[{"text": "e", "start": 28.96, "end": 31.96}, {"text": "e", "start": 58.92, "end": 61.92}, {"text": "e", "start": 88.92, "end": 91.92}, {"text": "e", "start": 118.84, "end": 121.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 148.84, "end": 151.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 178.84, "end": 181.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 208.76, "end": 211.76}, {"text": "e", "start": 238.72, "end": 241.72}, {"text": "e", "start": 268.72, "end": 271.72}, {"text": "e", "start": 298.639, "end": 301.639}, {"text": "e", "start": 328.639, "end": 331.639}, {"text": "e", "start": 358.639, "end": 361.639}, {"text": "e", "start": 388.56, "end": 391.56}, {"text": "e", "start": 418.52, "end": 421.52}, {"text": "e", "start": 448.52, "end": 451.52}, {"text": "e", "start": 478.44, "end": 481.44}, {"text": "e", "start": 508.44, "end": 511.44}, {"text": "e", "start": 538.44, "end": 541.44}, {"text": "e", "start": 568.36, "end": 571.36}, {"text": "e", "start": 598.32, "end": 601.32}, {"text": "e", "start": 628.32, "end": 631.32}, {"text": "e", "start": 658.24, "end": 661.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 688.24, "end": 691.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 718.24, "end": 721.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 748.16, "end": 751.16}, {"text": "e", "start": 778.12, "end": 781.12}, {"text": "e", "start": 808.12, "end": 811.12}, {"text": "e", "start": 838.04, "end": 841.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 868.04, "end": 871.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 898.04, "end": 901.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 927.959, "end": 930.959}, {"text": "e", "start": 957.92, "end": 960.92}, {"text": "e", "start": 987.92, "end": 990.92}, {"text": "e", "start": 1017.839, "end": 1020.839}, {"text": "e", "start": 1047.84, "end": 1050.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 1077.84, "end": 1080.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 1107.76, "end": 1110.76}, {"text": "e", "start": 1137.72, "end": 1140.72}, {"text": "e", "start": 1167.72, "end": 1170.72}, {"text": "e", "start": 1197.64, "end": 1200.64}, {"text": "e", "start": 1227.64, "end": 1230.64}, {"text": "e", "start": 1257.6, "end": 1260.6}, {"text": "e", "start": 1287.52, "end": 1290.52}, {"text": "e", "start": 1317.52, "end": 1320.52}, {"text": "e", "start": 1347.52, "end": 1350.52}, {"text": "e", "start": 1377.44, "end": 1380.44}, {"text": "e", "start": 1407.44, "end": 1410.44}, {"text": "e", "start": 1437.44, "end": 1440.44}, {"text": "e", "start": 1467.36, "end": 1470.36}, {"text": "e", "start": 1497.32, "end": 1500.32}, {"text": "e", "start": 1527.32, "end": 1530.32}, {"text": "e", "start": 1557.24, "end": 1560.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 1587.24, "end": 1590.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 1617.24, "end": 1620.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 1647.159, "end": 1650.159}, {"text": "e", "start": 1677.12, "end": 1680.12}, {"text": "e", "start": 1707.12, "end": 1710.12}, {"text": "e", "start": 1737.039, "end": 1740.039}, {"text": "e", "start": 1767.039, "end": 1770.039}, {"text": "e", "start": 1797.039, "end": 1800.039}, {"text": "e", "start": 1826.96, "end": 1829.96}, {"text": "e", "start": 1856.919, "end": 1859.919}, {"text": "e", "start": 1886.919, "end": 1889.919}, {"text": "e", "start": 1916.84, "end": 1919.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 1946.84, "end": 1949.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 1976.84, "end": 1979.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 2006.76, "end": 2009.76}, {"text": "e", "start": 2036.72, "end": 2039.72}, {"text": "e", "start": 2066.72, "end": 2069.72}, {"text": "e", "start": 2096.64, "end": 2099.64}, {"text": "e", "start": 2126.64, "end": 2129.64}, {"text": "e", "start": 2156.64, "end": 2159.64}, {"text": "e", "start": 2186.56, "end": 2189.56}, {"text": "e", "start": 2216.52, "end": 2219.52}, {"text": "e", "start": 2246.52, "end": 2249.52}, {"text": "e", "start": 2276.44, "end": 2279.44}, {"text": "e", "start": 2306.44, "end": 2309.44}, {"text": "e", "start": 2336.44, "end": 2339.44}, {"text": "e", "start": 2366.359, "end": 2369.359}, {"text": "e", "start": 2396.319, "end": 2399.319}, {"text": "e", "start": 2426.319, "end": 2429.319}, {"text": "e", "start": 2456.24, "end": 2459.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 2486.24, "end": 2489.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 2516.24, "end": 2519.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 2546.119, "end": 2549.119}, {"text": "e", "start": 2576.119, "end": 2579.119}, {"text": "e", "start": 2606.119, "end": 2609.119}, {"text": "e e", "start": 2636.04, "end": 2640.079}, {"text": "GAC ch one check", "start": 2696.28, "end": 2699.4}, {"text": "one", "start": 2725.96, "end": 2728.96}, {"text": "e", "start": 2755.92, "end": 2758.92}, {"text": "e", "start": 2785.92, "end": 2788.92}, {"text": "e", "start": 2815.839, "end": 2818.839}, {"text": "e", "start": 2845.839, "end": 2848.839}, {"text": "e", "start": 2875.839, "end": 2878.839}, {"text": "e", "start": 2905.76, "end": 2908.76}, {"text": "e", "start": 2935.72, "end": 2938.72}, {"text": "e", "start": 2965.72, "end": 2968.72}, {"text": "e", "start": 2995.64, "end": 2998.64}, {"text": "e", "start": 3025.64, "end": 3028.64}, {"text": "e", "start": 3055.64, "end": 3058.64}, {"text": "e", "start": 3085.559, "end": 3088.559}, {"text": "e e", "start": 3115.52, "end": 3119.559}, {"text": "pit patter let's get at her good", "start": 3153.28, "end": 3159.88}, {"text": "morning welcome to the general issues committee meeting of January 15", "start": 3159.88, "end": 3165.319}, {"text": "2025 as we have Quorum present for today's meeting I'd like to call this meeting to order today in Chambers we", "start": 3165.319, "end": 3173}, {"text": "have councelor mcmein councelor spora councelor son councelor Jackson", "start": 3173, "end": 3178.24}, {"text": "councelor casar councelor Francis councelor Wayne councelor Bey councelor cret councelor Clark nice to see you and", "start": 3178.24, "end": 3185.96}, {"text": "councelor Wilson um on screen councelor Paul's is here I", "start": 3185.96, "end": 3192.48}, {"text": "just like to say that counselor Nan is absent due to a tragic death in her extended family our sympathies and", "start": 3192.48, "end": 3199.559}, {"text": "condolences go at to her family at this sad time moving forward a reminder that all", "start": 3199.559, "end": 3207.119}, {"text": "electronic devices are to be switched to a non-audible function during committee", "start": 3207.119, "end": 3213.64}, {"text": "meetings we're turning now to item three approval of the agenda Madam clerk can you advise of items included in the", "start": 3213.64, "end": 3221.28}, {"text": "addendum yes Deputy Mayor there are four added delegations and four added pieces of Correspondence for item 9.2 two added", "start": 3221.28, "end": 3227.839}, {"text": "delegations for item 7.4 two added notices of motion motion 9.2 has been revised there is one added item for", "start": 3227.839, "end": 3235.16}, {"text": "consideration and the items listed as to be distributed have now been added thank you may I please have a", "start": 3235.16, "end": 3242.4}, {"text": "mover and a seconder to approve the agenda presented councelor Bey councelor RM is there any discussion on the", "start": 3242.4, "end": 3250.799}, {"text": "agenda we're going to do a show of hands for this vote so all in", "start": 3250.799, "end": 3257.799}, {"text": "favor just following the new protocols that vote was", "start": 3257.799, "end": 3263.799}, {"text": "carried declar of Interest are there any Declarations of", "start": 3264.88, "end": 3271.079}, {"text": "interest uh thank you I was just reminded by the clerk um I spoke with the Integrity commissioner I had", "start": 3276.119, "end": 3283.559}, {"text": "referred Wade bosc to a local community group in W 9 that's having a rather", "start": 3283.559, "end": 3289.96}, {"text": "significant environmental battle um and because of that referral I was ADV to", "start": 3289.96, "end": 3296.96}, {"text": "declare a non-disqualifying conflict of interest on anything to do", "start": 3296.96, "end": 3302.319}, {"text": "with the encampment program thank you so because of that please ensure", "start": 3302.319, "end": 3309.839}, {"text": "that when it is time to vote on the matter that you'll abstain and your disqualifying interest will be noted", "start": 3309.839, "end": 3315.599}, {"text": "correctly in the m is that correct it's non-disqualifying so I will not be AB I read the wrong one um if you have a", "start": 3315.599, "end": 3322.24}, {"text": "non-qualifying interest will participate impartially in the decision-making process related to the matter thank", "start": 3322.24, "end": 3328.4}, {"text": "you okay we're looking for an approval of the minutes previous minutes from December", "start": 3328.4, "end": 3333.799}, {"text": "5th excuse me carry on um yeah just because councelor Clark said that I", "start": 3333.799, "end": 3339}, {"text": "thought it also would say I also reached out to the Integrity commissioner on the same subject and he said I didn't have a", "start": 3339, "end": 3344.359}, {"text": "disqualifying or non-disqualifying interest so thought I would just say so um since there's been some attention on the subject lately and since councelor", "start": 3344.359, "end": 3350.799}, {"text": "Clark had done the same thing but I have that advice I don't have a declaration to make but thought I would let people know thanks", "start": 3350.799, "end": 3356.96}, {"text": "okay thank you very much we'll go to item five now approval of the minutes of the previous meeting December 5th 2024", "start": 3356.96, "end": 3364.28}, {"text": "may I have a mover in seconder to adopt the previous minutes councelor mcmein councelor", "start": 3364.28, "end": 3369.96}, {"text": "spora all in favor by sh hands thank you that vote was", "start": 3369.96, "end": 3378.76}, {"text": "carried we're going now to delegations before we begin our delegations for today's members for today members are", "start": 3379.079, "end": 3385.599}, {"text": "reminded that questions of the delegations are for clarification purposes only not for debate a note to", "start": 3385.599, "end": 3392.599}, {"text": "our delegates you have 5 minutes to complete your delegation you will hear a tone after four minutes and then you'll", "start": 3392.599, "end": 3398.68}, {"text": "have an additional minute to finish", "start": 3398.68, "end": 3402.64}, {"text": "up so we're going to item 6.1 delegations respecting the report on", "start": 3406, "end": 3411.2}, {"text": "potential alternative Municipal revenue streams from the following individuals", "start": 3411.2, "end": 3417.96}, {"text": "a note to committee before we have the first person come down we will take one vote at the end to receive all", "start": 3419.4, "end": 3425.44}, {"text": "delegations on this matter so our first delegate is Eddie", "start": 3425.44, "end": 3432.2}, {"text": "sheeper from Abacus data in person", "start": 3432.2, "end": 3438.52}, {"text": "welcome Eddie thank you for having me you may begin thank you uh thank you everyone for coming today and for uh for", "start": 3451.839, "end": 3457.76}, {"text": "Council for having me on behalf of Abacus data uh I am here to present the public opinion survey looking at", "start": 3457.76, "end": 3463.799}, {"text": "sentiment around housing in the region as well as perceptions of the municipal land transfer", "start": 3463.799, "end": 3469.319}, {"text": "tax the survey was commissioned by the Cornerstone Association of Realtors it was conducted with 500 residents of the", "start": 3469.319, "end": 3476.68}, {"text": "Hamilton area um and Falls within the indust industry standards right for margin of error which essentially means", "start": 3476.68, "end": 3482.52}, {"text": "the data is reliable valid and it comes from a representative sample across age gender and region the survey was fielded", "start": 3482.52, "end": 3489.599}, {"text": "in October of last year and the results really paint a picture of the current housing situation in the city as well as", "start": 3489.599, "end": 3497.359}, {"text": "challenges and perceptions around the municipal land transfer tax so to", "start": 3497.359, "end": 3502.64}, {"text": "begin as of right now 2third of residents feel feel that the city of Hamilton is headed off on the wrong", "start": 3502.64, "end": 3508.96}, {"text": "track with only 10% of residents feeling it's going in the right direction and", "start": 3508.96, "end": 3514.039}, {"text": "there are really two primary factors that lend into this the top two issues facing residents", "start": 3514.039, "end": 3521.039}, {"text": "in the city today is the cost of living as well as housing affordability and accessibility with 62% of residents", "start": 3521.039, "end": 3527.72}, {"text": "noting housing as a major challenge that is pressing the city today just for comparison the national average is 42%", "start": 3527.72, "end": 3534.68}, {"text": "for housing accessibility being a challenge so this really shows the elevated concern and challenges that hamiltonians are facing", "start": 3534.68, "end": 3542.16}, {"text": "today and this is not something that's just facing those who are currently struggling with housing this cuts across", "start": 3542.16, "end": 3547.359}, {"text": "all demographics you see that 84% of residents feel that housing in the city", "start": 3547.359, "end": 3554.2}, {"text": "is just simply not affordable today and 89% are concerned about the current cost", "start": 3554.2, "end": 3559.559}, {"text": "of housing in this city as well that's a significant proportion of people and it varies s it is consistent across all", "start": 3559.559, "end": 3565.68}, {"text": "ages genders regions across the board and looking at what to consider", "start": 3565.68, "end": 3571.88}, {"text": "people point to taxes and fees on home purchases being the top thing that is", "start": 3571.88, "end": 3577.079}, {"text": "most important to consider with respect to housing affordability and accessibility in the city", "start": 3577.079, "end": 3583.48}, {"text": "today and when you approach the topic of the municipal land transfer tax it creates a potential disconnect between", "start": 3585.079, "end": 3591.079}, {"text": "both government action and public sentiment when we present residents with the idea", "start": 3591.079, "end": 3597}, {"text": "54% stand in opposition to the implementation of a municipal land transfer tax with only 10% of residents", "start": 3597, "end": 3604.079}, {"text": "supporting this element and the primary reasons are that two-thirds of people believe that it", "start": 3604.079, "end": 3610.599}, {"text": "will simply hinder their ability to purchase a home now this reflects only those who indicated they intend to purchase a home in the future so 2third", "start": 3610.599, "end": 3618.52}, {"text": "of those who want to purchase believe that this will actually push them out of the market and people think it will", "start": 3618.52, "end": 3625.039}, {"text": "disproportionately impact certain groups of individuals firsttime buyers is one but also low-income individuals and", "start": 3625.039, "end": 3630.76}, {"text": "families as well as renters because costs will be pushed down when housing goes up and they will have to make up", "start": 3630.76, "end": 3635.96}, {"text": "those costs somehow and 74% of people think it will", "start": 3635.96, "end": 3642.28}, {"text": "just simply harm affordability in the city and that's starting off with the fact that nine and 10 think that is", "start": 3642.28, "end": 3648.039}, {"text": "currently very hard to find housing in the city with three quarters thinking it will only become worse by the", "start": 3648.039, "end": 3653.52}, {"text": "implementation of a municipal land transfer tax", "start": 3653.52, "end": 3657.92}, {"text": "and it's important to understand the political vulnerabilities with respect to this decision as of right now over seven and", "start": 3659.559, "end": 3666.64}, {"text": "10 people think that all levels of government are not doing enough to address the housing crisis today so it's", "start": 3666.64, "end": 3673.079}, {"text": "starting from a point at which people simply think there isn't enough being done to improve affordability or", "start": 3673.079, "end": 3678.52}, {"text": "accessibility within the city and if the municipal land transfer", "start": 3678.52, "end": 3685}, {"text": "attacks were to be imp implemented it would harm perceptions of both the mayor and council with 50% of people thinking", "start": 3685, "end": 3691.76}, {"text": "that it will worsen the perception of the mayor and 57% saying it will impact their perception of", "start": 3691.76, "end": 3699.28}, {"text": "council and going farther 56% say it will worsen their impression of Premier", "start": 3699.28, "end": 3705.52}, {"text": "Ford and I think what this points to is the political vulnerabilities of implementing such a measure at a time in", "start": 3705.52, "end": 3712.119}, {"text": "which housing is the number one concern for residents at a time in they're looking for tangible solutions to", "start": 3712.119, "end": 3719.079}, {"text": "increase housing Supply and also address affordability concerns among", "start": 3719.079, "end": 3724.92}, {"text": "residents and it also presents to a degree an opportunity to find ways to", "start": 3724.92, "end": 3731.64}, {"text": "help improve both accessibility and affordability and implementing an", "start": 3731.64, "end": 3736.68}, {"text": "additional tax in an area in which there's already increased concerns around the cost and", "start": 3736.68, "end": 3743.2}, {"text": "the entry point of housing will be a significant inhibitor to Residents and it can harm their perceptions moving", "start": 3743.2, "end": 3749.52}, {"text": "forward when you think of the upcoming elections both at the provincial level and the municipal level and that people generally are currently shaping their", "start": 3749.52, "end": 3756.44}, {"text": "perceptions of government around the major issues facing them today and in this city it is housing accessibility", "start": 3756.44, "end": 3763.119}, {"text": "and affordability perfect thank you Eddie you uh we do", "start": 3763.119, "end": 3768.76}, {"text": "have the speakers list so if you'll stay there and answer questions thank you uh councelor Wang is first uh sorry Deputy", "start": 3768.76, "end": 3775.48}, {"text": "Mayor but but was that the 4 minute Mark does um the delegate have an extra minute that was that was it sorry that", "start": 3775.48, "end": 3782.16}, {"text": "was my last word too so we I see okay um thank you very much for this data and", "start": 3782.16, "end": 3787.72}, {"text": "thank you for coming in and presenting this I'm on one hand could you is this", "start": 3787.72, "end": 3792.88}, {"text": "something you could share with clerks so that we as the rest of council can uh take a closer look at some of the data", "start": 3792.88, "end": 3799.16}, {"text": "that you've just provided absolutely yeah and I believe the data is publicly released as well on the cornerstone website and through social so absolutely", "start": 3799.16, "end": 3806.119}, {"text": "you can share this yeah wonderful thank you through you Deputy Mayor just the question then is um when was this survey", "start": 3806.119, "end": 3812.68}, {"text": "done um 500 is an excellent uh number of respondents just wanted to get a time a", "start": 3812.68, "end": 3818.76}, {"text": "sense of time when was it done so it was done uh October 17th to the 24th I believe are the exact dates uh so it was", "start": 3818.76, "end": 3825.64}, {"text": "done there it is 28th sorry so the end of October last year okay great um my", "start": 3825.64, "end": 3833.24}, {"text": "next set of questions is that um we've been hearing from other municipalities", "start": 3833.24, "end": 3839.039}, {"text": "in particular the mayor of Aurora has been pushing out a private members um", "start": 3839.039, "end": 3844.599}, {"text": "sort of motion to all councils asking for their Collective staffs to also", "start": 3844.599, "end": 3850.039}, {"text": "explore the idea of a land transfer so I wonder in this sort of data set um have", "start": 3850.039, "end": 3856.76}, {"text": "you also started to see the collective landscape across other associations or other municipalities that may also be", "start": 3856.76, "end": 3864.24}, {"text": "exploring this as a as an option so as of right now uh to my in terms of the", "start": 3864.24, "end": 3870.24}, {"text": "advocus side we are not actively exploring this across other municipalities um when we look at the the national scope and the provincial", "start": 3870.24, "end": 3876.68}, {"text": "scope because we do work with associations both nationally and provincially um the number one resistance among Canadians and it", "start": 3876.68, "end": 3883.359}, {"text": "reflects the results here is that it is increase taxes around housing um development charges taxation Municipal", "start": 3883.359, "end": 3890.039}, {"text": "charges all those different elements are a concern to to Residents and they're starting to better understand the cost", "start": 3890.039, "end": 3895.88}, {"text": "that are passed down to them in housing uh because it's obviously a much more um publicized Topic in the last one and a", "start": 3895.88, "end": 3901.839}, {"text": "half to two years so we have not explored this explicitly but we do see that people are resistant to taxation", "start": 3901.839, "end": 3907.88}, {"text": "around housing that that will further impact costs that's fair thank you for that um just to further clarify there", "start": 3907.88, "end": 3916.079}, {"text": "are almost 80 municipalities that have signed on to this private member motion", "start": 3916.079, "end": 3921.24}, {"text": "to be endorsed by 80 councils so this is a a this is a widespread sort of idea", "start": 3921.24, "end": 3930.16}, {"text": "that is now gaining traction across other councils and other municipalities and just as a thought", "start": 3930.16, "end": 3938.16}, {"text": "process then perhaps you could share with us what are some of the feedback in terms of I know you had already talked", "start": 3938.16, "end": 3945.319}, {"text": "about cost and affordability at the transaction level but I hope you can", "start": 3945.319, "end": 3950.76}, {"text": "share with us what are the other sort of challenges that families", "start": 3950.76, "end": 3956.359}, {"text": "think or families are expressing um in terms of", "start": 3956.359, "end": 3962.48}, {"text": "affordability uh oh my slides are gone I was going to show you that that I apologize um so right now when we look", "start": 3962.48, "end": 3968.359}, {"text": "at affordability it's you know as the main slides show it was cost of living and housing are the top two and and to a degree they go hand inand um I think", "start": 3968.359, "end": 3975.319}, {"text": "there's significant concerns in the coming year with uh there's a a massive renewal of mortgages this year so people", "start": 3975.319, "end": 3982}, {"text": "are very cent of the fact that um the interest rates they they locked that during the co era uh are now not going", "start": 3982, "end": 3988.799}, {"text": "to be those interest rates so there's concern around that um there was a release uh a report released this week", "start": 3988.799, "end": 3993.96}, {"text": "that half of Canadians are $200 away from kind of going overedge um so it", "start": 3993.96, "end": 3999.24}, {"text": "just shows that people are are financially challenged uh we did a report last year that looked at what", "start": 3999.24, "end": 4004.52}, {"text": "people are cutting back on um and people are uh bypassing food and and groceries", "start": 4004.52, "end": 4009.68}, {"text": "to be able to pay their their mortgage and rent uh we see right now that that two and five Canadians are worried about", "start": 4009.68, "end": 4014.72}, {"text": "losing their home if their financial situation were to change at all because they the majority of people are are on edge so the the daily cost of living is", "start": 4014.72, "end": 4022.16}, {"text": "impacting people and it's costing them it's forcing them to make decisions and trade-offs in terms of do I pay my", "start": 4022.16, "end": 4028.279}, {"text": "mortgage or rent or can I buy groceries this week or or things like that so it's the the daily toll on individuals is", "start": 4028.279, "end": 4035.16}, {"text": "significant right now um and housing being the largest purchase that you will ever make um that is very much top of", "start": 4035.16, "end": 4041.96}, {"text": "mind for a lot of individuals and you know the fact that 9 and 10 resents think that", "start": 4041.96, "end": 4048.359}, {"text": "it's um", "start": 4048.359, "end": 4052.318}, {"text": "unaffordable", "start": 4074.44, "end": 4077.44}, {"text": "e", "start": 4104.44, "end": 4107.44}, {"text": "e e", "start": 4134.44, "end": 4138.44}, {"text": "I just have one or two quick questions um I believe the", "start": 4194, "end": 4200.4}, {"text": "delegate was a hired agent of Cornerstone they commissioned us to", "start": 4200.4, "end": 4205.64}, {"text": "conduct a survey yes so can I get an understanding who Cornerstone is is this", "start": 4205.64, "end": 4211.08}, {"text": "a subset of the realtors association so it's the Cornerstone Association of", "start": 4211.08, "end": 4216.32}, {"text": "Realtors so it's a it's distinct from the Realtor", "start": 4216.32, "end": 4221.679}, {"text": "Association no no it is not sorry I'm so it's it is the Realtor", "start": 4221.679, "end": 4229.64}, {"text": "Association under this name correct yes okay just trying to understand who's", "start": 4229.64, "end": 4235.159}, {"text": "doing what thank you very much thank you councelor clerk councelor", "start": 4235.159, "end": 4242.36}, {"text": "mcmein thanks very much I'm a bit thanks for being here by the way and I'm fan of", "start": 4242.64, "end": 4247.96}, {"text": "good honest research so I'm my questions will be about your research thank you it's so uh did in your question did um", "start": 4247.96, "end": 4257.04}, {"text": "did you delineate between firsttime home buyers and home owners y so in terms of the the", "start": 4257.04, "end": 4264.36}, {"text": "demographic splits we looked at uh age first-time buyers perspective buyers uh", "start": 4264.36, "end": 4269.719}, {"text": "region income all those various aspects there was very little variability across responses um and I think when you look", "start": 4269.719, "end": 4276.199}, {"text": "at the elevated concerns around 84% and 89% there's not much room for for people", "start": 4276.199, "end": 4281.8}, {"text": "to kind of have a bearing opinion because it's it's so skewed to the top end so we did look at firsttime virus versus not um but people think it will", "start": 4281.8, "end": 4289.04}, {"text": "it will just simply impact all individuals and people on the younger side they do feel that they will feel", "start": 4289.04, "end": 4294.44}, {"text": "the brunt of this more because they're having a difficult time getting into the market but um there were no differences", "start": 4294.44, "end": 4300.199}, {"text": "across okay um thank you um you mentioned uh and through you you Deputy", "start": 4300.199, "end": 4305.6}, {"text": "Mayor you mentioned U um development fees property taxes", "start": 4305.6, "end": 4311.239}, {"text": "other other uh um depending on your perspec persective incumbrances on", "start": 4311.239, "end": 4316.719}, {"text": "income basic income for people um to what extent uh did you delineate or", "start": 4316.719, "end": 4324}, {"text": "attempt to delineate U the opposition to a particular but taxes in general with", "start": 4324, "end": 4331.44}, {"text": "uh uh how does that correlate to as to other taxes now I'm in the", "start": 4331.44, "end": 4337.88}, {"text": "trenches every day I hear every day for my constituents that they don't like a 6.9 or a 9.2 or a 7.4% increase y uh", "start": 4337.88, "end": 4348.76}, {"text": "that it's not a progressive tax and uh we need to find more creative entrepreneurial ways to find Revenue so", "start": 4348.76, "end": 4355.6}, {"text": "did you delineate uh to what extent does that opposition to uh", "start": 4355.6, "end": 4361.32}, {"text": "taxes I'm opposed to taxes yeah I don't mind paying taxes but I sure as Howell want to get value for the money I pay", "start": 4361.32, "end": 4368}, {"text": "absolutely so did youate that we do not in this current study no when you look at the top issues though taxation Falls", "start": 4368, "end": 4374.6}, {"text": "I believe it was in the list in terms of top issues facing residents so is not uh a pressing concern it is a concern but", "start": 4374.6, "end": 4381.56}, {"text": "it's not one of the top issues facing residents today so you know when you look at that and then combine that with", "start": 4381.56, "end": 4387.04}, {"text": "the fact that housing is number one I think people perceive that as the fact that the number one thing that is challenging them today by further", "start": 4387.04, "end": 4393.88}, {"text": "complicating that issue and exacerbating the cost of living and and Supply challenges that's their largest opposition so we did not delineate", "start": 4393.88, "end": 4400.56}, {"text": "between those opposed to taxes in general but that's where we were okay so through you Mr Deputy Mayor to to the", "start": 4400.56, "end": 4407.8}, {"text": "presenter um I wonder if you ask similar questions", "start": 4407.8, "end": 4414}, {"text": "about development charges or property taxes in general you if you would if the", "start": 4414, "end": 4419.679}, {"text": "results would be screwed off to your 50% Plus in terms of having concern about", "start": 4419.679, "end": 4425.199}, {"text": "taxes development charges parking fees uh tax on Tobacco", "start": 4425.199, "end": 4431.56}, {"text": "whatever it is you know can can you comment on on on that from a a research", "start": 4431.56, "end": 4437.719}, {"text": "perspective I think the the difference between the things you spoke to and housing and this was uh research we", "start": 4437.719, "end": 4445.04}, {"text": "released in December um is that the majority of canans View housing as a basic human right and when you look at", "start": 4445.04, "end": 4451.08}, {"text": "things like parking and alcohol and tobacco taxation you know those are those are different elements in that", "start": 4451.08, "end": 4456.8}, {"text": "people don't perceive those as being the basic human right and that everyone deserves a right to own a home and when you look at the housing side of things", "start": 4456.8, "end": 4463.239}, {"text": "that then very much changes the conversation and people view this as a way in which it will limit the ability", "start": 4463.239, "end": 4468.48}, {"text": "and limit the opportunity uh to do that and to achieve that basic human right um", "start": 4468.48, "end": 4474.92}, {"text": "so I I can't speak to perceptions on those other areas you spoke to because we didn't assess those um but the", "start": 4474.92, "end": 4481.44}, {"text": "fundamental belief is that everyone should own a home and that's the it's held by the majority of of Canadians and and ontarians so so you're you're", "start": 4481.44, "end": 4488.639}, {"text": "suggesting to us that that a basic human right is to own a home", "start": 4488.639, "end": 4495.12}, {"text": "not that's the perception that Canadians believe that everyone should have a chance to own a home and that's the the", "start": 4495.12, "end": 4500.56}, {"text": "mentality is my idea of a basic human right is if you can always something as a basic human right is not something you", "start": 4500.56, "end": 4506.52}, {"text": "can deny anybody so we're not doing very well on that front okay thanks thanks", "start": 4506.52, "end": 4511.6}, {"text": "very much those are my questions thank you councelor Rick we and I remind everybody that we're not", "start": 4511.6, "end": 4517.76}, {"text": "here to debate the delegates thank you um our next questions will come from", "start": 4517.76, "end": 4523.84}, {"text": "counselor Dano thank you uh chair", "start": 4523.84, "end": 4529.679}, {"text": "toison um my my first question in the question that was asked to is part of", "start": 4529.679, "end": 4535.08}, {"text": "the survey why was the question deliberately framed as a negative which question the question", "start": 4535.08, "end": 4541.8}, {"text": "that you asked to uh is part of the survey do you support a u a new tax on", "start": 4541.8, "end": 4548.199}, {"text": "uh land transfer tax that that's framed as a negative do you support a tax of course", "start": 4548.199, "end": 4553.76}, {"text": "no I I don't see the other ways to ask that question without well you could ask the question would you like a 12% tax", "start": 4553.76, "end": 4561.6}, {"text": "cut on your Municipal property taxes because the tax would bring a land transfer tax bringing $117 million a", "start": 4561.6, "end": 4568.96}, {"text": "year to the city of Hamilton which would translate to a 12% property tax cut so if you ask residents would you support a", "start": 4568.96, "end": 4576.08}, {"text": "12% property tax cut what answer would you get order please order", "start": 4576.08, "end": 4583.28}, {"text": "please order please we have a long day ahead of us so let's just listen to the questions and then we", "start": 4583.28, "end": 4589.96}, {"text": "will again listen to the answers from the delegate thank you thank you so your", "start": 4589.96, "end": 4597.84}, {"text": "question is in terms of if we framed it in a way that would you prefer a property tax reduction rather than in in", "start": 4597.84, "end": 4603.199}, {"text": "conjunction with what would the perception of Mayor Horath Premier Ford and this Council be if you sent out a", "start": 4603.199, "end": 4610.76}, {"text": "survey that said would you support a 12% mun ipal property tax cut in exchange", "start": 4610.76, "end": 4617.36}, {"text": "for a land transfer tax what do you think the answer would be I think that the residents would realize that there", "start": 4617.36, "end": 4622.719}, {"text": "have been other cases in which that hasn't been the case uh where there has been I guess Promises of of reducing the", "start": 4622.719, "end": 4629.12}, {"text": "property taxes in light of these things and in which the taxes only increased uh rather than doing that so I think in", "start": 4629.12, "end": 4636.159}, {"text": "that sense order thank you so I I think in", "start": 4636.159, "end": 4645.52}, {"text": "that light that residents would not believe that um because of the", "start": 4645.52, "end": 4650.8}, {"text": "other cases in which that's happened so let's use a an example then y the city", "start": 4650.8, "end": 4655.92}, {"text": "of Toronto has a land transfer tax has half the tax rate of the municipal of", "start": 4655.92, "end": 4661.44}, {"text": "other every other municipality in Ontario largely because of the land transfer tax and the revenue that", "start": 4661.44, "end": 4668.04}, {"text": "generates so as an example would you support half the property tax rate of", "start": 4668.04, "end": 4673.92}, {"text": "every other municipality Ontario what would the answer to that be we were actually speaking to that before we came in this morning and Toronto's actually", "start": 4673.92, "end": 4679.44}, {"text": "witnessed significant increases in property taxes over the last 3", "start": 4679.44, "end": 4684.719}, {"text": "years councelor Dano thank you I don't have any other questions okay thank you", "start": 4685.92, "end": 4691.88}, {"text": "councelor Dano and we're going to go to councelor Pauls who's on the screen", "start": 4691.88, "end": 4697.159}, {"text": "councelor Pauls you're up thank you and first of all I want to thank you for the survey um even before", "start": 4697.159, "end": 4705.08}, {"text": "the survey I knew I do have a question so I'm just pre ambling here uh I knew", "start": 4705.08, "end": 4711.92}, {"text": "that the land transfer tax would harm our city the reason is because of", "start": 4711.92, "end": 4717.719}, {"text": "housing we talk about housing we talk about homelessness and yet we want to", "start": 4717.719, "end": 4723.639}, {"text": "tax we want to tax people that are buying their first home or even trying", "start": 4723.639, "end": 4729.48}, {"text": "to buy a second home or whatever Pauls okay my question is this thank you um we", "start": 4729.48, "end": 4735.44}, {"text": "in your survey you said that firsttime buyers would be affected I want to ask", "start": 4735.44, "end": 4741.56}, {"text": "you a question I had a conversation with with a senior and they said they like to", "start": 4741.56, "end": 4747.639}, {"text": "downsize so they would sell their house but then they would have to buy another house that's smaller but they would have", "start": 4747.639, "end": 4753.88}, {"text": "to pay the land transfer tax on that it's that so so I told her I said you", "start": 4753.88, "end": 4759.32}, {"text": "won't pay it when you sell it but when you buy you have to pay so my question", "start": 4759.32, "end": 4764.76}, {"text": "question to you is is did you find that that is um what's happening that even", "start": 4764.76, "end": 4771}, {"text": "though they want a downside they're really not getting ahead so in this particular survey we", "start": 4771, "end": 4777.6}, {"text": "didn't survey the aspect of downsizing but in a recent study we did we do find that that seniors are delaying the", "start": 4777.6, "end": 4785.6}, {"text": "downsize decision because of the conditions of the market and the cost of housing and when you look at that it's", "start": 4785.6, "end": 4791.239}, {"text": "it's delaying the uh transition of of appropriate housing for younger individuals and low-income individuals", "start": 4791.239, "end": 4796.679}, {"text": "and families because seniors are are foregoing the decision to downsize because they simply can't afford to move", "start": 4796.679, "end": 4801.76}, {"text": "on from their current property and when you look at adding additional tax like this in it will only uh further harm", "start": 4801.76, "end": 4807.4}, {"text": "that perception that that seniors have with respect to downsizing and kind of finding suitable and available housing", "start": 4807.4, "end": 4812.719}, {"text": "for them so I do believe that uh it is a detriment to that population as well and which also then hinders the entire", "start": 4812.719, "end": 4819.239}, {"text": "housing market from that perspective and uh you know I heard some of the counselors say you know", "start": 4819.239, "end": 4825.159}, {"text": "80 other cities are looking into it well I want to tell you we have 444 cities", "start": 4825.159, "end": 4831.36}, {"text": "and I think uh uh you know if we did a survey I'm just wondering if you did a survey for all those cities what they", "start": 4831.36, "end": 4838.56}, {"text": "would think uh uh so right from the beginning I want to say clearly that", "start": 4838.56, "end": 4843.679}, {"text": "even without the survey I know that it's uh we cannot tax people to death and uh", "start": 4843.679, "end": 4850.48}, {"text": "we know we have the BAC question anyways uh that's my opinion and thank you and", "start": 4850.48, "end": 4855.719}, {"text": "thank you for the survey I'm sorry councelor Paul listen is there a question there for the", "start": 4855.719, "end": 4861.6}, {"text": "delegate I just said thank you for the survey but uh in my opinion we didn't even need a survey it's Common Sense", "start": 4861.6, "end": 4868.159}, {"text": "thank you thank you Council PA order thank you we have one more", "start": 4868.159, "end": 4876.88}, {"text": "counselor who ask questions and that's M Wilson thank you chair uh my comments", "start": 4876.88, "end": 4885}, {"text": "will actually be in the form of a question um if I may just so I'm clear", "start": 4885, "end": 4891.36}, {"text": "um to the delegate thank you for being here today you said in the 500 sample", "start": 4891.36, "end": 4896.76}, {"text": "that you had a representative sample of those who own and those who um do not", "start": 4896.76, "end": 4902.56}, {"text": "own it's representative across the region itself so based on age gender and area within the city so we didn't filter", "start": 4902.56, "end": 4909.199}, {"text": "based on those who own and don't own um we did explore those who intend to purchase a home okay do you know how", "start": 4909.199, "end": 4915.96}, {"text": "many in your survey sample own already own a home uh I do not know the results offand but it would be in the very last", "start": 4915.96, "end": 4921.88}, {"text": "slide of my presentation which I don't know it's actually existing anymore thank you the other question I have", "start": 4921.88, "end": 4927.36}, {"text": "through the chair is um could you just clarify for me how you defined for your", "start": 4927.36, "end": 4935.199}, {"text": "survey respondents the municipal land transfer tax absolutely yeah it's on the slide I can show you thank you does it", "start": 4935.199, "end": 4941.679}, {"text": "pop up it doesn't not pop up sorry let you tell me if I do this one here recite", "start": 4941.679, "end": 4947.239}, {"text": "it that's fine", "start": 4947.239, "end": 4952.36}, {"text": "sorry that it perfect", "start": 4956.56, "end": 4961.92}, {"text": "uh apologies no problem is that large enough to to read", "start": 4964, "end": 4973.56}, {"text": "so just for one it was a municipal land transfer tax is a fee that a buyer pays when they purchase a home or property", "start": 4976.08, "end": 4981.44}, {"text": "this tax is calculated based on the price of the property being bought right now there's a provincewide land transfer tax and Toronto is the only city with a", "start": 4981.44, "end": 4989.56}, {"text": "municipal land transfer tax thank you through the chair did you", "start": 4989.56, "end": 4994.8}, {"text": "um for the benefit of your respondents Define uh how the Toronto Municipal land", "start": 4994.8, "end": 5001.44}, {"text": "transfer tax is structured we did not we just focused on the degree to which it's based on the ca of the property rather", "start": 5001.44, "end": 5006.92}, {"text": "than how Toronto bases it so just for clarity you did not Define that there uh could be and is in the case of Toronto a", "start": 5006.92, "end": 5015.28}, {"text": "a rebate to exclude uh first-time home buyers and that it is teered according", "start": 5015.28, "end": 5020.88}, {"text": "to the assessed value of the property we did not express that but when you look at first-time buyers most will not", "start": 5020.88, "end": 5026.36}, {"text": "receive the full rebate and therefore it just continues to challenge that uh T", "start": 5026.36, "end": 5032.04}, {"text": "tax thank you and would you conceive that if a municipality was serious about", "start": 5032.04, "end": 5037.8}, {"text": "pursuing a municipal land transfer tax it would be within their prerogative to exclude first time home", "start": 5037.8, "end": 5045.239}, {"text": "buyers I believe that it would need to look at more than", "start": 5046.04, "end": 5051.199}, {"text": "just first-time buyers because there is many individuals that are faced with challenges with housing whether it be low-income middle class seniors uh", "start": 5051.199, "end": 5058.12}, {"text": "families and first-time buyers so it just purchasing a home is not exclusive to first-time buyers in the sense of", "start": 5058.12, "end": 5064.719}, {"text": "offering rebates and and things of that sort it does impact everyone and it it we also saw in the results it hurts", "start": 5064.719, "end": 5070.239}, {"text": "people from entering the market as well so we saw people believe it will hinder people's ability to enter Hamilton uh", "start": 5070.239, "end": 5076.44}, {"text": "and purchase home here so and that will trickle down to the rest of the city as well thank you you've answered my questions thank you thank you", "start": 5076.44, "end": 5085.239}, {"text": "counselor we have another addition councelor", "start": 5086.08, "end": 5091.239}, {"text": "cret thanks for providing this data and I I fared through the Cornerstone", "start": 5092.36, "end": 5097.4}, {"text": "realtors association website and eventually found a link to it so I can see it which is helpful and if you don't mind making sure we get a copy of your", "start": 5097.4, "end": 5103.76}, {"text": "presentation so we can see for later it's great um my question for you is specifically about the context for", "start": 5103.76, "end": 5109.04}, {"text": "residents I represent in War 2 and you may or may not be aware of this 80% of the people who live here rent their homes councelor Mor Wilson asked an", "start": 5109.04, "end": 5115.52}, {"text": "important question was did you ask that question about how people Define and understand themselves in terms of their relationship to home ownership and I", "start": 5115.52, "end": 5122.4}, {"text": "asked that because if everybody in war to was suddenly trying to own a home they would have to leave Ward too um so", "start": 5122.4, "end": 5128.239}, {"text": "the context here is a very different context so I'm just wondering if you have thought about that analyze that data if you have W byward information um", "start": 5128.239, "end": 5134.84}, {"text": "or if you plan to follow up and ask those kinds of questions about people's path to home ownership and where they reside in the city yeah so at the W", "start": 5134.84, "end": 5141.04}, {"text": "level I can speak to that is the the challenge with WS is that they're they're smaller centers compared to the city which makes it difficult to get a", "start": 5141.04, "end": 5147.199}, {"text": "sample within those Wards without going kind of the the telephone route which is a very converson approach when you look at um using their their post or their um", "start": 5147.199, "end": 5156.28}, {"text": "uh their FSA to actually Reach people so it's hard to Target that way so we don't look at that in the full report which I", "start": 5156.28, "end": 5161.719}, {"text": "believe is on the cornerstone site we actually do ask people uh do you currently own a home and do you want to own a home as well so we find about", "start": 5161.719, "end": 5167.639}, {"text": "three qus of those give or take depending on where you are in the the country around three qus do intend to", "start": 5167.639, "end": 5172.92}, {"text": "purchase a home one day um but at the same time many are giving up and looking for alternative Solutions because they", "start": 5172.92, "end": 5179.199}, {"text": "they simply can't afford to purchase homes now in the past year we've seen an increase in people looking for", "start": 5179.199, "end": 5184.52}, {"text": "alternative uh whether it be modular homes or co-op housing or things like that to find Solutions because they want to own a home but they can't because", "start": 5184.52, "end": 5191.04}, {"text": "they cannot afford it so in in the survey here we did analyze those cross tabs based on those different areas but", "start": 5191.04, "end": 5197.08}, {"text": "as I said at the start um this is an issue that that goes beyond those who are struggling and those who want to own", "start": 5197.08, "end": 5202.76}, {"text": "a home and it touches on all residents and the fact that nine and 10 residents think that housing affordability is an", "start": 5202.76, "end": 5208.48}, {"text": "issue in the city um is a very significant and and drastic number last question for me is about", "start": 5208.48, "end": 5215.44}, {"text": "what I hear from most young people I speak to about uh their cons considerable uh concerns about the", "start": 5215.44, "end": 5221.88}, {"text": "possibility of ever owning a home and did you have a question designed in the Sur again I've done my best to try and find this information but it's not super", "start": 5221.88, "end": 5228.36}, {"text": "clear did you have a question designed in there to talk about you know where people are coming from demographically", "start": 5228.36, "end": 5234.719}, {"text": "because I think what you're saying here and suggesting is a sentiment frankly it's about what's happening you're", "start": 5234.719, "end": 5239.84}, {"text": "talking about housing affordability that's a huge topic right um but we're talking about who are actually going to", "start": 5239.84, "end": 5244.88}, {"text": "be purchasing a home as firsttime home buyers how did you identify those individuals and engage their responses in the context of of your results so in", "start": 5244.88, "end": 5251.76}, {"text": "that we ask them simply do you intend to purchase a home in the next one two three and and so on in terms of years or", "start": 5251.76, "end": 5257.08}, {"text": "those there's an option for no I do not or I'm in my forever home orever that may be so in the one slide in terms of", "start": 5257.08, "end": 5262.639}, {"text": "the the hindering the affordability aspect um Sor I might love to keep showing slides I apologize if this is breaking uh the rules here but go ahead", "start": 5262.639, "end": 5269}, {"text": "and show them there you know on this slide here this is only for those who indicate they want to buy a home so that", "start": 5269, "end": 5274.48}, {"text": "shows that 67% of people that want to buy a home in Hamilton think that it will hinder their ability uh and just to", "start": 5274.48, "end": 5280.32}, {"text": "touch on your point on the sentiment side of things I I think that it's it's I would respectfully argue that it's not", "start": 5280.32, "end": 5286.719}, {"text": "a sentiment it's actually a reality around the fact that housing is it's a very visible and it's a very challenging", "start": 5286.719, "end": 5292.48}, {"text": "issue for a lot of individuals and they see it and they feel it so I think on on that respect it is something that um", "start": 5292.48, "end": 5298.679}, {"text": "people are are answering these questions with the mind that they want to buy a home or that they intend to buy", "start": 5298.679, "end": 5303.76}, {"text": "a home so I think when we look at things around concerns around affordability and the inability to buy a home I think these results really speak to the fact", "start": 5303.76, "end": 5309.96}, {"text": "that that those who want to buy don't feel that they can yeah thanks and I think my comment to was just trying to", "start": 5309.96, "end": 5315.36}, {"text": "focus in on the demographic shift right so when we look at younger people and their responses to this versus people", "start": 5315.36, "end": 5320.52}, {"text": "who already own property perhaps and want to do something else um there's all different stages of of situations here so what I'm saying about the sentiment", "start": 5320.52, "end": 5326.719}, {"text": "is generally speaking we're talking put something broadly the reality comes down to some of the demographic data that I", "start": 5326.719, "end": 5331.96}, {"text": "don't see here so if this comes up in future it be really helpful to see a breakdown um by W it' be helpful to see", "start": 5331.96, "end": 5337.48}, {"text": "a breakdown by age other kinds of demographic data to get a better understanding of who's who's feeling the pinch here um and how would why thank", "start": 5337.48, "end": 5344}, {"text": "you absolutely yeah and I will say that that the demographic analysis we did do and that's why they're not included here is that there weren't really any at all", "start": 5344, "end": 5349.44}, {"text": "and they were very minor differences so it is a very consistent consensus across age income uh all those different areas", "start": 5349.44, "end": 5358.48}, {"text": "so okay thanks Eddie for sharing your research we look forward to receiving copies of it um that's all the questions", "start": 5358.48, "end": 5365.84}, {"text": "for now moving", "start": 5365.84, "end": 5372.239}, {"text": "forward I would like to remind the audience that we need to not have interruptions but thank you", "start": 5372.84, "end": 5380.159}, {"text": "for showing your appreciation um next delegate is Julie Sergey Cornerstone Association of Realtors", "start": 5380.159, "end": 5388.56}, {"text": "Julie and reminder Julie that you'll have five minutes there'll be a tone at four minutes thank", "start": 5392.76, "end": 5400.84}, {"text": "you okay thank", "start": 5404.36, "end": 5408.4}, {"text": "you we get to go there no", "start": 5414.36, "end": 5420.28}, {"text": "for those at home we're just adjusting some of our audio settings thank you for", "start": 5438.76, "end": 5443.8}, {"text": "being patient", "start": 5443.8, "end": 5447.118}, {"text": "is that better did that work I think it was this laptop maybe that was I just muted", "start": 5463.199, "end": 5473.239}, {"text": "it thank you Julie no problem okay well thank thank you and", "start": 5477.639, "end": 5484.88}, {"text": "good morning Deputy Mayor and City councilors my name is Julie Sergey and I am the chair of the Cornerstone", "start": 5484.88, "end": 5490.719}, {"text": "Association of Realtors which many of you would have previously known as the Realtors Association of Hamilton", "start": 5490.719, "end": 5496.52}, {"text": "Burlington and I am a broker with Roy a page bur o Real Estate Services I am", "start": 5496.52, "end": 5501.719}, {"text": "here today to discuss the impacts of implementing a municipal land transfer tax on hamiltonians a secondary land", "start": 5501.719, "end": 5508.32}, {"text": "transfer tax equal in cost to the current provincial land transfer tax would weigh heavily on hopeful home", "start": 5508.32, "end": 5514.28}, {"text": "buyers and have a ripple effect on our local economy as the mayor herself has pointed out on several occasions housing", "start": 5514.28, "end": 5521.639}, {"text": "is a human right and affordable housing is imperative we at the Cornerstone", "start": 5521.639, "end": 5526.76}, {"text": "Association of Realtors agree with this fundamental statement and feel an mltt would be counterproductive to one of the", "start": 5526.76, "end": 5533.44}, {"text": "city's core initiatives making housing more affordable an mltt makes home", "start": 5533.44, "end": 5539.239}, {"text": "ownership less affordable by forcing buyers to pay tens of thousands of dollars in taxes when considering a move", "start": 5539.239, "end": 5545.04}, {"text": "within or to our city including those areas outside of the downtown Corp such", "start": 5545.04, "end": 5550.4}, {"text": "as Waterdown Dundas ancter Stony Creek Etc this tax would add an additional", "start": 5550.4, "end": 5557.52}, {"text": "$2,475 to the purchase of the average home price in Hamilton altogether local", "start": 5557.52, "end": 5562.92}, {"text": "home buyers would pay almost $25,000 in land transfer taxes half of", "start": 5562.92, "end": 5568.44}, {"text": "which would go to the province and the other half to the city this money is paid upfront and can not be rolled into", "start": 5568.44, "end": 5574.76}, {"text": "a mortgage it is not part of the down payment which on an average home in Hamilton is now approximately", "start": 5574.76, "end": 5581.719}, {"text": "$85,000 and it is not considered in the home's value the mltt is a tax that", "start": 5581.719, "end": 5587.28}, {"text": "Hamilton home buyers cannot afford to pay and this Council knows that hamiltonians already pay much higher", "start": 5587.28, "end": 5592.96}, {"text": "Municipal Taxes than many of our neighboring communities the mltt is", "start": 5592.96, "end": 5598}, {"text": "fundamentally unfair each year a considerable number of hamiltonians move for various reasons a firsttime home", "start": 5598, "end": 5604.88}, {"text": "buyer is finally able to move out of their rental unit freeing up much needed Rental Supply a young couple moves out", "start": 5604.88, "end": 5611.239}, {"text": "of their condo into their starter home because a baby is on the way a young family moving from that starter home", "start": 5611.239, "end": 5617.44}, {"text": "into something larger to accommodate their growing family and a senior looking to leave that large family home", "start": 5617.44, "end": 5623.84}, {"text": "for something easier to manage in their Golden Years these are the good stories let's not forget those who may be forced", "start": 5623.84, "end": 5630.36}, {"text": "to move due to family breakup job loss ill illness or other financially tough", "start": 5630.36, "end": 5636.199}, {"text": "times that many find themselves in it is unfair and wrong to expect these people to shoulder such a significant tax", "start": 5636.199, "end": 5643.119}, {"text": "burden for no additional Services provided to them the mltt has had a", "start": 5643.119, "end": 5649.32}, {"text": "significant impact in Toronto it essentially created two incentives the first was for homeowners to stay put", "start": 5649.32, "end": 5656.36}, {"text": "which resulted in high demand for homes and low Supply impacting affordability", "start": 5656.36, "end": 5661.52}, {"text": "the second incentive drove buyers out of the the city into more affordable neighboring jurisdictions without a", "start": 5661.52, "end": 5667.08}, {"text": "municipal land transfer tax such as Hamilton and we certainly saw that influx from Toronto for many years not", "start": 5667.08, "end": 5674.44}, {"text": "having an mltt gives Hamilton one of its competitive advantages as a as a", "start": 5674.44, "end": 5679.76}, {"text": "destination to live work and raise a family if we force another tax on people's home purchasing power they will", "start": 5679.76, "end": 5686.28}, {"text": "certainly look to our neighboring communities of Brantford Burlington Grimsby and haldn County where travel", "start": 5686.28, "end": 5692.159}, {"text": "times are similar but home prices and property taxes are much less we currently see this in our Market as many", "start": 5692.159, "end": 5699.4}, {"text": "already see Hamilton as an unaffordable City we are getting in front of you today because Hamilton does not need", "start": 5699.4, "end": 5705.88}, {"text": "anything to devalue our real estate market currently this city has significant momentum cranes are in the", "start": 5705.88, "end": 5713.08}, {"text": "sky subdivisions are being built and the city will benefit from the new tax base of those builds we want to encourage and", "start": 5713.08, "end": 5720.239}, {"text": "welcome those who can afford homes here people who will buy a and circulate their money in our local economy by", "start": 5720.239, "end": 5726.719}, {"text": "purchasing appliances doing home renovations and enjoying our retail and Hospitality throughout the city let me", "start": 5726.719, "end": 5733.679}, {"text": "reiterate an mltt affects one of the city's key housing mandates", "start": 5733.679, "end": 5738.88}, {"text": "affordability it is counterintuitive to this goal and bad for business once it is implemented it will never go away we", "start": 5738.88, "end": 5746}, {"text": "do not support this as a revenue tool for City management we support good fiscal management and solutions-based", "start": 5746, "end": 5752.4}, {"text": "initiatives we urge Ur the city to find ways to fund infrastructure needs to the lens of long-term investment we also", "start": 5752.4, "end": 5758.8}, {"text": "encourage the city to continue building more homes so it can access funding from the provincial and federal governments", "start": 5758.8, "end": 5764.719}, {"text": "as promised in the housing accelerator fund let's continue to make Hamilton a great place to live work and play the", "start": 5764.719, "end": 5771.96}, {"text": "first of those three things is to live so let's aim to make that more attainable not less in closing we need", "start": 5771.96, "end": 5778.52}, {"text": "real solutions to this housing crisis not additional Taxation and in short", "start": 5778.52, "end": 5783.84}, {"text": "homes not hurdles thank", "start": 5783.84, "end": 5787.76}, {"text": "you order thank you Julie thank you I don't", "start": 5790, "end": 5796.04}, {"text": "see any speakers on the list is there any speakers okay Julie thank you so", "start": 5796.04, "end": 5804.04}, {"text": "much our next delegate is Mike Collins Williams from Westend West End Home", "start": 5806.6, "end": 5812.52}, {"text": "Builders Association and it will be personal or he's here", "start": 5812.52, "end": 5818.199}, {"text": "come on up Mike I think you know the routine four minutes you'll hear the tone five", "start": 5818.199, "end": 5825.119}, {"text": "minutes Li limited thank you", "start": 5825.119, "end": 5830.32}, {"text": "good morning my name is Mike Collins Williams and I the CEO of the West End homebuilders Association our membership", "start": 5849.32, "end": 5855}, {"text": "includes 32020 member companies that support 20,000 well-paying jobs in the city of Hamilton I'm here to voice my", "start": 5855, "end": 5862.32}, {"text": "concern about the potential implementation of a municipal land transfer tax in Hamilton while I understand the need for municipalities", "start": 5862.32, "end": 5868.48}, {"text": "to explore Revenue sources such attacks would have extremely negative consequences reality is that home buyers", "start": 5868.48, "end": 5874.599}, {"text": "already face substantial Financial burdens approximately 30% of the cost of a new home is already taxes paid to all", "start": 5874.599, "end": 5881.159}, {"text": "three levels of government adding another layer of Taxation risk pricing out many firsttime home buyers and", "start": 5881.159, "end": 5886.56}, {"text": "deterring others from entering the market altogether the economic Ripple effects of such attacks would be detrimental to Hamilton's economy when", "start": 5886.56, "end": 5893.76}, {"text": "new home starts decline it's not just developers who feel the pinch it's also construction workers trades people and", "start": 5893.76, "end": 5899.48}, {"text": "other businesses that Supply materials and services to the construction sector there are also Equity considerations to", "start": 5899.48, "end": 5905}, {"text": "bear in mind a municipal land transfer tax disproportionately impacts those who are already struggling to enter the", "start": 5905, "end": 5910.32}, {"text": "market particularly young families and individuals with moderate incomes the mere fact that the general issues", "start": 5910.32, "end": 5916.199}, {"text": "committee is even discussing this and directing Municipal staff to waste valuable time analyzing adding over $117", "start": 5916.199, "end": 5923.199}, {"text": "million in new taxes on housing in the middle of a housing crisis in the middle of the worst housing market since the", "start": 5923.199, "end": 5929.56}, {"text": "1990s demonstrates a complete and utter disconnect from reality I'm shocked that I'm even having to delegate to even", "start": 5929.56, "end": 5937.8}, {"text": "share a concern order please that perhaps $17 million new tax on housing", "start": 5937.8, "end": 5944.08}, {"text": "might be a bad idea the city seems to be losing the plot on housing Economic Development and supporting the", "start": 5944.08, "end": 5950.08}, {"text": "aspirations of middle class or understanding the very real struggles of young people and hardworking immigrants", "start": 5950.08, "end": 5955.76}, {"text": "trying to get into the housing market in 2024 while other municipalities like Burlington vaugh worked hard to reduce", "start": 5955.76, "end": 5962.76}, {"text": "development sh chares Hamilton made policy changes to maximize their financial extraction from new home", "start": 5962.76, "end": 5968.199}, {"text": "purchasers by increasing development charges so I guess it's on brand that as the housing crisis worsens that the 2025", "start": 5968.199, "end": 5975.92}, {"text": "strategy to address the housing crisis continues to be increasing taxes and making it even harder for hamiltonians", "start": 5975.92, "end": 5981.92}, {"text": "to afford a roof over their heads and further torpedo the economic viability of building anything in Hamilton", "start": 5981.92, "end": 5988.04}, {"text": "speaking of building anything in Hamilton housing starts the year 2025 housing starts are not available yet", "start": 5988.04, "end": 5994.08}, {"text": "from CC but I can report that the city of Hamilton had 1,45 housing starts from", "start": 5994.08, "end": 5999.56}, {"text": "January through to November that's the second lowest total in the last 10 years in 2023 the number at the end of", "start": 5999.56, "end": 6006}, {"text": "November was nearly double 2,800 the main reason for this decline high-rise intensification numbers have absolutely", "start": 6006, "end": 6012.84}, {"text": "fallen off a cliff sales again year-end numbers have not been released but I can", "start": 6012.84, "end": 6017.88}, {"text": "report for the GTA in Hamilton new condo Market reported a total of 567 sales in", "start": 6017.88, "end": 6023.44}, {"text": "the third quarter of last year that's the lowest quarterly total since 1995 new condo sales fell 81%", "start": 6023.44, "end": 6031.52}, {"text": "year-over-year and are 87% below the 10year average year-to date new condo sales at the end of the third quarter", "start": 6031.52, "end": 6037.639}, {"text": "for the GTA and Hamilton are down 63% for the same period last year and that is putting the new condo Market on track", "start": 6037.639, "end": 6044.44}, {"text": "for its slowest year in sales since 1996 enrollments I do have the 2284", "start": 6044.44, "end": 6050.719}, {"text": "numbers a builder must be registered with terion and enroll any unit as a house or condo prior to launching sales", "start": 6050.719, "end": 6057.04}, {"text": "in my view this is the best indicator of future Market activity as it demonstrates whether Builders are confident in the market for the year end", "start": 6057.04, "end": 6064.4}, {"text": "2024 there were only 737 units across the entire city enrolled those are", "start": 6064.4, "end": 6069.679}, {"text": "atrocious numbers a single building downtown could easily be 3 or 400 units", "start": 6069.679, "end": 6074.719}, {"text": "and we're talking 737 across the entire city for the entire year across Canada CC reports", "start": 6074.719, "end": 6083.32}, {"text": "housing starts for single detached homes are the lowest they've been in 69 years", "start": 6083.32, "end": 6088.52}, {"text": "you'd literally have to go back to 1955 when Canada had a population of under 16 million when that segment of the housing", "start": 6088.52, "end": 6095.199}, {"text": "sector were at production levels this low nothing is selling nothing is getting construction loan financing and", "start": 6095.199, "end": 6101.599}, {"text": "nothing is moving ahead the actual cost to build today between labor materials financing taxes exceeds what the market", "start": 6101.599, "end": 6108.92}, {"text": "can afford and is willing to pay and here we are at the general issues committee today you you have a report before you to add even more taxes to the", "start": 6108.92, "end": 6116.199}, {"text": "cost of housing I honestly don't know what to say the city doesn't even have the legislative authority to implement a", "start": 6116.199, "end": 6121.84}, {"text": "municipal land transfer tax the last time this was even discussed seriously was in 2015 during a hot housing market", "start": 6121.84, "end": 6128.56}, {"text": "and The Honorable Ted mcmein the minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing rejected it I struggle with why", "start": 6128.56, "end": 6134.639}, {"text": "we're spending time and resources on a public policy ideas to increase taxes on housing for which the city has no", "start": 6134.639, "end": 6140.639}, {"text": "legislative authority to proceed thank you very much for listening to my", "start": 6140.639, "end": 6146.599}, {"text": "presentation all right thank you we do have a speakers list and we'll", "start": 6147.119, "end": 6154}, {"text": "start with M Wilson's questions first councelor M Wilson thank you thank you Mike for", "start": 6154, "end": 6160.92}, {"text": "being here um just two questions to clarify you talked about um plummeting", "start": 6160.92, "end": 6167.239}, {"text": "construction starts in the housing market uh and I think you referenced", "start": 6167.239, "end": 6172.8}, {"text": "hamilt 's um housing starts are you aware of whether any jurisdiction has", "start": 6172.8, "end": 6178.599}, {"text": "met their housing Target this last measure so there's about 30", "start": 6178.599, "end": 6183.96}, {"text": "municipalities that have uh assigned housing targets Hamilton's assigned Target is", "start": 6183.96, "end": 6189.239}, {"text": "47,000 there's one or two of the very of the much smaller municipalities that have reached their housing targets and", "start": 6189.239, "end": 6196}, {"text": "that's a bit of an anomaly so for example um Hamilton last year did reach its housing Target and a big part of", "start": 6196, "end": 6202.28}, {"text": "that was and it's great news emblem started their projects um in 2023 up the", "start": 6202.28, "end": 6207.88}, {"text": "street and that was 900 units in one shot which is about a quarter of Hamilton's total amount of um housing", "start": 6207.88, "end": 6214.239}, {"text": "starts required so if you are a smaller municipality um a single project can tip", "start": 6214.239, "end": 6220.36}, {"text": "the scales towards achieving a housing uh Target whereas any larger municipalities you know Hamilton Bond", "start": 6220.36, "end": 6226.48}, {"text": "Burlington Etc um they need a strong Market overall with a multitude of projects to reach their targets so", "start": 6226.48, "end": 6233.679}, {"text": "to answer your question directly a couple did but they're the smaller", "start": 6233.679, "end": 6238.76}, {"text": "municipalities yeah thank you so in summary no municipality in Ontario with the exception of those small ones", "start": 6238.76, "end": 6245.159}, {"text": "because of what you just described one single unit one single build um if it's", "start": 6245.159, "end": 6251.04}, {"text": "multi-residential could put them over the top no single municipality in Ontario has reached their housing Target", "start": 6251.04, "end": 6257.28}, {"text": "and would you agree that the government of Ontario has not reached its housing", "start": 6257.28, "end": 6262.52}, {"text": "Target the government of Ontario is nowhere close to reaching its housing Target okay thank you you talked about", "start": 6262.52, "end": 6269.08}, {"text": "the pluming condo sales chair in the city of Toronto um I've been following", "start": 6269.08, "end": 6275.88}, {"text": "that story but probably not as closely as you have um", "start": 6275.88, "end": 6281.44}, {"text": "and the description of it goes something like this um investors got in at the high end they're overwhelmingly um those", "start": 6281.44, "end": 6288.8}, {"text": "small condos that that don't suit those um families um were scooped up by investors", "start": 6288.8, "end": 6296.599}, {"text": "at the top end and uh now they're they're not moving which has contributed", "start": 6296.599, "end": 6302.96}, {"text": "to uh for some people it's a good news story plummeting prices um for others not so much I'm just uh wondering do you", "start": 6302.96, "end": 6310.04}, {"text": "know what proportion of the condo Market is are being purchased by investors as", "start": 6310.04, "end": 6315.52}, {"text": "opposed to those who are um going to be moving in through the chair it's it's a", "start": 6315.52, "end": 6321.199}, {"text": "through the chair it's a fluctuating number and it really depends where you are so in downtown Hamilton in downtown", "start": 6321.199, "end": 6326.599}, {"text": "Toronto or say downtown uh Vancouver the investor Market is a much more uh", "start": 6326.599, "end": 6332.119}, {"text": "significant share of the market than it would be in municipalities like Hamilton nonetheless there still is an investor", "start": 6332.119, "end": 6337.84}, {"text": "component here the investors have completely vacated the markets um", "start": 6337.84, "end": 6343.199}, {"text": "specifically in downtown uh Toronto uh downtown Vancouver and um they're", "start": 6343.199, "end": 6348.28}, {"text": "actually critical component of that market when you're building 50 60 70 story Towers along the Subway Lines", "start": 6348.28, "end": 6354.52}, {"text": "those buildings take five or six years to build um end users aren't really part", "start": 6354.52, "end": 6360.52}, {"text": "of the equation there you don't have a typical family buying a two-bedroom condo thinking that they're going to", "start": 6360.52, "end": 6366.119}, {"text": "move in seven years because they've done the Family Planning and know exactly how old or big their kids are going to be when they go in so those investors um", "start": 6366.119, "end": 6374.4}, {"text": "basically get the building to that 70 or 80% financing targets the banks lend the", "start": 6374.4, "end": 6380}, {"text": "money the building moves forward um they're essenti part of the Capital stock that allows the building to go", "start": 6380, "end": 6385.28}, {"text": "forward and get built then it becomes part of the long-term housing Supply those units are either rented out or go", "start": 6385.28, "end": 6390.48}, {"text": "on the resale markets um I will note that the banks have changed uh their lending practices it used to be 70%", "start": 6390.48, "end": 6398.599}, {"text": "typically to get construction loan financing a lot of the banks have now shifted to 80% um pre uh pre-sales", "start": 6398.599, "end": 6407}, {"text": "required for financing and that is for two reasons a number of Builders have", "start": 6407, "end": 6412.32}, {"text": "gone under the market is very bad out there the banks have been left holding the bag residential construction is now", "start": 6412.32, "end": 6418.76}, {"text": "perceived as being extremely risky and there are higher likelihood of projects", "start": 6418.76, "end": 6423.8}, {"text": "failing so the banks have changed their lending conditions making it even harder to move", "start": 6423.8, "end": 6429.36}, {"text": "forward thank you is that my time you have 30 seconds oh thank you um thank you I appreciate the fact that in your", "start": 6429.36, "end": 6436.44}, {"text": "uh delegation you referenced um the rise of construction cost uh would you", "start": 6436.44, "end": 6442.36}, {"text": "concede I think uh I read that uh for municipalities the cost of construction", "start": 6442.36, "end": 6449.119}, {"text": "uh has risen in the last couple of number of years in terms of our infrastructure um retrofits Andor new", "start": 6449.119, "end": 6456.32}, {"text": "builds by 30 to 70% would you so the same Rising costs that are affecting", "start": 6456.32, "end": 6463}, {"text": "municipalities and therefore property taxes are are also affecting your Market", "start": 6463, "end": 6468.599}, {"text": "I think our industry is most closely aligned with feeling the same pain that you are um we buy concrete we buy lumber", "start": 6468.599, "end": 6477.199}, {"text": "um a lot of the same construction cost that we're facing municipalities are facing um you know there's a couple", "start": 6477.199, "end": 6482.96}, {"text": "products Lumbers come off a little bit since the pandemic but other things such as rebar and concrete are still very", "start": 6482.96, "end": 6488.159}, {"text": "high um labor costs are up overall but they are going to taper off a bit as", "start": 6488.159, "end": 6493.719}, {"text": "construction starts fall but um we're in the same cost environment as you are thank you and I I do appreciate the fact", "start": 6493.719, "end": 6499.84}, {"text": "that you opened your delegation by saying um that is a a consequence of um", "start": 6499.84, "end": 6507.92}, {"text": "municipalities um not enjoying any new access to to revenues as determined by", "start": 6507.92, "end": 6514.48}, {"text": "the the government of Ontario um we we need to find um some Alternatives so", "start": 6514.48, "end": 6521.04}, {"text": "thank you for your delegation thank you councelor M Wilson in the queue we have councilors Clark Bey and Paul's in line", "start": 6521.04, "end": 6527.119}, {"text": "and councelor Clark it's your turn now thank you Deputy Mayor tson just a", "start": 6527.119, "end": 6534.84}, {"text": "couple of questions and I'm trying to clarify exactly um what Michael said with", "start": 6534.84, "end": 6540.159}, {"text": "regards to the current economy um when you were speaking", "start": 6540.159, "end": 6547.96}, {"text": "of the downturn in the housing market in general were you speaking specifically", "start": 6548, "end": 6555.639}, {"text": "about Hamilton or a broader market across Canada so through the chair I'll", "start": 6555.639, "end": 6561.56}, {"text": "apologize for speaking so so quickly I was trying to get through my um through my delegation so um it was a mix most of", "start": 6561.56, "end": 6568.84}, {"text": "the numbers uh the housing starts I quoted were Hamilton specific the sales I quoted are through uh Urban Nation and", "start": 6568.84, "end": 6576.32}, {"text": "they lump Hamilton and the GTA together as a larger market um I'm hoping to get", "start": 6576.32, "end": 6582.04}, {"text": "Hamilton specific sales numbers which I'd be pleased to share with Council Urban Nation I believe will be releasing", "start": 6582.04, "end": 6588.48}, {"text": "their year-end numbers next week so I will um have more data next week I can", "start": 6588.48, "end": 6593.76}, {"text": "break it out by Hamilton and share specifically but um so to go back the housing starts Hamilton specific the", "start": 6593.76, "end": 6600.88}, {"text": "teron enrollments Hamilton specific the sales were GTA and Hamilton", "start": 6600.88, "end": 6606.04}, {"text": "together uh thank thank you for that Deputy Mayor tatterson I've always looked at housing starts as as the", "start": 6606.04, "end": 6613.84}, {"text": "canary and the coal mine for the economy it seems to be one of the first things", "start": 6613.84, "end": 6619.8}, {"text": "that pop up and we can see something is", "start": 6619.8, "end": 6624.84}, {"text": "happening with regards to the drop in housing starts do you have an", "start": 6624.84, "end": 6631.84}, {"text": "understanding of what your members are doing with regards to um their employees", "start": 6631.84, "end": 6637.52}, {"text": "their contractors CU I've been hearing lots of rumors about layoffs from the", "start": 6637.52, "end": 6643.28}, {"text": "construction sector would that be a direct result of they're not starting any houses so I", "start": 6643.28, "end": 6649.8}, {"text": "have no work for you to do so there's a mix um we have a diversity of member", "start": 6649.8, "end": 6655.8}, {"text": "companies some are better capitalized than others some are larger businesses some are smaller businesses um some", "start": 6655.8, "end": 6662.599}, {"text": "companies will continue as best they can even at a loss if they have some Capital", "start": 6662.599, "end": 6667.8}, {"text": "available uh to try to keep the machine rolling so to speak if they have good people good trades they want to keep", "start": 6667.8, "end": 6674.32}, {"text": "them employed they're trying their best to do so um there are other companies that are simply not in a position to do", "start": 6674.32, "end": 6680.32}, {"text": "so um some are shifting to rental uh versus uh ownership there's not a lot that are", "start": 6680.32, "end": 6687.079}, {"text": "able to do that but just a few but um the overall sentiment is people are nervous out there layoffs have started", "start": 6687.079, "end": 6693.04}, {"text": "and you mentioned housing starts as the canary and the coal mine the canary before the housing starts is the sales", "start": 6693.04, "end": 6700.04}, {"text": "because if you're not selling you're not starting and before sales it's the enrollments because you have to enroll", "start": 6700.04, "end": 6705.36}, {"text": "prior to going to sales and the sales are the worst they've been since the 90s and the enrollments are the worst I've", "start": 6705.36, "end": 6711.159}, {"text": "ever seen so if you thought housing starts were bad in 2024 it's going to be", "start": 6711.159, "end": 6716.199}, {"text": "worse in 2025 thank you Deputy may ttis can I", "start": 6716.199, "end": 6721.56}, {"text": "inquire um you you you talked about the starts", "start": 6721.56, "end": 6726.639}, {"text": "and what was the other thing that you mentioned um so enrollment what what what when you're saying enrollment what", "start": 6726.639, "end": 6732.04}, {"text": "exactly are you referring to is that the registrations so to legally build in", "start": 6732.04, "end": 6738.28}, {"text": "Ontario uh we have the terion warranty corporation uh that is governed under the Ontario new home warranties plan act", "start": 6738.28, "end": 6745.719}, {"text": "a builder must be registered with the teron warranty Corporation to legally", "start": 6745.719, "end": 6750.88}, {"text": "build in Ontario there's a whole set of financial obligation shity bonds Etc uh", "start": 6750.88, "end": 6756.52}, {"text": "is a pretty complicated process and then for any uh Builder that is registered", "start": 6756.52, "end": 6761.719}, {"text": "with terion whether it's a condo Tower or a single custom home that Builder has", "start": 6761.719, "end": 6767.079}, {"text": "to apply to terion um they have to go through a detailed Financial", "start": 6767.079, "end": 6773.599}, {"text": "um basically to show that they can meet their obligations to their customers each individual unit has to be enrolled", "start": 6773.599, "end": 6780.92}, {"text": "once a unit is enrolled you're legally permitted to go to sale so the enrollment happens first then you can go", "start": 6780.92, "end": 6787}, {"text": "to sales and when you sell eventually you get to that housing start last", "start": 6787, "end": 6792.159}, {"text": "question because I heard the dingling um when it comes to the economy itself", "start": 6792.159, "end": 6800.639}, {"text": "and as we're moving forward um do you have an overall concern about", "start": 6800.639, "end": 6807.719}, {"text": "where the economy is and is the bank's interest rates that they are charging", "start": 6807.719, "end": 6813.679}, {"text": "not necessarily for mortgages but for developers and", "start": 6813.679, "end": 6818.96}, {"text": "contractors lines of credits those interest rates seem to have um gone", "start": 6818.96, "end": 6824.119}, {"text": "through the roof so what's your assessment as to where we are headed the interest rates are moving in the right", "start": 6824.119, "end": 6830.36}, {"text": "direction I think we're all expecting further reductions but um interest rate", "start": 6830.36, "end": 6835.639}, {"text": "and financing uh well it's a critical component to construction loan financing and and consumer", "start": 6835.639, "end": 6842.32}, {"text": "mortgages it is not the Silver Bullet it is not going to solve the problem it will help make things better but we have", "start": 6842.32, "end": 6850.119}, {"text": "the housing sector is fundamentally broken in terms of the cost inputs and you know we've got other things", "start": 6850.119, "end": 6856.119}, {"text": "happening South of the Border which might cause further problems", "start": 6856.119, "end": 6861.638}, {"text": "welcome to Mayor Horvath who's in the chambers now and we're going to move to councelor Bey this is your moment to", "start": 6865.079, "end": 6873.48}, {"text": "shine no pressure Deputy Mayor thank you so much uh Mike thank you for being here", "start": 6873.48, "end": 6880.159}, {"text": "and I I wasn't going to ask any questions uh but there was something in your presentation that kind of jumped", "start": 6880.159, "end": 6885.28}, {"text": "out on me uh you mentioned the term equity and I'm not an expert in in the", "start": 6885.28, "end": 6890.719}, {"text": "field at all I have my own personal experiences um and memories of being a", "start": 6890.719, "end": 6897.32}, {"text": "first-time home buyer um you know scrimping and saving to buy that little Bungalow wartime Bungalow in Millan Road", "start": 6897.32, "end": 6904.719}, {"text": "um and what struck me as interesting in relation to the the equity term is it wasn't so much the purchase of uh that", "start": 6904.719, "end": 6912.719}, {"text": "first home but the second home that we purchased as a result of investing in", "start": 6912.719, "end": 6919.44}, {"text": "that little wartime Bungalow uh building equity and then having the opportunity to upssize as our family needs changed", "start": 6919.44, "end": 6927.32}, {"text": "and then further reflection that because we upsized it allowed another family to downsize which then freed up another", "start": 6927.32, "end": 6934.36}, {"text": "home somewhere else and the cycle continues on and on and on so I guess my my question to you you mentioned Equity", "start": 6934.36, "end": 6941.36}, {"text": "if you could elaborate number one if you could elaborate on what you perceive to be the impact on that situation that", "start": 6941.36, "end": 6948.88}, {"text": "people find themselves in and number two uh just Within the the ecosystem of the housing market um those lateral moves", "start": 6948.88, "end": 6956.8}, {"text": "that are not necessarily encapsulated as firsttime home buyers with the importance of people upsizing people", "start": 6956.8, "end": 6963.119}, {"text": "downsizing and all of the subsequent Cascade effect that that one transaction", "start": 6963.119, "end": 6968.36}, {"text": "leads to multiple other transactions and opportunities elsewhere hopefully I've framed the question correctly so through", "start": 6968.36, "end": 6974.48}, {"text": "the chair I'll I'll answer the second question first um there's a process within the housing system uh and and", "start": 6974.48, "end": 6980.48}, {"text": "housing is a Continuum um this entire systems connected called uh filtering", "start": 6980.48, "end": 6985.719}, {"text": "where um when an individual or a family vacate one unit to move to a different", "start": 6985.719, "end": 6991.159}, {"text": "unit that creates an opportunity within that unit and people move up and down through the housing Continuum so you", "start": 6991.159, "end": 6998.119}, {"text": "know a typical uh individual or family whether they're living in Toronto Ottawa", "start": 6998.119, "end": 7004.32}, {"text": "Hamilton um you know they'll live with their parents they'll scrimp and save they'll get that basement small tiny", "start": 7004.32, "end": 7011.159}, {"text": "apartment somewhere they'll continue scrimping and saving maybe they get a bigger apartment eventually they're a", "start": 7011.159, "end": 7016.639}, {"text": "firsttime buyer if if if they can make that jump and you know you mentioned", "start": 7016.639, "end": 7021.92}, {"text": "Equity they continue to build equity and kind of move through the system and people have different life and uh", "start": 7021.92, "end": 7027.96}, {"text": "circumstances they move up and down the system vacating units so that firsttime", "start": 7027.96, "end": 7033.28}, {"text": "buyer that goes into that small wartime bungal or tiny condo they open up a", "start": 7033.28, "end": 7038.719}, {"text": "rental unit that somebody that um needs that rental unit get um if somebody moves from the tiny condo", "start": 7038.719, "end": 7045.119}, {"text": "to the two-bedroom condo or the little town home um because they've got a few kids that opens up the unit one of the", "start": 7045.119, "end": 7051.239}, {"text": "challenges with the housing system right now is it's it's completely jammed up people aren't really moving up or down", "start": 7051.239, "end": 7057.84}, {"text": "um and that's you know compounding at at the lower end of the housing continuing some of the issues that we have with", "start": 7057.84, "end": 7063.88}, {"text": "with homelessness that if people aren't able to make the jump from renting to", "start": 7063.88, "end": 7069.04}, {"text": "home ownership as more and more young people or immigrants come they're fighting for fewer and fewer rental", "start": 7069.04, "end": 7074.44}, {"text": "units because people aren't coming out of the rental market into the home ownership Market at at the other end um", "start": 7074.44, "end": 7080.88}, {"text": "and you know whether it's government policy taxes or it's things that government has no impact on such as uh", "start": 7080.88, "end": 7087.28}, {"text": "labor and materials Etc the fact of the matter is that the the the cost to actually build and", "start": 7087.28, "end": 7093.679}, {"text": "deliver a unit exceeds what the Market's willing to pay and people are just stuck in the system and and it's causing all", "start": 7093.679, "end": 7100}, {"text": "kinds of problems whether you're trying to move up the ladder or if you're a senior trying to downsize um to your", "start": 7100, "end": 7105.8}, {"text": "first question on Equity um I think it's become a staple sort of the the", "start": 7105.8, "end": 7110.84}, {"text": "so-called middle class in Canada that one of the best ways for uh young people", "start": 7110.84, "end": 7116.079}, {"text": "to build equity over the course of decades towards retirement is to be able to get into the housing markets um you", "start": 7116.079, "end": 7123.52}, {"text": "know there's ups and downs from year to year but overall when you look at the course of decades that's how a lot of", "start": 7123.52, "end": 7128.599}, {"text": "people build equity and can live a so-called comfor middle class and eventually retire by building that", "start": 7128.599, "end": 7135.04}, {"text": "Equity over time thank you for a very thorough answer Mike I appreciate it if you just", "start": 7135.04, "end": 7142.04}, {"text": "in a quick summary there's a there's a lot happening in in a very complex", "start": 7142.04, "end": 7147.4}, {"text": "ecosystem it's not just a matter of uh firsttime home buyers and lowincome", "start": 7147.4, "end": 7153.88}, {"text": "middle income there's a Cascade effect uh that that there's a potential for a", "start": 7153.88, "end": 7160.639}, {"text": "bigger disruption than we're already feeling right now based on the decisions that we may decide to make is that", "start": 7160.639, "end": 7167.36}, {"text": "something you could affirm the housing systems pretty complex and there are", "start": 7167.36, "end": 7172.44}, {"text": "intended consequences uh policy makers and decision M makers may have there", "start": 7172.44, "end": 7177.8}, {"text": "also unintended consequences um that can occur you know you push a button here or", "start": 7177.8, "end": 7183.84}, {"text": "pull a lever here it may have impacts over here over here that you're not clear about when you are making those", "start": 7183.84, "end": 7189.92}, {"text": "decisions thank you thank you deputy mayor", "start": 7189.92, "end": 7194.04}, {"text": "thank you councelor Bey for those questions and we're going to turn to councelor Paul's for her questions thank", "start": 7195.36, "end": 7201.56}, {"text": "you coun Pa thank you and they are questions um anyways first of all Mike", "start": 7201.56, "end": 7207.4}, {"text": "thank you for coming here and for the indepth um information and we really", "start": 7207.4, "end": 7213.96}, {"text": "appreciate it uh you said something that really stuck to with me and it should", "start": 7213.96, "end": 7219.8}, {"text": "everyone else here that um we have no Authority we have no legislative", "start": 7219.8, "end": 7226.719}, {"text": "authority to do this and really we are wasting", "start": 7226.719, "end": 7231.88}, {"text": "time um do you know if uh our Premier is", "start": 7231.88, "end": 7237.32}, {"text": "for this or against this through the chair uh in terms of", "start": 7237.32, "end": 7243.76}, {"text": "the city's intergovernmental relations strategy I can't speak to but I'd love to be a fly on the wall for that", "start": 7243.76, "end": 7249.599}, {"text": "discussion I think the provincial government has made it very clear that housing is a priority and", "start": 7249.599, "end": 7257.159}, {"text": "reducing costs and taxes around housing as well as um streamlining processes to", "start": 7257.159, "end": 7263.44}, {"text": "enable more housing Supply is a priority of the current provincial government um", "start": 7263.44, "end": 7268.639}, {"text": "with respect to the federal government it is also a top priority of the current federal government and I think we all", "start": 7268.639, "end": 7274.84}, {"text": "know there's a potential election uh potentially the future Federal Government um I I am not sure if this is", "start": 7274.84, "end": 7283.92}, {"text": "the best strategy for the city of Hamilton to be going to senior levels of government asking for additional taxation Authority on housing in the", "start": 7283.92, "end": 7290.599}, {"text": "middle of a housing crisis well thank you for that answer I just found out that Premier Ford is against this for", "start": 7290.599, "end": 7299.079}, {"text": "Hamilton to do this so um I I agree with him", "start": 7299.079, "end": 7304.52}, {"text": "100% uh but uh my next question is to you is we talk about the Cascade and the", "start": 7304.52, "end": 7311.32}, {"text": "consequence do you think people would move out of Hamilton if this is implemented and go", "start": 7311.32, "end": 7317.96}, {"text": "to different uh District where there's no taxation of land transfer time will", "start": 7317.96, "end": 7325.599}, {"text": "people be moving through the chair if you an existing resident you would not have to uh pay the tax although it might", "start": 7325.599, "end": 7333.599}, {"text": "be more difficult to sell your home if you so choose to move because the additional tax is levied um it would", "start": 7333.599, "end": 7340.639}, {"text": "make it more difficult for for newcomers to enter into the Hamilton Market or", "start": 7340.639, "end": 7347.239}, {"text": "existing young people living in Hamilton be it renting or living at their parents", "start": 7347.239, "end": 7352.52}, {"text": "house to choose to remain a resident of Hamilton it would put you at a competitive disadvantage with your immediate neighbors and I agree with", "start": 7352.52, "end": 7359.8}, {"text": "that 100% I also wanted to ask a question to Julie uh from uh the real", "start": 7359.8, "end": 7365.76}, {"text": "estate but I'll ask you when if we Implement more taxes on our housing like", "start": 7365.76, "end": 7372.04}, {"text": "CL transfer tax the vacant tax all these taxes um when somebody wants to buy a", "start": 7372.04, "end": 7378.44}, {"text": "house with the down payment be so unattainable because of the added", "start": 7378.44, "end": 7385.679}, {"text": "taxes through the chair um look I I'll I'll be honest this this might not be", "start": 7386.44, "end": 7392.599}, {"text": "the specific incident or issue that tips the scales but there's a cumulative effect there are decisions that were", "start": 7392.599, "end": 7398.92}, {"text": "made in 2024 that increase tax on new housing um and this is another decision", "start": 7398.92, "end": 7405.32}, {"text": "Point uh and it's it's a cumulative effect that keeps piling on um and you", "start": 7405.32, "end": 7410.599}, {"text": "know we do have one other example it was brought up earlier about the city of Toronto and uh their land transfer tax", "start": 7410.599, "end": 7417.159}, {"text": "and whether that would help with property taxes you know I've got the data here in 2023 Toronto increased", "start": 7417.159, "end": 7423.44}, {"text": "their property taxes 7% 2024 9.5 2025 6.9 that's a 24% tax increase since 202", "start": 7423.44, "end": 7431.84}, {"text": "3 at the same time as the province also uploaded 1.9 billion in Gardener maintenance costs so despite that", "start": 7431.84, "end": 7439.199}, {"text": "situation in the city of Toronto having a land transfer tax they continue to increase the taxes um I'm a former", "start": 7439.199, "end": 7446.119}, {"text": "resident of the city of Toronto I was there when the land transfer tax was brought in and and to you know answer a", "start": 7446.119, "end": 7452.079}, {"text": "question earlier about the the Toronto land transfer tax um the the taxation in", "start": 7452.079, "end": 7459.159}, {"text": "Toronto the mill rate is lower not because there is a land transfer tax it is because the intersection at Bay and", "start": 7459.159, "end": 7465.76}, {"text": "King those Towers the bank towers that couple square blocks alone pays more", "start": 7465.76, "end": 7471.159}, {"text": "property taxes the than the entire assessment base of the city of Toronto sorry the city of Hamilton Toronto has a", "start": 7471.159, "end": 7477.159}, {"text": "lower tax rate because of the bank Towers downtown and their industrial base not because of a land transfer", "start": 7477.159, "end": 7484.679}, {"text": "tax I appreciate that and I find it ironic that we say we want lower taxes", "start": 7484.679, "end": 7490.679}, {"text": "but we're taking a one pocket and put it in another pocket so really we're all paying so I don't think um anyways uh", "start": 7490.679, "end": 7499.199}, {"text": "everybody knows I'm against this and I appreciate you coming here thank you thank you councelor Pauls and next", "start": 7499.199, "end": 7506.92}, {"text": "on the speaker list and I was wondering when you were going to add your name councelor mcmean since you were you were", "start": 7506.92, "end": 7513.04}, {"text": "referenced in the presentation than interesting Deputy Mayor and Mike good to see you good morning we've had uh", "start": 7513.04, "end": 7520.52}, {"text": "many conversations over the years and I've always uh learned from you in uh", "start": 7520.52, "end": 7526.159}, {"text": "those conversations including today so so thank you for that uh you touched on a couple of things uh just 30 seconds", "start": 7526.159, "end": 7534.92}, {"text": "ago you mentioned the importance of the assessment base you understand that's really what's driving a lot of this in", "start": 7534.92, "end": 7540.96}, {"text": "the city we got a 14% industrial commercial to 86% residential base and", "start": 7540.96, "end": 7547.239}, {"text": "the tax rate on those big buildings in Toronto where it's closer to 5050", "start": 7547.239, "end": 7552.48}, {"text": "it could be 7.9 times the the residential base rate so or whatever it", "start": 7552.48, "end": 7558.44}, {"text": "is it's much higher um so i u i just flag that in terms of", "start": 7558.44, "end": 7565.8}, {"text": "uh we've always had concerns about expenses but revenue is also also a tag and the only two sources of re major", "start": 7565.8, "end": 7573.4}, {"text": "sources we have are development charges and property taxes we're walked into that um you uh you mentioned the", "start": 7573.4, "end": 7581.88}, {"text": "province's uh uh desire to uh", "start": 7581.88, "end": 7587.239}, {"text": "effectively lower housing prices uh also", "start": 7587.239, "end": 7592.48}, {"text": "mentioned that they're the only level of government currently that has a land transfer tax U what and I'm asking you", "start": 7592.48, "end": 7600.559}, {"text": "to speculate here but you're probably one of the few people in in in this country who could speculate accurately I", "start": 7600.559, "end": 7607.199}, {"text": "hope uh what would the potential impact be if the provincial government to drop", "start": 7607.199, "end": 7612.88}, {"text": "its land transfer tax on uh on the market would the would the impact be", "start": 7612.88, "end": 7618.84}, {"text": "significant through the chair I appreciate the question from the uh honorable former Minister um and", "start": 7618.84, "end": 7624.639}, {"text": "appreciate you mentioning the the assessment base um Toronto is a completely different world than Hamilton", "start": 7624.639, "end": 7631.079}, {"text": "in terms of um what makes up the base of their assessment and as I mentioned", "start": 7631.079, "end": 7636.4}, {"text": "before um the towers around King and bay downtown um are a massive portion of", "start": 7636.4, "end": 7642.52}, {"text": "that assessment base um with respect to uh provincial policy and and openly", "start": 7642.52, "end": 7649.079}, {"text": "speculating um yeah a good place to start you know the province controls a lot of the", "start": 7649.079, "end": 7655.559}, {"text": "levers that affect the housing market and future housing Supply uh I think we", "start": 7655.559, "end": 7660.92}, {"text": "could all have a healthy debate of the decisions made since the current government was elected in 2018 but uh I", "start": 7660.92, "end": 7667.239}, {"text": "certainly think that there's more that they could do um to uh get their own", "start": 7667.239, "end": 7672.44}, {"text": "house in order um versus simply um impacting Municipal policy um the", "start": 7672.44, "end": 7679.48}, {"text": "province has their own uh land transfer tax uh the province also levies uh HST", "start": 7679.48, "end": 7686.04}, {"text": "on new housing um the HST uh was not previously levied on housing it was", "start": 7686.04, "end": 7691.199}, {"text": "brought in in 200920 the previous PST did not apply to housing that was a massive tax increase", "start": 7691.199, "end": 7698.92}, {"text": "at the time the province brought in a $24,000 maximum rebate up to", "start": 7698.92, "end": 7704.159}, {"text": "$400,000 um that threshold has not been adjusted since 2010 uh despite the cost", "start": 7704.159, "end": 7710.84}, {"text": "or the average price of housing more than doubling since then so there are lots of levers that the province can", "start": 7710.84, "end": 7717.159}, {"text": "pull that impact their own treasury in terms of potential impacts and Taxation on new housing thank you very much and", "start": 7717.159, "end": 7724.199}, {"text": "you'd acknowledge there are fewer levers at at the municipal level the province of Ontario has more", "start": 7724.199, "end": 7731.119}, {"text": "leverage than any other level of government yeah one of the few levers we have is to H jack up property taxes or", "start": 7731.119, "end": 7740.079}, {"text": "development charges or development Char and you know where I stand on that we want we need to be competitive okay", "start": 7740.079, "end": 7746.559}, {"text": "thanks very much I appreciate those are my questions okay there's no more speakers", "start": 7746.559, "end": 7753.48}, {"text": "on the list for questions so Mike thank you for your delegation thank you", "start": 7753.48, "end": 7761.04}, {"text": "next we're going to call Daniel chin Hamilton and District Department Association to come down to this to the", "start": 7764.04, "end": 7772.48}, {"text": "podium welcome Daniel and as you know you have five minutes at the 4minute Mark you will hear a", "start": 7787.84, "end": 7796.159}, {"text": "tone Dustin good morning Mr chair mayor and", "start": 7796.28, "end": 7804.719}, {"text": "members of the general issues committee my name is Daniel chin president of", "start": 7804.719, "end": 7809.84}, {"text": "Hamilton and District Apartment Association I stand before you today and on behalf of HDA to share with you a few", "start": 7809.84, "end": 7818.199}, {"text": "significant concerns regarding council's consideration a for implementing a municipal land transfer tax and similar", "start": 7818.199, "end": 7826.36}, {"text": "to other respective associations here today we too have strong opposition on", "start": 7826.36, "end": 7832.44}, {"text": "this additional tax we know that the city has fiscal challenges to address", "start": 7832.44, "end": 7838.52}, {"text": "its annual deficits we know that the city has increasingly complex challenges", "start": 7838.52, "end": 7844.719}, {"text": "such as tackling homelessness but an additional tax is a bad decision and", "start": 7844.719, "end": 7851}, {"text": "it's not the resolution it will hurt hamiltonians in these challenging and", "start": 7851, "end": 7856.639}, {"text": "uncertain Economic Times when many people are struggling with the increasing cost of living about a decade", "start": 7856.639, "end": 7863.76}, {"text": "ago there were similar discussions wherein the Ontario government ruled against expanding the municipal land", "start": 7863.76, "end": 7870.52}, {"text": "transfer tax Beyond Toronto borders in 2014 alter group economic Consulting did", "start": 7870.52, "end": 7877.639}, {"text": "a study called economic implications of the mun land transfer tax in Toronto and", "start": 7877.639, "end": 7883.52}, {"text": "it indicated the economic losses incurred by Toronto in the time the tax was imposed in 2008 until 2013 were a", "start": 7883.52, "end": 7892.04}, {"text": "loss of 2.6 billion in economic activity a loss of 38,000 278 resale home", "start": 7892.04, "end": 7900.639}, {"text": "transactions and a loss of 15,000 full-time jobs and a loss of", "start": 7900.639, "end": 7907.079}, {"text": "772 million in wages and salaries that means means a municipal land transfer", "start": 7907.079, "end": 7913.4}, {"text": "tax is bad for our economy it kills jobs and it will even make the dream of", "start": 7913.4, "end": 7918.84}, {"text": "homeownership more difficult furthermore it will not help housing affordability", "start": 7918.84, "end": 7925.239}, {"text": "or home buyers in fact it will hurt them it will be more costly for buyers they", "start": 7925.239, "end": 7931.52}, {"text": "will no longer be able to afford they will go to other municipalities to purchase real estate where there is no", "start": 7931.52, "end": 7938.36}, {"text": "such tax and also a Municipal land transfer tax can indirectly impact", "start": 7938.36, "end": 7944.4}, {"text": "rental affordability it leads to higher purchase costs for landlords when acquiring properties and these cses will", "start": 7944.4, "end": 7952.28}, {"text": "be passed on to tenants through higher rents therefore it will dissuade investors from purchasing rental", "start": 7952.28, "end": 7959.119}, {"text": "properties further constrain Supply and drive up rents also current housing", "start": 7959.119, "end": 7966.88}, {"text": "providers are selling and they are getting out of the business an additional cost will prevent people", "start": 7966.88, "end": 7974.639}, {"text": "buying to rent out their property consequently reduced Rental Supply will", "start": 7974.639, "end": 7980.36}, {"text": "mean more homelessness more encampments and more problems therefore unless our", "start": 7980.36, "end": 7987.159}, {"text": "city have priorities and policies that focus on more housing and not more taxes", "start": 7987.159, "end": 7993.48}, {"text": "Hamilton will no longer be an affordable and desirable place to live lastly we", "start": 7993.48, "end": 7999.719}, {"text": "don't have a revenue problem we have a spending problem we need better fiscal management at City Hall in", "start": 7999.719, "end": 8008.76}, {"text": "2024 our city auditor general Charles Brown discovered about 1.2 million in", "start": 8008.76, "end": 8014.239}, {"text": "arrays and Rental losses on Municipal properties which are very unlikely to be recovered and last November 2024", "start": 8014.239, "end": 8021.48}, {"text": "councelor Mike spora made a motion to audit how the city is utilizing the 185", "start": 8021.48, "end": 8027.32}, {"text": "million to address the housing and homelessness problem and councelor Brad Clark said that he would support a five", "start": 8027.32, "end": 8034.28}, {"text": "or 10e audit plan that looks at every single Department to look at at value", "start": 8034.28, "end": 8040}, {"text": "for money and he believes that the auditor would find tremendous amount of savings last but not least there was an", "start": 8040, "end": 8047.079}, {"text": "article yesterday wherein the Hamilton MPP Donna Skelly said if Hamilton wants more funding from her government the", "start": 8047.079, "end": 8053.96}, {"text": "city should demonstrate how it's spending 158 million it approved in 2024", "start": 8053.96, "end": 8059.599}, {"text": "to combat the crisis therefore we need better fiscal management at City Hall for resolving", "start": 8059.599, "end": 8067.04}, {"text": "our annual deficits and we need more transparency in how our taxpayer dollars", "start": 8067.04, "end": 8073.4}, {"text": "are spent in closing the municipal land transfer tax is a bad decision and not", "start": 8073.4, "end": 8079.48}, {"text": "the resolution it will not help housing affordability or home buyers it will hurt them and lastly we don't have a", "start": 8079.48, "end": 8086.8}, {"text": "revenue problem we have a spending problem and we need better fiscal manag management at City Hall for resolving", "start": 8086.8, "end": 8093.239}, {"text": "our annual deficits on behalf of hdaa I strongly urge the mayor and members of", "start": 8093.239, "end": 8098.8}, {"text": "General issue issues committee to vote against all consideration for implementing a municipal land transfer", "start": 8098.8, "end": 8105.88}, {"text": "tax thank you very much for the opportunity and for your time to listening to my delegation", "start": 8105.88, "end": 8112.92}, {"text": "today thank you Daniel I don't see anyone having", "start": 8113.559, "end": 8119.04}, {"text": "questions for you so I appreciate what you've brought to us today thank you and you may take a", "start": 8119.04, "end": 8124.84}, {"text": "seat oh sorry councelor", "start": 8124.84, "end": 8129.598}, {"text": "Pauls thank you sorry I tried to uh get on the speakers list I just wanted to", "start": 8131, "end": 8136.32}, {"text": "ask uh Daniel uh he's the president of uh the district president of Hamilton", "start": 8136.32, "end": 8142.04}, {"text": "Apartment Association how long has he's had that", "start": 8142.04, "end": 8147.28}, {"text": "position this would be through the chair to councelor Pauls it will be my second", "start": 8147.599, "end": 8155.079}, {"text": "year okay that's great and have you seen a change in last two years or where were", "start": 8155.079, "end": 8161.079}, {"text": "you where were you at before did you always live in", "start": 8161.079, "end": 8166.119}, {"text": "Hamilton through the chair to councelor Paul I have lived in Hamilton since", "start": 8166.119, "end": 8172.76}, {"text": "2014 that's great and you said you've been uh uh uh the president for the last", "start": 8173.96, "end": 8179.239}, {"text": "two years and uh so you you um have you", "start": 8179.239, "end": 8185.639}, {"text": "seen a change from two years ago even to now the pressures of what's", "start": 8185.639, "end": 8191.679}, {"text": "happening through the chair to councelor Paul when you say pressures with regards", "start": 8191.679, "end": 8198.439}, {"text": "to the subject matter today housing and regarding uh the rent and you said", "start": 8198.44, "end": 8204.638}, {"text": "something about we're killing jobs uh we're killing entrepreneurship we're killing investment have you seen the", "start": 8204.639, "end": 8211.2}, {"text": "last two years going down through the chair to councilor Paul", "start": 8211.2, "end": 8217.399}, {"text": "the city of Hamilton needs to take Serious action to", "start": 8217.4, "end": 8222.439}, {"text": "improve all situations that are very concerning and unless we do so I think", "start": 8222.44, "end": 8231.2}, {"text": "this city we will no longer have a city so it actually is going", "start": 8231.2, "end": 8237.24}, {"text": "down I'm just wondering for investment and all that do you you see people trying not to invest in Hamilton be if", "start": 8237.479, "end": 8244.2}, {"text": "we put this land transfer tax especially developers Builders will they invest", "start": 8244.2, "end": 8250.399}, {"text": "somewhere else through the chair to councelor", "start": 8250.4, "end": 8258.679}, {"text": "Paul Hamilton is starting to become very very unsafe and I believe there's a delegate", "start": 8259.12, "end": 8266.598}, {"text": "later today Andrew Selman who would speak about the encampment situation but it is starting to become very unsafe", "start": 8266.599, "end": 8273.24}, {"text": "where our public parks are uh becoming very dangerous but", "start": 8273.24, "end": 8278.719}, {"text": "investors investors are selling their properties the small mom and pop", "start": 8278.719, "end": 8284.04}, {"text": "landlords are being affected greatly and they're selling their", "start": 8284.04, "end": 8289.84}, {"text": "properties thank you for that and thank you for uh uh we're happy that you are", "start": 8289.84, "end": 8294.92}, {"text": "the president and there you can uh uh Enlighten us a little bit what's going on in our city thank you", "start": 8294.92, "end": 8301.678}, {"text": "thank you councelor Pauls and Daniel we have one more speaker and it's the mayor", "start": 8301.679, "end": 8306.8}, {"text": "uh thanks very much uh Mr chair uh through you to Daniel um who I have a", "start": 8306.8, "end": 8311.84}, {"text": "question for uh Daniel are you aware of the growth in the", "start": 8311.84, "end": 8316.96}, {"text": "um non-residential tax base that we are having as a city for the first time in", "start": 8316.96, "end": 8322.518}, {"text": "many many many many years speaking to kind of the point that counselor mcmein", "start": 8322.519, "end": 8327.558}, {"text": "was Raising that we need to get those ratios figured out in fact in a couple weeks time we're actually turning sought", "start": 8327.559, "end": 8333.719}, {"text": "at the Fulfillment center for Ikea we've had a number of major employers and", "start": 8333.719, "end": 8338.88}, {"text": "businesses set up shop in Hamilton do you see that as part of uh the solution to our fiscal", "start": 8338.88, "end": 8347.04}, {"text": "challenges through the chair to our mayor I believe I did actually read uh", "start": 8348.519, "end": 8356.16}, {"text": "the news when Ikea was uh thinking about having a location in Hamilton and I see", "start": 8356.16, "end": 8361.399}, {"text": "that as a good thing thank you I would say that um I", "start": 8361.4, "end": 8368.76}, {"text": "would ask though that if you are aware that for the first time we've had a higher increase in the commercial", "start": 8368.76, "end": 8375.12}, {"text": "industrial uh tax rate taxes that we're pulling in than uh the", "start": 8375.12, "end": 8381.399}, {"text": "residential uh are you aware of that I um through the chair to our mayor", "start": 8381.4, "end": 8389.12}, {"text": "I am aware that there are I believe higher um uh taxes when it comes to", "start": 8389.12, "end": 8396.64}, {"text": "multi-residential no I'm talking about the difference between the increase in", "start": 8396.64, "end": 8402.08}, {"text": "revenues that the city is able to realize from the property taxes at the", "start": 8402.08, "end": 8408.24}, {"text": "residential regardless of the class uh as well versus the increase in revenues", "start": 8408.24, "end": 8415.08}, {"text": "that the city is able to receive from the commercial industrial tax and I I", "start": 8415.08, "end": 8420.16}, {"text": "say this because I don't think people are aware of that and it's important for folks not only in this room but in", "start": 8420.16, "end": 8425.28}, {"text": "Hamilton to be aware of that because it speaks to the issue that Council me raised around the ratio of uh of how", "start": 8425.28, "end": 8433.12}, {"text": "much uh our and we don't we can't run operating deficits just by the way we can't we can't run operating deficits", "start": 8433.12, "end": 8439.16}, {"text": "that's not something so the term deficit when it comes to our City's operating budget is actually not accurate so just", "start": 8439.16, "end": 8445.76}, {"text": "for your information but what I wanted what I'm trying to get at is if in Toronto which is often used as", "start": 8445.76, "end": 8452.24}, {"text": "an example in terms of the difference between property tax uh uh costs for a a house of similar value in Toronto for", "start": 8452.24, "end": 8459.56}, {"text": "example in Hamilton in Toronto it's about 5050 50% of their revenue to pay", "start": 8459.56, "end": 8464.84}, {"text": "for their operating budget comes from commercial industrial and 50% from residential that's a healthy ratio", "start": 8464.84, "end": 8471.72}, {"text": "overall I think the um and and I can be corrected by any of the folks including yourself if if you if I'm misspeaking in", "start": 8471.72, "end": 8478.28}, {"text": "this uh regard my understanding is overall a healthy ratio is 6040 60", "start": 8478.28, "end": 8485.92}, {"text": "residential 40 commercial industrial our Revenue uh mix for property taxes is", "start": 8485.92, "end": 8496.439}, {"text": "86% residential and only 14% commercial", "start": 8496.439, "end": 8501.72}, {"text": "industrial so it's an unhealthy ratio so one of the things that this council is trying to do is attract uh more", "start": 8501.72, "end": 8508.52}, {"text": "commercial and Industrial um investment uh to be able to try to uh deal with one", "start": 8508.52, "end": 8513.8}, {"text": "of the structural problems that we have in terms of our revenue streams were you aware of any of those", "start": 8513.8, "end": 8520.92}, {"text": "pieces through the chair to our mayor what I am aware and what I can say", "start": 8520.92, "end": 8529.72}, {"text": "is there is a lot of uh commercial investments in the city of Hamilton uh", "start": 8529.72, "end": 8537.72}, {"text": "we did have a nor schan from from the economic development uh uh was a guest", "start": 8537.72, "end": 8543.56}, {"text": "speaker at one of our dinner meetings last year and spoke about uh the many projects and I do see that as a very", "start": 8543.56, "end": 8549.76}, {"text": "good thing for Hamilton but presently it is very very concerning uh on the", "start": 8549.76, "end": 8555.56}, {"text": "residential side where people are starting to feel very very unsafe in the city and uh that has to be addressed uh", "start": 8555.56, "end": 8563.24}, {"text": "immediately and can that be addressed without any financing like how do you address how do", "start": 8563.24, "end": 8568.72}, {"text": "you address these kinds of challenges without um investing in the solutions", "start": 8568.72, "end": 8574.28}, {"text": "can you can you give us any ideas ISS all right through through order", "start": 8574.28, "end": 8582.28}, {"text": "please through the chair to our mayor uh as mentioned there was an article", "start": 8582.28, "end": 8589.16}, {"text": "yesterday where where MPP uh Donna Skelly", "start": 8589.16, "end": 8594.359}, {"text": "mentioned um to really show how the money is being spent and then", "start": 8594.359, "end": 8601.52}, {"text": "uh you know they will cons well I thank you for that and I did uh I did see that article and I'll be speaking actually to", "start": 8601.52, "end": 8608.8}, {"text": "the uh standing committee on Finance in their budget consultations tomorrow um", "start": 8608.8, "end": 8614.08}, {"text": "and that I'm looking forward to that one of the things I think that um needs to be uh reiterated again it comes from the", "start": 8614.08, "end": 8621.2}, {"text": "conversation that uh councelor mcmein was having with um uh with Mike uh with", "start": 8621.2, "end": 8627.08}, {"text": "um um Mike West home builders representative um and that is that the", "start": 8627.08, "end": 8634.76}, {"text": "tools the financial tools that exist at the provincial order of government are massive when it comes to income", "start": 8634.76, "end": 8642.16}, {"text": "redistribution housing uh supports for people who are living on the streets which nobody wants to see including", "start": 8642.16, "end": 8648.56}, {"text": "myself and nobody around this table um that kind of those kinds of fiscal", "start": 8648.56, "end": 8654.76}, {"text": "resources factually belong at the provincial order of government they don't belong on the property tax space I", "start": 8654.76, "end": 8660.76}, {"text": "think everybody in this room agrees with that they don't belong on property taxes and so the question for you is did you", "start": 8660.76, "end": 8668.359}, {"text": "realize that that is in fact the case that the uh property tax base should not", "start": 8668.359, "end": 8674.56}, {"text": "have any of these dollars on it and in fact it's the provincial government's", "start": 8674.56, "end": 8680.04}, {"text": "responsibility uh legislatively structurally as a as the way our countryes operates overall the", "start": 8680.04, "end": 8686.72}, {"text": "provincial order of government has that responsibility and they have the money and so my question to you is have you", "start": 8686.72, "end": 8693.12}, {"text": "ever asked the provincial government why they think that the property taxpayers of Ontario should be paying or the", "start": 8693.12, "end": 8699.64}, {"text": "property taxpayers of Any Given Province for that matter through the chair to councelor", "start": 8699.64, "end": 8706.399}, {"text": "Mayor I am a resident of Hamilton I think that question you would have to ask provincial I'll be doing that I just", "start": 8706.399, "end": 8714.2}, {"text": "thank you I appreciate your cander there because that's exactly that's exactly", "start": 8714.2, "end": 8719.439}, {"text": "one of the questions I will be asking on behalf of uh the council but on behalf of the city of Hamilton residents uh and", "start": 8719.439, "end": 8725.319}, {"text": "all of the people in this chamber today and folks who are watching because that's the Crux of the matter um", "start": 8725.319, "end": 8730.359}, {"text": "respectfully thanks very much and thank you mayor uh Daniel for the second time thanks for your delegation and you may", "start": 8730.359, "end": 8736.399}, {"text": "take a seat oh sorry sorry sorry stay here we've just had a late edition uh", "start": 8736.399, "end": 8742.439}, {"text": "councelor M Wilson please have your questions thank you thank you for your", "start": 8742.439, "end": 8748.2}, {"text": "delegation and for uh participating today um I just wanted to maybe reframe", "start": 8748.2, "end": 8753.76}, {"text": "if I could just so I understand your answer um and I'll pose the question", "start": 8753.76, "end": 8761.279}, {"text": "this way um were you", "start": 8761.279, "end": 8766.72}, {"text": "aware that long-term care social", "start": 8766.72, "end": 8772.88}, {"text": "housing land ambulance and over 30% I believe of", "start": 8772.88, "end": 8779.24}, {"text": "Public Health is paid for um from property taxes in Ontario and that we", "start": 8779.24, "end": 8785.319}, {"text": "are the only province in the Federation to demand", "start": 8785.319, "end": 8791.16}, {"text": "that through the chair to councelor Wi Wilson what I what I am aware of is last", "start": 8791.2, "end": 8799.88}, {"text": "year for 2024 budget was passed at 5.79% which where the city collected", "start": 8799.88, "end": 8807.279}, {"text": "about 2.4 or probably 2.6 that wasn't my question respectfully are you aware are", "start": 8807.279, "end": 8813.8}, {"text": "you aware delate it is projected to increase", "start": 8813.8, "end": 8819.68}, {"text": "6.9% which is much more than last year and I believe this Council has the", "start": 8819.68, "end": 8826.399}, {"text": "powers to allocate those funds accordingly councelor Wilson thank you", "start": 8826.399, "end": 8833.12}, {"text": "so I'm going to take the answer to be no you were not aware that the province of", "start": 8833.12, "end": 8839.64}, {"text": "onar is unique in the Federation of requiring municipalities to pay for", "start": 8839.64, "end": 8846.84}, {"text": "social housing long-term care land ambulance and a significant portion of", "start": 8846.84, "end": 8852.96}, {"text": "Public Health thank you Daniel do you have an answer or last", "start": 8852.96, "end": 8863.239}, {"text": "comment through the chair no comment okay Daniel listen so for the third time", "start": 8863.6, "end": 8869.64}, {"text": "thank you for coming to here today and and sharing your information thank you very", "start": 8869.64, "end": 8876.319}, {"text": "much may order please when I used to be a", "start": 8877, "end": 8883.04}, {"text": "teacher I'd put my hand up and the class would just go silent because they know", "start": 8883.04, "end": 8888.12}, {"text": "they'd miss out on recess time um may I please have a mover in a seconder to receive the delegations on this matter", "start": 8888.12, "end": 8895}, {"text": "councelor mcmein councelor casar we're g to all in", "start": 8895, "end": 8900.479}, {"text": "favor vote uh with a vote of hands looks like that's unanimous thank", "start": 8900.479, "end": 8907.16}, {"text": "you that vote was carried now members of committee please", "start": 8907.16, "end": 8915.24}, {"text": "note that due to the volume of comments received on item 7.4 fcs2", "start": 8915.24, "end": 8922}, {"text": "422a additional correspondence will be included on the January 22nd 2025", "start": 8922, "end": 8927.6}, {"text": "Council agenda and that closes this we're moving on now", "start": 8927.6, "end": 8933.12}, {"text": "to 6.2 another delegation and this delegation is Alex Sears respecting", "start": 8933.12, "end": 8939.72}, {"text": "things from the Cyber attack and Alex is here in person I believe", "start": 8939.72, "end": 8948.64}, {"text": "Alex and as I look around and seeing many people stand up Alex raise your", "start": 8956.68, "end": 8962}, {"text": "hand if you're here and come on", "start": 8962, "end": 8966.04}, {"text": "down so through the deputy mayor uh maybe we could uh recall Alex at the end", "start": 8974.76, "end": 8979.96}, {"text": "of all delegations if Alex doesn't seem to be with us at this moment thank you so much thank", "start": 8979.96, "end": 8985.92}, {"text": "you so we'll go to 6.3", "start": 8985.92, "end": 8991}, {"text": "Andrew Selman respecting Gage Park electricity theft the continued criminal presence and the lack of City auditing", "start": 8991, "end": 8997.64}, {"text": "processes that allow tunnels to be dug and operate and I believe Andrew is here", "start": 8997.64, "end": 9003.359}, {"text": "in person Andrew if you're here thank you thank you", "start": 9003.359, "end": 9011.6}, {"text": "Andrew Andrew you have five", "start": 9011.96, "end": 9015.76}, {"text": "minutes so you may carry on thank you very much good afternoon Deputy Mayor Madame mayor members of council and", "start": 9018.96, "end": 9025.96}, {"text": "those in Chambers today first off I just want to thank everyone for being here today we have a highly engaged set of", "start": 9025.96, "end": 9032.16}, {"text": "citizens here today asking good questions um and seeing some great Civic engagement so I thank everyone for that", "start": 9032.16, "end": 9039.439}, {"text": "now my name is Andrew Selman I'm a resident uh that lives down by Gage Park is previously stated and I I've", "start": 9039.439, "end": 9045.319}, {"text": "certainly been here before to talk about Gage Park in the encampments now one the things that I", "start": 9045.319, "end": 9050.479}, {"text": "want to say is you know we've heard the promises regarding gagee Park and the other encampments we've seen the plans and yet here we are no progress no", "start": 9050.479, "end": 9057.76}, {"text": "improvement and let's be honest that's not good enough for me and it's not good enough for my neighbors the consensus is", "start": 9057.76, "end": 9063.76}, {"text": "clear the encampment protocol should Sunset immediately and the tents should be removed during daylight hours we want", "start": 9063.76, "end": 9071.279}, {"text": "our Parks back we're sick of the needles the drugs the fires the explosions and", "start": 9071.279, "end": 9078.16}, {"text": "the electricity theft in gagee park that's still happening in the week since our last discussion I've had a chance to speak", "start": 9078.16, "end": 9084.8}, {"text": "with people of all walks of life friends neighbors and strangers they've all shared their", "start": 9084.8, "end": 9091.08}, {"text": "frustrations their stories and what's clear is this the people of the city deserve better than the status", "start": 9091.08, "end": 9097.88}, {"text": "quo let's talk about the micr shelter project now I understand the intent here it's to provide relief to address a", "start": 9097.88, "end": 9104.92}, {"text": "growing crisis but intent isn't good enough in good intentions don't excuse", "start": 9104.92, "end": 9111}, {"text": "poor execution and right now this project is Raising more questions than", "start": 9111, "end": 9117.92}, {"text": "answers now we know the the site is not suitable it's beyond policy the proposed", "start": 9117.92, "end": 9124.319}, {"text": "location is fundamentally wrong placing a low barrier site in close proximity to", "start": 9124.319, "end": 9130.52}, {"text": "a residential neighborhood a grade school in areas where children walk daily is an invitation for conflict and", "start": 9130.52, "end": 9138.08}, {"text": "risk parents shouldn't have to worry about their children's safety walking to school neighbors shouldn't have to worry", "start": 9138.08, "end": 9144.359}, {"text": "about escalating crime discarded needles or hazards spilling into their", "start": 9144.359, "end": 9150}, {"text": "community and most importantly this is not an environment that promotes recovery or stability for those we're", "start": 9150, "end": 9156.08}, {"text": "trying to help we must find a new location that balances accessibility for the vulnerable while protecting the", "start": 9156.08, "end": 9161.92}, {"text": "well-being of the neighborhood this is not a not in my backyard argument this is about finding a location that works", "start": 9161.92, "end": 9168}, {"text": "for everyone the current site fails to meet that standard now the low barrier approach", "start": 9168, "end": 9174.88}, {"text": "we've talked about this here before and I learned about the approach right here in these Chambers uh", "start": 9174.88, "end": 9181.439}, {"text": "myself when I shared what this approach means with my neighbors people I talk to", "start": 9181.439, "end": 9186.56}, {"text": "on the street it was unanimous shock disbelief and disappointment because let's call it", "start": 9186.56, "end": 9192.92}, {"text": "what it is it's a continuation of the issues that we see in Gage Park or Bayfront Park we're going to see the stolen property we're going to see the", "start": 9192.92, "end": 9199.439}, {"text": "drugs we're going to see the scrap metal all at the sanctioned encampment site", "start": 9199.439, "end": 9204.6}, {"text": "this approach doesn't fix those issues it enables them and that's not a policy", "start": 9204.6, "end": 9210.2}, {"text": "it's a d eltion of Duty I ask what is the exit strategy", "start": 9210.2, "end": 9215.56}, {"text": "from the micr shelter project this is not being addressed what's the timeline the people living next to the planned", "start": 9215.56, "end": 9221.6}, {"text": "micr shelter site the ones that are going to be dealing with the noise the safety concerns the disruption they have", "start": 9221.6, "end": 9228.04}, {"text": "a right to know how long this project is planned for we've asked we've asked a lot of these residents too much in fact", "start": 9228.04, "end": 9236.399}, {"text": "W one is W one and W two have borne the brunt of this crisis while waiting for solutions that never seem to come they", "start": 9236.399, "end": 9243.04}, {"text": "deserve better now Madame mayor asked about uh", "start": 9243.04, "end": 9248.279}, {"text": "the previous speaker Mr Chen if you had spoke with the premier who or knows their approach on this I have spoke to", "start": 9248.279, "end": 9254.68}, {"text": "the premere you asked what is what the provincial government's approach was", "start": 9254.68, "end": 9260.68}, {"text": "in regards to spending I have talked to the premier about spending about this site specifically so let's talk about", "start": 9260.68, "end": 9266.08}, {"text": "the vendor we picked the company point of order chair mayor uh I I didn't actually ask", "start": 9266.08, "end": 9272.84}, {"text": "the questions that the presenter is uh referring to but I do appreciate uh the where he's going with that and would", "start": 9272.84, "end": 9278.439}, {"text": "like to hear the rest of his presentation thank you sure so I think mayor Premier Ford shares the same", "start": 9278.439, "end": 9284.479}, {"text": "concerns that myself and my neighbors share we picked a company that was created just weeks before the tender was put in", "start": 9284.479, "end": 9290.64}, {"text": "they were awarded a major contract with no history in this business they've never provided shelters anywhere was", "start": 9290.64, "end": 9296.72}, {"text": "there a process because if there was it doesn't look good and if there wasn't well that's a whole other problem", "start": 9296.72, "end": 9302.56}, {"text": "transparency isn't a luxury in government it's a requirement taxpayers deserve to know who's making these", "start": 9302.56, "end": 9309.439}, {"text": "decisions and why they were made we deserve to know why our money is being spent in this manner and if it's being", "start": 9309.439, "end": 9315.8}, {"text": "spent wisely cuz right now trust is in short supply I think we all know that we", "start": 9315.8, "end": 9321.479}, {"text": "spent 35,000 per shelter plus plus plus for shelters that appear for resale for", "start": 9321.479, "end": 9327.72}, {"text": "about $2,000 directly from the retailer I found it myself we deserve the facts", "start": 9327.72, "end": 9333.2}, {"text": "before you asked us to pay more tax now this is a toxic site Andrew", "start": 9333.2, "end": 9338.72}, {"text": "that's time but can you just close it up in the next 15 seconds maybe 30 to 45", "start": 9338.72, "end": 9344.279}, {"text": "I'll give you 30 appreciate it so it's a toxic site shelters made overseas in China with unknown materials and", "start": 9344.279, "end": 9349.64}, {"text": "unverified standards is this really the best we can do is this how we take care of the most vulnerable members of our", "start": 9349.64, "end": 9355.6}, {"text": "community I don't think so we're not just feeling those who need help we're putting ourselves at risk and let's be", "start": 9355.6, "end": 9362.64}, {"text": "clear when the lawsuits start piling up in regards to the site when the costs start to come in we can't say we didn't", "start": 9362.64, "end": 9367.8}, {"text": "see it coming this is a mess let's be honest about that what matters not is", "start": 9367.8, "end": 9373.8}, {"text": "that mess but it's how we respond to it preserve the records study the failures and I agree I think we can all GED we've", "start": 9373.8, "end": 9380.04}, {"text": "seen failures here the snow's flown there's no one at the site we failed that timeline Miss mayor Andrew I'm going to end it there", "start": 9380.04, "end": 9387.64}, {"text": "thank you for your thank you for your sharing thanks for your feedback thanks for your concerns thanks for your", "start": 9387.64, "end": 9393.439}, {"text": "opinions okay appreciate it do we have any questions I don't see any here I I doubt I doubt it okay listen thank you", "start": 9393.439, "end": 9400.359}, {"text": "Andrew for coming in today take care", "start": 9400.359, "end": 9404.841}, {"text": "okay we're moving to 6.4 no just a motion to receive please first oh sorry sorry sorry we're going", "start": 9409.72, "end": 9418.16}, {"text": "to yeah I need a move in a second to receive Andrew's", "start": 9418.16, "end": 9423.359}, {"text": "delegation councelor Bey counselor spora and we'll do this with a show of hands", "start": 9423.359, "end": 9429.16}, {"text": "all in favor thank you that vote was", "start": 9429.16, "end": 9435.88}, {"text": "carried we're going to go to delegations respecting item 9 9.2 resending of the", "start": 9435.88, "end": 9441.439}, {"text": "city of Hamilton encampment protocol from the following individuals um this is a note to", "start": 9441.439, "end": 9447.359}, {"text": "committee we will take one vote at the end to receive all delegations on this matter and our first Speaker here is Don", "start": 9447.359, "end": 9455.52}, {"text": "Grant who is in person and thank you Don and you can", "start": 9455.52, "end": 9460.88}, {"text": "come down and you will have a tone sound at four minutes which will give you one minute left for a total of five minutes", "start": 9460.88, "end": 9468.279}, {"text": "thank you", "start": 9468.279, "end": 9471.439}, {"text": "do I begin you may begin all right I wanted to say good morning and thank everybody", "start": 9479.279, "end": 9485.2}, {"text": "for giving me the opportunity to speak today there's so much going on and I'm not going to pretend to know the facts", "start": 9485.2, "end": 9491.96}, {"text": "and details of all the taxes and everything that we've spoken about I come today to speak about the community", "start": 9491.96, "end": 9499.279}, {"text": "and and to speak from the community to begin I want us to acknowledge the fact", "start": 9499.279, "end": 9505}, {"text": "that we are all on indigenous lands every time we come together particularly in the government we give words towards", "start": 9505, "end": 9512.08}, {"text": "this and we say it and it needs to be remembered as we talk about how our property is going out as we talk about", "start": 9512.08, "end": 9518.88}, {"text": "how we're addressing the community the point of the matter is that the community of Hamilton is Settlers on", "start": 9518.88, "end": 9526.04}, {"text": "this land as well and as what was just said it doesn't appear that the elected", "start": 9526.04, "end": 9532.279}, {"text": "officials right here are speaking for the community of what's going on there's a lot going on and I'm going to actually", "start": 9532.279, "end": 9539.04}, {"text": "bring this towards our mayor Andrea horbath I read last week you had said", "start": 9539.04, "end": 9545.479}, {"text": "that you were working with the CN rail in reference to all the housing that is", "start": 9545.479, "end": 9551.439}, {"text": "at Bayfront that situation really shines light onto something that you just said", "start": 9551.439, "end": 9557.24}, {"text": "that there's so much property taxes that are going on to fuel the help of our community but it seems like there's", "start": 9557.24, "end": 9563.16}, {"text": "almost a separation between what's going on with the property the econom the", "start": 9563.16, "end": 9570.08}, {"text": "economic development and what's going on with the people at hand why are we making shelters that will only give", "start": 9570.08, "end": 9576.68}, {"text": "about 80 beds when there is so much housing there I've read what their", "start": 9576.68, "end": 9582.439}, {"text": "problem was they said it was noise listening to someone talk about what's going on at Gage Park and I agree I have", "start": 9582.439, "end": 9588.68}, {"text": "young children that access the parks as well so then therefore were you guys creating these little outside shelters", "start": 9588.68, "end": 9595.479}, {"text": "when you actually have homes that could be used that you've taken the time and", "start": 9595.479, "end": 9601.6}, {"text": "the money to remove the roofs and the doors from instead of smartly addressing", "start": 9601.6, "end": 9606.68}, {"text": "it the interesting thing about housing is it rounds itself in a circle that's why it actually creates a lot of the", "start": 9606.68, "end": 9613.52}, {"text": "problems that leave those under under those poverished situations from", "start": 9613.52, "end": 9620.439}, {"text": "loitering or so on there's a lot of stuff just to say that it stays within it because the way it's shaped there is", "start": 9620.439, "end": 9626.6}, {"text": "no reason why one in five houses couldn't have been used better by", "start": 9626.6, "end": 9631.64}, {"text": "putting officials in there to deal with crisis for putting your policing officials in there if you wanted to do", "start": 9631.64, "end": 9637.8}, {"text": "it but it's not to say that that money couldn't have been spent better that that situation couldn't have been dress", "start": 9637.8, "end": 9643.72}, {"text": "better I'm going to go past that I take the bus every day and I get on the next", "start": 9643.72, "end": 9649.72}, {"text": "bus by Jackson Square last year our mayor also put in the newspaper that she", "start": 9649.72, "end": 9654.76}, {"text": "was disappointed in the way that Hamilton City Hall had been used for", "start": 9654.76, "end": 9660}, {"text": "training and that it could have been used better to address the homeless to and that was last winter we let a whole", "start": 9660, "end": 9668}, {"text": "year go by and we did nothing to funnel some money or even to work with the", "start": 9668, "end": 9673.72}, {"text": "developers to say hey what can we do so it seems like right now yes there is a", "start": 9673.72, "end": 9680.479}, {"text": "lot of funds coming in from commercials and economic development but that development is not doing anything to", "start": 9680.479, "end": 9688.16}, {"text": "help us as a community down low it is not right that you guys want to make", "start": 9688.16, "end": 9693.76}, {"text": "shelters when there are buildings that could house the situations that could put the right people inside there and", "start": 9693.76, "end": 9700.96}, {"text": "we're talking about Ridiculousness my children are 10 and8 I was doing math with them yesterday and we were talking", "start": 9700.96, "end": 9707.6}, {"text": "about 30 apples and if you had six people and how we would make sure that everybody got some of that Apple", "start": 9707.6, "end": 9714.56}, {"text": "Hamilton has over 1,500 homeless people over that we have", "start": 9714.56, "end": 9720.16}, {"text": "from my calculations from what I read it's 556 beds I'm probably not correct on that but the point of the matter is", "start": 9720.16, "end": 9726.6}, {"text": "it's not even reaching half of the number and our discussion is on Band-Aids instead of really dealing with", "start": 9726.6, "end": 9734.24}, {"text": "real situations and real possibilities it's not as if this doesn't exist it's a around us but we seem to be tapped in to", "start": 9734.24, "end": 9743.12}, {"text": "the fact that a small majority of people are speaking for the large community of", "start": 9743.12, "end": 9749.56}, {"text": "Hamilton and you guys are no longer speaking for us you are causing our homes our residential spatials to go", "start": 9749.56, "end": 9756.6}, {"text": "down and beyond that when I walk in the morning and I see those people there's not one of them that isn't sad there's", "start": 9756.6, "end": 9763.6}, {"text": "not one of them that isn't distraught we talk about drugs Canada has an opiate", "start": 9763.6, "end": 9768.76}, {"text": "problem there are a comparable amount of people doing drugs in their home and", "start": 9768.76, "end": 9773.92}, {"text": "right now because of the econ economic problems you're going to see a lot more of those people falling from the comfort", "start": 9773.92, "end": 9780.52}, {"text": "of their homes and the shelters into the situations where we're not addressing them these seem like very silly efforts", "start": 9780.52, "end": 9787.76}, {"text": "for big issues where you know what if the community I feel like as a community", "start": 9787.76, "end": 9793.24}, {"text": "if there weren't all these red tapes we could address it right now it seems like What's Happening Here is preventing us", "start": 9793.24, "end": 9798.96}, {"text": "from from a community from really being able to address this situation and there are smart brainy things that could be do", "start": 9798.96, "end": 9806.84}, {"text": "that could be done to access what's already available to us thank you very much Don thank", "start": 9806.84, "end": 9814.358}, {"text": "you any mayor are you no okay so thank you there's no more qu there's no", "start": 9816.12, "end": 9822}, {"text": "questions for you but I appreciate that you've come down and spent the time no problem can I just finish one word I", "start": 9822, "end": 9827.12}, {"text": "think that when our mayor I I I can't let you do that because you have to speak through me and we have a all right", "start": 9827.12, "end": 9833.399}, {"text": "we have a certain order we have to but but counselor Paul's is waving frantically to speak to you so we're", "start": 9833.399, "end": 9838.88}, {"text": "going to let her have some questions counselor your questions thank you for for noticing I'm", "start": 9838.88, "end": 9846}, {"text": "trying to type in my question thing here um I I want to thank you for coming", "start": 9846, "end": 9851.6}, {"text": "first of all for your passion and uh for really showing your compassion towards", "start": 9851.6, "end": 9857.08}, {"text": "uh the homelessness so I really want to thank you for that but I like what you said you said we should get maybe more", "start": 9857.08, "end": 9864.279}, {"text": "developer Builders I think it's such a great idea and I think we we want to we", "start": 9864.279, "end": 9870.319}, {"text": "as a city need to do that uh to get Builders and developer to help us I know", "start": 9870.319, "end": 9878.84}, {"text": "that I know few of them that are willing to do that and help so I just want to say thank you to you for coming and for", "start": 9878.84, "end": 9885.2}, {"text": "showing compassion and giving us more ideas which which I think uh we we want", "start": 9885.2, "end": 9890.68}, {"text": "to that's what we want to have and I agree with you 100% so thank you for", "start": 9890.68, "end": 9895.88}, {"text": "coming can I respond to her quickly councelor Paul was there a question there yeah the question is thank you for", "start": 9895.88, "end": 9902.96}, {"text": "saying that we need to get developers and Builders opening counselor balls", "start": 9902.96, "end": 9908.24}, {"text": "okay all right we're done then I guess okay thank you so much thank you so much all", "start": 9908.24, "end": 9914}, {"text": "right our next delegate is I'm going to say Ralph", "start": 9917.56, "end": 9924.08}, {"text": "beijan did I get that right Ralph okay very good comes with the teaching", "start": 9924.08, "end": 9932.92}, {"text": "background um okay Ralph again you have five", "start": 9932.92, "end": 9941.56}, {"text": "minutes and when you begin that's when we'll start the timer okay no problem we", "start": 9941.56, "end": 9947.68}, {"text": "can just scroll through the m", "start": 9947.68, "end": 9950.92}, {"text": "saying that uh the needs of the unsheltered not lost on me it breaks my heart to see this uh as I have watched", "start": 9954.92, "end": 9961.08}, {"text": "the second illegal encampment behind my home grow in size as construction continues it seems pretty obvious to me", "start": 9961.08, "end": 9966.96}, {"text": "that they were if they were relocated quickly it would be less impactful to them as they would have not settled in", "start": 9966.96, "end": 9973.52}, {"text": "and built a long-term shelter but it would have to start all over again so if we truly care we should be moving them", "start": 9973.52, "end": 9978.68}, {"text": "along quicker if they're in an illegal spot rather than waiting for 3 months for this to", "start": 9978.68, "end": 9983.8}, {"text": "happen um moving on to that I did go neighbor to neighbor and along my area", "start": 9983.8, "end": 9989.6}, {"text": "by Strawberry Hill area and we got a petition signed I talked to 63 people 61 signed the petition one was so angry", "start": 9989.6, "end": 9996.64}, {"text": "with the situation they just want they didn't want anything to do with it they don't want to help them at all and one person uh wants the provincial", "start": 9996.64, "end": 10003.279}, {"text": "government to step in so they didn't want to sign but out of the people I talked to 61 out of 63", "start": 10003.279, "end": 10009.2}, {"text": "so here as I collected the petition signatures for support for item 9.2 there were a lot of comments and", "start": 10009.2, "end": 10015.12}, {"text": "concerns brought forward so I'm going to bring them forward on behalf of the petition signers one family had the", "start": 10015.12, "end": 10020.8}, {"text": "occupant of the encampment behind their home walk along the fence line that separates their home from the Ravine", "start": 10020.8, "end": 10026.64}, {"text": "this is a bit of a climb so not an easy feat their son was outside playing he got scared and no longer wants to no", "start": 10026.64, "end": 10033.319}, {"text": "longer feel safe in his own backyard this saddened me many people said they to enjoy", "start": 10033.319, "end": 10039.359}, {"text": "walking their dog along the city path in the Green Space of the Ravine they no longer go there because of all the", "start": 10039.359, "end": 10044.399}, {"text": "garbage presence of needles and the feeling of insecurity due to the encampments in the wooded area behind", "start": 10044.399, "end": 10049.68}, {"text": "their home I personally used to take my daughter for nature walks along the path", "start": 10049.68, "end": 10055.76}, {"text": "in the Ravine there's a bridge that goes over the creek we looked at we brought a bag with us to collect a little bit of", "start": 10055.76, "end": 10061.68}, {"text": "garbage that was on the ground and we taught my daughter to respect her neighborhood respect nature look at the", "start": 10061.68, "end": 10067.88}, {"text": "bugs and the trees and the plants the fish in the creek it was some of my Fondest Memories of my daughter's", "start": 10067.88, "end": 10073.479}, {"text": "childhood I know today I would not take her down to the Ravine and do those things cu the green space is no place", "start": 10073.479, "end": 10080.6}, {"text": "for a child at this time right now the landscape has changed a lot of parents had concerns", "start": 10080.6, "end": 10086.359}, {"text": "about their children exploring and playing in the Ravine due to the area due to the danger of stepping on a needle when our children are no longer", "start": 10086.359, "end": 10093.6}, {"text": "safe to play in green spaces we need to change some Direction people who live in the being", "start": 10093.6, "end": 10099.279}, {"text": "lot all felt their backyard was no longer private they keep their blinds closed", "start": 10099.279, "end": 10104.319}, {"text": "they do not use their backyard freely as they thought that their privacy has been been lost they lock their Gates they", "start": 10104.319, "end": 10110.76}, {"text": "lock their sheds and they have a general feeling of uneasiness I also have concerns about", "start": 10110.76, "end": 10116.279}, {"text": "the environment where's the human waste going in the nearby Creek perhaps it has", "start": 10116.279, "end": 10121.52}, {"text": "to go somewhere the wooded area is under attack the occupants behind my home have been chopping wood at a feverish rate", "start": 10121.52, "end": 10128.12}, {"text": "since September since November 23rd 2024 when this encampment was first identified and the second one we've", "start": 10128.12, "end": 10134.479}, {"text": "had and concerns were raised there has been damage to our", "start": 10134.479, "end": 10139.56}, {"text": "wooded area that would take years to repair not to mention the increased cost of cleanup as we delay and responding to", "start": 10139.56, "end": 10145.96}, {"text": "this once again it would be less impactful to the unsheltered let me turn a page", "start": 10145.96, "end": 10154.279}, {"text": "here and to the cost of cleaning up paper were addressed quickly rather than after months of", "start": 10154.279, "end": 10159.64}, {"text": "occupation as per the encampment protocol documents that you have once that you had that once an occupant is", "start": 10159.64, "end": 10166.279}, {"text": "removed from an unapproved location and once someone new moves in the process starts all over again so we're basically", "start": 10166.279, "end": 10172.8}, {"text": "in a circle and they know the rules better than we do so they're using them against us and each time this happens", "start": 10172.8, "end": 10178.52}, {"text": "months go by before anything happens and once again the homeowners who have invested in Hamilton who work in", "start": 10178.52, "end": 10184.88}, {"text": "Hamilton who support Hamilton and who are here to stay are impact Ed by the situation we are vulnerable too we are", "start": 10184.88, "end": 10192.96}, {"text": "mentally and emotionally strained by the situation we are concerned for our city our neighborhood our in security our", "start": 10192.96, "end": 10199.279}, {"text": "homes and our family this is our home and we we have grown Roots here we", "start": 10199.279, "end": 10204.68}, {"text": "matter for example if a campfire burns down the Ravine behind my home the encampment moves on and we're stuck with", "start": 10204.68, "end": 10210.319}, {"text": "the mess the cost and all the worries this bothers us daily in closing the", "start": 10210.319, "end": 10215.359}, {"text": "demographic of the people I spoke to R from a few years in the neighborhood all the way up to the original owners from 1986 they all feel the same they bought", "start": 10215.359, "end": 10223}, {"text": "their homes in our neighborhood because of the Green Space it is for everyone please give it back to us all of", "start": 10223, "end": 10229.92}, {"text": "us thanks Ralph and stay there we have some questions for you I'm happy to", "start": 10229.92, "end": 10235.12}, {"text": "answer them okay so uh first up is councelor Francis well thank you Ralph for coming", "start": 10235.12, "end": 10241.72}, {"text": "here um sadly these images here are a constant reality in W five that we've got to deal with if you look at them", "start": 10241.72, "end": 10247.92}, {"text": "that's what that's not the Ravine that I bought into that's the Ravine we have yeah that I didn't take these pictures", "start": 10247.92, "end": 10254.479}, {"text": "other people did they sent them to me you know this is a constant reality since this uh encampment protocol has", "start": 10254.479, "end": 10260.12}, {"text": "been implemented that we've had to deal with um just on in terms of your", "start": 10260.12, "end": 10265.56}, {"text": "comments there can you clarify for me when this encampment specifically in this location first popped up is it", "start": 10265.56, "end": 10271.88}, {"text": "September that you said septe uh November was the second one I think it was uh late August was the first one uh", "start": 10271.88, "end": 10278.279}, {"text": "and when I look at the protocol it's that the total number of days should be 17 days from original official uh", "start": 10278.279, "end": 10287.12}, {"text": "identification through the process to removal we're way past that on this one which was started November 23rd we", "start": 10287.12, "end": 10293.279}, {"text": "basically had a month off we had an encampment we brought it Forward I actually brought notices around to all", "start": 10293.279, "end": 10299.52}, {"text": "my neighbors to call you we wanted to make more noise and they did and then we got it removed a", "start": 10299.52, "end": 10305.72}, {"text": "month later guess what oh hey you know there's a good one down there it takes three months go down there and enjoy", "start": 10305.72, "end": 10311.16}, {"text": "yourself and wreck the lives of the people that live there that's what's happened so we're we're round two right", "start": 10311.16, "end": 10316.479}, {"text": "now it's a circle the only ones that are losing are us well I I appreciate it you know", "start": 10316.479, "end": 10324.2}, {"text": "explaining what happened here uh that's exactly what I've been seeing not in just this location but other locations", "start": 10324.2, "end": 10329.84}, {"text": "throughout my ward uh you know the I send them off as soon as I I hear about", "start": 10329.84, "end": 10335.08}, {"text": "them to uh unsheltered and unsheltered goes and deals with them and we", "start": 10335.08, "end": 10340.6}, {"text": "originally in August of 2023 uh at that GIC meeting agreed upon", "start": 10340.6, "end": 10346.92}, {"text": "it was actually 11 days not 17 but even in any event 11 or 17 days first of all that's a long time uh and second of all", "start": 10346.92, "end": 10353.8}, {"text": "uh it's going well beyond uh that 17 days we're on 6 months now of this encampment in this location that's", "start": 10353.8, "end": 10360.16}, {"text": "unacceptable and there's multiple placees uh order please order please question", "start": 10360.16, "end": 10367.8}, {"text": "councel I'm getting there I'm getting there and I know my staff been working directly with you and the residents in", "start": 10367.8, "end": 10373.68}, {"text": "the area to remove this encampment as they have been for six months it's very frustrating it's unacceptable uh I know", "start": 10373.68, "end": 10379.359}, {"text": "we've got a protocol in place that's claimed to be uh originated to get rid of these encampments in 11 days that's", "start": 10379.359, "end": 10385.319}, {"text": "not happening or even if it was 17 that is not happening not even close and here we are 6 months later with this and you", "start": 10385.319, "end": 10391.92}, {"text": "know I've been fighting very hard uh you know to get rid of this and I'm hoping today once and for all we can uh repal", "start": 10391.92, "end": 10398.84}, {"text": "that protocol because it's been holding our city back it's holding our our communities back it's no way to deal", "start": 10398.84, "end": 10404.04}, {"text": "with encampments it's no way to treat our communities it's no way to treat our hardworking taxpayers like yourself it gives the taxpayers the feel that we've", "start": 10404.04, "end": 10410.56}, {"text": "lost their voice yeah order please we're waiting for the question from I just want I'm just trying to just want to end", "start": 10410.56, "end": 10416.56}, {"text": "by I just want to end by saying we work hard today to try to remove that for hardworking taxpayers", "start": 10416.56, "end": 10422.88}, {"text": "like yourself thanks for coming to reply to that I hope that you all will move forward on this this is a big deal this is a big deal to the people of", "start": 10422.88, "end": 10429.68}, {"text": "Hamilton thank you Ralph I don't see any other people on the speakers list so I", "start": 10429.68, "end": 10435.04}, {"text": "appreciate you coming down and sharing your", "start": 10435.04, "end": 10439.279}, {"text": "experiences okay the next delegate is a virtual presentation", "start": 10447.76, "end": 10453.72}, {"text": "and it's James Kemp James are you with us online", "start": 10453.72, "end": 10460.279}, {"text": "hello thought I did just give it a minute it might take", "start": 10466.04, "end": 10471.68}, {"text": "a minute to turn on sorry", "start": 10471.68, "end": 10475.438}, {"text": "okay I apologize I seem to be having some technical difficulties um hopefully it turns on while I'm doing my my thing", "start": 10485.84, "end": 10493.279}, {"text": "it was working earlier when I I signed in okay you can begin then James can you", "start": 10493.279, "end": 10500.279}, {"text": "begin without the okay let's just start James go ahead", "start": 10500.279, "end": 10508.16}, {"text": "uh we'll do an audio audio presentation thank you I I do apologize for that deputy mayor uh Good morning Deputy", "start": 10508.16, "end": 10515.08}, {"text": "Mayor and members of the general issues committee thank you for taking the time to hear from me today I'm delegating to you today regarding uh item 9.2", "start": 10515.08, "end": 10522.399}, {"text": "specifically the motion to resend the encampment protocol while I understand residents and counselors concerns", "start": 10522.399, "end": 10527.439}, {"text": "regarding encampments I implore you not to take such drastic steps as it can only produce immeasurable harm we need", "start": 10527.439, "end": 10533.12}, {"text": "housing not just housing but deeply affordable housing across all types we need the federal and provincial governments to do their jobs and get", "start": 10533.12, "end": 10538.68}, {"text": "back into the social housing business expecting the free market to course correct itself and look after the needs with the less Fortune is absolute", "start": 10538.68, "end": 10544.8}, {"text": "fantasy removing regulation and rent controls as a solution is the same in the absence of higher government", "start": 10544.8, "end": 10550.64}, {"text": "support Hamilton other municipalities have stepped up as best they can to see to the needs of those unhoused this has caused Strife with homeowners that feel", "start": 10550.64, "end": 10557.08}, {"text": "their needs are not being prioritized over those residing in parks and I am truly sorry they feel that way they have a right to use the parks and they can I", "start": 10557.08, "end": 10564.479}, {"text": "rarely see encampments preventing citizens from doing so and I can't help but feel they're making a bit of a mountain out of a mole hill this may", "start": 10564.479, "end": 10570.6}, {"text": "seem like dismissal of their needs but I ask them do they have a warm place to sleep free from interference and harassment of others do they have a", "start": 10570.6, "end": 10576.279}, {"text": "place to prepare food dispose of garbage access to power washroom facilities and even the luxury of unfrozen water to", "start": 10576.279, "end": 10583.439}, {"text": "drink yes they do so it is hard to put their needs above those that do not those on house did not choose to be so", "start": 10583.439, "end": 10590.08}, {"text": "as they have it thrust upon them and they have nowhere to go the city could have taken more steps", "start": 10590.08, "end": 10595.6}, {"text": "maybe to provide services to those in Parks like perhaps arranging for regular garbage pickup providing for some sort", "start": 10595.6, "end": 10600.84}, {"text": "of access to power as our entire Society is based on electricity and maybe considering warming areas set up in", "start": 10600.84, "end": 10606.239}, {"text": "parks for people to keep warm without risk of encampment fires I do not ascribe to any of the illegal activities going on in some of these places but I", "start": 10606.239, "end": 10612.6}, {"text": "do understand that people will do what they must to survive the city is relying on their count of people living un house", "start": 10612.6, "end": 10618.359}, {"text": "but I must point out that there's a large group of people UNH house that are avoiding being counted they do not want to be forced into shelter unwillingly", "start": 10618.359, "end": 10624.319}, {"text": "and so are living not in centrally located Parks but at the outskirts of the city and hard to reach places I know", "start": 10624.319, "end": 10629.68}, {"text": "this because my wife's friend has been living this way since August he has a good job that actually has him staying in hotels for a couple of weeks a couple", "start": 10629.68, "end": 10636.8}, {"text": "of work weeks a month but he cannot find appropriate housing he also refuses to put himself on any sort of list or ask", "start": 10636.8, "end": 10642.16}, {"text": "for help he was attacked by Park goers on Christmas day was robbed and pushed into a chest High Creek they left him to", "start": 10642.16, "end": 10647.84}, {"text": "die from exposure as they took his phone he spent the Christmas holidays at my apartment recovering until he's well enough to return to Park Living I give", "start": 10647.84, "end": 10654.72}, {"text": "you this story just as an example that the people that live on housed have a vastly different experience than our own", "start": 10654.72, "end": 10661.04}, {"text": "people with various difficulties need special supports due to their conditions having someone with schizophrenia or tourettes or an acquired braid injury to", "start": 10661.04, "end": 10667.239}, {"text": "give a few examples and close quarters of shelters is not safe for Humane transitional housing like micro shelters", "start": 10667.239, "end": 10673.2}, {"text": "tiny shelters is the ideal solution to their individual needs further more the needs of those with physical disabilities can be better accommodated", "start": 10673.2, "end": 10678.8}, {"text": "in these settings people with disabilities make up the Lion Share of those unhoused and we must approprate", "start": 10678.8, "end": 10683.88}, {"text": "this problem with this in mind it is not simply enough to provide a bed it must be a safe and accommodating bed on the", "start": 10683.88, "end": 10689.279}, {"text": "agenda today is a letter from the acbd regarding the same subject if we want people to use shelters instead of living in Parks we need to provide a shelter", "start": 10689.279, "end": 10695.239}, {"text": "adapted to their individual needs I do not envy all you at Council you are being scapegoated by more senior levels", "start": 10695.239, "end": 10700.439}, {"text": "of government with little ability to affect lasting change without support of accessible affordable housing in place", "start": 10700.439, "end": 10705.52}, {"text": "the province is most recent encampment response plan is woefully inadequate and actually places the blame on those unhoused and not on the province where", "start": 10705.52, "end": 10711.64}, {"text": "the blame squarely belongs how is someone on social assistance supposed to afford housing with the rates as low as", "start": 10711.64, "end": 10716.68}, {"text": "they are landlords are not even considering renting to us as so many of us have poor credit scores and are considered bad Investments we all want", "start": 10716.68, "end": 10723.239}, {"text": "this crisis to end as soon as possible resending the encampment response prematurely is only going to hurt those already living life on the very edge", "start": 10723.239, "end": 10729.76}, {"text": "this winter is the coldest we've seen in a few years and is still a long way from ending homeowners should really be directing their eye at the Province if", "start": 10729.76, "end": 10736.319}, {"text": "they want to see any actual change until you can make them hurt they have no reason to get involved I thank you all", "start": 10736.319, "end": 10741.56}, {"text": "for your efforts on this issue to date and ask that you continue to stay the course with the current encampment protocol it is far from perfect but it", "start": 10741.56, "end": 10747.72}, {"text": "is better than not having it at all thank you thank you James there's no", "start": 10747.72, "end": 10753.56}, {"text": "questions uh from the counselors at this point so I thank you for your delegation", "start": 10753.56, "end": 10759.04}, {"text": "oh oh sorry councelor", "start": 10759.04, "end": 10763.72}, {"text": "Pauls thank you I just want to ask one question uh we want to protect our", "start": 10764.12, "end": 10769.6}, {"text": "homelessness and make sure they're not in arms way um living in parks in my", "start": 10769.6, "end": 10775.88}, {"text": "opinion is putting them in arms way because you just said we have the coldest we have cold Winters and leing", "start": 10775.88, "end": 10784.16}, {"text": "them in Parks is not the right thing to do so um what is your thought on that we", "start": 10784.16, "end": 10791}, {"text": "want to take them you just made a statement that living in Parks is a safer", "start": 10791, "end": 10797.359}, {"text": "Place uh my statement was living uh living with the encampment protocol as it is is safer than having them Shuffle", "start": 10797.359, "end": 10803.8}, {"text": "around and moving every every few days but to speak to that uh specifically uh", "start": 10803.8, "end": 10809.16}, {"text": "I want to remind people that during the pandemic The Province put in a uh temporary Hospital behind a general", "start": 10809.16, "end": 10815.399}, {"text": "hospital and they did it in the space of a month um and then they demolish it uh", "start": 10815.399, "end": 10821.12}, {"text": "pretty much as quickly uh without it ever actually being used um that was an allout effort that the province put put", "start": 10821.12, "end": 10828.08}, {"text": "forth uh to deal with that particular problem uh the province could be putting forth these sorts of efforts to have", "start": 10828.08, "end": 10834.359}, {"text": "better shelter spaces for the different municipalities but they're choosing not to", "start": 10834.359, "end": 10840.64}, {"text": "um why saying the province the city has the ability we could do it as well if", "start": 10840.64, "end": 10846.04}, {"text": "that's what we wanted to do my question is living uh leaving people in parks in", "start": 10846.04, "end": 10852.76}, {"text": "cold weather where there's a no washroom nothing around them all alone cuz I've", "start": 10852.76, "end": 10858.68}, {"text": "been and I've been to a couple of encampment and my heart breaks we are not keeping them in safe place the best", "start": 10858.68, "end": 10866.72}, {"text": "thing to do is eliminate tent in pars and put them", "start": 10866.72, "end": 10872.16}, {"text": "where there is warm there's a bed there's no bed in tents there sleeping", "start": 10872.16, "end": 10878.2}, {"text": "on the ground so my question to you is where do you see the safety in", "start": 10878.2, "end": 10884.239}, {"text": "Parks uh to to that question through the chair or through the deputy mayor sorry", "start": 10884.239, "end": 10890.319}, {"text": "um the it's not uh is is it safe at parks to shelters shelters are not safe", "start": 10890.319, "end": 10895.88}, {"text": "for a lot of people uh especially shelters in the confined conditions that we have today and uh a lot of people", "start": 10895.88, "end": 10902.399}, {"text": "with mental health issues uh find it difficult to live in such conditions uh", "start": 10902.399, "end": 10908.239}, {"text": "as we know that there's lots of fights violence stabbing there's people that are actually can't access shelters at", "start": 10908.239, "end": 10914.319}, {"text": "the moment because they've already been kicked out of particular shelters uh because of Behavioral issues that are", "start": 10914.319, "end": 10920.52}, {"text": "not their fault um I I don't agree that parks are the safest uh but I do believe that", "start": 10920.52, "end": 10926.92}, {"text": "people uh need to be able to uh survive in whatever way that they they possibly", "start": 10926.92, "end": 10932.96}, {"text": "can uh some people can do shelters but the shelters involve a daily Shuffle every day everybody's is displaced it's", "start": 10932.96, "end": 10940.04}, {"text": "a constant daily move and a daily Shuffle how is that going to be any different than the you know uh removing", "start": 10940.04, "end": 10946.04}, {"text": "the encampment protocols and doing the daily Shuffle as well people need to be able to find uh people need to be able", "start": 10946.04, "end": 10951.84}, {"text": "to found uh sorry for for medical services for Support Services uh and", "start": 10951.84, "end": 10957.2}, {"text": "they need to be able to have a place uh to go whether it's a safe place to go they need to have a place to go so that", "start": 10957.2, "end": 10962.72}, {"text": "they they can put their stuff they can sit down they can they they can rest and and shelters", "start": 10962.72, "end": 10968.319}, {"text": "aren't always the the best answer for them and with the uh unless we provide actual housing um having people find", "start": 10968.319, "end": 10976.92}, {"text": "some some way that they can to survive is probably the better option thank you James uh for that and I just want to", "start": 10976.92, "end": 10983.88}, {"text": "make it clear that I believe parks are a detriment to anybody that lives outside", "start": 10983.88, "end": 10989.88}, {"text": "especially in the winter so uh we do care and we have to buy uh find more solutions housing with support m", "start": 10989.88, "end": 10998.52}, {"text": "uh uh in I don't want to call them institution or Hospital whatever to get them help so thank you for that thank", "start": 10998.52, "end": 11005.279}, {"text": "you councel Pauls uh James we have another we have more questions and they're going to come from Counselor", "start": 11005.279, "end": 11013.68}, {"text": "Clark there will be questions Deputy Mayor", "start": 11014.479, "end": 11020.319}, {"text": "um can I ask your opinion as to how the", "start": 11020.319, "end": 11026.12}, {"text": "city should de deal with the chronically unhoused or the", "start": 11026.12, "end": 11033.08}, {"text": "hard to house I've asked questions of Staff in the past there's about 250", "start": 11033.08, "end": 11038.279}, {"text": "people that are living in tents several of them are refusing to", "start": 11038.279, "end": 11043.96}, {"text": "go um to structured housing so how do we deal with that uh thank you councilor clerk for", "start": 11043.96, "end": 11051.68}, {"text": "you through Deputy Mayor um it's not that they're refusing", "start": 11051.68, "end": 11057.72}, {"text": "refusing to go to structured housing they're refusing to go into shelter which is not the same thing at all uh structured housing I agree is is", "start": 11057.72, "end": 11065.04}, {"text": "important sorry if if I may James just one second I think the counselor wants to clarify sorry go", "start": 11065.04, "end": 11073.12}, {"text": "ahead the shelter component is not to what to which we are speaking there are", "start": 11073.12, "end": 11079.96}, {"text": "several unhoused individuals who are refusing to go", "start": 11079.96, "end": 11085.399}, {"text": "into um uh shelter that is transitional housing", "start": 11085.399, "end": 11091}, {"text": "shelter that is gear to income housing Supportive Housing because they cannot", "start": 11091, "end": 11096.439}, {"text": "function in that environment that has been our experience", "start": 11096.439, "end": 11101.76}, {"text": "and so I'm asking the question quite sincerely how do we help folks who do", "start": 11101.76, "end": 11107.12}, {"text": "not want to be helped there's always going to be a pardon me three depy there's always", "start": 11107.12, "end": 11112.96}, {"text": "going to be a component of people that um that that are going to refuse help", "start": 11112.96, "end": 11118.399}, {"text": "um but there's a lot of other people that feel that they don't have a choice or that their options are so poor um", "start": 11118.399, "end": 11124.6}, {"text": "that they they are refusing what they've given there's also people that don't understand exactly what transitional", "start": 11124.6, "end": 11129.92}, {"text": "housing means um and what wraparound supports means uh I mean when we think of things", "start": 11129.92, "end": 11136.279}, {"text": "like uh Residential Care Facilities living in a residential care facility is a no picnic um it's uh closed quarters", "start": 11136.279, "end": 11145.319}, {"text": "again like shelters you're living in very tight space spaces with the people with various", "start": 11145.319, "end": 11150.52}, {"text": "disabilities um you have uh no there's no program activities like say in in", "start": 11150.52, "end": 11156.359}, {"text": "long-term care facilities uh you basically sit and watch paint peel uh it's it's not a an experience it's um", "start": 11156.359, "end": 11164.76}, {"text": "people uh enjoy uh so some people are choosing uh not to go back into that", "start": 11164.76, "end": 11170.319}, {"text": "they they' they've gone out uh on into homelessness uh because they couldn't handle that sort of environment anymore", "start": 11170.319, "end": 11176.8}, {"text": "and and it's true that uh we do need to revisit transitional housing and what we consider wraparound housing uh it's what", "start": 11176.8, "end": 11184.52}, {"text": "we have now is not necessarily meeting everybody's needs um but but the first step", "start": 11184.52, "end": 11190.52}, {"text": "especially for the people that are chronically unhoused is some form of transitional housing that gives them a", "start": 11190.52, "end": 11196.04}, {"text": "space um without giving them an apartment we find that that just handing people the keys to an apartment after", "start": 11196.04, "end": 11202.08}, {"text": "they've been homeless is a recipe for disaster and failure um what the hats", "start": 11202.08, "end": 11208.12}, {"text": "program for example uh was trying to do is is try and provide a transitional place to go where people can have a", "start": 11208.12, "end": 11213.96}, {"text": "smaller area that can't be shared with other people because people uh on the street feel uh guilty for having", "start": 11213.96, "end": 11221.04}, {"text": "achieved housing and so they tend to give up space to to others that are also homeless and don't respect the space and", "start": 11221.04, "end": 11227.96}, {"text": "then they lose that that that rental property uh so again the smaller spaces", "start": 11227.96, "end": 11233.2}, {"text": "uh the uh again the house program is supposed to be like a small community to help people learn how to live uh in a in", "start": 11233.2, "end": 11240.56}, {"text": "a community again in a house Community uh it's a different form of living than", "start": 11240.56, "end": 11245.96}, {"text": "people used to living on the street I hope that answered some of your question I apologize if it", "start": 11245.96, "end": 11251.8}, {"text": "didn't no it it does and I thank you for acknowledging the challenge that the", "start": 11251.8, "end": 11257.12}, {"text": "city has and then offering some opportunities that we should be", "start": 11257.12, "end": 11262.6}, {"text": "exploring to be fair chair we already are exploring all of those opport unities and more thank you thank you", "start": 11262.6, "end": 11270.239}, {"text": "councelor Clark James there's no other questions for you so thank you for your delegation", "start": 11270.239, "end": 11276.92}, {"text": "today thank you I apologize for the technical issues no worries our next delegate is Brad Envoy", "start": 11276.92, "end": 11285.439}, {"text": "or Brad evoy and he's from the disability Justice Network of onario with a pre-recorded message are we ready", "start": 11285.439, "end": 11291.52}, {"text": "to play that", "start": 11291.52, "end": 11294.96}, {"text": "is Brad evoy I'm the executive director at disability Justice Network of Ontario", "start": 11314, "end": 11320.6}, {"text": "uh as you know djn is an organization devoted to building a world where", "start": 11320.6, "end": 11325.76}, {"text": "disabled people are free to be and can hold power to account um I'm", "start": 11325.76, "end": 11332.96}, {"text": "really I'm the ex director at disability Justice Network of", "start": 11332.96, "end": 11338.319}, {"text": "Ontario as you know DJ an organization devoted to building a world where", "start": 11338.319, "end": 11344.279}, {"text": "disabled people are free to be and can hold power to account um I'm really", "start": 11344.279, "end": 11353.68}, {"text": "we're just having some technical difficulties with the presentation and we're addressing those", "start": 11367.68, "end": 11373.12}, {"text": "now we hope", "start": 11373.12, "end": 11376.64}, {"text": "difficulties with the presentation and we're addressing those now we hope", "start": 11387.6, "end": 11395.16}, {"text": "is Brad evoy I'm the ex executive director at disability Justice Network", "start": 11445.319, "end": 11450.399}, {"text": "of Ontario uh as you know djo is an organization devoted to building a world", "start": 11450.399, "end": 11456.76}, {"text": "where disabled people are free to be and can hold power to account um I'm really sorry I can't be", "start": 11456.76, "end": 11464.76}, {"text": "here uh with you today but I wanted to leave you with some important thoughts", "start": 11464.76, "end": 11470.92}, {"text": "uh on the encampment protocol and the potential of it being rescinded so we we all want to live in a", "start": 11470.92, "end": 11479.08}, {"text": "world where measures like encampment Protocols are no longer", "start": 11479.08, "end": 11484.359}, {"text": "necessary to me this is a world where all hamiltonians can reach affordable", "start": 11484.359, "end": 11491}, {"text": "accessible housing as they and their families need however we haven't reached", "start": 11491, "end": 11496.76}, {"text": "this moment yet as we've previously said when we've delegated here we know that", "start": 11496.76, "end": 11503.68}, {"text": "the vast majority of unhoused folks in this province are themselves disabled", "start": 11503.68, "end": 11509.56}, {"text": "and are part of our community that has been consistently failed by all levels of", "start": 11509.56, "end": 11515.08}, {"text": "government this is especially true for Hamilton as the Canadian Human Rights", "start": 11515.08, "end": 11523.56}, {"text": "Commission and the office of the federal housing Advocate have stated people with disabilities are more likely to", "start": 11523.56, "end": 11530.2}, {"text": "experience homelessness because of violence or abuse and that these figures were even higher for women with this", "start": 11530.2, "end": 11537.2}, {"text": "disabilities that's 63% of women with disabilities who've", "start": 11537.2, "end": 11542.56}, {"text": "experienced homelessness in their lifetime because of violence as well people with", "start": 11542.56, "end": 11549.439}, {"text": "disabilities are more likely to miss a rent or mortgage payment because of financial issues than people without", "start": 11549.439, "end": 11555.76}, {"text": "disabilities we were more likely to be forced to move for economic reasons including Financial hardships related to", "start": 11555.76, "end": 11563.96}, {"text": "the long shadow of the covid-19 pandemic and that financial hardship is the main", "start": 11563.96, "end": 11571.12}, {"text": "reason that people with disabilities are forced into homelessness including", "start": 11571.12, "end": 11576.16}, {"text": "missed housing payments and overall 45% of people with disabilities across", "start": 11576.16, "end": 11582.96}, {"text": "the country noted that this was the main reason for homelessness just", "start": 11582.96, "end": 11588.72}, {"text": "money and we know that a number of unhoused uh ODSP and ow recipients that", "start": 11588.72, "end": 11596.52}, {"text": "are unhoused has doubled since the pandemic began and that more of our inous neighbors are", "start": 11596.52, "end": 11602.88}, {"text": "kept from these systems due to barriers arising from being", "start": 11602.88, "end": 11608.399}, {"text": "unhoused now as the association of municipalities have discussed in its", "start": 11608.399, "end": 11613.439}, {"text": "Recent research the solution for these issues is not policing or reverting to", "start": 11613.439, "end": 11618.84}, {"text": "cruelties to our neighbors and our unhoused neighbors are our neighbors but", "start": 11618.84, "end": 11625.2}, {"text": "instead clear able Mass reinvestment back into the housing system ultimately", "start": 11625.2, "end": 11632.279}, {"text": "moving from the protocol uh while it may be flawed uh to a system where policing", "start": 11632.279, "end": 11638.64}, {"text": "and by law enforcement are the tools uh the main tools for working with unhoused", "start": 11638.64, "end": 11644.56}, {"text": "hamiltonians is a dangerous precedent and ultimately doesn't get us where we need to be we need you to Pivot your", "start": 11644.56, "end": 11653.439}, {"text": "focus from retiga Municipal policy and instead focus on improving it and", "start": 11653.439, "end": 11659.6}, {"text": "working with groups like us to pressure the provincial government to make the kinds of Investments we need in our", "start": 11659.6, "end": 11665.88}, {"text": "social system Amo itself acknowledges the need for $13 billion in investment", "start": 11665.88, "end": 11673.08}, {"text": "undermining protocols and worsening situations won't make this any easier", "start": 11673.08, "end": 11678.16}, {"text": "for any of us instead I urge you to refocus on getting these investments", "start": 11678.16, "end": 11683.76}, {"text": "from The Province to hamiltonians and ontarians that need them along with urgently needed increases to social", "start": 11683.76, "end": 11690.72}, {"text": "assistance rates and reinstating full rent control the things that folks who", "start": 11690.72, "end": 11696.8}, {"text": "are who are unhoused have told us they need rather than forcing everyone to", "start": 11696.8, "end": 11703.56}, {"text": "relitigate these issues every couple of months we don't need to keep debating", "start": 11703.56, "end": 11710}, {"text": "this again and again we don't need Council spending all its time on", "start": 11710, "end": 11715.56}, {"text": "Emergency Shelters built on toxic land instead we need long-term vision and", "start": 11715.56, "end": 11720.92}, {"text": "solutions that ensure that everyone has an affordable and accessible home in Hamilton that is the heart of the matter", "start": 11720.92, "end": 11728.439}, {"text": "and that is the solution that everyone here I believe wants we need to actually make it happen and focus on the people", "start": 11728.439, "end": 11735.56}, {"text": "and structures that are preventing that from", "start": 11735.56, "end": 11740}, {"text": "happening okay I'll publicly thank Brad for his delegation uh that concludes the", "start": 11741.16, "end": 11747.359}, {"text": "delegations on this topic so may I please have a move in second or to receive the delegations councelor spat", "start": 11747.359, "end": 11753.88}, {"text": "thank you for looking so enthusiastic and councelor Bey as well um all in favor with a show", "start": 11753.88, "end": 11760.92}, {"text": "hands that passes thank you so we're going to go back", "start": 11760.92, "end": 11767.88}, {"text": "to 6.2 Alex Sears respecting things from the Cyber attack in person is Alex here", "start": 11769.76, "end": 11777.68}, {"text": "at this time I'm not seeing anybody stand up so I'm thinking", "start": 11777.68, "end": 11783.92}, {"text": "that we will just pass on that and we'll move back to number seven on the agenda items for", "start": 11783.92, "end": 11792.319}, {"text": "information may I please have a mover and a seconder to put all the items for information on the floor please all the", "start": 11792.319, "end": 11799.439}, {"text": "items councelor Wang and the mayor thank you so this is item 7.1 7.2 7.3 .4 and", "start": 11799.439, "end": 11807.6}, {"text": "7.5 are there any discussions on the items for", "start": 11807.6, "end": 11813.04}, {"text": "information not seeing any whoa whoa whoa whoa I'm just going", "start": 11816.199, "end": 11823.56}, {"text": "electronically sir okay are you are you I hope that you", "start": 11823.56, "end": 11830.479}, {"text": "have not been offended counselor what we'll do is uh if there", "start": 11830.479, "end": 11836.239}, {"text": "is a list that's growing thank you I see it is now first day on the job I guess for a", "start": 11836.239, "end": 11844.08}, {"text": "year or so okay here we go councelor Jackson your time is now thank you", "start": 11844.08, "end": 11851.96}, {"text": "Prince thank you deputy mayor uh tattis good morning um so that since we're", "start": 11851.96, "end": 11857.96}, {"text": "moving these as a bundled uh number of uh if you will consent items now items", "start": 11857.96, "end": 11863.6}, {"text": "for information they're dubbed I guess for the uh the new new way procedurally", "start": 11863.6, "end": 11868.72}, {"text": "so I just want to be Crystal Clear 7.4 can I speak to that one please about the revenue Source you may thank you so I", "start": 11868.72, "end": 11876.479}, {"text": "want to be Crystal Clear um this was what I think a large part of our citizenry were here for uh this morning", "start": 11876.479, "end": 11883.04}, {"text": "for the municipal land transfer tax uh discussion debate and delegates and uh this if I recall uh was", "start": 11883.04, "end": 11890.64}, {"text": "requested about a year or so ago by a majority of my colleagues I uh voted I'll be honest and I want to rest", "start": 11890.64, "end": 11897.279}, {"text": "I voted against it even the exploration of it because I just didn't um like the", "start": 11897.279, "end": 11902.56}, {"text": "Optics of it in terms of an additional potential uh hypothetical proposed tax", "start": 11902.56, "end": 11909.399}, {"text": "uh Upon Our citizens and given all the ability to pay an affordability issue that is number one for my constituents", "start": 11909.399, "end": 11917.16}, {"text": "overall so having said that the majority of my colleagues said let's at least get a report to review so I want to be", "start": 11917.16, "end": 11923.319}, {"text": "crystal clear today unless there's some motion coming out of this report this", "start": 11923.319, "end": 11928.399}, {"text": "report is just here today to be received no further action because I can just", "start": 11928.399, "end": 11933.76}, {"text": "support receiving it with no further action but I need to understand because I want to be careful and accurate with", "start": 11933.76, "end": 11940.199}, {"text": "my vote given my position uh over the last year so through you deputy mayor uh", "start": 11940.199, "end": 11945.84}, {"text": "tedison uh to LC McCrae procedurally to help me understand uh the report this", "start": 11945.84, "end": 11951.08}, {"text": "before us today please through the deputy mayor everything that is an item for information is to be received", "start": 11951.08, "end": 11956.88}, {"text": "received only unless committee should put something else on the floor so what as it stands is just the items to be", "start": 11956.88, "end": 11962.6}, {"text": "received and 7.4 is an information report to be received thank you for that reaffirmation uh ELC McCrae and uh so", "start": 11962.6, "end": 11970.399}, {"text": "I'm satisfied with that Deputy Mayor tson on item 7.4 I think the people that were here uh word has spread across the", "start": 11970.399, "end": 11977.479}, {"text": "community I can't get over the last 72 hours I've been bombarded with emails 99% concerned about the municipal land", "start": 11977.479, "end": 11985.08}, {"text": "transfer tax and where it may be going in our city so if just received today it puts an end to that debate at this time", "start": 11985.08, "end": 11991.359}, {"text": "and I'm satisfied with that thanks Deputy Mayor tatterson thank you councelor Jackson", "start": 11991.359, "end": 11996.96}, {"text": "and should you wish to go on and speak about another item when that point comes up you will have another five minutes", "start": 11996.96, "end": 12003.76}, {"text": "okay thank you um we're going to move now to counselor M Wilson councelor M", "start": 12003.76, "end": 12008.84}, {"text": "Wilson what's your item number 74 perfect thank you", "start": 12008.84, "end": 12017.119}, {"text": "you may you may begin thank you um thank you very much uh for the staff and their", "start": 12017.239, "end": 12023.439}, {"text": "diligence in preparing this information report for our review and consideration", "start": 12023.439, "end": 12029.04}, {"text": "and Al for also for the Public's review and consideration I do have a a few questions of clarification", "start": 12029.04, "end": 12035.12}, {"text": "please thank you um I think uh one of one of the the", "start": 12035.12, "end": 12043.08}, {"text": "reasons that spurred uh this information report and um I think there's very few times in my", "start": 12043.08, "end": 12049.52}, {"text": "service that I would ever quash um information coming to to the table I", "start": 12049.52, "end": 12055.16}, {"text": "think that's our responsibility and uh certainly an opportunity um but the first question I", "start": 12055.16, "end": 12062.52}, {"text": "have that which spurred uh the request if I could through the", "start": 12062.52, "end": 12068.279}, {"text": "acting through the deputy mayor um perhaps to GM ziger um Andor my colleague uh C Wang", "start": 12068.279, "end": 12077.199}, {"text": "who proudly represents us at Amo there has been much discussion of late uh", "start": 12077.199, "end": 12083.84}, {"text": "particularly on the need for municipalities to have a new fiscal framework and I'm", "start": 12083.84, "end": 12089.399}, {"text": "wondering why municipalities all 444 of them in Ontario why would we be", "start": 12089.399, "end": 12096.8}, {"text": "advancing and champing that through both our leadership at Amo and fcm and also around this table uh perhaps first of", "start": 12096.8, "end": 12104.12}, {"text": "all through uh you chair to GM", "start": 12104.12, "end": 12109.279}, {"text": "Zar through the uh Deputy Mayor the um there are a number of factors that", "start": 12111, "end": 12117.359}, {"text": "delegates spoke to in the context of 7.4 as it relates to the development", "start": 12117.359, "end": 12123.52}, {"text": "community and um factors that have been affecting their their business and their", "start": 12123.52, "end": 12130.96}, {"text": "ability to develop those those are some of the same factors that are affecting municipalities we've experienced post", "start": 12130.96, "end": 12138.199}, {"text": "pandemic a pace of inflation for non-residential development that we have", "start": 12138.199, "end": 12143.56}, {"text": "not experienced for a generation and that has eroded at our purchasing power", "start": 12143.56, "end": 12150.64}, {"text": "as it relates to our revenues and some of those", "start": 12150.64, "end": 12156.92}, {"text": "priorities are surrounding growth and development as we plan towards growing", "start": 12156.92, "end": 12163.359}, {"text": "towards a population of of 93,00 committee will", "start": 12163.359, "end": 12169.439}, {"text": "recall that through the rate budget almost the entirety of the 10%", "start": 12169.439, "end": 12175.52}, {"text": "increase was to sport infrastructure including planning towards towards", "start": 12175.52, "end": 12180.76}, {"text": "growth and recognizing that municipalities like the city of Hamilton are not", "start": 12180.76, "end": 12186.6}, {"text": "only facing the challenges surrounding facilitating growth with the necessary", "start": 12186.6, "end": 12193.319}, {"text": "infrastructure we're also tasked with addressing an infrastructure deficit as", "start": 12193.319, "end": 12199.04}, {"text": "a mature community and so we turn then towards", "start": 12199.04, "end": 12204.12}, {"text": "our fiscal capacity and the recognition that as our financial tools are eroding", "start": 12204.12, "end": 12210.8}, {"text": "as our existing Financial relationship with other orders of government is", "start": 12210.8, "end": 12216.56}, {"text": "eroding in part because of inflation we're needing to have a different conversation as it relates to that", "start": 12216.56, "end": 12224.04}, {"text": "Financial relationship with the Fed Federal and provincial government one example when I speak to erosion is and", "start": 12224.04, "end": 12232.08}, {"text": "we're appreciative of the funding that we receive for infrastructure from the federal provincial governments whether", "start": 12232.08, "end": 12238.16}, {"text": "it's the gas tax revenue sharing from the province of of approximately 11 to 12 million annually whether it's the", "start": 12238.16, "end": 12245.84}, {"text": "federal Community Canada Community benefit fund previously the federal gas", "start": 12245.84, "end": 12251.16}, {"text": "tax revenue sharing which is approximately $34 million while that has", "start": 12251.16, "end": 12257.279}, {"text": "increased by approximately 2% over the last few years inflation has eroded", "start": 12257.279, "end": 12263.76}, {"text": "about 56% of that purchasing power as it relates to infrastructure", "start": 12263.76, "end": 12270.76}, {"text": "those are some of the factors that are causing municipalities to", "start": 12270.76, "end": 12276.239}, {"text": "request the opportunity to discuss a different fiscal relationship and we see", "start": 12276.239, "end": 12281.96}, {"text": "headwinds going forward as we are reliant on Old tools such as gas tax", "start": 12281.96, "end": 12288.319}, {"text": "revenue sharing as that sector evolves becomes the there's a risk to", "start": 12288.319, "end": 12294.8}, {"text": "municipalities in terms of that Revenue stream that's tied to for instance gas", "start": 12294.8, "end": 12300.199}, {"text": "tax and so that conversation needs to evolve uh and I would say timing is", "start": 12300.199, "end": 12307.199}, {"text": "critical now as municipalities are dealing with crises whether it's a housing crisis a mental health crisis an", "start": 12307.199, "end": 12316}, {"text": "open crises as well as we're we're trying to address infrastructure both as it", "start": 12316, "end": 12322.239}, {"text": "relates to state of good repair but as well as being good partners towards", "start": 12322.239, "end": 12327.76}, {"text": "facilitating growth going forward thank you uh through the chair", "start": 12327.76, "end": 12334.439}, {"text": "to GM zaric I I really appreciate um that uh which has been supplied to us", "start": 12334.439, "end": 12340}, {"text": "not by an elected official but the one who uh we um look to for expertise in", "start": 12340, "end": 12346.8}, {"text": "the management of our public expenditures um I think it's uh interesting we uh like to", "start": 12346.8, "end": 12354.96}, {"text": "use catchy phrases which I heard again today no disrespect um the problem is", "start": 12354.96, "end": 12360.399}, {"text": "that we have a revenue we don't have a revenue problem counselor we have an expenditure problem but what I thought I", "start": 12360.399, "end": 12367.08}, {"text": "just heard uh chair is um the Baldwin act which Incorporated municipalities I", "start": 12367.08, "end": 12373.68}, {"text": "believe in 1846 um hasn't changed in terms of that which", "start": 12373.68, "end": 12381.359}, {"text": "municipalities um have access to in their finances which is taxes on", "start": 12381.359, "end": 12386.88}, {"text": "property so we have a revenue problem we also though what I heard from GM zarck", "start": 12386.88, "end": 12392.6}, {"text": "we have an expenditure problem in that we are the only province in the nation", "start": 12392.6, "end": 12399.84}, {"text": "where cities and towns are responsible for social housing land TR land", "start": 12399.84, "end": 12405.279}, {"text": "ambulance um and a number of other uh Hefty in uh expenditures so what I", "start": 12405.279, "end": 12412.8}, {"text": "thought I heard the GM say is we do have a revenue problem we have an expenditure problem more so um today so thank you um", "start": 12412.8, "end": 12421.68}, {"text": "on the issue of uh I'd like to ask some questions which are specific to the the", "start": 12421.68, "end": 12427.12}, {"text": "report I may can you come back on the speaker list you're at 6 minutes and 30 seconds absolutely thank you thank", "start": 12427.12, "end": 12435.16}, {"text": "you we're going to go to counselor Francis now councelor", "start": 12435.16, "end": 12440.359}, {"text": "Francis is this on 7.4 this is on 7.4 yeah thanks Deputy Mayor tattis and this", "start": 12440.359, "end": 12446.439}, {"text": "year we'll mark the third consecutive year this Council passes along a 6% tax increase to our residents plus hundreds", "start": 12446.439, "end": 12453}, {"text": "of millions of dollars in reserve spending residents continually ask where their tax dollars are going they're not", "start": 12453, "end": 12458.8}, {"text": "seeing any benefit for these large tax increases this Council does in fact have a spending problem and not a revenue", "start": 12458.8, "end": 12465.479}, {"text": "problem they know that the municipal land transfer tax will be used to fund more Reckless spending and not cut", "start": 12465.479, "end": 12470.88}, {"text": "property taxes I'll be voting no to the municipal land transfer tax of have no interest in these tax and spend tricks", "start": 12470.88, "end": 12476.56}, {"text": "in this report my residents cannot afford them I voted no to receiving this information in the first place and", "start": 12476.56, "end": 12482.96}, {"text": "should a motion come forward at some point from one of my colleagues to implement these tax and spend policies I", "start": 12482.96, "end": 12488.359}, {"text": "will be opposing them thank you so thanks and you and you do realize", "start": 12488.359, "end": 12495.84}, {"text": "Council Francis we're not voting on that exactly today correct I just said that thank you you're sorry I was distracted", "start": 12495.84, "end": 12502.04}, {"text": "um let's go back to uh the list and looks like it's councelor Clark you're", "start": 12502.04, "end": 12509}, {"text": "up uh thank you Deputy Mayor Tuson just a quick couple of questions on item", "start": 12509, "end": 12516.84}, {"text": "7.4 so it is an information report but I'd like to understand whether that", "start": 12516.84, "end": 12522.239}, {"text": "there has been any direction from any elected official to staff to begin the", "start": 12522.239, "end": 12528.399}, {"text": "process on any of these new taxes or fees for that matter will that", "start": 12528.399, "end": 12535.76}, {"text": "be GM yeah through the deputy mayor no thank you and so by receiving this just", "start": 12535.76, "end": 12543.12}, {"text": "for clarification from the clerk we are not indicating in any way shape or form", "start": 12543.12, "end": 12549.72}, {"text": "support of these items or even um", "start": 12549.72, "end": 12554.88}, {"text": "exploring them further we're simply receiving the report as it is written is", "start": 12554.88, "end": 12560}, {"text": "that correct can I just get that audibly GM or clerk so through the", "start": 12560, "end": 12567.88}, {"text": "deputy mayor sorry uh yes that's correct thank you very much those are all my", "start": 12567.88, "end": 12573.12}, {"text": "questions thank you councelor clerk councelor Bey thank you Deputy May and through you", "start": 12573.12, "end": 12580.68}, {"text": "I don't debate the need for a better fiscal deal for municipalities across inter", "start": 12580.68, "end": 12587.359}, {"text": "I would debate how we Implement such a thing in a way that", "start": 12587.359, "end": 12593.279}, {"text": "doesn't unduly affect our residents who are already and I think I speak for the", "start": 12593.279, "end": 12599.319}, {"text": "majority of the folks that have reached out from from my community at their limit in terms of what they're able to", "start": 12599.319, "end": 12605.12}, {"text": "contribute financially so I'm really not interested in any of the items in this report but one and let me explain this", "start": 12605.12, "end": 12612.8}, {"text": "more deeply uh and perhaps ask a question of the bench uh before I draw", "start": 12612.8, "end": 12617.84}, {"text": "the ey of anybody in the chamber or online and this is with regards to uh", "start": 12617.84, "end": 12623.6}, {"text": "tobacco tax let me uh unpack this a little more deeply if I could ask a question at the", "start": 12623.6, "end": 12629.359}, {"text": "bench when the tobacco tax and a tax on the sale of tobacco products was", "start": 12629.359, "end": 12634.68}, {"text": "explored was it solely on Tobacco based products the IE the burning of a tobacco", "start": 12634.68, "end": 12640.56}, {"text": "leaf in some form or were vaping products uh also considered in uh in", "start": 12640.56, "end": 12646.92}, {"text": "this report through you Deputy", "start": 12646.92, "end": 12650.68}, {"text": "Mayor through the deputy mayor Kirk we were acting director financial planning administration and policy the focus was", "start": 12651.96, "end": 12658.52}, {"text": "on tobacco products and my apologies Kirk I probably could have asked you this", "start": 12658.52, "end": 12664}, {"text": "question offline days ago I just ran out of time um so I'm not hanging any direction at the moment deputy mayor uh", "start": 12664, "end": 12671.439}, {"text": "but I want to remind members of the deep and ongoing concerns raised by Youth and our Community particularly uh to me", "start": 12671.439, "end": 12678.92}, {"text": "through youth in the Stony Creek community that I represent as to what they're referring to as a a vaping", "start": 12678.92, "end": 12685.16}, {"text": "epidemic uh amongst young people and my interest is pequ just as curiosity uh", "start": 12685.16, "end": 12692.399}, {"text": "particularly in vaping products um not from the standpoint as an additional Revenue tool but as a tool for", "start": 12692.399, "end": 12699.319}, {"text": "control uh from the stand from the standpoint as a tool to be able to combat uh the ongoing issue of increased", "start": 12699.319, "end": 12706.6}, {"text": "use of vaping products among our our young people I'm I'm throwing that out there I'm going to be going back to our", "start": 12706.6, "end": 12713.279}, {"text": "our Stony Creek youth Council for some more conversation on this uh perhaps there'll be something coming forward in", "start": 12713.279, "end": 12718.52}, {"text": "the future perhaps not um but that's the only tiny piece and I'm planting a little tiny flag uh for future", "start": 12718.52, "end": 12725.72}, {"text": "conversation strictly from a control measure not from an additional Revenue measure and I want to make that clear", "start": 12725.72, "end": 12731.56}, {"text": "thank you thanks councelor Bey and just for everyone's information on the speakers list is mcmakin Wayne casar", "start": 12731.56, "end": 12739.239}, {"text": "Paul stano and M Wilson for a second time so we'll go to councelor MCM now", "start": 12739.239, "end": 12745.8}, {"text": "thanks uh Deputy Mayor I wasn't going to speak again here but since others are", "start": 12745.8, "end": 12751.359}, {"text": "are exercising their opportunity to to talk uh to this issue", "start": 12751.359, "end": 12758.92}, {"text": "774 uh I feel some obligation to uh to do the same um for me it's pretty for me", "start": 12758.92, "end": 12767.239}, {"text": "it's pretty simple um uh complex but simple uh the answer", "start": 12767.239, "end": 12773.72}, {"text": "is pretty simple too if we can find a way to it and that's to find ways to generate more Revenue to meet the the", "start": 12773.72, "end": 12780.8}, {"text": "mer the buring needs of one of the fastest growing municipalities uh in", "start": 12780.8, "end": 12787.96}, {"text": "Ontario and our tools are limited um and I would yield to anyone anywhere who has", "start": 12787.96, "end": 12796.08}, {"text": "an alternate answer that would allow us to uh to U substantively and", "start": 12796.08, "end": 12803.6}, {"text": "responsibly handle some of the challenges we have like Mental Health Services homelessness picking up some of", "start": 12803.6, "end": 12811.08}, {"text": "the pieces from changes to planning policy around development charges are having to pick up some of the", "start": 12811.08, "end": 12816.6}, {"text": "infrastructure costs there which we previously didn't have to do and and so", "start": 12816.6, "end": 12821.68}, {"text": "we're increasingly um having to respond to the intrusiveness of other um things", "start": 12821.68, "end": 12829.16}, {"text": "that are happening and uh and uh we're being debilitated in terms of the access", "start": 12829.16, "end": 12834.64}, {"text": "to the revenues that we need to to meet our our responsibilities the", "start": 12834.64, "end": 12840.12}, {"text": "responsibilities you all took a oath to try to uphold um I have some people who", "start": 12840.12, "end": 12846.279}, {"text": "uh are legitimately a lot of people are legitimately concerned picking up on", "start": 12846.279, "end": 12851.64}, {"text": "councilor francis's point about the consistent uh large increases from their perception if", "start": 12851.64, "end": 12859.8}, {"text": "they only knew the truth around how we tie in U Reserve funds as well they'd be", "start": 12859.8, "end": 12865.04}, {"text": "even more concerned um I get that and uh the simple reality is the only Revenue", "start": 12865.04, "end": 12871.68}, {"text": "Source we have now given some of the restrictions that have been placed on us is to jack up property", "start": 12871.68, "end": 12877}, {"text": "taxes and uh it puts us in a in a in a terrible position because you want to", "start": 12877, "end": 12883.64}, {"text": "score points in with your constituent once you come in and say let's have zero or 2% tax increases when we all know in", "start": 12883.64, "end": 12891.04}, {"text": "our heart of hearts that's completely unreasonable um so I think councelor Dano asked the", "start": 12891.04, "end": 12900.12}, {"text": "most important question of one of the presenters and it's the one I ask myself", "start": 12900.12, "end": 12905.239}, {"text": "and have shared with my constituents um if the question on the poll was um to uh", "start": 12905.239, "end": 12913.52}, {"text": "because you could pull anything development charges uh gas tax uh you name it uh the U", "start": 12913.52, "end": 12924.279}, {"text": "the uh you know the green tax you know and you would get that kind", "start": 12924.319, "end": 12929.52}, {"text": "of a response people don't like taxes I don't mind paying taxes but I want to get value for my taxes so that's on the", "start": 12929.52, "end": 12936.399}, {"text": "expense side councelor Francis has raised that appropriately he's always", "start": 12936.399, "end": 12941.64}, {"text": "can be accused of doing his job which I appreciate um you know there there are expense sides and we have the power to", "start": 12941.64, "end": 12948.199}, {"text": "to with some control there we we ought to be looking at that uh systematically and aggressively all the time and and I", "start": 12948.199, "end": 12955.76}, {"text": "think last round we did a pretty good job of that you know we came in at 14", "start": 12955.76, "end": 12961}, {"text": "something and ended up at 3.52 municipally generated it could have be maybe been a little lower but who", "start": 12961, "end": 12967.16}, {"text": "knows um so the issues revenue and I I I'm serious I think if if we were to", "start": 12967.16, "end": 12972.84}, {"text": "pull hamiltonians or others in the province and say look we we've got some", "start": 12972.84, "end": 12978.439}, {"text": "tough choices to make and those tough choices uh include uh Discerning as", "start": 12978.439, "end": 12985.479}, {"text": "wisely as we can the appropriateness of the various Revenue tools um if we were", "start": 12985.479, "end": 12991.76}, {"text": "to raise for example $200 million with some of the people I've been speaking", "start": 12991.76, "end": 12997.359}, {"text": "with from a previous lifetime say would be optimal I got another minute um we", "start": 12997.359, "end": 13006.8}, {"text": "could raise 200 million that's 19.3 points on the tax scale we could", "start": 13006.8, "end": 13012.56}, {"text": "theoretically not theoretically we could practically freeze or even reduce property taxes and if we went to the", "start": 13012.56, "end": 13019.76}, {"text": "people I think you were making this point ccor Dano with that kind of proposition and said you know do you", "start": 13019.76, "end": 13026.239}, {"text": "want to embrace something that arguably a more progressive tax does bear some resemblance to one's income and ability", "start": 13026.239, "end": 13032.84}, {"text": "to pay uh and and be rewarded with that kind of a um a", "start": 13032.84, "end": 13039.88}, {"text": "commitment um I think those figures that in the research would be screwed the opposite way I I think for every person", "start": 13039.88, "end": 13046.84}, {"text": "you would take off in the city and there'd be a lot lot of them um you", "start": 13046.84, "end": 13052.52}, {"text": "would have uh 25 to 50 people thanking you for what you did potentially now I", "start": 13052.52, "end": 13058.399}, {"text": "realize we don't have the authority to do that on our own we're going to have to petition the province should we decide to go there we're not there today", "start": 13058.399, "end": 13066.12}, {"text": "um but at some point we're going to have to make that decision and I hope when we do we do it responsibly thanks thank you", "start": 13066.12, "end": 13073.16}, {"text": "counselor M mein councelor Wang thank you Deputy Mayor um councelor", "start": 13073.16, "end": 13081.16}, {"text": "Morin Wilson had asked in her remarks um what was amos's sort of position on this", "start": 13081.16, "end": 13087.88}, {"text": "and in particular there is a massive push on the amos's um Municipal finance", "start": 13087.88, "end": 13094.08}, {"text": "and revenue tools and essentially looking at it from a fiscal framework so Amo with its 444 municipalities across", "start": 13094.08, "end": 13102.199}, {"text": "Ontario are all advocating on behalf of a new fiscal framework and I'm just", "start": 13102.199, "end": 13107.439}, {"text": "going to read briefly on the overview and then just some of amos's position Ontario municipalities manage", "start": 13107.439, "end": 13114.76}, {"text": "nearly half a trillion dollars worth of infrastructure including roads and bridges water Wastewater Recreation", "start": 13114.76, "end": 13121.92}, {"text": "facilities social housing public transit and more in", "start": 13121.92, "end": 13127.479}, {"text": "2022 municipalities invested almost 65 billion in annual revenues on local", "start": 13127.479, "end": 13132.6}, {"text": "services and infrastructure Amo estimates that Ontario municipalities are planning for between 250 billion and", "start": 13132.6, "end": 13139.56}, {"text": "290 billion in capital Investments over the next 10 years with 100 billion of", "start": 13139.56, "end": 13145.319}, {"text": "that related to growth while adapting to Future needs like climate change responses or the increase to the cost of", "start": 13145.319, "end": 13152.84}, {"text": "infrastructure not investing in the future would cost more municipalities", "start": 13152.84, "end": 13158.08}, {"text": "rely primarily on property taxes to generate the revenues needed to conduct their business ontarians currently pay", "start": 13158.08, "end": 13165.6}, {"text": "the second highest property taxes in the country and in part because municipalities deliver the broadest", "start": 13165.6, "end": 13171.92}, {"text": "range of services in the country and own and operate the majority of public", "start": 13171.92, "end": 13178.92}, {"text": "infrastructure soo's position is that municipalities face increasingly complex", "start": 13178.92, "end": 13184.72}, {"text": "challenges property taxpayers including people on fixed income and struggling small businesses cannot afford to subsidize", "start": 13184.72, "end": 13192.16}, {"text": "income redistribution Investments for those most in need and significant Capital Investments and since Ontario is", "start": 13192.16, "end": 13200.399}, {"text": "planning on historic growth with a housing Target of over 1.5 million homes", "start": 13200.399, "end": 13205.64}, {"text": "Ontario municipalities planning to meet this Challenge and significant Capital expenditures will be needed over the", "start": 13205.64, "end": 13212.479}, {"text": "next decade which cannot be funded by municipalities alone Amo is calling on the provincial", "start": 13212.479, "end": 13220.08}, {"text": "government to sit down with municipalities to work together on a joint review of Municipal Finance", "start": 13220.08, "end": 13226.56}, {"text": "including a detailed analysis of Ontario's infrastructure investment and Service delivery needs so I hope", "start": 13226.56, "end": 13234.08}, {"text": "councelor Wilson this kind of explains amos's position on asking the provincial", "start": 13234.08, "end": 13240.479}, {"text": "government on a new fiscal framework because as we have heard both from councelor mcmein and other counselors", "start": 13240.479, "end": 13246.239}, {"text": "that have already been stated the current way of how we are funding", "start": 13246.239, "end": 13251.359}, {"text": "investment and growth on the backs of property taxes property taxpayers is just completely unsustainable and we", "start": 13251.359, "end": 13258.72}, {"text": "need to find Opportunities and I believe that 7.4 in this report was at least a", "start": 13258.72, "end": 13264.96}, {"text": "glimpse and at least a thought process and at least a brainstorm as to what are what is the art of the possible thank", "start": 13264.96, "end": 13272.04}, {"text": "you thank you councelor Wayne councelor casar thanks Deputy Mayor and", "start": 13272.04, "end": 13278.199}, {"text": "I just wanted to speak broadly about the report not for or against anything in there because that's really not what", "start": 13278.199, "end": 13283.96}, {"text": "this report is about which is what councelor Wanger just said just to start off um one of our delegates this morning", "start": 13283.96, "end": 13291.399}, {"text": "spoke quite passionately about their derision for Council even you know considering this today and I think it's", "start": 13291.399, "end": 13296.84}, {"text": "just for the public record to clarify there was a motion asking staff to bring a report forward on on a number of", "start": 13296.84, "end": 13304.319}, {"text": "topics and that's why it's here so we're not actually considering implementing as has been made clear by many others this is our process staff are directed to", "start": 13304.319, "end": 13311.08}, {"text": "report so they should not receive any negative will or ill will for doing their jobs I just wanted to put that out", "start": 13311.08, "end": 13317.159}, {"text": "there all of us around the table here um want to minimize property taxes and that's what this is about has been said", "start": 13317.159, "end": 13323.92}, {"text": "many times so I won't belabor the point but we have costs like housing and homelessness and others that have been", "start": 13323.92, "end": 13329.239}, {"text": "mentioned that we are having to finance and we cannot Finance we cannot continue", "start": 13329.239, "end": 13334.399}, {"text": "to ask the property taxpayer to fund uh eliminating costs is something", "start": 13334.399, "end": 13339.88}, {"text": "that we absolutely need to do wherever possible each budget so far this term has done that and we need to continue", "start": 13339.88, "end": 13345.92}, {"text": "looking at that but we're not going to save our way to affordability as as um GM zerck pointed out the costs are up", "start": 13345.92, "end": 13352.6}, {"text": "some 56% whatever the number was it's and things are getting much more expensive out of our control it's been", "start": 13352.6, "end": 13359.6}, {"text": "mentioned that the province is not helping and doesn't support a new Municipal fiscal framework so what we", "start": 13359.6, "end": 13364.72}, {"text": "need to do as Governors here is to look for new ways alternate sources of revenue I me that's what this is about", "start": 13364.72, "end": 13370}, {"text": "so we can de debate the merits of those at another time that's not what today's about but I think that's our duty to be", "start": 13370, "end": 13375.479}, {"text": "at least looking at options and I think that's a good thing to do um and councel MCM pointed out that", "start": 13375.479, "end": 13382.439}, {"text": "some Revenue sources could have an astonishing impact both on property tax affordability and then investment in our", "start": 13382.439, "end": 13387.92}, {"text": "city you know things like playgrounds and sports facilities and road maintenance and road safety so that's", "start": 13387.92, "end": 13394.479}, {"text": "not on the table but you know there are options that we could decide if we were to have more Revenue whether it's from", "start": 13394.479, "end": 13399.64}, {"text": "The Province or whether it's from our own doing through something that we move here at this table that's what I think", "start": 13399.64, "end": 13405.84}, {"text": "we need to do that's our role and all the while maintaining affordability for property tax pairs because I agree we", "start": 13405.84, "end": 13412.159}, {"text": "don't want to continue to put significant increases out there um and we're spending a lot of", "start": 13412.159, "end": 13418.199}, {"text": "money on housing um private developers are not building the housing that we need uh we heard that today from the", "start": 13418.199, "end": 13423.72}, {"text": "West End Home Builders Association the market is not in a very the worst spot has been in a generation I think is what", "start": 13423.72, "end": 13429.08}, {"text": "I heard um the province is not coming to answer the call that we need more", "start": 13429.08, "end": 13436.68}, {"text": "funding they're saying that you know historic Investments are are being made but that's kind of underwhelming and Hollow when they don't come close to", "start": 13436.68, "end": 13443.88}, {"text": "actually what we need so we're left to try and figure things out that's what this is about um I'm going to leave it", "start": 13443.88, "end": 13449.56}, {"text": "there but I think it's just important to put in context here we're not trying to implement something we ask for some", "start": 13449.56, "end": 13455.159}, {"text": "options and we got that report back and that's what we have thanks Deputy Mayor", "start": 13455.159, "end": 13460.479}, {"text": "thanks councelor casar we're going to move to councelor Paul's on the big", "start": 13460.479, "end": 13466.358}, {"text": "screen and thank you um You probably all know where I stand on this but uh yeah I", "start": 13471, "end": 13477.64}, {"text": "remember even last term there was a rumor that we might look at the land transfer tax and I remember thinking wow", "start": 13477.64, "end": 13485.399}, {"text": "that would really um destroy our Market housing market and cause a lot of", "start": 13485.399, "end": 13491.68}, {"text": "problem but I hear a lot of uh our property tax uh I think councelor Dano", "start": 13491.68, "end": 13497.76}, {"text": "asked well if we want lower taxes then we must that find Revenue but my point", "start": 13497.76, "end": 13503.68}, {"text": "is this I am glad this is not where we're voting whether we're going to implement it or not we we're have two", "start": 13503.68, "end": 13511.92}, {"text": "pockets the two pockets are in the same pair of P hands we're putting we're", "start": 13511.92, "end": 13517.12}, {"text": "taxing people more by doing this to pay", "start": 13517.12, "end": 13522.479}, {"text": "to lower our taxes so to me it's all the same taxes it is important that we look", "start": 13522.479, "end": 13531.479}, {"text": "at other option not taxing more people to figure out how to pay for our", "start": 13531.479, "end": 13537.84}, {"text": "expenses in Hilton we are taxing people to", "start": 13537.84, "end": 13543.08}, {"text": "death my one concern that I have that people call me even with just playing", "start": 13543.08, "end": 13548.319}, {"text": "the vacant tax people don't even understand that any longer people don't even know what that is about and I just", "start": 13548.319, "end": 13555.479}, {"text": "want to say that we talk about taxes taxes taxes how we're going to pay and", "start": 13555.479, "end": 13560.84}, {"text": "we want to tax the people to pay for it so I am glad this is not a vote to", "start": 13560.84, "end": 13569.319}, {"text": "implement this because first of all we heard that we have no rights it's not legislative for us to do decide it's the", "start": 13569.319, "end": 13577.239}, {"text": "province so I'm glad and I have to admit I did vote to for the report and uh but", "start": 13577.239, "end": 13584.04}, {"text": "I would make sure it's not implemented I will do my best because people of", "start": 13584.04, "end": 13589.64}, {"text": "Hamilton have spoken I've had hundreds of emails people have talked to me and", "start": 13589.64, "end": 13595.12}, {"text": "uh clearly we do not want to pay our taxes by taxing the people that we're", "start": 13595.12, "end": 13601.479}, {"text": "taxing already so thank you for that thank you councelor Paul councelor Dano", "start": 13601.479, "end": 13607}, {"text": "you're up next thank you this has been a a fascinating discussion on an issue that", "start": 13607, "end": 13614}, {"text": "we have no authority to implement however I do want to thank uh councelor", "start": 13614, "end": 13619.92}, {"text": "Wilson and uh and Council that voted in support of this to have this report back", "start": 13619.92, "end": 13625}, {"text": "because this is important information for us as a municipality to consider and", "start": 13625, "end": 13630.279}, {"text": "also for us as a municipality to continue to advocate for", "start": 13630.279, "end": 13635.359}, {"text": "a new funding structure for municipalities not just Hamilton but", "start": 13635.359, "end": 13641.439}, {"text": "every municipality in Ontario so let's just do the math on what is actually in", "start": 13641.439, "end": 13648}, {"text": "this report 177 million new revenue for a land transfer tax $4.2 to $31 million", "start": 13648, "end": 13656.479}, {"text": "for alcohol 5 to6 million for tobacco all in total that would result today if", "start": 13656.479, "end": 13663.84}, {"text": "we implement it right now a municipal property tax cut to every single", "start": 13663.84, "end": 13669.319}, {"text": "property taxpayer in the city of Hamilton of 16 a half% so I think if I put in my", "start": 13669.319, "end": 13675.479}, {"text": "newsletter tomorrow um would you be supportive of a", "start": 13675.479, "end": 13680.52}, {"text": "16 a half% property tax cut I can guarantee I'll get a far more positive", "start": 13680.52, "end": 13686.479}, {"text": "response than the real realtor did to their survey because every single", "start": 13686.479, "end": 13691.52}, {"text": "property owner in the city of Hamilton pays property taxes and not every single person is involved in investment", "start": 13691.52, "end": 13698.52}, {"text": "property selling and buying or buying new houses that is a very small pop percentage of the", "start": 13698.52, "end": 13704.84}, {"text": "population so let's just talk about you know this this idea of um the city", "start": 13704.84, "end": 13713.319}, {"text": "doesn't have a revenue issue it has a spending issue I mean that's a very easy", "start": 13713.319, "end": 13718.8}, {"text": "criticism to make against any government it's as old as it's as old as organiz", "start": 13718.8, "end": 13725.359}, {"text": "government um and frankly it's easy it's also lazy the fact is that we as a", "start": 13725.359, "end": 13731.439}, {"text": "municipality and every municipality across Ontario has a lack of financial support from the provincial government", "start": 13731.439, "end": 13737.52}, {"text": "constant ongoing downloading not only of costs but of provincial responsibilities we have a provincial", "start": 13737.52, "end": 13743.64}, {"text": "government that is currently sitting on a $2 billion a year annual Surplus a", "start": 13743.64, "end": 13748.96}, {"text": "provincial government that is currently looking at launching a $200 million provincial election that nobody wants", "start": 13748.96, "end": 13755.359}, {"text": "and I think it's beyond Rich for uh our local rep representatives from the", "start": 13755.359, "end": 13760.64}, {"text": "provincial government to admonish this Council for the hard decisions that we are forced to make as a result of", "start": 13760.64, "end": 13767.439}, {"text": "provincial decisions and provincial inaction and provincial downloading and", "start": 13767.439, "end": 13772.88}, {"text": "not having provincial uh um Representatives who are advocating on", "start": 13772.88, "end": 13778.12}, {"text": "behalf of municipalities and instead advocating against the interests of their own residents thank you", "start": 13778.12, "end": 13784.76}, {"text": "thanks councelor Dano um councelor spatap for snuck in", "start": 13784.76, "end": 13790.84}, {"text": "there I don't know that I'd call it sneaking Deputy Mayor tatterson just you", "start": 13790.84, "end": 13796.439}, {"text": "know apologies I'll retract that thank you I I'll make it uh quick I just have", "start": 13796.439, "end": 13802.12}, {"text": "one comment I know we've talked a lot about uh the municipal land transfer tax", "start": 13802.12, "end": 13807.199}, {"text": "uh brings the possibility of raising hundreds of million dollars and then our taxes can go away get Frozen get cut we", "start": 13807.199, "end": 13813.96}, {"text": "have one example to go by that is real and that example is Toronto and that example has", "start": 13813.96, "end": 13820.239}, {"text": "been proven they have a land transfer tax and they still have property taxes they did not cut they did not reduce", "start": 13820.239, "end": 13826.68}, {"text": "they did not eliminate they didn't freeze one example a true municipality that has a municipal land transfer tax", "start": 13826.68, "end": 13833.399}, {"text": "and what they've been able to do is have three increases over the last three", "start": 13833.399, "end": 13838.56}, {"text": "years that are all over I believe 7even or 8% none of them went down none of", "start": 13838.56, "end": 13844.52}, {"text": "them of them were frozen none of them were cut that's the only data that I have now there's other municipalities", "start": 13844.52, "end": 13850.439}, {"text": "that have implemented it and have reduced removed or frozen property taxes then we can look at it thank", "start": 13850.439, "end": 13857.72}, {"text": "you thanks councelor spora counselor M Wilson for a second", "start": 13857.72, "end": 13863.76}, {"text": "time thanks chair um I'm never going to give up an", "start": 13863.76, "end": 13869.319}, {"text": "opportunity in which uh to Advocate on behalf of the residents of this community for a fair more sustainable", "start": 13869.319, "end": 13876.76}, {"text": "funding model with senior orders of government um one of the delegates uh", "start": 13876.76, "end": 13884.319}, {"text": "used the term equity and of course we've heard about affordability and if I could um", "start": 13884.319, "end": 13892.84}, {"text": "chair through to through you to Mr ziger and or uh director Weaver", "start": 13892.84, "end": 13901.159}, {"text": "um we've heard property taxes referred to as a regressive form of", "start": 13901.159, "end": 13908}, {"text": "Taxation and in documentation that is received year after year after year U by", "start": 13908, "end": 13915.12}, {"text": "by this body um there is reference uh as to to illustrate why property taxes are", "start": 13915.12, "end": 13922.56}, {"text": "regressive so my first question is uh through you if I could ask um either of", "start": 13922.56, "end": 13928.04}, {"text": "those two individuals to help me understand what does regressive taxation mean in reality thank you", "start": 13928.04, "end": 13936.52}, {"text": "Gia through the deputy mayor property taxes are are set on two simple factors", "start": 13936.92, "end": 13944.68}, {"text": "assessed value and a tax rate the tax rate for the most part exclusive of some", "start": 13944.68, "end": 13949.88}, {"text": "Mar rating Services is the same tax rate that's applied to every property within", "start": 13949.88, "end": 13955.359}, {"text": "a class irrespective of the owner's ability to pay or income so if a senior", "start": 13955.359, "end": 13962}, {"text": "were to be residing in a home that has a", "start": 13962, "end": 13967.439}, {"text": "assessed value of a half million dollar they're going to pay the same tax rate", "start": 13967.439, "end": 13973.199}, {"text": "on that assessed home as a household with two earners who are equally", "start": 13973.199, "end": 13981.359}, {"text": "residing in a half million doll assessed home the regressiveness is that that tax", "start": 13981.359, "end": 13987.56}, {"text": "burden does not capture or reflect ability to pay for those property owners", "start": 13987.56, "end": 13995.12}, {"text": "thank you so each year I think it's every year could be every other year um this body receives a competitive tax uh", "start": 13995.12, "end": 14003.8}, {"text": "report and um in one of the appendices to that report that you've all been uh", "start": 14003.8, "end": 14010.64}, {"text": "supplied with um there are there's documentation which talks about this", "start": 14010.64, "end": 14016.76}, {"text": "very issue property taxes as a percentage of income um so for for those who are", "start": 14016.76, "end": 14026.279}, {"text": "interested um in Hamilton uh we're deemed to be extremely", "start": 14026.279, "end": 14032.239}, {"text": "high meaning we have lower incomes uh but we have um our", "start": 14032.239, "end": 14040.68}, {"text": "expenditures are the same as everyone else but maybe our need is more acute", "start": 14040.68, "end": 14046.08}, {"text": "we've talked about housing today so property taxes as a percentage of income in Hamilton is", "start": 14046.08, "end": 14052.92}, {"text": "4.6% to our Neighbors in Burlington chair it's", "start": 14052.92, "end": 14058.479}, {"text": "3.2% so for me that is a clear illustration of the regressive nature of", "start": 14058.88, "end": 14065}, {"text": "property taxes and why we need a new fiscal", "start": 14065, "end": 14070.88}, {"text": "framework um our tax ratios in Hamilton multi-residential tax ratio is 2.21", "start": 14071.96, "end": 14081.56}, {"text": "74% in Barry it's 1.0", "start": 14081.56, "end": 14086.318}, {"text": "% so when we're talking about the issue of equity in the city of Hamilton chair", "start": 14087.279, "end": 14094.159}, {"text": "we know that the those with the very least and this is proven by a report that's available publicly by statistics", "start": 14094.159, "end": 14100.76}, {"text": "Canada those with the very least are paying disproportionately the most in", "start": 14100.76, "end": 14106.08}, {"text": "property taxes and most of them don't even own a home they're", "start": 14106.08, "end": 14111.12}, {"text": "renters so so um for for this reason I", "start": 14113.08, "end": 14118.479}, {"text": "think is absolutely incumbent upon us to uh pound the table on the new fiscal", "start": 14118.479, "end": 14124.12}, {"text": "framework to talk about options and frankly in closing chair I've I've heard", "start": 14124.12, "end": 14129.52}, {"text": "words like uh Reckless spending uh we have to crack down and I've heard words", "start": 14129.52, "end": 14135.08}, {"text": "like we need to pursue and look at options that's exactly what um we've been advocating and we're three years in", "start": 14135.08, "end": 14141.68}, {"text": "this ain't your first rodeo and I have not seen anything come forward that would seem to gut the very services that", "start": 14141.68, "end": 14148.159}, {"text": "people buy houses and enjoy which are libraries Parks Trails uh Green Space", "start": 14148.159, "end": 14155}, {"text": "cleanliness in our downtown so I I look forward when it comes to the Amendments", "start": 14155, "end": 14160.08}, {"text": "of those options coming forward by my colleagues in which uh they want to get after Reckless spending and gut", "start": 14160.08, "end": 14166.68}, {"text": "programming thank you thank you Counselor councelor Clark for a second", "start": 14166.68, "end": 14173.479}, {"text": "time just two quick comments on the municipal", "start": 14173.479, "end": 14180.279}, {"text": "land transfer tax I would suggest it would be prudent to remember that a", "start": 14180.279, "end": 14185.64}, {"text": "municipality cannot guarantee any Revenue in any specific", "start": 14185.64, "end": 14190.68}, {"text": "year the revenue is 100% dependent on the housing market if the housing market tanks the revenue for the municipality", "start": 14190.68, "end": 14198.52}, {"text": "tanks so it is not a tax that one municipality can can depend upon", "start": 14198.52, "end": 14205.159}, {"text": "on um as for the potential discounts this Council promised an 11%", "start": 14205.159, "end": 14211.8}, {"text": "discount on water rates when they implemented the storm water fee in fact we indicated that that storm", "start": 14211.8, "end": 14220.72}, {"text": "water fee was going to be $185 for a single family home and now it's $285 for a family home so be careful", "start": 14220.72, "end": 14227.84}, {"text": "what we promise um can I ask a question specifically regarding", "start": 14227.84, "end": 14235.8}, {"text": "7.5 which is the encamping issue you are the last speaker so we can go two different item segue yeah and you have", "start": 14235.8, "end": 14242.88}, {"text": "five minutes thank you God bless you I like this chair", "start": 14242.88, "end": 14250.199}, {"text": "um you can say what you want councilor Jackson I like this chair um", "start": 14251.56, "end": 14258.479}, {"text": "seriously can I ask when we will have an opportunity to ask questions", "start": 14258.479, "end": 14264.8}, {"text": "about the Barton Tiffany um transitional housing project", "start": 14264.8, "end": 14271.04}, {"text": "it's not I didn't see it mentioned in this encampment response and a lot has gone on and this", "start": 14271.04, "end": 14277.76}, {"text": "Council has not to my knowledge had an opportunity to inquire about it so I'm", "start": 14277.76, "end": 14283}, {"text": "trying to understand when it's appropriate to make those inquiries I", "start": 14283, "end": 14288.439}, {"text": "think that's a valid question GM Mater uh through the deputy", "start": 14288.439, "end": 14294.6}, {"text": "mayor Grace Mater um uh general manager healthy and safe communities took me a moment sorry um so counselor you can ask", "start": 14294.6, "end": 14302.08}, {"text": "any question at any point that you'd like okay", "start": 14302.08, "end": 14308.08}, {"text": "so I've mostly been depending on some of the things that I've seen in the news and if I understand it correct", "start": 14308.08, "end": 14315.8}, {"text": "correctly staff entered into a procurement agreement with a company that had only", "start": 14315.8, "end": 14322.52}, {"text": "been registered 3 weeks a earlier so what type of um review was done on the ability of", "start": 14322.52, "end": 14331.72}, {"text": "the company to perform the task that we were wanting them to", "start": 14331.72, "end": 14337.439}, {"text": "perform so through the chair I'll start and then I'll uh ask U Michelle to uh help me out with this as well so at the", "start": 14337.479, "end": 14345.04}, {"text": "Pres at the time when we pursued this back in the fall this um whole um", "start": 14345.04, "end": 14350.64}, {"text": "process of uh tiny shelters cabins modular homes was a relatively new", "start": 14350.64, "end": 14356.08}, {"text": "Endeavor we had uh reached out to a number of areas that uh um of of groups", "start": 14356.08, "end": 14362}, {"text": "that were providing these um types of facilities um about trying to match it", "start": 14362, "end": 14367.92}, {"text": "up with what we determined we needed at that point in time we had some priorities that was about being able to", "start": 14367.92, "end": 14374}, {"text": "accommodate couples being able to accommodate um pets we also wanted to ensure that uh whatever we were", "start": 14374, "end": 14380.88}, {"text": "investing in that we could utilize again um so that was some of the parameters", "start": 14380.88, "end": 14386.64}, {"text": "that we looked at we also looked at timeliness as well um and I know that we have been beset by a couple of delays", "start": 14386.64, "end": 14393.8}, {"text": "and we acknowledge that um but at that at the time when we were looking the company felt that they could deliver it", "start": 14393.8, "end": 14399.68}, {"text": "by the timeline we were were needing them so those were some of the things that we took into consideration when we", "start": 14399.68, "end": 14405.92}, {"text": "made that determination the company was a company that was located in Burling or Branford and uh they were an indigenous", "start": 14405.92, "end": 14413}, {"text": "company and um that uh we they had met the the requirements that of the things", "start": 14413, "end": 14418.399}, {"text": "that we were looking for so did we inquire into their history", "start": 14418.399, "end": 14424.08}, {"text": "with the building of such structures did they demonstrate to us oh", "start": 14424.08, "end": 14429.84}, {"text": "look over here we built this project or that project through the chair they had", "start": 14429.84, "end": 14434.96}, {"text": "provided us with with some examples of the type of buildings that they were and", "start": 14434.96, "end": 14440.319}, {"text": "locations that they were already they are the Canadian distributor for this for this type of shelter microshelters", "start": 14440.319, "end": 14446.76}, {"text": "Inc is and um that you know and I know that through the media many of you everyone is aware that there have been", "start": 14446.76, "end": 14454.319}, {"text": "issues with the Cal the US based side of the company and that um but at that", "start": 14454.319, "end": 14460.04}, {"text": "point in time that we were unaware of that and", "start": 14460.04, "end": 14466.64}, {"text": "so again we have numerous companies in", "start": 14466.64, "end": 14471.96}, {"text": "Ontario that build these mod mod units what was the process to drill down", "start": 14471.96, "end": 14480.92}, {"text": "to the company that you chose through the chair as I indicated", "start": 14480.92, "end": 14487.56}, {"text": "that one of was about size many of them were of a smaller size we were looking for the ability to accommodate couples", "start": 14487.56, "end": 14493.72}, {"text": "and th this sizewise that uh microshelters provided were able to meet", "start": 14493.72, "end": 14500.76}, {"text": "that did they have examples on on their property did you go and visit and see", "start": 14500.76, "end": 14506.68}, {"text": "the the the the example uh through the chair I did not staff had followed up", "start": 14506.68, "end": 14512.08}, {"text": "with it so um Danielle Blake is here", "start": 14512.08, "end": 14518.08}, {"text": "somewhere oh there you sorry I'm gonna defer to manager", "start": 14518.72, "end": 14524.439}, {"text": "BL uh through the chair uh they did not have a model of that specific unit that", "start": 14524.439, "end": 14530.199}, {"text": "we were able to see at that time um everything that we were was through uh", "start": 14530.199, "end": 14535.319}, {"text": "techn like through uh video or uh photos of similar units that they used more", "start": 14535.319, "end": 14541.08}, {"text": "specifically at uh site in Salt Lake City Utah so this company that existed for", "start": 14541.08, "end": 14548.439}, {"text": "only three weeks did the the project in Salt Lake", "start": 14548.439, "end": 14553.56}, {"text": "City through the chair uh I believe it was the American uh branch of the of the", "start": 14553.56, "end": 14559.239}, {"text": "company that they were associated with that did the site in Salt Lake City", "start": 14559.239, "end": 14565.479}, {"text": "okay and so the the last question I have is with respect", "start": 14566.199, "end": 14572.04}, {"text": "to um the allegations in the public that the company used a an or an", "start": 14572.04, "end": 14579.84}, {"text": "on-site sales program called Alibaba to secure these um", "start": 14579.84, "end": 14589.159}, {"text": "units can you verify if that was the case", "start": 14589.159, "end": 14594.72}, {"text": "uh through the chair to the counselor uh no I can't verify that that is the specific um purchase or that they uh", "start": 14595.199, "end": 14602.159}, {"text": "obtain the units from so do we know where they obtained the units", "start": 14602.159, "end": 14608.04}, {"text": "from it came overseas so uh the the uh company that I'm aware", "start": 14608.04, "end": 14614.8}, {"text": "of that they received the units from is called Global access LLC and so they brought units from", "start": 14614.8, "end": 14622.72}, {"text": "China to House people here in Canada and it was a company that was created only 3", "start": 14622.72, "end": 14630.72}, {"text": "weeks prior to working with the city of", "start": 14630.72, "end": 14636.04}, {"text": "Hamilton and we don't know how they came to the decision to purchase those from", "start": 14636.04, "end": 14641.88}, {"text": "China is that my understanding so through the chair uh my understanding is", "start": 14641.88, "end": 14647.64}, {"text": "that there was an existing relationship between the uh fabricator of the units and the microshelters company that we", "start": 14647.64, "end": 14654.12}, {"text": "were dealing with so there was already an existing relationship the intent from microshelters which is the company we", "start": 14654.12, "end": 14659.88}, {"text": "obtained them from was to work with this particular provider of these shelters", "start": 14659.88, "end": 14665.92}, {"text": "overseas so we agreed to purchase the units from", "start": 14665.92, "end": 14671.399}, {"text": "China we purchase the units from micro", "start": 14671.399, "end": 14676.439}, {"text": "shelters okay but they purchased them from China were we aware that we were agreeing to purchasing units", "start": 14676.439, "end": 14684.239}, {"text": "from China I um am not 100% sure that we knew", "start": 14684.239, "end": 14691.319}, {"text": "the exact origin of the where the units were going to be fabricated at the time", "start": 14691.319, "end": 14696.68}, {"text": "um it was a very quick turnaround in order to meet expected timelines on this project so um we had to move very", "start": 14696.68, "end": 14704.52}, {"text": "quickly in order to get agreements signed and so on and so forth um we were", "start": 14704.52, "end": 14709.6}, {"text": "given Direction by Council or permission by Council to be able to uh single Source uh these units and uh this as", "start": 14709.6, "end": 14717.84}, {"text": "Grace had previously mentioned this provider was able to provide the units within a time frame that was acceptable", "start": 14717.84, "end": 14723.439}, {"text": "to us and the style of the units was acceptable to us um beyond that um the", "start": 14723.439, "end": 14729.479}, {"text": "uh the the process of procurement moved very quickly and um and um I'm not sure", "start": 14729.479, "end": 14736.64}, {"text": "that we had um every detail of information that we now have regarding the company or the origin of the units", "start": 14736.64, "end": 14743.12}, {"text": "thank you man manager and GM Mater were you going to chime in thank you through", "start": 14743.12, "end": 14748.72}, {"text": "the chair to the counselor as as Danielle has indicated that you know in hindsight you know that we were not able", "start": 14748.72, "end": 14754.6}, {"text": "to get all of those details and with everything that we purchased though you know I don't know if we drill down to", "start": 14754.6, "end": 14760.64}, {"text": "that level um through any everything we order as it is so if we failed to do something that we should have that would", "start": 14760.64, "end": 14766.72}, {"text": "be on me it just raises in my mind a question of how careful this Council has to be", "start": 14766.72, "end": 14773.84}, {"text": "when we agree to Soul Source something we need to clarify very clearly the", "start": 14773.84, "end": 14779.72}, {"text": "parameters in that Soul Source are prior to giving that that Authority um and I'm", "start": 14779.72, "end": 14785.56}, {"text": "concerned about the things that I've heard I am hoping Beyond hope that these units will fully comply with the", "start": 14785.56, "end": 14792.76}, {"text": "building code in Ontario the fire code in Ontario electrical Safety Code in", "start": 14792.76, "end": 14797.8}, {"text": "Ontario those are the things that we need to ensure that these units that were built outside of Canada may not", "start": 14797.8, "end": 14805.159}, {"text": "have met any of our Canadian standards Association codes and so we need to make sure that the buildings when they are", "start": 14805.159, "end": 14811.8}, {"text": "built and up that they are fully inspected to ensure that they meet all of those", "start": 14811.8, "end": 14819.039}, {"text": "codes thank you for those cautions councelor clerk at this time I'd like to hear the confirmation that they're going", "start": 14820.159, "end": 14825.88}, {"text": "to do that through the chair yes we are working with the building department with the fire department with uh the", "start": 14825.88, "end": 14832.72}, {"text": "electrical and they will be signed off and approved before anyone will be utilizing the units thank you very much", "start": 14832.72, "end": 14840.199}, {"text": "thank you councelor clerk are there any more items councelor", "start": 14840.199, "end": 14848.359}, {"text": "Paul's thank you and I I just want to follow up with Counselor Clark was", "start": 14849.119, "end": 14854.399}, {"text": "talking I had quite a few phone calls and emails stating that um our micro", "start": 14854.399, "end": 14861.08}, {"text": "shelters are costing us over 7 million milon dollar can you uh tell me how much", "start": 14861.08, "end": 14867.239}, {"text": "does it cost for one shelter one unit you said they have to be built aren't", "start": 14867.239, "end": 14873.239}, {"text": "they um shelters like uh containers through the chair yes they're", "start": 14873.239, "end": 14880.04}, {"text": "prefabricated buildings they pop up basically and that uh the cost for per unit was $35,000 that would provide um", "start": 14880.04, "end": 14888.199}, {"text": "accommodation for two individuals so am I don't know I have to do the", "start": 14888.199, "end": 14894.76}, {"text": "multiplication is that equal $7 million where's the $7 million coming", "start": 14894.76, "end": 14901}, {"text": "from the $7 million included all of the uh the cost regarding the uh purchase of", "start": 14901, "end": 14906.88}, {"text": "the units through setup also through the operating the operating of it so it's $7", "start": 14906.88, "end": 14914.479}, {"text": "million um we I we've been criticized I know they uh that we did not to do", "start": 14914.479, "end": 14921.84}, {"text": "diligent of course uh where we bought them the cost and all that and uh I'm", "start": 14921.84, "end": 14928.84}, {"text": "just um wondering now that's Canadian money right 35,000 not us or that's", "start": 14928.84, "end": 14936}, {"text": "Canadian money it's costing us 35,000 and then we have to erect them and we", "start": 14936, "end": 14941.479}, {"text": "have to put uh electricity and all that right through the chair yes that's", "start": 14941.479, "end": 14947.159}, {"text": "correct it is Canadian it's Canadian so 35,000 is just the containers do we have", "start": 14947.159, "end": 14953.76}, {"text": "to uh make sure they're um insulated there's electricity do we have to add to", "start": 14953.76, "end": 14961.52}, {"text": "that cost so it's just 35,000 period stop and through through the chair that", "start": 14961.52, "end": 14967.6}, {"text": "includes a heat and um air condition and air conditioning unit as", "start": 14967.6, "end": 14972.76}, {"text": "well okay um I also had a lot of questions um I don't know what happened", "start": 14972.76, "end": 14980.96}, {"text": "with the tiny house they were only going to cost us I think got 5,000 uh with that I I don't know where", "start": 14980.96, "end": 14987.8}, {"text": "we landed there why would we considering that instead of spending", "start": 14987.8, "end": 14993.76}, {"text": "35,000 or 5,000 did we uh we we did not consider that at all", "start": 14993.76, "end": 15002.159}, {"text": "when we were doing procurement and realized it was going to be 35,000 a container a container somebody said you", "start": 15002.159, "end": 15008.76}, {"text": "could get them for 5,000 or even less through the chair as as i' mentioned before counselor the reason", "start": 15008.76, "end": 15015.84}, {"text": "the rationale as to why we chose those units yeah yeah why did we choose those", "start": 15015.84, "end": 15024.52}, {"text": "units so that's the question counselor Paul and I think the answer was that we were looking for shelters that could", "start": 15024.64, "end": 15032.199}, {"text": "house couples thank you couples not just the tiny homes okay there's a lot of", "start": 15032.199, "end": 15038.72}, {"text": "questions out there there's a lot of publicity that uh um you know is very negative towards that so I just wanted", "start": 15038.72, "end": 15045.72}, {"text": "to be clear that uh we have to be careful when we do procurement and to make sure we're getting the value of our", "start": 15045.72, "end": 15052.52}, {"text": "money so thank you oh thank you councelor Pauls um I", "start": 15052.52, "end": 15059.479}, {"text": "just see that councelor Matt Francis would like to speak and go ahead Matt yeah just to further add to this is a", "start": 15059.479, "end": 15065.08}, {"text": "question that popped up uh as a part of this conversation here I just want to know with a soul Source contract here", "start": 15065.08, "end": 15071.04}, {"text": "were any other companies considered uh in this procurement", "start": 15071.04, "end": 15076.921}, {"text": "process through the chair yes we looked at a number of different op um opportunities and as we indicated that", "start": 15077.319, "end": 15083.439}, {"text": "the reason why we ended up choosing with micr shelters was based on the criteria that I", "start": 15083.439, "end": 15088.88}, {"text": "outlined thank you and of the other companies that you looked at were any of those other companies qualified that", "start": 15088.88, "end": 15095.279}, {"text": "with a track record uh of building or local materials in this", "start": 15095.279, "end": 15100.6}, {"text": "country through the chair we didn't ask those questions okay I I would think that", "start": 15100.6, "end": 15106.56}, {"text": "would be a pretty obvious question and when we get to my motion later in the uh", "start": 15106.56, "end": 15111.8}, {"text": "agenda here I'll I'll speak to it further then thank you thank you councelor", "start": 15111.8, "end": 15117.92}, {"text": "Francis are there any more discussions on any of the", "start": 15117.92, "end": 15123.199}, {"text": "items for information not seeing any we will now take a vote by a show of", "start": 15123.199, "end": 15130.84}, {"text": "hands to receive all the items for information all in", "start": 15130.84, "end": 15136.199}, {"text": "favor that looks like it carries unanimously can I have a motion for", "start": 15136.72, "end": 15143.399}, {"text": "lunch councelor casar seconded by councelor M Wilson I show", "start": 15143.399, "end": 15150.68}, {"text": "handsy mayor what time would you like to reconvene it's 12 1:30 reconvene at 1:30", "start": 15150.68, "end": 15157}, {"text": "please thank", "start": 15157, "end": 15159.6}, {"text": "you", "start": 15162.119, "end": 15165.119}, {"text": "e", "start": 15192.119, "end": 15195.119}, {"text": "e", "start": 15222.04, "end": 15225.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 15252.04, "end": 15255.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 15282.04, "end": 15285.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 15311.96, "end": 15314.96}, {"text": "e", "start": 15341.92, "end": 15344.92}, {"text": "e", "start": 15371.92, "end": 15374.92}, {"text": "e", "start": 15401.84, "end": 15404.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 15431.84, "end": 15434.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 15461.84, "end": 15464.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 15491.76, "end": 15494.76}, {"text": "e", "start": 15521.72, "end": 15524.72}, {"text": "e", "start": 15551.72, "end": 15554.72}, {"text": "e", "start": 15581.64, "end": 15584.64}, {"text": "e", "start": 15611.64, "end": 15614.64}, {"text": "e", "start": 15641.64, "end": 15644.64}, {"text": "e", "start": 15671.56, "end": 15674.56}, {"text": "e", "start": 15701.52, "end": 15704.52}, {"text": "e", "start": 15731.52, "end": 15734.52}, {"text": "e", "start": 15761.439, "end": 15764.439}, {"text": "e", "start": 15791.439, "end": 15794.439}, {"text": "e", "start": 15821.439, "end": 15824.439}, {"text": "e", "start": 15851.359, "end": 15854.359}, {"text": "e", "start": 15881.319, "end": 15884.319}, {"text": "e", "start": 15911.319, "end": 15914.319}, {"text": "e", "start": 15941.239, "end": 15944.239}, {"text": "e", "start": 15971.239, "end": 15974.239}, {"text": "e", "start": 16001.239, "end": 16004.239}, {"text": "e", "start": 16031.159, "end": 16034.159}, {"text": "e", "start": 16061.119, "end": 16064.119}, {"text": "e", "start": 16091.119, "end": 16094.119}, {"text": "e", "start": 16121.04, "end": 16124.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 16151.04, "end": 16154.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 16181.04, "end": 16184.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 16210.96, "end": 16213.96}, {"text": "e", "start": 16240.92, "end": 16243.92}, {"text": "e", "start": 16270.92, "end": 16273.92}, {"text": "e", "start": 16300.84, "end": 16303.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 16330.84, "end": 16333.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 16360.84, "end": 16363.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 16390.76, "end": 16393.76}, {"text": "e", "start": 16420.719, "end": 16423.719}, {"text": "e", "start": 16450.719, "end": 16453.719}, {"text": "e", "start": 16480.639, "end": 16483.639}, {"text": "e", "start": 16510.639, "end": 16513.639}, {"text": "e", "start": 16540.639, "end": 16543.639}, {"text": "e", "start": 16570.561, "end": 16573.561}, {"text": "e", "start": 16600.52, "end": 16603.52}, {"text": "e", "start": 16630.52, "end": 16633.52}, {"text": "e", "start": 16660.439, "end": 16663.439}, {"text": "e", "start": 16690.439, "end": 16693.439}, {"text": "e", "start": 16720.439, "end": 16723.439}, {"text": "e", "start": 16750.359, "end": 16753.359}, {"text": "e", "start": 16780.32, "end": 16783.32}, {"text": "e", "start": 16810.32, "end": 16813.32}, {"text": "e", "start": 16840.24, "end": 16843.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 16870.24, "end": 16873.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 16900.24, "end": 16903.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 16930.16, "end": 16933.16}, {"text": "e", "start": 16960.12, "end": 16963.12}, {"text": "e", "start": 16990.12, "end": 16993.12}, {"text": "e", "start": 17020.04, "end": 17023.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 17050.04, "end": 17053.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 17080.04, "end": 17083.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 17109.958, "end": 17112.958}, {"text": "e", "start": 17139.92, "end": 17142.92}, {"text": "e", "start": 17169.92, "end": 17172.92}, {"text": "e", "start": 17199.84, "end": 17202.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 17229.84, "end": 17232.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 17259.84, "end": 17262.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 17289.76, "end": 17292.76}, {"text": "e", "start": 17319.718, "end": 17322.718}, {"text": "e", "start": 17349.718, "end": 17352.718}, {"text": "e", "start": 17379.638, "end": 17382.638}, {"text": "e", "start": 17409.638, "end": 17412.638}, {"text": "e", "start": 17439.638, "end": 17442.638}, {"text": "e", "start": 17469.558, "end": 17472.558}, {"text": "e", "start": 17499.52, "end": 17502.52}, {"text": "e e", "start": 17529.52, "end": 17533.52}, {"text": "hello we're returning from lunch we're beginning the", "start": 17578.12, "end": 17584.718}, {"text": "meeting for the general issues committee uh at this time i' just like", "start": 17584.718, "end": 17591}, {"text": "to inform the counselors that we will be moving to electronic votes for items for", "start": 17591, "end": 17598.44}, {"text": "consideration we are now on item 8.1 business Improvement area subcommittee", "start": 17598.44, "end": 17604.92}, {"text": "report 248 November 12th 2024 may I please have a mover and a seconder to", "start": 17604.92, "end": 17611.28}, {"text": "put the report on the floor councelor Wang and councelor cret is there any", "start": 17611.28, "end": 17616.878}, {"text": "discussion on this item not seeing any we will now require an", "start": 17616.878, "end": 17624.638}, {"text": "electronic vote to approve the recommendations please indicate your vote when it", "start": 17624.638, "end": 17631}, {"text": "appears vote is", "start": 17632.76, "end": 17636.16}, {"text": "up councelor Jackson do you want to thumb up on this 8.1 items for", "start": 17647.878, "end": 17654.958}, {"text": "consideration that vote carries 12 to nothing we go to 8.2 business", "start": 17665.28, "end": 17671.52}, {"text": "Improvement area subcommittee report 24-9 December 10th 2024 may I please", "start": 17671.52, "end": 17677.92}, {"text": "have a mover and seconder to put the report on the floor councelor a Wilson and councelor Wayne", "start": 17677.92, "end": 17685.68}, {"text": "is there any discussion on this item at this point not seeing any we", "start": 17685.68, "end": 17692.24}, {"text": "will require an electronic vote to approve the recommendations please indicate your vote now the vote is up", "start": 17692.24, "end": 17700.878}, {"text": "that vote carries 13 to nothing we're going to 8.3 West Harbor development subcommittee", "start": 17715.798, "end": 17722.2}, {"text": "report 24-2 November 26 2024 may I please have", "start": 17722.2, "end": 17727.76}, {"text": "a mover and a seconder to put the report on the floor councelor mcmein councelor spora thank you is there any discussion", "start": 17727.76, "end": 17735.48}, {"text": "on this item West Harbor development subcommittee councelor Dano any", "start": 17735.48, "end": 17742.84}, {"text": "discussion councelor Jackson I was just informing counselor", "start": 17746.44, "end": 17751.718}, {"text": "uh Dano what item we were on as he was as he was entering that's all councelor", "start": 17751.718, "end": 17756.76}, {"text": "Jackson so I I I I I hurt when you hurt no no thank you Deputy Mayor tedison", "start": 17756.76, "end": 17763.878}, {"text": "thank you you know my self-esteem is fragile okay through you please to um is", "start": 17763.878, "end": 17769.878}, {"text": "manager a there he is manager Chris Phillips so if I'm reading the West Harbor development subcommittee report", "start": 17769.878, "end": 17776.84}, {"text": "correctly it basically is further exploring additional opportunities to", "start": 17776.84, "end": 17782.68}, {"text": "provide parking down at the West Harbor between existing development what may be", "start": 17782.68, "end": 17788.4}, {"text": "revised development uh phase development as you know Deputy Mayor ton uh this body I'm", "start": 17788.4, "end": 17795.76}, {"text": "sure is well aware that if you want to bring tourists from Beyond the North End Neighborhood which I'm", "start": 17795.76, "end": 17802.44}, {"text": "very respectful of and the wonderment of what's happened there over the years but if we want to bring tourists it's going", "start": 17802.44, "end": 17808.558}, {"text": "to be hard for them to come from the mountain or suburbs to cycle and to walk that incredibly long distance but they", "start": 17808.558, "end": 17815.798}, {"text": "will drive there to enjoy all the future and current amenities so through you Deputy Mayor tatterson maybe manager", "start": 17815.798, "end": 17821.798}, {"text": "Phillips can give me just a little cursory understanding what's at play through you deputy mayor uh totally", "start": 17821.798, "end": 17829.36}, {"text": "correct Council um this uh this report and seeking uh this approval allows us to uh work with", "start": 17829.36, "end": 17836.718}, {"text": "the development partner waterr Shores to try to find um a a an accommodation of", "start": 17836.718, "end": 17844.4}, {"text": "um of uh consolidating public parking within their private sector development", "start": 17844.4, "end": 17849.798}, {"text": "on per eight will there uh thank you manager Phillips uh", "start": 17849.798, "end": 17854.92}, {"text": "subsequent uh question so um I'm respectful of my colleagues that serve on the subcommittee I don't um how do", "start": 17854.92, "end": 17862.24}, {"text": "you see this unfolding unfolding and time frame do you figure like every hopefully 2 3 months through you and the", "start": 17862.24, "end": 17868.84}, {"text": "subcommittee we'll have some understanding of uh development happening or I just want to get an idea", "start": 17868.84, "end": 17874.6}, {"text": "of time frame so I'm not asking questions unnecessarily uh within a short period of time that's my last", "start": 17874.6, "end": 17879.84}, {"text": "question Deputy Mayor tatterson through you Deputy Mayor um uh we we see the negotiation period being about a year uh", "start": 17879.84, "end": 17887.08}, {"text": "and us being able to come back uh that being said uh it would be well before any development actually takes place", "start": 17887.08, "end": 17894.2}, {"text": "thank you manager Phillips I'm satisfied for now Deputy Mayor tson thank you thank you councelor", "start": 17894.2, "end": 17899.798}, {"text": "Jackson seeing no other is there anyone else on the speaker list councelor", "start": 17899.798, "end": 17907.556}, {"text": "cret Counselor Clark sorry it's not coming up um thank you very much um mayor", "start": 17907.958, "end": 17916.12}, {"text": "tatterson and Council cret I'm I'm just I would like", "start": 17916.12, "end": 17922.24}, {"text": "confirmation that what we are discussing in this agreement is parking where the", "start": 17922.24, "end": 17927.638}, {"text": "revenue will be coming to the city for the for the public parking", "start": 17927.638, "end": 17935.318}, {"text": "lot through you Deputy Mayor um the direction here is to enter into", "start": 17936.12, "end": 17942.798}, {"text": "the negotiation to try to figure out both the capital if there is any and the", "start": 17942.798, "end": 17948.44}, {"text": "operating model so when we bring it back uh to council whatever the outcome of", "start": 17948.44, "end": 17953.48}, {"text": "that negotiation is it would uh it would potentially it would include those elements in it uh going into the", "start": 17953.48, "end": 17960.24}, {"text": "negotiation uh we have not landed on whether or not the city will operate the", "start": 17960.24, "end": 17965.44}, {"text": "parking peray whether the third party would operate it whether it' be some sort of combination um this direction", "start": 17965.44, "end": 17972.36}, {"text": "here is to enter those negotiations so we're talking about 300", "start": 17972.36, "end": 17980.44}, {"text": "public parking spaces do we have an understanding prior to this", "start": 17980.44, "end": 17987.558}, {"text": "negotiation how many parking spaces the proponent is expecting to have under", "start": 17987.558, "end": 17993.44}, {"text": "their control through you Deputy Mayor um first second I'm not sure if Brian", "start": 17993.44, "end": 17999.878}, {"text": "hollingworth is on uh available electronically or not", "start": 17999.878, "end": 18006.36}, {"text": "um I will I will maybe begin on on uh the first stage and then I'll hand it", "start": 18006.36, "end": 18011.76}, {"text": "over to Mr hollingworth uh as well um as it relates to the public parking the", "start": 18011.76, "end": 18017.718}, {"text": "supply the 300 number is actually being established from City staff as to what", "start": 18017.718, "end": 18023.44}, {"text": "the demand is or what we perceive as as the demand that could be accommodated into this this development uh it is not", "start": 18023.44, "end": 18031.16}, {"text": "being led or driven by the developer in fact the the conversation is actually the reverse developer is basically", "start": 18031.16, "end": 18038}, {"text": "stating City of Hamilton you tell us what your need for public parking on Pier 8 is and then we will enter into", "start": 18038, "end": 18045.08}, {"text": "those discussions and that negotiation to accommodate that and therefore try to figure out what the business case is in", "start": 18045.08, "end": 18052.52}, {"text": "order to deliver that perhaps what I can do is pass to a director hollingworth who can uh kind of talk about exactly", "start": 18052.52, "end": 18059.36}, {"text": "how the number of 300 came to", "start": 18059.36, "end": 18063.44}, {"text": "be director Hollingsworth you're on mute", "start": 18064.4, "end": 18069.76}, {"text": "we can't hear", "start": 18078.24, "end": 18080.92}, {"text": "you plug try and plug in your headset or unplug so can I continue with a question", "start": 18084.52, "end": 18091.52}, {"text": "well he's trying to fix his technology go ahead councelor clerk", "start": 18091.52, "end": 18097.2}, {"text": "um I'm trying to remember the discuss discusss that we have had with the", "start": 18097.2, "end": 18102.32}, {"text": "proponents when the developments were approved for the Waterfront and there was discussion", "start": 18102.32, "end": 18109.12}, {"text": "about the amount of parking spaces that would be required by the proponent for", "start": 18109.12, "end": 18114.2}, {"text": "those developments and I'm trying to verify here publicly that the 300 public spaces", "start": 18114.2, "end": 18120.958}, {"text": "that we are discussing here it is your intention to negotiate", "start": 18120.958, "end": 18126.6}, {"text": "with the proponent that this is the city's requirement of 300 parking spaces", "start": 18126.6, "end": 18133.36}, {"text": "and we would take the revenue from those 300 parking spaces is that", "start": 18133.36, "end": 18138.68}, {"text": "correct through through the chair I'll takeen another attempt at this if that makes is it if I'm on go ahead director", "start": 18138.68, "end": 18146.24}, {"text": "Hollingsworth did you hear the question from coun sir I heard the question and and my apologies um again Brian", "start": 18146.24, "end": 18153.08}, {"text": "hollingworth director of Transportation uh planning and parking um just to through you to councelor Clark the", "start": 18153.08, "end": 18159.32}, {"text": "assumption is say that the the development Waterfront Shores will provide for its own parking uh so uh", "start": 18159.32, "end": 18166.12}, {"text": "there was a parking study done back uh a few years ago to look at the the parking rate um and it would be in line with", "start": 18166.12, "end": 18174.16}, {"text": "market trends um and their own supply for for residents in any commercial uh", "start": 18174.16, "end": 18179.84}, {"text": "development associated with with Waterfront Shores um in terms of the broader public parking question um we've", "start": 18179.84, "end": 18186.798}, {"text": "done some demand estimates which are included for reference appendix C but just in summary the the main changes are", "start": 18186.798, "end": 18193.638}, {"text": "that uh as a result of the development some of the existing surface parking will be displaced so that's a loss in", "start": 18193.638, "end": 18199.718}, {"text": "parking uh plus there's proposed development on peers six and and seven and some other kind of public uses so", "start": 18199.718, "end": 18206.638}, {"text": "we've done our our estimates um we we have identified a need for uh somewhere", "start": 18206.638, "end": 18212.16}, {"text": "in the order of potentially 500 public parking spaces so the 300 would be less from that and and you know it's just one", "start": 18212.16, "end": 18219.4}, {"text": "alter for securing public parking and with respect to the question about who will operate as uh director Phillips", "start": 18219.4, "end": 18226.878}, {"text": "mentioned it's still you know up for negotiation but our um thinking is that it would be public parking operated by", "start": 18226.878, "end": 18233.92}, {"text": "Hamilton Municipal parking system if there's a uh model that allows us to make Revenue off", "start": 18233.92, "end": 18240.08}, {"text": "that thank you I just wanted to verify that that was the case thank you very", "start": 18240.08, "end": 18245.12}, {"text": "much okay thanks councelor Clerk councelor crch", "start": 18245.12, "end": 18251.122}, {"text": "thanks Deputy Mayor tedison so I won't Bel the point just wanted to add maybe something I think that was the main", "start": 18251.68, "end": 18257.12}, {"text": "discussion we had at the committee subcommittee was around the fact that what city staff's trying to do is", "start": 18257.12, "end": 18262.558}, {"text": "actually amalgamate some of this parking into one space that's the big story here I think and the thing we should be taking away from it is that previously", "start": 18262.558, "end": 18269.76}, {"text": "and I think this has been a challenge in War II for a very long time is there's too many surface parking lots here so when we incorporate parking into new", "start": 18269.76, "end": 18275.878}, {"text": "developments what happens is we reduce the need for surface level parking which simply just sits there adds to the storm", "start": 18275.878, "end": 18281.76}, {"text": "water management issues we have and so on and so forth and so the plan here is to try and try and use the underground", "start": 18281.76, "end": 18288}, {"text": "parking that we've got as part of the development to expand our own parking offerings as a city number one number", "start": 18288, "end": 18293.28}, {"text": "two is to look at um how we can increase transit to these spaces look at shuttles those kinds of things to help people", "start": 18293.28, "end": 18299.52}, {"text": "from other parts of the city to reach these amenities we talk about that I've had conversations with Transit at a really preliminary stage about what it", "start": 18299.52, "end": 18305.718}, {"text": "looks like to get to other other places right there City other Recreation areas like Dundas Valley Conservation Area", "start": 18305.718, "end": 18312.32}, {"text": "those kinds of things from different parts of our city what does it look like to do that activity so this is all part and parcel with that discussion as well", "start": 18312.32, "end": 18318.24}, {"text": "trying to make sure people can get easy access to the Waterfront without making it an urban nightmare what I mean by Urban nightmare is urban heat nightmare", "start": 18318.24, "end": 18325.28}, {"text": "because the North End Neighborhood is the number one neighborhood in this entire city with the highest Urban heat", "start": 18325.28, "end": 18330.4}, {"text": "impacts according to a CBC study so we want to make sure we do everything we can to make it Greener less hot and more", "start": 18330.4, "end": 18336.28}, {"text": "enjoyable for everybody who spends time there thanks thanks for that background counselor cret at this point I don't see", "start": 18336.28, "end": 18343.52}, {"text": "anyone else so we will require an electronic vote to approve the recommendations please indicate your", "start": 18343.52, "end": 18349.28}, {"text": "vote now the vote is", "start": 18349.28, "end": 18354.122}, {"text": "up it's electronic vote", "start": 18354.92, "end": 18359.76}, {"text": "that vote carries 15 to nothing we're going to 8.4 non-union", "start": 18377.68, "end": 18383.68}, {"text": "compensation subcommittee meeting or minutes uh", "start": 18383.68, "end": 18389.12}, {"text": "NCC 25001 January 10th 2025 may I please have a mover and a", "start": 18389.12, "end": 18396.16}, {"text": "seconder to put the report on the floor councelor Wang at saw you adjust your hair so that's good for me and councelor", "start": 18396.16, "end": 18404.24}, {"text": "a Wilson thank you is there any discussion on this", "start": 18404.24, "end": 18409.36}, {"text": "item surveying not seeing any we will require an electronic vote to approve the recommendations it's up now", "start": 18409.36, "end": 18419.04}, {"text": "that vote carries 15 to nothing we're going to go to 8.5 2025 tax supported", "start": 18431.76, "end": 18438.04}, {"text": "user fees we're going to go to GM ziger he's going to share some info on this", "start": 18438.04, "end": 18444.32}, {"text": "item so sorry through the deputy mayor if we could just get a mover and seconder to put it on the floor first if that would be okay may I have a mover", "start": 18444.32, "end": 18451.12}, {"text": "and a seconder to put the report on the floor first thank you councelor Wang councelor", "start": 18451.12, "end": 18457.68}, {"text": "casar I appreciate that is there any discussion on this I not we're going to go to GM ziger", "start": 18457.68, "end": 18466.24}, {"text": "first thanks through you Mr Deputy Mayor the report that's before you is our 2025", "start": 18466.24, "end": 18472.24}, {"text": "user fee reports uh and this user fee report captures the majority of programs", "start": 18472.24, "end": 18478.48}, {"text": "and services that the City offers where we leverage user fees as a funding", "start": 18478.48, "end": 18484.28}, {"text": "source to deliver some some of the programs and the associated cost", "start": 18484.28, "end": 18490.08}, {"text": "you'll see in the report that uh staff are proposing a series of user fees that", "start": 18490.08, "end": 18496.718}, {"text": "would represent a increase in revenues of approximately just short of $5 million $4.95 million in", "start": 18496.718, "end": 18505.76}, {"text": "2025 uh and that represents an increase of about 3.8% uh the report speaks to some user", "start": 18505.76, "end": 18513.44}, {"text": "fees that are increasing at a rate greater than the uh guideline of three", "start": 18513.44, "end": 18519.638}, {"text": "3.8% and 3.8% was used leveraged as that was the uh inflation rate as of June", "start": 18519.638, "end": 18526.798}, {"text": "2024 when staff undertook the development of the user fees some user", "start": 18526.798, "end": 18532.12}, {"text": "fees uh are being proposed to either stay frozen at the 2024 rate uh or", "start": 18532.12, "end": 18539.798}, {"text": "adjusted for market and those are described in the report and in appendix", "start": 18539.798, "end": 18544.958}, {"text": "a um just wanting to highlight and we've been working with the clerk's office really appreciating the support from the", "start": 18544.958, "end": 18550.958}, {"text": "clerk's office today appendix c as was submitted uh included a clerical air", "start": 18550.958, "end": 18558.16}, {"text": "appendix C is a new appendix to this report it highlights the new fees and", "start": 18558.16, "end": 18563.6}, {"text": "charges and there is a series of new fees and charges that were omitted and so we've submitted a revised appendix SE", "start": 18563.6, "end": 18571.958}, {"text": "to the clerk in addition there was one user fee that staff are recommending the", "start": 18571.958, "end": 18578.16}, {"text": "stricken from appendix a that is a user fee a new user fee relating to uh Road", "start": 18578.16, "end": 18587.16}, {"text": "cleanup uh pertaining to the seat program and given that there's an outstanding report related to the seat", "start": 18587.16, "end": 18594.16}, {"text": "program and road closures staff uh are proposing that we strike that user fee", "start": 18594.16, "end": 18600.24}, {"text": "until such time as committees had abroader conversations surrounding the seat program and the associated costs", "start": 18600.24, "end": 18606.6}, {"text": "and cost recovery model for the seat program so uh again apologize for the", "start": 18606.6, "end": 18612.76}, {"text": "error with respect to appendix C and uh and we have a revised appendix C", "start": 18612.76, "end": 18619.558}, {"text": "capturing the comprehensive list of new fees and charges and a revised appendix", "start": 18619.558, "end": 18626.08}, {"text": "a which strikes that one user fee uh and through you uh Deputy Mayor if committee", "start": 18626.08, "end": 18632.52}, {"text": "members have any questions regarding the fees and charges uh staff are happy to try to answer those questions today", "start": 18632.52, "end": 18639.04}, {"text": "thank thank you okay so the item is on the floor and I see that councelor a Wilson is first", "start": 18639.04, "end": 18646.558}, {"text": "on the speaker list thank you uh we've had lots of", "start": 18646.558, "end": 18653.68}, {"text": "conversations today through you Deputy Mayor about how we fund programs and services in our city user fees being the", "start": 18653.68, "end": 18660.16}, {"text": "the other mechanism property taxes being the primary one uh one of the user fees", "start": 18660.16, "end": 18665.638}, {"text": "uh that's set at Cost recovery for the city uh is the Meals on Wheels program", "start": 18665.638, "end": 18671.76}, {"text": "through Wentworth Lodge the community service provider done us community services that provides", "start": 18671.76, "end": 18677.44}, {"text": "those meals offers them at a further subsidize rate below what they're paying from the city to seniors in the", "start": 18677.44, "end": 18682.878}, {"text": "community um just pointing out that uh this is cost recovery for us we're not formally subsidizing this program but", "start": 18682.878, "end": 18688.4}, {"text": "any fee increases are either a cost increase to the seniors relying on that program a reduction in the meals", "start": 18688.4, "end": 18695.6}, {"text": "guaranteed or an increase in the subsidy the nonprofit has to put in they get lots of funding from the city through CF", "start": 18695.6, "end": 18702.24}, {"text": "and other types of things and so there's a cyclical relationship lots of conversations going", "start": 18702.24, "end": 18707.44}, {"text": "on with some SLT members and staff about how we in the longer term explore this relationship um but just documenting", "start": 18707.44, "end": 18714.08}, {"text": "that there um as we've put out some money for food share we've put out some money for food security we're staking our ground these are some priorities", "start": 18714.08, "end": 18720}, {"text": "that matter um yet as we do cost recovery on user fees and increase that", "start": 18720, "end": 18725.44}, {"text": "it's it's having an impact on service providers there so just drawing attention to some of that impact uh going to be trying to work with staff", "start": 18725.44, "end": 18731.4}, {"text": "offline to find some solutions that might work with this specific organization um this is relatively minor in the big user fee file um but just", "start": 18731.4, "end": 18738.718}, {"text": "wanted to draw some attention to that uh no questions for me at the time I think I've been able to follow up with staff", "start": 18738.718, "end": 18743.958}, {"text": "with respect to that thank you thank you councelor Wilson we'll now go to councelor spatap for thank you deputy", "start": 18743.958, "end": 18751.16}, {"text": "mayor uh just a question for clarification to GM ziger this user fee", "start": 18751.16, "end": 18757.04}, {"text": "includes uh ice rates through you Deputy Mayor through the chair it does include", "start": 18757.04, "end": 18763.36}, {"text": "our Recreation programs so uh counselor", "start": 18763.36, "end": 18768.6}, {"text": "or Deputy Mayor tatterson either I can abstain on the", "start": 18768.6, "end": 18773.878}, {"text": "entire uh report or I would abstain if we are able to separate the ice rate", "start": 18773.878, "end": 18780.32}, {"text": "user feet increase um up to clerks how they want to do that thank", "start": 18780.32, "end": 18787.08}, {"text": "you what's your choice Clerks can we can we pull that", "start": 18787.08, "end": 18792.2}, {"text": "out through the deputy mayor uh we might be able to but it looks like cler TR", "start": 18792.798, "end": 18799.92}, {"text": "would like to address the issue I'll I'll put it to you chair to", "start": 18799.92, "end": 18806.6}, {"text": "make the determination uh it is possible just not the easiest resolution to separate out so my recommendation might", "start": 18806.6, "end": 18813.32}, {"text": "be to declare based on the whole thing but we'll leave it to you and the counselor", "start": 18813.32, "end": 18819.68}, {"text": "okay so you'll abstain I'll obstain on the whole thing but knowing publicly the only reason I'm abstaining is for ice", "start": 18822.798, "end": 18828.92}, {"text": "user fees not anything else okay are there oh counselor", "start": 18828.92, "end": 18836.558}, {"text": "Jackson this is uh becoming a habit oh councelor Jackson that's okay deputy", "start": 18836.558, "end": 18842.08}, {"text": "mayor tatterson uh thank you um so um my main concern always with user fees is on", "start": 18842.08, "end": 18848.48}, {"text": "the rec ational side so if either acting director Weaver who authored this report", "start": 18848.48, "end": 18854.44}, {"text": "or if acting director Steve seavor of recreation is available I would like to", "start": 18854.44, "end": 18861.16}, {"text": "ask and just get some clarity first of all I would like to um if acting director seavor or", "start": 18861.16, "end": 18868.68}, {"text": "um um I guess I'll leave it with that if he or a designate is available I want to", "start": 18868.68, "end": 18873.798}, {"text": "get a general understanding because I've always been very conscious and considerate about what I call the the", "start": 18873.798, "end": 18879.16}, {"text": "3as for all of our recreational programs for everyday families and that is", "start": 18879.16, "end": 18884.76}, {"text": "accessibility affordability and availability that they can use taxpayer", "start": 18884.76, "end": 18890.04}, {"text": "paid for Arenas rec centers playground equipments Etc can the acting director", "start": 18890.04, "end": 18895.558}, {"text": "give me some indication in light of the past two years of basically rate of inflation increases how are what is the", "start": 18895.558, "end": 18902.84}, {"text": "um participation is the as the user amount basically holding its own", "start": 18902.84, "end": 18909.52}, {"text": "the last thing I want to hear is that there's been a tremendous decrease due to potential user fee increases if you", "start": 18909.52, "end": 18916.2}, {"text": "get the gist deputy mayor tatterson of what I'm asking please I've got the gist thank", "start": 18916.2, "end": 18922.76}, {"text": "you oh I'm sorry G manager buron humblest apologies thank you gentl manager burden thank you um Angie Burton", "start": 18922.76, "end": 18930.558}, {"text": "general manager of community services through you Deputy Mayor to the counselor uh my understanding is that", "start": 18930.558, "end": 18936.2}, {"text": "user fees or user uh rates continue as per usual um and has not been", "start": 18936.2, "end": 18943.638}, {"text": "significantly impacted by the uh incremental increases in user fees uh we", "start": 18943.638, "end": 18950.36}, {"text": "also want to make sure that council is aware that there is a recreation assistance program for families that", "start": 18950.36, "end": 18956.24}, {"text": "fall below the lowincome uh measure and there are", "start": 18956.24, "end": 18961.6}, {"text": "opportunities for free participation passes for dropin programs free passes and opportunities for drop in public", "start": 18961.6, "end": 18968.16}, {"text": "skates discounts off registered programs uh 90% up to $150 per child and 50%", "start": 18968.16, "end": 18977.4}, {"text": "discount off Affiliated minor sport League registration and 65% discounts", "start": 18977.4, "end": 18982.878}, {"text": "off Camp program so we are really well aware of the affordability Challenge and", "start": 18982.878, "end": 18989.44}, {"text": "and uh strive to ensure that our programs are as accessible as possible to our residents GM Bon that uh is music", "start": 18989.44, "end": 18996.2}, {"text": "to my ears raises my comfort level thank you that was going to be a subsequent question about subsidization programs", "start": 18996.2, "end": 19001.76}, {"text": "that are still in place uh for those with the least amount of uh disposable income can you just clarify for me JM", "start": 19001.76, "end": 19009.4}, {"text": "Burton just a couple of statements so that I'm clear page six of the report uh", "start": 19009.4, "end": 19015.878}, {"text": "halfway down most of the fees for recreational programs Deputy Mayor are subject to market conditions and user", "start": 19015.878, "end": 19023.32}, {"text": "fee revenues have risen by 11.2% compared to last year can you give", "start": 19023.32, "end": 19029.48}, {"text": "me some explanation what that means about market conditions that wording just threw me off through you Deputy", "start": 19029.48, "end": 19034.84}, {"text": "Mayor tson JM Burton thank you through you", "start": 19034.84, "end": 19039.958}, {"text": "Deputy Mayor to the counselor so when we look at uh non-municipal", "start": 19039.958, "end": 19046.76}, {"text": "operated programs in the community we are uh conscious that we continue to", "start": 19046.76, "end": 19052.48}, {"text": "subsidize many of our programs and so staff look to strike a balance between", "start": 19052.48, "end": 19058.6}, {"text": "what what it cost to operate a program Recreation programs are not full cost recovery in many instances and so you", "start": 19058.6, "end": 19066.28}, {"text": "will see that while many user fees uh were increased by", "start": 19066.28, "end": 19071.48}, {"text": "3.6% across the board we're looking at 4% increases marginally above that 3.6%", "start": 19071.48, "end": 19079.12}, {"text": "to reflect some of the increase in costs um there are", "start": 19079.12, "end": 19084.32}, {"text": "certain uh fees for example in camps there was a huge uh increase in", "start": 19084.32, "end": 19090}, {"text": "transportation so our camp fees have increased by 10% still is not full cost", "start": 19090, "end": 19095.68}, {"text": "recovery but we're really trying to strike that balance of reflecting um those increase so that it's not born on", "start": 19095.68, "end": 19103.558}, {"text": "uh the the taxpayer exclusively but really is a user um there's a a ratio", "start": 19103.558, "end": 19110.52}, {"text": "there where users are paying thank you for that explanation and very informative I just had one more question", "start": 19110.52, "end": 19115.798}, {"text": "Deputy Mayor tasson may I please yes thank you um JM Burton on appendix a", "start": 19115.798, "end": 19121.84}, {"text": "page 53 of 91 again just help me understand the language uh you spoke to", "start": 19121.84, "end": 19128.28}, {"text": "the some will be above the 3.8% uh guideline here's one adult Fitness Aqua", "start": 19128.28, "end": 19133.718}, {"text": "spinning program 1H hour class increase above the 4% it's at five to account for", "start": 19133.718, "end": 19140.08}, {"text": "increase in quote direct Service delivery cause again can you explain to", "start": 19140.08, "end": 19145.24}, {"text": "me what that means please cuz to me the programs swimming up otherwise they're all at our rec centers that the", "start": 19145.24, "end": 19150.6}, {"text": "municipality owns maybe you can just explain that and that's my last question Deputy Mayor thank you uh through you Deputy", "start": 19150.6, "end": 19157.44}, {"text": "Mayor to the counselor I will have to get back to you on that specific uh example and happy to do that afterwards", "start": 19157.44, "end": 19164}, {"text": "thank you counselor thanks Jan bur thank you Deputy Mayor and overall I'm supportive of this report thank you", "start": 19164, "end": 19169.04}, {"text": "thank you councelor Jackson councelor Wang thank you Deputy Mayor um I have", "start": 19169.04, "end": 19175.6}, {"text": "two questions uh reading this uh 91 page appendix a has been a joy thank you um", "start": 19175.6, "end": 19185.48}, {"text": "one of the items that kind of stuck out was uh we are charging $15 for floppy", "start": 19185.48, "end": 19192.04}, {"text": "discs um for the record search so I just wanted to understand like for floppy", "start": 19192.04, "end": 19197.28}, {"text": "discs I'm pretty sure to even get a floppy disc it's like $35 now so I just", "start": 19197.28, "end": 19204.32}, {"text": "I wanted to the the Crux of my question is when do we do this type of like sort of evaluation how do we um how do we how", "start": 19204.32, "end": 19214.16}, {"text": "do we um do we do this often in order for us to go through all of our user fees and just see how relevant they are", "start": 19214.16, "end": 19220.798}, {"text": "for today clerk tranum uh through you uh", "start": 19220.798, "end": 19226.16}, {"text": "chair uh I agree the language is Antiquated at best it comes directly from the municipal Freedom of", "start": 19226.16, "end": 19231.76}, {"text": "Information and protection of privacy act which is from the 9s and has not been updated uh so our language align", "start": 19231.76, "end": 19239.16}, {"text": "with that and information requests align with the recoverable costs associated with information requests for Freedom of", "start": 19239.16, "end": 19245.718}, {"text": "Information request so I think that that's still I appreciate that answer and I understand I'm just asking like", "start": 19245.718, "end": 19251.638}, {"text": "what is the frequency or what is the Cadence in which we actually do a full review as to all of the different line", "start": 19251.638, "end": 19258.12}, {"text": "items that are in this when we talk about user fees and I know we do this every year because we always look at the", "start": 19258.12, "end": 19265.2}, {"text": "prices definitely I'm just thinking about it value for money sort of", "start": 19265.2, "end": 19271.2}, {"text": "opportunity GM Zer yeah through the deputy mayor uh the council is correct it is on an annual basis and uh as in", "start": 19271.2, "end": 19279.718}, {"text": "the case of 2025 you'll see some new user fees where um staff have identified", "start": 19279.718, "end": 19286.28}, {"text": "a demand for a service that has an Associated cost where there may not be a user fee and there's a rationale for a", "start": 19286.28, "end": 19293.36}, {"text": "user fee in the past we've um eliminated some user fees and that the service is", "start": 19293.36, "end": 19299.84}, {"text": "no longer required uh or the or Council", "start": 19299.84, "end": 19304.92}, {"text": "has approved some Service delivery change in terms of how that service is", "start": 19304.92, "end": 19310.04}, {"text": "delivered so short answer is annually um departments do go through and review", "start": 19310.04, "end": 19316.44}, {"text": "whether or not there's still a rationale for offering the service and Associated", "start": 19316.44, "end": 19321.76}, {"text": "user fee and in some cases we propose some new user fees which are included in", "start": 19321.76, "end": 19327.12}, {"text": "appendix C thank you my last question through you Deputy Mayor I can't find", "start": 19327.12, "end": 19332.24}, {"text": "the page as to which this I saw it on but I think it was under building", "start": 19332.24, "end": 19337.32}, {"text": "department and there we charge for essentially not showing up", "start": 19337.32, "end": 19344.84}, {"text": "to any type of proceedings or anything like that so I wanted to", "start": 19344.84, "end": 19351.638}, {"text": "understand um how do we determine like Say Non", "start": 19351.638, "end": 19359.52}, {"text": "appearance uh they're not that the client might not be adhering to the", "start": 19359.52, "end": 19366.36}, {"text": "timelines like what like it's very similar to the idea of late fees but like the idea that we have to have a", "start": 19366.36, "end": 19372.958}, {"text": "person that is attending say court and if the client doesn't show up how do we", "start": 19372.958, "end": 19379.52}, {"text": "charge for something like that and what is the rationale for determining that line item because I thought it was again", "start": 19379.52, "end": 19385.48}, {"text": "I can't find the page that it's on but it felt like it was really low for something that we're we're already", "start": 19385.48, "end": 19392.12}, {"text": "paying our people to be at court and yet the client doesn't show up so how does that calculation get", "start": 19392.12, "end": 19399.558}, {"text": "done GM Zer yeah through through the chair we'll have to Circle back uh and", "start": 19399.718, "end": 19406.16}, {"text": "if if the counselor can uh find that specific user fee and and send that uh I", "start": 19406.16, "end": 19412.76}, {"text": "will say that within the user fee schedule appendix a you will see some", "start": 19412.76, "end": 19417.84}, {"text": "user fee fees whereby there is a uh a fee or charge as it relates to a level", "start": 19417.84, "end": 19425.32}, {"text": "of service or response and in some cases it reflects the cost associated with", "start": 19425.32, "end": 19431.36}, {"text": "that response and so you'll see in 24 2025 some changes as it relates to fire", "start": 19431.36, "end": 19437.12}, {"text": "service whereby they go through that exercise and in some cases the fear", "start": 19437.12, "end": 19442.16}, {"text": "charge escalates and as the response is a reoccurring unnecessary response the", "start": 19442.16, "end": 19449.718}, {"text": "fee is somewhat punitive to encourage A Change by the user to remedy or Rectify", "start": 19449.718, "end": 19456.92}, {"text": "what's triggering the need for the response so sorry for that that broader response but just as an example of how", "start": 19456.92, "end": 19464.48}, {"text": "the user fees reflect uh an example where there is a cost Associated by by a", "start": 19464.48, "end": 19472.4}, {"text": "response and how we try to capture that cost within the user fee thank you", "start": 19472.4, "end": 19479.12}, {"text": "thank you councelor Wang councelor clerk thank you Deputy Mayor my first", "start": 19479.12, "end": 19485.718}, {"text": "question is um the definition for full cost", "start": 19485.718, "end": 19490.84}, {"text": "recovery so I've seen it a number of times in these reports full cost recovery full cost recovery my", "start": 19490.84, "end": 19498.958}, {"text": "understanding in the past um um Deputy Mayor is that we really couldn't hit", "start": 19498.958, "end": 19505.76}, {"text": "full cost recovery without risk risking a challenge through the judicial system so", "start": 19505.76, "end": 19513.04}, {"text": "we were close to full cost recovery but we didn't quite hit full cost recovery", "start": 19513.04, "end": 19518.558}, {"text": "are we still doing that or have we now adopted a mindset that it doesn't matter what the cost is whatever the full cost", "start": 19518.558, "end": 19525.76}, {"text": "is That's What the residents or the businesses are going to pay through you Mr Deputy Mayor I'll", "start": 19525.76, "end": 19532.638}, {"text": "I'll start uh and then I'll ask Steve maybe to to expand I think uh councelor Clark is making", "start": 19532.638, "end": 19539.08}, {"text": "part reference to there are some user fees that are not captured in this user fee report and that they follow a", "start": 19539.08, "end": 19544.718}, {"text": "separate process and those are listed on page 28 and that's building permit fees planning and growth management fees and", "start": 19544.718, "end": 19551.52}, {"text": "Hamilton far Farmers Market fees I'll I'll started and then Steve's the expert", "start": 19551.52, "end": 19556.76}, {"text": "in terms of the process that they follow with an external consultant who does some work in terms of identifying all", "start": 19556.76, "end": 19564.558}, {"text": "the costs associated uh in delivering the service by staff and that's may be", "start": 19564.558, "end": 19570.32}, {"text": "Beyond employee related costs but include accommodation costs facility costs or what we call as chargebacks and", "start": 19570.32, "end": 19578.958}, {"text": "now I'm not going to go any further because I think this is Steve's expertise so I'll invite Steve in terms", "start": 19578.958, "end": 19585.16}, {"text": "of where there may be restrictions of applying the full cost relative to a market rate I appreciate that uh for you", "start": 19585.16, "end": 19592.28}, {"text": "Mr chairman to the counselor Mr Mr Zer is correct when we do the annual fee", "start": 19592.28, "end": 19597.48}, {"text": "reviews or we do look in building department or within the planning and economic development department they do", "start": 19597.48, "end": 19602.52}, {"text": "a review every 3 to five years it is based on activity-based costing where we", "start": 19602.52, "end": 19607.798}, {"text": "took take a look at staff in terms of what staff are involved in the processing of a development application or a building permit and how much time", "start": 19607.798, "end": 19614.798}, {"text": "does it take for them to deal with an application on average there are costs", "start": 19614.798, "end": 19619.92}, {"text": "it can only be those costs related to the actual processing of a building permit application or development", "start": 19619.92, "end": 19626.2}, {"text": "application so the salary and then that is used to offset salary and other", "start": 19626.2, "end": 19632.52}, {"text": "operating costs but it cannot be 100% cost recovery for the operation of a department because there are services", "start": 19632.52, "end": 19639.4}, {"text": "that we provide that are not related to a development application so that may be somebody coming in and just inquiring", "start": 19639.4, "end": 19645.52}, {"text": "about the zoning on a property um they may be look at making some pre-consultation or some early inquiries", "start": 19645.52, "end": 19651.558}, {"text": "thinking about doing something but they have not yet formally submitted an application both the planning Act and", "start": 19651.558, "end": 19657.52}, {"text": "the building code are very clear as to what we can and cannot charge for so it is the staff time it is the overhead", "start": 19657.52, "end": 19664}, {"text": "associated with that staff so we do make certain assumptions about in terms of computer equipment licenses as well as", "start": 19664, "end": 19671.52}, {"text": "some of the training that is required for those staff but it is does not mean that um those departments are a 100% fee", "start": 19671.52, "end": 19679.2}, {"text": "recoverable because there are a component of their day-to-day activities that relate both to protection of the", "start": 19679.2, "end": 19685.4}, {"text": "public good and the public interest Andor in terms of are just assisting the public with General inquiries that are", "start": 19685.4, "end": 19691.16}, {"text": "above and beyond the costs associated with Pro uh the processing of a development application we do have to", "start": 19691.16, "end": 19697.2}, {"text": "make sure or building permit and we do have to make sure that those costs that are incorporated into the fee bylaw are", "start": 19697.2, "end": 19702.558}, {"text": "directly related to the processing of those applications because proponents of it can always challenge the fee either", "start": 19702.558, "end": 19708.84}, {"text": "to the Ontario land tribunal or to the courts if they feel that we' built into cost considerations that are not related", "start": 19708.84, "end": 19715.718}, {"text": "to the processing of development applications and then finally there have been considerations where Council has made a", "start": 19715.718, "end": 19722.12}, {"text": "determination to do a reduction in the fee because they feel that there is a public benefit or public good to that so", "start": 19722.12, "end": 19728.16}, {"text": "for example a couple of years ago they had reduced some of the fees around secondary dwelling units while we were in the process of updating the zoning if", "start": 19728.16, "end": 19734.6}, {"text": "somebody had to go for a minor variance because they knew that the long-term objective of the city was to address", "start": 19734.6, "end": 19740.24}, {"text": "some of those zoning bylock regulations that were currently seen as a barrier at that point in time and they would need", "start": 19740.24, "end": 19745.958}, {"text": "to go to the committee of adjustment for relief in knowing that the direction that we were proceeding so in those", "start": 19745.958, "end": 19751}, {"text": "cases the fees are reduced um until such time as we catch up with the zoning by", "start": 19751, "end": 19756.12}, {"text": "Law changes which would then eliminate the need for people to be going to the committee of adjustment for those elements thank", "start": 19756.12, "end": 19762}, {"text": "you thank you so we are not doing full cost recovery we are doing activity", "start": 19762, "end": 19769}, {"text": "based costing and the results of that will be very close to full cost recovery", "start": 19769, "end": 19774.84}, {"text": "but may not hit the total cuz we're in essence we're we're using our own staff to do some of this work through you Mr", "start": 19774.84, "end": 19782}, {"text": "chairman that would be a correct summation the way that the fees are calculated thank you thank you another", "start": 19782, "end": 19787.638}, {"text": "question I heard the ding um appendix a page one of", "start": 19787.638, "end": 19793.878}, {"text": "91 routine disclosure of building division records now in the past Council", "start": 19793.878, "end": 19800.958}, {"text": "we approved policies about routine disclosure to ensure that the public could get access to certain records that", "start": 19800.958, "end": 19808.68}, {"text": "should be routinely available to the public if I'm reading this right we're", "start": 19808.68, "end": 19815.28}, {"text": "suggesting an 82% increase in the costs", "start": 19815.28, "end": 19820.4}, {"text": "for a re routine disclosure application for the first 15 minutes and after that", "start": 19820.4, "end": 19826.92}, {"text": "it would be uh $25 for every 15 minutes so can I get clarification I was under", "start": 19826.92, "end": 19833.958}, {"text": "the impression that when we made that decision to have rou disclosure that anyone from the public", "start": 19833.958, "end": 19840.84}, {"text": "could reach out to the city and say I'd like to take a look at that building permit and that building permit was", "start": 19840.84, "end": 19847.76}, {"text": "going to be available now it looks like you can get it but you got to get it by paying", "start": 19847.76, "end": 19854.12}, {"text": "money can I get clarification general manager uh you Mr", "start": 19854.12, "end": 19861.12}, {"text": "chairman to the councelor I will have to confirm with the Chief Building official but was my understanding that the this", "start": 19861.12, "end": 19866.84}, {"text": "cost is essentially the the staff cost to retrieve the record and or to make a copy of that record so that it would be", "start": 19866.84, "end": 19873.44}, {"text": "made available to the individual most of the building per older building permit files are either in micro or they are", "start": 19873.44, "end": 19879.798}, {"text": "paper based files so it is simply reflecting the staff time to retrieve the record and then uh make the", "start": 19879.798, "end": 19886.16}, {"text": "necessary copy so that the individual can then have the information they are seeking it is my understanding that has", "start": 19886.16, "end": 19891.6}, {"text": "been a practice within the building department for a long time and that nothing is really changing here other than to adjust the cost to do that", "start": 19891.6, "end": 19898.28}, {"text": "record retention I can say though as part of the redesign of our permanent", "start": 19898.28, "end": 19904.638}, {"text": "tracking system we are looking at making it more transparent and open to the public so it reduces the amount of time", "start": 19904.638, "end": 19910.24}, {"text": "and energy required to get that information or retrieve that information thank you thank you I would suggest and", "start": 19910.24, "end": 19918.52}, {"text": "and the mayor is present that perhaps the task force look at how we deal with routine disclosure of records and", "start": 19918.52, "end": 19925.24}, {"text": "whether or not resident should be paying for those um disclosures I think that", "start": 19925.24, "end": 19930.36}, {"text": "would be important beyond that I I I did not see anything that really jumped out that I was a concern for me so I I will", "start": 19930.36, "end": 19937.84}, {"text": "support uh this this uh proposal and I want to thank staff", "start": 19937.84, "end": 19944.48}, {"text": "because you need to understand the depth to which they go to create just this", "start": 19944.48, "end": 19950.2}, {"text": "document itself I know it's only 91 pages but it's every fee that we charge", "start": 19950.2, "end": 19956.04}, {"text": "within the city and every fee has has been reviewed and here's the recommendation so thank you very much to", "start": 19956.04, "end": 19962.08}, {"text": "our staff thank you councelor Clark I see no more discussion on the", "start": 19962.08, "end": 19969.558}, {"text": "item so we will require an electronic vote I'll remind councelor spor that", "start": 19969.558, "end": 19975.48}, {"text": "he's abstaining uh let's go to the electronic vote", "start": 19975.48, "end": 19982.08}, {"text": "that vote carries 14 to zero with one", "start": 20001.638, "end": 20006.558}, {"text": "abstention going to 8.6 business Improvement areas Board of man Board of", "start": 20009.28, "end": 20015.718}, {"text": "management changes may I please have a mover in second to put reports 8.6a and", "start": 20015.718, "end": 20021}, {"text": "8.6b on the floor councelor Wilson a Wilson and councelor spatap for thank", "start": 20021, "end": 20028.682}, {"text": "you is there any discussion on the", "start": 20028.76, "end": 20033.4}, {"text": "items seeing none we'll go to the electronic vote", "start": 20036.878, "end": 20043.796}, {"text": "that vote carries 15 to nothing 8.7 business Improvement areas", "start": 20058.2, "end": 20063.878}, {"text": "2025 budgets and schedule of payments may I please have a mover and seconder to put reports 8.7 a through 8.7g on the", "start": 20063.878, "end": 20071.36}, {"text": "floor councelor Wilson councelor mcmakin", "start": 20071.36, "end": 20077.12}, {"text": "are there any discussions on those", "start": 20080.638, "end": 20084.4}, {"text": "items councelor Wilson you adjusted your glasses that was not a hand up correct thank", "start": 20087.28, "end": 20093.84}, {"text": "you okay so we'll go to the electronic vote", "start": 20093.84, "end": 20099.32}, {"text": "that vote carries 15 to nothing I believe we're on 8.8 climate", "start": 20114.6, "end": 20122.76}, {"text": "change advisory committee citizens committee report December 17 2024 may I please have a mover and", "start": 20122.76, "end": 20128.958}, {"text": "seconder councelor a Wilson counselor", "start": 20128.958, "end": 20135.282}, {"text": "cret is there any discussion on on this", "start": 20135.558, "end": 20139.92}, {"text": "item councelor Clark thank you deputy mayor in the", "start": 20141.52, "end": 20147.08}, {"text": "report there's a recommendation that any surplus funds for the climate change advisory committee budget be transferred", "start": 20147.08, "end": 20153.36}, {"text": "back to the climate change Reserve fund is that something that this Council needs to approve or is that something", "start": 20153.36, "end": 20160.04}, {"text": "that this committee can approve on their own GM zarck", "start": 20160.04, "end": 20168.2}, {"text": "through the chair that is a recommendation and would require committee approval and so Deputy chair is it if we", "start": 20168.2, "end": 20176.76}, {"text": "approve this report are we approving this recommendation or do we need to delineate and have a vote on that", "start": 20176.76, "end": 20183.2}, {"text": "recommendation individually through through the chair the recommendation is that the 2024", "start": 20183.2, "end": 20190.2}, {"text": "Surplus funding be transferred to the climate change reserve and uh that would", "start": 20190.2, "end": 20195.36}, {"text": "be the action subject to the of committee and Council okay so if we are", "start": 20195.36, "end": 20202.878}, {"text": "we actually voting to approve this report then thank you that's what I was trying to get at thank", "start": 20202.878, "end": 20209.76}, {"text": "you okay not seeing any more discussion we'll have an electronic vote to approve the recommendations please indicate your", "start": 20209.76, "end": 20216.878}, {"text": "vote the vote is up", "start": 20216.878, "end": 20221.362}, {"text": "councelor Pauls are you able to", "start": 20229.84, "end": 20233}, {"text": "vote that vote carries 15 to", "start": 20236, "end": 20240.32}, {"text": "nothing looks like we're on 8.9 cm24 004a cyber incident impact update", "start": 20241.08, "end": 20249.68}, {"text": "Citywide may I please have a mover and seconder to put the report on the floor mayor and councelor wng", "start": 20249.68, "end": 20259.442}, {"text": "is there any discussion on this", "start": 20268.32, "end": 20271.92}, {"text": "item okay I have a section here that I'm supposed to read and should I read it now and then okay so should committee", "start": 20274.558, "end": 20283.44}, {"text": "wish to discuss confidential appendix B to this item we can for consideration of", "start": 20283.44, "end": 20288.558}, {"text": "this item until after close session we would need a motion to do", "start": 20288.558, "end": 20293.958}, {"text": "this is there will of the committee to do that councelor Wang", "start": 20293.958, "end": 20301.28}, {"text": "would you okay councelor Wing makes that motion anyone to Second councelor", "start": 20301.28, "end": 20307.718}, {"text": "Jackson thank you we require an electronic or do we is this a vote by", "start": 20307.718, "end": 20314.32}, {"text": "hand so this could be a show it it can be show on the deferral to after close", "start": 20314.32, "end": 20320.6}, {"text": "session okay that receives", "start": 20320.6, "end": 20326.718}, {"text": "unanimous support So in saying that we will def we", "start": 20326.718, "end": 20335.36}, {"text": "will wait to do the electronic vote until after now we're going to go to 8", "start": 20335.36, "end": 20340.558}, {"text": "point 10 FCS 25009 proposed amendments to the", "start": 20340.558, "end": 20346.28}, {"text": "timeline for the vacant unit tax program Citywide may I have a mover and a seconder to put the item on the", "start": 20346.28, "end": 20353.28}, {"text": "floor councelor Wang and councelor a Wilson thank", "start": 20353.28, "end": 20358.76}, {"text": "you any discussion on the", "start": 20358.76, "end": 20363.24}, {"text": "item I see councelor Jackson has put his name forward for the speakers list and", "start": 20365.32, "end": 20372.28}, {"text": "you have the floor sir thanks uh deputy mayor uh tedison so", "start": 20372.28, "end": 20378.878}, {"text": "even though this is about amendments uh to the vacant unit tax", "start": 20378.878, "end": 20384.36}, {"text": "program in terms of timelines which I'm going to presume was probably due to the", "start": 20384.36, "end": 20389.68}, {"text": "Canada Post six week strike um however since it still is referencing the vut which I was strongly", "start": 20389.68, "end": 20397.92}, {"text": "opposed to I will stay consistently opposed to the topic and the subject thank you Deputy Mayor", "start": 20397.92, "end": 20403.958}, {"text": "ton thank you councelor Jackson councelor", "start": 20403.958, "end": 20410.638}, {"text": "Pauls thank you and through the chair um just before the postal strike I actually", "start": 20412.08, "end": 20419.04}, {"text": "was going to have a meeting with my residents at a town hall to discuss about this uh vacant tax how they could", "start": 20419.04, "end": 20427.04}, {"text": "approach it and how they need to fill it a lot of my residents didn't even know", "start": 20427.04, "end": 20433.2}, {"text": "what I was talking about so um I just uh want to say that by postponing it again", "start": 20433.2, "end": 20441.558}, {"text": "which I I wish we could resend it Alto together because I'm totally totally", "start": 20441.558, "end": 20448.08}, {"text": "against it it does not provide housing we're spending money uh just to implemented 6 point what million 2.2", "start": 20448.08, "end": 20456.36}, {"text": "million a year 16 new bylaw officers I think it's ridiculous but anyways", "start": 20456.36, "end": 20463.32}, {"text": "besides that most people are", "start": 20463.32, "end": 20468.4}, {"text": "snowbirds there'll be not even back and they will have a penalty most", "start": 20468.4, "end": 20475.92}, {"text": "people uh leave uh around January don't come back till uh May or the end of", "start": 20475.92, "end": 20481.6}, {"text": "April and we'll have no uh resources I am just wondering I know we said we sent", "start": 20481.6, "end": 20489.08}, {"text": "communication and all that is there any way we can um let our snowbirds know uh", "start": 20489.08, "end": 20497.718}, {"text": "because a lot of them have been in their homes for many many many years and they", "start": 20497.718, "end": 20503.4}, {"text": "can't even fathom the thought that every year they have to say they live in their", "start": 20503.4, "end": 20509.558}, {"text": "home and it's not vacant it just doesn't make sense um matter of fact I want to", "start": 20509.558, "end": 20516}, {"text": "ask one question do we have a record how many people have been in their home for 20 30 40 years and should they even", "start": 20516, "end": 20524.92}, {"text": "apply for it councelor Paul that's a multifaceted", "start": 20524.92, "end": 20530.478}, {"text": "question 20 3040 do you have a date or a year that you want spe specified listen", "start": 20530.478, "end": 20536.32}, {"text": "I've lived in my house for 45 years okay do we have and then I would have to say", "start": 20536.32, "end": 20541.718}, {"text": "I'm still in my house like I'm just asking doesn't the city have a record of", "start": 20541.718, "end": 20547.44}, {"text": "all the homes that people have lived in their house for many years that maybe", "start": 20547.44, "end": 20554.2}, {"text": "they don't need to declare Paul we have a point of order called from councelor M Wilson I don't see the", "start": 20554.2, "end": 20561.24}, {"text": "point of order I'm just asking a question do we it's not not your ruling to see it or", "start": 20561.24, "end": 20567.08}, {"text": "not it's the chairs um the analysis that went into this report whether you deem", "start": 20567.08, "end": 20572.52}, {"text": "it valid or not whether you agree with the recommendation that was taken by the majority of these members or not the", "start": 20572.52, "end": 20578.68}, {"text": "analysis is available um and and I don't think it is the point uh at this", "start": 20578.68, "end": 20584.6}, {"text": "juncture to revisit the method methology um the numbers and the and the analysis", "start": 20584.6, "end": 20591}, {"text": "respectfully thank you okay can I answer that question can I uh if somebody comes", "start": 20591, "end": 20598.6}, {"text": "back from holiday hasn't done it has a $250 penalty how are we going to", "start": 20598.6, "end": 20604.44}, {"text": "mitigate that how are we going to defend ourselves they've been away they haven't", "start": 20604.44, "end": 20609.478}, {"text": "received it they're not even at home councelor Paul let me just uh throw that to the bench what's the process for you", "start": 20609.478, "end": 20618.478}, {"text": "know an incorrect unns thank", "start": 20618.478, "end": 20624.12}, {"text": "you through the chair I'm going to invite director Pereira to provide a bit", "start": 20624.12, "end": 20629.558}, {"text": "of a summary to the report because the report really touches upon the impact", "start": 20629.558, "end": 20634.638}, {"text": "that the postal strike had on the timelines for declaration as relates to", "start": 20634.638, "end": 20640.92}, {"text": "the vacant unit tax it's not a revisiting of the vacant unit tax um", "start": 20640.92, "end": 20647.2}, {"text": "staff are recommending a customer Centric and compassionate approach", "start": 20647.2, "end": 20652.68}, {"text": "because of the pulo strike of waving the late penalty of 250,000 for this", "start": 20652.68, "end": 20658.718}, {"text": "declaration year uh and extending some of the lines so I'm going ask director", "start": 20658.718, "end": 20664.36}, {"text": "Pereira to summarize the report uh for committee thank", "start": 20664.36, "end": 20670.44}, {"text": "you to you uh deputy mayor uh this is my uh first meeting over here um as", "start": 20670.44, "end": 20677.878}, {"text": "capacity of director Perera so welcome I get the anointment thank you um so uh in", "start": 20677.878, "end": 20686.2}, {"text": "in in reference to this report as uh GM zarak uh just mentioned uh the Tim l s", "start": 20686.2, "end": 20693.68}, {"text": "this report was primarily due to the postal strike where uh letters were", "start": 20693.68, "end": 20700}, {"text": "going to be going out to Residents to advise them of the uh the launch of the", "start": 20700, "end": 20705.958}, {"text": "vacant unit tax program uh within the original", "start": 20705.958, "end": 20711.68}, {"text": "timelines with with the uh postal strike delay uh we are now uh", "start": 20711.68, "end": 20720.04}, {"text": "recommending that we push the timelines in order to uh allow residents to uh", "start": 20720.04, "end": 20730.08}, {"text": "declare for the 2024 year and in an abundance of caution we", "start": 20730.08, "end": 20736.638}, {"text": "all looking to wave the late declaration fee uh for the first year of the", "start": 20736.638, "end": 20744.92}, {"text": "launch okay thanks I think that handles that councelor Pauls are you satisfied", "start": 20744.92, "end": 20750.6}, {"text": "with that answer I am as chair obviously I'm going to vote against then not because of the timeline", "start": 20750.6, "end": 20756.84}, {"text": "but because I disagree with the whole thing but I'm just uh um I I think uh", "start": 20756.84, "end": 20762.718}, {"text": "implementing around where people go on holidays where people are snowbirds", "start": 20762.718, "end": 20768.04}, {"text": "they're not home uh was uh problematic for myself and also um I I I want to", "start": 20768.04, "end": 20776.08}, {"text": "tell you we're going to have Problem by the end of the year and my last question is by the end of the year or even once", "start": 20776.08, "end": 20783.558}, {"text": "this is declared will we have a report back what the result was how many people", "start": 20783.558, "end": 20791.04}, {"text": "uh applied how many people will P well they're not going to be penalized the first year but how many people actually", "start": 20791.04, "end": 20798.44}, {"text": "declared it will we have a report this year okay thank you councelor Pauls uh", "start": 20798.44, "end": 20804.638}, {"text": "GM Z GIC the deputy mayor sure answer is yes we'll we'll provide regular", "start": 20804.638, "end": 20809.878}, {"text": "reporting uh with respect to these changes we'll work with our communication colleagues and we'll have", "start": 20809.878, "end": 20815.478}, {"text": "to do some additional uh media buy to communicate these changes and to the", "start": 20815.478, "end": 20821.558}, {"text": "counsel's question around timing in part this is driven by the distribution of tax bills and the timing of tax bills in", "start": 20821.558, "end": 20827.76}, {"text": "the spring and so uh like other municipalities that have have a vacant unit tax the timelines align with that", "start": 20827.76, "end": 20835.878}, {"text": "sort of that spring uh end of first quarter timing as it relates to tax", "start": 20835.878, "end": 20842.16}, {"text": "bills okay thanks for that explanation thank you Council thank you I always appreciate your answers uh I'm just", "start": 20842.16, "end": 20850.2}, {"text": "going to declare that I'm going to vote no not because I do not want to extend it but because I'm totally totally", "start": 20850.2, "end": 20857.04}, {"text": "against it thank you thank you councelor Paul for voicing your opinion uh we're", "start": 20857.04, "end": 20863.04}, {"text": "going to go to councelor Clark thank you Deputy Mayor can I just", "start": 20863.04, "end": 20868.958}, {"text": "get a little bit of clarification before I ask a couple of questions by all means", "start": 20868.958, "end": 20875.718}, {"text": "um I'm under the impression that the vacant unit", "start": 20875.718, "end": 20881.16}, {"text": "tax proposal the vacant unit tax Poli policy", "start": 20881.16, "end": 20887.76}, {"text": "as a whole is not before Council we are not", "start": 20887.76, "end": 20893.638}, {"text": "retiga that proposal we only have before us two", "start": 20893.638, "end": 20900.798}, {"text": "recommendations one of which is to extend the timeline so that we don't", "start": 20900.798, "end": 20906.52}, {"text": "have a rash of of uh penalties for not filing in", "start": 20906.52, "end": 20912.24}, {"text": "time which seems eminently reasonable and I for the record I oppose the vacant", "start": 20912.24, "end": 20917.478}, {"text": "unit tax but this is to extend the timeline so that people can", "start": 20917.478, "end": 20923.76}, {"text": "still file their documentations respectfully to them in a", "start": 20923.76, "end": 20929.798}, {"text": "timely matter it wasn't their fault that Canada Post went on strike that's the first thing the second thing is that", "start": 20929.798, "end": 20937.12}, {"text": "staff be directed to wave the penalties as a result of this challenge that we", "start": 20937.12, "end": 20942.958}, {"text": "have experienced with Canada Post so those are the only things that that we're voting for and voting against them", "start": 20942.958, "end": 20950.6}, {"text": "means that you're voting against the extension so that people can file on time and you're voting against the", "start": 20950.6, "end": 20957.638}, {"text": "opportunity of giving staff the opportunity to wave a penalty do I have", "start": 20957.638, "end": 20963.92}, {"text": "that correct do the chair I think I should have turned the microphone over to", "start": 20963.92, "end": 20969}, {"text": "council Clark when you invited a description of the report uh council is correct is what council approved is a", "start": 20969, "end": 20975.558}, {"text": "policy that uh that included the timelines and included the administrative late penalty", "start": 20975.558, "end": 20982.32}, {"text": "fee in order for the city to or staff to amend the timelines and amend the fee", "start": 20982.32, "end": 20989.24}, {"text": "requires committee and Council approval if committee and council do not approve", "start": 20989.24, "end": 20994.36}, {"text": "the recommendation then status quo would be in effect and we would then send out", "start": 20994.36, "end": 21000.04}, {"text": "the original the communications referring to the original", "start": 21000.04, "end": 21005.44}, {"text": "timelines thank than you GM which means they would have lost an entire month of opportunity", "start": 21005.44, "end": 21014.04}, {"text": "to to to present their forms to City call", "start": 21014.04, "end": 21019.32}, {"text": "um to you Deputy Mayor and and perhaps it's to the clerk or to staff I'm not", "start": 21019.32, "end": 21025.92}, {"text": "sure one thing that has come to my attention in this um", "start": 21025.92, "end": 21032.68}, {"text": "policy is that um Estates and the settling of Estates has", "start": 21032.68, "end": 21040.718}, {"text": "a limited window of opportunity to settle the situation so here's an", "start": 21040.718, "end": 21046.718}, {"text": "example and and this is why I like staff at least the very least to go back and look at it and then come forward I have", "start": 21046.718, "end": 21052.68}, {"text": "a resident um whose brother passed away they were really not", "start": 21052.68, "end": 21060.84}, {"text": "close um he wasn't even aware that he had passed away it came to their attention uh through the banks and", "start": 21060.84, "end": 21068.08}, {"text": "somehow his brother had said oh you should talk to my brother if I if if I die he is basically", "start": 21068.08, "end": 21075.44}, {"text": "intestate he had to go through the process with the banks and with the", "start": 21075.44, "end": 21081.12}, {"text": "probate court I guess it is to enable the process that he could be the", "start": 21081.12, "end": 21086.798}, {"text": "executive to settle the entire estate he's already a year and a half in", "start": 21086.798, "end": 21094.68}, {"text": "before he had approval to be the executive and clear the estate", "start": 21094.68, "end": 21100.04}, {"text": "he's already behind on the vacant unit tax because he can't get the work done", "start": 21100.04, "end": 21107.04}, {"text": "so is there a way for staff to look at this and ensure um that the vacant unit tax is", "start": 21107.04, "end": 21114.558}, {"text": "not applied to a property that is going through probate or going through the estate process just very clear language", "start": 21114.558, "end": 21121.718}, {"text": "once probate is concluded then the vacant unit tax would apply to that property is that something that our", "start": 21121.718, "end": 21128.24}, {"text": "staff can look at and at least come back with a a recommendation as to how we", "start": 21128.24, "end": 21134.24}, {"text": "would Implement that in this program through the chair uh yes and I", "start": 21134.24, "end": 21141.12}, {"text": "would encourage any elected officials if you are hearing of examples that you can", "start": 21141.12, "end": 21147.16}, {"text": "share with us as we are learning and thinking how we are going to execute I would encourage you please to share", "start": 21147.16, "end": 21153.718}, {"text": "these examples uh we can absolutely take that away whether it requires Council", "start": 21153.718, "end": 21159.52}, {"text": "decision making recognizing the spirit of the intent uh we would come back if", "start": 21159.52, "end": 21165.36}, {"text": "necessary otherwise uh director Pereira and his team are uh doing q&as and", "start": 21165.36, "end": 21172.958}, {"text": "populating these examples sharing examples via the website so that citizens can can um gather information", "start": 21172.958, "end": 21181.28}, {"text": "and learn with respect to examples such as this so short answer is we will take it away we will review whether it", "start": 21181.28, "end": 21187.558}, {"text": "requires a decision of committee and Council if so we'll report back again", "start": 21187.558, "end": 21192.92}, {"text": "please share any examples that you have because I know that the team are running", "start": 21192.92, "end": 21198.16}, {"text": "through examples and applying examples and as relates to their learnings uh and uh again we continue to", "start": 21198.16, "end": 21206.558}, {"text": "populate the website with information to try to assist Property Owners thank you", "start": 21206.558, "end": 21213.24}, {"text": "thank you that I really appreciate that um cooperation it will assist us so I", "start": 21213.24, "end": 21218.76}, {"text": "look forward to seeing that um the other issue is with regard to snowbirds I I", "start": 21218.76, "end": 21225.16}, {"text": "can tell you sh chair that I wish I was a snowbird", "start": 21225.16, "end": 21230.478}, {"text": "um generally I'm more of a cuckoo than a snowbird but regardless um the majority", "start": 21230.478, "end": 21237.16}, {"text": "of citizens are not snowbirds it is a small component of the municipality there's snowbirds and it is", "start": 21237.16, "end": 21244.2}, {"text": "a small component of the municipality where these snowbirds have already left Hamilton and are now staying wherever", "start": 21244.2, "end": 21251.558}, {"text": "they stay Florida Cuba Costa Rica I don't know of them", "start": 21251.558, "end": 21257.04}, {"text": "all they may not be aware of this at all because they're not home so how do we treat them as it", "start": 21257.04, "end": 21266.84}, {"text": "relates to filing on time it's likely they wouldn't be back until May or", "start": 21266.84, "end": 21274.08}, {"text": "June are they deemed to be in", "start": 21274.08, "end": 21278.6}, {"text": "default to you uh deputy mayor uh so this is obviously a new program and", "start": 21280.638, "end": 21289.36}, {"text": "and with the newness of the program uh there are going to be instances where", "start": 21289.36, "end": 21295.32}, {"text": "challenges such as snowbirds uh may not have that opportunity or may not have even seen", "start": 21295.32, "end": 21301.28}, {"text": "some of the communications that have gone out given that we are putting this in front of uh committee for uh the", "start": 21301.28, "end": 21309.32}, {"text": "waving of the late fee will give us that opportunity to then have them declare at", "start": 21309.32, "end": 21316.84}, {"text": "some point when they are back uh and then what we what we will do is we will", "start": 21316.84, "end": 21321.958}, {"text": "have this as an education lesson for the following year uh and again I think this is just going to be an ongoing", "start": 21321.958, "end": 21328.76}, {"text": "opportunity to educate and learn as this Pro program is just coming into fruition", "start": 21328.76, "end": 21334.36}, {"text": "this year thank you so to be clear Deputy Mayor Item B in this", "start": 21334.36, "end": 21339.478}, {"text": "recommendation is delegating authority to our staff to wave exemption fees when", "start": 21339.478, "end": 21345.878}, {"text": "they feel it is appropriate or in order and if they find that someone who is living offshore and comes back in May or", "start": 21345.878, "end": 21353.12}, {"text": "June and they can demonstrate that they were offshore then our staff can wave", "start": 21353.12, "end": 21359.12}, {"text": "that penalty fee correct through the deputy mayor yes for", "start": 21359.12, "end": 21364.958}, {"text": "the 2024 DEC ation period Okay so we've covered the snowbirds and we've covered", "start": 21364.958, "end": 21370.04}, {"text": "the estate I didn't support the vacant unit tax but these recommendations make sense and it", "start": 21370.04, "end": 21377.798}, {"text": "enables this process to help snowbirds and and to deal with some of these", "start": 21377.798, "end": 21383.08}, {"text": "issues that are popping up we can correct them in the first year of the program thank you for your time thank", "start": 21383.08, "end": 21389}, {"text": "you Deputy bar thank you councelor Clark always appreciate the clarity um count", "start": 21389, "end": 21395}, {"text": "uh mayor Horvath you're up uh thanks um thanks", "start": 21395, "end": 21401.2}, {"text": "Deputy Mayor taison I with apologies to my colleagues uh I didn't get uh onto", "start": 21401.2, "end": 21408.36}, {"text": "the agenda quickly enough the speakers list rather quickly enough to declare my um interest", "start": 21408.36, "end": 21415.68}, {"text": "my uh disqualifying interest in this item and so I'm doing so", "start": 21415.68, "end": 21421.68}, {"text": "now thank you so noted and there's no other speakers so we'll require an", "start": 21421.68, "end": 21428.24}, {"text": "electronic vote to approve the recommendations please indicate your vote as they come", "start": 21428.24, "end": 21435.4}, {"text": "up that vote carries 11 to3 with one abstention thank you we are now moving", "start": 21448.84, "end": 21455.16}, {"text": "to motions 9.1 adherence to the encampment protocol as revised and approved by Council June", "start": 21455.16, "end": 21461.558}, {"text": "20 2024 councelor danl would you like to introduce your", "start": 21461.558, "end": 21467.2}, {"text": "motion thank you uh chair tatterson this motion was uh put on the table prior to", "start": 21467.2, "end": 21475.12}, {"text": "the court the Justice Ramsey Court decision uh so it is no longer relevant", "start": 21475.12, "end": 21481.84}, {"text": "um and I believe all our focus should be on the subsequent motion to resend the protocol and uh also incidentally thank", "start": 21481.84, "end": 21488.92}, {"text": "you to uh to clerk trenum that this Mo direction is not actually an order in the first place as it directs staff to", "start": 21488.92, "end": 21495.4}, {"text": "do work that we've already directed staff to do so with that I withdrawing this", "start": 21495.4, "end": 21501.24}, {"text": "motion thank you councelor Dano and with you withdrawing we will", "start": 21501.24, "end": 21506.36}, {"text": "now move to 9.2 resending of City Hamilton encampment protocol revised", "start": 21506.36, "end": 21512.2}, {"text": "councelor spatap for would you like to introduce your motion and you have a second", "start": 21512.2, "end": 21517.28}, {"text": "ER thank you uh Deputy Mayor tatterson it's moved by myself and seconded by councelor Tom Jackson uh resending of", "start": 21517.28, "end": 21524.52}, {"text": "City of Hamilton en Cam and protocol um whereas Justice Ramsey", "start": 21524.52, "end": 21529.92}, {"text": "Ontario Supreme Court Judge issued a ruling on December 23rd 2024 dismissing the claim of 14", "start": 21529.92, "end": 21535.76}, {"text": "applicants at the city of Hamilton's bylaw preventing encampments in city parks was a violation of applicant Canadian Charter of Human Rights and", "start": 21535.76, "end": 21543.958}, {"text": "Freedoms whereas in the ruling Justice Ramsey wrote I was reminded by Council for the applicant that while the", "start": 21543.958, "end": 21549.68}, {"text": "legislature represents the will of the people the court holds the moral compass that is often the only protection for", "start": 21549.68, "end": 21554.798}, {"text": "the most vulnerable I observe that the most vulnerable includes not only the homeless but also the elderly person and", "start": 21554.798, "end": 21560.36}, {"text": "the child who want to use a sidewalk or a city park without tiptoeing through used needles and human feces the life", "start": 21560.36, "end": 21566.798}, {"text": "liberty and security of the applicants are not put at risk by enforcement of the bylaw they are put at risk by", "start": 21566.798, "end": 21571.958}, {"text": "homelessness encampments contribute to this risk they are Lawless dangerous ous and", "start": 21571.958, "end": 21577.04}, {"text": "unsanitary encampments are a symptom not a solution the city is trying to find a solution to homelessness in consultation", "start": 21577.04, "end": 21583.36}, {"text": "with numerous numerous others it has attempted to address the problem with the old protocol the encampment process", "start": 21583.36, "end": 21590.24}, {"text": "and the new protocol it has limited resources and a duty to its house constituency I think", "start": 21590.24, "end": 21596.798}, {"text": "I'm well advised to leave them to it without interference micromanagement by judges will not be productive therefore", "start": 21596.798, "end": 21604.798}, {"text": "be it resolved that the city Hamilton encampment protocol be rescinded as of March 1st 2025 that the general manager of healthy", "start": 21604.798, "end": 21611.6}, {"text": "and safe communities planning and economic development and Public Works report back at the February 5th 2025 GIC", "start": 21611.6, "end": 21617.958}, {"text": "meeting with the necessary resources and Staffing needed to transition from the", "start": 21617.958, "end": 21623.12}, {"text": "current encampment protocol to the city of Hamilton Park", "start": 21623.12, "end": 21628.638}, {"text": "bylaw and that housing services staff be directed to continue working with local social agencies to find shelter space", "start": 21628.638, "end": 21635.478}, {"text": "for those living in encampments that Municipal law enforcement Park staff be", "start": 21635.478, "end": 21640.558}, {"text": "directed to dismantle all encampments as well as clean and restore parks to inviting safe and green recreational", "start": 21640.558, "end": 21647.04}, {"text": "spaces they once were to be enjoyed by the city of Hamilton taxpayers and their", "start": 21647.04, "end": 21652.36}, {"text": "families uh Deputy Mayor tson I just want to um add a little bit and then", "start": 21652.36, "end": 21658.4}, {"text": "I'll uh and I'll move on so um the one thing that I want to make", "start": 21658.4, "end": 21663.84}, {"text": "sure everybody's clear is that this city the taxpayers of the city and the staff", "start": 21663.84, "end": 21670.16}, {"text": "of the city have put money effort and", "start": 21670.16, "end": 21676.44}, {"text": "time into helping with homelessness $125 million 2024 in the homelessness and", "start": 21676.44, "end": 21683.52}, {"text": "housing file we uh as well as myself approved 192 new shelter beds that should all be", "start": 21683.52, "end": 21690.68}, {"text": "online by the end of January or close to that and", "start": 21690.68, "end": 21696.718}, {"text": "I think it's not talked about enough of the work we're doing and saying that we need to balance", "start": 21696.718, "end": 21703.16}, {"text": "that we're balancing the work that I think staff's done a great job of doing with the resources that we're limited to", "start": 21703.16, "end": 21710.32}, {"text": "because we can't spend the amount of money that's needed because we just don't have it and we continue to wait", "start": 21710.32, "end": 21716.08}, {"text": "for uper levels of government to help us through that but I don't believe we continue down this path of investing", "start": 21716.08, "end": 21722.84}, {"text": "money uh to help with shelter uh increases to help with rent supports and", "start": 21722.84, "end": 21729.24}, {"text": "all those things $125 million worth and at the same time continue to allow", "start": 21729.24, "end": 21734.638}, {"text": "what's happened in our parks and on our streets without enforcement whether", "start": 21734.638, "end": 21739.68}, {"text": "that's drug use open drug use whether that's defecating in public whether", "start": 21739.68, "end": 21744.958}, {"text": "that's the violence or the crime the balance needs to be there and I believe", "start": 21744.958, "end": 21750.4}, {"text": "this is the balance I only have one question then I'll wrap it up and I don't know if GM Mater can answer this", "start": 21750.4, "end": 21755.958}, {"text": "or if superintendent henck is here but I want to ensure that in the report back that Hamilton Police", "start": 21755.958, "end": 21763.6}, {"text": "Services also include if any additional resources would be needed I'm not saying", "start": 21763.6, "end": 21769.52}, {"text": "there will be they can answer that if they're here or GM or may know but I want to ensure that the report back for", "start": 21769.52, "end": 21774.76}, {"text": "February 5th also includes all other departments if the Hamilton fire department has resources they think", "start": 21774.76, "end": 21780.558}, {"text": "they'll need and again I'm assuming these will be temporary resources if the motion is to pass Hil Police Services as", "start": 21780.558, "end": 21786.878}, {"text": "well should uh provide their feedback to uh GM Mater so that can all be included", "start": 21786.878, "end": 21792.52}, {"text": "in the report and I'm hoping through you Deputy Mayor that we can get an answer on that thank", "start": 21792.52, "end": 21798.716}, {"text": "you GM Mater through the chair um to the counselor um absolutely that would be", "start": 21799.798, "end": 21805.28}, {"text": "included but I will uh allow uh and defer to uh superintendent henck for a comment now he's with us as", "start": 21805.28, "end": 21813.558}, {"text": "well thank you and through you chair um so to answer the first question uh do we support the removal of the protocol uh", "start": 21814.32, "end": 21821.6}, {"text": "the answer is yes uh it is the position of the Hamilton Police Service that the city of Hamilton has met the", "start": 21821.6, "end": 21827.798}, {"text": "municipality's requirement as outlined in numerous Court decisions to ensure that an appropriate number of Shelter", "start": 21827.798, "end": 21834.36}, {"text": "spaces are available to assist those seeking shelter uh this includes significant investment in low barrier uh", "start": 21834.36, "end": 21841.6}, {"text": "temporary shelters and additional shelter space our approach will continue continue to focus on housing and support", "start": 21841.6, "end": 21848.28}, {"text": "and educating individuals on the numerous spaces available for people to", "start": 21848.28, "end": 21853.92}, {"text": "obtain shelter followed by uh enforcement uh our response will continue to be compassionate and work", "start": 21853.92, "end": 21860.76}, {"text": "with those uh to assist that are struggling with mental health and addiction Hamilton police will assist", "start": 21860.76, "end": 21867}, {"text": "Municipal bylaw as they work to enforce the city of Hamilton parks and trespass bylaws uh throughout the", "start": 21867, "end": 21874.08}, {"text": "city just wanted to H highlight uh from our perspective every society has rules and ours is no different uh we believe", "start": 21874.08, "end": 21881.638}, {"text": "the revocation of the protocol will afford Municipal bylaw the autonomy it", "start": 21881.638, "end": 21887.24}, {"text": "once had in addressing bylaw infractions members of the Hamilton Police encampment engagement team will", "start": 21887.24, "end": 21893.718}, {"text": "continue to provide support to Municipal bylaw officers uh as they engage in their duties it is believe that this", "start": 21893.718, "end": 21900.84}, {"text": "approach strikes a balance a balance between ensuring that those who are un housed are and seeking shelter have a", "start": 21900.84, "end": 21908.04}, {"text": "safe place to find Refuge from the elements and brings order to the numerous parks and public spaces in our", "start": 21908.04, "end": 21915.878}, {"text": "community it will end the practice of unhoused citizens lawfully being able to erect shelter and parks and return", "start": 21915.878, "end": 21923.28}, {"text": "return the parks to the community as a whole but our work doesn't end there while this work is ongoing members of", "start": 21923.28, "end": 21930.68}, {"text": "the uh Hamilton police are mobile crisis rapid response team and partner parip", "start": 21930.68, "end": 21935.92}, {"text": "with St Joe's our Coast team our social Navigator team and um most recently our", "start": 21935.92, "end": 21943.2}, {"text": "rapid intervention and support team which works so closely with uh numerous Community agencies in our city they will", "start": 21943.2, "end": 21950.718}, {"text": "continue to work together um to support those who are most vulnerable in our", "start": 21950.718, "end": 21956.24}, {"text": "community uh to answer the question about Staffing um so yes it's our our", "start": 21956.24, "end": 21961.84}, {"text": "position that we would require um additional Staffing for a short sharp period of time um what we are believing", "start": 21961.84, "end": 21969.28}, {"text": "um is that we are seeking an additional four officers for a period of six months", "start": 21969.28, "end": 21976.04}, {"text": "and then to have those um to have that uh the efficacy of those efforts in", "start": 21976.04, "end": 21981.84}, {"text": "partnership with byla and City staff re-evaluate at the four-month Mark to", "start": 21981.84, "end": 21987.16}, {"text": "determine the impact and Effectiveness and the need for that Staffing commitment to continue so subject to any", "start": 21987.16, "end": 21993.798}, {"text": "questions um I believe that answers both the questions and the points that were", "start": 21993.798, "end": 21998.958}, {"text": "raised okay thank you thank you Deputy Mayor and thank you to GM maer and", "start": 21998.958, "end": 22004.28}, {"text": "superintendent Hing for that uh information okay thank you uh we're", "start": 22004.28, "end": 22009.76}, {"text": "going to go is there any discussion on this motion and I see councelor M Wilson you're first on the", "start": 22009.76, "end": 22016.638}, {"text": "list thank you chair um certainly not intentionally willing wanting to disrupt", "start": 22017.08, "end": 22025.04}, {"text": "a good public discussion and debate on the motion um", "start": 22025.04, "end": 22030.24}, {"text": "chair I was a strong proponent of uh ensuring that we stayed the course", "start": 22030.24, "end": 22039.32}, {"text": "in court and um I don't like to use the word fight", "start": 22039.32, "end": 22046.84}, {"text": "but we had an obligation in my opinion to uphold our bylaws our public", "start": 22046.84, "end": 22052.36}, {"text": "bylaws um I did not waver and I would not deal but at this point I would", "start": 22052.36, "end": 22060.32}, {"text": "appreciate an opportunity if we could go into closed uh because we have not had", "start": 22060.32, "end": 22066.558}, {"text": "an account from our Legal Services on what Justice Ramsey's ruling um means in", "start": 22066.558, "end": 22073.558}, {"text": "their opinion and I would not want to do anything at this juncture that would uh", "start": 22073.558, "end": 22079.24}, {"text": "upset or injure the public interest which I think we have an obligation to uphold so at this time I think it's your", "start": 22079.24, "end": 22086.28}, {"text": "will to go into close session to discuss this and not to um make a determination", "start": 22086.28, "end": 22091.4}, {"text": "until we hear from legal if I may uh and I know ELC McCrae", "start": 22091.4, "end": 22097.32}, {"text": "has her hand up but if we could refer or defer um consideration of the motion", "start": 22097.32, "end": 22104.4}, {"text": "until we are in receipt of that closed session Council thank you okay so we're going to defer till", "start": 22104.4, "end": 22112}, {"text": "after closed okay so we have to take a vote on this so that vote can be by", "start": 22112, "end": 22120.878}, {"text": "hand correct the deputy mayor that is correct but I would need a second or first okay", "start": 22122.878, "end": 22129.2}, {"text": "so uh councelor Clark will second that and those all willing", "start": 22129.2, "end": 22136.04}, {"text": "to have this determined after we come out of closed raise your", "start": 22136.04, "end": 22144.12}, {"text": "hands so is there a speakers list on a", "start": 22144.12, "end": 22149.798}, {"text": "deferral one sec clar", "start": 22153.16, "end": 22160.44}, {"text": "tranum it's not so I I'll I'll advise that there really isn't a speakers list", "start": 22161.08, "end": 22166.798}, {"text": "associated with the deferral unless you'd like to discuss the instructions which in in this case you're really just", "start": 22166.798, "end": 22172.798}, {"text": "holding off on additional discussion until after close session so uh I don't", "start": 22172.798, "end": 22178.718}, {"text": "you can't really debate the deferral motion and it's not a it's not a debatable item in that respect um but", "start": 22178.718, "end": 22185.52}, {"text": "again if there are questions with regards to why you are are pushing it", "start": 22185.52, "end": 22190.878}, {"text": "past potentially if it's related to those instructions but nothing beyond that chair okay thank you so councelor", "start": 22190.878, "end": 22198.36}, {"text": "Jackson you heard that explanation from the clerk but you still have you have the floor", "start": 22198.36, "end": 22205.638}, {"text": "okay thank you councelor Jackson councelor Clark I'd like to ensure on the record", "start": 22205.638, "end": 22212.718}, {"text": "that we will be speaking about in camera the um subsequent appeal that has", "start": 22212.718, "end": 22220.76}, {"text": "been filed and any legal ramifications upon the municipality", "start": 22220.76, "end": 22226.4}, {"text": "prior to that appeal happening I understand there's 30 days and I have", "start": 22226.4, "end": 22232.52}, {"text": "not spoken about this decision in public because it's really not out of the courts yet there was a court decision", "start": 22232.52, "end": 22239.718}, {"text": "but now there's an appeal and so we need to be cautious thank", "start": 22239.718, "end": 22245.44}, {"text": "you do you do you need a response from city solicitor shields on that no I", "start": 22245.44, "end": 22252.32}, {"text": "raised it just on the record so that the clerks can indicate that because when we go in camera we can only speak to items", "start": 22252.32, "end": 22259.558}, {"text": "that we have stated we are going into camera for thank you for that Clarity again", "start": 22259.558, "end": 22266.558}, {"text": "point of point of order will you finished councelor Clark", "start": 22266.558, "end": 22272.718}, {"text": "my apologies okay so my point of order is", "start": 22272.718, "end": 22278.28}, {"text": "the Mover of the motion councelor spatap for just moved it and gave his explanation in public why he is doing", "start": 22278.28, "end": 22284.718}, {"text": "the initiative he's doing and I was the secondary now I'm hearing that going in camera coming out of camera I may not be", "start": 22284.718, "end": 22291.6}, {"text": "able to make a similar speech which I had prepared to do as well and I'm so", "start": 22291.6, "end": 22296.68}, {"text": "I'm hoping that's not going to be the case Deputy Mayor tedison whatever we hear in camera I still want to give a", "start": 22296.68, "end": 22303.24}, {"text": "similar type speech that is now on the public record that councelor spap for gave before councelor Meen Wilson's uh", "start": 22303.24, "end": 22311.52}, {"text": "desire to go in camera I just want that Assurance deput mayor tatterson please", "start": 22311.52, "end": 22316.718}, {"text": "I'm GNA go to the clerk because I don't know what your speech is going to say so I'm going to go to the clerks and figure out uh through the deputy mayor once we", "start": 22316.718, "end": 22324.32}, {"text": "come out of camera the item will be placed on the floor just as before and then we will debate it as as per usual perfect thank", "start": 22324.32, "end": 22332.6}, {"text": "you thank you councelor Jackson", "start": 22332.6, "end": 22337.68}, {"text": "so mayor thank you just a a clarification", "start": 22337.68, "end": 22343.2}, {"text": "on the comments from councelor Clark to the city solicitor has an appeal in fact", "start": 22343.2, "end": 22349.958}, {"text": "been filed", "start": 22349.958, "end": 22353.158}, {"text": "thanks chair Lisa shei said UST no there hasn't been an appeal filed okay thank", "start": 22357.638, "end": 22364.556}, {"text": "you so asking the clerk are we going to we're going to vote on this particular", "start": 22366.718, "end": 22373.52}, {"text": "item but we will be going into camera after this so so through the deputy", "start": 22373.52, "end": 22379.478}, {"text": "mayor there is a motion on the floor to defer consideration until after close if", "start": 22379.478, "end": 22384.558}, {"text": "that motion passes we will move on to item 9.2 which is to receive the correspondence on the item we will go", "start": 22384.558, "end": 22390.76}, {"text": "through the remainder of the motions and notices of motions and uh the closed session minutes from there we'll move", "start": 22390.76, "end": 22396.84}, {"text": "into close to discuss all closed session items rise from closed discuss 8.9 9.2", "start": 22396.84, "end": 22403}, {"text": "and then the balance of uh the in camera decisions okay thank you I think I follow that now so we're going to have", "start": 22403, "end": 22408.718}, {"text": "that vote right now uh to put this item into uh close session so all the in", "start": 22408.718, "end": 22415.4}, {"text": "favor of going to close oh sorry councelor clerk help me thank you well I", "start": 22415.4, "end": 22420.44}, {"text": "appreciate the mayor's question to the city solicitor but the municipality is still needs to ensure", "start": 22420.44, "end": 22428.558}, {"text": "that we have our best case if we are appealed and so we need that information", "start": 22428.558, "end": 22435.12}, {"text": "in camera and I still want to clarify that that will be an opportunity for me", "start": 22435.12, "end": 22440.4}, {"text": "to ask questions as to how the city can insulate themselves", "start": 22440.4, "end": 22445.76}, {"text": "from any potential appeal do I havek you councelor Clark thank you okay I think that that's the", "start": 22445.76, "end": 22452.2}, {"text": "intent here so councelor Paul's this has to be on", "start": 22452.2, "end": 22458.6}, {"text": "the instructions yeah the instruction there's no appeal I feel like we're being handcuffed with the court ruling", "start": 22458.6, "end": 22466.28}, {"text": "we were waiting coun Pauls councelor Paul Wai for the court", "start": 22466.28, "end": 22471.76}, {"text": "ring on the we're only allowed to debate or raise about the instructions here", "start": 22471.76, "end": 22477.32}, {"text": "this instructor there's no need to go in camera have you'll have a motion after you can speak after this thank", "start": 22477.32, "end": 22486.878}, {"text": "you uh can I yes go ahead Council Francis sorry apologies can we not go in", "start": 22488.04, "end": 22495.16}, {"text": "camera right now and deal with it then come out and then deal with the rest of the in camera items later on the agenda that's not usually the process here I", "start": 22495.16, "end": 22502.16}, {"text": "think what will happens we defer and we go into are are in camera that's been", "start": 22502.16, "end": 22507.6}, {"text": "what I've understood we have that in can we just ask if we can so through the deputy mayor yes we can but there are so", "start": 22507.6, "end": 22513.68}, {"text": "few items left it would make more sense it would save committees time to deal it", "start": 22513.68, "end": 22518.958}, {"text": "with it all at once I imagine we have about 5 10 minutes left of the agenda before the close session items but it is", "start": 22518.958, "end": 22526.2}, {"text": "the will of committee if committee wants to go into camera for this item come back out deal with the rest go back into camera we can do that as", "start": 22526.2, "end": 22533.4}, {"text": "well I'm just the only reason I'm saying this is I suspect the cyber security update is going to be very", "start": 22533.52, "end": 22539.4}, {"text": "lengthy we're going to lose members around this horseshoe later in the debate I'd rather have everyone here for the most important debate that we've had", "start": 22539.4, "end": 22546.718}, {"text": "this term of council so if we could move in camera right now", "start": 22546.718, "end": 22552.4}, {"text": "that would be my preference that's all I'm saying to change the agenda do we need a", "start": 22552.4, "end": 22559.798}, {"text": "vote to change the agenda to go in now", "start": 22559.798, "end": 22564.478}, {"text": "cler trenum essentially chair you'd want a motion to move into closed right now", "start": 22565.52, "end": 22571.12}, {"text": "and it would be just to receive that advice you're not really changing the agenda you're", "start": 22571.12, "end": 22576.638}, {"text": "just moving into to close to receive advice on this item or on an item related to it before you have that open", "start": 22576.638, "end": 22583.4}, {"text": "discussion so you would still just need a vote to move into close now but what I would ask is if the Mover and second of the motion are amendable to going now", "start": 22583.4, "end": 22590.4}, {"text": "versus going later okay okay that seems to work so", "start": 22590.4, "end": 22597}, {"text": "thank you councelor Francis for that guidance good points made uh so voting", "start": 22597, "end": 22602.958}, {"text": "to go into camera now based on this getting information about", "start": 22602.958, "end": 22609.638}, {"text": "this thank you put your hands up if you are in favor of going in camera at this", "start": 22609.638, "end": 22617.04}, {"text": "time okay that carries", "start": 22617.04, "end": 22621.76}, {"text": "we", "start": 22626.08, "end": 22628.36}, {"text": "now okay so I should have to read", "start": 22632.04, "end": 22636.398}, {"text": "this e", "start": 22653.84, "end": 22657.84}, {"text": "uh we're still in committee please stay with us at this point we haven't gone into we haven't got into the motion yet", "start": 22705.04, "end": 22711.84}, {"text": "we just had the vote to go to it we have procedure to follow so I'm going to let", "start": 22711.84, "end": 22716.958}, {"text": "the clerk read the first part of the procedure where I'll pick it up after that so the motion would be to go into", "start": 22716.958, "end": 22723.2}, {"text": "close session for item 9.2 perer to section 9.3 subsection F of the city's", "start": 22723.2, "end": 22729.08}, {"text": "procedural bylaw 21-21 as amended and section 9 uh 29", "start": 22729.08, "end": 22734.2}, {"text": "2392 subsection F of the Ontario Municipal act 2001 as amended as the", "start": 22734.2, "end": 22741.52}, {"text": "subject matter pertains to advice that is subject to solicitor Cent Pro including Communications necessary for", "start": 22741.52, "end": 22746.878}, {"text": "that purpose councelor you'll need a move a seconder councelor wang councelor", "start": 22746.878, "end": 22753.84}, {"text": "Bey please indicate your vote now through a show hands thank you members of the public", "start": 22753.84, "end": 22761.958}, {"text": "are advised that during the Clos session portion of the meeting the live stream will broadcast a closed session in", "start": 22761.958, "end": 22768.08}, {"text": "progress screen the broadcast will resume when the closed session portion of the meeting is complete as we are now", "start": 22768.08, "end": 22773.84}, {"text": "moving into close session I'd ask all members of the public delegates and external participants to please now exit", "start": 22773.84, "end": 22779.76}, {"text": "the web WebEx meeting as well any staff that are not directly related to the in", "start": 22779.76, "end": 22785.44}, {"text": "camera items are also now asked to please exit the WebEx meeting I also remind members the council that as per", "start": 22785.44, "end": 22791.84}, {"text": "section 8.7 the procedural bylaw the use of personal electronic devices during closed meetings is strictly prohibited", "start": 22791.84, "end": 22799.16}, {"text": "however the use of City electronic devices during closed meetings are limited to text Communications only with", "start": 22799.16, "end": 22804.958}, {"text": "the city's electronic devices not being used as a telephone recording device or camera staff from the office of the city", "start": 22804.958, "end": 22812.12}, {"text": "clerk are Exempted from subsection 8.7c when using electronic devices for recordkeeping", "start": 22812.12, "end": 22819.84}, {"text": "purposes", "start": 22833.638, "end": 22836.638}, {"text": "e", "start": 22863.558, "end": 22866.558}, {"text": "e", "start": 22893.52, "end": 22896.52}, {"text": "e", "start": 22923.52, "end": 22926.52}, {"text": "e", "start": 22953.44, "end": 22956.44}, {"text": "e", "start": 22983.44, "end": 22986.44}, {"text": "e", "start": 23013.44, "end": 23016.44}, {"text": "e", "start": 23043.36, "end": 23046.36}, {"text": "e", "start": 23073.32, "end": 23076.32}, {"text": "e", "start": 23103.32, "end": 23106.32}, {"text": "e", "start": 23133.24, "end": 23136.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 23163.24, "end": 23166.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 23193.24, "end": 23196.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 23223.16, "end": 23226.16}, {"text": "e", "start": 23253.12, "end": 23256.12}, {"text": "e", "start": 23283.12, "end": 23286.12}, {"text": "e", "start": 23313.04, "end": 23316.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 23343.04, "end": 23346.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 23373.04, "end": 23376.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 23402.958, "end": 23405.958}, {"text": "e", "start": 23432.92, "end": 23435.92}, {"text": "e", "start": 23462.92, "end": 23465.92}, {"text": "e", "start": 23492.84, "end": 23495.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 23522.84, "end": 23525.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 23552.84, "end": 23555.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 23582.76, "end": 23585.76}, {"text": "e", "start": 23612.718, "end": 23615.718}, {"text": "e", "start": 23642.718, "end": 23645.718}, {"text": "e", "start": 23672.638, "end": 23675.638}, {"text": "e", "start": 23702.638, "end": 23705.638}, {"text": "e", "start": 23732.638, "end": 23735.638}, {"text": "e", "start": 23762.558, "end": 23765.558}, {"text": "e", "start": 23792.52, "end": 23795.52}, {"text": "e", "start": 23822.52, "end": 23825.52}, {"text": "e", "start": 23852.44, "end": 23855.44}, {"text": "e", "start": 23882.44, "end": 23885.44}, {"text": "e", "start": 23912.44, "end": 23915.44}, {"text": "e", "start": 23942.36, "end": 23945.36}, {"text": "e", "start": 23972.32, "end": 23975.32}, {"text": "e", "start": 24002.32, "end": 24005.32}, {"text": "e", "start": 24032.24, "end": 24035.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 24062.24, "end": 24065.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 24092.24, "end": 24095.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 24122.16, "end": 24125.16}, {"text": "e", "start": 24152.12, "end": 24155.12}, {"text": "e", "start": 24182.12, "end": 24185.12}, {"text": "e", "start": 24212.04, "end": 24215.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 24242.04, "end": 24245.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 24272.04, "end": 24275.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 24301.958, "end": 24304.958}, {"text": "e", "start": 24331.92, "end": 24334.92}, {"text": "e", "start": 24361.92, "end": 24364.92}, {"text": "e", "start": 24391.84, "end": 24394.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 24421.84, "end": 24424.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 24451.84, "end": 24454.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 24481.76, "end": 24484.76}, {"text": "e", "start": 24511.718, "end": 24514.718}, {"text": "e", "start": 24541.718, "end": 24544.718}, {"text": "e", "start": 24571.638, "end": 24574.638}, {"text": "e", "start": 24601.638, "end": 24604.638}, {"text": "e", "start": 24631.638, "end": 24634.638}, {"text": "e", "start": 24661.558, "end": 24664.558}, {"text": "e", "start": 24691.52, "end": 24694.52}, {"text": "e", "start": 24721.52, "end": 24724.52}, {"text": "e", "start": 24751.44, "end": 24754.44}, {"text": "e", "start": 24781.44, "end": 24784.44}, {"text": "e", "start": 24811.44, "end": 24814.44}, {"text": "e", "start": 24841.36, "end": 24844.36}, {"text": "e", "start": 24871.32, "end": 24874.32}, {"text": "e", "start": 24901.32, "end": 24904.32}, {"text": "e", "start": 24931.24, "end": 24934.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 24961.24, "end": 24964.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 24991.24, "end": 24994.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 25021.16, "end": 25024.16}, {"text": "e", "start": 25051.12, "end": 25054.12}, {"text": "e", "start": 25081.12, "end": 25084.12}, {"text": "e", "start": 25111.04, "end": 25114.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 25141.04, "end": 25144.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 25171.04, "end": 25174.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 25200.958, "end": 25203.958}, {"text": "e", "start": 25230.92, "end": 25233.92}, {"text": "e", "start": 25260.92, "end": 25263.92}, {"text": "e", "start": 25290.84, "end": 25293.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 25320.84, "end": 25323.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 25350.84, "end": 25353.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 25380.76, "end": 25383.76}, {"text": "e", "start": 25410.718, "end": 25413.718}, {"text": "e", "start": 25440.718, "end": 25443.718}, {"text": "e", "start": 25470.638, "end": 25473.638}, {"text": "e", "start": 25500.638, "end": 25503.638}, {"text": "e", "start": 25530.638, "end": 25533.638}, {"text": "e", "start": 25560.558, "end": 25563.558}, {"text": "e", "start": 25590.52, "end": 25593.52}, {"text": "e", "start": 25620.52, "end": 25623.52}, {"text": "e", "start": 25650.44, "end": 25653.44}, {"text": "e", "start": 25680.44, "end": 25683.44}, {"text": "e", "start": 25710.44, "end": 25713.44}, {"text": "e", "start": 25740.36, "end": 25743.36}, {"text": "e", "start": 25770.32, "end": 25773.32}, {"text": "e", "start": 25800.32, "end": 25803.32}, {"text": "e", "start": 25830.24, "end": 25833.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 25860.24, "end": 25863.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 25890.24, "end": 25893.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 25920.16, "end": 25923.16}, {"text": "e", "start": 25950.12, "end": 25953.12}, {"text": "e", "start": 25980.12, "end": 25983.12}, {"text": "e", "start": 26010.04, "end": 26013.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 26040.04, "end": 26043.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 26070.04, "end": 26073.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 26099.958, "end": 26102.958}, {"text": "e", "start": 26129.92, "end": 26132.92}, {"text": "e", "start": 26159.92, "end": 26162.92}, {"text": "e", "start": 26189.84, "end": 26192.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 26219.84, "end": 26222.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 26249.84, "end": 26252.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 26279.76, "end": 26282.76}, {"text": "e", "start": 26309.718, "end": 26312.718}, {"text": "e", "start": 26339.718, "end": 26342.718}, {"text": "e", "start": 26369.638, "end": 26372.638}, {"text": "e", "start": 26399.638, "end": 26402.638}, {"text": "e", "start": 26429.638, "end": 26432.638}, {"text": "e", "start": 26459.558, "end": 26462.558}, {"text": "e", "start": 26489.52, "end": 26492.52}, {"text": "e", "start": 26519.52, "end": 26522.52}, {"text": "e", "start": 26549.44, "end": 26552.44}, {"text": "e", "start": 26579.44, "end": 26582.44}, {"text": "e", "start": 26609.44, "end": 26612.44}, {"text": "e", "start": 26639.36, "end": 26642.36}, {"text": "e", "start": 26669.318, "end": 26672.318}, {"text": "e", "start": 26699.318, "end": 26702.318}, {"text": "e", "start": 26729.24, "end": 26732.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 26759.24, "end": 26762.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 26789.24, "end": 26792.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 26819.16, "end": 26822.16}, {"text": "e", "start": 26849.12, "end": 26852.12}, {"text": "e", "start": 26879.12, "end": 26882.12}, {"text": "e", "start": 26909.04, "end": 26912.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 26939.04, "end": 26942.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 26969.04, "end": 26972.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 26998.958, "end": 27001.958}, {"text": "e", "start": 27028.92, "end": 27031.92}, {"text": "e", "start": 27058.92, "end": 27061.92}, {"text": "e", "start": 27088.84, "end": 27091.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 27118.84, "end": 27121.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 27148.84, "end": 27151.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 27178.76, "end": 27181.76}, {"text": "e", "start": 27208.718, "end": 27211.718}, {"text": "e", "start": 27238.718, "end": 27241.718}, {"text": "e", "start": 27268.638, "end": 27271.638}, {"text": "e", "start": 27298.638, "end": 27301.638}, {"text": "e", "start": 27328.638, "end": 27331.638}, {"text": "e", "start": 27358.558, "end": 27361.558}, {"text": "e", "start": 27388.52, "end": 27391.52}, {"text": "e", "start": 27418.52, "end": 27421.52}, {"text": "e", "start": 27448.44, "end": 27451.44}, {"text": "e", "start": 27478.44, "end": 27481.44}, {"text": "e", "start": 27508.44, "end": 27511.44}, {"text": "e", "start": 27538.36, "end": 27541.36}, {"text": "e", "start": 27568.318, "end": 27571.318}, {"text": "e", "start": 27598.318, "end": 27601.318}, {"text": "e", "start": 27628.24, "end": 27631.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 27658.24, "end": 27661.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 27688.24, "end": 27691.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 27718.16, "end": 27721.16}, {"text": "e", "start": 27748.12, "end": 27751.12}, {"text": "e", "start": 27778.12, "end": 27781.12}, {"text": "e", "start": 27808.04, "end": 27811.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 27838.04, "end": 27841.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 27868.04, "end": 27871.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 27897.958, "end": 27900.958}, {"text": "e", "start": 27927.92, "end": 27930.92}, {"text": "e", "start": 27957.92, "end": 27960.92}, {"text": "e", "start": 27987.84, "end": 27990.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 28017.84, "end": 28020.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 28047.84, "end": 28050.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 28077.76, "end": 28080.76}, {"text": "e", "start": 28107.718, "end": 28110.718}, {"text": "e", "start": 28137.718, "end": 28140.718}, {"text": "e", "start": 28167.638, "end": 28170.638}, {"text": "e", "start": 28197.638, "end": 28200.638}, {"text": "e", "start": 28227.638, "end": 28230.638}, {"text": "e", "start": 28257.558, "end": 28260.558}, {"text": "e", "start": 28287.52, "end": 28290.52}, {"text": "e", "start": 28317.52, "end": 28320.52}, {"text": "e", "start": 28347.44, "end": 28350.44}, {"text": "e", "start": 28377.44, "end": 28380.44}, {"text": "e", "start": 28407.44, "end": 28410.44}, {"text": "e", "start": 28437.36, "end": 28440.36}, {"text": "e", "start": 28467.318, "end": 28470.318}, {"text": "e", "start": 28497.318, "end": 28500.318}, {"text": "e", "start": 28527.24, "end": 28530.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 28557.24, "end": 28560.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 28587.24, "end": 28590.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 28617.16, "end": 28620.16}, {"text": "e", "start": 28647.12, "end": 28650.12}, {"text": "e", "start": 28677.12, "end": 28680.12}, {"text": "e", "start": 28707.04, "end": 28710.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 28737.04, "end": 28740.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 28767.04, "end": 28770.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 28796.958, "end": 28799.958}, {"text": "e", "start": 28826.92, "end": 28829.92}, {"text": "e", "start": 28856.92, "end": 28859.92}, {"text": "e", "start": 28886.84, "end": 28889.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 28916.84, "end": 28919.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 28946.84, "end": 28949.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 28976.76, "end": 28979.76}, {"text": "e", "start": 29006.718, "end": 29009.718}, {"text": "e", "start": 29036.718, "end": 29039.718}, {"text": "e", "start": 29066.638, "end": 29069.638}, {"text": "e", "start": 29096.638, "end": 29099.638}, {"text": "e", "start": 29126.638, "end": 29129.638}, {"text": "e", "start": 29156.558, "end": 29159.558}, {"text": "e", "start": 29186.52, "end": 29189.52}, {"text": "e", "start": 29216.52, "end": 29219.52}, {"text": "e", "start": 29246.44, "end": 29249.44}, {"text": "e", "start": 29276.44, "end": 29279.44}, {"text": "e", "start": 29306.44, "end": 29309.44}, {"text": "e", "start": 29336.36, "end": 29339.36}, {"text": "e", "start": 29366.318, "end": 29369.318}, {"text": "e", "start": 29396.318, "end": 29399.318}, {"text": "e", "start": 29426.24, "end": 29429.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 29456.24, "end": 29459.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 29486.24, "end": 29489.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 29516.16, "end": 29519.16}, {"text": "e", "start": 29546.12, "end": 29549.12}, {"text": "e", "start": 29576.12, "end": 29579.12}, {"text": "e", "start": 29606.04, "end": 29609.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 29636.04, "end": 29639.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 29666.04, "end": 29669.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 29695.958, "end": 29698.958}, {"text": "e", "start": 29725.92, "end": 29728.92}, {"text": "e", "start": 29755.92, "end": 29758.92}, {"text": "e", "start": 29785.84, "end": 29788.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 29815.84, "end": 29818.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 29845.84, "end": 29848.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 29875.76, "end": 29878.76}, {"text": "e", "start": 29905.718, "end": 29908.718}, {"text": "e", "start": 29935.718, "end": 29938.718}, {"text": "e", "start": 29965.638, "end": 29968.638}, {"text": "e", "start": 29995.638, "end": 29998.638}, {"text": "e", "start": 30025.638, "end": 30028.638}, {"text": "e e", "start": 30055.558, "end": 30059.558}, {"text": "one we're GNA have one minute until we come back one", "start": 30116.04, "end": 30122.316}, {"text": "minute what do you need", "start": 30122.958, "end": 30127.28}, {"text": "okay we're coming back into session now please note that at the beginning of close session committee provided", "start": 30169.08, "end": 30175.76}, {"text": "Direction to invite members of the Hamilton Police Services to remain in closed", "start": 30175.76, "end": 30181.08}, {"text": "session so 9.2 resending of City of Hamilton encampment protocol revised uh", "start": 30181.08, "end": 30188.718}, {"text": "as the Mover councelor spor is there something you would like to make some comments about thank you Deputy Mayor no", "start": 30188.718, "end": 30195.28}, {"text": "comments uh just an amendment that um I'll be placing on the motion and I'll", "start": 30195.28, "end": 30200.84}, {"text": "let staff elaborate on the reason for the amendment So currently in the motion", "start": 30200.84, "end": 30205.958}, {"text": "the report back date to GIC is February 5th that date will be changing to", "start": 30205.958, "end": 30211.68}, {"text": "February 26th the ending date of March 1st would change to March 6th uh brief", "start": 30211.68, "end": 30219.44}, {"text": "reason for that U March 5th is Council so that's when the motion would get ratified but I will allow GM Mater and", "start": 30219.44, "end": 30226.478}, {"text": "director cillo to add um just for the public to understand why the amendment", "start": 30226.478, "end": 30231.84}, {"text": "is coming forward through you okay thank you through chair to the councel we", "start": 30231.84, "end": 30237.398}, {"text": "appreciate that opportunity um in order for us to ensure that we do a very fome comprehensive outline of this we would", "start": 30237.398, "end": 30244.12}, {"text": "appreciate the additional period of time so we can make sure that we bring back that complete picture and complete ask", "start": 30244.12, "end": 30251.558}, {"text": "at the same time thank", "start": 30251.558, "end": 30255.362}, {"text": "you so I'm guessing as that is your Amendment it's just we don't have to", "start": 30256.68, "end": 30262.238}, {"text": "vote on that to accept that right that's just in the correct we'll consider it friendly okay thank", "start": 30262.238, "end": 30268.958}, {"text": "you of course um is there any other speakers wishing", "start": 30268.958, "end": 30274.68}, {"text": "to publicly speak on this matter councelor Dano you're", "start": 30274.68, "end": 30282.08}, {"text": "up thank you chair um some comments on on this issue um so in this role there", "start": 30282.318, "end": 30290.798}, {"text": "are times when we are asked to reach a decision that we believe is in the best interests of the city of Hamilton the", "start": 30290.798, "end": 30297.68}, {"text": "corporation of the city of Hamilton it may not be popular it may not be something that we agree with personally", "start": 30297.68, "end": 30305.16}, {"text": "but we have a duty to act with what we B based on the information that's", "start": 30305.16, "end": 30310.558}, {"text": "available to us what we considered to be the in the best interests of the city so", "start": 30310.558, "end": 30315.68}, {"text": "the issue of encampments and parks for me uh goes back to July 30th 20120 about", "start": 30315.68, "end": 30321.6}, {"text": "a year and a half into the previous term of council uh when encampment supporters went to court and were uh successful in", "start": 30321.6, "end": 30329.76}, {"text": "getting an injunction that prevented the city of Hamilton from removing encampments from Parks the result of", "start": 30329.76, "end": 30337.28}, {"text": "that was the first encampment protocol that was put in place that I voted in", "start": 30337.28, "end": 30343.76}, {"text": "favor of in order to allow the city to manage the issue of encampments and", "start": 30343.76, "end": 30349.478}, {"text": "parks within the context of a legal Challenge on September 20th 2021", "start": 30349.478, "end": 30356.878}, {"text": "uh there was uh the protest at JC Beamer Park where encampment supporters", "start": 30356.878, "end": 30361.92}, {"text": "initiated a confrontation with police and it has been a growing contentious", "start": 30361.92, "end": 30367.92}, {"text": "issue since then and it's very interesting that today we don't see any of those encampment supporters here in", "start": 30367.92, "end": 30375}, {"text": "Chambers because the public opinion on this issue has completely switched as", "start": 30375, "end": 30380.798}, {"text": "residents have finally been able to speak up and that's not without efforts", "start": 30380.798, "end": 30386.36}, {"text": "by encampment supporters to silence opposition I've had personally code of", "start": 30386.36, "end": 30391.68}, {"text": "conduct violations filed against me for speaking up on this issue I've even been threatened by one of the lawyers for the", "start": 30391.68, "end": 30398.28}, {"text": "encampment applicants personally because of my uh my public advocacy for my", "start": 30398.28, "end": 30405.44}, {"text": "residents I voted against withdrawing the first protocol because it was", "start": 30405.44, "end": 30411.08}, {"text": "necessary and what did that lead to that led to this current uh", "start": 30411.08, "end": 30417.958}, {"text": "challenge this term of council uh encampment supporters again went back to", "start": 30417.958, "end": 30423.2}, {"text": "court to hold our Parks hostage and once again I voted in favor of a new", "start": 30423.2, "end": 30429}, {"text": "encampment protocol in order to uphold the city's interest in the context of that Court", "start": 30429, "end": 30434.558}, {"text": "challenge it's been four and a half years and I believe my voting record and", "start": 30434.558, "end": 30439.76}, {"text": "my positions on this issue have been the same and that the encampment protocol has been necessary to protect the", "start": 30439.76, "end": 30446.2}, {"text": "interests of the city and taxpayers and I understand is not popular with", "start": 30446.2, "end": 30451.52}, {"text": "residents but my genuine opinion is that it was necessary however we now have a", "start": 30451.52, "end": 30458.478}, {"text": "definitive Landmark decision from the Superior Court the city of Hamilton did", "start": 30458.478, "end": 30463.558}, {"text": "not ask for this ruling we were forced to go to court by encampment supporters", "start": 30463.558, "end": 30468.798}, {"text": "not at our choosing so we've already effectively as a council I believe unanimously made a", "start": 30468.798, "end": 30475.84}, {"text": "decision decision to end the encampment protocol we voted to Sunset the encampment protocol within the context", "start": 30475.84, "end": 30482.558}, {"text": "of the legal challenge well the legal challenge is over the city was 100%", "start": 30482.558, "end": 30487.6}, {"text": "successful in court and residents concerns were Vindicated councilor spatap for's motion", "start": 30487.6, "end": 30494.92}, {"text": "simply sets uh a new threshold for the date when that encampment protocol will be ended it sets specific action that", "start": 30494.92, "end": 30503.52}, {"text": "Parks will be cleaned and homeless individ ual will be given uh access to", "start": 30503.52, "end": 30508.84}, {"text": "warm safe and uh dignified um shelter space with the", "start": 30508.84, "end": 30514.558}, {"text": "supports that they need and it also sets next steps for resources that are needed", "start": 30514.558, "end": 30519.958}, {"text": "um in order to implement this direction and from my discussions with", "start": 30519.958, "end": 30525.478}, {"text": "residents from our town hall meetings from our town hall at Hill Park our Ward", "start": 30525.478, "end": 30530.878}, {"text": "Town Halls a final decision on this issue is long pass through do to address the", "start": 30530.878, "end": 30537.44}, {"text": "reality of encampments in the city of Hamilton we need to listen to the advice from police the advice of our senior", "start": 30537.44, "end": 30543.318}, {"text": "staff the advice and and opinions of our goodfaith homeless support organizations", "start": 30543.318, "end": 30549.6}, {"text": "we need to consider the well-being of homeless individuals and above all consider the residents who have been", "start": 30549.6, "end": 30556}, {"text": "beyond patient for the past four and a half years so in my mind this vote is", "start": 30556, "end": 30561.318}, {"text": "very simple if you are opposed to encampments in Parks you vote Yes if you supportting campon Parks you vote no", "start": 30561.318, "end": 30568.558}, {"text": "thank you thank you counselor mayor oh thanks very much um I", "start": 30568.558, "end": 30576}, {"text": "appreciate the opportunity to uh to say a very few words because I've been", "start": 30576, "end": 30581.318}, {"text": "um very carefully watching how the situation has changed over the last two", "start": 30581.318, "end": 30587.958}, {"text": "years really since we got elected in 20122 uh and I want to say that uh I", "start": 30587.958, "end": 30594.08}, {"text": "don't disagree with the um comments made by councelor Dano around the commitment", "start": 30594.08, "end": 30600.878}, {"text": "that this Council has already made in uh sunsetting the protocol", "start": 30600.878, "end": 30608}, {"text": "and that was made in good faith by me and I suspect I would hope by everyone", "start": 30608, "end": 30613.36}, {"text": "around this Council table back in September now there have been a couple of attempts to change that um sunsetting", "start": 30613.36, "end": 30621}, {"text": "because we we clearly said we were going to Sunset this um when we had the opportunity", "start": 30621, "end": 30626.798}, {"text": "uh to see where the court decision would be we got that decision the time has", "start": 30626.798, "end": 30632.878}, {"text": "come to fulfill the commitment that we made to each other to the the city uh to", "start": 30632.878, "end": 30638.76}, {"text": "the residents that the protocol would be sunsetted and what the staff have done", "start": 30638.76, "end": 30644.398}, {"text": "working with I I believe with the Mover and secretor of this motion um was put", "start": 30644.398, "end": 30650.84}, {"text": "some work around how do we now accomplish that that decision that was", "start": 30650.84, "end": 30657.52}, {"text": "uh foreshadowed let's say back in September and is being reinforced in this motion and even today the amendment", "start": 30657.52, "end": 30665.2}, {"text": "I think really does um reflect uh the collaboration with staff in terms of how", "start": 30665.2, "end": 30671.558}, {"text": "are we Su how can we successfully do this in a way that's continues to be um", "start": 30671.558, "end": 30677}, {"text": "responsible and compassionate uh and uh and and fair and balanced I think which", "start": 30677, "end": 30683.36}, {"text": "is one of the things that uh uh that we we need to address I think that's very", "start": 30683.36, "end": 30689.478}, {"text": "very clear I I will be supporting the um motion because I think it's the step", "start": 30689.478, "end": 30696.76}, {"text": "that's that's next uh absolutely I think it's also important to to identify though that I don't think", "start": 30696.76, "end": 30704.36}, {"text": "we would necessarily be here had we not made the Investments that we've made uh", "start": 30704.36, "end": 30710.44}, {"text": "in the last uh budgets frankly uh around uh housing and homeless business uh", "start": 30710.44, "end": 30716.68}, {"text": "supports and I know that there sometimes a question as to whether all of those", "start": 30716.68, "end": 30722.28}, {"text": "resources are necessary uh and I would say I believe that they are and I believe that the conversation uh going", "start": 30722.28, "end": 30729.12}, {"text": "forward uh needs to be making sure that we continue to find Opportunities to", "start": 30729.12, "end": 30735.798}, {"text": "have our partners and the other orders of government assist uh more robustly uh", "start": 30735.798, "end": 30741.16}, {"text": "with the funding of these kinds of programs as well as uh the permanent he housing because I think all of us would", "start": 30741.16, "end": 30747.318}, {"text": "also agree that temporary shelter is not good enough I mean people deserve to have a place to live uh with the", "start": 30747.318, "end": 30753.958}, {"text": "supports uh and services that help them to uh do that successfully uh they need", "start": 30753.958, "end": 30760.16}, {"text": "income levels that are that enable them uh to to live literally uh as humans uh", "start": 30760.16, "end": 30767.238}, {"text": "in uh in uh our city and in in uh our our Province and in our country I don't", "start": 30767.238, "end": 30772.318}, {"text": "think those things are things that we're going to have to that we're going to be able to to address but they are things that belong at the other orders of", "start": 30772.318, "end": 30778.398}, {"text": "government so I look forward to working with our partners and Community uh with the other orders of government to ensure", "start": 30778.398, "end": 30785.76}, {"text": "that the journey that we are on uh is is one that uh we will have more uh", "start": 30785.76, "end": 30791.878}, {"text": "supports from those of uh orders of government uh to help us um be more be", "start": 30791.878, "end": 30798.638}, {"text": "successful but also uh to take us to that next uh place where we need to be", "start": 30798.638, "end": 30803.718}, {"text": "the city can't afford a loan nor can our Community Partners in terms of the not for-profit uh and providers of Housing", "start": 30803.718, "end": 30810.558}, {"text": "and supports um without them so I'm I'm I'm supportive this from my perspective", "start": 30810.558, "end": 30816.958}, {"text": "this is a uh this is uh the culmination of the good faith commitment that we all", "start": 30816.958, "end": 30822.398}, {"text": "made in September uh and I want to say that it's something that um I don't think we'd be able to be um even", "start": 30822.398, "end": 30830.16}, {"text": "contemplating had it not been for the Investments that we've made uh over the last couple of budgets um so on that", "start": 30830.16, "end": 30836.92}, {"text": "note um thanks very much for the opportunity chair thank you mayor and now on to my", "start": 30836.92, "end": 30843.2}, {"text": "mother's favorite counselor councelor Jackson we'll parachute her in for the", "start": 30843.2, "end": 30848.398}, {"text": "next time next election thank you Deputy Mayor tedison um I want to salute and", "start": 30848.398, "end": 30854.558}, {"text": "applaud uh W 14 counselor Mike spora for his motion today uh working closely with", "start": 30854.558, "end": 30861.398}, {"text": "staff and the staff providing input in language to it finally finally finally on behalf of the", "start": 30861.398, "end": 30869.36}, {"text": "overwhelming law-abiding residents that I represent on the East Mountain and I don't think their sentiment was", "start": 30869.36, "end": 30875.36}, {"text": "exclusive to the East Mountain this motion finally provides an end date in", "start": 30875.36, "end": 30881.28}, {"text": "providing direction of resending the current encampment protocol Deputy Mayor Tess and I'm going", "start": 30881.28, "end": 30887.76}, {"text": "to say it again for the last 18 months and I never voted for the encampment protocol back in August of 2023 I get", "start": 30887.76, "end": 30894.718}, {"text": "almost uh in vision and project uh and I'm nothing intelligent but I could almost be Clairvoyant in saying about", "start": 30894.718, "end": 30902.958}, {"text": "what the consequences were going to be in our community as more and more neighborhoods more and more Wards were", "start": 30902.958, "end": 30909.84}, {"text": "experiencing the lack of enjoyment of their public and peaceful spaces of", "start": 30909.84, "end": 30914.958}, {"text": "their neighborhood parks for their families children seniors it was almost like for 18 months we uh were giving a", "start": 30914.958, "end": 30923}, {"text": "disproportional amount of our attention and time to roughly 2,000 in our community that are houseless that", "start": 30923, "end": 30928.718}, {"text": "includes the roughly 300 uh people living in tents in our parks and almost like abandoning 568 th000 other", "start": 30928.718, "end": 30937.28}, {"text": "hamiltonians and you could tell that Deputy Mayor tedison the growing anger and the rage was increasing across the", "start": 30937.28, "end": 30944.318}, {"text": "community and you know the last 18 months what the protocol did deputy mayor tatterson in spite of maybe best", "start": 30944.318, "end": 30950.638}, {"text": "intentions uh it pitted the housed against the unhoused in our community", "start": 30950.638, "end": 30956.44}, {"text": "and all the results of increasing amount of urination defecation narcotics", "start": 30956.44, "end": 30962.44}, {"text": "weapons bonfires uh just cause a backlash and an outrage uh in our community and across", "start": 30962.44, "end": 30969.638}, {"text": "neighborhoods and across everyday families that normally normally had great sympathy for", "start": 30969.638, "end": 30976.68}, {"text": "those most in need but it just it just extended to a breaking point that", "start": 30976.68, "end": 30983.12}, {"text": "sympathy Factor Park should never never have been a solution to homelessness the protocol enabled it none of my", "start": 30983.12, "end": 30989.76}, {"text": "colleagues created homelessness I agree but the protocol in my humble opinion", "start": 30989.76, "end": 30995.44}, {"text": "enabled it so this Motion in my opinion gives staff a new leverage in will with", "start": 30995.44, "end": 31002.68}, {"text": "hopeful support that a majority today and a ratification next week if it comes to that will give staff a new leverage", "start": 31002.68, "end": 31010.638}, {"text": "and on staff Deputy Mayor tedison I want to say publicly I feel very badly for", "start": 31010.638, "end": 31016.92}, {"text": "our housing staff working under general manager Grace Mater with director be", "start": 31016.92, "end": 31023.478}, {"text": "manager Blake director Rob mastriani and their teams they have been absolutely", "start": 31023.478, "end": 31029.28}, {"text": "amazing and in my humble opinion underappreciated and have borne the", "start": 31029.28, "end": 31034.6}, {"text": "brunt of the growing anger across the community they were simply doing their", "start": 31034.6, "end": 31040}, {"text": "best to enact and deal with and implement the direct of council with the", "start": 31040, "end": 31046.718}, {"text": "protocol and I could sense that they were taking it on the chin unfortunately", "start": 31046.718, "end": 31052.318}, {"text": "because they were the Frontline staff and the first ones to respond in Outreach to our neighborhood parks sadly", "start": 31052.318, "end": 31059.798}, {"text": "the more lawlessness and criminality started to increase and take over the", "start": 31059.798, "end": 31065.398}, {"text": "neighborhood parks we heard some delegates today still repeatedly several", "start": 31065.398, "end": 31070.718}, {"text": "coming in on a regular basis begging pleading imploring ing us to help them", "start": 31070.718, "end": 31077.238}, {"text": "get back to normal lives Ramsay's verdict justice Ramsay's verdict is our", "start": 31077.238, "end": 31082.958}, {"text": "springboard now at this time and the protocol even the title encampment", "start": 31082.958, "end": 31090.04}, {"text": "protocol in 18 months has given a negative connotation to that word you", "start": 31090.04, "end": 31095.958}, {"text": "can't mention protocol wherever I go because people immediately know the negative connotation of it so to", "start": 31095.958, "end": 31102.44}, {"text": "conclude deputy mayor uh tedison I hope that any", "start": 31102.44, "end": 31107.798}, {"text": "tepidness by some members of council over the past months Tom we've got to wait for that Court decision Tom I get", "start": 31107.798, "end": 31114.878}, {"text": "it you know parks are not we but Tom we've got to wait for that Court decision Ramsay's verdict at least", "start": 31114.878, "end": 31121.68}, {"text": "amongst my community the responses I've received they said to me Tom Justice Ramsey gets it and so let's springboard", "start": 31121.68, "end": 31129.398}, {"text": "off that let's not be tepid about any worrisome down the road and let's never", "start": 31129.398, "end": 31134.76}, {"text": "forget mayor tatterson that our Parks bylaw says there's no overnight camping", "start": 31134.76, "end": 31141.12}, {"text": "unless you have a permit I highly doubt any 10 people asked for or acquired a", "start": 31141.12, "end": 31147}, {"text": "permit I'm strongly supportive and happy to Second councelor spap for's motion thank you Deputy Mayor tatterson thank", "start": 31147, "end": 31153.558}, {"text": "you councelor Jackson moving now to councelor", "start": 31153.558, "end": 31158.636}, {"text": "Clark thank you deputy mayor before I provide any comments can I ask a quick question of our staff", "start": 31159.28, "end": 31166.08}, {"text": "with regards to the shelter spaces that currently exist and all of the changes", "start": 31166.08, "end": 31171.718}, {"text": "that we have made can you please enunciate publicly how many shelter spaces that we have created what's the", "start": 31171.718, "end": 31179}, {"text": "grand total of all of our shelter spaces director Barrett through you", "start": 31179, "end": 31186.2}, {"text": "counselor so the the spaces that we created that Council supported there are 192 temporary shelter beds in addition", "start": 31186.2, "end": 31193.878}, {"text": "to the existing permanent beds the temporary shelter beds right now there are 50 of those 192 remaining to be", "start": 31193.878, "end": 31201.638}, {"text": "brought online but the others are are live and operational in addition to that you supported the onboarding of 80", "start": 31201.638, "end": 31209.318}, {"text": "temporary outdoor shelter beds at Tiffany Barton and those particular beds are meaningful because we do hear from", "start": 31209.318, "end": 31216.318}, {"text": "folks that parts of the reasons they sometimes don't want to go to shelters is because they want to stay with their", "start": 31216.318, "end": 31222}, {"text": "uh they're in they're they're a couple so they're in a relationship or perhap perhaps they have a pet that they don't want to leave behind so those 80 beds", "start": 31222, "end": 31229.44}, {"text": "are low barrier and will allow us to accommodate those folks in shelters uh and that's the first time for us to be", "start": 31229.44, "end": 31235.28}, {"text": "able to do that and then in addition to that we have our permanent beds as well as our our overflow uh beds in hotels", "start": 31235.28, "end": 31243.638}, {"text": "for families so at this point in fact Council has supported increasing our shelter system by", "start": 31243.638, "end": 31250.28}, {"text": "80% and so the grand total of all the shelter beds available temporary and permanent", "start": 31250.28, "end": 31257.238}, {"text": "we're doing quick math", "start": 31258.6, "end": 31261.716}, {"text": "here through the chair there are 796 total beds inclusive of those", "start": 31266.318, "end": 31272}, {"text": "temporary beds oh thank you for that I and I think it's", "start": 31272, "end": 31277.28}, {"text": "important that the public understand that um the council has been addressing", "start": 31277.28, "end": 31284.44}, {"text": "the issue of of homelessness while we are also defending our position within", "start": 31284.44, "end": 31290.16}, {"text": "the courts um Council Jackson has spoken at Great length to um judge Ramsay's", "start": 31290.16, "end": 31299.558}, {"text": "decision one of the things in common law that was important was the", "start": 31299.558, "end": 31306.478}, {"text": "availability of shelter spaces so if you don't have shelter spaces available then you can't", "start": 31306.478, "end": 31314.28}, {"text": "legitimately according to the court say you you can't sleep in the park", "start": 31314.28, "end": 31319.958}, {"text": "overnight um and so that's where we are", "start": 31319.958, "end": 31325.08}, {"text": "today when the protocol was first brought forward some of you will recall I", "start": 31325.08, "end": 31330.878}, {"text": "cautioned that the protocol was going to divide this community I cautioned that this protocol", "start": 31330.878, "end": 31338.558}, {"text": "was going to create um significant disagreements between", "start": 31338.558, "end": 31344.558}, {"text": "people who have their backyard facing an encampment and the people who are living", "start": 31344.558, "end": 31350.52}, {"text": "in the encampment I predicted that there would be violence and there was I", "start": 31350.52, "end": 31358.798}, {"text": "predicted um that there would be challenges within the encampments and an", "start": 31358.798, "end": 31364.36}, {"text": "increase in crime and there was the the the challenge that we have", "start": 31364.36, "end": 31372}, {"text": "been faced with and I think the courts really addressed it it is the balance between what the", "start": 31372, "end": 31378.84}, {"text": "public would expect through the Charter of Rights and Freedoms in terms of their personal enjoyment of their private", "start": 31378.84, "end": 31385.798}, {"text": "property and the rights of individuals who don't have a home and are", "start": 31385.798, "end": 31392.52}, {"text": "tenting we struggled as a council to find that balance and I believe that we", "start": 31392.52, "end": 31400.28}, {"text": "have and it's important that we ensure that the public understand that", "start": 31400.28, "end": 31406.718}, {"text": "this may change two years from now we may find ourselves um deluged with more", "start": 31406.718, "end": 31412.92}, {"text": "uh unhoused individuals who are really truly struggling and we may need to modify our programming again but the", "start": 31412.92, "end": 31419.76}, {"text": "fact of the matter is we didn't approach it from a hard line we approached it from what we could defend in the courts", "start": 31419.76, "end": 31427.6}, {"text": "and we approached it from how we could help those who are finding themselves unhoused what is missing in all of this", "start": 31427.6, "end": 31435.92}, {"text": "is funding from the province of Ontario and funding from the federal government", "start": 31435.92, "end": 31441.52}, {"text": "that is what is missing from this and I understand and I have no problem sharing", "start": 31441.52, "end": 31446.558}, {"text": "our receipts if you will with the MPP from upper uh gland BR or whatever the", "start": 31446.558, "end": 31452.52}, {"text": "case is by all means uh we're fully available for an audit to show you exactly how we spent that money but what", "start": 31452.52, "end": 31460.718}, {"text": "that will show is that there is a complete imbalance in terms of how how much money was being invested by the", "start": 31460.718, "end": 31467.16}, {"text": "province of Ontario and how much money was invested by property", "start": 31467.16, "end": 31472.398}, {"text": "taxpayers and that in itself has been unfair thank you thank you councelor", "start": 31472.398, "end": 31479.04}, {"text": "Clark very Salient points next we're going to go to councelor", "start": 31479.04, "end": 31484.638}, {"text": "Francis thanks Deputy Mayor tatterson just a brief comment from me sorry this uh decision to repeal this", "start": 31484.638, "end": 31491.36}, {"text": "encampment protocol in my opinion is the most important decision to date in this term of council with Justice Ramsay's", "start": 31491.36, "end": 31498.92}, {"text": "Crystal Clear decision the time to move forward has come we need to move forward with clean Parks free of drug", "start": 31498.92, "end": 31505.04}, {"text": "paraphernalia free of crime the days of giving the impression that H in public spaces are free-for-all for folks from", "start": 31505.04, "end": 31511.6}, {"text": "surrounding municipalities to come and act Lawless and Camp needs to end and by", "start": 31511.6, "end": 31516.958}, {"text": "repealing this protocol we will finally head in the right direction for our residents and we could focus on getting hamiltonian host so I want to thank", "start": 31516.958, "end": 31525.16}, {"text": "councelor spor for bringing this forward at the first opportunity I want to thank legal staff for their hard work on this", "start": 31525.16, "end": 31530.638}, {"text": "file and thanks to Justice Ramsey for laying it all out in black and white for everyone thank you thanks councelor", "start": 31530.638, "end": 31537.2}, {"text": "Francis councelor Wang thank you um I", "start": 31537.2, "end": 31542.398}, {"text": "wanted to hearken back to some of the comments that uh mayor spoke of and also to what councelor Clark had also spoken", "start": 31542.398, "end": 31549.478}, {"text": "of it's been um since being elected in 2022 it has been", "start": 31549.478, "end": 31555.76}, {"text": "probably one of the biggest challenges that this Council has faced and as part", "start": 31555.76, "end": 31560.878}, {"text": "of that this Council was also provided a um a road map uh by actually at the time", "start": 31560.878, "end": 31568.638}, {"text": "very new incoming director of housing Michelle beard and it was about ending chronic homelessness so I wonder", "start": 31568.638, "end": 31576.04}, {"text": "director is there um perhaps you can give us a quick overview of how are we doing where are we at because I think", "start": 31576.04, "end": 31583.318}, {"text": "that that'll require a bigger conversation I don't expect you to give a presentation at all but I think that", "start": 31583.318, "end": 31589.36}, {"text": "there's a real opportunity to speak out loud that now we are at the midpoint we", "start": 31589.36, "end": 31595.398}, {"text": "are exploring what is the possibility with um councelor spatap for's motion I", "start": 31595.398, "end": 31601.92}, {"text": "don't want to Discount the amount of work that has been um at in front of", "start": 31601.92, "end": 31607.558}, {"text": "this Council and by City staff so I wonder if you could just speak on that very quickly through the chair thank you", "start": 31607.558, "end": 31613.638}, {"text": "for the question counselor and you're and you're right back at the probably at the outset of this term of council we", "start": 31613.638, "end": 31619.6}, {"text": "came before this Council to talk about the issue of homelessness chronic homelessness in particular in Hamilton", "start": 31619.6, "end": 31626.44}, {"text": "and we laid out a plan of where we needed to invest and what we would recommend in order to address the issue", "start": 31626.44, "end": 31633.2}, {"text": "within our city and over a period of two years Council has invested in a number", "start": 31633.2, "end": 31638.238}, {"text": "of those strategies and so things have moved forward and I think it's a valued question because I think we spend a lot", "start": 31638.238, "end": 31643.558}, {"text": "of time talking about efforts with respect to encampments and that's certainly a piece of um the homelessness", "start": 31643.558, "end": 31651.12}, {"text": "issue in Hamilton however it's it's a small piece but I think it's quite a v a", "start": 31651.12, "end": 31656.28}, {"text": "visible issue and that's what we end up seeing the majority of our budget in fact is not necessarily spent on", "start": 31656.28, "end": 31662.2}, {"text": "encampments and instead we invest in things like social housing units and in Hamilton we have approximately 7,000 rgi", "start": 31662.2, "end": 31670.2}, {"text": "units and uh Council has invested additional rent subsidies to allow us to", "start": 31670.2, "end": 31675.718}, {"text": "house even more people in addition to that we invested in a tenant support program this Council supported and that", "start": 31675.718, "end": 31682.36}, {"text": "program has rolled out and we have in a Hamilton emergency fund so we're doing a lot of work to actually keep people", "start": 31682.36, "end": 31688.36}, {"text": "housed and prevent them from ever experiencing homelessness wherever possible I think some of that flies", "start": 31688.36, "end": 31694.12}, {"text": "under the radar sometimes and perhaps is not as visible and given we are two years into that program I think it is", "start": 31694.12, "end": 31700.16}, {"text": "timely suggests that we'll come back uh this spring with an overall update for", "start": 31700.16, "end": 31705.36}, {"text": "you with respect to how we're doing on those strategies overall where we're going and what homelessness looks like", "start": 31705.36, "end": 31711.44}, {"text": "in Hamilton at this point in time thanks counselor or sorry thanks director bar", "start": 31711.44, "end": 31717.638}, {"text": "at this point I'm just gonna ask counselor wng to just hold off for a sec well we have a vote to extend the time", "start": 31717.638, "end": 31722.84}, {"text": "because we're approaching 5:30 so I'm going to suggest that we take a time at 7 o'clock and can I have", "start": 31722.84, "end": 31731.28}, {"text": "counselor okay councelor Jackson and counselor MCM thank", "start": 31731.28, "end": 31736.718}, {"text": "you I'm going to say PM as at at the moment thank you okay so we can do that", "start": 31736.718, "end": 31742.08}, {"text": "with a show of hands to oh it's an electronic vot it's a two majority okay", "start": 31742.08, "end": 31748.36}, {"text": "okay so my computer's off so I'm gonna have to", "start": 31748.36, "end": 31753.396}, {"text": "councelor Paul are you able to", "start": 31765.12, "end": 31768.28}, {"text": "vote okay so we can we've got a 14 to one vote so that carries we're going to", "start": 31780.52, "end": 31786.08}, {"text": "go until seven before we if we in case we have to have another vote we'll have one then councelor Wayne you still have", "start": 31786.08, "end": 31791.638}, {"text": "the floor and I'm going to say you still have a little bit of time go", "start": 31791.638, "end": 31797.238}, {"text": "ahead thank you Deputy Mayor I appreciate that very quick overview and", "start": 31797.238, "end": 31803.04}, {"text": "I know um just based on that last comment that where there will be an update coming forward sometime in", "start": 31803.04, "end": 31812.6}, {"text": "quarter dot dot dot is that a question through through the chair um I", "start": 31812.6, "end": 31820.16}, {"text": "would expect that you'll see it in either April or May with an update on progress and where we are at this point in time but I think GM Mater has", "start": 31820.16, "end": 31827.04}, {"text": "something to add thanks very much to the chair I", "start": 31827.04, "end": 31832.238}, {"text": "just try it again uh through the chair I just would like to add to though it's not only the Investments that this", "start": 31839.878, "end": 31846.238}, {"text": "Council has made through to the um homeless population and to all those supports under the Housing Services", "start": 31846.238, "end": 31851.76}, {"text": "umbrella it's also the commitment that they made through the housing sustainability investment road map and", "start": 31851.76, "end": 31857.2}, {"text": "about that next phase of housing in order for us to prepare as people move along the Continuum and I think it's", "start": 31857.2, "end": 31863.52}, {"text": "really important that we bring those two pieces together because it's not just about the reaction to the crisis it is", "start": 31863.52, "end": 31870.36}, {"text": "about that longer term solution and Justin Lewis and his team has been diligently working on that as well so I", "start": 31870.36, "end": 31876.44}, {"text": "think it's really important that we balance that and that that everyone understands that as", "start": 31876.44, "end": 31882.6}, {"text": "well thank you general manager all this is to say that as much as we are", "start": 31883.52, "end": 31889.28}, {"text": "debating the encampment protocol today and I am thankful that we are now looking at potentially a way forward in", "start": 31889.28, "end": 31895.878}, {"text": "terms of a date in terms of a process and in terms of just additional Direction this is one piece of the", "start": 31895.878, "end": 31905.398}, {"text": "greater challenge of homelessness chronic homelessness and it's also", "start": 31905.398, "end": 31910.44}, {"text": "something that is not just only suffered by us the city of Hamilton it has suffered across the entire Province", "start": 31910.44, "end": 31917.718}, {"text": "entire entirety of this nation and it is something that we as a", "start": 31917.718, "end": 31924.44}, {"text": "council are being extremely Mindful and extremely um prudent in terms of how we", "start": 31924.44, "end": 31931.558}, {"text": "are spending taxpayer dollars so I do want to acknowledge that uh I am", "start": 31931.558, "end": 31937.12}, {"text": "thankful for this motion coming forward but I am also extremely thankful for the good work that our staff our team uh", "start": 31937.12, "end": 31944.76}, {"text": "Hamilton Police Services and Beyond has been doing this work on behalf of our", "start": 31944.76, "end": 31950.798}, {"text": "residents of the city of Hamilton thank you thank you councelor Wing councelor Alex", "start": 31950.798, "end": 31957.478}, {"text": "Wilson thank you through chair uh I believe it was Counselor Clark who asked", "start": 31958.04, "end": 31963.52}, {"text": "about shelter bed availability um through you to Housing Services staff", "start": 31963.52, "end": 31969.08}, {"text": "can we guarantee or how confident can we be that come March 6th um there will be sufficient shelter space for the", "start": 31969.08, "end": 31975.44}, {"text": "unhoused or population requiring shelter in the city of Hamilton um if we can't", "start": 31975.44, "end": 31980.84}, {"text": "guarantee based on the 800ish beds what what's a relative confidence level that they'll be sufficient", "start": 31980.84, "end": 31988.316}, {"text": "shelter through the chair uh thank you for the question counselor so uh at this", "start": 31988.478, "end": 31993.68}, {"text": "point in time we do have some vacant beds within the shelter system um I", "start": 31993.68, "end": 31998.718}, {"text": "think the more important piece is that we continue to have a shelter the shelter capacity overall is quite a", "start": 31998.718, "end": 32004.76}, {"text": "fluid situation and at this point in time we do have people that are coming into the shelter daily but we're also", "start": 32004.76, "end": 32011.04}, {"text": "having people leave the shelter daily uh we would say there's flow in the system and that's not a problem at this point", "start": 32011.04, "end": 32017.238}, {"text": "in time and so um can I say confidently that's the case on March 8th or or other", "start": 32017.238, "end": 32023.36}, {"text": "not necessarily however it's been consistently the case over the past", "start": 32023.36, "end": 32028.398}, {"text": "while and so we're we we would expect that's what we'll continue to see thank you really appreciate that answer", "start": 32028.398, "end": 32037.636}, {"text": "um following up I believe the motion speaks about a forthcoming report back", "start": 32037.92, "end": 32043.16}, {"text": "uh moved to mid-February with then Council ratification on March 5th talking about additional resources", "start": 32043.16, "end": 32049.558}, {"text": "required um to enact this change um through you deputy mayor uh to", "start": 32049.558, "end": 32058.08}, {"text": "our corporate services team are those being referred to the budget process if they're coming in mid-February are those", "start": 32058.08, "end": 32065.238}, {"text": "in your asks um we don't know what those resource requirements are right now but just wondering where does paying for", "start": 32065.238, "end": 32071.6}, {"text": "them come from through the deputy mayor if the", "start": 32071.6, "end": 32077.84}, {"text": "requests um are brought before committee through the budget cycle through the 2025 budget cycle could form part of the", "start": 32077.84, "end": 32085.398}, {"text": "deliberations if they come forward after the budget is approved it could form", "start": 32085.398, "end": 32091.16}, {"text": "part of some in-year considerations for committee and coun coun based on the dates and the motion", "start": 32091.16, "end": 32099.12}, {"text": "do we have a sense of which which process that's likely to go or we we're just not sure where our budget process", "start": 32099.12, "end": 32104.238}, {"text": "is going to wrap up so either are possible at this moment in time through the deputy mayor that budget process", "start": 32104.238, "end": 32110.28}, {"text": "window would be somewhere between Fe February 12th and March 9th so subject", "start": 32110.28, "end": 32115.638}, {"text": "to that window in the timing of the report and Decisions by committee and", "start": 32115.638, "end": 32122}, {"text": "Council thank you so we it possible the timeline will make line up and it's ultimately our our decision as Council", "start": 32122, "end": 32128.878}, {"text": "and committee where where we're looking for funding sources uh I think that's it for my", "start": 32128.878, "end": 32134.68}, {"text": "questions through you chair just a couple of comments from me um I have some concerns with this direction I", "start": 32134.68, "end": 32140.28}, {"text": "think my biggest concern though is we're ending something today we're saying we", "start": 32140.28, "end": 32145.6}, {"text": "will transfer to something else we don't know what we'll figure out what that something else is in mid-February how", "start": 32145.6, "end": 32151.04}, {"text": "much it costs in mid-February um we'll have one meeting to talk about it we'll confirm it the next week at Council and", "start": 32151.04, "end": 32156.76}, {"text": "then the very next day that's the policy that will be in place come March 6th guiding this I don't know what that", "start": 32156.76, "end": 32162.68}, {"text": "policy is I don't know what those resources are I I don't know anything about what", "start": 32162.68, "end": 32169.08}, {"text": "that actual plan will look like and so it makes me very very uncomfortable saying I support this formulation of a", "start": 32169.08, "end": 32175.04}, {"text": "plan but we don't have the plan in front of us yet as to how the actual process for enforcing this will look like what", "start": 32175.04, "end": 32181}, {"text": "are the resources required um and so for those Reasons I'm deeply uncomfortable with moving forward", "start": 32181, "end": 32186.718}, {"text": "with this direction today I don't necessarily have a concern with the ultimate direction of coming up with a", "start": 32186.718, "end": 32192.318}, {"text": "new plan revising our encampment protocol or winding it down in Rel light of new decisions and ensuring there's a", "start": 32192.318, "end": 32198.478}, {"text": "new system in place and new resources in place without seeing that second plan", "start": 32198.478, "end": 32204.44}, {"text": "that we're transitioning to and making a decision between two there's just no way in good conscious I can vote in favor of", "start": 32204.44, "end": 32210.878}, {"text": "winding plan a down in favor of Plan B without knowing Plan B so for those Reasons I'm not able to support the", "start": 32210.878, "end": 32216.958}, {"text": "motion today thank you councelor a Wilson let's", "start": 32216.958, "end": 32223.878}, {"text": "go over to on big screen councelor Pauls thank you and I won't be long so um I", "start": 32223.878, "end": 32230.638}, {"text": "just uh I think we waited patiently for the Court ruling and now it is time to", "start": 32230.638, "end": 32237.238}, {"text": "end the encampment um we will always have legal", "start": 32237.238, "end": 32243.08}, {"text": "challenges in the city always but we as a city must take a", "start": 32243.08, "end": 32248.2}, {"text": "stand and that stand is to end encampments you know we talk about", "start": 32248.2, "end": 32254.878}, {"text": "housing we know we need housing we know that we have shortage of housing we know", "start": 32254.878, "end": 32260.238}, {"text": "we need more affordable housing but what the residents saw was people living in", "start": 32260.238, "end": 32267.238}, {"text": "Parks taking drugs doing crime fire and this is this", "start": 32267.238, "end": 32274.16}, {"text": "is a big divide between people who really need housing and people who need rehab and", "start": 32274.16, "end": 32281.958}, {"text": "until we address that until we know how many people live out in the parks that", "start": 32281.958, "end": 32288.638}, {"text": "really need help with rehab we need to invest more money on", "start": 32288.638, "end": 32294.76}, {"text": "rehab and because that's what people look at homelessness people that have emailed me about homeless they're not", "start": 32294.76, "end": 32301.52}, {"text": "saying they can't afford a house they can't afford an apartment because surely", "start": 32301.52, "end": 32307.16}, {"text": "we could subsidize people that if it's just housing so until we divide the the", "start": 32307.16, "end": 32313.878}, {"text": "people that really need house affordable housing and the people that need rehab", "start": 32313.878, "end": 32319.08}, {"text": "we will never get this solve but one thing I know that we must move people", "start": 32319.08, "end": 32325.12}, {"text": "out of the parks not for our sake not for the sake of people that want to use the park but also for the sake of the", "start": 32325.12, "end": 32332.478}, {"text": "people that live in the park it is unsafe to imagine living in a park when", "start": 32332.478, "end": 32339.44}, {"text": "it's below 10 below 20 I cannot imagine it it would be horrible it would be", "start": 32339.44, "end": 32346.12}, {"text": "horrible to sleep in a park on the ground I have a bed I'm comfortable but", "start": 32346.12, "end": 32352.36}, {"text": "I cannot imagine people were leaving them in the park saying it's okay if", "start": 32352.36, "end": 32359}, {"text": "that's what you choose no we need they need help we need ghab we need need to", "start": 32359, "end": 32364.318}, {"text": "put our money where there is Solutions and we need to uh make sure we have", "start": 32364.318, "end": 32369.84}, {"text": "money for uh rehab so like I said this is uh we waited Patiently I have put a", "start": 32369.84, "end": 32375.718}, {"text": "motion a month ago and it didn't go through but I'm glad that this will go through because uh we need um uh to help", "start": 32375.718, "end": 32384.36}, {"text": "them get out of parks and we need our Parks not just for oursel I said remember it's not safe to live in Parks", "start": 32384.36, "end": 32392.36}, {"text": "thank you thank you councelor Pauls councelor", "start": 32392.36, "end": 32398}, {"text": "cret thanks Deputy Mayor tson I agree with what councelor Alex Wilson said earlier but I have a few more comments", "start": 32399.878, "end": 32405.478}, {"text": "to make we know there's not enough shelter spaces out there we know that there are", "start": 32405.478, "end": 32412}, {"text": "people who will be deprived of Housing and homeless in our community regardless of what we do here with a piece of", "start": 32412, "end": 32417.92}, {"text": "paper I've had a chance to talk to staff about this at more length than probably anyone ever wanted to um questions and", "start": 32417.92, "end": 32424.52}, {"text": "answers and talks about this and that and Bon Tiffany um you know and and really ending the encampment protocol", "start": 32424.52, "end": 32430.878}, {"text": "isn't going to change things or change outcomes for people who are deprived of housing it's not going to do anything doesn't propose a", "start": 32430.878, "end": 32437.04}, {"text": "solution it doesn't solve a problem and it suggests to me in the absence of anything in front of us that what we're", "start": 32437.04, "end": 32443.638}, {"text": "going to do is go back to a very enforcement based model that we had before right so we're going to say okay", "start": 32443.638, "end": 32449.2}, {"text": "let's rewind the the clock back to a time when the prevailing public sentiment was that people were being", "start": 32449.2, "end": 32456.44}, {"text": "chased from park to park people called it moving them but they were being chased from park to", "start": 32456.44, "end": 32461.798}, {"text": "park and and since that time we've seen many studies come out saying that doing that activity actually doing the", "start": 32461.798, "end": 32468.36}, {"text": "activity of chasing homeless people around the city is harmful and for some people leads to their death so that's", "start": 32468.36, "end": 32474.6}, {"text": "where I think about this is not as easy as saying you either support encampments and park or you don't support", "start": 32474.6, "end": 32480.16}, {"text": "encampments and Parks because that elides the human beings in the Parks it's not about encampments it's about", "start": 32480.16, "end": 32486.2}, {"text": "people and about whether or not they have a right to live somewhere they have a right to exist as far as I'm concerned", "start": 32486.2, "end": 32492.16}, {"text": "and the way this is going and the way this is headed especially when we having nothing in front of us suggests that we", "start": 32492.16, "end": 32498.28}, {"text": "don't think that as a council they have a right to exist in situations where we don't have adequate and safe housing we", "start": 32498.28, "end": 32504.238}, {"text": "don't have adequate and safe shelter for people and staff have told us that add nauseum everyone in this room knows that", "start": 32504.238, "end": 32509.92}, {"text": "we don't have those things and knowing that means the decision we're making is putting people Harm's Way I'm not going", "start": 32509.92, "end": 32516.12}, {"text": "to support that to this point about a good faith discussion about sunsetting the encampment protocol I'm going to", "start": 32516.12, "end": 32521.76}, {"text": "read the last part of the motion which I think if we'd stuck to this motion I could have supported that because I voted in favor of it councilor spat", "start": 32521.76, "end": 32528.238}, {"text": "for's motion is not that motion it says that we'd Sunset the current encamp protocol to ensure that the city is in", "start": 32528.238, "end": 32534.318}, {"text": "compliance with the charter and current case law and that staff be directed to report back in q1 2025 let them do it", "start": 32534.318, "end": 32540.238}, {"text": "then we don't need this motion staff we already going to report back on the situation we have these decisions in case law now and there's no problem at", "start": 32540.238, "end": 32546.92}, {"text": "all with staff giving us that report and us making a decision want to put the cart before the horse and now resend the protocol before having the the stuff in", "start": 32546.92, "end": 32553.798}, {"text": "front of us I can't support that doesn't make any sense staff already had direction from us on this exact topic", "start": 32553.798, "end": 32560.2}, {"text": "all this is to me is politics this is not about anything to do with us standing together trying to solve this", "start": 32560.2, "end": 32565.44}, {"text": "problem this motion already let us do that it's in black and white so that's", "start": 32565.44, "end": 32571.6}, {"text": "where I stand on the subject I won't be rep in this okay thank you and remember", "start": 32571.6, "end": 32577.2}, {"text": "please be respectful of everyone who's speaking thank you I understand that but", "start": 32577.2, "end": 32584.04}, {"text": "you didn't have the floor at the time thank you okay so we're going to now go", "start": 32584.04, "end": 32589.2}, {"text": "to uh Council mck me thanks Deputy Mayor", "start": 32589.2, "end": 32596.04}, {"text": "I I have a confession to make I I came into this uh this session today U", "start": 32596.04, "end": 32602.798}, {"text": "determined to voting against the motion um I've fallen off my", "start": 32602.798, "end": 32609.08}, {"text": "donkey um on the road to Damascus Biblical reference there for", "start": 32609.08, "end": 32614.92}, {"text": "counselor B um it's been a long and Winding Road in", "start": 32614.92, "end": 32621.08}, {"text": "a very uncomfortable role for all of us but well I shouldn't I don't want to", "start": 32621.08, "end": 32629.318}, {"text": "be Mr Butt however however um we've all", "start": 32629.318, "end": 32634.398}, {"text": "managed in our own way to be seized with this issue we haven't always agreed on the protocol in fact we've had an an", "start": 32634.398, "end": 32641.08}, {"text": "evolution of protocols and uh I want to say that's been good to to be a to be able to do", "start": 32641.08, "end": 32648.6}, {"text": "that and to learn from that and to mature from it and when we heard 60 some odd people come and say what we really", "start": 32648.6, "end": 32655.2}, {"text": "need uh is a uh substantive move to a gated community with protocols that uh", "start": 32655.2, "end": 32661.958}, {"text": "uh better guarantee the safety and uh and the provision of surround services", "start": 32661.958, "end": 32667.2}, {"text": "that are needed um that was uh where I've been for a long time started a", "start": 32667.2, "end": 32672.6}, {"text": "while back with the whole hats initiative you know they've been ready to go with something like this for a", "start": 32672.6, "end": 32678}, {"text": "long time anyhow um so we've been doing what we can frankly with the tools that", "start": 32678, "end": 32684.958}, {"text": "we have uh which aren't as extensive as some governments have and um that's", "start": 32684.958, "end": 32692.44}, {"text": "something that we need to continue to uh wrestle with and I'm convinced uh Deputy", "start": 32692.44, "end": 32698.958}, {"text": "Mayor that that around this horseshoe we will continue we will continue to", "start": 32698.958, "end": 32704.478}, {"text": "wrestle with this um and I want to say this isn't just", "start": 32704.478, "end": 32710.878}, {"text": "about simply about ending uh the protocols in in", "start": 32710.878, "end": 32717.556}, {"text": "Parks as important as that is and the safety around that it's about serving", "start": 32718.638, "end": 32724.08}, {"text": "with Integrity all those who for whatever reason or combination of reasons find", "start": 32724.08, "end": 32730.238}, {"text": "themselves in a tough spot and uh I'm willing to travel down", "start": 32730.238, "end": 32736.6}, {"text": "the road trusting the process um I'm optimistic that uh that", "start": 32736.6, "end": 32742.68}, {"text": "we're U we cleared some of the speed bumps speed bumps are popular our city", "start": 32742.68, "end": 32748.318}, {"text": "right and that we're speeding a little bit more quickly towards some uh", "start": 32748.318, "end": 32754.2}, {"text": "better Solutions um since I've just brought up the car reference I think we'll be okay", "start": 32754.2, "end": 32760.92}, {"text": "is as we go into the night as long as we keep our lights on thanks very", "start": 32760.92, "end": 32767.16}, {"text": "much thank you councelor mcmein counselor M", "start": 32767.16, "end": 32773.32}, {"text": "Wilson thank you chair uh let me um just say publicly um Express on behalf of", "start": 32773.32, "end": 32779.36}, {"text": "this Council great great deal of gratitude to celest Shields and the", "start": 32779.36, "end": 32785.04}, {"text": "legal team uh for their practice and performance and upholding of the corporation and the Public's interest", "start": 32785.04, "end": 32791.558}, {"text": "here here um I just wanted to this is a", "start": 32791.558, "end": 32796.878}, {"text": "question of moving forward and so in terms of understanding what to expect", "start": 32796.878, "end": 32802.398}, {"text": "from staff through the chair to GM Mater will the report back uh be will it", "start": 32802.398, "end": 32810.68}, {"text": "tell us how um your work is going to be prioritized in terms of uh existing", "start": 32810.68, "end": 32819.558}, {"text": "encampments through the chair uh through the chair to councelor Wilson yes absolutely I think um as I indicated", "start": 32819.558, "end": 32826.278}, {"text": "earlier too though we also know that we've had previous Direction and priorities already laid out for us and", "start": 32826.278, "end": 32831.48}, {"text": "that we would adhere to those as well I think I'd also like just take the opportunity now that part of the op part", "start": 32831.48, "end": 32837.078}, {"text": "of the report back is will also be about this will take some time that as we roll", "start": 32837.078, "end": 32842.718}, {"text": "This Out that it will be important for for Council and the community to", "start": 32842.718, "end": 32848.238}, {"text": "understand that there will be a process that will go through that March 2nd there will not be everyone gone from", "start": 32848.238, "end": 32855.52}, {"text": "Parks um when they wake up and that you know it is important that we manage those expectations as we move along so", "start": 32855.52, "end": 32862.122}, {"text": "we will be working with part of a part of our plan we'll also be out Communications about how we are going to", "start": 32862.122, "end": 32868.238}, {"text": "ensure that that message gets out and what is necessary for it to be included as we move forward with", "start": 32868.238, "end": 32876.398}, {"text": "it thank you and so um in terms of those already previous uh", "start": 32876.52, "end": 32882.96}, {"text": "commitments uh that would include our commitment to the 1 kilometer radius", "start": 32882.96, "end": 32889.078}, {"text": "around the outdoor shelter spot to ensure that there are no", "start": 32889.078, "end": 32895.48}, {"text": "encampments through the chair that is correct it's very important that we manage those expectations and and the uh", "start": 32895.48, "end": 32902}, {"text": "intensity of uh around those locations we want to ensure that there is not an", "start": 32902, "end": 32907.64}, {"text": "overabundance of stress on any one area and that we're um living up to that", "start": 32907.64, "end": 32913.278}, {"text": "commitment that we made when those decisions were made thank you I appreciate that and uh", "start": 32913.278, "end": 32920.04}, {"text": "just so that I'm I'm clear because the numbers were said really quickly and I think it's an important part of this uh", "start": 32920.04, "end": 32926.2}, {"text": "narrative if I could through the chair to director bear just to clarify the", "start": 32926.2, "end": 32932.598}, {"text": "number of of shelter beds that this Council in totality has um invested in", "start": 32932.598, "end": 32937.68}, {"text": "you said 410 permanent shelter beds um we have now", "start": 32937.68, "end": 32943}, {"text": "178 temporary beds of the", "start": 32943, "end": 32948.122}, {"text": "192 I'll ask you to clarify that we have 40 beds for Asylum Seekers we will soon", "start": 32948.122, "end": 32954.438}, {"text": "have 80 outdoor shelter beds and we have 208 beds in the Overflow hotel room", "start": 32954.438, "end": 32961.52}, {"text": "systems which are family beds if I could just see clarification once more on the public record for those numbers thank", "start": 32961.52, "end": 32967.52}, {"text": "you through the chair yes confirming counselor those those numbers are", "start": 32967.52, "end": 32972.68}, {"text": "correct I'm just going to clarify on the temporary beds because I think that's the confusing one a bit yeah there are", "start": 32972.68, "end": 32978.398}, {"text": "178 temporary shelter beds that are open right now 138 of those are the ones that", "start": 32978.398, "end": 32984.438}, {"text": "Council just recently approved that's the 138 out of 192 in addition 40 of", "start": 32984.438, "end": 32990.758}, {"text": "those beds are for Asylum Seekers thank you I I appreciate that Clarity", "start": 32990.758, "end": 32996.84}, {"text": "and um I think that investment is uh critically important for us to underscore thank", "start": 32996.84, "end": 33004.8}, {"text": "you thanks councelor Wilson at this time I think what we're going to do is we're", "start": 33005.52, "end": 33011.32}, {"text": "actually going to take a look at an electronic vote for the resending of the city of Hamilton", "start": 33011.32, "end": 33017.96}, {"text": "encampment protocol as amended by counselor spatap for and seconded by coun coun Tom Jackson at this point", "start": 33017.96, "end": 33026.64}, {"text": "let's have the electronic", "start": 33026.64, "end": 33029.718}, {"text": "vote and that vote carries 13-2 thank", "start": 33040.32, "end": 33045.758}, {"text": "you at this point now we'll receive the correspondence on item", "start": 33045.758, "end": 33051.238}, {"text": "9.2 correspondence respect ing item 9.2 resending of City Hamilton encampment", "start": 33051.238, "end": 33058.558}, {"text": "protocol may I please have a mover and a seconder to receive the correspondence on item 9.2 councelor mcmein councelor", "start": 33058.558, "end": 33066.52}, {"text": "Bey thank you uh we'll vote by show of hands all in", "start": 33066.52, "end": 33072.122}, {"text": "favor thank you unanimous", "start": 33072.122, "end": 33078.558}, {"text": "9.3 by local and Canadian first procurement policy councelor Francis would you like to introduce your motion", "start": 33078.558, "end": 33085.04}, {"text": "and do you have a second yes I do it's uh councelor Jeff Bey uh whereas we have local and", "start": 33085.04, "end": 33091.878}, {"text": "Canadian businesses who can provide the necessary materials and services for the city of Hamilton whereas we are experiencing worsening economic", "start": 33091.878, "end": 33098.32}, {"text": "conditions and threats of us tariffs and should be supporting local and Canadian businesses and union jobs Canadian", "start": 33098.32, "end": 33104.758}, {"text": "whereas Canadian products are superior in quality and safety to International products and comply with local", "start": 33104.758, "end": 33109.96}, {"text": "regulations therefore be it resolved that staff be director report back to the audit finance and administration", "start": 33109.96, "end": 33115.598}, {"text": "committee on the feasibility of having procurement adopted by local and Canadian first approach before making purchases for the city of", "start": 33115.598, "end": 33122.558}, {"text": "Hamilton and for those who remember our last council meeting in December I brought this as a notice of motion and", "start": 33122.558, "end": 33128.558}, {"text": "um recently moved it to uh General issues committee because I thought it would be an appropriate committee to", "start": 33128.558, "end": 33134.078}, {"text": "have a fome debate on this recent serious matter with the micro shelters I", "start": 33134.078, "end": 33140.04}, {"text": "understand that councelor Dano is going to refer this immediately um to speak on it briefly I received an", "start": 33140.04, "end": 33146.68}, {"text": "email from City staff in relation to these micro to these micr shelters after", "start": 33146.68, "end": 33151.84}, {"text": "receiving numerous concerns from residents back in early December I look forward to Flushing out more", "start": 33151.84, "end": 33157.122}, {"text": "transparency on the situation for residents and improving our procurement policies to support local labor local", "start": 33157.122, "end": 33163.48}, {"text": "jobs local businesses especially at the time that they need it most thank you thank you counselor is there any", "start": 33163.48, "end": 33171.36}, {"text": "discussion on this motion okay I", "start": 33171.36, "end": 33175.878}, {"text": "see I know I I'm just waiting okay so councelor Dano you are the first on the", "start": 33179.04, "end": 33185.32}, {"text": "list I'm sorry that's what my list says I saw your hand first", "start": 33185.32, "end": 33191.48}, {"text": "though thank you chair I'm going to refer this item to the procurement", "start": 33191.48, "end": 33196.718}, {"text": "subcommittee as a chair of the procurement subcommittee I think this is the more appropriate venue to have a a", "start": 33196.718, "end": 33203.238}, {"text": "fullsome discussion on this issue with the uh appropriate staff available um", "start": 33203.238, "end": 33209.438}, {"text": "and I believe our next meeting is scheduled in March", "start": 33209.438, "end": 33214.558}, {"text": "sometime seconded by councelor Alex", "start": 33215.36, "end": 33219.718}, {"text": "Wilson okay so discussion on the referral", "start": 33220.64, "end": 33227.48}, {"text": "okay pardon just on the instructions thank you Counselor Clark", "start": 33227.48, "end": 33235.04}, {"text": "oh I'll shut my there we go so um can I just get quick clarification", "start": 33239.04, "end": 33246.52}, {"text": "from the clerks deferral referral which one is debatable because so far today", "start": 33246.52, "end": 33251.918}, {"text": "both have not been debatable neither are debatable through you chair", "start": 33251.918, "end": 33257.04}, {"text": "interesting okay so um I would like added to the instructions that there are", "start": 33257.04, "end": 33265.238}, {"text": "several free trade agreements that the city of Hamilton is", "start": 33265.238, "end": 33271.64}, {"text": "required to comply with and I think it would be important that that", "start": 33271.64, "end": 33278.96}, {"text": "subcommittee get briefed on those trade agreements including the most recent one which was the European trade agreement", "start": 33278.96, "end": 33286.16}, {"text": "um they put pretty clear restrictions on any jurisdiction that is restricting", "start": 33286.16, "end": 33294.718}, {"text": "trade to local trade only so we need to have that information um so that it can be", "start": 33294.718, "end": 33301.598}, {"text": "considered that would be my request under instructions thank", "start": 33301.598, "end": 33307.36}, {"text": "you thank you councel uh clerk do we need any action on that clerk on the", "start": 33307.36, "end": 33314.64}, {"text": "request I just suggest that uh you confirm whether that's uh friendly to the Mover and seconder those", "start": 33314.64, "end": 33320.878}, {"text": "instructions", "start": 33320.878, "end": 33323.878}, {"text": "I think there are several complex issues with h by Canadian not the least of which is the incoming US president and", "start": 33327.558, "end": 33334.718}, {"text": "tariffs uh so I I do definitely take that as a friendly Amendment it'll be a uh an interesting", "start": 33334.718, "end": 33342.122}, {"text": "discussion okay thank you councelor Wilson no uh thank you I", "start": 33342.122, "end": 33348.64}, {"text": "just strongly support uh putting this at procurement I put 12 questions in um to", "start": 33348.64, "end": 33354.48}, {"text": "ensure that we are fully aware of the intended and unint uned possible consequences of this to our own local um", "start": 33354.48, "end": 33362.238}, {"text": "business community and the Ripple effects of similar motions being um uh", "start": 33362.238, "end": 33368.122}, {"text": "had elsewhere thank you okay thank you councelor", "start": 33368.122, "end": 33373.64}, {"text": "Bey thank you chair and through you um as the second of the motion uh", "start": 33373.64, "end": 33379.16}, {"text": "disappointed that I didn't push my button fast enough to be able to speak uh before the referral motion was made", "start": 33379.16, "end": 33387.558}, {"text": "um with the instructions uh equally concerned in terms of the timeline uh", "start": 33387.558, "end": 33393.68}, {"text": "pushing this to begin the conversation in March instead of beginning the conversation now particularly given the", "start": 33393.68, "end": 33400.84}, {"text": "changing climate of um international relations uh I think it is more timely", "start": 33400.84, "end": 33407.558}, {"text": "to move more quickly and I do feel that this is going to end up coming back to GIC and anyways I'm not going to support", "start": 33407.558, "end": 33415.718}, {"text": "the uh deferral motion referral thank", "start": 33415.718, "end": 33422.758}, {"text": "you and uh duly noted about going to the seconder first thank", "start": 33422.758, "end": 33429.64}, {"text": "you councelor Jackson thanks uh Deputy Mayor tedison", "start": 33429.758, "end": 33435.758}, {"text": "um I want to thank counc Francis andb for bringing forward a very timely Motion in light of everything that's", "start": 33435.758, "end": 33442.278}, {"text": "happening with within local National and uh North American markets and the politics of it all um I just want to say", "start": 33442.278, "end": 33450.8}, {"text": "I hope with the referral I hope it just won't end up being uh a buried", "start": 33450.8, "end": 33458.68}, {"text": "exercise between procurement and legal that will basically say there's really", "start": 33458.68, "end": 33464.16}, {"text": "nothing we can do uh consequences uh when it comes Sor for you chair I just want to redirect I", "start": 33464.16, "end": 33471.238}, {"text": "don't mean to interrupt only that this needs to be specific to debating instruction and not comment on chair", "start": 33471.238, "end": 33478.078}, {"text": "thank you clerk okay I hope to the instructions of", "start": 33478.078, "end": 33483.238}, {"text": "the thank you city clerk trenum I hope to the instructions of the referral that", "start": 33483.238, "end": 33488.8}, {"text": "it goes to a governance or procurement subcommittees that it won't just be an exercise where the matter can be buried", "start": 33488.8, "end": 33495.598}, {"text": "because of legal and procurement uh issues and and factors thank you Deputy Mayor tson little attitude there", "start": 33495.598, "end": 33502.32}, {"text": "counselor thank you um any other speakers not seeing any so we're voting", "start": 33502.32, "end": 33508.2}, {"text": "on the referral at this time and it will require anot electronic", "start": 33508.2, "end": 33514.84}, {"text": "vote Yes okay we'll do an electronic", "start": 33514.84, "end": 33520.398}, {"text": "vote is this for refer uh what are we voting on I'm sorry I'm sorry we're", "start": 33525.122, "end": 33530.8}, {"text": "voting on the referral referral of the motion okay right it's going to go to the subcommittee okay thank", "start": 33530.8, "end": 33539.598}, {"text": "you that carries 10 to four so it shall be", "start": 33552.718, "end": 33557.8}, {"text": "referred and we will move on to the next notice of motion uh so it's notices of", "start": 33557.8, "end": 33565.72}, {"text": "motion now 10.1 suitable site for a Hamilton Alliance for tiny shelters uh that's a hats Community", "start": 33565.72, "end": 33572.4}, {"text": "councelor mcmein would you like to read your notice of motion you know Deputy Mayor thank you", "start": 33572.4, "end": 33579.16}, {"text": "for that invitation I'm not going to read it it's rather lengthy I think everybody's seen it um I would", "start": 33579.16, "end": 33584.64}, {"text": "appreciate it uh uh profoundly if everybody would take some time to read it I think I think the motion when it's", "start": 33584.64, "end": 33590.96}, {"text": "discussed on the 5th of Fe February we're going to hold it off leave it as a notice uh we'll be we'll be timely and", "start": 33590.96, "end": 33598}, {"text": "an opportunity for us to build on some of the things we we've done today thank you thank you councelor", "start": 33598, "end": 33605.48}, {"text": "mcmein now uh the next notice of motion 10.2 realignment of taxpayer funding to", "start": 33605.48, "end": 33612}, {"text": "good faith encampment support organizations councelor Dano would you like to read your notice of motion thank", "start": 33612, "end": 33618.04}, {"text": "you chair yes I am going to read it into the record as a in light of today's discussion and 13-2 vote I think it's uh", "start": 33618.04, "end": 33626.276}, {"text": "it's of the public interest um whereas the city of Hamilton relies on many local social agencies harm reduction", "start": 33626.276, "end": 33632.596}, {"text": "homelessness and encampment organizations that provide various levels of support to vulnerable populations throughout the city whereas", "start": 33632.596, "end": 33640.08}, {"text": "in 2024 the city of Hamilton invested a total of $186 million towards housing", "start": 33640.08, "end": 33646.32}, {"text": "and homelessness 125 million funded by Municipal taxpayers which is equivalent", "start": 33646.32, "end": 33651.68}, {"text": "to approximately $215 per resident per year whereas on December 23rd 2024", "start": 33651.68, "end": 33658.32}, {"text": "anterior Superior Court Justice James Ramsey issued a ruling dismissing the claim of 14 homeless applicants that the", "start": 33658.32, "end": 33665.32}, {"text": "city of Hamilton breached their right under the charter to life liberty and security of the person section 7 and to", "start": 33665.32, "end": 33671.756}, {"text": "equal benefit under the law uh section 15 whereas paragraph four of justice", "start": 33671.756, "end": 33678.52}, {"text": "justice Ramsay's ruling States quote I observe that the most vulnerable includes not only the homeless but also", "start": 33678.52, "end": 33685.04}, {"text": "the elderly person and the child who want to use a sidewalk or a city park without tiptoeing through used needles", "start": 33685.04, "end": 33691.276}, {"text": "and human feces end quote whereas paragraph 24 of Justice Ramsey's ruling", "start": 33691.276, "end": 33697.52}, {"text": "States quote many of the affidavits of the applicants contained boilerplate", "start": 33697.52, "end": 33702.64}, {"text": "parts were obviously drafted by lawyers end quote whereas paragraph 61 of", "start": 33702.64, "end": 33708.56}, {"text": "Justice Ramsay's ruling States quote there is a developing false narrative narrative that encampments are a safe", "start": 33708.56, "end": 33714.12}, {"text": "alternative form of housing that narrative appears in the affidavits of some of the applicants Witnesses from", "start": 33714.12, "end": 33720.24}, {"text": "talking to her which is expert witness Dr kivu patients it appears that it has", "start": 33720.24, "end": 33725.596}, {"text": "been a factor in the decision uh to leave safer environments end quote", "start": 33725.596, "end": 33731.84}, {"text": "whereas paragraph 64 of Justice Ramsay's ruling States quote Dr K's concern about", "start": 33731.84, "end": 33737.72}, {"text": "the false narrative encouraging people to leave safer Al safer Alternatives is supported by the evidence a member of", "start": 33737.72, "end": 33744.72}, {"text": "the Outreach team who has observed organized groups encouraging encampment residents to resist options other than", "start": 33744.72, "end": 33750.84}, {"text": "encampments end quote whereas residents have reported observing instances where", "start": 33750.84, "end": 33756.32}, {"text": "homeless individuals have received organized assistance to set up relocate and provision encampments in city parks", "start": 33756.32, "end": 33763.52}, {"text": "whereas limited taxpayer resources should be PRI prioritized to fund organizations that have a proven", "start": 33763.52, "end": 33770.56}, {"text": "goodfaith Community Partners that are working collaborative collaboratively with the city of Hamilton in alignment", "start": 33770.56, "end": 33777.04}, {"text": "with the interests of the city residents and the well-being of homeless individuals therefore be it resolved a", "start": 33777.04, "end": 33783.48}, {"text": "that housing services staff be directed to identify and itemize all city funding allocated to homelessness support social", "start": 33783.48, "end": 33790.04}, {"text": "agencies harm reduction legal advice and encampment Outreach organizations and B", "start": 33790.04, "end": 33795.96}, {"text": "the housing services staff propose opportunities to realign city funding limited to organizations that are proven", "start": 33795.96, "end": 33802.56}, {"text": "good Faith Community Partners committed to collaboratively working with the city of Hamilton in alignment with the city", "start": 33802.56, "end": 33808.276}, {"text": "council interests approved bylaws and policies thank you thank you councelor", "start": 33808.276, "end": 33814.84}, {"text": "Dano we're now are there any other notices of motion not seeing any now we're going to", "start": 33814.84, "end": 33822.596}, {"text": "11 of the agenda private and confidential may I please have a mover and seconder to adopt the confidential", "start": 33822.596, "end": 33829.276}, {"text": "minutes and that they remain confidential councelor casar councelor mcmein show of", "start": 33829.276, "end": 33835.8}, {"text": "hands please thank you unanimous that vote was carried before", "start": 33835.8, "end": 33843.4}, {"text": "we go into Clos session I'll need a moover in a seconder on the following that Bryson tan and Andy Potter of deot", "start": 33843.4, "end": 33849.24}, {"text": "deoe be permitted to attend the Clos session portion of the general issues committee meeting respecting items 11.2", "start": 33849.24, "end": 33856.36}, {"text": "and 11.3 we will require an electronic vote on this please indicate your vote", "start": 33856.36, "end": 33862.756}, {"text": "as it comes up I just need a move in second counselor", "start": 33862.756, "end": 33868.4}, {"text": "yes I'm following the directions from our", "start": 33868.4, "end": 33874.64}, {"text": "protocol so sorry through the deputy I need to move on a second or first and move and second okay so didn't", "start": 33874.64, "end": 33882.4}, {"text": "I do casar and mcmein thank you okay", "start": 33882.4, "end": 33888.72}, {"text": "sorry I got you again yes same same too thank you and we'll have that electronic", "start": 33890.36, "end": 33899.04}, {"text": "vote I see a thumbs up from counselor", "start": 33910, "end": 33915.436}, {"text": "Paul's okay that carries 14 to zero", "start": 33915.436, "end": 33921.084}, {"text": "so motion to go into closed before we go into Clos sessions", "start": 33922.4, "end": 33927.88}, {"text": "nope we have that so uh may I please have a mover and seconder through the deputy mayor this is for items 9.2 11.2", "start": 33927.88, "end": 33935.2}, {"text": "11.3 and 11.4 no I apologize not 9.2 112 113 and 114 yes so we'll now need a", "start": 33935.2, "end": 33942.596}, {"text": "motion to go into close sessions for 112 113 and 114 counselor Bey and the mayor thank", "start": 33942.596, "end": 33949.68}, {"text": "you for thank you for raising your hands", "start": 33949.68, "end": 33955.592}, {"text": "okay is that electronic Vote or raising your hand can the sorry through the", "start": 33957.16, "end": 33962.64}, {"text": "deputy mayor uh we'll do the electronic vote but I'll also need you to read out the reasons", "start": 33962.64, "end": 33969.88}, {"text": "okay as of right now pursuant to 9.3 subsections a FJ and K of the city's", "start": 33969.88, "end": 33976.32}, {"text": "procedure bylaw 21-21 as amended and section 2392 subsections afj and K of the Ontario", "start": 33976.32, "end": 33984.8}, {"text": "municipals act 2001 as amended as the subject matter pertains to the security of the property of the city or a local", "start": 33984.8, "end": 33992.436}, {"text": "board advice that is subject to solit Sol solicitor client privilege including", "start": 33992.436, "end": 33997.596}, {"text": "Communications necessary for that purpose a trade secret or scientific technical commercial or financial information that belongs to the city or", "start": 33997.596, "end": 34005.52}, {"text": "a local board and has monetary value or potential monetary value and a position plan procedure criteria or instruction", "start": 34005.52, "end": 34012.56}, {"text": "to be applied to any negotiations carried on or to be carried on by or on", "start": 34012.56, "end": 34017.88}, {"text": "behalf of the city or a local board here now we require the electronic", "start": 34017.88, "end": 34023.84}, {"text": "vote thank you and it's up", "start": 34023.84, "end": 34029.2}, {"text": "and okay St up from councelor casar okay it's that vote carries 13 to", "start": 34031.04, "end": 34038.64}, {"text": "zero thank you", "start": 34038.64, "end": 34042.88}, {"text": "members of the public are advised that during the Clos session portion of the meeting the live stream will broadcast a", "start": 34045.88, "end": 34051.68}, {"text": "closed session in progress screen the broadcast will resume the when the closed session portion of the meeting is", "start": 34051.68, "end": 34057.916}, {"text": "complete as we are now moving into a close session I would ask all members of the public delegates and external", "start": 34057.916, "end": 34063.08}, {"text": "participants to please now exit the WebEx meeting as well any staff that are not directly related to the in camera", "start": 34063.08, "end": 34069.436}, {"text": "items are also now asked please exit the WebEx meeting I also remind members of", "start": 34069.436, "end": 34074.88}, {"text": "the council that as per section 8.7 of the procedural bylaw the use of personal electronic devices during closed", "start": 34074.88, "end": 34081.64}, {"text": "meetings is strictly prohibited however the use of City electronic devices during closed meetings are limited to", "start": 34081.64, "end": 34087.916}, {"text": "text Communications only with the city's electronic devices not being used as a telephone recording device or camera", "start": 34087.916, "end": 34094.916}, {"text": "staff from the office of the city clerk are Exempted from subsections 8.7 C when using electronic devices for record", "start": 34094.916, "end": 34101.84}, {"text": "keeping", "start": 34101.84, "end": 34104.04}, {"text": "purposes we will take a few moments and then we'll go into", "start": 34107.4, "end": 34113.04}, {"text": "closed", "start": 34131.04, "end": 34134.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 34161.04, "end": 34164.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 34190.96, "end": 34193.96}, {"text": "e", "start": 34220.916, "end": 34223.916}, {"text": "e", "start": 34250.916, "end": 34253.916}, {"text": "e", "start": 34280.84, "end": 34283.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 34310.84, "end": 34313.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 34340.84, "end": 34343.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 34370.756, "end": 34373.756}, {"text": "e", "start": 34400.72, "end": 34403.72}, {"text": "e", "start": 34430.72, "end": 34433.72}, {"text": "e", "start": 34460.64, "end": 34463.64}, {"text": "e", "start": 34490.64, "end": 34493.64}, {"text": "e", "start": 34520.596, "end": 34523.596}, {"text": "e", "start": 34550.56, "end": 34553.56}, {"text": "e", "start": 34580.52, "end": 34583.52}, {"text": "e", "start": 34610.52, "end": 34613.52}, {"text": "e", "start": 34640.436, "end": 34643.436}, {"text": "e", "start": 34670.436, "end": 34673.436}, {"text": "e", "start": 34700.436, "end": 34703.436}, {"text": "e", "start": 34730.32, "end": 34733.32}, {"text": "e", "start": 34760.32, "end": 34763.32}, {"text": "e", "start": 34790.32, "end": 34793.32}, {"text": "e", "start": 34820.24, "end": 34823.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 34850.24, "end": 34853.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 34880.24, "end": 34883.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 34910.16, "end": 34913.16}, {"text": "e", "start": 34940.116, "end": 34943.116}, {"text": "e", "start": 34970.116, "end": 34973.116}, {"text": "e", "start": 35000.04, "end": 35003.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 35030.04, "end": 35033.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 35060.04, "end": 35063.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 35089.916, "end": 35092.916}, {"text": "e", "start": 35119.916, "end": 35122.916}, {"text": "e", "start": 35149.916, "end": 35152.916}, {"text": "e", "start": 35179.84, "end": 35182.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 35209.84, "end": 35212.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 35239.84, "end": 35242.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 35269.756, "end": 35272.756}, {"text": "e", "start": 35299.72, "end": 35302.72}, {"text": "e", "start": 35329.72, "end": 35332.72}, {"text": "e", "start": 35359.64, "end": 35362.64}, {"text": "e", "start": 35389.64, "end": 35392.64}, {"text": "e", "start": 35419.64, "end": 35422.64}, {"text": "e", "start": 35449.52, "end": 35452.52}, {"text": "e", "start": 35479.52, "end": 35482.52}, {"text": "e", "start": 35509.52, "end": 35512.52}, {"text": "e", "start": 35539.436, "end": 35542.436}, {"text": "e", "start": 35569.436, "end": 35572.436}, {"text": "e", "start": 35599.436, "end": 35602.436}, {"text": "e", "start": 35629.36, "end": 35632.36}, {"text": "e", "start": 35659.32, "end": 35662.32}, {"text": "e", "start": 35689.32, "end": 35692.32}, {"text": "e", "start": 35719.24, "end": 35722.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 35749.24, "end": 35752.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 35779.24, "end": 35782.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 35809.116, "end": 35812.116}, {"text": "e", "start": 35839.116, "end": 35842.116}, {"text": "e", "start": 35869.116, "end": 35872.116}, {"text": "e", "start": 35899.04, "end": 35902.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 35929.04, "end": 35932.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 35959.04, "end": 35962.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 35988.96, "end": 35991.96}, {"text": "e", "start": 36018.916, "end": 36021.916}, {"text": "e", "start": 36048.916, "end": 36051.916}, {"text": "e", "start": 36078.84, "end": 36081.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 36108.84, "end": 36111.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 36138.84, "end": 36141.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 36168.72, "end": 36171.72}, {"text": "e", "start": 36198.72, "end": 36201.72}, {"text": "e", "start": 36228.72, "end": 36231.72}, {"text": "e", "start": 36258.64, "end": 36261.64}, {"text": "e", "start": 36288.64, "end": 36291.64}, {"text": "e", "start": 36318.64, "end": 36321.64}, {"text": "e", "start": 36348.56, "end": 36351.56}, {"text": "e", "start": 36378.52, "end": 36381.52}, {"text": "e", "start": 36408.52, "end": 36411.52}, {"text": "e", "start": 36438.436, "end": 36441.436}, {"text": "e", "start": 36468.436, "end": 36471.436}, {"text": "e", "start": 36498.436, "end": 36501.436}, {"text": "e", "start": 36528.32, "end": 36531.32}, {"text": "e", "start": 36558.32, "end": 36561.32}, {"text": "e", "start": 36588.32, "end": 36591.32}, {"text": "e", "start": 36618.24, "end": 36621.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 36648.24, "end": 36651.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 36678.24, "end": 36681.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 36708.16, "end": 36711.16}, {"text": "e", "start": 36738.116, "end": 36741.116}, {"text": "e", "start": 36768.116, "end": 36771.116}, {"text": "e", "start": 36798.04, "end": 36801.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 36828.04, "end": 36831.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 36858.04, "end": 36861.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 36887.96, "end": 36890.96}, {"text": "e", "start": 36917.916, "end": 36920.916}, {"text": "e", "start": 36947.916, "end": 36950.916}, {"text": "e", "start": 36977.84, "end": 36980.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 37007.84, "end": 37010.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 37037.84, "end": 37040.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 37067.756, "end": 37070.756}, {"text": "e", "start": 37097.72, "end": 37100.72}, {"text": "e", "start": 37127.72, "end": 37130.72}, {"text": "e", "start": 37157.64, "end": 37160.64}, {"text": "e", "start": 37187.64, "end": 37190.64}, {"text": "e", "start": 37217.64, "end": 37220.64}, {"text": "e", "start": 37247.56, "end": 37250.56}, {"text": "e", "start": 37277.52, "end": 37280.52}, {"text": "e", "start": 37307.52, "end": 37310.52}, {"text": "e", "start": 37337.436, "end": 37340.436}, {"text": "e", "start": 37367.436, "end": 37370.436}, {"text": "e", "start": 37397.436, "end": 37400.436}, {"text": "e", "start": 37427.36, "end": 37430.36}, {"text": "e", "start": 37457.32, "end": 37460.32}, {"text": "e", "start": 37487.32, "end": 37490.32}, {"text": "e", "start": 37517.24, "end": 37520.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 37547.24, "end": 37550.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 37577.24, "end": 37580.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 37607.16, "end": 37610.16}, {"text": "e", "start": 37637.116, "end": 37640.116}, {"text": "e", "start": 37667.116, "end": 37670.116}, {"text": "e", "start": 37697.04, "end": 37700.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 37727.04, "end": 37730.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 37757.04, "end": 37760.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 37786.96, "end": 37789.96}, {"text": "e", "start": 37816.916, "end": 37819.916}, {"text": "e", "start": 37846.916, "end": 37849.916}, {"text": "e", "start": 37876.84, "end": 37879.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 37906.84, "end": 37909.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 37936.84, "end": 37939.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 37966.756, "end": 37969.756}, {"text": "e", "start": 37996.72, "end": 37999.72}, {"text": "e", "start": 38026.72, "end": 38029.72}, {"text": "e", "start": 38056.64, "end": 38059.64}, {"text": "e", "start": 38086.64, "end": 38089.64}, {"text": "e", "start": 38116.64, "end": 38119.64}, {"text": "e", "start": 38146.56, "end": 38149.56}, {"text": "e", "start": 38176.52, "end": 38179.52}, {"text": "e", "start": 38206.52, "end": 38209.52}, {"text": "e", "start": 38236.436, "end": 38239.436}, {"text": "e", "start": 38266.436, "end": 38269.436}, {"text": "e", "start": 38296.4, "end": 38299.4}, {"text": "e", "start": 38326.36, "end": 38329.36}, {"text": "e", "start": 38356.32, "end": 38359.32}, {"text": "e", "start": 38386.32, "end": 38389.32}, {"text": "e", "start": 38416.24, "end": 38419.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 38446.24, "end": 38449.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 38476.24, "end": 38479.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 38506.16, "end": 38509.16}, {"text": "e", "start": 38536.116, "end": 38539.116}, {"text": "e", "start": 38566.116, "end": 38569.116}, {"text": "e", "start": 38596.04, "end": 38599.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 38626.04, "end": 38629.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 38656, "end": 38659}, {"text": "e", "start": 38685.96, "end": 38688.96}, {"text": "e", "start": 38715.916, "end": 38718.916}, {"text": "e", "start": 38745.916, "end": 38748.916}, {"text": "e", "start": 38775.84, "end": 38778.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 38805.84, "end": 38808.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 38835.84, "end": 38838.84}, {"text": "e", "start": 38865.756, "end": 38868.756}, {"text": "e", "start": 38895.72, "end": 38898.72}, {"text": "e", "start": 38925.72, "end": 38928.72}, {"text": "e", "start": 38955.64, "end": 38958.64}, {"text": "e", "start": 38985.64, "end": 38988.64}, {"text": "e", "start": 39015.596, "end": 39018.596}, {"text": "e", "start": 39045.56, "end": 39048.56}, {"text": "e", "start": 39075.52, "end": 39078.52}, {"text": "e", "start": 39105.52, "end": 39108.52}, {"text": "e", "start": 39135.436, "end": 39138.436}, {"text": "e", "start": 39165.436, "end": 39168.436}, {"text": "e", "start": 39195.436, "end": 39198.436}, {"text": "e", "start": 39225.36, "end": 39228.36}, {"text": "e", "start": 39255.32, "end": 39258.32}, {"text": "e", "start": 39285.32, "end": 39288.32}, {"text": "e", "start": 39315.24, "end": 39318.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 39345.24, "end": 39348.24}, {"text": "e", "start": 39375.2, "end": 39378.2}, {"text": "e", "start": 39405.16, "end": 39408.16}, {"text": "e", "start": 39435.116, "end": 39438.116}, {"text": "e", "start": 39465.116, "end": 39468.116}, {"text": "e", "start": 39495.04, "end": 39498.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 39525.04, "end": 39528.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 39555.04, "end": 39558.04}, {"text": "e", "start": 39584.96, "end": 39587.96}, {"text": "e", "start": 39614.916, "end": 39617.916}, {"text": "e", "start": 39644.916, "end": 39647.916}, {"text": "e e", "start": 39674.84, "end": 39678.88}, {"text": "you", "start": 39734.596, "end": 39737.596}, {"text": "this is my understanding so 8 n we're going to do", "start": 39760.596, "end": 39766}, {"text": "it yeah 113 Direction approved remain confidential report be deferred to a", "start": 39766, "end": 39772.52}, {"text": "future G and then 114 is happening you're read", "start": 39772.52, "end": 39778.04}, {"text": "the no concession cor correct yes that's what", "start": 39778.04, "end": 39784.72}, {"text": "that's I'll get a here by", "start": 39784.72, "end": 39790.756}, {"text": "okay I think", "start": 39790.756, "end": 39794.844}, {"text": "oh so I can make okay so we're doing this one t so", "start": 39800.84, "end": 39808.116}, {"text": "no no correct", "start": 39808.116, "end": 39813.72}, {"text": "yeah just referring to yes thank", "start": 39813.72, "end": 39818.4}, {"text": "you e", "start": 39824.72, "end": 39828.72}, {"text": "so just company or something", "start": 39879.72, "end": 39883.88}, {"text": "but you're starting to give me a uh", "start": 39903.436, "end": 39907.564}, {"text": "oh need to crappier", "start": 39909.4, "end": 39914.48}, {"text": "car that that's I I I thought some disparaging remarks about", "start": 39914.48, "end": 39920.68}, {"text": "for no we're", "start": 39920.96, "end": 39924.32}, {"text": "not", "start": 39944.56, "end": 39947.56}, {"text": "e e", "start": 39974.52, "end": 39978.56}, {"text": "now that we are back in Open Session I'd just like to say that we", "start": 40012.64, "end": 40017.72}, {"text": "appreciate deo's availability for items 11.2 and", "start": 40017.72, "end": 40022.756}, {"text": "11.4 however they were not required and did not", "start": 40022.756, "end": 40029.16}, {"text": "participate we're going to 8.9 cm24 z4a cyber incident impact acted Citywide may", "start": 40029.88, "end": 40037.24}, {"text": "I please have a mover and a seconder to put the report on the floor counselor crutch I saw the eyebrows go up and the", "start": 40037.24, "end": 40043.88}, {"text": "fingers go up from counselor casar thank you is there any discussion on the", "start": 40043.88, "end": 40050.156}, {"text": "item 8.9 seeing no discussion we'll require", "start": 40050.2, "end": 40056.24}, {"text": "an electronic vote to approve the recommendations please indicate your vote now M you have to come out of", "start": 40056.24, "end": 40063.916}, {"text": "closed you", "start": 40063.916, "end": 40067.432}, {"text": "now", "start": 40079.52, "end": 40082.52}, {"text": "that carries 10 to one thank you 11.3 cm2", "start": 40098.276, "end": 40105.08}, {"text": "4004b cyber incident impact update Citywide please have a mover and seconder on the following that direction", "start": 40105.08, "end": 40111.916}, {"text": "prior to staff in close session respecting report 20 244b cyber incant impact update be", "start": 40111.916, "end": 40119.52}, {"text": "approved and remain confidential and that report CM 244b cyber an impact update be deferred", "start": 40119.52, "end": 40127.56}, {"text": "to a future GIC may I have a move in a second councelor casar and councelor Wilson thank", "start": 40127.56, "end": 40134.96}, {"text": "you we will require an electronic vote please indicate your vote now", "start": 40137.596, "end": 40146.52}, {"text": "that vote carries 11 to zero thank you um 11.4 CM 25001 cyber security", "start": 40166.8, "end": 40174.68}, {"text": "resilience Citywide may I please have a mover and seconder on the following I", "start": 40174.68, "end": 40179.88}, {"text": "will read it and then we'll get the Mover in the seconder that the following be referred to the mayor for consideration as part of the multi year", "start": 40179.88, "end": 40185.8}, {"text": "tax budget that the inclusion of cyber security domain project Capital costs identified in appendix a attached to", "start": 40185.8, "end": 40191.72}, {"text": "report CM 25001 totaling 13.2 million in the 2025 tax budget and financing plans", "start": 40191.72, "end": 40200.32}, {"text": "item two the incorporation of estimated additional cyber security domain project Capital cost of approximately 3 million", "start": 40200.32, "end": 40207.36}, {"text": "in 2026 as outlined in appendex a attached to report cm 25001 into the multi-year forecast for", "start": 40207.36, "end": 40214.56}, {"text": "inclusion in the appropriate future tax and rate budget processes item three", "start": 40214.56, "end": 40220.116}, {"text": "that the inclusion of this estimated additional operating cost for 2025 of approximately 3.8 million as outlined in", "start": 40220.116, "end": 40227.64}, {"text": "appendex a attached to report cm 25001 in the 2025 tax budget funded", "start": 40227.64, "end": 40234.916}, {"text": "through a combination of Staffing gapping savings Capital financing savings or corporate year end Surplus", "start": 40234.916, "end": 40241.68}, {"text": "the incorporation of estimated total operating costs in including Staffing costs of approximately 4.4 million", "start": 40241.68, "end": 40248.916}, {"text": "that's 3.8 million in 2025 plus .45 million plus .13 million for 2026 and", "start": 40248.916, "end": 40257.52}, {"text": "onward as outlined in appendix a to report cm 25001 into the multi-year forecast and", "start": 40257.52, "end": 40264.48}, {"text": "the appropriate budget process item five the incorporation of 12 F", "start": 40264.48, "end": 40271.4}, {"text": "full-time equivalent positions in the information technology it department for", "start": 40271.4, "end": 40276.436}, {"text": "2025 in accordance with the budgeted complete complement control policy as", "start": 40276.436, "end": 40282.08}, {"text": "outlined in appendix a to report CM 25001 utilizing existing Staffing", "start": 40282.08, "end": 40288.116}, {"text": "vacancies within the organization item six the referral of", "start": 40288.116, "end": 40295.48}, {"text": "the requested change in staff complement of two fds for 2026 and one FTE for 2027", "start": 40295.48, "end": 40302.116}, {"text": "in accordance with the budgeted compliment control policy as outlined in appendix a to report cm 25001 to the", "start": 40302.116, "end": 40310}, {"text": "appropriate tax supported budget now we're moving on to B that the city manager be authorized and directed", "start": 40310, "end": 40316.8}, {"text": "on behalf of council to assume the Authority Under the budgeted complement control policy to offset the additional", "start": 40316.8, "end": 40323.36}, {"text": "12 FTE as outlined in appendix a to report CM 25001 through the re reallocation of", "start": 40323.36, "end": 40330.68}, {"text": "existing FTE within the organization C that the city manager", "start": 40330.68, "end": 40336.88}, {"text": "general manager of finance and corporate services and or Chief Information officer or their assigned delegate be", "start": 40336.88, "end": 40342.96}, {"text": "authorized and directed on behalf of the city of Hamilton to enter into and or execute all necessary agreements and", "start": 40342.96, "end": 40349.08}, {"text": "ancillary documents on terms satisfactory to the above identified individuals and in a form satisfactory", "start": 40349.08, "end": 40355.88}, {"text": "to the city solicitor and D that the report cm 25001 and all appendices", "start": 40355.88, "end": 40362.2}, {"text": "except appendix a attached to report cm 225001 remain confidential may I have a", "start": 40362.2, "end": 40369.04}, {"text": "move in a second thank you councelor casar okay thank you counselor Wilson we", "start": 40369.04, "end": 40375.16}, {"text": "will require an electronic vote please indicate your vote", "start": 40375.16, "end": 40381.56}, {"text": "now uh sorry let's go back um before we vote", "start": 40384.2, "end": 40392.04}, {"text": "does anyone have any comments", "start": 40392.04, "end": 40397.04}, {"text": "thank you can I can I get clarification from Finance so we're doing some offsetting", "start": 40397.08, "end": 40404.276}, {"text": "of FTE that are going to be full-time employees they're not going to be contracted employees and we're", "start": 40404.276, "end": 40411.8}, {"text": "offsetting the costs for the 2025 budget through a variety of of of", "start": 40411.8, "end": 40419.8}, {"text": "tools what happens in 2026 we may not have those tools", "start": 40419.8, "end": 40425.4}, {"text": "available to us to offset them so would they automatically become a part of the budget in 2026 on the", "start": 40425.4, "end": 40432.96}, {"text": "levy through through the deputy mayor the intent is to offset the um Staffing", "start": 40432.96, "end": 40440.916}, {"text": "cost through some gapping savings for 2025 with the intent to find positions", "start": 40440.916, "end": 40449.116}, {"text": "within the organization to restate such that these would not be new positions we would", "start": 40449.116, "end": 40456.04}, {"text": "leverage existing positions and leverage the associated dollars with those positions", "start": 40456.04, "end": 40462.916}, {"text": "so again that's the intent recognizing there'll be some one-year costs that", "start": 40462.916, "end": 40468.52}, {"text": "will be offset through gapping but for 2026 the intent is to find positions and", "start": 40468.52, "end": 40474.8}, {"text": "Associated funding such that it would not be an additional or incremental", "start": 40474.8, "end": 40480.436}, {"text": "cost I only raise this because we have been utilizing Reserves and a lot of", "start": 40480.436, "end": 40486}, {"text": "tools to try to minimize the tax increase but the fact is we are spending", "start": 40486, "end": 40491.596}, {"text": "more money and the fact that we are spending more money means that while we", "start": 40491.596, "end": 40497.32}, {"text": "may not show it on the levy in 2025 in 2026 and out years it will", "start": 40497.32, "end": 40504.2}, {"text": "eventually be a part of the levy because these are expenditures that we are are", "start": 40504.2, "end": 40509.436}, {"text": "making the decision now so the fact that we have found savings this year I", "start": 40509.436, "end": 40515.4}, {"text": "congratulate staff for finding those offsets but the reality is we have", "start": 40515.4, "end": 40521.916}, {"text": "increased spending in these programs and as a result in out years there will be", "start": 40521.916, "end": 40528.68}, {"text": "charges to the levy is that not a fair statement through the deputy mayor", "start": 40528.68, "end": 40534.2}, {"text": "that's correct there there are incremental cost and Investments the the", "start": 40534.2, "end": 40540.16}, {"text": "HR strategy is to try to reduce some of those impacts through finding existing", "start": 40540.16, "end": 40546.756}, {"text": "positions and vacancies as it relates to the Staffing nonetheless there will be some operating impacts in future years", "start": 40546.756, "end": 40554.16}, {"text": "outside of Staffing thank you I just wanted that on the", "start": 40554.16, "end": 40559.32}, {"text": "record thank you Council clerk are there any other comments or", "start": 40559.32, "end": 40566.36}, {"text": "questions seeing none let us go to the electronic vote", "start": 40566.36, "end": 40573.52}, {"text": "that vote was carried 10 to one thank you I now adjourn this meeting at 75 at", "start": 40587.24, "end": 40597.916}, {"text": "754 PM January 15 2025 thank you", "start": 40597.916, "end": 40605.36}, {"text": "you", "start": 40605.36, "end": 40608.36}]