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{"text": "e", "start": 1856.919, "end": 1859.919}, {"text": "e", "start": 1886.919, "end": 1889.919}, {"text": "e", "start": 1916.84, "end": 1919.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 1946.84, "end": 1949.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 1976.84, "end": 1979.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 2006.76, "end": 2009.76}, {"text": "e", "start": 2036.72, "end": 2039.72}, {"text": "e", "start": 2066.72, "end": 2069.72}, {"text": "e", "start": 2096.64, "end": 2099.64}, {"text": "e", "start": 2126.64, "end": 2129.64}, {"text": "e", "start": 2156.64, "end": 2159.64}, {"text": "e", "start": 2186.56, "end": 2189.56}, {"text": "e", "start": 2216.52, "end": 2219.52}, {"text": "e", "start": 2246.52, "end": 2249.52}, {"text": "e", "start": 2276.44, "end": 2279.44}, {"text": "e", "start": 2306.44, "end": 2309.44}, {"text": "e", "start": 2336.44, "end": 2339.44}, {"text": "e e", "start": 2366.359, "end": 2370.359}, {"text": "good afternoon everyone uh as we have Quorum present for today's meeting I'd like to call this meeting of the Hamilton Municipal Heritage committee to", "start": 2411.68, "end": 2417.68}, {"text": "order um just a reminder that all electronic devices are to be switched to a non-audible function during our", "start": 2417.68, "end": 2423.079}, {"text": "committee meetings we will start off with our roll call if I could just get everyone to respond whether they are", "start": 2423.079, "end": 2428.88}, {"text": "here or not um we'll begin with councelor cret I'm here Karen Burke present Graham", "start": 2428.88, "end": 2436.92}, {"text": "Carroll present Andrew Douglas present ly lead present Andy", "start": 2436.92, "end": 2444.8}, {"text": "McLaren pres and Stefan", "start": 2444.8, "end": 2450.72}, {"text": "pres thank you everyone um Mr clerk are there any changes to the agenda", "start": 2450.72, "end": 2455.92}, {"text": "today yes ma'am Madam chair we have a few changes to the agenda under item six delegation request we have two out of", "start": 2455.92, "end": 2462.359}, {"text": "delegations respecting item 8.1 Heritage permit application HP 20240 33 under", "start": 2462.359, "end": 2469.44}, {"text": "Section 34 of the Ontario Ontario Heritage act for the demolition of the T", "start": 2469.44, "end": 2475.4}, {"text": "tiv Lobby and auditorium at 108 James Street North and 111 to 113 Houston", "start": 2475.4, "end": 2481.72}, {"text": "Street North Hamilton ped 24232 W 2 for today's meeting", "start": 2481.72, "end": 2487.8}, {"text": "and we under staff presentations item 8.1 the presentation respecting that", "start": 2487.8, "end": 2492.96}, {"text": "item has been uploaded and under consent items item 9.3 the Heritage permit", "start": 2492.96, "end": 2498.48}, {"text": "review subcommittee minutes for November 12th 2024 was", "start": 2498.48, "end": 2504.16}, {"text": "added thank you Mr clerk may I have a mover in a second or to approve the agenda as amended I see Graham and Karen", "start": 2504.2, "end": 2511.64}, {"text": "and as we move to vote is there anyone opposed seeing none that item is carried", "start": 2511.64, "end": 2517.319}, {"text": "um I will now uh turn chair over to Graham for our next item which is Declarations of", "start": 2517.319, "end": 2522.76}, {"text": "Interest okay does anyone have any conflicts of interest Declarations of interest um so I'll declare uh so for", "start": 2522.76, "end": 2530.2}, {"text": "the property known as 108 jamest Street North and 111 to 113 Houston Street North ATIV um I don't have a direct", "start": 2530.2, "end": 2537.28}, {"text": "connection to the property but the current owner of the property is a client of the architectural firm that I work", "start": 2537.28, "end": 2542.839}, {"text": "for um I'll also declare interest on 537 King Street East uh which is the rebels", "start": 2542.839, "end": 2548.16}, {"text": "Rock um The Firm that I work for is the architect for the restoration and Redevelopment of that", "start": 2548.16, "end": 2554.64}, {"text": "project any more conflicts he may have a mover and a", "start": 2555.52, "end": 2563.2}, {"text": "secretor on the wrong", "start": 2563.28, "end": 2566.72}, {"text": "pach take back chair that's right our next item is the approval of the minutes of the previous meeting we have before", "start": 2568.88, "end": 2574.319}, {"text": "us um November 22nd 2024 may have a mover and a seconder to approve the minutes as", "start": 2574.319, "end": 2581.68}, {"text": "presented I see Lyn and Andy and are there any discussions in", "start": 2581.68, "end": 2586.72}, {"text": "regards to those minutes or any comments as we move to vote is there anyone", "start": 2586.72, "end": 2592.4}, {"text": "opposed seeing none that item is carried uh I'll now pass on the uh next", "start": 2592.4, "end": 2598.52}, {"text": "item is our Communications item and I'll pass that CH over to gram hey uh may I please have a mover in", "start": 2598.52, "end": 2605.72}, {"text": "a secondary to put the communication items on the floor I see Council the", "start": 2605.72, "end": 2611.559}, {"text": "councelor and Taran okay so uh item 5.1 correspondence", "start": 2611.559, "end": 2619}, {"text": "representing respecting item 8.1 Heritage permit application HP 2024", "start": 2619, "end": 2624.599}, {"text": "under Section 34 interial Health act so the recommendation has been", "start": 2624.599, "end": 2629.64}, {"text": "received and referred to consideration of item 8.1 is there any discussion on this", "start": 2629.64, "end": 2635.88}, {"text": "communication item so if there's no discussion we'll vote", "start": 2635.88, "end": 2642}, {"text": "on receiving just", "start": 2642, "end": 2644.96}, {"text": "5.1 okay move second or please no we've already got that she just can call for", "start": 2647.8, "end": 2653.92}, {"text": "the vote okay oh anyone oppose seeing none motion", "start": 2653.92, "end": 2661.839}, {"text": "carries um taking back the chair is there any discussion on the balance of our communication items we have item 5.2", "start": 2661.92, "end": 2667.8}, {"text": "to 5.3 5.4 and 5.5 is there any discussion or questions if not we'll", "start": 2667.8, "end": 2673.52}, {"text": "move to vote on those items is there anyone opposed seeing none that item is carried", "start": 2673.52, "end": 2680.599}, {"text": "and I will now turn the chair back over to", "start": 2680.599, "end": 2684.078}, {"text": "CR so this now a delegation requests may I please have a mover in a secondary to", "start": 2686.119, "end": 2691.359}, {"text": "approve the delegation requests I see the counselor and Andrew is there any discussion if not", "start": 2691.359, "end": 2697.76}, {"text": "we'll go to vote seeing none is there anyone", "start": 2697.76, "end": 2705.04}, {"text": "opposed see none motion", "start": 2705.96, "end": 2709.72}, {"text": "carries so before we get our delegation for today's members are reminded that questions of the delegations are for the", "start": 2711.119, "end": 2717.96}, {"text": "clarification purposes only not for debate and a note to the delegates you have five minutes to complete your", "start": 2717.96, "end": 2724.28}, {"text": "delegation you will hear a tone after 4 minutes and you will have an additional minute to finish up so under item 7.1", "start": 2724.28, "end": 2732.24}, {"text": "delegations respecting item 8.1 Heritage permit application HP 2024 033 under", "start": 2732.24, "end": 2738.76}, {"text": "Section 34 of the interial Heritage act for the demolition of the tiv lobby and auditorium at 108 James Street North and", "start": 2738.76, "end": 2746.16}, {"text": "11113 Houston Street South so first off we have Carol pamel of the Beverly", "start": 2746.16, "end": 2751.96}, {"text": "neighborhood association", "start": 2751.96, "end": 2755.44}, {"text": "hi okay so okay R you can put it up now you can", "start": 2772.359, "end": 2781.64}, {"text": "start testing testing that's pretty good", "start": 2781.64, "end": 2787.519}, {"text": "yeah okay", "start": 2789.44, "end": 2793.44}, {"text": "we're just having a bit of a difficulty sharing the delegates presentation just bear with", "start": 2843.559, "end": 2849.52}, {"text": "us", "start": 2875.839, "end": 2878.839}, {"text": "for", "start": 2905.76, "end": 2908.76}, {"text": "for for", "start": 2935.72, "end": 2939.76}, {"text": "C", "start": 2990.28, "end": 2993.28}, {"text": "would you mind if we take a recess and we'll get we'll get you all set up no I don't mind", "start": 3025.52, "end": 3032.839}, {"text": "okay yeah okay move in second for five minute recess necessary 10- minute", "start": 3032.839, "end": 3040.64}, {"text": "recess I see Lyn and Andrew anyone to post motion", "start": 3040.839, "end": 3049.16}, {"text": "carries", "start": 3055.64, "end": 3058.64}, {"text": "e", "start": 3085.559, "end": 3088.559}, {"text": "e", "start": 3115.52, "end": 3118.52}, {"text": "e", "start": 3145.52, "end": 3148.52}, {"text": "e", "start": 3175.44, "end": 3178.44}, {"text": "e", "start": 3205.44, "end": 3208.44}, {"text": "e", "start": 3235.44, "end": 3238.44}, {"text": "e", "start": 3265.359, "end": 3268.359}, {"text": "e", "start": 3295.319, "end": 3298.319}, {"text": "e", "start": 3325.319, "end": 3328.319}, {"text": "e", "start": 3355.24, "end": 3358.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 3385.24, "end": 3388.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 3415.24, "end": 3418.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 3445.16, "end": 3448.16}, {"text": "e", "start": 3475.119, "end": 3478.119}, {"text": "e", "start": 3505.119, "end": 3508.119}, {"text": "e", "start": 3535.039, "end": 3538.039}, {"text": "e e", "start": 3565.039, "end": 3569.079}, {"text": "like to welcome welcome back Carol pel to the podium sorry I didn't introduce you earlier Carol has been a longtime", "start": 3625.359, "end": 3630.599}, {"text": "member of the Heritage per review subcommittee really involved in Heritage in Hamilton and it's a pleasure to have", "start": 3630.599, "end": 3636.72}, {"text": "you here to speak to us today thank you thanks thanks Graham Mr chair members of", "start": 3636.72, "end": 3642.319}, {"text": "the Hamilton Municipal Heritage committee councelor crutch uh City staff media other", "start": 3642.319, "end": 3650.119}, {"text": "presenters and ladies and gentlemen thank you for the opportunity to speak to this particular uh", "start": 3650.119, "end": 3656.44}, {"text": "site involved uh in um in a application", "start": 3656.44, "end": 3662.4}, {"text": "for approval of De demolition um I I am actually representing the BNA because I've been", "start": 3662.4, "end": 3668.72}, {"text": "with them since I've come to Hamilton and um I'm the Heritage Board member who", "start": 3668.72, "end": 3676.28}, {"text": "they sort of come to for you know any questions or if there's anything happening in Beasley I tend to get on it", "start": 3676.28, "end": 3683.2}, {"text": "and I also am a the project uh coordinator so we've done a lot of projects so um we've actually been", "start": 3683.2, "end": 3691.359}, {"text": "through this sorry we've actually been through um uh the tiv a tiv proposal by", "start": 3691.359, "end": 3699.16}, {"text": "a former owner so that's that shows that BNA has a bit more involvement in it", "start": 3699.16, "end": 3705.76}, {"text": "than perhaps other neighborhoods might um myself I've got 30 years experience", "start": 3705.76, "end": 3712.16}, {"text": "um working on inheritage with every of government as staff contract consultant", "start": 3712.16, "end": 3718.68}, {"text": "with the ministry of culture uh as a community development officer and a consultant on Heritage impact studies", "start": 3718.68, "end": 3725.839}, {"text": "adaptive reuse and I was actually on the um involved in the Elgen winter Garten", "start": 3725.839, "end": 3731.48}, {"text": "project which when they first opened the winter Garten um after 50 years of it being closed I documented the whole", "start": 3731.48, "end": 3738.359}, {"text": "thing like every piece of it so it was really a remarkable experience I'm not", "start": 3738.359, "end": 3743.68}, {"text": "going to go into too much here because um uh I only have five minutes and I have 13 slides so as you could see it kind of", "start": 3743.68, "end": 3752.079}, {"text": "grows and grows so next please uh this shows what I was going to", "start": 3752.079, "end": 3757.799}, {"text": "say and while I'm talking here um I'll just let you know that uh the BNA and", "start": 3757.799, "end": 3764.839}, {"text": "other of the Heritage uh Advocates um felt that this building was going to be", "start": 3764.839, "end": 3770.24}, {"text": "restored twice at two times uh the damante owner uh part of uh their their", "start": 3770.24, "end": 3776.599}, {"text": "um you know their uh development proposal had to do with develop area rest restoring the Chile theater and", "start": 3776.599, "end": 3784.039}, {"text": "then um next slide please and then on April 2022 when Adventist took it over", "start": 3784.039, "end": 3790.2}, {"text": "we got this headline tiv theater to be restored by new owners so um it came as", "start": 3790.2, "end": 3796.96}, {"text": "quite a shock that it was going to be demol when um uh you know I attended the", "start": 3796.96, "end": 3802.76}, {"text": "hermit Heritage permit Review Committee uh meeting and uh I was NE you know", "start": 3802.76, "end": 3809.64}, {"text": "naturally uh sort of more upset than I am now having done a lot of research", "start": 3809.64, "end": 3814.799}, {"text": "spoken with the city and um I just want to go through a few things that I just", "start": 3814.799, "end": 3820.68}, {"text": "want to point out I thought there would be more public here and maybe it would be uh beneficial for them to know uh", "start": 3820.68, "end": 3827.359}, {"text": "what the city has to use you know what the owners have to do um but they're not", "start": 3827.359, "end": 3833.039}, {"text": "there's not that many but I'll just I'll just do it anyway okay next next", "start": 3833.039, "end": 3838.44}, {"text": "slide okay um everybody I think knows about the Ontario Heritage act tools", "start": 3838.44, "end": 3844.44}, {"text": "that um designated properties are given uh her um Heritage designated Heritage", "start": 3844.44, "end": 3851.039}, {"text": "is given um considerable protection if the municipality uh decides to use it um", "start": 3851.039, "end": 3859.599}, {"text": "that there is actually a $1 million fine which you probably already know for an uh demolition that's not approved", "start": 3859.599, "end": 3866.319}, {"text": "um and there's fines and um you can actually the city can go in and fix a building that's neglected um and send a", "start": 3866.319, "end": 3873.72}, {"text": "Bild to the owner so that's there are and there's several other parts to it", "start": 3873.72, "end": 3878.839}, {"text": "but okay next slide this is the glory that was the tiv", "start": 3878.839, "end": 3884.799}, {"text": "not too long ago and then next Slide the ravages of neglect um we are having a", "start": 3884.799, "end": 3892.4}, {"text": "real challenge with um demolition by neglect and neglect of other uh", "start": 3892.4, "end": 3898.64}, {"text": "particular um sites so I'm going to go um I'm not going to talk about the", "start": 3898.64, "end": 3904.4}, {"text": "secondary plan because I'll will lose all my time but I want to go to next yes I want to go to the a", "start": 3904.4, "end": 3911.279}, {"text": "compromise in Kingston with Heritage preservation and and um high-rise development with a theater involved and", "start": 3911.279, "end": 3918.2}, {"text": "so you see on the left there's the Capitol Theater and the Kingston ad uh Heritage Advocate spent a ton of money", "start": 3918.2, "end": 3924.76}, {"text": "legally like $100,000 to try to defend this and uh so there was a compromise", "start": 3924.76, "end": 3930.92}, {"text": "which is the facade is still there was originally going to be torn down and then you see the building in the back", "start": 3930.92, "end": 3937.119}, {"text": "okay restoration and reuse this is another example of restorations that nobody thought would happen this is just", "start": 3937.119, "end": 3944.359}, {"text": "current the empress theater in Montreal it has um a burnt out uh really decrepit", "start": 3944.359, "end": 3952.2}, {"text": "interior and it's going to be um uh it was bought by the city and it's now", "start": 3952.2, "end": 3957.96}, {"text": "going to be sold and then just one more slide I just want to show you that's a precedent for Heritage rescue and the", "start": 3957.96, "end": 3965.079}, {"text": "next one you must see there this is Detroit this is a building that as you", "start": 3965.079, "end": 3970.68}, {"text": "can see is totally like on collapse uh you know ready to collapse uh and uh", "start": 3970.68, "end": 3977.92}, {"text": "somebody uh fixed it up so um and going forward I have some options and", "start": 3977.92, "end": 3984.96}, {"text": "stabilize ation and security blah blah blah blah blah and you know what those are because you're the committee and", "start": 3984.96, "end": 3991.16}, {"text": "there's staff here so I don't have to go into that but thank you so much it's really nice to see so many familiar", "start": 3991.16, "end": 3997.359}, {"text": "faces here today and thanks Matt for your help thank you Carol does anyone have", "start": 3997.359, "end": 4004.119}, {"text": "any questions of the presenter Carol oh I'm sorry I'm sorry so Cameron or", "start": 4004.119, "end": 4011.16}, {"text": "Council crutch go ahead yeah thanks very much for your presentation Carol um and all the work that you do to try and preserve Heritage", "start": 4011.16, "end": 4017.76}, {"text": "in our core I had a question for you you gave us some representative examples of different kinds of situations where", "start": 4017.76, "end": 4023.92}, {"text": "Heritage has been restored and those are helpful for us to understand sort of what the powers we have are how the Heritage act works and seeing some some", "start": 4023.92, "end": 4030.319}, {"text": "examples especially downtown Hamilton where people said uh oh uh we're going to lose this building and then we put", "start": 4030.319, "end": 4035.359}, {"text": "the efforts into restore it my question for you is more so around the reports in front of us right so about the specific context for the tiv theater because I", "start": 4035.359, "end": 4041.799}, {"text": "think it's important that we look at this project look at it specifically what's being said about it um not withstanding the fact that of", "start": 4041.799, "end": 4047.88}, {"text": "course we understand what's been going on around it have you looked at the third party report from John G cook so", "start": 4047.88, "end": 4053.68}, {"text": "there was just to summarize so I'm being fair here there was the original engineering report by kasos engineering", "start": 4053.68, "end": 4059.44}, {"text": "um and those folks then there was a plus VG those folks did something and they have some restoration chops and then", "start": 4059.44, "end": 4066.359}, {"text": "there's a group here that's registered with you know Heritage professionals around the province John G cook and then they gave a report I'm wondering if you", "start": 4066.359, "end": 4072.839}, {"text": "had a chance to look at that what your comments on their specific uh specific report was yes I did uh actually Alyssa", "start": 4072.839, "end": 4079.4}, {"text": "sent me that with uh the staff report and I was very glad to see it because at", "start": 4079.4, "end": 4085.599}, {"text": "the permit review we were really concerned about getting a little bit more detail and maybe getting um you", "start": 4085.599, "end": 4092.319}, {"text": "know an independent uh look at it as I mentioned um and so I was very pleased", "start": 4092.319, "end": 4098.679}, {"text": "to see when I read that from Alissa that um there was so much more information", "start": 4098.679, "end": 4104.92}, {"text": "from those those two sources what did I think of it um it it seemed to be in", "start": 4104.92, "end": 4111.6}, {"text": "keeping with what was already said um it added more things they the funny thing", "start": 4111.6, "end": 4117.159}, {"text": "is is I found that they they weren't really explaining things um as if it was", "start": 4117.159, "end": 4122.199}, {"text": "going to be demolished which is interesting because sometimes a study will do that because they believe it's", "start": 4122.199, "end": 4129.04}, {"text": "it's going to be demolished so everything kind of goes that way and this didn't really go that way but it", "start": 4129.04, "end": 4134.08}, {"text": "still had the the more detail about what needed uh to be done and I definitely", "start": 4134.08, "end": 4140.359}, {"text": "could see that um for the tily at least what I got from it was that if if you", "start": 4140.359, "end": 4147.12}, {"text": "tried to restore it uh you basically have to rebuild it and then you'd have", "start": 4147.12, "end": 4152.4}, {"text": "to redecorate it from scratch again um after remediating everything that's in", "start": 4152.4, "end": 4158.679}, {"text": "it and they said that possibly it still would be a problem because of some of", "start": 4158.679, "end": 4165.04}, {"text": "the damage in the leaks that it has and uh those you know had sort of challenged", "start": 4165.04, "end": 4172.44}, {"text": "any kind of restoration hopes so yeah it it uh it helped me a lot to to get into", "start": 4172.44, "end": 4181.12}, {"text": "that with more more detail and I thought it was a you did it you did it really", "start": 4181.12, "end": 4186.679}, {"text": "quickly I didn't know and I'm really glad that it was done so that's what I I", "start": 4186.679, "end": 4192.48}, {"text": "can't remember any specific details but I do remember the part about you know what's on the walls it's kind of thank", "start": 4192.48, "end": 4199.4}, {"text": "you I really appreciate your Insight I had a a second question uh it's more bit bit more broad but of course it", "start": 4199.4, "end": 4205.04}, {"text": "obviously applies to the site as part of the report it talked about there being you know some safety issues with respect", "start": 4205.04, "end": 4212.199}, {"text": "to the structure and we've always seen around Hamilton unfortunately even recently you know where where that", "start": 4212.199, "end": 4217.56}, {"text": "balance is very tricky right you want to make sure that you preserve a building before it falls down for all kinds of", "start": 4217.56, "end": 4223.92}, {"text": "reasons um when something spont ously falls down it's obviously a huge safety risk and we also want to get preserve preserve things we can", "start": 4223.92, "end": 4231.04}, {"text": "before um an order to comply to destroy something also happens so there's like that balance and the report kind of", "start": 4231.04, "end": 4237.04}, {"text": "talks about that so I guess what's your perspective on that in terms of where where's that line you know in terms of", "start": 4237.04, "end": 4243.12}, {"text": "uh there's a worry that the building might deteriorate to the point where an order is is issued to say well we better", "start": 4243.12, "end": 4248.36}, {"text": "demolish it it's going to fall down um versus uh trying to trying to keep that thing going in the meantime because you", "start": 4248.36, "end": 4253.96}, {"text": "know it takes time as you know right to get from today December 13th to the point where we can restore a building in", "start": 4253.96, "end": 4259.84}, {"text": "the meantime right it's sitting there in the weather and the elements and that kind of stuff and there's a risk to it so I was just wondering what you think", "start": 4259.84, "end": 4265.199}, {"text": "about that kind of balancing act that we have to play as a city yes I I think", "start": 4265.199, "end": 4270.36}, {"text": "it's totally achievable because of the Ontario Heritage act and um the ability", "start": 4270.36, "end": 4276.6}, {"text": "of uh municipalities to uh to create a bylaw with more specific Heritage", "start": 4276.6, "end": 4283.04}, {"text": "Property Standards in addition to your already uh building standards which I've", "start": 4283.04, "end": 4289.199}, {"text": "read and I've also read the new G uh bylaw that uh because they were having", "start": 4289.199, "end": 4296.12}, {"text": "this problem of buildings being demolished without any approval plus buildings just uh being neglected in and", "start": 4296.12, "end": 4303.159}, {"text": "becoming um you know uh very unsound um that they enacted a bylaw just recently", "start": 4303.159, "end": 4311.239}, {"text": "that um has additional Property Standards that they will enforce and", "start": 4311.239, "end": 4317.28}, {"text": "that their inspections they have uh increased uh the timing for them which is really important and you just the", "start": 4317.28, "end": 4324.48}, {"text": "city just has to take that on as um part of um uh its policy uh of uh protecting", "start": 4324.48, "end": 4333.159}, {"text": "Heritage as an important resource for you know for for the community so um", "start": 4333.159, "end": 4338.719}, {"text": "it's all it's all there and and like I said uh G has done it and has provided", "start": 4338.719, "end": 4344.92}, {"text": "many any more details for Heritage I think it's just a great step forward and that's what I would do and I don't see", "start": 4344.92, "end": 4350.28}, {"text": "that if you start from now how that is going to happen I think this is the end", "start": 4350.28, "end": 4355.56}, {"text": "of it I really do I think I think it's going to be it's going to turn around now because what has happened has been", "start": 4355.56, "end": 4363.639}, {"text": "devastating for the people who've worked for Heritage and there are we're looking", "start": 4363.639, "end": 4368.679}, {"text": "into ways and that's that's one of the ideas cuz the other you know they're just a little bit more more General uh", "start": 4368.679, "end": 4375.199}, {"text": "maybe you have to look at um you know how you're going to how you going to enforce that yeah yeah thanks for thanks", "start": 4375.199, "end": 4382.6}, {"text": "for that comment and you mentioned something that I want to follow up on briefly which is about that it's an important resource for the community and", "start": 4382.6, "end": 4387.92}, {"text": "so you and I both know and I think everyone knows that it's been closed for quite some time now and hasn't really been there for the community to be used", "start": 4387.92, "end": 4394.32}, {"text": "no and so when you think about how this could be an important resource for the community are there some ideas you had or some thoughts you had about what that", "start": 4394.32, "end": 4400.239}, {"text": "looks like what you know what could a space like this uh be used for um in today's today's time where we see you", "start": 4400.239, "end": 4406.36}, {"text": "know theaters are obviously struggling to get attendance you know that kind of stuff what do you see um it could be in 2024 and Beyond as a resource for the", "start": 4406.36, "end": 4413.52}, {"text": "community yeah if you saved it if it remained and was remediated and restored", "start": 4413.52, "end": 4419.719}, {"text": "yeah I did think about that as a theater you mean uh well as a as a space as a building and not be torn down now I did", "start": 4419.719, "end": 4426}, {"text": "think about that because sometimes it's like since I've been inh Heritage conservation for my whole career I just", "start": 4426, "end": 4432.12}, {"text": "really want to save something that's important architecturally historically um community-wise", "start": 4432.12, "end": 4438.08}, {"text": "contextually um you know that's what I go for first but then you know the", "start": 4438.08, "end": 4443.92}, {"text": "question like you've asked is what do you do with it what are you going to do with it and I looked into that as well", "start": 4443.92, "end": 4449.719}, {"text": "and there are a number of theaters which have been restored or a few uh and they", "start": 4449.719, "end": 4455.239}, {"text": "provide that that space that was really needed in Hamilton so you have to ask yourself is that kind of space still", "start": 4455.239, "end": 4461.8}, {"text": "needed in Hamilton especially in that spot where it takes up a lot of land now", "start": 4461.8, "end": 4467.36}, {"text": "and you know what else could go in there so um I guess it would just be a matter", "start": 4467.36, "end": 4474.04}, {"text": "of um renting it um to an organization that would pay of course", "start": 4474.04, "end": 4481.04}, {"text": "and they would be using it for something like that I mean it is a huge capacity", "start": 4481.04, "end": 4486.28}, {"text": "theater so um you know you have to really think about it whether you could do big big music concerts in there that", "start": 4486.28, "end": 4493.719}, {"text": "you can't do elsewhere like like besides you know the um the this Hamilton the", "start": 4493.719, "end": 4501.04}, {"text": "center whatever I forget the name but Ontario Center yeah I mean that that's really enormous so um it can't like I", "start": 4501.04, "end": 4509.36}, {"text": "think so I usually think save it restore it and then figure out what you're going to do with it but actually I think it's", "start": 4509.36, "end": 4515.76}, {"text": "really important to kind of be proactive about about a plan for what you're going", "start": 4515.76, "end": 4521}, {"text": "to do with it but I don't think if you don't have something to do with it you should tear it down I don't think that's a criteria at all to tear it down", "start": 4521, "end": 4527.8}, {"text": "because there's no use for it there's always a use for it like it could be you know the Hamilton Museum which is", "start": 4527.8, "end": 4535.36}, {"text": "desperately needed you know thanks so much Carol thanks for being here today I appreciate your answers well thanks", "start": 4535.36, "end": 4540.6}, {"text": "Cameron for asking them anybody else he does anyone else have any questions of the", "start": 4540.6, "end": 4547.239}, {"text": "speaker no see no one does I have a couple oh good okay oh good okay uh", "start": 4548, "end": 4553.8}, {"text": "looking at the present d on the building sorry Sor if you could just hand the chair over to um someone else maybe", "start": 4553.8, "end": 4559.56}, {"text": "Karen could take it Karen can you take the chair please okay okay so looking at the", "start": 4559.56, "end": 4567.679}, {"text": "present condition of the building if they were to prevent further water incursion and environmental hassles do", "start": 4567.679, "end": 4574.36}, {"text": "you think it's possible to save the envelope and some of the Interior until they manage to get a plan to fix the", "start": 4574.36, "end": 4581.32}, {"text": "rest of it um well I'm not an author you know on um engineering and uh and", "start": 4581.32, "end": 4589}, {"text": "construction but um I have seen some you know pretty uh destroyed Interiors um", "start": 4589, "end": 4598.56}, {"text": "and I do believe that from just from my experience of seeing a lot of buildings in quite awful condition uh I think that", "start": 4598.56, "end": 4606.88}, {"text": "anything can be can be repaired and um and of course all the toxic material can", "start": 4606.88, "end": 4612.719}, {"text": "be remediated the thing is is that uh what you have then of course as you said", "start": 4612.719, "end": 4618.04}, {"text": "is the structure you know the actual just uh space and then you don't you", "start": 4618.04, "end": 4624.4}, {"text": "don't have the um this you're not going to be having uh what's in there now even", "start": 4624.4, "end": 4630.6}, {"text": "or has been which is that kind of Roman Revival um you know additions on the", "start": 4630.6, "end": 4636.32}, {"text": "walls on the ceiling those those would would go but uh you know my my next", "start": 4636.32, "end": 4643.639}, {"text": "consideration would be how would you put a development around it if if that development is approved um because it's", "start": 4643.639, "end": 4650.679}, {"text": "kind of it breaks up the area but no I would definitely always vote for", "start": 4650.679, "end": 4656}, {"text": "restoration because that's just what I believe in I I hope I answered it there yes you", "start": 4656, "end": 4663.28}, {"text": "did you I just want your experience on that I just know from working in the uh", "start": 4663.28, "end": 4668.96}, {"text": "steel industry what's possible for repairing stuff because I've seen some pretty blown out equipment also get", "start": 4668.96, "end": 4674.84}, {"text": "fixed yeah okay now the other part there's a proposal for uh a music hall across the street", "start": 4674.84, "end": 4682.28}, {"text": "here that's looking at $3 million in Grants you think it be make more sense to put it into that space and turn it", "start": 4682.28, "end": 4689.6}, {"text": "into a concert space instead of the concert hall across you think it' be better for the community yeah I really", "start": 4689.6, "end": 4694.639}, {"text": "think that that um interior it's uh as Diane will I think probably point out", "start": 4694.639, "end": 4700}, {"text": "when she comes up the Acoustics of that particular theater are like outstanding", "start": 4700, "end": 4707.04}, {"text": "um so I think it would lend itself very well to that and um I I think I read in", "start": 4707.04, "end": 4712.639}, {"text": "the addendum that it would cost $6 million to get the place sort of cleaned up stabilized uh and start from there so", "start": 4712.639, "end": 4721.76}, {"text": "it would it would cost that so if you could get grants or um some kind of", "start": 4721.76, "end": 4727.44}, {"text": "investment in you know uh from investors or Partners um you could do that I think", "start": 4727.44, "end": 4735.159}, {"text": "it would be a great space because you know how everybody uh is is in that area", "start": 4735.159, "end": 4740.44}, {"text": "for all of the uh super crawls and the and the art crawls and there's just a", "start": 4740.44, "end": 4745.679}, {"text": "lot of music in that area from you know sort of Wilson up there are a lot of uh", "start": 4745.679, "end": 4750.76}, {"text": "musicians and working um working bands and you know I I think it would be super", "start": 4750.76, "end": 4757.96}, {"text": "space but that's much just my opinion because you know I don't want it is beautiful and I I even the space is", "start": 4757.96, "end": 4764.8}, {"text": "beautiful even if you just you know took away all the decoration it still would be a great", "start": 4764.8, "end": 4770.719}, {"text": "space okay well thank you very much anyone else have any questions to followup sorry just want to pass the", "start": 4770.719, "end": 4777.36}, {"text": "Cher over to you okay all right well thanks for listening thank you for", "start": 4777.36, "end": 4782.639}, {"text": "presenting Carl good to see you thank you okay so next we have Dr Diane Dent", "start": 4782.639, "end": 4791}, {"text": "Diane's been a very long time advocate of uh par is here in the city of Hamilton was once chair of this finding", "start": 4791, "end": 4798.32}, {"text": "committee was on the Heritage permit review subcommittee for multiple years and right now was with the friends of", "start": 4798.32, "end": 4805.8}, {"text": "Oar I can't believe it I've been doing this for 50 years and it gets harder every year because most of you don't", "start": 4806.92, "end": 4813.159}, {"text": "know me so I'm going to have to speak very quickly because I've never had a a meeting where I had to be able to talk", "start": 4813.159, "end": 4819.56}, {"text": "for five minutes but I first I want to thank the municipal Heritage committee members of uh city council and I haven't", "start": 4819.56, "end": 4826.6}, {"text": "ever met C crutch and the staff thank you I am not a Heritage consultant I am", "start": 4826.6, "end": 4833.48}, {"text": "a Heritage Advocate since 1972 so I want to quickly tell you a", "start": 4833.48, "end": 4839.04}, {"text": "little bit about the background following the closing of the tily in 1989 Sam snyderman contacted me Sam was", "start": 4839.04, "end": 4846.8}, {"text": "considering selling the tily theater to a foundation or the city for a charitable receipt following a meeting", "start": 4846.8, "end": 4852.88}, {"text": "with councelor William Mulla I I contacted Carl Turkstra Albert alexanian and Chase Chester Waxman they agreed to", "start": 4852.88, "end": 4860.239}, {"text": "meet with Sam tour the tiv and discuss forming a foundation during the tour Sam", "start": 4860.239, "end": 4866.199}, {"text": "clapped his hands and told us that the tiv had the best Acoustics anywhere that he knew of in Toronto or Hamilton we all", "start": 4866.199, "end": 4873.76}, {"text": "met with with Sam in a coffee house on James Street to discuss the", "start": 4873.76, "end": 4878.96}, {"text": "details um and we were all excited unfortunately a day or two after the", "start": 4878.96, "end": 4884.239}, {"text": "meeting Sam called me to tell me that his brother Sid and his accountant told Sam not to sell the tiv and so the", "start": 4884.239, "end": 4891.96}, {"text": "foundation idea fell through as you know several years later", "start": 4891.96, "end": 4897.6}, {"text": "it was reported that in 2004 Sam Sniderman sold the tiv to belma delamonte of the Canadian ballet Youth", "start": 4897.6, "end": 4904.719}, {"text": "Orchestra for $2 we also learned that belma CEO of the ballet company a registered charity sold", "start": 4904.719, "end": 4912}, {"text": "the building to damante holding her husband for", "start": 4912, "end": 4917.679}, {"text": "900,000 in 2014 this is from the newspaper these aren't my ideas I would", "start": 4917.679, "end": 4923.6}, {"text": "like to know why was this allowed I was told by the architect in the neighboring building that when the vandals were", "start": 4923.6, "end": 4929.639}, {"text": "entering the vacant building and removing artifacts and copper wiring he", "start": 4929.639, "end": 4934.719}, {"text": "called damante the owner and reported these incidents but the owner did nothing since 2014 who in the city has", "start": 4934.719, "end": 4943}, {"text": "been responsible for inspecting the tiv a vacant Heritage building that concerns", "start": 4943, "end": 4948.199}, {"text": "me greatly January 2020 while I was volunteering to supervised McMaster", "start": 4948.199, "end": 4953.44}, {"text": "University fourth year history students for their public history practicum on the tiv the students asked the planning", "start": 4953.44, "end": 4960.199}, {"text": "department for inspection reports the students were told there were no inspection reports is it the policy of", "start": 4960.199, "end": 4967.88}, {"text": "the city of Hilton to inspect vacant buildings Heritage uh designated buildings every 4", "start": 4967.88, "end": 4974.88}, {"text": "months who is responsible for inspecting vacant buildings how many years has the", "start": 4974.88, "end": 4980.44}, {"text": "tibil not been inspected the ti in my personal opinion and a lot of other", "start": 4980.44, "end": 4986.239}, {"text": "people in this city we say the ti must not be demolished there are lots of examples in Canada and I can get them if", "start": 4986.239, "end": 4994.48}, {"text": "staff or this committee wants me to um that there have been as Carol pointed", "start": 4994.48, "end": 5000.32}, {"text": "out other buildings that are not maybe as great as this they've not been demolished so again I ask who is", "start": 5000.32, "end": 5007.76}, {"text": "responsible for the current state of the tily theater is it the owner and he didn't have inspections is", "start": 5007.76, "end": 5014.56}, {"text": "it the city is it the counselor who's responsible and who is responsible for", "start": 5014.56, "end": 5020.92}, {"text": "inspecting any vacant buildings the city in my opinion must engage an approved", "start": 5020.92, "end": 5027.199}, {"text": "Heritage engineer to examine the buildings and report back to council I have met uh Tacoma engineering and I", "start": 5027.199, "end": 5035.36}, {"text": "would like a second opinion or a third opinion one opinion in my opinion is not enough the city must investigate other", "start": 5035.36, "end": 5042.639}, {"text": "theater sites in Canada that were in a deteriorated state but have not been and", "start": 5042.639, "end": 5048.28}, {"text": "have been restored in the mean time this is important because you um Graham", "start": 5048.28, "end": 5054.56}, {"text": "Caroll asked uh a question about what the state is now so in my opinion in the", "start": 5054.56, "end": 5061.36}, {"text": "meantime security must be in place at the tiv theater to prevent a fire further vandalism the", "start": 5061.36, "end": 5068.04}, {"text": "roof must be repaired to prevent further water damaging so that is my uh", "start": 5068.04, "end": 5074.679}, {"text": "information for you and I'll be glad to ask any questions I just find this", "start": 5074.679, "end": 5079.96}, {"text": "devastating that this has happened thank you for letting me speak and to be", "start": 5079.96, "end": 5085.6}, {"text": "overwhelmed thank you for your presentation Dr nent was really enlightening does anyone have any", "start": 5085.6, "end": 5091.4}, {"text": "questions of the delegate go ahead", "start": 5091.4, "end": 5096.679}, {"text": "Andrew yeah thank you very much for that uh obviously I'm a lot newer to Hamilton than you are to the point where I've", "start": 5096.679, "end": 5102.44}, {"text": "never actually seen the tiv or the inside of it but I can tell you that you", "start": 5102.44, "end": 5107.719}, {"text": "know I definitely see the community I've heard overwhelmingly the community engagement for this particular piece of", "start": 5107.719, "end": 5113.239}, {"text": "property and what I'm really curious about and it sounds like you definitely have the history about it is why was it", "start": 5113.239, "end": 5120.159}, {"text": "chosen why was the designation kept after the front fell down that's very thank you for asking that I", "start": 5120.159, "end": 5128.119}, {"text": "was either chair of the of black act at that time or on the municipal um Heritage committee", "start": 5128.119, "end": 5136.88}, {"text": "and there are two sides to every story but the ceiling of", "start": 5137, "end": 5142.719}, {"text": "that um Frontage had a Heritage ceiling", "start": 5142.719, "end": 5148.52}, {"text": "but no one seemed to care and so it was demolished and that again is the reason", "start": 5148.52, "end": 5155.119}, {"text": "that I say one engineering company is not enough we had a Heritage Engineering", "start": 5155.119, "end": 5162.08}, {"text": "coming come to Hamilton for James Street", "start": 5162.08, "end": 5167.639}, {"text": "Baptist if you have three companies then some consideration is", "start": 5167.639, "end": 5174.679}, {"text": "made as to who is right who is wrong what can we do so to answer your", "start": 5174.679, "end": 5179.84}, {"text": "question why was that demolished I would say in my opinion", "start": 5179.84, "end": 5185}, {"text": "with little thought s just to clarify my question was actually why was the designation kept after it was demolished", "start": 5185, "end": 5191.96}, {"text": "so you lost the front of it a lot of people would say that's where the value is so why was it kept after that point you mean for the rest of the for the", "start": 5191.96, "end": 5197.96}, {"text": "rest of the building why is it still designated even though we lost because it's important there was the Acoustics", "start": 5197.96, "end": 5204.08}, {"text": "um and I'm sure that's uh Carol or someone U councelor crutch would have um", "start": 5204.08, "end": 5210.199}, {"text": "photographs of how incredible that building was inside all the Heritage", "start": 5210.199, "end": 5216.04}, {"text": "features the Heritage features were there when um a group of us toured um", "start": 5216.04, "end": 5222.36}, {"text": "the ti in 1989 and why was so if the designation", "start": 5222.36, "end": 5228.8}, {"text": "was still there why were inspections not taking place I think that's the Crux of", "start": 5228.8, "end": 5234.84}, {"text": "the question whether it's a small house that's designated whether it's um the", "start": 5234.84, "end": 5242.08}, {"text": "Bank of Montreal building or or uh the tiv", "start": 5242.08, "end": 5247.56}, {"text": "or any other building in town demolition by neglect is our", "start": 5247.56, "end": 5253.76}, {"text": "enemy I don't know whether all of you travel but I would suspect that some of", "start": 5253.76, "end": 5259.239}, {"text": "you have in 1972 we asked the counselors to tour Durand where there was", "start": 5259.239, "end": 5267.719}, {"text": "um easements that were given that shouldn't have been given so that the counselors on their own rented a a", "start": 5267.719, "end": 5274.32}, {"text": "little bus and went all Street by Street to see what buildings were endangered", "start": 5274.32, "end": 5280.52}, {"text": "and everybody's busy everybody's been worried about covid and what's going on in the world but perhaps the answer to", "start": 5280.52, "end": 5288.639}, {"text": "your question is if the mayor's office could hire a Mohawk student or a", "start": 5288.639, "end": 5295.08}, {"text": "McMaster student and the list for them would be what heritage buildings are", "start": 5295.08, "end": 5300.28}, {"text": "there in Hamilton when were they last um inspected and what is the reg the", "start": 5300.28, "end": 5308.52}, {"text": "legislation in this city for inspection of Heritage buildings I am told it may", "start": 5308.52, "end": 5315.6}, {"text": "be that I would have to call my counselor and say I'm worried about this", "start": 5315.6, "end": 5320.96}, {"text": "building it needs to be inspected I think the onus has to be certainly on", "start": 5320.96, "end": 5326.199}, {"text": "the citizens of Hamilton but it has to be on members of council I mean I'm not", "start": 5326.199, "end": 5332}, {"text": "applauding myself that for 50 years I've been a Heritage Advocate I moved from", "start": 5332, "end": 5337.08}, {"text": "Toronto Kipping and screaming and Herman Turkstra in 1972 said Diane I want you", "start": 5337.08, "end": 5343.719}, {"text": "to form the Duran neighborhood association and I said I'm a pediatric nurse I knew nothing about Heritage I", "start": 5343.719, "end": 5350.159}, {"text": "know nothing about uh neighborhood associations and now Herman sees me and", "start": 5350.159, "end": 5355.239}, {"text": "he says don't you talk about anything but Heritage and you know it's if you want to love your city you have to have", "start": 5355.239, "end": 5363}, {"text": "members of council members of this committee to take to take the Reigns and", "start": 5363, "end": 5369.119}, {"text": "be responsible and I am I'm devastated that there's so many", "start": 5369.119, "end": 5375.4}, {"text": "buildings James Street Baptist the tiv uh we're looking for a long-term", "start": 5375.4, "end": 5381.32}, {"text": "lease for Amar and you asked about funds Cameron crutch or maybe um Graham did", "start": 5381.32, "end": 5388.36}, {"text": "there are means um I have spoken with four large Developers", "start": 5388.36, "end": 5394.48}, {"text": "to talk about the restoration of okar you know that Joseph Manelli Luna", "start": 5394.48, "end": 5402.96}, {"text": "put in um a a submission for long-term", "start": 5402.96, "end": 5408.199}, {"text": "lease for OAR he was turned down and now he has a long-term lease for the shadok", "start": 5408.199, "end": 5414.88}, {"text": "belfer there are people in this city who have a lot of money and care they're not", "start": 5414.88, "end": 5420.4}, {"text": "all developers so I could go on and on I'm I'm very sorry I've taken so long to", "start": 5420.4, "end": 5425.8}, {"text": "answer your question anyone else have any questions", "start": 5425.8, "end": 5431.96}, {"text": "of the speaker oh Karen thank you um I just wanted to say", "start": 5431.96, "end": 5439.159}, {"text": "Diane Carol really appreciate you taking the time to come in here and speak to the committee today you presented", "start": 5439.159, "end": 5445.76}, {"text": "different perspectives and it is greatly appreciated and valued so thank you very much both of", "start": 5445.76, "end": 5451.36}, {"text": "you you're welcome", "start": 5451.36, "end": 5455.6}, {"text": "Cameron or councelor crunch yeah thanks and apologies for our", "start": 5456.92, "end": 5462.04}, {"text": "previous meetings not being memorable but I know we've met before um yeah a couple of questions for you you know you", "start": 5462.04, "end": 5468.199}, {"text": "talk about Council and I think it's important to get a bit more of a sense of how you see that role I mean", "start": 5468.199, "end": 5473.8}, {"text": "certainly we rely on our city staff and building engineers and I'm not an engineer and I know that in the 70s and", "start": 5473.8, "end": 5479.36}, {"text": "' 80s we had a board of control here where we had kind of professionals that were around and then they would sort of helped to supervise some of the", "start": 5479.36, "end": 5485}, {"text": "Departments and that was kind of the model for counselors and of course it's changed dramatically since then um but you said it a few times during your", "start": 5485, "end": 5490.96}, {"text": "comments that you think counselors or Council should be responsible for this and so you talked about the trajectory from 1989 to now I I suppose are there", "start": 5490.96, "end": 5498.8}, {"text": "certain things you think that should have happened or certain Milestones along the way where you think councel or counselor should have intervened um", "start": 5498.8, "end": 5504.719}, {"text": "certainly I've only been here for a couple years so you know I'm just trying to get a sense of what you're what you're needling at here or what", "start": 5504.719, "end": 5510.36}, {"text": "specifically you're trying to say thank you for your question question it gets back to", "start": 5510.36, "end": 5517.76}, {"text": "bylaws so you are the elected officials in my opinion I have to be", "start": 5517.76, "end": 5525.239}, {"text": "careful what I say it is up to council to receive advice from planning and in", "start": 5525.239, "end": 5533.239}, {"text": "my opinion again planning is different from Heritage people can plan but it's the Heritage Consultants who need to", "start": 5533.239, "end": 5540.8}, {"text": "give you advice but it's the bylaw Department who has to tell you and maybe", "start": 5540.8, "end": 5546.239}, {"text": "it's up to the counselors to say I have eight buildings in my ward or one", "start": 5546.239, "end": 5551.679}, {"text": "building in my ward I would like to know how often you inspect those buildings", "start": 5551.679, "end": 5558.159}, {"text": "because you are the elected official and I'm unfortunately we throw the questions", "start": 5558.159, "end": 5564.239}, {"text": "back at you if you're elected and your salary is being paying by us it is your", "start": 5564.239, "end": 5569.8}, {"text": "responsibility to get the the to propose the questions and to get the answers for", "start": 5569.8, "end": 5576.32}, {"text": "staff whether it's Road resurfacing whether it's your neighbor who doesn't keep up his property or whether it's our", "start": 5576.32, "end": 5584.159}, {"text": "glorious Heritage buildings that bring tourists to this city and also make", "start": 5584.159, "end": 5590.92}, {"text": "people happy to live here um I'm not happy right now fortunately", "start": 5590.92, "end": 5597.6}, {"text": "um we've had some wonderful successes in the past but you your question asking", "start": 5597.6, "end": 5605.119}, {"text": "who's responsible Bill Mulla used to call me and say Diane we're going to lose the uni the unified Family Court", "start": 5605.119, "end": 5612.04}, {"text": "what are you doing about it and so we had a neighborhood association so he would contact me and I would say in", "start": 5612.04, "end": 5618.76}, {"text": "today's world we have to c contact the counselors why you might be new to the", "start": 5618.76, "end": 5625.639}, {"text": "city you might know how not how to go about it um and maybe it's the responsibility of the neighborhood", "start": 5625.639, "end": 5632.119}, {"text": "associations to contact tag you more regularly with questions and again that", "start": 5632.119, "end": 5637.239}, {"text": "puts the onus back on the citizens but it also puts the onus in my opinion on", "start": 5637.239, "end": 5643.92}, {"text": "the counselors because you're the elected officials so that's that's helped me understand too to maybe send", "start": 5643.92, "end": 5651.159}, {"text": "all of you questions more often thanks for your perspective Diane I appreciate it you talked about the", "start": 5651.159, "end": 5657.76}, {"text": "bylaw and one of the things that we do as city councilors as part of our official function is to approve budgets", "start": 5657.76, "end": 5663.92}, {"text": "and so sometimes staff will come forward and they'll ask for funds right and so over the over the course of many years", "start": 5663.92, "end": 5670.56}, {"text": "uh if you look at the since amalgamation till now in the last 25 years you'll see that sometimes or other we fixed the", "start": 5670.56, "end": 5676.52}, {"text": "budget at a certain number and said okay it's got to come in at this this rate and then of course that means well the BW Department might have said to someone", "start": 5676.52, "end": 5682.679}, {"text": "well we need to have more people to be able to enforce Property Standards or um we might need to have more folks to", "start": 5682.679, "end": 5688.119}, {"text": "ensure that we're safeguarding Heritage buildings you can ask a question uh but if you ask it into the void there's no", "start": 5688.119, "end": 5693.36}, {"text": "one there answer your question um then of course you're not going to get an answer I take your point uh point you", "start": 5693.36, "end": 5699.119}, {"text": "know quite acutely there it's it's an important thing to say my question for you is like do you think it's important that that City councils fund um enough", "start": 5699.119, "end": 5706.719}, {"text": "Staffing Resources Engineers these kinds of people and experts to ensure that we can Safeguard Our Heritage buildings I think the answer from the question will", "start": 5706.719, "end": 5712.6}, {"text": "be yes but I'm asking because I want to know what you think about you know our role as counselors in terms of the budget and making sure we have the", "start": 5712.6, "end": 5718}, {"text": "dollars to support this work no I would say that Council has to be responsible in", "start": 5718, "end": 5726.8}, {"text": "how the funds are spent now um when the pigot building windows were taken Heritage Hamilton", "start": 5726.8, "end": 5735.199}, {"text": "Foundation reimbursed the person who took them", "start": 5735.199, "end": 5740.76}, {"text": "so there are limited funds but if the", "start": 5740.76, "end": 5745.88}, {"text": "example for me today is who is inspecting vacant Heritage buildings and", "start": 5745.88, "end": 5752.44}, {"text": "one of them is the ti so if there aren't funds ask Heritage Hamilton Foundation", "start": 5752.44, "end": 5758.239}, {"text": "or Mohawk or McMaster would you pay for", "start": 5758.239, "end": 5763.52}, {"text": "a student to have a summer position here and their job would be to find out what", "start": 5763.52, "end": 5770.48}, {"text": "heritage buildings have not been inspected in 4 8 20 years so the funds", "start": 5770.48, "end": 5776.719}, {"text": "would not necessarily come from the city sure but we your point is that we need to have the support so we can have people to actually do this work is your", "start": 5776.719, "end": 5782.639}, {"text": "point we need people to be able to do the work right okay thanks appreciate your", "start": 5782.639, "end": 5788.04}, {"text": "answers he anybody", "start": 5788.84, "end": 5792.76}, {"text": "else okay seeing them thank you very much Dan for Dr for coming in appreciate", "start": 5795.08, "end": 5801.04}, {"text": "it thank you thank you to all the members of council and the municipal Heritage committee for taking the time", "start": 5801.04, "end": 5806.199}, {"text": "to listen thank so may I please have a mover and a second to receive the", "start": 5806.199, "end": 5811.36}, {"text": "delegations I see Karen and Drew anyone", "start": 5811.36, "end": 5816.44}, {"text": "opposed seeing none the motion carries I fin hand this back to you", "start": 5816.44, "end": 5823.159}, {"text": "nope so now we have our staff presentations so Heritage permit application", "start": 5823.159, "end": 5829.04}, {"text": "HP that's oh yeah under HP 2024 033 and section three section four of the her", "start": 5829.04, "end": 5837}, {"text": "act for the demition the Tim theater we have Alissa gold thank", "start": 5837, "end": 5842.199}, {"text": "you go Heritage program lead is here to introduce the presentation thank you through the chair", "start": 5842.199, "end": 5849.4}, {"text": "Alysa golden cultural heritage program lead um I'm going to give a brief introduction to the staff report and", "start": 5849.4, "end": 5856.04}, {"text": "this particular her permit application and then pass it over to the applicant team who is here to give a more detailed", "start": 5856.04, "end": 5861.44}, {"text": "presentation um so we'll just set the stage in terms of this herriage permit again HP 2024 033 regarding the tily", "start": 5861.44, "end": 5869.04}, {"text": "theater and proposed demolition", "start": 5869.04, "end": 5873.04}, {"text": "for some context for folks who are not familiar although I think we all are um this is a relatively large lot it spans", "start": 5874.32, "end": 5882}, {"text": "between James Street and Houston Street North and shown here are some asound images of the exterior of the building", "start": 5882, "end": 5890.56}, {"text": "currently and the property is comprised of the former tiv theater uh the property is designated currently under", "start": 5891.96, "end": 5898.199}, {"text": "the Ontario her de by two separate bylaws that collectively protect what remains of the lobby and theater uh an", "start": 5898.199, "end": 5905.44}, {"text": "auditorium sorry of the theater um I will note uh on the left is what used to", "start": 5905.44, "end": 5911.239}, {"text": "face jamest Street North the Western portion that collapsed and was demolished in 2004 currently only", "start": 5911.239, "end": 5916.76}, {"text": "interior features remain that are protected by the designation and the exterior brick facades which you just", "start": 5916.76, "end": 5921.88}, {"text": "saw are not currently protected under the onter Heritage", "start": 5921.88, "end": 5927.119}, {"text": "act the staff report provided in the agenda is quite extensive I have some", "start": 5927.48, "end": 5932.599}, {"text": "slides with some back summary in case we need to pull them up later during discussion just want to highlight a few", "start": 5932.599, "end": 5937.84}, {"text": "things here in terms of um as already discussed the partial collapse uh or S", "start": 5937.84, "end": 5943}, {"text": "the building collapse and then partial demolition of the western portion back in 2004 uh a changing of hands of multiple", "start": 5943, "end": 5949.8}, {"text": "owners uh in those subsequent years there was some work to help fund", "start": 5949.8, "end": 5955.239}, {"text": "stabilization and heating improvements uh through City Grant and loan programs in the late", "start": 5955.239, "end": 5960.88}, {"text": "2000s um in 2015 there a substantial rezoning application that did propose", "start": 5960.88, "end": 5968.04}, {"text": "retention and restoration of the theater and did allow for substantial development on site as an accessory use", "start": 5968.04, "end": 5973.719}, {"text": "to the theater being retained that was in 2015 and there was some work to try to", "start": 5973.719, "end": 5978.84}, {"text": "advance that uh 2016 there was a herriage permit that was approved to demolish the lobby portion of the", "start": 5978.84, "end": 5984.48}, {"text": "structure uh however that was not implemented and that particular proposal never move forward", "start": 5984.48, "end": 5991.84}, {"text": "and uh to provide some clarification on some of the discussion points we've heard today um the building's been", "start": 5994.4, "end": 6001.159}, {"text": "registered vacant since 2020 and has been actively monitored by m law enforcement on a quarterly basis since", "start": 6001.159, "end": 6006.639}, {"text": "then there was new ownership that took uh took possession of the property in", "start": 6006.639, "end": 6012.36}, {"text": "2022 and there was a formal consultation application last year for redevelopment", "start": 6012.36, "end": 6017.52}, {"text": "of the site that proposed demolition staff have been in conversation with the applicant uh", "start": 6017.52, "end": 6023.44}, {"text": "discussing what would be required as a part of potentially moving that application forward and this her permit", "start": 6023.44, "end": 6029.4}, {"text": "application was submitted in October it went to the Heritage permit review subcommittee on November 12th where the", "start": 6029.4, "end": 6035.239}, {"text": "subcommittee recommended refusal there was an initial Heritage impact assessment and supporting materials", "start": 6035.239, "end": 6040.76}, {"text": "provided following that meeting and discussion and some subsequent conversations with the subcommittee and", "start": 6040.76, "end": 6047.52}, {"text": "counselor uh we did request additional information and that's been provided as an addendum uh including a second", "start": 6047.52, "end": 6053.4}, {"text": "opinion and additional review by a professional engineer with qualified Heritage", "start": 6053.4, "end": 6059.8}, {"text": "experience and I'll just highlight the scope of the permit is to demolish what remains of the theater Lobby and", "start": 6061.96, "end": 6067.88}, {"text": "Auditorium structures there's the initial Heritage impact assessment and the supporting building condition", "start": 6067.88, "end": 6073.04}, {"text": "assessment and various studies that are included as appendix B to the report on", "start": 6073.04, "end": 6078.199}, {"text": "the agenda today and then the addenda materials uh which include includes an", "start": 6078.199, "end": 6084.199}, {"text": "update addendum uh from the Heritage Consultants plus VG as well as a condition assessment from John G cook", "start": 6084.199, "end": 6089.639}, {"text": "and Associates that I just mentioned and those materials are attached as appendix C to the report in front of you staff", "start": 6089.639, "end": 6097.119}, {"text": "did also receive some additional responses to questions uh at the time that this report was being finalized so", "start": 6097.119, "end": 6102.4}, {"text": "it wasn't included as an appendix but it did help inform um the conditions proposed in front of", "start": 6102.4, "end": 6109.719}, {"text": "you more detail will be gone into by the Consultants but I just want to highlight the findings generally it was determined", "start": 6109.719, "end": 6116.28}, {"text": "that the structures are in an advanced state of deterioration an approximate cost of uh", "start": 6116.28, "end": 6121.679}, {"text": "about 5.875 million that includes 25% contingency was identified to just try", "start": 6121.679, "end": 6127.32}, {"text": "to reconstruct and repair the building over envelope itself to make it safe to occupy that does not include any sort of", "start": 6127.32, "end": 6133.239}, {"text": "actual Heritage restoration and plaster work Asus was found throughout the building and the condition of the eses", "start": 6133.239, "end": 6140.92}, {"text": "containing plaster was determined to be ex poor um the interior designated elements", "start": 6140.92, "end": 6148.719}, {"text": "would need to be removed completely to facilitate any repair work to the structure itself and due to the presence", "start": 6148.719, "end": 6154.4}, {"text": "of the hazardous materials throughout and the addendum provided did include an estimated cost for just the abatement", "start": 6154.4, "end": 6160.88}, {"text": "component of this project which would be 1.14", "start": 6160.88, "end": 6165.719}, {"text": "million the Heritage impact assessment provided with the application um", "start": 6166.52, "end": 6171.84}, {"text": "determined that it was not ible to restore the existing features designated features of the interior of the building", "start": 6171.84, "end": 6177.719}, {"text": "in place and recommended Demolition and proposed measures to mitigate the impact", "start": 6177.719, "end": 6183.84}, {"text": "of that demolition uh which includes providing a new event space in a new development that pays homage to the", "start": 6183.84, "end": 6189.679}, {"text": "former tiv theater commemorating the formly for former tiv theater in the new", "start": 6189.679, "end": 6194.719}, {"text": "development with a new public interpretive Center and theater Lobby interpreting the architecture of the", "start": 6194.719, "end": 6200.36}, {"text": "former Carriage Factory the portion that used to front on to to James Street North that was demolished in 2004 and to", "start": 6200.36, "end": 6206.8}, {"text": "ensure that the entire building is fully documented prior to", "start": 6206.8, "end": 6212.28}, {"text": "demolition in terms of staff's analysis of what was submitted um we did determine that the existing designated", "start": 6215.08, "end": 6221.639}, {"text": "interior features cannot be feasibly retained and restored in place the proposed demolition would obviously", "start": 6221.639, "end": 6227.199}, {"text": "cause significant displacement and disruption effects as it would propose Dem demolition of this significant her", "start": 6227.199, "end": 6233.48}, {"text": "resource and to mitigate the impacts of that demolition um there are conditions", "start": 6233.48, "end": 6238.84}, {"text": "proposed for interpretation and commemoration measures as part of Redevelopment of the", "start": 6238.84, "end": 6244.88}, {"text": "site and we can come back to this afterwards but uh as shown in the staff report the staff recommendation is to", "start": 6244.88, "end": 6250.76}, {"text": "approve the Heritage permit application to demolish subject to conditions this would include uh a series of uh", "start": 6250.76, "end": 6257.96}, {"text": "requirements to develop a conservation strategy to guide those meur that I just", "start": 6257.96, "end": 6263.679}, {"text": "talked about in terms of mitigating the impact by providing commemorative interpretation measures within a new", "start": 6263.679, "end": 6269.119}, {"text": "development and to tie the applicant to actually implementing those recommendations a requirement for", "start": 6269.119, "end": 6275.599}, {"text": "financial securities for that to be held um to make sure that that takes place", "start": 6275.599, "end": 6280.639}, {"text": "and to ensure that the the project is uh advancing and moving forward a requirement for the submission of a", "start": 6280.639, "end": 6286.48}, {"text": "complete application for a required zoning bylaw Amendment prior to demolition of the structures", "start": 6286.48, "end": 6293.96}, {"text": "okay at this point I will pass it over to the applicant team who's on the call today I have the list of folks who are", "start": 6295.48, "end": 6301.96}, {"text": "here on the screen for for information and I just want to highlight in terms of what's already been discussed today that", "start": 6301.96, "end": 6307.76}, {"text": "there are a number of Representatives as a part of the Consulting team including um two Representatives plus BG", "start": 6307.76, "end": 6313.639}, {"text": "architects who are a part of the Canadian Association of Heritage professionals as well as um the", "start": 6313.639, "end": 6319.119}, {"text": "Consulting engineer on the call today as well and with that I will pass it over to the", "start": 6319.119, "end": 6326.96}, {"text": "team hey who's a get started if you wish you", "start": 6344.88, "end": 6351.88}, {"text": "do you know I's going to speak on your behalf", "start": 6363.32, "end": 6366.92}, {"text": "first I believe I am Edward are you gonna start no", "start": 6368.76, "end": 6375.88}, {"text": "no uh through through the chair happy to uh initiate we were just waiting for the visual materials to come through through", "start": 6376.719, "end": 6383.4}, {"text": "my name is Edward John I'm planner assisting with this part of the process uh today we will have Paul sazi", "start": 6383.4, "end": 6390.92}, {"text": "providing the overview of the uh the Cher report that was submitted and then obviously is Alyssa kindly Tu us through", "start": 6390.92, "end": 6398.52}, {"text": "there's number of us on the call today to assist with any questions following the presentation that you may have uh to", "start": 6398.52, "end": 6405.04}, {"text": "help you render a decision so with that I'll uh pass it over to Paul and uh you", "start": 6405.04, "end": 6410.159}, {"text": "know once again be here available to answer any questions", "start": 6410.159, "end": 6414.84}, {"text": "thank you Edward and thank you uh Mr chairperson um can we have our", "start": 6415.52, "end": 6421.48}, {"text": "presentation uh up is this it it appears to be up right now thank", "start": 6421.48, "end": 6427.76}, {"text": "you okay if we can go to the next slide", "start": 6427.76, "end": 6432.239}, {"text": "please uh I'd like to introduce myself I'm Paul sauny I'm the president of the", "start": 6433.48, "end": 6439.4}, {"text": "Venton group Architects plus VG I have 35 years of", "start": 6439.4, "end": 6444.88}, {"text": "experience um in the restoration Rehabilitation and", "start": 6444.88, "end": 6450.679}, {"text": "preservation of of uh buildings uh mostly institutional and cultural", "start": 6450.679, "end": 6457.119}, {"text": "throughout all of Ontario our firm has um has has uh completed projects of this", "start": 6457.119, "end": 6464.8}, {"text": "nature um uh over well I would say hundreds of them throughout all of", "start": 6464.8, "end": 6469.92}, {"text": "Ontario and we've been doing it uh since 1972 next slide", "start": 6469.92, "end": 6477.239}, {"text": "please um I just want to create some uh credibility perhaps for uh what we what", "start": 6478.08, "end": 6484.599}, {"text": "we have done um we we were the principal architects in the uh comprehensive", "start": 6484.599, "end": 6490.8}, {"text": "restoration of Queens Park next", "start": 6490.8, "end": 6495.28}, {"text": "image uh the old Toronto City Hall next image", "start": 6497.96, "end": 6504.76}, {"text": "uh we were one of the team for the uh Union Station uh restoration which took", "start": 6508, "end": 6514.04}, {"text": "a number of years next", "start": 6514.04, "end": 6517.599}, {"text": "image oh it's really slow I apologize who's um running the slides is that you", "start": 6522.599, "end": 6529.199}, {"text": "Deb yes can you hear me all right can you yeah can you scroll to the next image please more", "start": 6529.199, "end": 6536.92}, {"text": "promptly um the Don jail in Toronto um restoration of that", "start": 6537.599, "end": 6545.32}, {"text": "next uh the Law Society of Upper Canada and Osgood Hall", "start": 6546.36, "end": 6552.159}, {"text": "next uh the new nagra parks Power Station museum", "start": 6553.28, "end": 6560}, {"text": "next say Michaels Cathedral a very complicated large project on Church", "start": 6560.84, "end": 6566.08}, {"text": "Street next um in your in our community here in", "start": 6566.08, "end": 6572.88}, {"text": "Hamilton I was the restoration architect um for the uh POA", "start": 6572.88, "end": 6579.639}, {"text": "Courthouse which used to be part of McMaster un I guess being used by McMaster University next", "start": 6579.639, "end": 6587.32}, {"text": "please and one of the Pinnacles of my career was the restoration and", "start": 6587.32, "end": 6592.88}, {"text": "Rehabilitation of the Hamilton City Hall and all of the Interior next", "start": 6592.88, "end": 6599.04}, {"text": "please I've also done um several uh theater projects throughout Ontario um", "start": 6599.04, "end": 6607.199}, {"text": "they are um projects ranging from Orangeville uh theater um um um I did", "start": 6607.199, "end": 6616.84}, {"text": "meford theater I've done uh literally 10 or 15 different theaters throat of this", "start": 6616.84, "end": 6623.679}, {"text": "type uh throat Ontario as well and I really like uh what the last delegate", "start": 6623.679, "end": 6631.159}, {"text": "said uh she said that she's really unhappy and uh I want to say that I'm", "start": 6631.159, "end": 6637.76}, {"text": "also uh really unhappy about what's happened here and um really saddened by", "start": 6637.76, "end": 6645}, {"text": "what's happened here because our firm is has proudly been able to save hundreds", "start": 6645, "end": 6652.159}, {"text": "of Bill buildings throughout Ontario but we are at the intersection", "start": 6652.159, "end": 6658.32}, {"text": "of um uh a few very critical uh", "start": 6658.32, "end": 6663.639}, {"text": "difficulties that uh make this building um very difficult uh to restore and", "start": 6663.639, "end": 6670.599}, {"text": "these Interiors very difficult to restore um and I'll talk about those in", "start": 6670.599, "end": 6676.04}, {"text": "a little while and uh as the last delegate said I have a heavy a very", "start": 6676.04, "end": 6682}, {"text": "heavy heart about this project but as a professional I have to uh present our", "start": 6682, "end": 6688.56}, {"text": "findings and those of our Consulting team I want to clarify before I start", "start": 6688.56, "end": 6694.679}, {"text": "that there's there's um Alisa said it really best I want everybody to", "start": 6694.679, "end": 6701.32}, {"text": "respectfully understand that what is uh designated here is not the building the", "start": 6701.32, "end": 6706.84}, {"text": "exterior of the building it is a it is the interior uh finishes that are", "start": 6706.84, "end": 6713.76}, {"text": "designated and all of these finishes are about A4 in thick layer of plastic of uh", "start": 6713.76, "end": 6722.599}, {"text": "plaster sorry throughout the entire building um so next slide please", "start": 6722.599, "end": 6730}, {"text": "devb so the purpose of the presentation provide the committee with a brief overview of the uh cultural heritage", "start": 6730.28, "end": 6737.32}, {"text": "impact assessment and any additional information and we reviewed the Heritage value the tiv theater timeline which one", "start": 6737.32, "end": 6745.28}, {"text": "of your delegates has um has actually already reviewed the design Alternatives and investigations current conditions", "start": 6745.28, "end": 6752.84}, {"text": "and what can be done next image next", "start": 6752.84, "end": 6757.96}, {"text": "slide uh so um oh I think you skipped", "start": 6757.96, "end": 6764.84}, {"text": "one um I'll ask debb Deb to uh uh go over a few of these sort of introduction", "start": 6766.44, "end": 6772.84}, {"text": "slides and then I'll I'll go over the conditions you have to unmute yeah yep", "start": 6772.84, "end": 6779.239}, {"text": "thanks Paul uh so thank you and and welcome everyone um", "start": 6779.239, "end": 6786.92}, {"text": "The Heritage value as I guess we're reporting on our findings and as we've looked at the Heritage", "start": 6786.92, "end": 6793.92}, {"text": "designations and current conditions uh we found that the um value uh has", "start": 6793.92, "end": 6802.079}, {"text": "diminished over time we provided a chart in the cultural heritage impact", "start": 6802.079, "end": 6807.96}, {"text": "assessment uh as a table um under the criteria to evaluate the designation", "start": 6807.96, "end": 6814.719}, {"text": "done in 1990 and 2004 and current conditions uh that demonstrate", "start": 6814.719, "end": 6822.32}, {"text": "this um just for a quick uh refresh the 1990 designation uh was about the", "start": 6822.32, "end": 6830.079}, {"text": "carriage Factory building and its significance it talks about the uh", "start": 6830.079, "end": 6835.92}, {"text": "beautiful the characteristics the features the steeply pitched roof um cornices beautiful detailing uh it's", "start": 6835.92, "end": 6844.079}, {"text": "prominence uh on James Street uh the windows of course that are uh really", "start": 6844.079, "end": 6850.32}, {"text": "unique um and eventually the Marquee uh", "start": 6850.32, "end": 6855.84}, {"text": "it had a a large presence on James", "start": 6855.84, "end": 6860.198}, {"text": "Street and and yes as time went on uh and due to", "start": 6861.199, "end": 6867.96}, {"text": "neglect um the wall uh believe that's the South Wall on", "start": 6867.96, "end": 6873.76}, {"text": "the U tiv theater collapsed and partial roof uh they went in to investigate and", "start": 6873.76, "end": 6881.199}, {"text": "it uh wasn't possible to restore it at that point the building and so it was", "start": 6881.199, "end": 6886.96}, {"text": "demolished um that same year in 2004", "start": 6886.96, "end": 6893.239}, {"text": "the 2004 so once it was that's when the designation uh of the", "start": 6893.28, "end": 6898.92}, {"text": "auditorium uh became uh priority uh to protect the interior uh and the theater", "start": 6898.92, "end": 6906.119}, {"text": "space uh in the new uh in the auditorium that was built in 1925 so it it if it's the plaster as", "start": 6906.119, "end": 6914.04}, {"text": "Paul just mentioned the ceiling uh all the decorative plaster work um that you can see", "start": 6914.04, "end": 6921.199}, {"text": "here um uh we took a look at the Timeline as well uh just in terms of the", "start": 6921.199, "end": 6927.28}, {"text": "carriage Factory when it first opened uh was constructed rather and um as it", "start": 6927.28, "end": 6933.719}, {"text": "changed over the course of time and it's not until 1989 that it was transferred and sold um", "start": 6933.719, "end": 6941.239}, {"text": "the first time it had functioned as many things uh in related to", "start": 6941.239, "end": 6948.639}, {"text": "entertainment there was a designation placed in 1990 uh just after the first", "start": 6948.639, "end": 6954.44}, {"text": "um transfers Property Transfers um and", "start": 6954.44, "end": 6959.719}, {"text": "again we've noted the Demolition and designation on here I think what's probably worth noting is that the", "start": 6959.719, "end": 6965.159}, {"text": "highlighted yellow areas are the events of when the property was transferred", "start": 6965.159, "end": 6970.28}, {"text": "which gets to be pretty substantial by the time uh we get up to uh the year", "start": 6970.28, "end": 6977.56}, {"text": "2020 uh just touching on the the U some of the Alternatives that were looked at", "start": 6980, "end": 6985.56}, {"text": "with the building when the owner purchased the property to check various configurations um to see how the theater", "start": 6985.56, "end": 6992.079}, {"text": "might be able to be incorporated um what that might look like is there adaptive reuse of the theater for occupancy were", "start": 6992.079, "end": 6999.32}, {"text": "some of the things that were looked at uh they also undertook studies to look at the conditions um which which we'll", "start": 6999.32, "end": 7008.52}, {"text": "go into uh further here um and which have been document documented the", "start": 7008.52, "end": 7015.719}, {"text": "structural investigations um included uh significant deterioration", "start": 7015.719, "end": 7022.079}, {"text": "and and exterior brick and clay tile walls um that that have", "start": 7022.079, "end": 7028.159}, {"text": "um worsen there's L loss of roof structure Integrity uh mostly it's water", "start": 7028.159, "end": 7034.599}, {"text": "penetration um damages that have caused collapse and and uh roof failure in", "start": 7034.599, "end": 7041}, {"text": "areas um floor framing requires removal and reinforcement to meet uh loading", "start": 7041, "end": 7046.04}, {"text": "requirements as well the report uh structural review report concludes that", "start": 7046.04, "end": 7052.159}, {"text": "it the building should be considered past the point of restoration just due to the amount of", "start": 7052.159, "end": 7057.599}, {"text": "damage um the an environmental review was also conducted uh because of the", "start": 7057.599, "end": 7065.679}, {"text": "well to investigate what materials were there uh the conditions so there is lead", "start": 7065.679, "end": 7070.719}, {"text": "in paints and surface Coatings uh which are deteriorating and you'll see some", "start": 7070.719, "end": 7075.8}, {"text": "examples of the extens of peeling and flaking in the building uh there's", "start": 7075.8, "end": 7080.84}, {"text": "suspected lead Mercury silica and pcbs uh there's also a lot of evidence", "start": 7080.84, "end": 7086.84}, {"text": "uh you can see mold growth prevalent on various surfaces throughout the building due to water and uh water damage and", "start": 7086.84, "end": 7093.719}, {"text": "leaks uh asbestos is uh located or found", "start": 7093.719, "end": 7099.079}, {"text": "throughout the building as well but significantly it's in the plaster on the walls the ceilings the ornamental", "start": 7099.079, "end": 7104.4}, {"text": "moldings throughout the", "start": 7104.4, "end": 7107.678}, {"text": "building it's also because of the conditions it's breached and there's Frable uh plaster uh around the building", "start": 7109.719, "end": 7117.84}, {"text": "as well this was a timeline we put together to just look at what the", "start": 7117.84, "end": 7123.52}, {"text": "timeline of ownership when the ownership started changing after the theater closed in", "start": 7123.52, "end": 7130.04}, {"text": "1989 uh the do naations that took place and you can see in a short period of", "start": 7130.04, "end": 7135.48}, {"text": "time compared to its long history this uh when it went through leasehold uses", "start": 7135.48, "end": 7141.32}, {"text": "and uh has been unoccupied so significant deterioration over the last", "start": 7141.32, "end": 7146.719}, {"text": "um 30 years so I'll switch it back to Paul", "start": 7146.719, "end": 7151.84}, {"text": "who'd like to go over some of the conditions here thank you uh Deb", "start": 7151.84, "end": 7157.76}, {"text": "um so um I'm going to kind of casually walk you through the building and point", "start": 7157.76, "end": 7163.76}, {"text": "out some of the issues I don't know how many of you have visited the building I did have the pleasure of meeting uh", "start": 7163.76, "end": 7171.52}, {"text": "counselor Cameron there um with u a party of of staff and um including", "start": 7171.52, "end": 7178.199}, {"text": "Alyssa golden and we took a tour of the building I've been in it several times", "start": 7178.199, "end": 7183.92}, {"text": "I've in fact been in it uh I was in it back in the 80s uh when the original owner was", "start": 7183.92, "end": 7189.96}, {"text": "there um so just sort of starting with this uh observation protection room", "start": 7189.96, "end": 7195.92}, {"text": "finishes are damaged due to structural deterioration as of the floor and the Roof System let me give you an overview of", "start": 7195.92, "end": 7203.04}, {"text": "how this building is built it's basically a steel kind of a steel", "start": 7203.04, "end": 7208.4}, {"text": "structure it's a composite structure of Steel and clay tile there's a steel", "start": 7208.4, "end": 7214.28}, {"text": "frame um that you can see columns in the wall then there's a steel uh roof", "start": 7214.28, "end": 7220.84}, {"text": "structure and then between the columns and the wall are what's called clay tile and um", "start": 7220.84, "end": 7229.079}, {"text": "they are something that we don't use anymore uh for building walls and that's a fired clay uh block that has cavities", "start": 7229.079, "end": 7237.639}, {"text": "in it um the roof um uh is a steel uh", "start": 7237.639, "end": 7245.199}, {"text": "structure um and within the steel structure supporting all the roofing", "start": 7245.199, "end": 7252.8}, {"text": "are these fibrous I'll get into more detail these fibrous uh uh panels and", "start": 7252.8, "end": 7260.52}, {"text": "what has happened uh most importantly is um and sorry and sitting on top of all", "start": 7260.52, "end": 7267.599}, {"text": "of that is a substrate uh which is a fibrous material and a metal laugh um", "start": 7267.599, "end": 7276.199}, {"text": "and then on top of that for the majority of this is about a/4 inch thick layer of", "start": 7276.199, "end": 7282.719}, {"text": "finished plaster and then paint on top of it so if you look at the whole", "start": 7282.719, "end": 7287.96}, {"text": "structure uh what I just outlined what is designated is a quarter inch some", "start": 7287.96, "end": 7294.599}, {"text": "places it's thicker of course where the moldings are but mostly what is designated is about a quarter inch of", "start": 7294.599, "end": 7302.36}, {"text": "plaster uh and uh so let's walk through this um this is a view of the projection", "start": 7302.36, "end": 7309.719}, {"text": "room um so what we're seeing here is um", "start": 7309.719, "end": 7315.32}, {"text": "significant water damage uh due to uh uh you know phenomenal roof failure uh", "start": 7315.32, "end": 7322.92}, {"text": "where water has been pouring into the building essentially it's at many points the building has been completely", "start": 7322.92, "end": 7329.079}, {"text": "saturated soaked in water water is an interesting material most materials when", "start": 7329.079, "end": 7335.44}, {"text": "it when they freeze they shrink in size uh water is a tricky one though for some", "start": 7335.44, "end": 7341.599}, {"text": "reason water expands that's why you put a glass of water in the fridge uh bottle of", "start": 7341.599, "end": 7347.48}, {"text": "water in the fridge or a bottle of wine and you let it freeze it'll often break it expands so when water gets into these", "start": 7347.48, "end": 7354.8}, {"text": "materials the the the clay tile and uh into this quarter inch of um", "start": 7354.8, "end": 7363.48}, {"text": "plaster uh and it soaks it like a rag um and then it freezes what happens is these materials", "start": 7363.48, "end": 7371.96}, {"text": "expand and when they expand they lose often lose their structural Integrity", "start": 7371.96, "end": 7378.48}, {"text": "the plaster is very susceptible to that um it so it's expanded and contracted", "start": 7378.48, "end": 7386.239}, {"text": "and expanded and contracted for 34 years and it's almost powderized all of it", "start": 7386.239, "end": 7393.44}, {"text": "I've been able to pour pull the plaster off the wall with my hands and it is disintegrated in my hands as I pulled it", "start": 7393.44, "end": 7401.04}, {"text": "off what that does is that the plaster is made with asbestos asbestos is not a", "start": 7401.04, "end": 7408.119}, {"text": "joke asbestos leads to mesothelioma cancer and here a lot of", "start": 7408.119, "end": 7415.84}, {"text": "the asbestos has become airborne therefore you should never ever go into", "start": 7415.84, "end": 7421.84}, {"text": "this building without lung protection it is cancerous and uh unfortunately all of", "start": 7421.84, "end": 7429.239}, {"text": "this plaster is made with as best um there and it's A4 inch", "start": 7429.239, "end": 7435.84}, {"text": "thick and um because of that trying to repair the", "start": 7435.84, "end": 7441.48}, {"text": "plaster um just trying to repair it makes it start falling apart they're", "start": 7441.48, "end": 7447.52}, {"text": "just isn't a solid surface to repaint and encapsulating it which has been", "start": 7447.52, "end": 7453.559}, {"text": "discussed is also um impossible it has lost its uh structural Integrity as a", "start": 7453.559, "end": 7461.719}, {"text": "surface material um it would never hold the paint and it will just continue to", "start": 7461.719, "end": 7469.559}, {"text": "disintegrate next slide please so the building um on its own um", "start": 7469.559, "end": 7478.4}, {"text": "we're very lucky actually we have John Cook who is uh a very notable uh", "start": 7478.4, "end": 7484.159}, {"text": "structural engineer that is also a member of the Canadian Association of Heritage professionals so he is a", "start": 7484.159, "end": 7490.84}, {"text": "structural engineer that focuses on Heritage structures um and we'll talk a little", "start": 7490.84, "end": 7496.239}, {"text": "bit about him later the the building as it is today is in grave danger of", "start": 7496.239, "end": 7501.44}, {"text": "actually collapsing and there have been a number of measures taken to uh", "start": 7501.44, "end": 7507.679}, {"text": "stabilize it somewhat um mostly just to allow people to come in and just have a look at it", "start": 7507.679, "end": 7514.92}, {"text": "and to prevent catastrophic damage of the strip mall that's next to it next", "start": 7514.92, "end": 7520.079}, {"text": "slide please um so some observations other", "start": 7520.079, "end": 7529.639}, {"text": "observations uh there's a corner of the building that is in really really rough", "start": 7529.639, "end": 7535.92}, {"text": "shape and um it's the only it's actually the one that we can see we don't know", "start": 7535.92, "end": 7541.639}, {"text": "what's happening completely in the other areas there is now the this comes into", "start": 7541.639, "end": 7547.679}, {"text": "the discussion of the clay tile exterior walls there have been s several lawsuits", "start": 7547.679, "end": 7552.88}, {"text": "in Ontario about these clay tiles spalling um uh this building uh could", "start": 7552.88, "end": 7559.96}, {"text": "have been built with stone it could have been built with all brick but unfortunately it was built very economically using this what we used to", "start": 7559.96, "end": 7566.84}, {"text": "call speed tile the speed tile is made of clay and Clay is very absorbent of of water and", "start": 7566.84, "end": 7574.719}, {"text": "water has gone into the cavity of the speed tile and is accumulated at the bottom of the walls and it", "start": 7574.719, "end": 7582.079}, {"text": "absorbed been absorbed into the actual fiber of the clay um and again as it", "start": 7582.079, "end": 7588.8}, {"text": "froze um the speed tile expanded and contracted expanded and contracted brick", "start": 7588.8, "end": 7594.88}, {"text": "is not really designed or Clay is not really designed to do that and it's caused a lot of powderization of the", "start": 7594.88, "end": 7601.04}, {"text": "clay and it's lost a lot of its structural Integrity when uh when we had that delegation come to the building to", "start": 7601.04, "end": 7607.48}, {"text": "take a look around I was able to put my hand through the structural clay wall in", "start": 7607.48, "end": 7613.639}, {"text": "several areas this corner is the worst Corner this corner also has a clay Pier", "start": 7613.639, "end": 7620.28}, {"text": "which uh has uh failed structurally and there's about a 3in I'm just guessing", "start": 7620.28, "end": 7625.32}, {"text": "looks like a 3-in gap at the top of the wall between the pier and the rest of the wall also the brick that's on the", "start": 7625.32, "end": 7632.8}, {"text": "exterior of the building contemporary buildings have metal ties that hold the", "start": 7632.8, "end": 7638.04}, {"text": "brick onto the wall in those days you would actually turn the brick so it's", "start": 7638.04, "end": 7644.44}, {"text": "multiple wies a brick I think it's two so every now and then you would take one of the bricks and you would turn it on", "start": 7644.44, "end": 7650.639}, {"text": "its short end and you would have it cross into the other layer of brick and that would hold the brick wall together", "start": 7650.639, "end": 7657.28}, {"text": "well a lot of those bricks from what I observed have actually split so there's very few ties I think there's some not", "start": 7657.28, "end": 7665}, {"text": "very few but I would say that that has also been compromised here as well so when you", "start": 7665, "end": 7671.88}, {"text": "look at this at a high level you say to yourself the um the the uh plaster", "start": 7671.88, "end": 7680.8}, {"text": "decorative plaster is on a substrate of uh of", "start": 7680.8, "end": 7687.119}, {"text": "rusted um of a rusted mesh which holds it all together and that mesh is nailed", "start": 7687.119, "end": 7695}, {"text": "to a wood strapping on the end of the building on the inside of the building which is attached to the brick wall the", "start": 7695, "end": 7701.76}, {"text": "wood strapping is also has uh become Punky and rotten um and then that wood", "start": 7701.76, "end": 7708.599}, {"text": "strapping is attached to a clay tile which has lost in many areas its", "start": 7708.599, "end": 7715.119}, {"text": "structural integrity and then the clay tile is attached to a brick veneer which", "start": 7715.119, "end": 7720.92}, {"text": "is started to delaminate from the building and you getting catastrophic", "start": 7720.92, "end": 7726.4}, {"text": "failure in this corner so I just that's what I talked about the uh intersection", "start": 7726.4, "end": 7732.599}, {"text": "here I just look at this problem as a Heritage architect and I've done a lot of tricky Heritage work and I say to", "start": 7732.599, "end": 7740.599}, {"text": "myself that the plaster cannot be saved the backup of the plaster cannot be", "start": 7740.599, "end": 7747.48}, {"text": "saved the uh the clay tile cannot be uh saved um and then there's the brick that", "start": 7747.48, "end": 7755.48}, {"text": "is problematic and how it's tied to the building as well and in order for us to", "start": 7755.48, "end": 7760.84}, {"text": "inspect all of the clay tile you would have to remove the plaster because no", "start": 7760.84, "end": 7766.96}, {"text": "one no one would want to certify this building for part three assembly occupancy of a theater without knowing", "start": 7766.96, "end": 7774.599}, {"text": "what is behind there uh this hidden clay tile that's been saturated by water and", "start": 7774.599, "end": 7780.4}, {"text": "has been going through Fe freeze throughout for over 30 years who's going to put their name onto that to um uh to", "start": 7780.4, "end": 7789.48}, {"text": "create Public Safety so so it really is uh an intricate intersection of problems", "start": 7789.48, "end": 7797.159}, {"text": "so we would have and then in between it are steel", "start": 7797.159, "end": 7802.4}, {"text": "columns um and we have seen um we have seen um uh areas of the bases of the", "start": 7802.4, "end": 7809.32}, {"text": "steel columns they have rotted out so each one of those steel columns needs to", "start": 7809.32, "end": 7815.8}, {"text": "be inspected the connections need to be inspected the brick uh clay tiles need", "start": 7815.8, "end": 7822.48}, {"text": "to be inspected you can't do it with an x-ray gun you've got to remove the the", "start": 7822.48, "end": 7828.28}, {"text": "the the the um um um the U the the um um", "start": 7828.28, "end": 7834.76}, {"text": "uh the finishes to do it it is a profound uh problem next slide", "start": 7834.76, "end": 7843.199}, {"text": "please uh so here is uh how this building is constructed and you can see", "start": 7845.199, "end": 7850.48}, {"text": "the damage at the top of that and that's those clay tiles on the right so then you start getting into how this is all", "start": 7850.48, "end": 7857.719}, {"text": "made up those wood braces uh the uh um are rotten um the", "start": 7857.719, "end": 7867.8}, {"text": "mortar between these clay tiles and in the brick um has uh lime in it and", "start": 7867.8, "end": 7876.159}, {"text": "Lead um so that's what's holding this thing together a lot of the areas is the", "start": 7876.159, "end": 7881.559}, {"text": "mortar is just totally missing you can see that on the right and in certain areas um this corner in particular is", "start": 7881.559, "end": 7888.8}, {"text": "really bad at the bottom I was able to put my hands through it my one hand through it uh in the presence of", "start": 7888.8, "end": 7895.32}, {"text": "counselor Cameron next slide please I'm sorry I'll try to hurry up here uh it's", "start": 7895.32, "end": 7900.36}, {"text": "a little complicated so uh there's that metal laugh which I mentioned which is all", "start": 7900.36, "end": 7906.36}, {"text": "which is all rusted that's what holds all the plaster together next image please actually leave it here sorry go", "start": 7906.36, "end": 7914.52}, {"text": "back uh you see on the bottom right hand uh picture folks uh how thin that", "start": 7914.52, "end": 7920.52}, {"text": "plaster is so that stuff that's left there at the bottom is all the backup to the plaster the plaster itself is about", "start": 7920.52, "end": 7928.599}, {"text": "half an inch to 2 in thick where it's uh decorative next image", "start": 7928.599, "end": 7934.638}, {"text": "please uh so the uh deterioration of the plaster finishes I held a flashlight up", "start": 7935.36, "end": 7942.52}, {"text": "which is what I do in these things I held up a strong flashlight against the wall and what I could see is fibers and", "start": 7942.52, "end": 7950.28}, {"text": "plaster floating in the air clearly Frable means that it has", "start": 7950.28, "end": 7956.119}, {"text": "disintegrated and it is Airborne and it's flying around therefore if any of you go back into this building please be", "start": 7956.119, "end": 7963.44}, {"text": "careful and uh and protect yourself uh also you can see in this", "start": 7963.44, "end": 7969.119}, {"text": "image that um uh all some base plates as well are also", "start": 7969.119, "end": 7975.48}, {"text": "uh rotten next image uh deterioration of the clay tile", "start": 7975.48, "end": 7983.159}, {"text": "more images of that uh considerable cracking in in the brick walls next", "start": 7983.159, "end": 7988.719}, {"text": "image please um so I was talking about the", "start": 7988.719, "end": 7994.88}, {"text": "roof and the panels so those panels are made of gypsum um and the have his best to in", "start": 7994.88, "end": 8002.04}, {"text": "them as well so there's the roof structure which is these steel uh members and then in between them are", "start": 8002.04, "end": 8009.199}, {"text": "these kind of weird concrete gypsum panels that sit there and on top of that", "start": 8009.199, "end": 8014.48}, {"text": "they put the roof membrane on top and they try to present the prevent the moisture all of those got to go they're", "start": 8014.48, "end": 8020.88}, {"text": "all you can see them on the left there are U they've just become huge sponges", "start": 8020.88, "end": 8026.199}, {"text": "they're falling out um they no longer have any structural integrity", "start": 8026.199, "end": 8031.48}, {"text": "um and this is a kind of a kind of a composite structure so everything kind of works together I'll let John comment", "start": 8031.48, "end": 8037.96}, {"text": "on that later next image um so the good news even though", "start": 8037.96, "end": 8045.4}, {"text": "it's not a lot and it it makes me sad uh but there is a little bit of good news there are some lovely plaster uh statues", "start": 8045.4, "end": 8053.88}, {"text": "they're not bronze as was thought in the past the are plaster and the are uh they", "start": 8053.88, "end": 8059.8}, {"text": "do have as bestos in them but they're substantial enough that perhaps we can encase them in glass in a new building", "start": 8059.8, "end": 8068.76}, {"text": "uh or try to come up with some kind of high-tech finish so that they're no", "start": 8068.76, "end": 8073.8}, {"text": "longer Frable but they are lovely and um there also there's also some some", "start": 8073.8, "end": 8080.28}, {"text": "medallions that we could save next", "start": 8080.28, "end": 8085.239}, {"text": "image um so uh this is the lobby area um um here you've got hundreds of pounds of", "start": 8086.159, "end": 8095.119}, {"text": "um lead paint a lot of it's already fallen you can like you walk through it like uh you know leaves in the fall um", "start": 8095.119, "end": 8103.36}, {"text": "this is all very dangerous uh stuff next image", "start": 8103.36, "end": 8109.76}, {"text": "please um so there's all kinds of moisture damage in the wall there's water damage", "start": 8110.04, "end": 8116.36}, {"text": "and mold black mold if you can see the one on the right the worst kind of mold", "start": 8116.36, "end": 8121.599}, {"text": "cancerous uh very dangerous uh and it's right in the structure of the building you you cannot seal that cannot do", "start": 8121.599, "end": 8129.119}, {"text": "anything with it it's uh it's just going to continue progressing it's a living organism", "start": 8129.119, "end": 8137.04}, {"text": "next um let's let's uh speed this up a little", "start": 8138.079, "end": 8144}, {"text": "bit more I've already talked about all the Hazardous Materials it's like an encyclopedia of hazardous materials", "start": 8144, "end": 8151.679}, {"text": "uh so we had John do a structural report um you can actually see the the um uh", "start": 8151.679, "end": 8158.8}, {"text": "the the steel columns have telegraphed uh through the brick you can see the", "start": 8158.8, "end": 8163.92}, {"text": "deterioration at the corners uh unfortunately the exterior of the building has no Heritage value uh", "start": 8163.92, "end": 8171.159}, {"text": "that was actually an interior wall there cu the Coach Factory has been torn has fallen down and torn down or whatever", "start": 8171.159, "end": 8177.76}, {"text": "next image please so summary um I'm just going to not", "start": 8177.76, "end": 8184.88}, {"text": "going to summarize these I'm going to summarize what everybody's most interested in you've got a building", "start": 8184.88, "end": 8190}, {"text": "starting from the uh from the inside out you've got a building where the plaster", "start": 8190, "end": 8195.518}, {"text": "is very thin it's beautiful uh it was not built uh they didn't spend much", "start": 8195.519, "end": 8201.04}, {"text": "money building it I've restored theaters where it's actually Woodwork and tin and those are restorable but this is a very", "start": 8201.04, "end": 8208.2}, {"text": "thin layer of plaster that plaster contains asbestos that plaster has um", "start": 8208.2, "end": 8214.28}, {"text": "has um has lost structural Integrity through freeze thaw cycle that plaster", "start": 8214.281, "end": 8219.678}, {"text": "has started to become airborne in the space behind the plaster is a kind of a", "start": 8219.679, "end": 8225.439}, {"text": "horsehair board that holds it together that also has hazardous materials in it that has also been uh devastated by Ice", "start": 8225.44, "end": 8234.76}, {"text": "uh and water damage behind that is um a metal laugh which is Rusted behind that", "start": 8234.76, "end": 8241.92}, {"text": "is a wood strapping system which has become Punky and rotten behind that is a", "start": 8241.92, "end": 8248.88}, {"text": "clay tile system which has um in the areas that I've seen it seems to have", "start": 8248.88, "end": 8254.04}, {"text": "lost structural Integrity between the clay tile is structural columns The", "start": 8254.04, "end": 8259.8}, {"text": "Columns we don't know the condition of them everywhere we do know that they have failed in key areas and we know", "start": 8259.8, "end": 8267.638}, {"text": "that some of the bases are rusted we would have to remove the plaster we would have to remove the backing and the", "start": 8267.639, "end": 8274.88}, {"text": "metal mesh and see look inspect all of these columns we would also feel", "start": 8274.88, "end": 8280.04}, {"text": "comfortable in uh with this building if we could inspect all of the clay tiles which would again mean removing the", "start": 8280.04, "end": 8286.359}, {"text": "finishes beyond that is the clay tiles the clay tiles are gone then beyond that", "start": 8286.36, "end": 8291.88}, {"text": "is two wides of brick the the uh joints between the brick what holds it all", "start": 8291.88, "end": 8297.558}, {"text": "together seems to have cracked in some location the brick has delaminated all of the all of the mortar is", "start": 8297.559, "end": 8306.399}, {"text": "done so then you've got a roof uh you've got a rusty structure you've got these", "start": 8306.4, "end": 8313.359}, {"text": "gypsum panels that are done um I'm very sorry everybody but with um as as a", "start": 8313.36, "end": 8320.84}, {"text": "professional Heritage architect of 35 years this is one of the few times I've", "start": 8320.84, "end": 8326.28}, {"text": "come across having to say that I can't see how you can", "start": 8326.281, "end": 8331.478}, {"text": "manage the rehabilitation of this building and particularly what is", "start": 8331.479, "end": 8336.638}, {"text": "designated which is this thin code of plaster thank you I'll turn it over to", "start": 8336.639, "end": 8342}, {"text": "Deb to finish it up and let's make it", "start": 8342, "end": 8348}, {"text": "quick got it um so just we want provided uh some information which was already", "start": 8348, "end": 8354.319}, {"text": "mentioned uh following the subcommittee uh review so we do have uh the engineer is", "start": 8354.32, "end": 8361.04}, {"text": "here today uh structural uh and uh environmental if", "start": 8361.04, "end": 8366.92}, {"text": "anyone has any further questions uh so these are just summaries I think you've heard Paul explain it in detail uh so", "start": 8366.92, "end": 8375.558}, {"text": "there's the exterior that that that's an issue roof and framing system requires major", "start": 8375.559, "end": 8381.598}, {"text": "construction um the interior like the integral system that Paul spoke about", "start": 8381.599, "end": 8386.719}, {"text": "with the clay tile walls which is tied to it is uh in condition and needs", "start": 8386.719, "end": 8392.12}, {"text": "reinforcement or structural elements uh which are attached to the plaster and", "start": 8392.12, "end": 8397.6}, {"text": "again that's uh with the water and moisture and asbestos uh it's u a major Challenge and", "start": 8397.6, "end": 8405.76}, {"text": "not considered feasible um abatement the same thing uh", "start": 8405.76, "end": 8411.2}, {"text": "the there's uh asbestos in the plaster in the walls and ceilings and ornamental", "start": 8411.2, "end": 8417.56}, {"text": "mold moldings uh there's also the Airborne triable ASB besttits that's coated everything uh type three", "start": 8417.56, "end": 8424.96}, {"text": "abatement would be required which means containment and Capt capsulation possibly um it's it's of a", "start": 8424.96, "end": 8433.88}, {"text": "difficult process plus there's the lead removal in the paint on top of the plaster it it seems um impossible and", "start": 8433.88, "end": 8442.76}, {"text": "the statuary however are not tested for lead themselves but they are coated with the asbestos uh dust let's call it the", "start": 8442.76, "end": 8452.04}, {"text": "particulate um but uh ideally they could be encapsulated and relocated there was a question that came", "start": 8452.04, "end": 8458.96}, {"text": "up as well is it safe or feasible to salvage the decorative plaster work um", "start": 8458.96, "end": 8464}, {"text": "and no just because as we've heard the the contamination it's not feasible it's", "start": 8464, "end": 8469.24}, {"text": "not safe there are many levels of lead um asbestos uh that needs to be removed", "start": 8469.24, "end": 8476.76}, {"text": "before most anything else can happen", "start": 8476.76, "end": 8481.68}, {"text": "so um what can we do so Paul if you'd like me to step in yeah", "start": 8482.56, "end": 8489.8}, {"text": "please do Dan just for everybody who doesn't know me my name is Dan wck I'm the CEO of the veton group um and I've", "start": 8489.8, "end": 8496.88}, {"text": "been working on this file with Paul and Deb personally my my great uncle was the the last manager of the ti theater", "start": 8496.88, "end": 8503.64}, {"text": "before it shuttered so this is an important project for me personally and we we've taken this assignment very", "start": 8503.64, "end": 8508.76}, {"text": "seriously and based on the the findings from all of our Engineers John D who's", "start": 8508.76, "end": 8514.439}, {"text": "on the line and environmental engineers and our own personal assessments as Heritage Architects we've we've come to", "start": 8514.439, "end": 8520.04}, {"text": "the conclusion that it's we can't save the building itself but Alyssa pointed to these points in her staff report of", "start": 8520.04, "end": 8528.16}, {"text": "uh what what we can do to honor the Legacy and Heritage of the building moving forward and so there's three main", "start": 8528.16, "end": 8534.92}, {"text": "points here one is to protect and Salvage uh one through the donation sort", "start": 8534.92, "end": 8540.8}, {"text": "designated features like the medallions and statuaries which just as a point of clarification we not actually tested to", "start": 8540.8, "end": 8548.2}, {"text": "to confirm they were containing as Festus but we we assume they are but there is potential to save those and uh", "start": 8548.2, "end": 8555.359}, {"text": "the other piece for the protection was the detailed documentation uh that we have on record now so I'll I'll speak to", "start": 8555.359, "end": 8562.52}, {"text": "that in a bit uh from an interpretive standpoint uh we can interpret the", "start": 8562.52, "end": 8568.08}, {"text": "heritage of the ti theater through the design of the new building and we'll show how we make references and", "start": 8568.08, "end": 8573.2}, {"text": "dialogues with the unique features of the original architecture in our proposal that also at this point state", "start": 8573.2, "end": 8579.92}, {"text": "that you know this the design work is in its early Inception and early stages so there will be development as we continue", "start": 8579.92, "end": 8587.28}, {"text": "to develop the uh the the proposal and", "start": 8587.28, "end": 8592.439}, {"text": "then third through the commemoration and how how can we uh through this project", "start": 8592.439, "end": 8598.56}, {"text": "allow the public to uh recognize the importance of the unconscious Collective memory of the space and the heritage of", "start": 8598.56, "end": 8606}, {"text": "of the building so next slide so the uh the first piece I'll talk about", "start": 8606, "end": 8612.96}, {"text": "which which already mentioned was protection and Salvage of the building so there are some features that we are", "start": 8612.96, "end": 8618.08}, {"text": "proposing to uh retain and and turn over to the city for for storage uh and", "start": 8618.08, "end": 8624.08}, {"text": "really what's important and impressive about the undertaking of documenting the building is Illustrated in the images", "start": 8624.08, "end": 8630.08}, {"text": "below so the image on the right is a point cloud model of the building for those of", "start": 8630.08, "end": 8636.24}, {"text": "you who don't know this is uh image and a 3D model geospatial data that is", "start": 8636.24, "end": 8641.84}, {"text": "constructed using a special camera that uh Records the perimeter the building", "start": 8641.84, "end": 8648.279}, {"text": "the interior of the building in a very very accurate uh Manner and then we can", "start": 8648.279, "end": 8654.12}, {"text": "use that to have the to reconstruct a model which you see is like an", "start": 8654.12, "end": 8659.24}, {"text": "architectural 3D model on the left side that will very accurately represent the", "start": 8659.24, "end": 8664.76}, {"text": "proportions in the space and some of those features as well so in combination with photo documentation of the you know", "start": 8664.76, "end": 8672.279}, {"text": "very detailed portions of plaster and our ability to regenerate a model that", "start": 8672.279, "end": 8677.479}, {"text": "has the uh the scale and nature of space we can really produce a pretty accurate", "start": 8677.479, "end": 8684.08}, {"text": "representation of what that is and and we will we're proposing to use this as a commemorative piece as well which I'll", "start": 8684.08, "end": 8689.72}, {"text": "describe later next slide please but just to highlight you know", "start": 8689.72, "end": 8695.96}, {"text": "the importance of that technology in the restoration of Heritage buildings or the recording of Heritage buildings uh this", "start": 8695.96, "end": 8701.76}, {"text": "is an image of the Notre down cathedral which is recently reopened and there's a", "start": 8701.76, "end": 8706.8}, {"text": "great article that's available online that doc that documents and details how uh that that model was indispensable in", "start": 8706.8, "end": 8713.359}, {"text": "the recreation of the building after it burned and collapsed so we've undertaken", "start": 8713.359, "end": 8718.64}, {"text": "the same processes next slide please please to document the building and the", "start": 8718.64, "end": 8725.64}, {"text": "nature of this the images do look a little bit grainy but that's just the nature of the point Cloud these are all", "start": 8725.64, "end": 8730.8}, {"text": "um RBG points that uh uh that are in a in a density that uh renders them in", "start": 8730.8, "end": 8737.319}, {"text": "this sort of way but you can see that it's it's accurately recording the", "start": 8737.319, "end": 8742.479}, {"text": "existing condition of the building and some of these Heritage features that cering may see in a Lobby here next", "start": 8742.479, "end": 8748.16}, {"text": "slide please and not only the interior of the building and the Heritage fabric but it", "start": 8748.16, "end": 8754.319}, {"text": "also shows the position of the theater in the context of the the community and", "start": 8754.319, "end": 8760.52}, {"text": "the neighborhood next slide please and here again you see uh its", "start": 8760.52, "end": 8767.72}, {"text": "position and uh we' even recorded the um in the context of the jamest street here", "start": 8767.72, "end": 8772.92}, {"text": "in his Conservation District uh what's really unique about this technology is that as a user you can start to move the", "start": 8772.92, "end": 8779.319}, {"text": "walls and cut sections and really begin to interpret and understand what the uh the heritage in the original theater was", "start": 8779.319, "end": 8787.64}, {"text": "and next slide please so the next piece is how can we", "start": 8787.64, "end": 8793.8}, {"text": "interpret the heritage of the tily what can we do to imbue some of those ideas", "start": 8793.8, "end": 8799.68}, {"text": "back into our our design proposal and we're doing a a lot through our proposal um so the design of the new", "start": 8799.68, "end": 8808.84}, {"text": "building can reference the dialog with the unique features of TI's theater such as the jam Street entrance so here you", "start": 8808.84, "end": 8815.04}, {"text": "can see an architectural drawing of a facade that we're closing to reinstate into the podium of a larger", "start": 8815.04, "end": 8821.16}, {"text": "building um on the right here and then a marquee that we're looking at reinstating as well and then the", "start": 8821.16, "end": 8827.359}, {"text": "entrance into the the theater itself next slide please oh sorry just before", "start": 8827.359, "end": 8833.439}, {"text": "we pass on that so we we see that there's a significant contribution uh", "start": 8833.439, "end": 8839.04}, {"text": "Heritage contribution by adding this piece of the building back into the James Street streetcap and by uh", "start": 8839.04, "end": 8847.279}, {"text": "referencing the fenestration the scale the materials but in in a contemporary", "start": 8847.279, "end": 8852.56}, {"text": "fashion we're honoring the Heritage and the memory of the building and also filling in a blank space on James", "start": 8852.56, "end": 8860.16}, {"text": "Street next slide Dad please and finally I'll talk about as a", "start": 8860.16, "end": 8866.8}, {"text": "guiding principle or commemorative or commemoration um through public access to the building", "start": 8866.8, "end": 8873.279}, {"text": "so the proposed residential development will honor the legacy of the tily theater through multiple measures um one", "start": 8873.279, "end": 8880}, {"text": "of which was reinstatement of the lobby and the Marquee so in the previous image", "start": 8880, "end": 8885.08}, {"text": "that we just saw um a public uh venue space would be or a venue space would be", "start": 8885.08, "end": 8892.319}, {"text": "um accessible through the lobby so we would be entering into a sort of recreation contemporary Recreation of", "start": 8892.319, "end": 8898.319}, {"text": "that Lobby space is up Jam Street North and you would enter the building and Ascend up through the towers to to an", "start": 8898.319, "end": 8905.8}, {"text": "event space um another piece would be the introduction and reinterpretation of", "start": 8905.8, "end": 8911.439}, {"text": "commemoration of the original Carriage Factory which I just spoke about and a publicly accessible interpretive Lobby", "start": 8911.439, "end": 8918.319}, {"text": "space so we're proposing an interpretive Center at grade where we could", "start": 8918.319, "end": 8923.72}, {"text": "potentially um uh display some of those artifacts that are salvageable through the building but also", "start": 8923.72, "end": 8930.64}, {"text": "incorporate ideas like a um allow the public to interact with that geospatial", "start": 8930.64, "end": 8935.76}, {"text": "point cloud data through VR to allow them to experience the grer of the space", "start": 8935.76, "end": 8942.56}, {"text": "firsthand next slide please d uh so the proposed residential", "start": 8942.56, "end": 8950.479}, {"text": "development will honored the legacy of the tily theater through multiple measures including uh architectural and", "start": 8950.479, "end": 8957.12}, {"text": "interpretive material so the reinstatement of the LOB and the new Marquee in the same location as the", "start": 8957.12, "end": 8962.439}, {"text": "original t theater which I've already talked about is something that's sort pivotal to our to our proposal the", "start": 8962.439, "end": 8969.439}, {"text": "reinterpretation and commemoration of the original Carriage Factory building in the Heritage streetscape so we're", "start": 8969.439, "end": 8974.64}, {"text": "reinforcing the Heritage streets gate by reintroducing a building in the similar stature and style as the original the", "start": 8974.64, "end": 8982.24}, {"text": "publicly interpretive accessible interpretive space in the lobby uh which", "start": 8982.24, "end": 8987.279}, {"text": "will have artifacts print 3D mod models uh that are accessible through virtual reality to help the public understand", "start": 8987.279, "end": 8994.68}, {"text": "not only you know the Heyday of the theater but the entire lineage and history of the theater up until its", "start": 8994.68, "end": 9001.08}, {"text": "closure and that uh we're proposing through that Lobby space an interpretive", "start": 9001.08, "end": 9006.359}, {"text": "space a dedicated elevator that would take visitors to an event space designed in the Grandeur of the ti theater", "start": 9006.359, "end": 9012.399}, {"text": "Auditorium so not a not a replication of it because we don't believe in that but something that is a nod in a", "start": 9012.399, "end": 9018.76}, {"text": "contemporary fashion to all of those elements that we we've already discussed in this", "start": 9018.76, "end": 9024.12}, {"text": "presentation next slide please um so the commemorative elements", "start": 9024.12, "end": 9030.04}, {"text": "and interpretive materials will chronologically document the detailed history of the tiv theater from its Origins as a carriage Factory to its", "start": 9030.04, "end": 9036.319}, {"text": "eventual closing and this Rich history will be showcased through various multimedia exhibits like I've already", "start": 9036.319, "end": 9042.479}, {"text": "described so print Publications interactive installations and mainly", "start": 9042.479, "end": 9048.12}, {"text": "what we're really excited about is the opportunity to uh to allow members of the public to interact and view the", "start": 9048.12, "end": 9054.16}, {"text": "space that's currently shuttered through this virtual reality", "start": 9054.16, "end": 9060.08}, {"text": "experiencer next slide down please so all in all those are that's", "start": 9060.319, "end": 9065.68}, {"text": "how we were um uh proposing to protect", "start": 9065.68, "end": 9070.8}, {"text": "Salvage interpret and commemorate the the history of the theater and I'll just", "start": 9070.8, "end": 9076.399}, {"text": "turn it back over to Paul if you want to you have any closing words that you want to say before we we open it up for", "start": 9076.399, "end": 9083.04}, {"text": "questions um not really thank you Dan and I'd like to say that uh we're very", "start": 9083.04, "end": 9089}, {"text": "honored to present to this group um uh what you all do is very important", "start": 9089, "end": 9094.96}, {"text": "in the city of Hamilton is beautiful um unfortunately um unfortunately this", "start": 9094.96, "end": 9101.96}, {"text": "situation is one that makes me very sad and uh and uh if we're we're here for", "start": 9101.96, "end": 9109}, {"text": "any questions or comments that you may have thank", "start": 9109, "end": 9113.72}, {"text": "you okay thank you for the the presentation and taking the time to come in so uh we'll start with some questions", "start": 9114.2, "end": 9122.12}, {"text": "the speaker list we'll start with the counselor", "start": 9122.12, "end": 9126.841}, {"text": "crutch I think uh I really appreciate the presentation a couple things I'll say in response to to what you said Paul", "start": 9129.399, "end": 9137.319}, {"text": "yeah I went there with City staff folus in the war I team we toured it in some detail looked around it I promise I wore", "start": 9137.319, "end": 9143.56}, {"text": "lung protection the entire time uh as I was instructed to do and witnessed a lot of what Paul", "start": 9143.56, "end": 9151.04}, {"text": "talked about grateful that Paul explained this in some detail because I wasn't aware of things like how terracotta tiles or clay tiles and speed", "start": 9151.04, "end": 9157.6}, {"text": "tiles work how they're integrated into the fabric of the building itself and its structure like I didn't understand", "start": 9157.6, "end": 9163.68}, {"text": "all that kind of stuff so it was very very insightful I learned a lot on that tour and I've learned a lot in reading the reports a big question I think that", "start": 9163.68, "end": 9170.76}, {"text": "you can answer now and I have several questions I'll try to get through them all quickly so other speakers can can go", "start": 9170.76, "end": 9176.2}, {"text": "but we look at the timeline and I I'm I'm mindful of what the delegates had said earlier when at what point in this", "start": 9176.2, "end": 9183.04}, {"text": "20 plus year history or 34 years however you want understand this at what point do you think this got to the point of of", "start": 9183.04, "end": 9188.68}, {"text": "no return obviously you're looking at the current assessment now and saying you know we can only really look at what we see in front of us and when we've", "start": 9188.68, "end": 9195.279}, {"text": "been asked to do this work but I'm trying to understand because there are many milestones along the way that we", "start": 9195.279, "end": 9200.88}, {"text": "saw from the original timeline that Alyssa showed us in your estimation how long has the building been in this kind", "start": 9200.88, "end": 9206.96}, {"text": "of condition I would say for if if through", "start": 9206.96, "end": 9212.479}, {"text": "you Mr chairman um and I'm going to ask John to maybe", "start": 9212.479, "end": 9217.68}, {"text": "follow up what I have to say uh the the nature of the deterioration it it's not recent um it's", "start": 9217.68, "end": 9226.56}, {"text": "it's been happening for a very long time um uh because the deterioration has also", "start": 9226.56, "end": 9233.24}, {"text": "deteriorated uh so to speak uh I think it's been going through I mean it takes", "start": 9233.24, "end": 9239.8}, {"text": "a long time for a building to get to that level it's got to be I would say more than 20", "start": 9239.8, "end": 9247.359}, {"text": "years but I'd like JNS to maybe comment if he has anything to add to", "start": 9247.359, "end": 9252.56}, {"text": "that sure uh yeah Jonathan D with um principal of John G coken Associates um like Paul mentioned I mean", "start": 9252.56, "end": 9259.96}, {"text": "really this the issues we see here are ongoing um uh issues that would develop", "start": 9259.96, "end": 9266.2}, {"text": "over a longer period of time uh but they get to a certain point where um you know", "start": 9266.2, "end": 9272.52}, {"text": "the roof starting to fail for example uh most of the issues we see are moisture related and um you know once the roof", "start": 9272.52, "end": 9281.08}, {"text": "starts to fail and given the the difficulty and even repairing that that roof uh you know more water gets in and", "start": 9281.08, "end": 9288.359}, {"text": "these issues do tend to Accel at quite a bit so it's hard to say exactly you can't really say when this started", "start": 9288.359, "end": 9294.84}, {"text": "because it's it's a it's an exponential gradient you know it's hard to say at which point do you reach that decision", "start": 9294.84, "end": 9301.319}, {"text": "um but we can certainly evaluate it based on the way it is today and um and there are definitely concerns with uh", "start": 9301.319, "end": 9308.12}, {"text": "moisture getting into a number of the the uh elements of this building my my concern especially with the roof I mean", "start": 9308.12, "end": 9313.84}, {"text": "gypson panels there are gypson panels on the roof of the Royal York Hotel in Toronto that's a slop roof um this is a", "start": 9313.84, "end": 9319.72}, {"text": "flat roof made with the same panels and um you know once the flat roof fails", "start": 9319.72, "end": 9324.8}, {"text": "it's water gets in there and causes a lot of damage uh the steel structure as well as Paul described the you know the", "start": 9324.8, "end": 9330.64}, {"text": "building's not very complicated it's a steel steel columns with uh steel trusses and then um a composite masonry", "start": 9330.64, "end": 9337.2}, {"text": "wall built into those columns and um again uh you know moisture getting into", "start": 9337.2, "end": 9344.399}, {"text": "there's no there's no The Columns are not within a vapor barrier like you would do today they're they're part of a wall assembly that absorbs water and uh", "start": 9344.399, "end": 9353.08}, {"text": "and that deterioration we can't even evaluate it properly I can I can see that there are columns visible you can", "start": 9353.08, "end": 9358.8}, {"text": "you can pick the columns out on the building from the outside some more than others and that's a sign usually that", "start": 9358.8, "end": 9364.439}, {"text": "there's ongoing corrosion and uh because because rust expands as it steel expands as it corrodes and um you know I can", "start": 9364.439, "end": 9371.52}, {"text": "point to dozens of examples where we find steel embedded in masonry walls that is corroded um and uh you know but", "start": 9371.52, "end": 9379.68}, {"text": "I think the concern I have here you know like the Royal Bank building in Montreal I pulled two inches thick of rust off of", "start": 9379.68, "end": 9387}, {"text": "The Columns but those columns were huge a 20-story tower solid masonry um these", "start": 9387, "end": 9393.52}, {"text": "the flanges are a quarter of an inch thick so there's not a whole lot of Runway to to lose material so um you", "start": 9393.52, "end": 9400.52}, {"text": "know that's one of my concerns here as well but it's it's hard to say I guess to answer your question specifically it's hard to pick a point um because", "start": 9400.52, "end": 9406.96}, {"text": "these are all issues that did develop over a longer period of time but they will accelerate I guess at this", "start": 9406.96, "end": 9413.52}, {"text": "point thanks I asked because in some of the pictures we saw and some of the historical photos I've seen I've seen holes in the roof in here for 20 years", "start": 9413.52, "end": 9420.04}, {"text": "right so 20 years ago there were holes in the roof in some of these parts and so I guess I'm trying to understand", "start": 9420.04, "end": 9425.24}, {"text": "because I think it's a question being asked in the community to the extent that the current owner is responsible for the deterioration of this I'm just", "start": 9425.24, "end": 9430.84}, {"text": "going to be very blunt about that's a question we could asked a fair bit and people want to know hey they they came", "start": 9430.84, "end": 9436.2}, {"text": "on to this in 2022 kind of halfway through 2022 what kind kind of transpire between that period and now um is that", "start": 9436.2, "end": 9442.319}, {"text": "the period where we saw significant deterioration or really was the building almost unsalvageable at that point I", "start": 9442.319, "end": 9447.84}, {"text": "guess I'm just trying to get a better sense of that timeline with respect to the changing ownership if you if you know and also John you know I I'm", "start": 9447.84, "end": 9453.88}, {"text": "assuming that you corroborate the findings of of Paul and Paul's team and I've read your report and it might just be you know it might just be useful for", "start": 9453.88, "end": 9460.399}, {"text": "you to say that out loud uh yeah I mean he's he he paraphrased a lot of my my uh", "start": 9460.399, "end": 9466.64}, {"text": "findings um you know I think my report speaks for itself I I've I've said", "start": 9466.64, "end": 9472.08}, {"text": "things worded things the way I I intend to word them in my report but um uh I", "start": 9472.08, "end": 9477.16}, {"text": "think the gist is is essentially there from Paul and he he touches on all all the same concerns that I", "start": 9477.16, "end": 9483.359}, {"text": "have and do you have any thoughts on sort of like I was saying about the timeline for the current ownership in", "start": 9483.359, "end": 9488.92}, {"text": "mid 2022 you know do you think by the time that group came along this was already at that exponential place or do", "start": 9488.92, "end": 9494.359}, {"text": "you think it was previously you know I'm just kind of get a sense of that right because I mean that's that's again there's a lot of milestones and", "start": 9494.359, "end": 9500.12}, {"text": "timelines just trying to track all this information for the public yeah I I mean I was not in there", "start": 9500.12, "end": 9505.8}, {"text": "previously so I don't know that I can speak to that exactly um I was first in this building in uh January of last of", "start": 9505.8, "end": 9512.319}, {"text": "this year um and uh and then re uh re-involved uh of late um and even in", "start": 9512.319, "end": 9519.52}, {"text": "that period I can see differences especially in the roof at the corner that's Corner specifically where in fact", "start": 9519.52, "end": 9524.96}, {"text": "we installed Shoring we we you know in a hurry uh to make sure this Shoring was in place uh for that Pier that Paul", "start": 9524.96, "end": 9531.04}, {"text": "mentioned that was um is uh it's being displaced I I estimated about four", "start": 9531.04, "end": 9536.2}, {"text": "inches we used to level uh it's hard to get right up to it but you know we put in Shoring for that that column because", "start": 9536.2, "end": 9542.24}, {"text": "of uh the point to which that that uh deterioration had progressed and um um", "start": 9542.24, "end": 9550.76}, {"text": "yeah you know I I don't know what the the previous ownership um I was not involved then so I can't really speak to", "start": 9550.76, "end": 9556.04}, {"text": "that exactly but uh the roof certainly that has has progressed", "start": 9556.04, "end": 9562.64}, {"text": "further okay thank you I appreciate your honesty and trying to give us the best ofice you can obviously you can't go back in time it turns out and you're", "start": 9562.64, "end": 9568.68}, {"text": "going to have to look at the things when you assess them a few more questions I had I mean a lot of the questions I had", "start": 9568.68, "end": 9574.24}, {"text": "asked staff and I want to thank staff for bringing in another group to have a look at this who are registered and do", "start": 9574.24, "end": 9581.12}, {"text": "hist Heritage restoration work and that was a question I'd asked them to you know because I heard at the Heritage review permit sub people were asking", "start": 9581.12, "end": 9587.479}, {"text": "wait a minute can we have a second opinion or a third opinion of this and to get some folks in so I'm grateful that staff did that because I think it's", "start": 9587.479, "end": 9592.84}, {"text": "important for us to hear these details one of the things that we talked about here was an event space coming with an", "start": 9592.84, "end": 9598}, {"text": "elevator and I mean that sounds promising in a kind of way but I guess I'm looking for the development team to commit to more than that and what I mean", "start": 9598, "end": 9603.24}, {"text": "is that when I we when I went out and talked to some people who design art spaces and think about art spaces and", "start": 9603.24, "end": 9610.399}, {"text": "think about what today we need in 2024 in downtown Hamilton they came up with a list of five different things that they", "start": 9610.399, "end": 9616.399}, {"text": "hear regularly right um individual artists Studios Community exhibition", "start": 9616.399, "end": 9621.439}, {"text": "space meaning a place where communities can can come and do something not necessarily a gallery but a place where people can do things like that um dance", "start": 9621.439, "end": 9628}, {"text": "or theater rehearsal space which is a great need in our community um administrative space for arts groups", "start": 9628, "end": 9633.319}, {"text": "which is desperately need in our community and then of course like this idea of just having a blockx box venue which is kind of what we have now at the", "start": 9633.319, "end": 9639.92}, {"text": "at the base of the building and so I wondered if you could could speak to when you're going to be coming back for zoning if you were consider these things", "start": 9639.92, "end": 9648.04}, {"text": "because I think it's important for us to understand here today what you're proposing the community will get it's", "start": 9648.04, "end": 9654.52}, {"text": "great to have this idea of a reinterpretation but that can be a bit Hollow at times you know and I", "start": 9654.52, "end": 9660.399}, {"text": "understand that you're doing things in a progressive way and you're trying to do things in a modern way and trying to do them in a way that's sensitive and and want to have people have this experience", "start": 9660.399, "end": 9666.8}, {"text": "we created for them and having an event space but uh there are needs in the community and I'm wondering what the", "start": 9666.8, "end": 9671.92}, {"text": "plan is here to try and make sure that what you get as an end result uh is something the community actually has a a", "start": 9671.92, "end": 9678.12}, {"text": "deep need for and can use on a regular basis because I think that's what I hear from the community a lot is even though", "start": 9678.12, "end": 9683.16}, {"text": "we haven't had access to the space in a long time when people did have access to the space Community groups theater", "start": 9683.16, "end": 9688.24}, {"text": "groups uh you know Grassroots folks all kinds of people could do things here plan things here show movies here right and so it was something that was owned", "start": 9688.24, "end": 9694.52}, {"text": "in a collective way and so how can we bring that back to the community in terms of the kinds of assets we see we", "start": 9694.52, "end": 9699.76}, {"text": "need today so I want I wonder if somebody from the Development Group comment on that or put on the record what your intentions are and if You' be", "start": 9699.76, "end": 9705.439}, {"text": "willing to come back to speak to those kinds of kinds of changes during the Z process through the chair uh Edward John", "start": 9705.439, "end": 9713.279}, {"text": "planner for landwise and assisting with the development side of this process obviously we're here today on the Heritage side and I think that's a a", "start": 9713.279, "end": 9720.319}, {"text": "valuable question uh to back to the council in terms of the ultimate goal of this area we've here today trying to", "start": 9720.319, "end": 9727.08}, {"text": "achieve some cohesive commemorative space recognizing what we're losing if this is to proceed to demolition um as", "start": 9727.08, "end": 9734.52}, {"text": "we work on the development application and we're still working on that there's there's several Elements which I think could provide the opportunity I don't", "start": 9734.52, "end": 9741.12}, {"text": "think I'm in a position today to provide full commitment but in terms of the opportunity we've heard of the event", "start": 9741.12, "end": 9746.24}, {"text": "space itself um which um you know through that process will evaluate not", "start": 9746.24, "end": 9751.64}, {"text": "only what it looks like but what it could be used for um this still hasn't been a full decision there's going to be", "start": 9751.64, "end": 9756.88}, {"text": "a range of you know ideas that will be utilized for the event space we obviously have um the lobby space and", "start": 9756.88, "end": 9764}, {"text": "the interpretive space but we've also you know different to the previous tily application this application also", "start": 9764, "end": 9769.8}, {"text": "concludes those commercial spaces along Wilson Street and there have been discussions about you know recognizing", "start": 9769.8, "end": 9776.359}, {"text": "this area for its wealth in the culture and arts what can those spaces be used", "start": 9776.359, "end": 9781.64}, {"text": "as um to not only give back but to to you know fit in with that that cultural", "start": 9781.64, "end": 9788.12}, {"text": "expectation of James stre which has been the alert of the development team is why they chose this and obviously why they initially tried to ensure the the", "start": 9788.12, "end": 9795.08}, {"text": "Restoration in situe of of the tily theater so you know it's it's a long way of saying we're still working on it um", "start": 9795.08, "end": 9801.319}, {"text": "it will be determined through the development application um today we are looking at what is available for the", "start": 9801.319, "end": 9807.16}, {"text": "commemorative space um you know we are committing to certain areas for that but it is still a little bit in flux until", "start": 9807.16, "end": 9813.68}, {"text": "we get all of the design consideration and development considerations through the subsequent process so um I'm not", "start": 9813.68, "end": 9819.319}, {"text": "sure answer your question fully but there is opportunity here and we are in the position to certainly evaluate what", "start": 9819.319, "end": 9826.04}, {"text": "we can do to reflect some of those concerns coming from L activity but also the positive outcomes that we can", "start": 9826.04, "end": 9831.96}, {"text": "deliver on on the development yeah I was looking for a commitment to be honest that you would that you would look into those things", "start": 9831.96, "end": 9837.96}, {"text": "today and I hear you're saying you're not really committed to doing that at this time and that's fine there's a zoning process I'll see you there um but", "start": 9837.96, "end": 9844.16}, {"text": "or I'll be definitely asking for more information and more of a commitment from you to do something that the community the community itself will find", "start": 9844.16, "end": 9850.72}, {"text": "Value in um secondly third I have three questions uh secondly I think I want to ask you specifically I mean a bell has", "start": 9850.72, "end": 9857.479}, {"text": "been rung and I don't know where the Bell was WR and I apologize I'm real good at bringing my sources to things but occasionally you know I fall down", "start": 9857.479, "end": 9863.68}, {"text": "the stairs on something and I can't find where this was said I think it might have been said at Heritage review permit subcommittee but someone said look you", "start": 9863.68, "end": 9870.2}, {"text": "know we know that um we came to this project intending to restore this building based on what we understood at", "start": 9870.2, "end": 9876.6}, {"text": "the time and it a very preliminary assessment I understand that and I think the number was so like3 to4 million dos", "start": 9876.6, "end": 9882.16}, {"text": "is what we thought we'd have to spend and now we're looking at spending 18 to20 million some kinds of ranges like", "start": 9882.16, "end": 9887.24}, {"text": "that um am I making that up in entirely or did someone say that and where and if you know could you if if someone didn't", "start": 9887.24, "end": 9892.6}, {"text": "say that could you clarify what was your estimate in terms of the commitment you thought you'd have to spend to restore this theater and where do you see that", "start": 9892.6, "end": 9898.399}, {"text": "Financial commitment now if you were basically to recreate the entire theater from scratch $6 million plus obviously", "start": 9898.399, "end": 9903.6}, {"text": "we're talking about but what you know can you give us some ballpark estimates so we have a better understanding of that so through the chair to the council", "start": 9903.6, "end": 9910.319}, {"text": "and I I'll let Paul jump in we did provide some financial information in terms of the the cost to restore the", "start": 9910.319, "end": 9917.12}, {"text": "structure the envelope um and that was upwards of the the $5 million that might be the the 6 million um I don't recall", "start": 9917.12, "end": 9923.88}, {"text": "seeing specific estimates on the restoration of the plaster work I think the evaluation has to this point looked", "start": 9923.88, "end": 9931}, {"text": "at you know can it be done and I think that's the conclusion we're arriving at today but maybe I'll pass on to Paul for", "start": 9931, "end": 9936.399}, {"text": "some of more the financial pieces which would look at uh cost benefits my", "start": 9936.399, "end": 9941.6}, {"text": "question's not for Paul um I really want to be clear I just want to know when you came to this project what did you", "start": 9941.6, "end": 9947.2}, {"text": "estimate you would be spending to to the restoration work that's the number I've heard out there is 3 to 4 million I'm trying to get that answer okay so", "start": 9947.2, "end": 9954.84}, {"text": "through the chair to the counselor I'm not aware of that number I mean I wouldn't be surprised if it would cost", "start": 9954.84, "end": 9960.92}, {"text": "in that um ballpark for for the restoration of the Institue work um I", "start": 9960.92, "end": 9966.04}, {"text": "can work with the team and we can you know potentially offline come up with that but it it wouldn't be", "start": 9966.04, "end": 9972.76}, {"text": "insignificant okay my last question for now and then I have a couple comments before I turn over to other people I know we anxious anxious to ask questions", "start": 9972.76, "end": 9979.319}, {"text": "is about the short-term use so let's just imagine a situation where the James Street Baptist Church", "start": 9979.319, "end": 9986.8}, {"text": "has a back lot that back lot is growing with weeds and there's all kinds of stuff there and it's not really", "start": 9986.8, "end": 9992.24}, {"text": "accessible to the public as a public space we know of course parts of this property are used right now by the public for our crawl super crawl all", "start": 9992.24, "end": 9998.56}, {"text": "kinds of things right so what is the short-term commitment from the Development Group in terms of If This", "start": 9998.56, "end": 10004.24}, {"text": "Were to be demolished what that space would be used for how would it be controlled in terms of fencing How would how it be patrolled in terms of security", "start": 10004.24, "end": 10011.12}, {"text": "and how it be able to be used and accessed by the city its Partners other kinds of people in the community when there are things going on in the area", "start": 10011.12, "end": 10017.24}, {"text": "right so we're continuing to try and pedestrianized our downtown and have more and more vibrant events and festivals like how is this going to be", "start": 10017.24, "end": 10023}, {"text": "integrated into this I think it would be a real shame for no matter what happens for this whole thing to be sat locked", "start": 10023, "end": 10028.279}, {"text": "away uh for a number of years while the development process is going on and it kind of to be another another space in", "start": 10028.279, "end": 10033.56}, {"text": "our downtown that we have to kind of walk by stare at and feel upset about so through shair to the counselor", "start": 10033.56, "end": 10040.56}, {"text": "um and I think you are aware so the uh the owner of the site has made the site available particularly on those large", "start": 10040.56, "end": 10047.16}, {"text": "events such as art CW and super craw for eventors to come in free of charge they're trying to animate the space um", "start": 10047.16, "end": 10053.08}, {"text": "and I recognize the concern that the development process does take time and this could be that that sore tooth on", "start": 10053.08, "end": 10058.76}, {"text": "James Street um in that interim period so uh absolutely we've had some preliminary discussions about", "start": 10058.76, "end": 10065.439}, {"text": "maintaining access um through the site for those specific spefic periods but extending that to see the opportunity", "start": 10065.439, "end": 10071.16}, {"text": "for other events and other um abilities to animate the space as we go through", "start": 10071.16, "end": 10076.52}, {"text": "the development process there is the commercial Plaza which uh I believe will remain unaffected um but we've explored", "start": 10076.52, "end": 10083.88}, {"text": "the idea of of murials of art installations but maintaining some level of Public Access through that whether at", "start": 10083.88, "end": 10090.359}, {"text": "specific times or in general um making sure obviously the treatment of uh uh", "start": 10090.359, "end": 10095.64}, {"text": "the land itself um whether it's graded sorted um you know safe for for those", "start": 10095.64, "end": 10100.68}, {"text": "levels because it is an important integral area of the site um and we're", "start": 10100.68, "end": 10106}, {"text": "also connected to that that pseudo small area park and through this process we are looking at you know the pops idea", "start": 10106, "end": 10112.88}, {"text": "where you have that uh publicly accessible private space and how do you bleed that out of the site itself um for", "start": 10112.88, "end": 10120}, {"text": "that long term but particularly in the intrum we would be absolutely um open to", "start": 10120, "end": 10125.479}, {"text": "the idea of of creating through discussions with the city um you know the the continued access for", "start": 10125.479, "end": 10132.08}, {"text": "for public not just on certain events but uh for longer periods and making sure it's safe right and that includes", "start": 10132.08, "end": 10138.12}, {"text": "the the space not just in the commercial area but of course the place where the tiv is now and so making sure that that's you know grassed or whatever it", "start": 10138.12, "end": 10144.16}, {"text": "might be I know Lista want to jump in quickly so I'll turn to her uh through the chair again Alysa golden cultural", "start": 10144.16, "end": 10149.8}, {"text": "heritage program lead I just want to note in terms of the staff recommendations for the proposed", "start": 10149.8, "end": 10154.84}, {"text": "conditions of approval of the her permit as a part of uh condition I related to the larger conservation strategy which", "start": 10154.84, "end": 10161.399}, {"text": "we would require prior to demolition that would include a requirement for an interim um site plan so just an", "start": 10161.399, "end": 10168.64}, {"text": "understanding to the to the points being discussed here uh of how the site will be treated in the interim after", "start": 10168.64, "end": 10173.96}, {"text": "demolition before Redevelopment happens and we would be looking for that to come back through staff and address um some", "start": 10173.96, "end": 10179.439}, {"text": "of the key points that you you've heard just in terms of this discussion thanks and of course there a million dollar security as part of all that there's", "start": 10179.439, "end": 10185.56}, {"text": "different kinds of things built into I'll make some comments and then I have no more further questions at this point I just want to say you know I'm as angry", "start": 10185.56, "end": 10191.2}, {"text": "as everybody else is let be really clear I didn't sit on this committee lightly I didn't decide to be here as a representative for City Council on", "start": 10191.2, "end": 10197}, {"text": "Heritage you know set up a Heritage Council in W two because I care about the Heritage assets here and want to", "start": 10197, "end": 10202.16}, {"text": "make sure we protect them what I'm hearing from these folks is that these", "start": 10202.16, "end": 10207.56}, {"text": "assets don't exist anymore in a salvageable means so my focus is on what the community gets from this space what", "start": 10207.56, "end": 10214.6}, {"text": "we can do can I'm also focused on the idea that we need housing in our downt cord what whatever that looks like and", "start": 10214.6, "end": 10220.8}, {"text": "so if we save the sort of just shell of this which again seems like it's not even very savable with Broken Bricks and", "start": 10220.8, "end": 10226.52}, {"text": "things like that just to get to that point of understanding that is $6 million on top of that's another 105 $20", "start": 10226.52, "end": 10232.8}, {"text": "million probably in terms of all kinds of other things that would have to happen and then that would mean this this couldn't really be built uh up any", "start": 10232.8, "end": 10239.68}, {"text": "kind of way in that in that footprint where the for the 7500 square feet exists essentially right it's about 700", "start": 10239.68, "end": 10245.6}, {"text": "square meters approximately and that's about 7,500 Square F feet and so the", "start": 10245.6, "end": 10251.56}, {"text": "question becomes what does the community get for this and I just want to let everyone know like I'm very very committed to making sure that whatever happens here there's an actual usable", "start": 10251.56, "end": 10258.16}, {"text": "Community benefit that the community cares about and wants to have happen one of the great things about what happened in this process even though much of it", "start": 10258.16, "end": 10264.6}, {"text": "is quite sad and I'm pretty dismayed about it is that we have zoning tied to this specific situation so that means", "start": 10264.6, "end": 10272.16}, {"text": "that this can't just go through a process without public consultation it can't just happen um by you know active", "start": 10272.16, "end": 10278.2}, {"text": "counsel zoning is a public process and we have to go through the zoning process from scratch again and so that's really", "start": 10278.2, "end": 10283.84}, {"text": "important as a check that's a place where we can have conversations about Community benefits to a certain extent that's where we can talk about what it's", "start": 10283.84, "end": 10289.56}, {"text": "going to look like I think that's important so that's kind of where I on this project I'm I'm pretty depressed", "start": 10289.56, "end": 10294.68}, {"text": "about the fact that we're going to lose something like this or we could lose something like this uh I don't think what's here is salvageable and I'll say", "start": 10294.68, "end": 10300.12}, {"text": "from being in here the pictures don't do it justice I have reels and reels of photos of plaster coming off and all", "start": 10300.12, "end": 10306}, {"text": "kinds of other sections the entire roof of this place is just kind of slowly caving in and all the plaster is kind of", "start": 10306, "end": 10313.2}, {"text": "peeling off of it and if we can save some of these elements and put them into a new space and make sure that space has", "start": 10313.2, "end": 10318.76}, {"text": "a good Community use great um that would be something hopeful to have for our future uh I think it's sad when we lose", "start": 10318.76, "end": 10325.84}, {"text": "Heritage assets when this kind of stuff happens and we can't let this continue to happen one thing I can say from a", "start": 10325.84, "end": 10331.359}, {"text": "political perspective is then we have to invest in making sure we protect our heritage buildings and I understand what", "start": 10331.359, "end": 10337}, {"text": "the delegate said earlier about we can have a McMaster student help in some of this work except the city holds", "start": 10337, "end": 10343.96}, {"text": "liability so that McMaster student can't be liable for a decision can't be liable", "start": 10343.96, "end": 10349.08}, {"text": "for a report we have to have an engineer a structural engineer a professional who holds a designation there with that", "start": 10349.08, "end": 10355.479}, {"text": "person and guess what we're going to have to hire them we're going to have to put them on the tax payroll and we're", "start": 10355.479, "end": 10361.12}, {"text": "going to have to make sure that they are there to assist us in these situations we were able this time to get a third party review and that's great and that", "start": 10361.12, "end": 10367.12}, {"text": "probably cost us money to do that but having people around who are accountable to the public through the municipal", "start": 10367.12, "end": 10372.88}, {"text": "government is something I hear people asking for it's great if you get the developer to hire someone uh but the", "start": 10372.88, "end": 10378.359}, {"text": "public doesn't always have faith in that process they want to feel like the people working at the city are the ones", "start": 10378.359, "end": 10383.439}, {"text": "who are accountable for this who are the ones who are doing that work and I'll say we've been able in the last three four years to expand some of the", "start": 10383.439, "end": 10389.88}, {"text": "Heritage Department I'll call it and make it a little bit bigger and have more staff there and that's wonderful but that's not decisions the previous", "start": 10389.88, "end": 10395.96}, {"text": "councils made they did not put the resource into the budget to make this happen and", "start": 10395.96, "end": 10401.2}, {"text": "that's what we need to have happen and so just telling you I'm committed to making that happen the mayor's got a motion on the table for us to explore", "start": 10401.2, "end": 10406.92}, {"text": "what we need to be doing to ensure we preserve those buildings and it's going to take some work this is 25 years of us", "start": 10406.92, "end": 10412.72}, {"text": "not putting the resources in as politicians not the staff's fault us not putting the resources on the table when", "start": 10412.72, "end": 10418.279}, {"text": "asked for them so if we want things to be better we're going to have to change things", "start": 10418.279, "end": 10424.438}, {"text": "thanks you counselor so Andrew you ready for your question yeah I have a number", "start": 10425.399, "end": 10431.439}, {"text": "of question first couple are for staff so out of the nine criteria for", "start": 10431.439, "end": 10438.12}, {"text": "designation how many of those criteria are actually", "start": 10438.12, "end": 10443.398}, {"text": "architectural through the chair I'd probably have to just double check there is still historical associative value", "start": 10444.92, "end": 10450.76}, {"text": "and then in terms of design physical value what remains is the design of the", "start": 10450.76, "end": 10456.08}, {"text": "Interior Auditorium and Lobby that is yeah so how many are not those like", "start": 10456.08, "end": 10461.16}, {"text": "which which other criteria does it fit that aren't the design the architecture that type of thing I might actually ask", "start": 10461.16, "end": 10468.6}, {"text": "because so we have the previous two designation bylaws and then the Consultants prepared and updated culture", "start": 10468.6, "end": 10474.04}, {"text": "her impact assessment which included a review using Ontario regulation 96 to confirm those criteria so I might just", "start": 10474.04, "end": 10481.96}, {"text": "potentially look to Deb potentially to answer that for you", "start": 10481.96, "end": 10487.96}, {"text": "sorry to put you on the spot Dad I'm also checking my report I believe I did have the summary in my staff report as", "start": 10491.6, "end": 10497.2}, {"text": "well yes thank you um no problem and uh through you Mr chair the the the most", "start": 10497.2, "end": 10504.6}, {"text": "loss was under contextual uh criteria um the design and physical", "start": 10504.6, "end": 10511.2}, {"text": "value is remaining is in the Italian Renaissance style interior of the auditorium and there is historical and", "start": 10511.2, "end": 10517.479}, {"text": "associative value um of the history of course of the tiv", "start": 10517.479, "end": 10523.359}, {"text": "theater and the legacies of the carriage Factory uh and the architect of course", "start": 10523.359, "end": 10528.399}, {"text": "for both so it meets at least two criteria even without the building", "start": 10528.399, "end": 10535.279}, {"text": "then through the chair so uh I'm looking at appendix a uh attached to the staff", "start": 10535.279, "end": 10541.76}, {"text": "report so the cultural her impact assessment provided by the applicant section three of that and starting on", "start": 10541.76, "end": 10547.8}, {"text": "page 21 uh is an updated summary of those criteria and so it does confirm it", "start": 10547.8, "end": 10553.319}, {"text": "does still meet criteria 2 for the interior design value and historical", "start": 10553.319, "end": 10558.88}, {"text": "associative it still meets two of those criteria four and six and does not", "start": 10558.88, "end": 10564.479}, {"text": "retain any contextual value under criteria 7 through n okay and then uh", "start": 10564.479, "end": 10570.52}, {"text": "was there a condition assessment done in the past I'm guessing probably around 2004 when the first part of it fell down", "start": 10570.52, "end": 10579.84}, {"text": "through the chair um so my understanding in reviewing the history of that file and at that time um I know that things", "start": 10579.84, "end": 10586.479}, {"text": "were moving very quickly in terms of the partial uh collapse and then the need to do the partial demolition um I have not", "start": 10586.479, "end": 10593.399}, {"text": "seen a specific uh structural assessment from that time I think that was happening sort of on site as they were", "start": 10593.399, "end": 10600.08}, {"text": "determining where to um stop the demolition in terms of it being sound structure um so my recollection of the", "start": 10600.08, "end": 10607.479}, {"text": "file from the 2004 period is that there isn't a specific report that I could point to or highlight um I'll also note", "start": 10607.479, "end": 10615.12}, {"text": "in terms of having uh worked on and commented on the 2014 2015 resoning", "start": 10615.12, "end": 10621.239}, {"text": "process um as far as I recall there wasn't a specific condition assessment", "start": 10621.239, "end": 10626.68}, {"text": "at that time there was a Heritage impact assessment provided as a part of that process um but nothing that spoke to any", "start": 10626.68, "end": 10633.479}, {"text": "immediate concerns and that would need to be addressed that we would have followed up with as staff through either", "start": 10633.479, "end": 10638.8}, {"text": "missal law enforcement or Building Inspections that's to be honest outrageous to me that a building that", "start": 10638.8, "end": 10645.6}, {"text": "partially fell down 20 years ago no one ever thought maybe we should do a", "start": 10645.6, "end": 10651.84}, {"text": "condition ort before today um yeah I can't even to be honest", "start": 10651.84, "end": 10657.96}, {"text": "that staggers even the rest of my questions because I'm so surprised by that one uh you know to the consultant", "start": 10657.96, "end": 10664.72}, {"text": "team team how long has the owner been doing this type of", "start": 10664.72, "end": 10670.319}, {"text": "work like I assume he's got quite a history of you know doing development", "start": 10670.319, "end": 10676.2}, {"text": "work either within this city or a different", "start": 10676.2, "end": 10679.84}, {"text": "city yeah maybe I'll address that if Edward either Edward or myself will", "start": 10681.239, "end": 10686.72}, {"text": "address that through you Mr chairman the the owner is uh", "start": 10686.72, "end": 10692.16}, {"text": "uh the owner is uh very sensitive to Heritage work and uh I think they're", "start": 10692.16, "end": 10699.279}, {"text": "very disappointed that they can't um they are the owners they they are the same people that developed the Ancaster", "start": 10699.279, "end": 10706.12}, {"text": "Mill which if you if you if any of you are old enough to remember the condition of the Ancaster Mill it was terrible but", "start": 10706.12, "end": 10713.72}, {"text": "it was still salvageable uh they did the Cambridge Mill they've done the uh aora", "start": 10713.72, "end": 10719.96}, {"text": "Mill and several other buildings in the community which are all Heritage buildings um and there also the", "start": 10719.96, "end": 10727.76}, {"text": "president Rec L been awarded um the restoration of the Toronto power Generating Station which", "start": 10727.76, "end": 10734.319}, {"text": "is an uh an EJ lenux building in Niagara Falls the commonality between all those", "start": 10734.319, "end": 10740.92}, {"text": "buildings are where is that there are um much better stru structures um with uh", "start": 10740.92, "end": 10749.399}, {"text": "high integrity they were Stone largely Stone buildings uh through and through", "start": 10749.399, "end": 10755.359}, {"text": "um and they hadn't gone through uh the unfortunate uh um devastating", "start": 10755.359, "end": 10762.52}, {"text": "damage that this building has uh has gone through with the water so he's been", "start": 10762.52, "end": 10768.399}, {"text": "doing this a long time yes sorry councelor Douglas yes to answer you directly a long time yes I got", "start": 10768.399, "end": 10775.68}, {"text": "promotion uh yeah so you know because I've been doing this for a very short", "start": 10775.68, "end": 10780.84}, {"text": "period of time relatively speaking and if I'm looking at a building that's been", "start": 10780.84, "end": 10785.96}, {"text": "abandoned for 40 years or 30 years I", "start": 10785.96, "end": 10791.16}, {"text": "guess you know I'm not looking at a building that is salvageable", "start": 10791.16, "end": 10797.68}, {"text": "and you know to say that to come in and say oh we're going to save it we're going to save it and then two years", "start": 10797.68, "end": 10802.96}, {"text": "later oh it's got to be demolished nothing's changed in two years nothing's changed in 30 years or sorry in 20", "start": 10802.96, "end": 10809.68}, {"text": "years it it seems very questionable that the idea was ever really to salvage this", "start": 10809.68, "end": 10816.08}, {"text": "building I can't comment on that um I know that", "start": 10816.08, "end": 10823.8}, {"text": "uh we were involved um in we we worked uh we worked with the client to look at", "start": 10823.8, "end": 10830.439}, {"text": "options for salvaging it and uh sadly I'm the one who uh discovered the", "start": 10830.439, "end": 10837.76}, {"text": "systemic issue with these uh with these with this building and I revealed it to", "start": 10837.76, "end": 10843.76}, {"text": "uh the present owner so I guess I'm the one to uh to blame so to speak yeah", "start": 10843.76, "end": 10851.56}, {"text": "that's", "start": 10851.56, "end": 10853.8}, {"text": "everything any anyer yes okay any's got a couple of", "start": 10857.8, "end": 10864.359}, {"text": "questions yeah through the chair um I've got", "start": 10864.359, "end": 10870.64}, {"text": "a I got so many U things I like to say but uh I'm quite devastated on the situation", "start": 10870.64, "end": 10878.52}, {"text": "of how we got here um so I don't know if this is the Forum to actually do it maybe it'll be discussed at a further", "start": 10878.52, "end": 10884}, {"text": "date but I just felt I had to say something at the time um we have a bunch of safeguards that we hope is in place", "start": 10884, "end": 10890.84}, {"text": "to save Heritage we've got a lot of dedicated people throughout the city whether it being City staff or um uh", "start": 10890.84, "end": 10897.8}, {"text": "residents that try to preserve it and uh in this case part of the process was", "start": 10897.8, "end": 10904.399}, {"text": "done it was designated um but something was a massive failure in this", "start": 10904.399, "end": 10911.16}, {"text": "situation um and I um I guess this question would be to staff if something", "start": 10911.16, "end": 10917.52}, {"text": "is looked at where that failure happened on this particular like this wasn't a", "start": 10917.52, "end": 10923.2}, {"text": "one-time 100e storm that hit the area that caused damage this is decades and", "start": 10923.2, "end": 10929.359}, {"text": "Decades of neglect of a a designated building um and different owners I don't", "start": 10929.359, "end": 10935.68}, {"text": "know if uh if somebody's respons responsible or if you even look at who's responsible or just try to make it um", "start": 10935.68, "end": 10944.359}, {"text": "not happen again but uh it's very disappointing for myself personally um I", "start": 10944.359, "end": 10952.04}, {"text": "I put uh like a lot of effort into trying to you know save Heritage as we all do and um and um I volunteer for it", "start": 10952.04, "end": 10960.479}, {"text": "I'm not saying but um which and I love doing it but when you see something like", "start": 10960.479, "end": 10965.76}, {"text": "this of a building that uh well collapsed in uh 2004 whatever the date", "start": 10965.76, "end": 10971.52}, {"text": "was and uh or partial collapse and it just um there was still years and years", "start": 10971.52, "end": 10977.279}, {"text": "years um of neglect getting to the point that there's no choice than to uh", "start": 10977.279, "end": 10983.92}, {"text": "demolish the building it um it's extremely disappointing uh for myself um", "start": 10983.92, "end": 10990.2}, {"text": "so my question I guess um sorry for taking up your guys time um the uh maybe", "start": 10990.2, "end": 10996.84}, {"text": "the staff or counselor to um is there a a system in place that a Sy something", "start": 10996.84, "end": 11005.399}, {"text": "like this that we actually look into it to find out where the shortcomings happened and how can we", "start": 11005.399, "end": 11013.279}, {"text": "make sure it doesn't happen again that's all I have thank you uh through the chair kqu director of", "start": 11013.279, "end": 11020.84}, {"text": "Heritage and Urban Design um thank you Andy we do staff share your disappointment and concern um", "start": 11020.84, "end": 11028.72}, {"text": "uh I can't really speak to the specifics of this project having only been involved in Heritage in my role here for", "start": 11028.72, "end": 11035.52}, {"text": "about two and a half years um I I will point out as councelor cret pointed out", "start": 11035.52, "end": 11041.8}, {"text": "that the mayor has asked for us to review this and we expect a fome review to be looking at this in a wider", "start": 11041.8, "end": 11048.439}, {"text": "systematic way about why this is happening but from a Heritage point of view I'll point out that you it's always", "start": 11048.439, "end": 11054.68}, {"text": "a bad idea to have a building unoccupied um and it's an even worse idea once the", "start": 11054.68, "end": 11060.52}, {"text": "heat goes off and we've learned that over the years so you'll note in", "start": 11060.52, "end": 11065.68}, {"text": "examples most more recently with Pinehurst um that building we worked", "start": 11065.68, "end": 11071.08}, {"text": "with a developer to make sure it stayed occupied and heated during construction and during the time that um uh the", "start": 11071.08, "end": 11079.6}, {"text": "development application process was going forward to make sure it's safe and secure it's used heat's on so that's the", "start": 11079.6, "end": 11086.56}, {"text": "method we're going forward with um I expect we'll be working with our friends in Municipal law enforcement and", "start": 11086.56, "end": 11092.479}, {"text": "building to be strengthening our ability to um work with owners to make sure that", "start": 11092.479, "end": 11098.8}, {"text": "basic Property Standards are dealt with earlier in the process so we don't get to the point where we have catastrophic", "start": 11098.8, "end": 11104.72}, {"text": "failures or possibilities of catastrophic failures like we're seeing in this", "start": 11104.72, "end": 11111.079}, {"text": "condition through the chair thank you very much let's as anyone have any questions or", "start": 11111.72, "end": 11118.92}, {"text": "comments ly uh yes through the chair thank you uh thank you to uh the project team that", "start": 11118.92, "end": 11126.399}, {"text": "was a really informative uh presentation I guess just to follow up on Andy's uh", "start": 11126.399, "end": 11132.319}, {"text": "comments the um document here one of my questions was how long has the vacant", "start": 11132.319, "end": 11138.52}, {"text": "building registry been around um but this says it's been on the registry since 2020 I don't know when it", "start": 11138.52, "end": 11145.64}, {"text": "started um but the other thing is is that the city has been sending in", "start": 11145.64, "end": 11150.68}, {"text": "building inspection or bylaws on a quarterly basis I would have thought", "start": 11150.68, "end": 11156.16}, {"text": "that somebody from the city would have recognized there was an issue because this report says the city received", "start": 11156.16, "end": 11162.68}, {"text": "concerns that the building was unstructural sound which to me says that it wasn't City staff that recognized", "start": 11162.68, "end": 11170.92}, {"text": "it through the chair um so a a couple of points to that in terms of the pro cess", "start": 11171.96, "end": 11178}, {"text": "for in proactive inspection for buildings that are registered as vacant it is from the exterior so it's what you", "start": 11178, "end": 11185.56}, {"text": "can see unless you are gaining access to the property is what you can see from the from the public RightWay and and", "start": 11185.56, "end": 11190.64}, {"text": "from walking around the building um the particular issue that was raised um that", "start": 11190.64, "end": 11196.16}, {"text": "was addressed last fall through uh Property Standards order for the exterior repointing my understanding is", "start": 11196.16, "end": 11203.12}, {"text": "um it was at the top corner of the building and there were some loose bricks and so", "start": 11203.12, "end": 11208.68}, {"text": "um uh step cracking that um might not have been entirely visible and it was", "start": 11208.68, "end": 11214.08}, {"text": "raised by the adjacent property owner uh who uses I think the shared space to", "start": 11214.08, "end": 11220}, {"text": "access the the parking behind the building so very very", "start": 11220, "end": 11225.64}, {"text": "intimately uh has intimate knowledge of the site which might have been why that was identified by them versus the", "start": 11225.64, "end": 11232.16}, {"text": "proactive monitoring by staff um yeah hopefully that add addresses", "start": 11232.16, "end": 11238.359}, {"text": "addresses your question thanks Alissa um so I guess the", "start": 11238.359, "end": 11245.239}, {"text": "issue here is that the there's no inspection of the interior of these vacant", "start": 11245.239, "end": 11250.96}, {"text": "buildings um this was vacant for over 20 years is there", "start": 11250.96, "end": 11256.439}, {"text": "no uh process in place to ensure that the owners are taking care of the Interior I", "start": 11256.439, "end": 11263.439}, {"text": "mean water damage as as a you know from my experience with Greensville it was", "start": 11263.439, "end": 11269.76}, {"text": "the interior and water damage that was the issue and obviously water is what's", "start": 11269.76, "end": 11275.12}, {"text": "caused all of these problems with the tiv theater how can we address", "start": 11275.12, "end": 11282.681}, {"text": "this uh through the cheran cor director of Heritage and Urban Design um unfortunately we don't have with us oh", "start": 11284.16, "end": 11290.92}, {"text": "we do have Tor here from Emily Tor would you be able to take that", "start": 11290.92, "end": 11296}, {"text": "question", "start": 11296, "end": 11299}, {"text": "perhaps not", "start": 11305.72, "end": 11309.52}, {"text": "oh oh there we go um hi yes so my name is Toria KY from bylaw um sorry could", "start": 11313.359, "end": 11320.16}, {"text": "you repeat the question sorry I was just um wondering if there how we can address the issue of vacant", "start": 11320.16, "end": 11328.16}, {"text": "building sustaining uh water damage or any damage in the interior when the um", "start": 11328.16, "end": 11334.8}, {"text": "inspections are only on the exterior of a building there seems to be a definite", "start": 11334.8, "end": 11340.359}, {"text": "lack of something yeah because of the height of", "start": 11340.359, "end": 11345.8}, {"text": "the building I'm unable to view the roof um however with the interior inspections", "start": 11345.8, "end": 11351}, {"text": "from uh building department as well as Heritage Department I was able to uh view the uh condition of the roof so it", "start": 11351, "end": 11359.16}, {"text": "would probably be something we' have to speak to management over here at bylaw", "start": 11359.16, "end": 11364.92}, {"text": "regarding any interior inspections as I don't have the power to enter a building without permission from the owner", "start": 11364.92, "end": 11370.56}, {"text": "otherwise I would need to get a warrant to be able to inspect the", "start": 11370.56, "end": 11375.88}, {"text": "inside well you have a comment oh I just wanted to make a", "start": 11386.16, "end": 11393.359}, {"text": "correction um Mr chairman um the projects that I cited uh as examples for", "start": 11393.359, "end": 11399.479}, {"text": "the uh uh uh I can't remember the member um the name of the member forgive me U", "start": 11399.479, "end": 11406.319}, {"text": "there are projects that our firm has been involved in not necessarily this", "start": 11406.319, "end": 11411.84}, {"text": "owner Just Fur the record okay thank you for the clarification that was for uh", "start": 11411.84, "end": 11417.359}, {"text": "councelor Douglas anyone else have any comments thank you", "start": 11417.359, "end": 11423.479}, {"text": "oh go ahead Karen uh thank you very much I want to say um I found the presentation very", "start": 11423.479, "end": 11431.08}, {"text": "thorough very um yeah research is well done and um", "start": 11431.08, "end": 11437.68}, {"text": "I've got to say looking at the owners the owner of the ti right now if you're saying that they're the same owner as", "start": 11437.68, "end": 11443.68}, {"text": "the Ancaster Mill the aura mill no no they're not that's what I'm clarifying", "start": 11443.68, "end": 11448.96}, {"text": "yeah those are projects that we've been involved in not this group yes they're not involved at all in those projects", "start": 11448.96, "end": 11455.16}, {"text": "this is uh that's that's some other group our firm has been I misunderstood the question I thought it was asking", "start": 11455.16, "end": 11461.399}, {"text": "what projects we've been involved in uh so we've been involved in those projects no they're not the uh this this group is", "start": 11461.399, "end": 11468.439}, {"text": "not uh involved in those projects whatsoever okay all right well that sort", "start": 11468.439, "end": 11474.479}, {"text": "of changes what I was going to say my apologies my mistake I misheard uh I", "start": 11474.479, "end": 11480.6}, {"text": "misheard the member okay thank", "start": 11480.6, "end": 11485.319}, {"text": "you hey well thank you everyone I was G to make a comment more than anything else we lost the front part in", "start": 11488.84, "end": 11498.439}, {"text": "2004 and we lose the Century Theater in 2010 roughly and then we lost the gore", "start": 11498.439, "end": 11505.52}, {"text": "buildings all to water are we ever going to learn are we ever", "start": 11505.52, "end": 11511}, {"text": "going to improve our processes ever going to make sure we save our buildings in a", "start": 11511, "end": 11518.04}, {"text": "better way like I know it takes a lot of political resolve not just at the city level we have to talk at the the", "start": 11518.04, "end": 11524.52}, {"text": "provincial level to provide new rules policy structures and the tool gets for", "start": 11524.52, "end": 11530}, {"text": "the city to start entering these buildings and proactively inspecting and leaving it on the property owner's bill", "start": 11530, "end": 11537.72}, {"text": "not the taxpayers bill so we don't lose any more buildings it's a repeat like if", "start": 11537.72, "end": 11543.359}, {"text": "you don't learn from history you're doomed to repeat it and this is what we're doing right now so that's all I", "start": 11543.359, "end": 11549.76}, {"text": "wanted to say thank you Stefan you got a", "start": 11549.76, "end": 11558.08}, {"text": "comment yeah thanks to the chair uh it was a great presentation I just have a question for staff uh so it sounds like", "start": 11558.359, "end": 11567.479}, {"text": "the the structure that holds the designated plaster finish is compromised", "start": 11567.479, "end": 11573.92}, {"text": "so there would have to be a complete demolition of the building regardless", "start": 11573.92, "end": 11579.399}, {"text": "now if they decided to replicate that plaster finish would the Heritage", "start": 11579.399, "end": 11585.84}, {"text": "designation still apply to the replication or would that be completely null and void at that", "start": 11585.84, "end": 11593.2}, {"text": "point through the chair that's a very very good almost philosophical question I would say in terms of is that is that", "start": 11595.2, "end": 11602.92}, {"text": "still the same Heritage resource um I think it would depend on what the", "start": 11602.92, "end": 11609.64}, {"text": "outcome of this particular situation is and whether it would make sense to repeal a designation bylaw after that work were to be undertaken the current", "start": 11609.64, "end": 11616.92}, {"text": "staff recommendation is to not recommend repealing the designation Bas until the", "start": 11616.92, "end": 11622.239}, {"text": "entirety of the work is complete and part of that is to ensure that um the", "start": 11622.239, "end": 11627.64}, {"text": "the proposed conditions for financial securities and the preparation of a conservation strategy and the", "start": 11627.64, "end": 11633.64}, {"text": "implementation of all of that work is completed before the bylaws would be", "start": 11633.64, "end": 11638.88}, {"text": "repealed and um the means and mechanism of following through on those conditions", "start": 11638.88, "end": 11644.319}, {"text": "is is finished so um but philosophically", "start": 11644.319, "end": 11649.8}, {"text": "and maybe plus VG and folks want to want to chime in on this but essentially the the actual authentic resource would be", "start": 11649.8, "end": 11657.68}, {"text": "gone it would be recreated yes it is a philosophical", "start": 11657.68, "end": 11664.56}, {"text": "question Alisa um it I mean the debate there's some", "start": 11664.56, "end": 11670.6}, {"text": "debate around this topic as well on an international level when it comes to um", "start": 11670.6, "end": 11676.72}, {"text": "when it comes to the replacement of Heritage fabric um when", "start": 11676.72, "end": 11684.56}, {"text": "elements um when elements are replaced that have been destroyed within", "start": 11684.56, "end": 11692.239}, {"text": "the context uh let's say the majority of the context is", "start": 11692.239, "end": 11697.84}, {"text": "original then um ethically um I I think that I mean we're", "start": 11697.84, "end": 11705.239}, {"text": "Bound by a lot of sort of Ethics that the Venice Charter is one of the most", "start": 11705.239, "end": 11710.439}, {"text": "significant documents which is an international document and that essentially says one of the uh one of", "start": 11710.439, "end": 11716.76}, {"text": "the Cannons of that is that if you're going to replace something that was", "start": 11716.76, "end": 11722.479}, {"text": "Heritage it must be very distinguishable distinguishable clearly distinguishable", "start": 11722.479, "end": 11728.88}, {"text": "from what the original fabric is uh and you get extreme examples of", "start": 11728.88, "end": 11734.439}, {"text": "that in places like Milan uh the cathedral in Milan where they replaced uh stones that had deteriorated and", "start": 11734.439, "end": 11741.479}, {"text": "they've engraved the date of the of the replacement um large gravings uh on the", "start": 11741.479, "end": 11748.92}, {"text": "face of the stone saying it was replaced in 2020 or whatever um my opinion on it", "start": 11748.92, "end": 11756.76}, {"text": "is that once the Heritage fabric is gone um there is no", "start": 11756.76, "end": 11763.359}, {"text": "longer uh a designation on the idea of what was there already uh in the past um", "start": 11763.359, "end": 11773.199}, {"text": "and it's uh it would be uh really tough if um if the Heritage act said to", "start": 11773.199, "end": 11780.239}, {"text": "everybody that uh if you tear it down you have to build it exactly the way it was and how do you build it exactly the", "start": 11780.239, "end": 11786.319}, {"text": "way it was because we would never build that that we would never build anything", "start": 11786.319, "end": 11791.68}, {"text": "today the way that that is built and we would never do the finishes the way that", "start": 11791.68, "end": 11796.88}, {"text": "they are built uh currently so it becomes um uh it becomes vaporware and", "start": 11796.88, "end": 11804.96}, {"text": "and it's U kind of ethereal so it's a very good question we", "start": 11804.96, "end": 11810.479}, {"text": "get asked it all the time and in my uh humble opinion I'm not a uh I'm not a uh a", "start": 11810.479, "end": 11818.68}, {"text": "creator of I'm not one you know I'm not one of the writers of of the policies", "start": 11818.68, "end": 11823.96}, {"text": "that we all live with but in my opinion uh uh it's gone unfortunately", "start": 11823.96, "end": 11831.16}, {"text": "and if you have good people uh that want to commemorate it and look at the uh", "start": 11831.16, "end": 11838.76}, {"text": "cultural significance of the site and what it meant uh then we're fortunate to do that and I think that uh these owners", "start": 11838.76, "end": 11847.239}, {"text": "are quite interested in doing that uh and there are some elements from this that we can salvage in situ uh and um", "start": 11847.239, "end": 11857.04}, {"text": "and incorporate into the building uh but I have to say it's debatable it's all", "start": 11857.04, "end": 11864.359}, {"text": "debatable how did I do", "start": 11865.319, "end": 11868.841}, {"text": "Alisa thanks Paul through the chair I'll also just note um in our staff report", "start": 11870.399, "end": 11875.68}, {"text": "under the um policy section there is mention of our city policies from our", "start": 11875.68, "end": 11881.239}, {"text": "official plan that speak to when we do lose a Heritage resource what the appropriate measures of mitigation are", "start": 11881.239, "end": 11887.16}, {"text": "and I I will note that the the recommendations from the applicants cultural heritage impact assessment and", "start": 11887.16, "end": 11892.8}, {"text": "staff's recommendations for conditions of approval of this permit uh are in line with those expectations in terms of", "start": 11892.8, "end": 11898.6}, {"text": "commemoration interpretation um uh sort of uh paying homage to the design uh fitting into the", "start": 11898.6, "end": 11906.239}, {"text": "the recreation uh and interpretation of the former Carriage Factory portion on", "start": 11906.239, "end": 11911.439}, {"text": "James Street North the full scope of what's being proposed uh and recommended here in our staff conditions are", "start": 11911.439, "end": 11917}, {"text": "consistent with those", "start": 11917, "end": 11919.8}, {"text": "policies anyone have any followup questions comments", "start": 11922.439, "end": 11927.881}, {"text": "okay see thenone the Mover in a second to receive the", "start": 11929.16, "end": 11935.359}, {"text": "presentation I see Andrew and Karen anyone", "start": 11935.359, "end": 11941.04}, {"text": "opposed see we move on uh so now we move on to the actual report so do we have a", "start": 11942.239, "end": 11948.239}, {"text": "mover and a second to put the report recommendations on the floor I see councelor crutch and ly", "start": 11948.239, "end": 11957.479}, {"text": "I have to read through all [Laughter]", "start": 11958.64, "end": 11964.76}, {"text": "this good counselor yeah thanks very much I want to make a couple of final comments on", "start": 11964.76, "end": 11970.64}, {"text": "this as we're getting to the report firstly I want to thank the Heritage permit review subcommittee who didn't", "start": 11970.64, "end": 11976.72}, {"text": "have the benefit of all this information Franklin so I want to say that so when you went to consider this you didn't have that the third party independent", "start": 11976.72, "end": 11983.6}, {"text": "report you didn't have the benefit of having all these folks here to ask questions to and to get a detailed explanation for and so completely", "start": 11983.6, "end": 11989.76}, {"text": "understand why the vote went the way that it did and why people are so angry especially hearing about it right away", "start": 11989.76, "end": 11995.199}, {"text": "the reasons why I'll be supporting the staff recommendation today primarily are the last things Paul said we've heard", "start": 11995.199, "end": 12001.52}, {"text": "all the reasons already why but the last thing he said is important if we are attempting to salvage what's left that", "start": 12001.52, "end": 12007.64}, {"text": "we can keep for future Generations we're going to have to do that quickly and", "start": 12007.64, "end": 12012.88}, {"text": "that work's going to have to start soon and as part of a demolition process so we can get the things out of there if we", "start": 12012.88, "end": 12018.279}, {"text": "wait um tie this up let it sit there try to structurally reinforce it and I don't", "start": 12018.279, "end": 12024.199}, {"text": "know a major storm comes through and collapses the roof any number of things can happen then we could get a order to", "start": 12024.199, "end": 12030.439}, {"text": "demolish and then that's it those things are going to be gone and not there's not going to be time to save them the work of saving them alone is going to cost a", "start": 12030.439, "end": 12036.88}, {"text": "lot of money the work of actually doing that going in there sensitively Excavating those kinds of things making sure they're preserved and replicating", "start": 12036.88, "end": 12043.52}, {"text": "them is in itself quite a bit of work and it needs to start immediately so so I'm sensitive to that because I hear the community saying let's try and save some", "start": 12043.52, "end": 12049.6}, {"text": "of this stuff if we want to then we're going to have to act quickly and so for the safety also of everybody in the", "start": 12049.6, "end": 12054.96}, {"text": "neighborhood I don't need to talk to you all about what it feels like when buildings collapse and what it means for", "start": 12054.96, "end": 12060.239}, {"text": "us all I was there at that site in Gore Park just maybe 12 15 hours before and", "start": 12060.239, "end": 12066}, {"text": "understand the impact of when buildings collapse what it does don't want to see that happening here and we're hearing clearly from these folks it's a safety", "start": 12066, "end": 12071.84}, {"text": "concern it's in danger of collapsing especially that one corner and I don't I think now that we have that knowledge", "start": 12071.84, "end": 12077.52}, {"text": "and have that information we have to act responsibly about it so I'll be supporting staff's recommendation very reluctantly um and hopeful that we can", "start": 12077.52, "end": 12084.199}, {"text": "continue to figure out through the mayor's motion why these things keep happening prevent them from happening and to Graham's point you know we know that water causes this problem we know", "start": 12084.199, "end": 12090.52}, {"text": "that we have to get the right staff on on board to be able to inspect these things more proactively and I'm", "start": 12090.52, "end": 12096.199}, {"text": "committed to doing that as a member of this committee and on this term of council and committed to making sure that whatever happens here we get a", "start": 12096.199, "end": 12102.56}, {"text": "community benefit that people can look back to and think uh you know proudly", "start": 12102.56, "end": 12108.96}, {"text": "of so do anyone have any questions on the recommendations", "start": 12109.479, "end": 12114.84}, {"text": "Andrew yes through the chair I do have some comments regarding the recommendations you know what was really", "start": 12114.84, "end": 12121.199}, {"text": "funny is as soon as I saw this and all the other things that are happening in Hamilton what comes to my mind first is", "start": 12121.199, "end": 12127}, {"text": "actually a Simpsons episode where Bart Simpson buys a factory and he said asked mil Hotes to watch over it and then he", "start": 12127, "end": 12133.239}, {"text": "comes back the next day and it fell down he's like what weren't you watching is like yeah of course I was watching it I watched it start to fall over and then", "start": 12133.239, "end": 12139.64}, {"text": "it fell over and that's exactly what we're doing here we just yeah everyone watched it we've been watching this", "start": 12139.64, "end": 12145.239}, {"text": "building for 40 years and we watched it part of it fall over no one did anything the rest of it fell over no one did", "start": 12145.239, "end": 12151.68}, {"text": "anything and approving this really sends a message to developers that don't worry", "start": 12151.68, "end": 12157.399}, {"text": "about Heritage just open the windows let nature take its course the building will", "start": 12157.399, "end": 12163.8}, {"text": "fall down you don't have to worry about it at all now my direct concerns with the report itself are really that you", "start": 12163.8, "end": 12172.04}, {"text": "know there's a lot of oh we could do this or we could do that and if you", "start": 12172.04, "end": 12177.16}, {"text": "approve demolition then we'll work with you and we'll do something and what we're going to end up with is three glass cases with the remnants of this", "start": 12177.16, "end": 12184.64}, {"text": "building in it so that the developer can go look we defeated Heritage here's our Monument to that like we have so much in", "start": 12184.64, "end": 12191.72}, {"text": "this city so many monuments to failure of where heritage we just did it Council", "start": 12191.72, "end": 12198.399}, {"text": "just did it to the church over by the library where they're going to have a couple pieces sitting inside the lobby", "start": 12198.399, "end": 12204.279}, {"text": "but the building is long gone Heritage is not is not viewed as important in", "start": 12204.279, "end": 12209.8}, {"text": "this city and it's being seen time and time again and now we have a report that says that you know we'll work with them", "start": 12209.8, "end": 12215.6}, {"text": "and we'll come up with something no I want to see exactly what they're doing before I approve a demolition I want to", "start": 12215.6, "end": 12222.359}, {"text": "know exactly what it is what the conditions are what they're actually going to do before an approval happens", "start": 12222.359, "end": 12228.359}, {"text": "it is definitely a safety issue and I agree but you know what this person bought the building knowing full well", "start": 12228.359, "end": 12233.88}, {"text": "that the things coming down because we've all known the things coming down so guess what hurry up and do it then", "start": 12233.88, "end": 12239.279}, {"text": "hurry up and get us these reports and get us what you actually intend to do", "start": 12239.279, "end": 12244.319}, {"text": "and then maybe if it's actually something that commemorates the heritage", "start": 12244.319, "end": 12249.56}, {"text": "in a real way that's something that I could approve that's it for", "start": 12249.56, "end": 12254.72}, {"text": "me thank you is there anybody else", "start": 12254.72, "end": 12261.479}, {"text": "oh yeah thanks I just want to respond to that I I hear you you know I think the the balance or the problem or the issue", "start": 12261.479, "end": 12267.479}, {"text": "in front of us is that and I see this every day as a member of the planning committee so as you know I'm on the", "start": 12267.479, "end": 12272.88}, {"text": "Heritage committee I'm also on the planning commit I'm going to Steward this through the and I'm said to you I mean it I'll do everything I can to", "start": 12272.88, "end": 12278.479}, {"text": "through the zoning process ens sure we get something it's not just a glass case with things in it and I've heard from them today and they're saying they're", "start": 12278.479, "end": 12283.68}, {"text": "not going to do that it's on the public record so I'm not worried that's what we're going to end up with here I think", "start": 12283.68, "end": 12288.96}, {"text": "the issue is that if we decide to wait for a site application process for all these details come forward I'll just", "start": 12288.96, "end": 12294.8}, {"text": "tell you again as a member of the planning committee that's going to take months and months and months what I hear is that in the next several months this", "start": 12294.8, "end": 12302.239}, {"text": "is going to get worse and worse and worse and we're at a point of the it's it's a very depressing thing I mean this time of year especially but we're in a", "start": 12302.239, "end": 12308.52}, {"text": "place where the weather is not great meaning it's winter time in Canada we all know what that means and so I don't", "start": 12308.52, "end": 12314.04}, {"text": "think I'd feel okay sleeping at night knowing that this is going to sit there waiting to potentially fall down we were", "start": 12314.04, "end": 12319.68}, {"text": "very very lucky that no one was injured when the Gore Park buildings fell down I know that I don't want to be in a position where that's the case where", "start": 12319.68, "end": 12325.92}, {"text": "something happens here and someone gets injured because it's on a main public thoroughfare in area uh there's construction actually actively going on", "start": 12325.92, "end": 12332.439}, {"text": "right now on Houston Street if you don't know that um other kinds of building happening across the road there's other kinds of stuff happening in the area and", "start": 12332.439, "end": 12338.52}, {"text": "lots of people uh and I'm really worried about something happening to this building uh where we again it falls down", "start": 12338.52, "end": 12343.6}, {"text": "or starts to collapse and we don't get to save any of the Heritage features so I mean I think that's that's where my focus is I understand again why people", "start": 12343.6, "end": 12350.319}, {"text": "are frustrated about this I don't think this sends a message to people that they can get away with doing this I don't", "start": 12350.319, "end": 12355.6}, {"text": "think that the current owner is ultimately 100% responsible for why we end up here today yes you're right that", "start": 12355.6, "end": 12361.88}, {"text": "uh they had some foreset to come into this development should have known these kinds of things but I'll tell you my experience that a lot of times when", "start": 12361.88, "end": 12368.68}, {"text": "these transactions happen around Heritage buildings um it's not there not always", "start": 12368.68, "end": 12374.479}, {"text": "an opportunity to do a huge full assessment right up front and understand all the issues there's one in Corktown right now where uh folks came in bought", "start": 12374.479, "end": 12381.04}, {"text": "some apartment buildings and thought that they were going to be in a reasonable shape and then as they did more investigations they got more", "start": 12381.04, "end": 12386.16}, {"text": "professionals involved they found uh oh um we're in a bit of a situation here for maintenance other kinds of things so", "start": 12386.16, "end": 12391.399}, {"text": "I I take them at their word I think these professionals who looked this stuff over have also done that work and made sure that it that it was in their", "start": 12391.399, "end": 12398.199}, {"text": "reports so yeah I understand your frustration though it is it is deeply frustrating all of", "start": 12398.199, "end": 12403.6}, {"text": "this thank you counselor okay a anybody", "start": 12403.6, "end": 12408.56}, {"text": "else okay okay uh thank you yeah and I I do", "start": 12410.88, "end": 12418.16}, {"text": "feel my opinion has changed from the permit review committee meeting to now", "start": 12418.16, "end": 12424.68}, {"text": "where I do feel that we're better informed about everything we have second opinion or third opinion or whatever it is and um I don't think there's I", "start": 12424.68, "end": 12434.319}, {"text": "there's okay I don't think that there's much opportunity to save this right I", "start": 12434.319, "end": 12439.6}, {"text": "mean we've heard all the risks all the all the the weaknesses in this structure", "start": 12439.6, "end": 12444.88}, {"text": "as compared to other structures that have been saved so you know I think that we should take the recommendation as", "start": 12444.88, "end": 12453}, {"text": "staff has made as the um as the um people on the screen have made and", "start": 12453, "end": 12458.399}, {"text": "Salvage what can be salvaged but the rest of it realize it is a tragedy it is absolutely tragic but um and I don't see", "start": 12458.399, "end": 12465.64}, {"text": "a lot of Choice here either in terms of being able to restore this so that's how", "start": 12465.64, "end": 12470.76}, {"text": "I'm going to vote thank you Karen okay I'm gonna keep", "start": 12470.76, "end": 12476.92}, {"text": "quiet myself because I don't think I could do it very reasonably okay", "start": 12476.92, "end": 12483.76}, {"text": "so uh and I'll vote on the recommendations is there anyone opposed to accepting the staff recommendations", "start": 12483.76, "end": 12492.841}, {"text": "okay only seeing two staff recommendations or", "start": 12496.239, "end": 12502.079}, {"text": "passed can you make sure the record reflects the two oppositions please in the report thank can we take a", "start": 12504.84, "end": 12513.16}, {"text": "five minute recess thank you y that that's what I just going to suggest", "start": 12513.16, "end": 12521.479}, {"text": "okay 10 minute recess so we'll come back for 3 o'cl okay oh anyone oppos seeing", "start": 12530.239, "end": 12538.6}, {"text": "none", "start": 12555.04, "end": 12558.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 12585.04, "end": 12588.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 12614.96, "end": 12617.96}, {"text": "e", "start": 12644.92, "end": 12647.92}, {"text": "e", "start": 12674.92, "end": 12677.92}, {"text": "e", "start": 12704.84, "end": 12707.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 12734.84, "end": 12737.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 12764.84, "end": 12767.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 12794.76, "end": 12797.76}, {"text": "e", "start": 12824.72, "end": 12827.72}, {"text": "e", "start": 12854.72, "end": 12857.72}, {"text": "e", "start": 12884.64, "end": 12887.64}, {"text": "e", "start": 12914.64, "end": 12917.64}, {"text": "e", "start": 12944.64, "end": 12947.64}, {"text": "e", "start": 12974.56, "end": 12977.56}, {"text": "e", "start": 13004.52, "end": 13007.52}, {"text": "e", "start": 13034.52, "end": 13037.52}, {"text": "e", "start": 13064.439, "end": 13067.439}, {"text": "e", "start": 13094.439, "end": 13097.439}, {"text": "e e", "start": 13124.439, "end": 13128.439}, {"text": "welcome back everyone um we're now moving on to our consent items um we have before us item 9.1 which is our", "start": 13175.56, "end": 13182.239}, {"text": "Hamilton Municipal Heritage committee year in review 2024 which is PED", "start": 13182.239, "end": 13187.72}, {"text": "24235 uh and staff are going to provide us with a quick", "start": 13187.72, "end": 13192.398}, {"text": "presentation thank you through the chair just looking to share a full screen and", "start": 13193.76, "end": 13199.68}, {"text": "I haven't done that in a while let me just try to find it", "start": 13199.68, "end": 13206.6}, {"text": "it's very mad I'm not do you know where the full screen button", "start": 13221.6, "end": 13226.64}, {"text": "is okay thank you um so in front of you today is H just an information report", "start": 13230.239, "end": 13236.68}, {"text": "giving you a summary of everything that this committee and her Chef have done the past year and just want to walk you", "start": 13236.68, "end": 13243.239}, {"text": "through some of those highlights uh with some", "start": 13243.239, "end": 13247.239}, {"text": "slides so we've had a very busy year in terms of designations shown here are", "start": 13249.16, "end": 13254.72}, {"text": "just some highlights of some of the properties that we've had designation bylaws passed for this past", "start": 13254.72, "end": 13260.96}, {"text": "year and looking at the actual passing of bylaws we have 13 designation bylaws", "start": 13261.64, "end": 13266.76}, {"text": "passed this year and just to give you an idea of how this Compares since amalgamation you can see we're on a", "start": 13266.76, "end": 13273.12}, {"text": "steady steady increase that jum in 2022 was actually due to the water down inventory so this is a pretty", "start": 13273.12, "end": 13279.239}, {"text": "substantial number of bylaws that we've been able to bring forward in a single year looking over the last 20 or so", "start": 13279.239, "end": 13286.438}, {"text": "years but also important to note and as was uh included in our staff report just", "start": 13287.04, "end": 13292.56}, {"text": "a few months ago on our overall designation work plan um obviously there's different steps to the", "start": 13292.56, "end": 13297.96}, {"text": "designation process we've managed to advance uh just over 20 designations this year in review of properties for", "start": 13297.96, "end": 13303.68}, {"text": "designation so in addition to actual bylaws passed we also have properties that are currently subject to notices of", "start": 13303.68, "end": 13309}, {"text": "intention to designate uh which are highlighted", "start": 13309, "end": 13313.56}, {"text": "here and through our new process for dealing with request to designate and addressing the pressures related to", "start": 13314.319, "end": 13320.439}, {"text": "potential prescribed events under the planning Act and the new um the new process related to register listings we", "start": 13320.439, "end": 13327.64}, {"text": "now have a new process where we list properties that are identified as candidates for designation on a public", "start": 13327.64, "end": 13332.72}, {"text": "list and we've been providing updates to this committee throughout the year and shown here is a summary of the 11", "start": 13332.72, "end": 13338.359}, {"text": "properties that have been screened by staff and added to this public list in", "start": 13338.359, "end": 13344.318}, {"text": "2024 also in terms of properties we've proactively listed on the register and as this as this committee knows we now", "start": 13347.68, "end": 13354}, {"text": "have to be strategic about how we do that because of the limitations on how long and when we can relist properties", "start": 13354, "end": 13360.6}, {"text": "uh but we have proactively listed a number of individual properties throughout the year through our proactive listing reports as well we saw", "start": 13360.6, "end": 13367.72}, {"text": "a huge chunk of properties proactively listed in Dundas and that's following the Melville Street her Conservation", "start": 13367.72, "end": 13373.76}, {"text": "District study and providing um interim protection while we work through the next stages of that process and", "start": 13373.76, "end": 13380.08}, {"text": "preparing a plan next year and as summarized in the", "start": 13380.08, "end": 13386.8}, {"text": "information report uh just a high Lev sort of set of statistics of uh what", "start": 13386.8, "end": 13392.12}, {"text": "we've been doing the past year in terms of meetings reports um Heritage permits", "start": 13392.12, "end": 13398}, {"text": "processed and all the great work that you folks do in terms of your working groups and its commitments as", "start": 13398, "end": 13404.601}, {"text": "well and of course the thing that keeps us going the recognition award is really", "start": 13406.479, "end": 13411.96}, {"text": "um fantastic opportunity to celebrate the positives of Heritage and what's been done across the city and it was a", "start": 13411.96, "end": 13418.399}, {"text": "fantastic event this June with 24 winners across 11 categories identified through this committee", "start": 13418.399, "end": 13426.399}, {"text": "and I also just wanted to highlight that staff also hosted a walking tour as a part of the um professional planners", "start": 13428.199, "end": 13434.92}, {"text": "conference that was held here in September and we did a tour of the historic Duran neighborhood and walked", "start": 13434.92, "end": 13441.8}, {"text": "planners around the neighborhood showing how intensification has been addressed in the neighborhood uh one of the oldest", "start": 13441.8, "end": 13448.399}, {"text": "in the city of Hilton and then I just want to um give", "start": 13448.399, "end": 13455.399}, {"text": "my thanks to our overall Heritage planning team there's a small But Mighty", "start": 13455.399, "end": 13460.439}, {"text": "and continuing to grow group of us that are um accomplishing this work across", "start": 13460.439, "end": 13465.52}, {"text": "the city from our uh Chief planner down to our heritage Co-op students which", "start": 13465.52, "end": 13471.159}, {"text": "help us tick and uh just want to thank uh our staff who are either on leave and also returning from leave and all the", "start": 13471.159, "end": 13477.76}, {"text": "contributions of our team this past year thank you so much", "start": 13477.76, "end": 13485.641}, {"text": "thank you for that presentation Alisa and thank you to everyone I think this is a testament to all the work that", "start": 13485.96, "end": 13491.12}, {"text": "volunteer members have been involved with but what staff has been able to to to undertake over this year it's incredible to see where we've come from", "start": 13491.12, "end": 13498.12}, {"text": "and what we've been able to accomplish in just that one year so really do thank you for putting that report together and that's that's a great Testament um may I", "start": 13498.12, "end": 13504.84}, {"text": "have a mover in a second or to put uh to uh uh for receiving this", "start": 13504.84, "end": 13510.239}, {"text": "item if there's any questions we'll put the report on the floor soorry see Karen", "start": 13510.239, "end": 13515.6}, {"text": "and Graham and is there any questions or", "start": 13515.6, "end": 13520.8}, {"text": "clarifications seeing none is there anyone opposed as we move to vote see none that item is carried uh", "start": 13520.8, "end": 13528.359}, {"text": "we'll now move on to the balance of our consent items may have a move a second to put the balance of the consent items on the floor I see", "start": 13528.359, "end": 13535.8}, {"text": "Andrew and Graham so these are our education and communication group uh working group meeting notes number 9.2", "start": 13535.8, "end": 13542.8}, {"text": "uh as well as 9.3 which is our heritage permit subcommittee meeting minutes is there any questions in regards to that", "start": 13542.8, "end": 13549.199}, {"text": "as we move to vote is there anyone opposed seeing none that item is carried", "start": 13549.199, "end": 13554.359}, {"text": "um I will now pass chair back over to Graham thank you so now we're on to item", "start": 13554.359, "end": 13560.56}, {"text": "10.1 the uh demolition of 537 King Street Road East or King Street East uh", "start": 13560.56, "end": 13568.72}, {"text": "Hamilton being a non-designated property listed in the municipal Heritage register with unsafe order to comply", "start": 13568.72, "end": 13575.439}, {"text": "this was the former Rebels Rock building we have a mover in a second put his item", "start": 13575.439, "end": 13580.6}, {"text": "on the floor I see Andrew and", "start": 13580.6, "end": 13586.359}, {"text": "Andy there a staff report for through the chair no no formal", "start": 13586.359, "end": 13592.279}, {"text": "presentation from staff on this I will just highlight uh so the staff recommendation is to remove this", "start": 13592.279, "end": 13597.319}, {"text": "property from the register obviously another unfortunate series of events in terms of getting to this point uh as", "start": 13597.319, "end": 13603.439}, {"text": "this was a property we were hoping and was planned to be integrated into a Redevelopment of a larger site um", "start": 13603.439, "end": 13610.04}, {"text": "however it was in the process of being demolished just yesterday and it's probably finishing up today and this is", "start": 13610.04, "end": 13615.199}, {"text": "an administrative step to uh remove from the register thank you this one really hurts", "start": 13615.199, "end": 13622.399}, {"text": "me because this is a building that I researched along with Janice Brown to try to get designated and through being", "start": 13622.399, "end": 13631.12}, {"text": "empty and cold and two fires", "start": 13631.12, "end": 13636.68}, {"text": "and apparently structurally unsafe even though it took a lot of effort for that machine to knock it down yesterday so I", "start": 13636.68, "end": 13644.159}, {"text": "don't know how unsafe it really was but anyway do anyone have any more", "start": 13644.159, "end": 13650.159}, {"text": "questions so uh move in a second I already had that right okay anyone to", "start": 13650.159, "end": 13658.92}, {"text": "post see none it carries", "start": 13659.479, "end": 13665}, {"text": "thank you Graham um we're now on to our item 13.1 which is our buildings and Landscapes um does anyone have any", "start": 13665, "end": 13671.239}, {"text": "properties that they would like to add or remove from the list today grm yeah I", "start": 13671.239, "end": 13677.479}, {"text": "like they remove 537 King Street", "start": 13677.479, "end": 13681.198}, {"text": "East okay um are there any other properties oh go ahead ala sorry through", "start": 13683.72, "end": 13690}, {"text": "the chair just on that item Graham um might I suggest instead of entirely entire removing it it be moved to Black", "start": 13690, "end": 13696.76}, {"text": "because as the staff report indicates uh there are items that have been salvaged and that will continue to be salvaged as", "start": 13696.76, "end": 13702.479}, {"text": "a part of the final demolition that we hope to be reintegrated into new development so there might be some", "start": 13702.479, "end": 13707.68}, {"text": "ongoing monitoring that this committee might want to have as a part of that process is there any control of where", "start": 13707.68, "end": 13714.479}, {"text": "those pieces and parts are through the chair um the owner is", "start": 13714.479, "end": 13721.12}, {"text": "working actively with staff on that uh technically for listed property there is no mechanism or heree permit requirement", "start": 13721.12, "end": 13728}, {"text": "in terms of tracking that however uh they do have a conditional site plan and as a part of Redevelopment staff will be", "start": 13728, "end": 13734}, {"text": "requiring conditions to ensure that those features are integrated yeah well see I'm the person", "start": 13734, "end": 13739.76}, {"text": "monitoring that I don't know how to find the stuff how to track it to make sure", "start": 13739.76, "end": 13744.8}, {"text": "it's there I just kind of wondering what's the point of having on the list if you get physically find it or look", "start": 13744.8, "end": 13751.8}, {"text": "at fair enough that makes sense gra no no worries okay", "start": 13751.8, "end": 13757.12}, {"text": "by okay so gr are you happy to move it to Black instead of red off the list", "start": 13757.68, "end": 13763.04}, {"text": "right okay okay all right so we have a motion so grams before do we have a", "start": 13763.04, "end": 13768.319}, {"text": "seconder for that so", "start": 13768.319, "end": 13773.8}, {"text": "Andy I see Andy okay and as we move to vote is there anyone opposed to removing", "start": 13773.8, "end": 13778.84}, {"text": "that property seeing none that item is carried do we have any property updates on our list", "start": 13778.84, "end": 13785.56}, {"text": "Graham uh and then any other any other speakers for updates no so go ahead", "start": 13785.56, "end": 13791.359}, {"text": "Graham okay uh again back to St GS and uh Main Street", "start": 13791.359, "end": 13798.56}, {"text": "East there's been a a huge amount of debris built up between the church and", "start": 13798.56, "end": 13806.319}, {"text": "the fence that is endangering the church now if it catches fire it's just a a", "start": 13806.319, "end": 13813.319}, {"text": "massive file i s the picture on yesterday to Alysa uh it looks like the tents have", "start": 13813.319, "end": 13818.359}, {"text": "collapsed that are there except for one so it was inhabited by three sets of", "start": 13818.359, "end": 13825.359}, {"text": "tents property owner is having no luck getting the people off it does not look", "start": 13825.359, "end": 13831.08}, {"text": "like the police are able to do anything with those poot enforcement's unable to", "start": 13831.08, "end": 13836.359}, {"text": "do anything uh I'm not really heard back from councelor anan's office but trying", "start": 13836.359, "end": 13841.96}, {"text": "to get this site cleaned up so we no longer endanger the", "start": 13841.96, "end": 13847}, {"text": "church and that beautiful Second Empire apartment building over on Proctor which", "start": 13847, "end": 13853.439}, {"text": "has a wooden deck 10 ft away from here and in the parking lot of the church", "start": 13853.439, "end": 13860.6}, {"text": "someone's placed a box from a cube van very close to the building where now going to hamper any kind of fire", "start": 13860.6, "end": 13867.399}, {"text": "department response so it's really a dangerous situation someone's got to get in there and clean that up that's", "start": 13867.399, "end": 13874.159}, {"text": "getting on a joke is really getting bad go ahead Alysa through the chair sta", "start": 13874.159, "end": 13881.88}, {"text": "just want to thank uh thank Graham for his continued diligence on that and I as I understand it you've been uh directly", "start": 13881.88, "end": 13889.56}, {"text": "reaching out to the the folks who represent the the property owner and", "start": 13889.56, "end": 13894.72}, {"text": "they've been generally taking action and you've also been including I Believe Miss law enforcement on your emails um", "start": 13894.72, "end": 13901.159}, {"text": "and I think the primary concern was related to debris but you just also mentioned intense so I just want to make sure and maybe as a note to uh other", "start": 13901.159, "end": 13908.199}, {"text": "members if there are active uh concerns that you've raised that are related to encampments to make sure that you also", "start": 13908.199, "end": 13914.319}, {"text": "copy the unsheltered email when you're doing", "start": 13914.319, "end": 13918.359}, {"text": "that uh thank you Graham for that update um are there any other property updates that anyone has before we move on um so", "start": 13920.8, "end": 13928.439}, {"text": "may I have a motion to receive the updates do we have a mve in a second I", "start": 13928.439, "end": 13934.319}, {"text": "see Andy and Graham as we move to vote is there anyone opposed seeing none that item is carried", "start": 13934.319, "end": 13940.52}, {"text": "are there any updates from staff through the chair I forgot to", "start": 13940.52, "end": 13945.96}, {"text": "mention in my year in review but uh I wanted to highlight that uh our own Scott Dickinson here recently was", "start": 13945.96, "end": 13951.72}, {"text": "successful in uh shifting into a cultural heritage planner position with our team so previously was in a planning", "start": 13951.72, "end": 13957.439}, {"text": "Tech and is now on a contract as a culture Parish planner that's exciting news congratulations Scott", "start": 13957.439, "end": 13965.438}, {"text": "uh are there any other updates is there any other new business one question sure", "start": 13966.96, "end": 13974.439}, {"text": "go last meeting we talked about possibly having these reports onto the agenda did", "start": 13974.439, "end": 13980.199}, {"text": "you get any or the meeting minutes do you have any luck with that yeah through the chair of so committee can raise", "start": 13980.199, "end": 13985.76}, {"text": "things in the minutes by moving a motion um so you could move a motion for example to like flag for um planning May", "start": 13985.76, "end": 13994.88}, {"text": "the concerns that you have related to specific properties so that's one one way that you can go about getting a more", "start": 13994.88, "end": 14001.279}, {"text": "detailed note on the", "start": 14001.279, "end": 14004.601}, {"text": "minutes thank you Matt um so before we head out in adjourn today I just want to wish everybody a very happy holidays and", "start": 14010.199, "end": 14016.96}, {"text": "a Merry Christmas um it's I know it's been a long year we've done a lot of work as we could see from today's report", "start": 14016.96, "end": 14022.68}, {"text": "and and the meeting agenda today um but I just want to hope everyone has a very good holidays and we'll be back again in", "start": 14022.68, "end": 14028.04}, {"text": "January all right I may I have a mover and a seconder to adjourn today's", "start": 14028.04, "end": 14033.199}, {"text": "meeting I see Andy and Andrew is there anybody opposed seeing none that item is carried", "start": 14033.199, "end": 14040}, {"text": "and our next meeting is going to be on January 24th at noon thank you everyone take care", "start": 14040, "end": 14047.601}]