any con any Resident of Hamilton um Can Lobby their counselor or", "start": 2170.92, "end": 2178.839}, {"text": "in the case of the mayor the mayor um without having to to", "start": 2178.839, "end": 2184.119}, {"text": "register uh if it's a an nonprofit", "start": 2184.119, "end": 2189.52}, {"text": "group uh that has less has no employees um they don't have to register", "start": 2189.52, "end": 2197.04}, {"text": "either there's a specific exemption for that oh um and the other thing is there has to", "start": 2197.04, "end": 2203.319}, {"text": "be a financial or business um gain or or uh benefit in other words", "start": 2203.319, "end": 2210.4}, {"text": "it has to be a business or financial interest that's being Advanced okay so I", "start": 2210.4, "end": 2216.44}, {"text": "don't know the situation but if the school group is not advancing a financial or business interest then then", "start": 2216.44, "end": 2223.24}, {"text": "they don't need to register because it isn't lobbying oh okay so it keep that in mind", "start": 2223.24, "end": 2230.16}, {"text": "business and financial interests those are those are the things that lobbying the lobbyist registry is intended to", "start": 2230.16, "end": 2238.8}, {"text": "capture that helps we're going to get to questions like pre arranged questions", "start": 2238.8, "end": 2244.839}, {"text": "that that were provided to me in advance that I've incorporated into the slides and it may be that when you get", "start": 2244.839, "end": 2252.16}, {"text": "to them because I know one of the questions is similar to what you asked you may be able to to refine the question and I might be able to give a", "start": 2252.16, "end": 2258.76}, {"text": "better answer thanks so we have two more questions councelor Moren Wilson and then coun", "start": 2258.76, "end": 2264.52}, {"text": "Pauls thank you mayor hores um could you please clarify I thought you were musing", "start": 2264.52, "end": 2271.599}, {"text": "about F12 and three um I'm I'm not sure", "start": 2271.599, "end": 2276.88}, {"text": "I what you were saying well we're going to get we'll get to it in more in particular but routine", "start": 2276.88, "end": 2284.079}, {"text": "Communications for applications approvals or permits means submitting drawings for example if you're applying", "start": 2284.079, "end": 2290.599}, {"text": "for a building permit submitting whatever else is required to", "start": 2290.599, "end": 2296.04}, {"text": "satisfy um the building department and getting a permit um which one would", "start": 2296.04, "end": 2302.76}, {"text": "expect to be at a lower level not by a senior leadership team member let alone", "start": 2302.76, "end": 2309.24}, {"text": "a member of council so what's contemplated by f are routine filings", "start": 2309.24, "end": 2315.16}, {"text": "and Communications about how's how's my application going when do you think it's", "start": 2315.16, "end": 2320.319}, {"text": "going to be ready um when's the decision going to be made um you know submitting PL", "start": 2320.319, "end": 2327.4}, {"text": "submitting paperwork that was what I mused about", "start": 2327.4, "end": 2332.8}, {"text": "that I I can't see that realistically ever coming into play", "start": 2332.8, "end": 2338.24}, {"text": "in the case of a public office holder as defined in the in the lobbyist registry", "start": 2338.24, "end": 2344.96}, {"text": "bylaw thank you thank you uh councelor Paul please", "start": 2345.76, "end": 2351.16}, {"text": "thank you I don't know if this is going to be answer as you move along but I was wondering when election time comes and", "start": 2351.16, "end": 2358.319}, {"text": "we have uh restaurant owners Financial um uh developers Builders and they give", "start": 2358.319, "end": 2365.319}, {"text": "you you know some funds to help your campaign is that considering lobbying on", "start": 2365.319, "end": 2372.04}, {"text": "their part or on my part yeah that comes under a totally", "start": 2372.04, "end": 2378.68}, {"text": "separate regime under the Municipal elections act so I don't think that's affected by the lobbyist uh lobbying is", "start": 2378.68, "end": 2387}, {"text": "communication and I guess you could consider giving money Communication in a way but um I don't think it's", "start": 2387, "end": 2393.319}, {"text": "contemplated as falling under this bylaw and it would be a municipal election Act it's interesting because you could see", "start": 2393.319, "end": 2400.28}, {"text": "uh you know they want to make sure the counselor they get to know the counselor like I'm just asking you know we just", "start": 2400.28, "end": 2406.96}, {"text": "want to make sure if it's not under that that's fine no there's other legislation that U that is um okay well where you", "start": 2406.96, "end": 2413.64}, {"text": "might want to be careful in that scenario is where they give you the money and they start talking about about", "start": 2413.64, "end": 2420.72}, {"text": "about uh how how you might want to vote on something yeah you can't take money for votes yeah I definitely that was a", "start": 2420.72, "end": 2428.119}, {"text": "cpid such a fine line that you know do they have to Reg do I have to make sure like that I'm just saying that I it's", "start": 2428.119, "end": 2435.2}, {"text": "just such a fine line there thank you making a campaign donation in of itself doesn't fall into the lobbyist registry", "start": 2435.2, "end": 2441.68}, {"text": "by law yeah you're clear right councelor Paul are good okay okay thank you please", "start": 2441.68, "end": 2447.76}, {"text": "continue uh next slide oh councelor crch please I'm sorry I just I exchanged an eyebrow with", "start": 2447.76, "end": 2454.599}, {"text": "councelor Morin Wilson earlier and so I wanted to just get the eyebrow out because when you said routine Communications I think we both had a", "start": 2454.599, "end": 2460.4}, {"text": "kind of thought and my thought was I think what you're saying if I understand correctly is that when someone whoever", "start": 2460.4, "end": 2468.92}, {"text": "is involved in the routine Communications that can't be considered lobbying however some people are wild um", "start": 2468.92, "end": 2475.48}, {"text": "they will just copy uh counselors on stuff or copy senior lead leadership team stuff on very routine", "start": 2475.48, "end": 2480.52}, {"text": "Communications we may think of them as routine but then they they kind of implicate these people into the activity by copying them it's just an email right", "start": 2480.52, "end": 2487.319}, {"text": "so I guess what I was wondering about is like how you understand that situation because those wouldn't be considered routine or what because again just", "start": 2487.319, "end": 2493.28}, {"text": "people some people are wild I think we're going to need uh a", "start": 2493.28, "end": 2500.119}, {"text": "more concrete example like for uh what exactly was the content of the letter if", "start": 2500.119, "end": 2506.52}, {"text": "there's just um copying their counselor on a letter saying why is my application taking so", "start": 2506.52, "end": 2512.96}, {"text": "long I I don't see that as being lobbying um", "start": 2512.96, "end": 2518.96}, {"text": "trying to get the attention of the of the of the official who is responsible for the application so you're going to", "start": 2518.96, "end": 2525.56}, {"text": "have to gauge it on a case-by Case basis I don't think um I can I can sit here and", "start": 2525.56, "end": 2531.48}, {"text": "generalize to every possible scenario where a counselor's copied on a letter to a an official who's responsible for", "start": 2531.48, "end": 2538.28}, {"text": "licensing or permitting or whatever Crush did you want to tease it out a little bit more to get a", "start": 2538.28, "end": 2544.48}, {"text": "clearer respond I'll just I'll use your own example so your example was about building permits I believe and so uh", "start": 2544.48, "end": 2550.559}, {"text": "you're copied on a building permit and the person says hey I expect this is going to go like you know there's some kind of forceful communication that we", "start": 2550.559, "end": 2556.559}, {"text": "might consider they have a business interest they want to get this to happen quickly and it seems like a routine communication because it's just drawings", "start": 2556.559, "end": 2562.88}, {"text": "or whatever it might be but they bother to copy the counselor they bother to copy SLT and they kind of say to you I", "start": 2562.88, "end": 2567.96}, {"text": "want you to do X and that seems like it might be lobbying if they have a business interest I just wanted to get a sense from you if that's what you meant", "start": 2567.96, "end": 2574.44}, {"text": "by routine um because I'm just I'm just introd L to the conversation that uh there's very little routine in this kind", "start": 2574.44, "end": 2581.16}, {"text": "of zone for counselor sometimes where people will just go ahead and be uh", "start": 2581.16, "end": 2586.839}, {"text": "excited well I think it's a judgment as to whether they've crossed the line of", "start": 2586.839, "end": 2592.92}, {"text": "intending to advance a business or financial interest so you've got to gauge it depending on what the ask is or", "start": 2592.92, "end": 2600.28}, {"text": "whether if it's a usually ordinary course of business um communication and", "start": 2600.28, "end": 2606.559}, {"text": "they just for whatever reason you know I you see it in in practice that you know", "start": 2606.559, "end": 2612.76}, {"text": "they think they'll light a fire under the butts of the officials if they copy the counselor um that's pretty common and I", "start": 2612.76, "end": 2620.76}, {"text": "don't see that as lobbying okay because it's really not directed even at you it's directed at that", "start": 2620.76, "end": 2626.48}, {"text": "official and it's the lobbyist responsibility to register anyway so you're that's true yeah I I do want to", "start": 2626.48, "end": 2632.72}, {"text": "stress that too that there are virtually no obligations on public office holders", "start": 2632.72, "end": 2639.44}, {"text": "um in particular you don't have to you're you're not uh required to police", "start": 2639.44, "end": 2644.76}, {"text": "this you don't have to check ID you know you don't have to are you on the", "start": 2644.76, "end": 2649.88}, {"text": "registry I need to I need to check the registry it's up to them if you I would", "start": 2649.88, "end": 2655.079}, {"text": "hope that if you really feel like you're being lobbied and you have a good reason to believe uh that they aren't", "start": 2655.079, "end": 2662}, {"text": "registered that you would point that out and say you really need to register but you have to go out out of the way out of", "start": 2662, "end": 2668.72}, {"text": "your way to educate yourself or interrogate that person they have that", "start": 2668.72, "end": 2673.96}, {"text": "obligation thanks okay uh okay please continue all right next uh next slide", "start": 2673.96, "end": 2682.559}, {"text": "please we're continuing with these exemptions uh a response to a public", "start": 2682.559, "end": 2688.359}, {"text": "office holder's written request so if a person is invited to participate or uh", "start": 2688.359, "end": 2693.48}, {"text": "address an issue that's Exempted state holder participation in City initiated", "start": 2693.48, "end": 2699.76}, {"text": "processes if there's a task force or something uh they may happen to have an interest a business or financial", "start": 2699.76, "end": 2706.079}, {"text": "interest in the subject matter that's Exempted uh Jay taking a position on", "start": 2706.079, "end": 2712.04}, {"text": "whether a policy or program will benefit the community provided no business or", "start": 2712.04, "end": 2717.2}, {"text": "financial interest in the outcome that's a good example of an exemption that's redundant because if it doesn't involve", "start": 2717.2, "end": 2724.079}, {"text": "a business or financial interest in the outcome it isn't lobbying but there is that exemption", "start": 2724.079, "end": 2731.28}, {"text": "business and financial interests of not for-profit business entities with no", "start": 2731.28, "end": 2736.599}, {"text": "paid staff that's verbatim out of the bylaw um business or financial interests", "start": 2736.599, "end": 2743.319}, {"text": "of constituents uh including operators of businesses and entities in the ward uh", "start": 2743.319, "end": 2750.52}, {"text": "or in the case of the mayor of the entire city I do think it's a bit overly broad", "start": 2750.52, "end": 2759.04}, {"text": "to exempt anyone who wants to deal with their mayor's office uh simply because", "start": 2759.04, "end": 2765.16}, {"text": "they happen to be resident of Hamilton but that's uh something to be considered", "start": 2765.16, "end": 2770.2}, {"text": "in any potential amendments to this bylaw uh in extremely rare circumstances", "start": 2770.2, "end": 2777.24}, {"text": "I'm not aware of any that have ever occurred in in Ontario since uh this", "start": 2777.24, "end": 2782.68}, {"text": "legislation came into Force but there is uh an option of the lobbyist regist to", "start": 2782.68, "end": 2789.16}, {"text": "exempt lobbying if it would be harmful to the economic interest or competitive", "start": 2789.16, "end": 2794.319}, {"text": "position of the city and that's to be sought by the lobbyist in advance of the communication", "start": 2794.319, "end": 2802.64}, {"text": "occurring next", "start": 2805, "end": 2808.24}, {"text": "slide and then there's exemptions that broadly cover communication", "start": 2812.4, "end": 2817.52}, {"text": "with other uh governments or members of other councils or the province the", "start": 2817.52, "end": 2823.319}, {"text": "provincial legislature the premier's office Etc", "start": 2823.319, "end": 2829.079}, {"text": "um they cover practically every governing body within Ontario other", "start": 2829.079, "end": 2834.44}, {"text": "provinces the federal government and government outside the borders of Canada", "start": 2834.44, "end": 2840.28}, {"text": "um any sort of dealings in that respect or is not considered to be lobbying um to the that you're um you're", "start": 2840.28, "end": 2849.28}, {"text": "approached by by any such person next", "start": 2849.28, "end": 2855.319}, {"text": "slide um so now we've got just a couple of case studies that I do want some participation with if um you're up for", "start": 2855.319, "end": 2863.52}, {"text": "it uh we've got some examples uh in a social setting a business setting and a", "start": 2863.52, "end": 2868.839}, {"text": "government setting so let's start with the social setting", "start": 2868.839, "end": 2875.4}, {"text": "sorry one second okay so um this is a fa area", "start": 2879.16, "end": 2885.599}, {"text": "where Mr Gray approaches Council of blue at a charity gala uh the municipal Council in which Council of blue sits", "start": 2885.599, "end": 2892.04}, {"text": "has been considering a fireworks bylaw which would ban the sale of fire crackers within the", "start": 2892.04, "end": 2900.28}, {"text": "municipality uh Mr Gray and Mr Blue have known each other for a long time they're", "start": 2900.28, "end": 2905.4}, {"text": "reinis about how much they enjoyed playing with firecrackers when they were kids uh Mr Gray mentions that there was", "start": 2905.4, "end": 2912.359}, {"text": "no harm done by firecrackers and that things should just stay the same and Mr", "start": 2912.359, "end": 2917.48}, {"text": "Gray it turns out owns a corner store that sells does a good business in", "start": 2917.48, "end": 2923}, {"text": "firecrackers so the question is is this lobbying and does it fall under any", "start": 2923, "end": 2929.559}, {"text": "exemption any takers any opinions come on this is like a workshop you get I I", "start": 2931.839, "end": 2937.359}, {"text": "would argue that it would be yes that when Mr Gray indicates he owns a corner story that sells firecrackers he in fact", "start": 2937.359, "end": 2944.799}, {"text": "is um potentially losing that Financial income and therefore should be", "start": 2944.799, "end": 2950.44}, {"text": "lobbying MH any anyone else disagree anyone think any exemption might", "start": 2950.44, "end": 2958.078}, {"text": "apply well if if we can click it one more time so", "start": 2960, "end": 2968.72}, {"text": "it yeah back yep there there's the answers um so the communication itself", "start": 2971.359, "end": 2977.68}, {"text": "it falls under the definition of lobbying he's trying to advance a business or financial interest of maintaining his firecracker sales there", "start": 2977.68, "end": 2985.28}, {"text": "could be an exemption we didn't provide enough information but there could be an exemption if Mr Gray is a", "start": 2985.28, "end": 2993}, {"text": "constituent of counselor blue in which case it's Exempted he doesn't have to", "start": 2993, "end": 3000.44}, {"text": "register very good councelor Nan please go ahead thank you okay so Mr Gray owns", "start": 3002.76, "end": 3009.92}, {"text": "the business Mr or counselor blue right yeah is his counselor his Ward counselor", "start": 3009.92, "end": 3015.839}, {"text": "well he could be we didn't okay make it all that clear here so if counselor blue", "start": 3015.839, "end": 3021.88}, {"text": "was Mr Gray's Ward counselor I.E Mr Gray is a constituent that resides in the", "start": 3021.88, "end": 3028.76}, {"text": "ward or his business is located or runs the business in the ward and it is in Mr", "start": 3028.76, "end": 3035.76}, {"text": "Gray's interest that this bylaw does not come into effect because", "start": 3035.76, "end": 3041.72}, {"text": "his personal business is going to be impacted reducing sales that's not", "start": 3041.72, "end": 3048.44}, {"text": "lobbying it's lobbying but it's Exempted by the constituency constituent", "start": 3048.44, "end": 3053.76}, {"text": "exemption so Mr Gray would not need to register exactly got it that's under this the city's", "start": 3053.76, "end": 3059.799}, {"text": "bylaw there's no requirement that there be a constituent exemption there is in this in this bylaw so okay councelor", "start": 3059.799, "end": 3067.079}, {"text": "Alex Wilson please question yeah it's just the exact same point just wondering if that could be", "start": 3067.079, "end": 3074}, {"text": "weighed in on as a if you could uh maybe opine just on", "start": 3074, "end": 3080.28}, {"text": "exemption L if there's need to restrict it based potentially on your advice seeing other", "start": 3080.28, "end": 3085.96}, {"text": "municipalities is the L being the constituency one that we are just talking about um it just seems to me", "start": 3085.96, "end": 3092.599}, {"text": "that say for example if you have a rental housing business um everywhere that you have a rental housing building", "start": 3092.599, "end": 3099.559}, {"text": "is that not the place of the operation of the business or things like that I like you're you personally may live in a different city how do you define where", "start": 3099.559, "end": 3106.28}, {"text": "your property management company is housed out of especially smaller property management companies that don't have um their own their own site but", "start": 3106.28, "end": 3112.92}, {"text": "just operate purely out of so just trying to understand how Maybe that has been constrained or that understand", "start": 3112.92, "end": 3119.079}, {"text": "you're educating us on what's in the bylaw today yeah um there", "start": 3119.079, "end": 3125.119}, {"text": "haven't like for integrity commissioner uh decisions there's a huge body of law", "start": 3125.119, "end": 3131.76}, {"text": "there's very little on the lobbyist uh registry lobbyist register decisions it", "start": 3131.76, "end": 3137.799}, {"text": "just hasn't come up that much um so there aren't a lot of precedents and I'm not aware of any that deal with this", "start": 3137.799, "end": 3143.88}, {"text": "constituent exemption I'd have to look at it uh I haven't thought about it um whether", "start": 3143.88, "end": 3150.72}, {"text": "if they've got 30 rental housing units uh sorry buildings spread", "start": 3150.72, "end": 3159.48}, {"text": "across the city in all various Wards whether they're thereby constituents of each of those Wards I I'd have to think", "start": 3159.48, "end": 3167.68}, {"text": "about it and and look at the whole business framework to come to a decision on", "start": 3167.68, "end": 3173}, {"text": "that so thanks for that uh I don't see any other questions but it raises one for me which is in a situation like this", "start": 3173, "end": 3179.64}, {"text": "where you know it's gray like there's no real kind of specific but you feel funny", "start": 3179.64, "end": 3185.68}, {"text": "about it I would say just recommend that they register because it's not a it's not the wrong lobbying is not wrong it's", "start": 3185.68, "end": 3193}, {"text": "part of doing the work of a council or a government of any kind to cover a", "start": 3193, "end": 3198.599}, {"text": "person's to cover your discomfort but also you know uh protect the person or", "start": 3198.599, "end": 3203.839}, {"text": "the company or whatever that's speaking to you you can always just suggest or recommend it's their decision you know", "start": 3203.839, "end": 3211.359}, {"text": "it's you don't have an obligation to do that but it might it might um save a", "start": 3211.359, "end": 3218.359}, {"text": "whole lot of Heartache in the future uh especially when it comes to our uh Lous register having to make a decision yeah", "start": 3218.359, "end": 3224.92}, {"text": "so I I totally agree with that and and you can always contact me for advice", "start": 3224.92, "end": 3230.2}, {"text": "just like you do with the code of conduct if you feel uncomfortable contact me and say I I'm just want", "start": 3230.2, "end": 3236.44}, {"text": "wondering if I'm this lobbying and whether I should be suggesting this person that they register", "start": 3236.44, "end": 3242.96}, {"text": "um yeah uh there is talk about being able to", "start": 3242.96, "end": 3248.559}, {"text": "amend possibly like an amendment of this bylaw to allow amendments to the registry after the fact if", "start": 3248.559, "end": 3256.319}, {"text": "you um you know right now it says we'll get to it but it says you have to", "start": 3256.319, "end": 3261.72}, {"text": "register up at least one day before the actual lobbying activity", "start": 3261.72, "end": 3267.24}, {"text": "the first lobbying activity and that lasts for a year um but uh you know", "start": 3267.24, "end": 3274.04}, {"text": "having a grace period where maybe you can imend Chris and I were talking just before we came in here today about a", "start": 3274.04, "end": 3280.559}, {"text": "scenario where you're having a meeting you expect you're having a meeting with a counselor uh you come in and all of a", "start": 3280.559, "end": 3287.24}, {"text": "sudden there's a couple there's a general manager there or the city managers there uh and you didn't", "start": 3287.24, "end": 3292.4}, {"text": "register that to be able to go in and amend within a period of time after that meeting where you didn't expect to run", "start": 3292.4, "end": 3298.44}, {"text": "into the other public office holders to amend to add their names to the uh to", "start": 3298.44, "end": 3304.76}, {"text": "the registry that that might be a good idea okay so what and I appreciate that uh I", "start": 3304.76, "end": 3311.319}, {"text": "think that this that's why we're having this conversation in the first place to look at whether there might be some um", "start": 3311.319, "end": 3316.92}, {"text": "changes that people might want to see to the registry and that would be the work of I think afna and maybe governance uh", "start": 3316.92, "end": 3323.28}, {"text": "so um on that note um councelor Dano has a a question so picking up the the threat on", "start": 3323.28, "end": 3331.079}, {"text": "the current uh discussion so the example of uh an investment property owner has", "start": 3331.079, "end": 3338.76}, {"text": "multiple properties those properties they don't live in your constituency but their property is extending that to a", "start": 3338.76, "end": 3346.44}, {"text": "development industry scenario where the developer doesn't live in your constituency their business is not", "start": 3346.44, "end": 3353.24}, {"text": "located in your constituency but a specific project", "start": 3353.24, "end": 3358.24}, {"text": "is well from experience I know developers tend to register a separate Corporation for each of their", "start": 3358.92, "end": 3364.559}, {"text": "developments so they can say oh it's I was lobbying you know on behalf of xway", "start": 3364.559, "end": 3371.119}, {"text": "well actually no you can't do that you it would have to be someone within XYZ corporation that owns the development", "start": 3371.119, "end": 3378.2}, {"text": "property because the constituency exemption does not", "start": 3378.2, "end": 3383.48}, {"text": "cover thirdparty lobbying in other words lobbying of You by a constituent in", "start": 3383.48, "end": 3389}, {"text": "favor of someone else of a third party so they can only Lobby for their", "start": 3389, "end": 3394.559}, {"text": "themselves their personal interests their business their own personal business interests uh but they can't", "start": 3394.559, "end": 3399.599}, {"text": "Lobby for a third party business or person um they can't Advance their", "start": 3399.599, "end": 3405.96}, {"text": "business or financial interest uh so it it is possible that if", "start": 3405.96, "end": 3411.24}, {"text": "you got the president of the de the XY YZ", "start": 3411.24, "end": 3416.599}, {"text": "company that owns the development property uh that it may fall within that", "start": 3416.599, "end": 3421.839}, {"text": "constituent exemption okay thank you okay thank you please proceed um click", "start": 3421.839, "end": 3430.119}, {"text": "one more time I suddenly realized that we may", "start": 3430.119, "end": 3436}, {"text": "have given you these these slides with the anwers so you may have our our attempt to be", "start": 3436, "end": 3442.16}, {"text": "secret here it may not be working but anyway hopefully you didn't read in", "start": 3442.16, "end": 3447.359}, {"text": "advance oh okay then so I'm going to change this fox situation is is not uh", "start": 3447.359, "end": 3454.48}, {"text": "was not is not particularly good so I'm going to change it which is uh Mr teal", "start": 3454.48, "end": 3459.92}, {"text": "and counselor yellow own a have a variety of business businesses together business interest for which they meet uh", "start": 3459.92, "end": 3469.359}, {"text": "monthly to discuss uh Mr teal alone owns a pro", "start": 3469.359, "end": 3476.44}, {"text": "hunting shop um which is not in Council yellow's", "start": 3476.44, "end": 3481.52}, {"text": "ward in fact Mr T it's in his municipality but Mr teal lives in a", "start": 3481.52, "end": 3486.68}, {"text": "neighboring municipality and basically Mr teal brings up the fact that it would be", "start": 3486.68, "end": 3493.4}, {"text": "really beneficial to his hunting store business if uh more hunting licenses", "start": 3493.4, "end": 3501.44}, {"text": "were given out for pheasants uh and the municipality regulates a number of hunting license", "start": 3501.44, "end": 3507.839}, {"text": "given out via its hunting bylaw in this fake scenario so the question is um has has", "start": 3507.839, "end": 3517.52}, {"text": "Mr teal lobbied uh councelor yellow and if so are there any exemptions that", "start": 3517.52, "end": 3523.2}, {"text": "might apply any", "start": 3523.2, "end": 3530.559}, {"text": "thoughts yes if they're Partners in a business", "start": 3532.319, "end": 3537.88}, {"text": "wouldn't the counselor have a conflict of interest to begin it with that's why I changed it I I changed it on that for", "start": 3537.88, "end": 3544.799}, {"text": "that reason to say that they don't own the hunting business together they have other business interests together I", "start": 3544.799, "end": 3550.48}, {"text": "changed I changed it from that me what I said verbally because you're right it was such a blatant obvious thing", "start": 3550.48, "end": 3559.359}, {"text": "before so you get what you get what she's saying right that that instead of it being that scenario he made slight", "start": 3559.92, "end": 3566.92}, {"text": "change to take take out that conflict of interest piece councelor clerk so the question is still live then is it", "start": 3566.92, "end": 3575.119}, {"text": "lobbying I would say yes that would be my opinion that it is lobbying and it's not exempt in any", "start": 3575.119, "end": 3582.599}, {"text": "way anybody else any takers okay let's click for the", "start": 3582.599, "end": 3589.68}, {"text": "answer I don't want to be wrong tevia you cannot report if I was wrong that", "start": 3589.68, "end": 3595.72}, {"text": "that that is absolutely right it is clear example of lobbying uh it's a", "start": 3595.72, "end": 3601.079}, {"text": "communication to advance a business or financial interest uh counselor yellow", "start": 3601.079, "end": 3606.799}, {"text": "is a public office holder is defined um the financial interest is", "start": 3606.799, "end": 3612.64}, {"text": "obviously enhancing the the B the pro hunting shop business there's been an", "start": 3612.64, "end": 3618.16}, {"text": "attempt to influence to amend the municipal bylaw and the exemption wouldn't apply here because neither the", "start": 3618.16, "end": 3623.92}, {"text": "business nor um Mr teal live in Mr in councilor yellow's constituency uh Ward", "start": 3623.92, "end": 3631.839}, {"text": "so they're not constituents next", "start": 3631.839, "end": 3636.92}, {"text": "slide uh so Council orange and councelor blanch are friends they sit on different Municipal councils of of two different", "start": 3639, "end": 3647.119}, {"text": "municipalities uh councelor orange wrote to councelor blanch for advice about blanch ville's recently amended building", "start": 3647.119, "end": 3653.319}, {"text": "permit bylaw councelor Blan had done uh made efforts to solicit Improvement", "start": 3653.319, "end": 3659.599}, {"text": "suggestions from some local contractors uh Council blanch shares", "start": 3659.599, "end": 3664.92}, {"text": "these suggestions with councelor orange and adds that Orangeville where", "start": 3664.92, "end": 3671.039}, {"text": "councelor orange uh sits Orville's building permit bylaw could use an", "start": 3671.039, "end": 3676.839}, {"text": "update uh is this uh lobbying and is it covered by any", "start": 3676.839, "end": 3682.2}, {"text": "exemption come on any takers coun", "start": 3682.2, "end": 3690.559}, {"text": "Wayne I do not think it is lobbying because it sounds like it's two colleagues that are talking to each", "start": 3690.559, "end": 3695.64}, {"text": "other and I think that that would be exempt because there's no business interest", "start": 3695.64, "end": 3701.799}, {"text": "here okay okay let's let's uh click one", "start": 3701.799, "end": 3708.44}, {"text": "more correct it is not lobbying uh it it would be exempt uh", "start": 3708.599, "end": 3714.68}, {"text": "first of all counselor blanch rate doesn't have a financial or business interest in having orang ville's", "start": 3714.68, "end": 3720.599}, {"text": "building bylaw amended uh secondly um members of different", "start": 3720.599, "end": 3727.72}, {"text": "councils conversing with one another fall within the exception and in section", "start": 3727.72, "end": 3732.92}, {"text": "6D of the bylaw uh when they're acting in their public capacity they're exempt", "start": 3732.92, "end": 3738.119}, {"text": "from registration requirements so uh there's a number of", "start": 3738.119, "end": 3744.24}, {"text": "levels on which this is not lobbying or if it was it was", "start": 3744.24, "end": 3750.68}, {"text": "Exempted next slide um the role of the lobbyist", "start": 3750.799, "end": 3757.88}, {"text": "registar um we are to ensure this is according to the bylaw that the lobbyist registry is available for public", "start": 3757.88, "end": 3764.96}, {"text": "inspection um I look at it occasionally I don't police that I I think Chris", "start": 3764.96, "end": 3771.319}, {"text": "Newman is is the administrator and effectively ensures that that it it is", "start": 3771.319, "end": 3776.96}, {"text": "kept up to date and and is uh properly visible uh I do provide opinions", "start": 3776.96, "end": 3782.72}, {"text": "interpretations on the administration application and enforcement of the lobbyist registry", "start": 3782.72, "end": 3789.319}, {"text": "bylaw uh I thought it it might interest you that I've received uh 12 inquiries", "start": 3789.319, "end": 3794.96}, {"text": "uh well questions about is what I'm doing lobbying do I have to register uh this year so far four of", "start": 3794.96, "end": 3802.319}, {"text": "them were before the Cubit decision and eight them were after so", "start": 3802.319, "end": 3809.4}, {"text": "getting you know publicity out about about the lobbyist regist bylaw has", "start": 3809.4, "end": 3814.559}, {"text": "helped we've seen a surge maybe that's a strong word but certainly a spike in uh", "start": 3814.559, "end": 3822.16}, {"text": "an uptick in maybe better thank you councelor Nan an uptick in in the", "start": 3822.16, "end": 3827.48}, {"text": "registrations since um since that decision came up", "start": 3827.48, "end": 3835}, {"text": "uh councelor Wayne thank you I'm still trying to understand the difference between", "start": 3835.88, "end": 3842.559}, {"text": "advocacy and lobbying because again going back to the", "start": 3842.559, "end": 3849.319}, {"text": "McMaster or sorry I mean the students organizing in a group nonprofit", "start": 3849.319, "end": 3856.92}, {"text": "they may or may not have a paid employee there again they're not in my ward", "start": 3856.92, "end": 3862.119}, {"text": "they're not a business they're advocating on Say by changes or they're advocating on our budget or they're", "start": 3862.119, "end": 3868.559}, {"text": "Advocate those are all potentially Financial interests on their end like Private Financial interests when is it", "start": 3868.559, "end": 3876.079}, {"text": "lobbying and when is it advocacy", "start": 3876.079, "end": 3882.2}, {"text": "well there there's an exemption that covers this and that turns on whether", "start": 3882.2, "end": 3887.4}, {"text": "they have a business if we can go back um to", "start": 3887.4, "end": 3892.92}, {"text": "slide 12", "start": 3893, "end": 3897}, {"text": "so what I was thinking about is exemption J taking a position on whether a policy or program will benefit the", "start": 3899, "end": 3905.599}, {"text": "community provided there is no business or financial interest in the outcome so you need they need to ask", "start": 3905.599, "end": 3913.119}, {"text": "themselves and perhaps you do and suggest to them that if their group has", "start": 3913.119, "end": 3918.64}, {"text": "a financial or personal interest sorry business interest in the", "start": 3918.64, "end": 3924.119}, {"text": "outcome uh it goes Beyond advocacy it's now something that qualifies as lobbying", "start": 3924.119, "end": 3930.279}, {"text": "and should be registered thank you can this raises a question for me", "start": 3930.279, "end": 3936.319}, {"text": "and I'm just going to ask it um because I I hear what you're saying and I I wonder as well so for", "start": 3936.319, "end": 3942.88}, {"text": "example uh if uh we have a couple of different postsecondary educational institutions in our", "start": 3942.88, "end": 3949.599}, {"text": "city and they have student bodies that Advocate on behalf of", "start": 3949.599, "end": 3954.92}, {"text": "student issues to various orders of government for things like I don't know what would be a", "start": 3954.92, "end": 3961.039}, {"text": "thing Fair Transit free Transit uh landlord", "start": 3961.039, "end": 3966.64}, {"text": "licensing uh maybe land use some land use things maybe environmental issues all kinds of different things they", "start": 3966.64, "end": 3975.44}, {"text": "are they have staff but there but there's no real", "start": 3975.44, "end": 3982.24}, {"text": "there's no real um gain business gain to the let's call it a student union or", "start": 3982.24, "end": 3988.799}, {"text": "Student Association and there's no Financial", "start": 3988.799, "end": 3993.839}, {"text": "interests as a Students Association necessarily there might be a personal", "start": 3993.839, "end": 4000.039}, {"text": "gain if you get the fairs down then then you you know you don't have to pay as much for the bus kind of thing so I", "start": 4000.039, "end": 4006.64}, {"text": "guess that that that just kind of fleshes out is that what you're getting at councelor wayang that kind of fleshes it out a little bit in terms of some of", "start": 4006.64, "end": 4013.079}, {"text": "the details my sense is that would still not be lobbying it would be advocacy but", "start": 4013.079, "end": 4018.52}, {"text": "it would be really good to hear your position on that well you know I I guess you need to ask", "start": 4018.52, "end": 4026.44}, {"text": "whether there's a business or financial interest in the outcome on the part of that organization or or its members and", "start": 4026.44, "end": 4034.48}, {"text": "but and and I I was going to I was thinking it when councelor Clark was saying it uh which", "start": 4034.48, "end": 4041.48}, {"text": "is there an analogy is is in the conflict", "start": 4041.48, "end": 4046.799}, {"text": "of interest act if it's a something that is of General benefit to everyone in the", "start": 4046.799, "end": 4051.839}, {"text": "community uh for example Transit fairs uh is is not just limited to a", "start": 4051.839, "end": 4057.96}, {"text": "benefit to University students or college students so that I think would be something that we would", "start": 4057.96, "end": 4065.24}, {"text": "likely find fell with an exemption J because the uh business or financial", "start": 4065.24, "end": 4070.88}, {"text": "interest is so widespread and not limited to them that that we wouldn't call that a", "start": 4070.88, "end": 4077.16}, {"text": "personal uh Financial or uh business or financial interest of that organization", "start": 4077.16, "end": 4083.4}, {"text": "or its members okay thank you counc jko further on this topic because it's", "start": 4083.4, "end": 4091.599}, {"text": "it's a difficult differentiation there's all kinds of social justice organizations that Lobby on all kinds of", "start": 4091.599, "end": 4098.318}, {"text": "different issues um that are very active they have an organized structure board", "start": 4098.319, "end": 4103.6}, {"text": "of directors paid staff and uh you could make the argument that they do have a", "start": 4103.6, "end": 4109.08}, {"text": "financial interest in their relevancy and their ability to to to be funded by their by the", "start": 4109.08, "end": 4118.44}, {"text": "effectiveness of their advocacy and if I could use one example would be Acorn uh", "start": 4118.44, "end": 4124.08}, {"text": "actively lobbying on behalf of various bylaws in terms of rental units and that", "start": 4124.08, "end": 4130.159}, {"text": "kind of thing and their members do have a direct financial interest", "start": 4130.159, "end": 4137.239}, {"text": "tenants you mean tenants yes okay I wrote a DEC I wrote I wrote a letter", "start": 4138.839, "end": 4145.08}, {"text": "about this I didn't write a decision but uh very much on point and and what what", "start": 4145.08, "end": 4150.56}, {"text": "I would say to that question councilor Dano is that um tenants are such a", "start": 4150.56, "end": 4156.278}, {"text": "widespread group that it falls within that that notion", "start": 4156.279, "end": 4162.12}, {"text": "of um you know it's something that's of benefit to to the community as a whole as opposed you know you can't there such", "start": 4162.12, "end": 4169.798}, {"text": "a WID spread group it's such a massive proportion of the", "start": 4169.799, "end": 4174.838}, {"text": "population that I would tend to find that that doesn't qualify as a business", "start": 4174.839, "end": 4180.199}, {"text": "or financial interest thanks thank", "start": 4180.199, "end": 4185.56}, {"text": "you okay back to uh wherever we were on the", "start": 4185.56, "end": 4190.88}, {"text": "slides uh slide 19 I think yeah that's it", "start": 4190.88, "end": 4196.92}, {"text": "yeah so I I I think I ended off by saying um we've had an uptick in registrations and since that public", "start": 4196.92, "end": 4203.92}, {"text": "report uh and uptick in inquiries and I think I think that's a good thing and it just shows that education is", "start": 4203.92, "end": 4210.44}, {"text": "important uh to to generate um uh people signing up on the", "start": 4210.44, "end": 4218.92}, {"text": "registry I think have go through the I think Council Wilson has a", "start": 4218.92, "end": 4224.8}, {"text": "question thank you I I clearly understood and", "start": 4224.8, "end": 4230.88}, {"text": "agree with the explanation or response you gave councelor Dano using the acorn example but I respectfully don't think", "start": 4230.88, "end": 4237.48}, {"text": "you answered the second part of his um scenario on the perhaps interpretation", "start": 4237.48, "end": 4246}, {"text": "of financial interest in that even um we know sometimes that there are", "start": 4246, "end": 4252.48}, {"text": "associations who as part of sometimes their ability to qualify for or compete", "start": 4252.48, "end": 4260.76}, {"text": "with against uh the receipt of say public monies they have to show some", "start": 4260.76, "end": 4266.52}, {"text": "deliverables and it is in their financial interest even though the what they have delivered is widespread in its", "start": 4266.52, "end": 4273.56}, {"text": "Community benefit could you just answer that part of the uh the", "start": 4273.56, "end": 4281.239}, {"text": "question I don't think I understand the question I'm so sorry I no the question posed by councelor", "start": 4281.239, "end": 4288.44}, {"text": "Dano was that sometimes in order for uh", "start": 4288.44, "end": 4294.44}, {"text": "agencies that are advocating for policy change their financial dependency", "start": 4294.44, "end": 4301.96}, {"text": "sometimes on um operational monies they", "start": 4301.96, "end": 4307.12}, {"text": "have to show deliverables in that they they were successful in getting a change in policy X they were successful in", "start": 4307.12, "end": 4313.84}, {"text": "getting a change in policy y why and that enables them to compete more", "start": 4313.84, "end": 4319.36}, {"text": "successfully for um membership dollars or provincial money or foundational", "start": 4319.36, "end": 4325.04}, {"text": "money I I don't think you answered the financial component of that scenario at", "start": 4325.04, "end": 4332.159}, {"text": "least as I understood councelor Dano's question okay well if there's going to be if they're advancing their own", "start": 4332.159, "end": 4338.32}, {"text": "business interest or a financial interest then yes that then becomes lobbying if if", "start": 4338.32, "end": 4345.32}, {"text": "the the goal they're attempting to attain is uh going to enhance their financial", "start": 4345.32, "end": 4352.12}, {"text": "interest or their business interest then that does fall within lobbying and if they're not a nonprofit with no", "start": 4352.12, "end": 4359.199}, {"text": "employees then they will be covered by the lobbyist registry bylaw so yes in that scenario that you", "start": 4359.199, "end": 4366.76}, {"text": "gave me which I hadn't really thought of and would probably have to be supported", "start": 4366.76, "end": 4373.239}, {"text": "fairly clearly into to me uh in the case of an organization like that that there", "start": 4373.239, "end": 4378.96}, {"text": "is that Financial or business interest um I would I would consider", "start": 4378.96, "end": 4385.28}, {"text": "that Lobby yes that doesn't fall within an", "start": 4385.28, "end": 4391.4}, {"text": "exemption councelor n okay another example", "start": 4391.4, "end": 4397.159}, {"text": "nonprofit related so let's say our uh interval house which works steadfast", "start": 4397.159, "end": 4404.04}, {"text": "around sexual violence against women come to Advocate to a council", "start": 4404.04, "end": 4411.4}, {"text": "member to pass a bylaw or say that the municipality has a", "start": 4411.4, "end": 4418.56}, {"text": "role to play a bigger role to play in helping eradicate sexual violence or", "start": 4418.56, "end": 4426.08}, {"text": "gender-based violence in our community there are not for-profit organization that fund raise for their existence on", "start": 4426.08, "end": 4434.08}, {"text": "occasion apply for Grants they have paid employees they have paid employees they", "start": 4434.08, "end": 4439.12}, {"text": "have a board of directors it is in the community's", "start": 4439.12, "end": 4444.8}, {"text": "interest to advance a society where gender-based", "start": 4444.8, "end": 4450.08}, {"text": "violence is eradicated their primary", "start": 4450.08, "end": 4455.76}, {"text": "existence is on that premise of aiming to eradicate gender-based violence in", "start": 4455.76, "end": 4461.04}, {"text": "our communities and support survivors so in your last response to councelor Wilson's question which was", "start": 4461.04, "end": 4467.48}, {"text": "councelor dl's question that should they", "start": 4467.48, "end": 4472.76}, {"text": "seek [Music] Municipal", "start": 4472.76, "end": 4479.08}, {"text": "action towards those shared principles and goals they would be considered lobbyists", "start": 4479.08, "end": 4485.36}, {"text": "if they would financially benefit or be seen as an effective organization to", "start": 4485.36, "end": 4493.4}, {"text": "advance those social values well how is that different from", "start": 4493.679, "end": 4499.08}, {"text": "tenant rights I'm just you know like all a sudden now we're we're equating Rights Movement work to financial gain and", "start": 4499.08, "end": 4507.52}, {"text": "based on that agency and organization's mandate to fulfill its purpose which is a greater purpose which", "start": 4507.52, "end": 4514.96}, {"text": "is a community benefit right but it could be viewed as", "start": 4514.96, "end": 4520.36}, {"text": "lobbying if their success in getting this Council table to join them in their", "start": 4520.36, "end": 4526.84}, {"text": "calls to action could put them in a beneficial position with another granting", "start": 4526.84, "end": 4532.719}, {"text": "organization okay do you know how long it takes to register 5 minutes no I get it I don't understand what the big deal", "start": 4532.719, "end": 4541.56}, {"text": "isan hold on excuse me we're here to get answers from you", "start": 4541.56, "end": 4546.96}, {"text": "they're not challenging you they're trying to figure out what we should be saying to our not for-profit", "start": 4546.96, "end": 4552.719}, {"text": "organization so I don't want the temperature get up I want the temperature stay down because this is a", "start": 4552.719, "end": 4559.199}, {"text": "a legitimate conversation about what we should be telling certain people or", "start": 4559.199, "end": 4564.239}, {"text": "certain organizations based on what our bylaw currently says and I noticed that your colleague ail Allen also was", "start": 4564.239, "end": 4571.8}, {"text": "wanting to provide some clarity if I'm not mistaken um I saw your hand go up is", "start": 4571.8, "end": 4577.88}, {"text": "that the case oh yes oh oh thank you thank you um yeah I", "start": 4577.88, "end": 4587.04}, {"text": "think it's just going to be a matter of evidence in each case so", "start": 4587.04, "end": 4592.28}, {"text": "um if if a group indicates that it's our goal to um", "start": 4592.28, "end": 4599.6}, {"text": "enhance the financial and business interests of our organization uh then it will be very", "start": 4599.6, "end": 4606.199}, {"text": "clear um but it's if it's a very indirect situation um", "start": 4606.199, "end": 4612.4}, {"text": "where you would really have to work hard hard to draw an inference that that is", "start": 4612.4, "end": 4617.92}, {"text": "the ultimate goal of the organization um you know it's going to be a different situation so it's just a", "start": 4617.92, "end": 4624.719}, {"text": "a matter of evidence in each case uh what is the goal of the", "start": 4624.719, "end": 4632.4}, {"text": "organization n that that is very helpful and very clear because the the existance", "start": 4632.8, "end": 4639.08}, {"text": "of the organization is to advance a larger social uh correction", "start": 4639.08, "end": 4645.84}, {"text": "in society their existence isn't to make", "start": 4645.84, "end": 4652.32}, {"text": "money okay got it if I can just add two things one is um let me read exemption", "start": 4652.32, "end": 4659.639}, {"text": "6j 5j rather um because there's more to it", "start": 4659.639, "end": 4664.88}, {"text": "than what's on the slide and and I think it goes directly to the question it says", "start": 4664.88, "end": 4670.88}, {"text": "Comm this is an exemption Communications for or against a policy or program that stayed a position where the primary", "start": 4670.88, "end": 4678.28}, {"text": "focus is a broad Community benefit or detriment whether Citywide or local and", "start": 4678.28, "end": 4684.92}, {"text": "where that position would have no direct indirect or perceived benefit to a", "start": 4684.92, "end": 4691.639}, {"text": "business or financial interest of the individual business or other entity on whose behalf the community communication", "start": 4691.639, "end": 4698.239}, {"text": "is undertaken um so that's", "start": 4698.239, "end": 4706.679}, {"text": "I I I think that's germine to the question like like I said I would probably require in that case very", "start": 4706.76, "end": 4712.92}, {"text": "strict proof that there is some kind of benefit um that can be attributed to the", "start": 4712.92, "end": 4719.12}, {"text": "organization a financial or business benefit uh as a result of this General", "start": 4719.12, "end": 4725.8}, {"text": "policy um you know and obviously very extremely admirable and and and needed", "start": 4725.8, "end": 4732.96}, {"text": "policy uh uh input thank you councelor Nan you okay", "start": 4732.96, "end": 4740.76}, {"text": "councelor Clark please so if a not for-profit is", "start": 4740.76, "end": 4746.159}, {"text": "advocating for policy change across many classes in a", "start": 4746.159, "end": 4753.12}, {"text": "municipality and there is no evidence of a direct financial gain to that", "start": 4753.12, "end": 4759.6}, {"text": "organization it would not be deemed to be lobbying", "start": 4759.6, "end": 4765.12}, {"text": "if an organization is advocating for policy", "start": 4766.76, "end": 4772.12}, {"text": "change but also advocating for a grant for themselves to enable them to help", "start": 4772.12, "end": 4779.04}, {"text": "make that change in the broader Community then that would be lobbying the lot example is very clear", "start": 4779.04, "end": 4786.96}, {"text": "yes um I I can't I'm not going to commit", "start": 4786.96, "end": 4792.76}, {"text": "100% on the first scenario because it it it depends", "start": 4792.76, "end": 4798}, {"text": "on how significant they're uh achieving a given um policy change or", "start": 4798, "end": 4807.76}, {"text": "would is to to the impact on their uh on their funding and and I", "start": 4807.76, "end": 4813.84}, {"text": "think that would have to be looked at Case by case may I ask one more question sure please go ahead thank you", "start": 4813.84, "end": 4821.199}, {"text": "um whether there are organizations that are not for profit or for", "start": 4821.199, "end": 4826.76}, {"text": "business and they're not sure if they should be", "start": 4826.76, "end": 4832.84}, {"text": "lobbying they can clearly call you and ask for your advice is that correct", "start": 4832.84, "end": 4838.6}, {"text": "absolutely like I said it it happens it's happened a dozen times already this year uh we had a spike after the", "start": 4838.6, "end": 4845.36}, {"text": "publicity of the Cubit report and um absolutely that's one of my function so", "start": 4845.36, "end": 4851.52}, {"text": "when in doubt call the registar okay thank", "start": 4851.52, "end": 4856.8}, {"text": "you and that's obviously insulating I just like on the code of conduct if I've", "start": 4856.8, "end": 4862}, {"text": "given you an opinion um I can't obviously go back and find you in violation later", "start": 4862, "end": 4869.28}, {"text": "[Music] on okay so uh among other powers that I", "start": 4869.28, "end": 4876}, {"text": "have is to conduct inquiries on requests made by the council or the public respecting the conduct of", "start": 4876, "end": 4881.76}, {"text": "lobbyists suspension of a lobbyist and prohibition from lobbying uh it can be", "start": 4881.76, "end": 4887.56}, {"text": "from various length of times the um default is 30 days for the first", "start": 4887.56, "end": 4894.719}, {"text": "um offense uh removing a lobbyist", "start": 4894.719, "end": 4900.36}, {"text": "registration um or refusing a lobbying registration those are those are various", "start": 4900.36, "end": 4906.239}, {"text": "powers that I could exercise depending on the", "start": 4906.239, "end": 4911.44}, {"text": "transgression next slide can I just ask a question so I just want", "start": 4911.44, "end": 4917.04}, {"text": "to go back to that previous slide if you may if you please the all of the things what the registar may do is all", "start": 4917.04, "end": 4925.44}, {"text": "respecting the conduct of lobbyists or organizations that may in fact be or not", "start": 4925.44, "end": 4931.8}, {"text": "be considered lobbyists again this is the the onus is on the organization the person not on", "start": 4931.8, "end": 4939.4}, {"text": "the counselor no there's no sanctions against counselors in here the only one", "start": 4939.4, "end": 4945}, {"text": "is and we'll get to it is if you refuse to cooperate with an investigation okay", "start": 4945, "end": 4950.84}, {"text": "thank", "start": 4950.84, "end": 4953.04}, {"text": "you uh so a lobbyist is to registered at least one day before the first lobbying", "start": 4957.36, "end": 4963.48}, {"text": "communication occurs uh the registration of a subject matter is only valid for", "start": 4963.48, "end": 4969.8}, {"text": "one year if a lobbyist plans to continue lobbying for over year you have to", "start": 4969.8, "end": 4977.239}, {"text": "re-register um and as part of registering a subject matter lobbyists are required to input key information", "start": 4977.36, "end": 4983.639}, {"text": "such as their name contact information who they're lobbying on behalf of if if", "start": 4983.639, "end": 4989.639}, {"text": "it's not for them themselves personally uh who is to be lobbied and", "start": 4989.639, "end": 4995.36}, {"text": "when approximately it doesn't have to be an exact date the lobbying is expected to start and", "start": 4995.36, "end": 5002.76}, {"text": "finish and again you may want to consider whether to allow amendments so that", "start": 5002.76, "end": 5009}, {"text": "instead of having to you know fill out a whole new uh complete a whole new registration every time although it's", "start": 5009, "end": 5016.32}, {"text": "not that honorous that if you simply were able to go in and amend to add subject matter to the original", "start": 5016.32, "end": 5022.32}, {"text": "registration or the identities of public office holders who you know you you are going to Lobby", "start": 5022.32, "end": 5030.28}, {"text": "uh and allow that to to happen for a certain period of time after the actual lobbying activity took place which some", "start": 5030.28, "end": 5037.8}, {"text": "other uh lobbyist registry bylaws have such as niagar", "start": 5037.8, "end": 5043.519}, {"text": "regions uh public office holders are responsible for responding in a timely and complete manner to a request from", "start": 5045.159, "end": 5051.719}, {"text": "the lobbyist registar to gather and provide", "start": 5051.719, "end": 5056.719}, {"text": "information and year to end as soon as practical lobbying by a lobbyist who is", "start": 5056.8, "end": 5062.199}, {"text": "prohibited from lobbying uh and Report such lobbying in a timely manner to the lobbyist register so you", "start": 5062.199, "end": 5068.84}, {"text": "have no proactive obligation um but if you learn that", "start": 5068.84, "end": 5076.48}, {"text": "someone is well you will learn because every public office holder is required if I suspend somebody as I think you saw", "start": 5076.48, "end": 5084.159}, {"text": "happen you're all going to get an email or a letter advising of that suspension", "start": 5084.159, "end": 5089.76}, {"text": "so that you're all aware every public office holder is aware that for a certain period of time", "start": 5089.76, "end": 5095.639}, {"text": "that person is not allowed to Lobby", "start": 5095.639, "end": 5099.96}, {"text": "you um and like we put in the gray box to", "start": 5101.199, "end": 5106.239}, {"text": "the right on the slide other than when a responding to a request an office holder is not required to gather information", "start": 5106.239, "end": 5112.88}, {"text": "concerning people that are lobbying her or him you you're not having to act act like the lobbyist", "start": 5112.88, "end": 5118.199}, {"text": "cop um you you do not have to to do that it", "start": 5118.199, "end": 5124.36}, {"text": "would be of a public benefit in my personal opinion if you did make an inquiry if you thought you were being", "start": 5124.36, "end": 5130.6}, {"text": "Lobby lobbied and had reason to think that the person wasn't registered but that's not even a requirement um under", "start": 5130.6, "end": 5138}, {"text": "the bylaw we have a question from uh councelor Pauls I don't know if this makes sense", "start": 5138, "end": 5145.04}, {"text": "but what's the different between a delegate that comes like um let's say we", "start": 5145.04, "end": 5150.679}, {"text": "passed the storm water the rain TXS and we had all the farm fers lined up here", "start": 5150.679, "end": 5155.96}, {"text": "and they're talking about their opposition of what we want to do and", "start": 5155.96, "end": 5161.48}, {"text": "they're lobbying for themselves because is that lobbying what's the", "start": 5161.48, "end": 5166.92}, {"text": "difference between somebody coming and lobbying all of us not to do that there's an Express exemption for uh uh", "start": 5166.92, "end": 5175.88}, {"text": "that type of communication at a public meeting including a council meeting a committee meeting so it's automatically", "start": 5175.88, "end": 5183.32}, {"text": "Exempted if it's if public setting so lobbyist is only when one counselor gets pulled aside NOP", "start": 5183.32, "end": 5191.6}, {"text": "there can be multiple it it's just a matter of that's an exemption that that would be lobbying except it's Exempted", "start": 5191.6, "end": 5198}, {"text": "because it's at a public um meeting uh council meeting committee meeting it it's not necessarily the", "start": 5198, "end": 5205.159}, {"text": "numbers it's the environment yeah I just sometimes I don't understand what's our", "start": 5205.159, "end": 5210.44}, {"text": "role as a counselor listening to our constituent like let's say one of my cons has a restaurant and wants to put a", "start": 5210.44, "end": 5217.48}, {"text": "patio and he comes to me and he says counselor please pass the motion for a patio cuz I'm not making any money", "start": 5217.48, "end": 5224.76}, {"text": "unless I have patio outside and he only approaches me what's my role as a", "start": 5224.76, "end": 5230.28}, {"text": "counselor to say yes I will make sure you know I'll vote for that to help you", "start": 5230.28, "end": 5235.679}, {"text": "out is that lobbying it is but it's Exempted because he's your constituent so constituents", "start": 5235.679, "end": 5243.36}, {"text": "are an exemption so constituents that live in your ward are an exemption in our current in our current bylaw as well", "start": 5243.36, "end": 5250.28}, {"text": "as businesses that operate in your ward are also Exempted in our current bylaw", "start": 5250.28, "end": 5256.119}, {"text": "okay that's thank you correct correct Mr ban so any business that's in my ward I", "start": 5256.119, "end": 5261.199}, {"text": "can advocate for them yes right okay thank you yeah and it wouldn't be considered lobbying when they meet with", "start": 5261.199, "end": 5267.96}, {"text": "you which is the point of our cor correct meeting today thank you well", "start": 5267.96, "end": 5276.119}, {"text": "yeah I'm going to get to another slide that's GNA put a slight caveat to my answer but we'll get to", "start": 5276.56, "end": 5283.88}, {"text": "it okay enforcement um individuals can request that the lobbyist register", "start": 5283.88, "end": 5290.32}, {"text": "investigate and conduct inquiries respecting compliance with the bylaw a request can be made by", "start": 5290.32, "end": 5296.76}, {"text": "contacting the office of the city clerk uh they complete a form uh and they have", "start": 5296.76, "end": 5302.76}, {"text": "to pay a fee of $100 which is refunded if there is a finding of uh improper", "start": 5302.76, "end": 5310.04}, {"text": "lobbying without", "start": 5310.04, "end": 5312.8}, {"text": "registration NE next slide um so we were kindly provided with", "start": 5315.76, "end": 5322.08}, {"text": "some answer uh questions in advance from counselors these are all were all done anonymously or at least they're", "start": 5322.08, "end": 5328.239}, {"text": "Anonymous here um so I wanted to go through them there were some really good questions and and counterable reinforce", "start": 5328.239, "end": 5334.719}, {"text": "what we've already gone through so the first one is is there an option for a lobbyist to register as a", "start": 5334.719, "end": 5341.239}, {"text": "general lobbyist and then a related question there are some groups that have interests in Planning Development and", "start": 5341.239, "end": 5347.679}, {"text": "climate change and social justice do they have to register for every possible", "start": 5347.679, "end": 5354.76}, {"text": "topic and I think we misunderstood the first question when we put that first bullet answer which says no must", "start": 5354.76, "end": 5362.159}, {"text": "specifically must specify whether consult you're a consultant in-house or voluntary unpaid lobbyist which of the", "start": 5362.159, "end": 5369.6}, {"text": "three uh type different types of lobbyists identified in the lobbyist registry", "start": 5369.6, "end": 5376.6}, {"text": "bylaw uh I think this meant can you just register saying General lobbyists in", "start": 5377.48, "end": 5382.8}, {"text": "other words not specifying a topic and no you can't you have to specify the subject", "start": 5382.8, "end": 5388.6}, {"text": "matter um yeah you have to every every topic", "start": 5388.6, "end": 5395.96}, {"text": "that you intend to Lobby on needs to be registered for and if", "start": 5395.96, "end": 5403.48}, {"text": "you you know comes up and you find that you're going to you want to Lobby on something else you have to do a further", "start": 5403.48, "end": 5409.44}, {"text": "registration possibly in the future this will it it will be more streamlined so", "start": 5409.44, "end": 5414.48}, {"text": "that someone can amend their existing registration to add additional public office holders they spoken to and more", "start": 5414.48, "end": 5421.88}, {"text": "importantly for this question the subject additional subject matters of the of the", "start": 5421.88, "end": 5428.4}, {"text": "lobbying next slide uh so this is just an example of", "start": 5429.719, "end": 5437.239}, {"text": "what currently happens so every time you uh want to add a new category of lobbying you need to do another", "start": 5437.239, "end": 5443.76}, {"text": "registration this from the public registry so this is all public", "start": 5443.76, "end": 5449.04}, {"text": "information um so this particular individual is uh has agreed to Lobby", "start": 5449.04, "end": 5456.04}, {"text": "Financial Services affordable housing and planning and development so that's", "start": 5456.04, "end": 5462}, {"text": "um that is all uh separate registrations they had to do for each of those", "start": 5462, "end": 5468.32}, {"text": "categories next slide so this is the current or at least", "start": 5468.32, "end": 5474.719}, {"text": "as of a week or two ago uh breakdown of the categories of", "start": 5474.719, "end": 5481.56}, {"text": "lobbying that are currently registered on Hamilton's lobbyist registry um you'll see the the biggest", "start": 5481.56, "end": 5489.88}, {"text": "uh number of registrations at over 140 is for Planning and", "start": 5489.88, "end": 5495.28}, {"text": "Development notice affordable housing is second with 70", "start": 5495.28, "end": 5501}, {"text": "registrations uh and other notable categories of lobbying Economic", "start": 5501, "end": 5506.639}, {"text": "Development the environment Public Health real estate property and", "start": 5506.639, "end": 5511.719}, {"text": "transportation that's just called from a a review of", "start": 5511.719, "end": 5518.239}, {"text": "the current registry um what the current registry sets out next", "start": 5518.239, "end": 5526.44}, {"text": "slide and then of the three categories of lobbyists the bylaw recognizes these", "start": 5527.36, "end": 5534.96}, {"text": "are the proportions of registrations uh by type of", "start": 5534.96, "end": 5541.52}, {"text": "lobbyist and then there were a few that were left blank okay we have a question councelor casar please go ahead yeah", "start": 5541.56, "end": 5547.119}, {"text": "thank you could you just give a brief definition of the three different types so it's clear thank you uh a consultant", "start": 5547.119, "end": 5552.96}, {"text": "that's basically where you're lobbying you're a third party lobbyist so you're working for a strategy Corp or something", "start": 5552.96, "end": 5559.639}, {"text": "like I hate to pick a real name but you're you're acting for a lobbyist or a consulting company and you're", "start": 5559.639, "end": 5566.88}, {"text": "representing a client to the public office holders in houses if you're work", "start": 5566.88, "end": 5573.159}, {"text": "for that company and you uh you're lobbing on behalf of your corporation or your your entity or", "start": 5573.159, "end": 5579.92}, {"text": "your business that would make you in house and volunteer is if you work for a not", "start": 5579.92, "end": 5585.639}, {"text": "for-profit and you're not paid so you well work you volunteer you're", "start": 5585.639, "end": 5590.96}, {"text": "you're literally you're the chair of the board for example of a nonprofit and you come Lobby so", "start": 5590.96, "end": 5597.6}, {"text": "yeah okay the question on slide 27 if we can go there", "start": 5599.88, "end": 5605.76}, {"text": "uh what if the group is a neighborhood-based community group nonprofit in my War do they have to register they are technically not a", "start": 5607.6, "end": 5614.8}, {"text": "resident nor a business per", "start": 5614.8, "end": 5618.32}, {"text": "se so and then the related question what if the person and these were questions", "start": 5619.84, "end": 5625.239}, {"text": "from different counselors what if the person lives in my ward and has a lobbyist interest where do I draw the", "start": 5625.239, "end": 5631.239}, {"text": "line are they a resident in my ward but the con conversation bleeds into other", "start": 5631.239, "end": 5636.6}, {"text": "areas so I think going more to the first question uh the uh constituent is", "start": 5636.6, "end": 5645}, {"text": "defined in as not just an individual or a business but actually an", "start": 5645, "end": 5650.56}, {"text": "entity including nonprofits and groups quote groups so it's pretty broad as to", "start": 5650.56, "end": 5658.28}, {"text": "what constitutes a constituent they can communicate and", "start": 5658.28, "end": 5663.84}, {"text": "this is important I think I've already said it once before the constituent can communicate regarding their own business", "start": 5663.84, "end": 5669.719}, {"text": "or financial interests uh with the counsel without registering under the", "start": 5669.719, "end": 5676.199}, {"text": "bylaw uh but you can't do third party lobbying in other words if I'm a constituent of councelor", "start": 5676.199, "end": 5682.92}, {"text": "Wilson um I can't come in and start lobbying for some Corporation belonging", "start": 5682.92, "end": 5689.96}, {"text": "to a third party or some interest that isn't my own personal interests uh I can", "start": 5689.96, "end": 5695.719}, {"text": "only Lobby for my own personal uh or or my own business's", "start": 5695.719, "end": 5702}, {"text": "interests not that of a third", "start": 5702, "end": 5706}, {"text": "party and then I think this goes to the second question the third bullet says if the constituents business or financial", "start": 5709.84, "end": 5716.88}, {"text": "interests are not implicated the communication Falls outside the definition of lobbying so no registry", "start": 5716.88, "end": 5724}, {"text": "would be required and the fourth bullet just reiterates the point I made which is a", "start": 5724, "end": 5730.199}, {"text": "constituent lobbying on behalf of one or more third parties does not fall within the constituent exemption it's only if", "start": 5730.199, "end": 5736.44}, {"text": "it's their personal or their personal business interest that they're trying to", "start": 5736.44, "end": 5743.679}, {"text": "advance uh councelor Paul did you have a question go ahead I I want to ask you um", "start": 5743.96, "end": 5749.44}, {"text": "let's say I belong to a church right a big church and they're doing a construction right and the people in the", "start": 5749.44, "end": 5756.239}, {"text": "church always ask me things because I go to that church so they's say they want", "start": 5756.239, "end": 5761.6}, {"text": "to put a light in front of the church because it's going to be 1,600 people going to that church going out and they", "start": 5761.6, "end": 5767.4}, {"text": "need a light I'd say and so they Lobby me to make sure I do is that lobbying they a lot of people live in my", "start": 5767.4, "end": 5774.28}, {"text": "constituent I go to that church what's Lobby or not am I not supposed to talk to anybody okay are you a light you mean", "start": 5774.28, "end": 5781.84}, {"text": "a traffic light in the street a traffic light or or yeah or the expansion of the church and they ask me when is the", "start": 5781.84, "end": 5788.44}, {"text": "development going to like how when are they going to stamp it you know and they", "start": 5788.44, "end": 5793.6}, {"text": "ask me because I go to that church well there an entity or a group", "start": 5793.6, "end": 5799.08}, {"text": "or nonprofit so yeah nonprofit so it's okay it's okay all right that that's", "start": 5799.08, "end": 5806.56}, {"text": "okay um can we go to slide 28 I think", "start": 5808.04, "end": 5814.06}, {"text": "[Applause] are developers and their agents required to be registered in the city's registry", "start": 5814.06, "end": 5820.119}, {"text": "when there is an active Land Development application submitted Andor an application that is under appeal at the", "start": 5820.119, "end": 5828.36}, {"text": "Olt uh the answer not necessarily developers agents are required to register if they intend to communicate", "start": 5828.36, "end": 5834.56}, {"text": "with a public office holder to advance an application or to encourage the", "start": 5834.56, "end": 5840.76}, {"text": "counselor to get the municipality to withdraw for examp example an appeal uh that is an equal business or", "start": 5840.76, "end": 5848.76}, {"text": "uh financial interest however registration is not required for the following Exempted", "start": 5848.76, "end": 5854.96}, {"text": "Communications uh all of which really fall within the term routine", "start": 5854.96, "end": 5861.04}, {"text": "Communications uh well the first one actually isn't that's providing general information about the", "start": 5861.119, "end": 5868.08}, {"text": "application uh or to inquire about the application review process so that's Exempted", "start": 5868.08, "end": 5874.08}, {"text": "if the communication is part of the normal course of the approval process like I said I am hardpressed to think of", "start": 5874.08, "end": 5882.119}, {"text": "any where a a senior management team person or a member of council would be involved in the normal course of the", "start": 5882.119, "end": 5889.88}, {"text": "approval process uh this to me contemplates routine filings and", "start": 5889.88, "end": 5895.679}, {"text": "follow-ups for timing Etc and whether the application is", "start": 5895.679, "end": 5902.8}, {"text": "complete uh if the communication is with respect to planning or development applications", "start": 5902.8, "end": 5909.04}, {"text": "then the officer or employee has a role in the processing of the planning or", "start": 5909.04, "end": 5914.119}, {"text": "development application during the formal pre-application consultation the filing of the application and the", "start": 5914.119, "end": 5921.08}, {"text": "application review process including the preparation of development agreements so again it's supposed to", "start": 5921.08, "end": 5928}, {"text": "be routine type Communications not", "start": 5928, "end": 5933.76}, {"text": "ask for support of that particular development or you know trying to encourage uh a a", "start": 5933.76, "end": 5941.84}, {"text": "member of council or or else someone else to abandon an appeal for", "start": 5941.84, "end": 5949.88}, {"text": "example next slide does the code prohibit elected", "start": 5952.04, "end": 5958.4}, {"text": "members of council for meeting with developers now now this was a code of conduct question", "start": 5958.4, "end": 5963.88}, {"text": "developers and their agents when their lands are under appeal are members of council required", "start": 5963.88, "end": 5970.239}, {"text": "to disclose to the municipality when and if contact was made by a developer Andor their agent for a file that is under", "start": 5970.239, "end": 5977.84}, {"text": "appeal so the the answer to the first question is that there's no", "start": 5977.84, "end": 5983.239}, {"text": "prohibition on meeting um the the in all likelihood the uh", "start": 5983.239, "end": 5992.28}, {"text": "developer should be registered the developer and or their agent should be", "start": 5992.28, "end": 5997.76}, {"text": "registered um we bring to your attention uh section 10 of the code of conduct the", "start": 5997.76, "end": 6003.639}, {"text": "third bullet of which states attempting to secure preferential treatment Beyond", "start": 6003.639, "end": 6010.239}, {"text": "activities in which members normally engage on behalf of constituents as part of their official duties you may want to", "start": 6010.239, "end": 6016.96}, {"text": "consider whether uh the their involvement you're being asked to engage", "start": 6016.96, "end": 6024}, {"text": "is is of that nature um and members of council are not", "start": 6024, "end": 6032.639}, {"text": "required to disclose if they were contacted by a developer or their agent for a file that is under appeal once", "start": 6032.639, "end": 6039.119}, {"text": "again the onus to register as a lobbyist is that of the lobbyist uh there's no onus on members of", "start": 6039.119, "end": 6045.52}, {"text": "council uh to do that but I would hope that you would pick up", "start": 6045.52, "end": 6051.96}, {"text": "the phone and or you know I you don't need to go to the trouble of checking the lobbyist regist stre yourself but um", "start": 6051.96, "end": 6060.719}, {"text": "call and and alert the lobbyist registar of that communication", "start": 6060.719, "end": 6066.44}, {"text": "because if you have reason to believe that they aren't registered but again no obligation", "start": 6066.44, "end": 6073.4}, {"text": "there so that concludes our presentation thanks for your patience and", "start": 6073.4, "end": 6078.8}, {"text": "uh again I I hope that you will encourage um anyone that's speaking to you to", "start": 6078.8, "end": 6086.199}, {"text": "register if if it if it seems that they're trying to advance a business or financial interest even though you're", "start": 6086.199, "end": 6091.44}, {"text": "not obligated to do so thank you thank you Mr bosan there's", "start": 6091.44, "end": 6096.48}, {"text": "a couple of questions I believe we have councelor Moren", "start": 6096.48, "end": 6101.599}, {"text": "Wilson thank you mayor thank you um on your last slide just in", "start": 6101.76, "end": 6108.08}, {"text": "summary if there's a land use planning matter", "start": 6108.08, "end": 6113.4}, {"text": "under appeal to be heard by the tribunal you can meet with the developer", "start": 6113.4, "end": 6120.4}, {"text": "but in so doing separately that could be construed uh as a code of conduct", "start": 6120.4, "end": 6127.32}, {"text": "violation is that what you're saying no I if you act on it by attempting to", "start": 6127.32, "end": 6135}, {"text": "influence in a manner that's um determined to be securing", "start": 6135, "end": 6144}, {"text": "trying to secure a preferential treatment beyond that which members normally", "start": 6144, "end": 6149.679}, {"text": "engage um as part of their official duties that could be regarded as a a breach of the code of conduct but not", "start": 6149.679, "end": 6155.88}, {"text": "simply listening to their their pleas it's it's any action you take uh on", "start": 6155.88, "end": 6163.719}, {"text": "those pleas that could be", "start": 6163.719, "end": 6166.8}, {"text": "scrutinized and and thank you so any action you", "start": 6169.36, "end": 6175.119}, {"text": "take would be scrutinized if if it was", "start": 6175.48, "end": 6180.84}, {"text": "considered under a review by the Integrity commissioner that you were", "start": 6180.84, "end": 6186.28}, {"text": "perhaps delinquent on your fiduciary responsibility and instead in your Vote", "start": 6186.28, "end": 6192.8}, {"text": "or your advocacy on around the chamber advancing not the corporate interest but", "start": 6192.8, "end": 6200.719}, {"text": "the private interest I'm just trying to make sure I understand understand what you're the council you're", "start": 6200.719, "end": 6207.36}, {"text": "offering okay so here's a good example not from this minicipal I can't imagine this happening in Hamilton but in", "start": 6207.719, "end": 6214.199}, {"text": "another minicipal that I'm aware uh I know of a situation where a counselor", "start": 6214.199, "end": 6219.28}, {"text": "approached um uh senior manage uh de uh Planning and Development", "start": 6219.28, "end": 6225.84}, {"text": "Management on behalf of a developer and tried to encourage them to abandon an appeal that the municipality was taking", "start": 6225.84, "end": 6232.719}, {"text": "from a decision in favor of the developer um so", "start": 6232.719, "end": 6239.599}, {"text": "that's an example I would say of abusing your your Authority and and acting in a", "start": 6239.599, "end": 6246.119}, {"text": "way that you're trying to secure preferential treatment so it was an attempt to Lobby staff to abandon an", "start": 6246.119, "end": 6254.4}, {"text": "appeal and and that is a clear clearly a code of conduct", "start": 6254.4, "end": 6260.04}, {"text": "violation counc Wilson", "start": 6260.04, "end": 6264.4}, {"text": "so your measure", "start": 6268.599, "end": 6272.159}, {"text": "is your your measure is what you do", "start": 6274.92, "end": 6282.84}, {"text": "with that the example you gave in relation to another public office holder", "start": 6282.84, "end": 6289.119}, {"text": "it's not what you seek to advance um around the the table on their", "start": 6289.119, "end": 6297.48}, {"text": "behalf as long as they're registered they should be registered I mean but even then you're not at fault or you're", "start": 6297.48, "end": 6303.88}, {"text": "not the one that's going to be I'm asking myus Spar more specifically the", "start": 6303.88, "end": 6309.28}, {"text": "on your slide you made the distinction between", "start": 6309.28, "end": 6314.36}, {"text": "um a lobbyist measure and a code of conduct measure and I suppose because", "start": 6314.36, "end": 6320.28}, {"text": "you put that on the slide I'm asking for for further clarification on the measure", "start": 6320.28, "end": 6325.36}, {"text": "on the code well somebody asked me the question about the code I didn't I I", "start": 6325.36, "end": 6332.599}, {"text": "just it may not be verbatim but it's the gist of the question that a counselor put forward about does the code prohibit", "start": 6332.599, "end": 6340.56}, {"text": "this and because it seemed related to the subject matter of this uh training", "start": 6340.56, "end": 6348.159}, {"text": "seminar I I thought yes let's address it and and that's why I referred to a code", "start": 6348.159, "end": 6354.92}, {"text": "uh issue here that was a question I got from a counselor", "start": 6354.92, "end": 6361.96}, {"text": "um Council Wilson I'll take my query offline I think it's an important distinction sir", "start": 6365.28, "end": 6372.52}, {"text": "I'm happy to speak to anyone uh privately over the phone by email uh about anything that wasn't clear to you", "start": 6372.52, "end": 6380.28}, {"text": "or uh that that I could uh give a better explanation of or deal with specific", "start": 6380.28, "end": 6388.8}, {"text": "examples okay I don't see any other questions do we have any other questions", "start": 6388.8, "end": 6393.96}, {"text": "around the table I don't see any any questions from the", "start": 6393.96, "end": 6400.08}, {"text": "staff okay we don't see any so it's a thank you very much Mr booin appreciate", "start": 6400.52, "end": 6407.48}, {"text": "your um presentation I appreciate your slide uh deck I appreciate your availability for followup for uh", "start": 6407.48, "end": 6415.4}, {"text": "questions that might come as people ruminate on uh the discussion we've had today the workshop that we've that we've", "start": 6415.4, "end": 6421.84}, {"text": "had um and so I would now then ask for a", "start": 6421.84, "end": 6427.119}, {"text": "motion to receive the lobbyist registry training um and uh just wanted to say", "start": 6427.119, "end": 6433.679}, {"text": "again thank you to uh to the staff Chris and others who are here uh in terms of", "start": 6433.679, "end": 6439.76}, {"text": "the administration of this as well as uh AAL Allan your associate uh Mr bosan and", "start": 6439.76, "end": 6445.76}, {"text": "yourself uh thanks so much for spending uh this time with us and counselors thank you for your participation in the", "start": 6445.76, "end": 6451.88}, {"text": "workshop I think it was very very valuable um we'll now go for that motion to receive the lobbyist registry", "start": 6451.88, "end": 6458.92}, {"text": "training moved by Counselor Clark seconded by counselor Francis um please uh indicate your vote you're", "start": 6458.92, "end": 6467.119}, {"text": "well welcome to uh take a seat get a glass of water do whatever you need to do thank you um so I guess the um", "start": 6467.119, "end": 6475.96}, {"text": "motions on the floor to receive is there any discussion on the motion to receive", "start": 6475.96, "end": 6481.92}, {"text": "oh sorry what was that the the vote was already up but we would normally ask if", "start": 6481.92, "end": 6488.48}, {"text": "there's any further discussion and just wanted to make sure we do that seeing none we had ample time so we'll go to", "start": 6488.48, "end": 6494.599}, {"text": "the vote sorry about that", "start": 6494.599, "end": 6498.56}, {"text": "I oh I'm not on Open Session that's why yes I'm thumbs", "start": 6507.84, "end": 6514.44}, {"text": "up that carries 12 to Zero thanks very much uh councelor Bey may I have a", "start": 6519.159, "end": 6524.32}, {"text": "motion on the the bill absolutely mayor it's my pleasure to bring forward the following motion", "start": 6524.32, "end": 6531.04}, {"text": "that bill number 24 234 be passed and let the corporate seal be a fixed there", "start": 6531.04, "end": 6536.719}, {"text": "too and that the bylaw be numbered and signed by the mayor and the city clerk to read as follows 234 to confirm the", "start": 6536.719, "end": 6544.36}, {"text": "proceedings of city council moved by myself and seconded by councelor Brad Clark thanks very much uh any many", "start": 6544.36, "end": 6553.599}, {"text": "speakers on the bill seeing none we'll go to the vote please", "start": 6553.599, "end": 6559.92}, {"text": "and that carries 12 to zero um do we need a motion to adjourn", "start": 6574.199, "end": 6580.44}, {"text": "now or did we just do that I'll take a motion from councelor casar seconded by councelor man Nan to adjourn the meeting", "start": 6580.44, "end": 6587.8}, {"text": "uh please um put the vote up thank you", "start": 6587.8, "end": 6593.598}, {"text": "thank you councelor clerk the last one of the Year Merry", "start": 6595, "end": 6602.96}, {"text": "Christmas carries 12 to Zero thanks very much everyone", "start": 6612.239, "end": 6618.28}]