good evening and welcome to the city of Palm Coast city council business meeting today is Tuesday September the 3D 2024 it is 6:01 p.m. and we are in the community wing of city hall with that I would ask you to please rise and uh join me in our Pledge of Allegiance following the pledge you are welcome to remain standing for a moment of silence to reflect meditate pray or pause for a moment to flag of the United States of America and the stand Nation God indivisible andice for all thank you everyone please be seated and if the clerk would call the role please mayor Alin pres vice mayor Dano and uh proceed um the first uh item on our agenda this evening will be proclamations and presentations and I would ask uh my fellow council members if we could could reorder the agenda the commissioner for find the Florida Inland navigation district is here to present a u um uh an offering to the city and uh is on a tight schedule if it's okay with you I'll move that up you bring a check well if you'll wait and see for a minute we'll get there okay um we'll put that up with the presentations if that fits uh your agenda this evening okay so with that I would ask staff to uh please proceed with uh number 10 on your agenda which would be under letter H titled resolutions good afternoon my name is Alyssa Rosco I'm your Solid Waste residential collection supervisor and um today I'm going to tell you a little bit about the 2024 intra Coastal Waterway cleanup um we'll be doing a short presentation today before we speak to uh commissioner Stapleford go over a few items um our mascot for the 2024 right's too far away our mascots are always a huge part of our in coastal Waterway cleanup it is a way to tie in the fun as well as the responsibility and the environmental impact that these events have um we always go out to our community to figure out a name for our mascot um this year we went to the summer camp and commissioner stableford Jo joined James Hurst and I and we pulled the children and to see what type of name they would come up with and this year for our 2024 mascot the soft shell turtle the name was given of pearl oh um all the counselors um I'm sorry all the campers suggested different options um there was Stanley Sheldon Timmy T but Pearl was ultimately our winner so this is Pearl she'll be our mascot this year um our event will be held on the 21st of September that's a couple Saturdays away from now typically this is conducted in conjunction with the international Coastal cleanup day um we target salt water canals the in coastal Waterway and waterways along parks and trails um this helps us expand our awareness for a little literall effort and impact registration is currently open and we'll be meeting here at the community center at 8: a.m. on Saturday the 21st this is the 17th year find has assisted us and get granted given us the grant um totaling 80 $5,000 thus far um we also have sponsorships that were available to other partners in the community of which we did have a couple takers but find remains our biggest um sponsor for this event there are um multiple social media posts that will be going out letting residents know how they can um get involved and interact whether that be fun facts about our Pearl our friend Pearl the soft shell turtle to how they can canoe and kayak on the water to help remove that debris um also we're passing out flyers um to the school board as well as local community groups letting them know that this event is eligible for volunteer hours um there'll be a free lunch and a free t-shirt for participating this year we're also bringing back the community after party so that was something that was a really big push for us this year to make sure that not only are out there is a community being engaged and picking up that debris but also coming back for those Awards and that food and that Community fun and feel so after the event ends at noon we invite you to stay with us at the community center to talk about all of our fun unique fines um as well as you know different ways to be impactful in the community um after that on October 15th we'll revisit Council to go over the event results um did you guys have any questions in regard to this any questions no give you that well this is a privilege I get to do once a year and glad to see the numbers are mounting at 85,000 Randy Stapleford commissioner Florida and L navigational District um so again this is a privilege we get to do to work with the city and to work with all the folks in our community and the naming of the Mask as we just discussed that was awesome to have over at the Palm Coast Community Center with all those young kids making artwork and drawing them out and then coming up with a selection for the uh the mascot so I hope to see everybody in our audience out there if You' like to come up and pick up items from the seashore or from not the seashore but from the inter Coastal Waterway there are Treasures out there to be found and some have been found already and turned in and artifacts that we take care of but uh we want to clean up the city and clean up the Waterway it's so important to our the life in this wonderful City and wonderful County we live in so on behalf of the Florida Inland navigation District it's my privilege to present this check for [Applause] $5,000 thank you Randy our next item of business this evening is the proclamation regarding prostate cancer and I'll go ahead and read that right here from the uh Podium we have a full house I'm sorry from the deis Britney could you ask those that are uh okay very good all right did you want to join them you're fine go ahead whereas prostate cancer is the most commonly diagnosed form of cancer and the second leading cause of cancer related deaths among men and whereas this year approximately 288,000 300 men will be diagnosed with prostate cancer in the United States and roughly 34,700 will die from the disease which is one man every 15 minutes and whereas prostate cancer not only affects men but also deeply affects the families and friends of those who love them and whereas in 1999 the American Foundation of urological diseases declared that each September be designated as National prostate health cancer month to educate men on strategies for prevention detection and diagnosis of this Dreadful disease and whereas as a component of the 2024 national campaign the prostate cancer Foundation encourages men to power up your health by practicing suitable nutrition and exercise strategies to reduce the risk of disease progression now therefore be it proclaimed by the mayor and the city council of the city of Palm Coast Florida that September 2024 be officially designated as prostate cancer awareness month [Applause] Carl would you like to say a word yeah I'll say a few words uh Carl Cody director of ston water engineering I want to thank you mayor and Council for recognizing September as Prostate Cancer Awareness Month uh this is a disease uh that you know needs more awareness out there it is something that impacts a lot of people one in every eight men will be diagnosed with this at some time in their lifetime every man so it is uh the leading cause of death in 49 countries for cancer as well and you know one thing that we do have here tonight we have a pamphlet by the front door it's called things every man should know about prostate cancer you know it's typically affects older G gentlemen and but it's seems to be affecting more and more younger folks and the signs aren't always known to you and knowing what those are and when you hit 40 beginning having that testing done speak with your doctor know what your PSA levels are you know and those annual checkups are are critical even though you feel perfect the signs may be there or not there you know always continue to to get uh have those annual physicals begin your prostate cancer check and learn what you can about prostate cancer just for that awareness because it does affect so many folks thank you thank you Carl anything addition Council one pontier would you like to add a comment I would thank you um thank you Carl for coming up here and um saying those words this is really important that um that we do this and that we we just put this awareness out in our community because there are a lot of people that lose their lives that lose loved ones from this disease I lost my uncle just a few years ago to it um so thank you and thank you Council gentlemen thank you very much so again we will uh yeah come on up we'll acknowledge uh we acknowledge the official Proclamation uh today all right thank [Applause] you next item on the agenda is a uh presentation award presentation from the the Cedar Bridge Foundation go ahead you can clap forward go [Applause] ahead just yes no other way no yeah there you go okay where's Carrie Todd because that's the person we're honoring today where is she [Laughter] okay good evening everyone thank you for having us mayor and council members my name is Maria daring and this is Terry Baker together we co-founded Cedar Bridge Foundation a nonprofit organization committed to enriching the lives of individuals with special needs through advocacy support socialization and programs we're joined tonight by many of our members many who couldn't come it was I think we all I I encountered rain coming here but some of you did come and thank you for coming as well these are outstanding men and women and their families who navigate exceptional needs daily tonight we're decided to honor Carrie Todd from Parks and Recreation Department for her commitment to the special needs Community couple of years ago I met Carrie she started the autism spectrum disorder ASD group at the Palm Coast Community Center which now welcomes many of our members every second and fourth Tuesday of the month as a co-founder or as co-founders of Cedar Bridge foundation and parents of adults with disabilities we know the unique challenges and profound rewards of supporting individuals with exceptional needs it takes a person of immense compassion resilience and vision to truly make a difference Carrie exemplifies all these qualities and more her commitment to empowering those with disabilities and enhancing their lives has been nothing short of inspirational she has not only only raised awareness but she's also fostered a sense of community a sense of inclusion and a sense of empowerment car's work aligns seamlessly with our mission her dedication has helped bridge the gap between challenges and possibilities Paving the way to a more inclusive community her work has shown us all the power of dedication but more importantly the beauty of a community that stands together we would also like to extend a heartfelt thank you to the Palm Coast Parks and Recreation Department for their incredible staff with and their incredible staff for their support their commitment has been instrumental in creating a supportive environment for individuals with special needs now it is my honor and great pleasure to present Carrie Todd with this plaque in recognition of our out of her outstanding service please join us in giving a round of applause to a true champion an extraordinary individual who has made the world a better place thank you [Applause] Carrie together take a picture all right ready one two three smile [Applause] the uh next item on the agenda this evening is a presentation of the Palm Coast 25th anniversary celebration and I just an announcement councilman kuus is joining us virtually and is now connected to the meeting y thank you mayor I had a little difficulty but I think I have everything sorted now thank you all right I wish you the best councilman okay I appreciate that thank you giving the circumstances I appreciate it all right um with that I'll ladies take it away good evening mayor and Council thank you for having us I'm Britney mcdermit the deputy director of Parks and Recreation I'm joined here by jet calano she's our community recreation supervisor in charge of all of our special events in collaboration with several other City departments you may have already seen some of the event promotions that went out from our Communications and marketing department on the city's 25th anniversary celebration Gina is going to take you through a presentation that covers more of the details of that event so I'm going to turn it over to her and I will be available to assist with any questions thank you Britney and good evening Council and everyone here thank you for having us um but yes so as Briny mentioned we are here to talk about this great milestone of our city celebrate our community and uh as Brittney mentioned and collaborate with our marketing and Communications Department the Palm Coast historical society and Rotary Club as well so in honor of our City's growth diversity Community Spirit we really want to uh find a way to bring residents together and honor this this Milestone that we have um reflecting on Palm Coast's unique character um highlighting key moments in Palm Coast history with storytelling and events and um encouraging participation throughout the community with activities and inspiring residents to continue to uh contribute to our growth and highlight those moments that we all truly love and really out um showcase the city of Palm Coast so we're going to start by incorporating 25th anniversary elements into pre-existing events events so we're going to focus on Grassroots marketing bring awareness and celebration throughout the community with different organizations and within the city as well we're planning to have a branded themed display at various events that have already been planned throughout the fall and winter season so really um encompassing that that onsite spirit with um you know again just honoring that that history and highlighting what our great city has has grown grown to to become one of those ways is to call back to what made us fall in love with Palm Coast Golf tennis and boating so again highlight those existing events that we have and you know possibly bring in another one or two that Encompass these items that really made us fall in love with this city we are going to partner with our Palm Coast model boat club to be a part of our big celebration and continue to support our Palm Coast Yacht Club's annual boat parade and as well highlight and be present at our current golf tennis and pickle ball events with our theme displays again bringing awareness to this awesome Milestone and the events that we have one of our Uh current features that we have already in linear Park is a story walk so one way we're going to bring this vision and this this uh this story to life is the month of September we have featured a uh Palm Coast 25th anniversary themed story walk at linear Park which will highlight key moments in history along the path the last piece of that story walk will highlight showcase and invite residents to our big celebration in the Central Park in October with that being said bringing us to celebrate in the park we're going to be hosting a very large Festival style event in Central Park on Saturday October 26th from 4: to 8:00 p.m. in celebration of our 25th anniversary so taking us through the event a little bit more specifically so this is an overview of our basically our event and our site plan so I'll break down each Zone a little bit more specifically this can be a lot I'm sure to to take in all at once but um we are planning to to host an event that is free to the public that will have something for all ages there our different zones break up different interacting interactions and um elements that we want to focus on and again highlight for all different ages so our Zone one is going to welcome guests welcome residents it's going to have information we're going to have our Parks and Recreation there our Historical Society there um and we're going to have photo ops in that section and then that leads to zone two which will take us to our food trucks and tables for seating so we are highlighting first uh Palm Coast and Flagler County food trucks so again you know really want to to showcase our city so bringing in our local flavor and supporting local then that will take us to Zone three which is basically our kids zone we're going to have various different interactive activities for all all ages of our youth and uh everything from the interactive games to Inflatables uh to to face painting so it's a little bit something for everybody we are planning to charge for that area with the proceeds going back to our historical society and then leading us to our last Zone which is zone four and that's going to be where our main stage is going to be we're going to have a live band um again a stage some seating we are going to have some bars on site and uh we are also planning to have various City departments uh represented and onsite with different booths providing information and um in support of the event this is our general event timeline as of now so as mentioned the event is from 4: to 8:00 and throughout this this is more so for that stage in that entertainment piece a couple things I want to highlight on here we are going to have an on-site DJ a live band we'd love some opening remarks from our mayor and we are going to highlight uh various Community groups and with performances so again really bringing in that that the culture and the flavor and what we love about Palm Coast with our per uh Community groups performing um right there at the stage and then again having that live band as well another piece that we thought could be you know really great part of history is a small Time Capsule and of course a birthday cake because it is our anniversary and birthday so with the Time Capsule you know we're we're planning a small um ceremony and presentation there at the stage which will Encompass uh you know small elements from history that will be contributed through different partners and organizations within the community and then we would love to have that time capsule on display for our next future and generations why stop there so our celebration continues after our big October party leading into our winter events we want to continue that ongoing effort to bring awareness and celebrate this Milestone that our city has by incorporating more of these theme displays and giveaways into our winter holiday events so again really um encompassing that this theme and this celebration throughout the rest of the year we are planning to be a part of our annual uh boat parade and um of course um support our Fantasy Lights Festival as well with different displays and then lastly we have custom 25th anniversary holiday ornaments that will be given away at various events as well so thank you all for your time if you all had any questions any questions from Council I have none um I have a suggestion absolutely and I issue a challenge to my fellow council members and our BC as well our commissioners um if the proceeds for Zone 3 which is the kids zone with all the games and things that are going to go to our Historical Society I would suggest we get a dunking booth and uh maybe we charge to allow our residents to dunk some of our public officials oh okay I'm if if if the money if the money goes to the Historical Society I'm willing to do it you can mark my way I was just going to ask if you were volunteering no I volunteer everybody else no I'm willing to do it been there done that I have experience I believe you but no I'm this I'm really excited about this I think it's great this is a really cool milestone for our city that we often call um very young but with old bones I think this is a really cool event and I'm excited for it I think uh I think we should extend this to staff too not just us you know what they're probably going to be busy that day councilman Kus any question nope I think uh that idea is a slam dunk p and t all right good feels like you're right here he's funny when he's even not here absolutely all right wonderful presentation and I assume there will be much more um PR on social media as we get closer to the date so that everybody um in addition to those kind folks that are here tonight would be aware of the celebration do we have a record to break in terms of a turnout I'll let you find that out for us and we would as another challenge see if we can't uh exceed whatever numbers we've ever had for a prior event in U in town center before so we'll look forward to that as well so ladies thank you very much awesome challenge accepted thank you you thank you we now move forward to uh public participation in order for City staff to be able to respond to your questions or concerns please fill out a comment card with your contact information the comment cards can be found on the table near the agendas are available from the communications marketing director seated standing in the back anyone wishing to speak may approach the podium provide their name and may speak for up to 3 minutes please direct all comments to the mayor be concise and to the point avoid delaying or interrupting the proceedings and do not make any irrelevant impertinent or slandering comments any person who becomes disorderly may be barred from making any additional comments and may be removed with that let me open and one other comment um your public comments in this section are reserved for comments that are not part of the following agenda so with that um the podium is open for public comment yes Sir Daniel Seaman s Woods um we we had a very heated discussion with Council and you as well mayor about the building or the lack thereof apartments in seminal Woods we came to an agreement it's going to stay single family houses part of that agreement was that there was supposed to be a buffer between the neighborhood being built and um seminol Woods Road um the developer has gone in there and taken every single tree down in the area that is being developed not one is left standing um excuse me inside of that buffer there's not one left standing um there there has there's some oak trees further back but I'm assuming those are coming down but I don't know but it's irrelevant um the the buffer That was supposed to be there to create or to leave that Ambiance for seminal Woods is not there so I would like um you mayor or the council or whatever Department in the city needs to to to look into those permits and find out why that buffer was not um adhered to because um quite frankly I think they need to put trees back you know to make it right because it it it I don't know if you've driven down seminal Woods since they started clear and I understand those are pine trees and it's pulpwood that's fine but as long as there's a plan to put trees back and and create that recreate that buffer that's fine um we've tried to find it in public information and have been unable to do so um so maybe make that a little easier to find for us we can look at those plans and um I mean it's it it literally looks like they took a bush hog in there and took trees with to took the bush hog to the trees I mean it it they took them all um um so that's my public comment I would really like uh to be able to find those answers um it's almost I don't want to say they're hidden but it's not very easy to find information about what's happening there uh and that's it thank you all right I appreciate your comment thank you uh next speaker please good evening Jeffrey sa the recent tax discussions by the city council and the information presented by City staff paints a relatively good picture of city taxes declining Over The Last 5 Years the proposed millage rate of 41893 for a home valued at $250,000 with a $5,000 homestead exemption would be charged a city tax levy of $838 this amount is then included in the total avalor taxes which includes County taxes School Board and others like St John's River Water Management District this is what we pay each year for your hypothetical $250,000 $50,000 homestead exemption example the total tax liability comes down to $3,643 for a $400,000 home with a $50,000 exemption the city tax bill is $466 and the total tax bill is $637 our city taxes may go down but that will not go on forever as the numbers of new residents continues to increase and the services needed like police fire utilities roads and infrastructure costs increase the picture will be different from declining taxes in the city this will add to the increasing cost of living here so the lowest we can make the millage rate now is the starting point for next year's taxes at a recent city council meeting on taxes vice mayor Dano proposed the roll back millage rate of 39961 City staff presented a rate of 4.21 and4 I propose a rate of 41078 as a compromise midway between the two that rate for the $250,000 home would result in a city tax of $817 slightly lower than the 838 City staff called for the total tax bill for that 250 50,000 H home with my lower City millage rate would be 3552 versus 3,643 Savings in the city operation operating budget should be achieved by reducing the amount of growth in City operations in areas other than police fire storm water utilities roads and other infrastructural needs as I look at the city budget as presented increases of close to in more than 20 perent should be reduced in the following departments city manag manager and city clerk's office almost a 20% increase Communications 19% Human Resources 19% and economic development 22% this growth will result in higher taxes in the coming years these increases should be lowered to less than 10% it all adds up thank you for your comment next speaker up pleasee please please give give the excuse me please give each speaker their full three minutes so just hold the Applause yes sir uh Mark stanil 7 Woods I want to reiterate what a previous speaker said about the the trees that were being cut down on along 7al Woods the part of it is it's there's a sign says Tree City and we're cutting the trees down we fought this that there would be a buffer and these people need to be fined if they're not if they're not going to honor the the agreement that was made uh the other thing I want to speak about is uh we just had a primary and a lot of candidates you know spent a lot of money on signs and of course we have so many days that you know when you're eliminated uh I lost by two votes uh but uh but uh so afterwards two days after the recount uh I went out to get my signs and there were massive signs being taken up by somebody it's not the city because I checked with the city so they're clean but somebody's out there stealing people's signs so we pay good money for those uh and I'd like to think that uh because I know we have 15 days to uh get our signs up now of course now in my case I think we get a little more than that cuz our recount was until the Saturday after the election same with uh yours uh so we get a little extra time but I hope that there's a lot of people that have signed still up then I hope they get them get them taken up because they they lost uh and because I got mine up everybody else needs to get theirs up thank you thank you for your comment next speaker please all right all right next speaker please good you can go ahead and kind of queue up a little bit for uh speaking please go ahead Tony Michael w section I just like to make a comment um I'm grateful they're repaving the road on a Pine Lakes but whoever hired the con Construction Company really got to take a second look at them today as we were driving they're rerouting us down a side street 20 minutes out of our way to bring us in a big loop to bring us back on the Pine Lakes where now they want us to turn back and start to where we came from I mean and they and they said hey this is what we're supposed to do so I I called the police department not emergency number and I said excuse me I says but maybe we need an officer here to direct traffic normal construction people have a little stop sign and they let traffic come one way put the stop sign then the traffic will go the other way nope all the guy says hey do what the hell you want that's what the guy said I says you're routing people back to where you started from and then you want us to turn again so the police department told me they had multiple multiple calls because there was almost accidents happening because as they're trying to have people go the other way people were cutting around them and trying to get through so the police department says they went out there talked to the gentleman the gentleman told the police department I don't know what but they says they will no longer respond to take it up with the city so as I'm saying this whoever hired them okay they need to talk to them and give them the the rules on how to direct traffic and maybe give them a stop sign from one of the school districts or something because I I wasted almost a half hour of my day in my gas for nothing it's just incompetence of whoever hired them thank you for your comment next speaker please rob at McDonald Palm Coast couple of weeks ago a friend of mine her name is Melissa fing came here with some Flagler Warriors now for those people that in the audience that are not familiar with Flagler Warriors it's an organization for families who would have children with cancer and right now as we stand in Palm Coast and Flaga Beach there's like 35 or 40 kids that have cancer in just in this Flagler County well Melissa came and there was a proclamation made and there was we were told that the um signs were going to be put up well fast forwarded a couple of weeks now comes Friday of this past week no signs so I called the city well it was like well let me check with them let me check with them let me check with them well finally they came back and they said the signs are going to go up this afternoon great so I call Melissa and I say congratulations to signs up they're going to be up for the month of September well the problem is that the city now wants to charge me to put the signs up well that's not going to work because you just heard this young lady give this big presentation about this 25th anniversary but nobody has said yet how much it's going to cost us to have this big celebration now you got all these other fiascos that we've done over the last four or five years is the green lion in the community center The Flash par the splash park we've got all these Fiasco or the tennis and pickle ball court but yet we can't the city can't turn around and say to Melissa who by the way takes all the money and donates it to live like Cameron because Cameron unless you don't know Cameron was her son and he was the first one to die okay and that to me is personal okay I never got the meet Cav but I feel that I know him through his mother and the work that this woman has put in and not accepted a dime but yet the city has the be nice Robert has the audacity and the go to charge this woman to use this the the park and this and Palm Coast and put a couple of signs up are you people flipping crazy well I want to I want to be whatever it is because nobody can tell me who imposed the fee cuz I'd like the I'd like the person to stand here and tell me to my big ugly face yes I'm the one that's responsible for finding this woman cuz I don't think anybody in this room has got enough Moxy to come up here and stand here in front of all these people and tell them that yeah the decision came from me that is be nice that is a load of crap okay I'm trying to be political ically nice okay now I want somebody right now up here to say no this is public comment Bob you know that EXC me this is public comment I will have the city manager get back to you and your 3 minutes is it going to be before the 22nd because that's when the because that's when the B your your three minutes are expired and we have other speakers so we will follow up with you on that issue oh I know you will thank you next speaker please good evening city council Mark web District 4 um I was present at the 27th meeting when you were discussing your options of filling the District 4 seat and I'm here tonight to ask for clarification of one of the information bases that were shared there were three options one how old an election Too Short understood it was clear two put it off within the 90 days of when the elections completed November 5th the acting city manager said that wouldn't work 109 days to December 5th odd the third one was the one youall have chosen of which you're aggressively trying to get it filled and seated by October 1st I am asking for a review of option two because I believe that we will be well within the 90 days on November 22nd which is the 3D Tuesday of November to seat the city council members that could if you chose to allow the new elected council members to choose our district seat for and for the record I'm not running for it my name's not in it I just want to have clarification to understand that the city is is doing the right thing by the voting people that have decided thank you very much thank you for your [Applause] comment yes ma'am hi my name is Shantal piger and I live in section z um when you drive your car in uh any stock you have along the roads a a white line and that line is meant for you to look at when you have cars on the opposite sides coming with bright flashing lights um on um wide View Parkway you can barely see those lines so if somebody could take notes of that and just put some paints on those that would be really helpful especially when I look at something that was posted by the city of Palm Coast on Facebook today that say that they just put um a bridge in a place and they're very proud to have the golf first back enjoing the new take on the 18th whole stable so um what I'm saying here it's priorities please think about priorities and and having those lines would be really nice thank you thank you for your comment next speaker please good evening Cornelia Downing manfrey I wanted to come to the city council and ask you to reconsider about this referendum that you have uh plan for the ballot um I'm very concerned that 25 years ago our founding fathers decided that we would have a cap and a time frame on any borrowing power the proposed language of eliminating number the 3E from um article six of the charter leaves it very open-ended the other odity in this language is that it says that the ability to address the growth will have future residents contributing to this infrastructure cost Etc so does that mean the future residents will get a tax bill plus another bill for this having to pay any kind of bond issuance that's taken the language is very confusing and I think it needs to be reconsidered the the bonds when they're not when we do not have sufficient funds from our tax collections you may need to go to bond for infrastructure however your your bonding like your mortgage on your home or a credit card rate those are specific in use rate and the term this language is extremely open-ended Bond insuance also would be using to mortgage the future of the community the CH the charter eliminating a cap on borrowing is not necessary and should be left for the incoming Council to address therefore I'm asking that this referendum in its vagueness be stricken from the ballot thank you thank you for your comment next speaker please uh I'm Jeanie Jorte thank you Mr or mayor Alin for telling me to read the charter the current Charter provision 3E reads as follows unless authorized by the electors of the city at a duly held referendum election the council shall not enter into least purchased contracts or any other unfunded multi-year contract s the repayment of which extends in excess of 36 months or exceeds $15 million I made the mistake of reading the posture of this proposed amended language for the ballot as if it were a suggestion when indeed it is not it's your intentions your proposed language for the ballot reads shall article six of the charter be amended by removing Provisions 3E related to fiscal Contracting Authority that limit the city's ability to enter into public private partnership that right there eliminates our voice and our right to vote as well as eliminates the $15 million cap and the 36-month repayment deadline then in a roundabout way it goes on to say that the city will have the ability to address growth by having future residents contribute to infrastructure costs respond to emergencies and use available finances financial instruments including but not limited to bonds so you are telling us for the purpose of expansion that you want to bankrupt Palm Coast that's your intentions with us the C citizens of Palm Coast not having allow the speaker to have her three minutes please with us the thank you with us the citizens of Palm Coast not having a voice and not and having no vote and you have an exclusive power and no no accountability this screams of voter suppression mayor Alin Miss pontier she's an attorney move the statement from thought to ballot is extremely disturbing we have heard her push for her commercial growth and there's nothing wrong with that but she openly admitted to her involvement in writing this and for this she cannot be trusted may I remind you you are sitting in a public servant seat on the behalf of the public the people of Palm Coast you should be ashamed to please direct your comments to me thank you and that's a no to thank you for your comment next speaker [Applause] please please hold the re the Applause so that each Speaker gets a full three minutes go ahead hey greetings uh city council Andrew pomco so I just wanted to uh address the empty chair um there are two Empty Chairs tonight uh but I just wanted to say uh thank you to Miss heider for service to our city just tell a quick story um my favorite event that I attended last year was the Flagler County Veterans Day parade at the end of the event a man sang a song I'm proud to be an American Under the Tent where the elected officials sit many of you guys were there miss heider could be seen waving an American flag with her typical big smile um it was a great moment of patriotism and just a great display of love for our country so I'm very thankful thank you uh Miss Hider uh but her resignation leaves us in a tough spot to find her replacement I'm a little disappointed by the council's passive dismissal of the option of holding a special election see I'm a candidate and I've had to work hard for my support I've also had to take on criticism both I consider a great honor part of the privilege of running for public office and an honor I would not want to deprive anyone sitting up on that dis uh but the vote was made uh to appoint the next candidate and I think that we can still find a great candidate in this process I'll give the example of our most recent appointee John Finelli someone who I would vote for uh tomorrow if he was on the ballot so we can find good candidates through this process too uh even though it wasn't my preference uh so I would encourage the city to use our marketing budget to inform the public as much as possible so we can all be a part of the process each and every step of the way and I would encourage the uh the people of Palm Coast to show up and show up participate and uh make your voice heard and I'll leave you uh with the words of Thomas Jefferson the government will not be run by the majority but the government will be run by the majority who participate so please participate and thank you thank you for your comment next speaker please candy Stevens P section I'm actually a little bit shocked right now one of my questions today was who wrote the language in that change because it's so unclear so muddy it's just not clear if you read the initial reading like she read it and then how it's written it's like a a sentence paragraph It's a sentence that's a paragraph and it seems like it's meant to mislead so you guys can't let that it's not going to get passed because nobody's going to vote Yes for it the way it's worded uh you got to word it different it's not right for anybody that's in legislation to pass anything that's going to be for more than their term maybe a double their term but something that's going to go for 25 years this these kind of bonds that we're talking will be long-term bonds a lot of you guys will be gone most of us will still be here you've also got a lot of people that have money like you mayor once your turn's over in a couple months you might just leave Palm Coast and go where where you came from a lot of people don't have that option so some of these things that you're passing and asking us to vote for none of us have any right to be voting for stuff that far out into the future the city doesn't have the money for it we can't even do our infrastructure correctly and you guys want to do these junk bonds for some fake something or other that you're going to build out west that's going to be vacant like the one that's next to my house now if you guys want to ask for money for bonds ask for what you really want the bond money for first of all right be straight up ask us if you want it to build out west ask us and let us tell you no because we will tell you that yeah if you want it for infrastructure we'll tell you yes we will but we're not going to give you any more money for anything else other than that and that's a big if on that because we've already paid enough so you need to start listening again I know you're on your way out and I know you're the only one staying and I have a lot of faith in you and I have since the very beginning but if you did have any writing of that can you please go back and change it before it goes on the ballot because it's not going to get passed and I just want to remind everybody of in this room something once a tax is added to you they don't take it away once your vote is taken away they don't give it back vote no thank you for your comment please please please next speaker next speaker please good evening darling Shelly Palm Coast um just two comments here um first I'd like to request not to rewrite um the change to the Charter but to remove it from the ballot uh it's too late it's too confusing it's um derived from a council that um for the most part is going to be out so please remove it from the ballot um the obviously the folks in Palm Coast are against it and quite frankly confused by it um I think you've underestimated the citizens and um we request that it is removed from the ballot um another uh concern I'd like to bring up um as you are well aware because I send you many emails and I'm just trying to bring awareness to it because I think a lot of citizens don't realize why there's so much um noise above their homes from airplanes um they think that perhaps it's um planes going from one place to another but in fact it's from training flights from um airports that are for-profit um schools um the Flagler Executive Airport is a county own owned public use general aviation airport that's operated and maintained under the Flagler County Board of County Commissioners the airport is located entirely within the city of Palm Coast and is closely surrounded by schools retail businesses a hospital and thousands of homes and apartments thousands of Palm Coast residents are having their home values lowered their quality of life diminished and safety in Health and Welfare threatened by the hundreds of daily touch andgo Maneuvers executed by student Pilots by for-profit flight schools Palm Coast gets nothing in return only 720 lbs of lead polluted annually unsafe decb of noise and the loss of our rights to peace and quiet in our own own homes if there were impact fees assessed on these flight schools the amount would be incalculable despite years of requests from the residents Flagler County has not stepped up to help us the city claims it's a county issue the FAA States they only have jurisdiction of planes in the air the residents of Palm Coast have the right to peace and quiet in our own home homes clean air and water and an environment free of constant noise and nuisance thank you thank you for your comment next speaker please James D uh last meeting Ed mentioned that if we don't like the person you appoint to the vacant seat we can just vote them out in two years my response was that too much damage could be done between now and then of course a recall could be an option but that building on that likewise right now there was too much damage that can be done between now and the end of your terms particularly this issue of borrowing an unlimited amount of money through the sale of bonds without our approval the language on the proposal is intentionally misleading deceptive and thanks to Ed we were able to figure out what it really meant now miss Teresa backed him up in his opposition but failed to make a second on motion to rectify the language and situation big issues like this and anything relating to building of multif family housing and housing developments that is overpriced cookie cutter homes should not be entertained or voted on for the rest of your terms the calculations for the stadium you can look on PC loudmouth uh but it comes down to is that we'll be paying the city paying um Synergy group Sports Group to turn a profit so they can return pennies back to the city so it doesn't look like a good return on investment now as far as the western expansion is concerned I said this before give us useful everyday needs like a gas station convenience stored Food Market family restaurants and businesses that will create jobs uh that will alleviate traffic on this side of town on the center part of town neighborhood streets could be built just like we have now where you buy a lot and you build the house that you want on that lot not these crappy cookie cutter houses how about a go-kart and miniature golf start with that and expand a little bit all right so let's get and can we get back the money that was accidentally on purpose given towards western expansion rather than for our our roads as it was intended uh as far as vague languages Amendment four that's coming up in November that's another example of confusing language that will force people to vote opposite of what they want so let's get this language cleared up so we can all uh know what's what it's talking about and don't vote on any of these big issues until you're out of here let them let the new Administration take care of it and finally what's going on at the route 100 like they stopped and now you got traffic backed up because there's no turn Lanes on Old Kings so I hope they can speed that up there and why didn't they put a night crew on Pine Lakes instead of doing it during the day thank you for your comment next speaker please my name is reene berer I live in the r section I spoke a few years ago about the swimming pool or the Olympic swimming pool for the city of Palm Co when I arrived here 13 years ago we had three pool Fred theall Fitness One Bel te and swim recet club we a group of 200 75 seniors have helped Bel hair swim Racket Club to improve it not only for the seniors of pal Coes but for everyone as we find out this year the school took the seniors away from our beautiful Bel Air swim and Wrecking club now we only have one pool left which is fre to Zamba I think that the city of Palm Cove deserve better for the swimmer who love Palm Coes I myself can only swim because of my health issue I feel that if you could considered uh caring for the senior who loves swimming in the pool to uh do something about it I find out and I don't know if it's true that you had open a ground near uh uh near uh I don't remember the the place uh toward uh Old Kings Road and they said that you could not continue because of the federal fund I don't know what the true story is but I would appreciate if you made some effort to improve this situation for the sing thank you for your comment next speaker please next [Applause] speaker my name is siia Bui I live here since 1991 I cannot be more sad to to Echo this lady she's a one of those uh elderly uh there are uh people young old with disabilities families with limited incomes and there are also uh uh children that use the pool they've been close to 1,78 members the belter swim and rocket club that was a selling point for it when I came here back then everybody could use the pool my daughter pay when she visited membership or visitors whatever to use the pool they're taking everything away from us this is I know is by the school but you should have been able to work something over just a Le $50,000 uh budget short uh on a year for these people to lose the use of the memberships of the pool I mean everything is bad for for pump coasters here also the the horrible stories we have for over almost five 5,000 complaints to this airport on the uh adjacent uh qu Hollow and seminol woods all those thousands of residents that are continuously bage with these fly schools uh uh taking uh touch and goes learning over us over even my house at 8 Miles I'm a Walken 7:00 a.m. in the morning or early here you know because they're rounds and round it's going to be tragedies here and everybody the city and the and the county will be responsible for lives loss because this is people training young people training we you need to resolve that issue uh one other thing is please pay attention to us we don't want a referendum as is written we wish that if you're going to point somebody now to uh replace Mrs heer do it until March election of banel and if we if it cost us $100,000 on a special election okay then you allow the people to elect somebody and the person that you appoint now if it's a good person will run as well and we'll have the the chance to be elected by the people you know what happened in this election is just the picture of discontent from we the people that somebody that is not here said oh that's the problem right with the people are important when we get together do something for with the people the the airport it's horrible what you hear on this for these people go visit them see what they are exposed to and the the belter pool and just hear us please thank you thank you for your comment next speaker [Applause] please any other speakers if you want to come out the aisle Peter Johnson Palm Coast um just wanted to start off by kind of echoing what Andrew said about Kathy Haider um unfortunate resignation but you know thank you for her service to the city council and everything she has done I I'm no longer in the race so I can talk pretty freely I'm a little bit concerned and this came directly from Jason D Lorenzo's mouth and I think the city needs a little bit of transparency in this I spoke to him at the southern Recreation Center at one point and he said that the intent of the city was to recenter itself up and down along US1 hence fueling the westward expansion and I rebutted to him that in theory that's a good idea cuz if we've lost the plot on town center right who cares at this point Town Center's gone it's Apartments there's nothing we could build there we can't get in what we need so it makes sense in that aspect however what doesn't make sense is that all up in Long down US1 and similar to other areas there's commercial there's businesses we've put 7,000 houses so what is the point of the westward expansion and if we're going to build that West I think we should be very transparent in what is being done and what the actual intentions are just thought thank you for your comment next speaker please I don't know if this is the right time I know there's something with short-term rental but I don't know any background of that that's that's coming up if you could hold till we get to that if you would thank you sir thanks next speaker any Council Dennis McDonald mayor um a number of months back the subject came up about the bonds okay and apparently staff had recommended to you and the council that you needed more room to be able to do bonding in today's world you needed a little bit more money okay because inflation we've got inflation going on so we all recognize that so what I can't understand and wrap my head around is this convoluted sentence paragraph somebody called it here that you're trying to put up for a referendum you very simply asked for a increase and the amount okay you have a limit now so the only thing we should really be considering and offering or being offered for referendum is a simple increase in the amount of your ability this City's ability to bond not yours excuse me this City's ability to bond okay this has taken a course that is completely convoluted and off course and it's no wonder there is such a um you know a uproar in in the community you know I'm hearing things like alphin bonds and all kinds of crazy things going on okay and and I don't need you know it doesn't need to be that way okay you simply ask for an increase in the in your ceiling on how much you can Bond how about just holding to that rather than getting into this wild goose chase now one thing I would like to bring up and remind everybody CU many of you were not not here in 2018 let me talk about lame duck okay we got a lame duck County Commission in 2018 when Nate mlin got voted out on his very last day in office he stuck us with Bings Landing for over a million bucks and what's G on right now it's gone on for years and I don't believe that it's still settled right now okay so we're conscious of that and we're watching we're on guard now okay we got a part taken from us that we voted in by referendum we voted to buy it okay and then what happened is mclocklin Hansen and Sullivan decided that somebody should be able to put a restaurant on it okay and a bad lease was written a judge made fun of it um and said that you've got to stay the course so we got stuck with that and that was all lame Ducks all I'm saying is please everybody who um you know is not continuing on this Council please don't stick us with another Bings Landing thank you thank you for your comment next speaker please please please please yes ma'am hi my name is Angie um I have a concern about old Bel Road a church was built there turf was put on Old Bel and that goes off of Matan cuts through okay beautiful sidewalks are put in we constantly having tractor and trailers pulling up there and using them for their parking spaces all night they have actually taken the turf and almost looks like you have two sidewalks now because all of it's gone I went and they're not keeping the grass cut over in that area I went and spoke to somebody over the other day and they said well we have one man who goes one time a week to check these things well that's not accept because these guys are coming home and put I mean I've had car haulers parked there I mean you need to put new parking signs up there now we have a strip torn out the area needs to be mowed you know it's it's really in bad shape there so some something needs to be done now I talked to busri the bus drivers are doing the same thing so they can smoke they're pulling over there when you have wet ground you're tearing the ground up so I did speak to one of the bus drivers the other day and asked her if she could please quit having the buses drive up under this grass and tear this up she said well I didn't realize that was a problem I said well it's illegal to be up there it's it's a grass so she said well she would speak I haven't seen buses there but we do are having problems with the tractor and TRS I understand you know maybe they want to you know they want to stay home the weekend with their family that's fine but find some place out the park quit tearing up the our area there okay and then I have something to address about a bid but I need I guess I have to wait till you do the bid part for um client construction I have a question on that bid so I have to wait until you do that please okay I will all right thank you thank you for your comment next speaker please good evening Ed Fuller honorable mayor honorable City councilmen and honorable city council women U I just want to acknowledge uh several employees that I've had dealings with over the past week and I and I want to give them a shout out uh Flagger Tiger Bay had our wine event over here was well attended and I'm sure some of the people in the audience were there and I want to thank uh everyone uh that was involved with that Community Center the place was immaculate we had catering that the kitchen was clean the floors were clean the restrooms were spotless and the main conference room was unbelievably clean the PA system was great when you have an event like this you only get one time you get one impression first impression is the best so I want to thank uh Sandy gromberg and Aaron rimestad for their help and making our event of success so please pass that along for me and our members of Flagger Tiger Bay also uh I I attended the concert in the park uh I don't know if I got this the band right but it was Soul fire it was unbelievable uh they rocked the house uh I guess I'm going to date myself I actually knew every one of those songs they play played I'm sure everybody in the audience probably did not maybe but it was it was unbelievable electric and when you go to an event like that you figured boy there's going to be all kinds of people there and there were maybe maybe 1,500 which was well attended which is great uh when you attend a vent you want to make sure the biggest concern you have other than the vent vent being good is that you want to get into the the venue with no problem and I can tell you this much uh when I went there I went there a little late and uh there was traffic bumper to bumper but I'll tell you what it moved there was no congestion whatsoever and I it was an outstanding job of moving people in place so you could get to your proper place and get to that concert immediately and by the way those employees that were directing traffic they were facing the sun anybody who's worked out there in a detail in the sun in this in in Florida it's unbelievable they did an amazing job so I want to get a shout out to them please uh it was uh Matthew Johnson Derek Conlin Daniel Caulkins Steven Costello and Mark nardone please please give them my shout out that was amazing concert thank you for putting that on and one other thing to note Flagger Tiger Bay is hosting a candidate for him September 25th everybody put that down please we'll give you some advertising for that and it'll be at the community center thank you for muching God bless you thank you thank you for your comment next uh speaker please marn Mack the F section I've been here 12 and a half years place has changed a lot I just wanted to make some general comments mainly to my neighbors and some of the other residents here that's what attorneys do they do legal jargon if anybody has any questions you can feel free to contact me because I have 26 years of cont in experience I know what they mean by the word shall must and will very familiar with it and that's how that whole thing was wrote was to be confusing for everyone which I really think that's pretty disgusting actually so you don't understand the group of people you have back here back here that are protecting each other and working together and trying to make things change regardless of what you all are trying to do it's really pretty disgusting um I would like to know how much the cost is for that 20 th year event nobody brought that up I'd like to know how much that is as far as the bond what you guys are asking for to change the charter and everything in my personal opinion just my personal opinion I think it's illegal what you're trying to do which I'm not surprised because you guys don't follow any rules here the employees don't follow any rules don't follow any laws it's just a rogue government that's what we got thank you thank you for your comment next speaker please are there any additional speakers that would like to comment at this time hold on yes we still have another speaker Gary Kunis section c I'll make this quick last mayor authorized a splash Pond which was 7 plus million we additional 3 million we could have built a nice swimming pool for that money a beautiful pool could have been a lot of people could have used that far as the airport the city and the property around the airport the people knew they were moving into the airport and it made noise that was their option article six that was deliberately written the way it was to get the votes for it the two attorneys wrote that put participated in that should be held accountable for it I have 2,000 people on next door that are going to vote no because they don't want it and you need to remove it from the ballot thank you thank you for your comment are there any additional speakers that would like to address me at this time seeing no one come forward I'll close public comment city council members do you want to respond uh briefly to any of Lakes Parkway I got a lot of calls today a lot of complaints I think our city manager might have something I hope you have good news uh yes we're actively working with the contractor our project manager was on site today um so we will not have the disruptions tomorrow second I will make this motion again one last time to take these bonds off of the ballot until a new Council rewrites the language yes do I have a [Applause] second unfortunately I need a second up here folks but thank you first of all Mr vice mayor what is your motion my motion is to take the bonds off the ballot for November the language all right I recognized you I've recognized you I hear the motion I've made that motion I have a motion um is there any is there a second I will second for discussion because I do have something to say about this and I don't want the discussion to go away okay so you have a motion and a second go ahead okay on this issue specifically um first I want to correct the record because I heard podcasts out there and um incorrect information floating around about how this language came to fruition the language was edited right here on this dis because the initial language of the charter amendment was proposed by legal and staff not me by legal counsel and by staff you and I vice mayor Danko agreed that the language needed to be amended talk to me okay mayor we agreed myself and vice mayor to uh amend the language to add more transparency and then we as a council voted jointly I did not single-hand handedly write this language I did not uh do this by myself we had consensus from this Council and vice mayor and I worked together to edit it to make it more transparent anybody can go back and watch that that video um my suggestion because you know first of all this is a referendum if you all don't want it then you vote no um and I actually think that that will happen I do think that it will be that the vote will be no on this my suggestion is that we as Council enter into a refer because at this point we could pull it from the ballot yes um we can't amend the language at this point right so what we could do though is enter into a resolution we can that would be effective January 1st 2025 if the Rend referendum passed is where it takes a majority or a super majority vote so four out of five people to borrow more than $30 million and enter into any agreement over five years that would alleviate this largely alleviate not completely but largely alleviate this issue of a fear that we will be able to borrow whatever we want which we can't do there's all types of lending policies and we actually as a city have a lending policy that wouldn't even allow us to borrow whatever we want um that being said I recognize the The public's apprehension in this regard and so if we do not get the votes to pull this from the referendum I suggest that we as Council enter into this resolution where it requires a super majority vote to borrow more than $30 million and enter into any contract over 5 years I specifically and this amount needs to be adjusted for inflation here's what I will say about um the intent behind this Charter amendment I can't speak for anybody else I don't know what everybody 's intentions with this Charter Amendment are my intentions are to fix infrastructure without paying as we go the pay as you go system is not working it is not tenable it is not sustainable we have to be able to borrow money to fix infrastructure before it breaks so it is it is excuse it is my opinion that when this was entered into for $15 million what 25 years ago um it didn't adjust for inflation that amount of money barely pays for one pipe for our utility system underneath the ground these days so it does need to be updated it does need to be changed whether or not um there were other intentions from other people about building out west and all those things I can't speak to I can speak to the challenges that I face every single day up here trying to figure out how to get money to fix your roads and how to get money to fix utilities and water and all of those things that we need and so um I understand the apprehension but I I think there are other mechanisms that we can use as Council to put on those guard rails and those safeguards that our residents are concerned about hold on one second I wait I have councilman clus councilman Kus any comment at this time uh not necessarily I just say that we do need to find ways to be able to fund our infrastructure projects but we it make it more difficult on ourselves when you know we have a roll back of taxes last year we cut $2.5 million out of a budget and we just have to reemphasize our priorities because those two are not uh mutually exclusive but uh that's all I have thank you I just want to say when Council Council woman pontier and I worked on that language we were both focused on infrastructure if I may let me just correct you it was worked on in the public on the DAT I don't want anyone to think that the two of you colluded somewhere else we did we did both go back and forth on language together and I believe in the public on the DAT I just want to correct that yes yes on the yes yes in public um we did both go back and forth on language and we did rewrite it and I I and part of the thing was the emergency thing which we felt should be pushed further down and I think both of our focus and attention was for infrastructure for Palm Coast for the city Palm Coast 1.0 and I believe we both were in on that same page I changed my mind after learning other things at a meeting that I expressed last week I don't know if you were told the same things or not I assume you weren't but that is why I changed my mind on this I I like your suggestion what you just suggested but I also think we could add something to it because what we're doing with this is still taking away the right of the public to vote on any bonds and that's what we presently have right now the public would have to have a bond if we came up with a bond for 15 million with a 36 month payback the public would get to vote on it so I think any bonding in the future would also include that I would hope and and I'm curious what you think of that so if I if I may just just for just for a point of clarification the the term bonding is being used frequently here uh Council can you uh update us on that [Music] um so when we're using bonds that's using different things to pay for our projects so anything from uh certainly breaking it down it is certain types of bonds we have but uh I wouldn't are you asking me to get into specific of different types of bonds or what bonds we're going to be using if we because there are certain bonds that as councilwoman pontier pointed out before we're limited on the we allowed to use without going through taxes and stuff like that okay I was really trying to get to the constraint that exists on all bonds from the lender but we'll get there okay well I think the constraints that we presently have are 15 million 36 months to pay it back and it has to become part of a referendum that the public would vote on is that correct yes that's correct all right so I'm saying we would want to keep that public right and not take the right away from the public to actually vote but more importantly uh um miss pontier you also mentioned at the end of our discussion last week that you had some new language that you kind of liked was my impression is what you were saying is that correct yes and I and I and it's similar to what I'm proposing for the referendum however because of the deadline to get language on the ballot we would have to do two votes on that and so we don't have that time so so what we'd have to do is pull it from the ballot this time wait two years and my concern is we we are in a bad way for util I got to tell you um and you know that you know I know utilities but my concern is the westward expansion and a stadium and and 90 something million dollar that that's my concern I'll I'll be addressing that when we get to the also our Council said that we would have to bring this back and forth a couple of times that's your interpretation of the charter correct I don't asking I don't understand the question my you said you said and Miss pontier just referenced it that if we were to change the language we would need more time because we'd have to go back and forth a couple of times is that correct in a way so Florida statute requires when you're adopting an ordinance to reads and when you before you adopt it you have to give a 10-day notice so we can't change the language so all we're left with is removing it from the ballot which I get the impression the public is going to do anyway um and letting a new Council rewrite it with better language but I'm curious Council woman pontier the language that you like that you reference can can you read that for us sure my computer is thinking give me one moment we've all been there it's I will tell you vice mayor it's similar to what I just proposed as a resolution because I was going to propose it for the charter Amendment but due to the notice requirements and the read Requirements we just didn't have time at this juncture um and I apologize for the wait I'm waiting on my computer to get up here I hate when that happens when you're online line with somebody you know or you're you're on the telephone and there's a person on the other end at the bank and their computer freezes up and I wish Mr clus was here to tell a few jokes but feel free Nick if oh fair enough and you have to have that uncomfortable conversation trying to stall time and you don't really know what to do I'm with it I feel that um while we're waiting uh if I may I I did have um something for the folks that were talking about the airport that way we're not just wasting time here um first we did add some language to the comp plan where it requires us to work with the county on the airport noise once my computer pulls up I'll give you that exact section number that it's been added to the comp plan and I worked with staff to make sure that language was added and um Council agreed um and then also the county has made it a public knowledge that they are looking to charge a fee per touch and go so the county is working on that um they do hear you um I've been in touch with the county and they have told us that that is public knowledge they are going to um try to impose uh those those fees for the touch and go so on the the comp plan policy for those who want to eventually look it up it's policy 2.1.8 point4 where the city shall coordinate with Flagler County and the Flagler Executive Airport to address noise impacts on residential areas in accordance with federal and state laws regulations and guidelines so um we did hear you there and we are going to address that now regarding the proposed um Amendment language I was going to propose prior to learning that we just didn't have time to get it on the ballot because we do have to get the ballot language to the the um Supervisor of Elections office I think by the 5th of this month um shall article six of the charter be amended by removing provision 3E related to fiscal Contracting Authority that limit the city's ability without voter approval from entering into contracts and incurring debt with repayment terms greater than 36 months and amounts greater than $15 million the purpose of this amendment is to give city council by a simple majority vote the authority to assume obligations of any terms and any amount I felt that was more clear as to what we were doing and would have proposed that but obviously we just don't have that time so that's why I thought well let's come up with something new that we could propose to put on those safeguards which is that referendum that would require a super majority vote in order to increase the the borrowing that we currently have thank you if you would uh if you would add i' like the super majority vote which I assume means four out of five Council people right uh just out of curiosity because I don't know if say if there were only four Council people present would it then require three out of four or would you have to have four out of five it would have to be uh it would have to be four out of five regardless of how many were present if you would be willing to May vice mayor well speaking to her I'm not speaking to you David I'm speaking to her I'm recognizing you so please yeah okay fine uh if you would be willing to add to this um it would also have to go on a referendum and let the public decide after we had a super majority I would be in favor of it I think it's a great solution Council pontier my only my only issue with that though though Vice May is then presumably it would take years to address infrastructure needs and I and I I just I have a concern about that so it's my opinion that if and again I don't think the voting public is going to vote Yes on this I really don't but if they do um and we then work in this super majority vote of people that they've elected um to decide that a contract over a certain amount of money um is necessary for these infrastructure needs or quite candidly a private public partnership that allows a private Company to pay for things rather than the taxpayer um then to me that is a a reasonable Safeguard to put in place but still allows us in a in a timely manner because that's my concern about putting everything on a referendum um still in a timely manner addressing some of these very expensive infrastructure needs so if we put that into place then what I'm saying and and the folks vote down these bonds or we pull the bonds and put that in place that would be a good thing too right just to pull the bonds and vote on what you're proposing which I would be in favor of well the problem with that is we can't be we either have to we either have to pull this completely from this ballot and then wait until the next election in two years or we move forward with this language and then enter into this um this resolution which would be effective January 1st of 2025 if the the the amendment passes because we just don't have time to get new language to the SE soe so we couldn't do this language and pull the bonds is what you're saying you don't have time you don't have the time the calendar doesn't doesn't I wish we could but I wish we could too because I like this language all right councilman Kus any comment before I let the public uh you haven't already spoken on the issue um councilman clus any final comment yeah no additional comments um I I think that we're back are against the wall with the temporal uh limitations here but yeah the new language does make it a little bit more clear on what we're able to do but unfortunately it's going to uh extend our ability to do so so far into the future if we don't give it a war now so no that's my comment thank you so with that I will open up one more all right go aead thing so what you're saying I just want to make sure I'm clear councilwoman pontier we wouldn't be able the language you're proposing the change in language or what you're proposing we wouldn't be able to do for or new Council wouldn't be able to do for just two years from now they could do it on a ballot it could be put on a ballot in two years what you're proposing could be put on a ballot so we're just talking about waiting if we wanted to amend if we if whether or not we pull this language from the ballot now now and wait on the new Council to propose it for next year or whether we move forward with this vote now and then have the new Council say we want to amend again we can do that too right so we're just talking two years waiting no no no listen to what you just said new hold on let's listen for a minute okay the new Council can come in and amend the new Council can come in and amend in advance of the two years is that correct can you please clarify which Lang anguage you're talking about if okay the language that would be if the language that is currently headed for the ballot was voted favorably can any um uh adjustment to that language be made before the next election Mak another amend we'd have to do another Charter Amendment yeah you'd be making another amendment to the Charter so that would have to they would have to wait for two years okay so my question is what you were proposing all right say we just yank this off the ballot but then you propose your language here and we vote on this tonight or a week from now whenever no no we no wait we have a motion on the floor and a second we're going to vote in just a minute yeah no I'm talking about something different for conversation here well let's stick with the motion I know what the motion is but um procedure that we have to follow I have to have public no you don't because I have to have public comment regarding this motion I'm asking her she had brought up something else that she wanted to tack on in case this passed and I'm saying is if we voted on what you brought up all right that could go on as a referendum in just two short years it yes so it can hold as a resolution um in the meantime and then yes the new Council can say hey you want to further the charter again and we do the same process that we did with this Council right so I really think then considering that and I love your language here uh I really do um I appreciate it so much I think yanking this from the ballot and proceeding down the path you just laid out only puts us two years away from getting the ability to actually do bonds in a way that the public understands why we're doing it I actually think this makes a lot of sense good okay now I will open up public comment does anyone want to want to comment if you haven't already spoken on this issue on the conversation that we just had on the motion on the floor okay just can I speak she mentioned I can't hear you well talk into the microphone not to me through to me through there pull it down there you go before you put me on the and introduce yourself first I just want to know introduce Quail Hollow can I speak on the airport um plan you mentioned I'm only I'm I'm only doing public comment we have a motion a second we've had discussion so right now public comment on the motion that is in play okay you I'll find we'll get back to you okay thank you uh later later in the agenda there's an appropriate spot for that yes there is please introduce yourself jie DTE Mr Denko what are you doing this please uh address your comments to me thank you sorry about that mayor Alin what is Mr Denko doing this language is still very dis very confusing I say we drop it and not throw in anything that's going to further confuse that's more toward what you're trying to accomplish you're still trying to song and dance and dance around the same stuff your proposed language that you just said is almost identical to what we already said we don't approve of and now you want to song and dance and make it even more confusing about something else that you want to add to it change it and think you're going to throw it in there and maybe you know temporarily do for the next two years I don't know what you're trying to pull here but absolutely not thank you for your comment next speaker please all right come on come on Donna Kaylor e section uh first I have a question and this is I think it's a legitimate question uh the the city or the council already has the ability and the authority to to do the bond thing up to 15 million yes am I right there well this is public comment so I'll have somebody okay uh that's not okay um because your answer kind of feeds to my next question or my next comment if you already already have the ability why do you need more um it it just seems like every time this Council needs money for something you're coming to us coming to us the well is dry um I know we're behind the eightball on a lot of utility and infrastructure issues and that's where our heart is here that's where we want the money to go but somewhere in the in the Matrix this story about this Sports Complex got started and we're saying Absol freaking lutely not we do not need a sports complex we need better roads we need wastewater treatment capacity increases and until we can take care of those no but you already have the ability to issue bonds for infrastructure I guess don't you without public com okay next speaker please you never get shant uh yes that was very confusing what I understand from that is you're trying to get more money you need more money right this is your turn for public comment so your questions are go on to the record so my question but I remember when you tried to pass that increase of salary for you all some of you were not in that Council you said that the finances were very heavy what happened in between did you lie to us was it heavy was it not why do we need to borrow so much money thank you for your comment next speaker please um give him a minute okay go Ahad Mark stancel s Woods uh problem with uh you know this uh Bond thing is you know we need to let the new Council take care of this pass it on to the new Council let them take care of the rewarding it and uh because people people here are scared they hear rumors about stadiums and out nowhere and slums and and you know it scares people people don't need to be scared people Palm Coast need to be secure you know we do need the infrastructure help you know uh water water waste plant number one is overburdened it needs to be totally rehauled okay that that's a lot of money you know right now we need another membrane out at out at Water Treatment Plant number three you know and that's going to take two two years to install and but but we need it now okay we're going to be behind the eightball if we don't take care of the damn in infrastructure you know so we don't need to to burden the people with something that they they're scared of you know we need to take care of it pass it on to the new city council that them reward it and take care of us thank you thank you for your comment next speaker please Bob you're next I think either one either one go ahead Robert Mcdonald Palm Coast my daughter has a famous line that when something happened she said well we did just wake up this morning and this happened well no the words were true the council D didn't wake up this morning and say you know what tonight at the meeting we're going to bring up about Bond issues this has been brewing for months if not years so considering the fact that four of the five people who sit up here who determine how much we have to spend in taxes are going to be gone in another couple of weeks why don't we since we didn't just wake up this morning and say we need Bond money why don't we wait until the new Council and the whole regime up there is sitting in place and let them make the decision I have the utmost respect for Council woman pontier but I don't think correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think that we're going to go broke between now and the time that the new Council sits now you're probably one of the smartest people sitting up there because you're explaining it to us so we can understand this but like I said you folks didn't just wake up this morning and say I think we should bring this up to tonight at the meeting this had had to been brewing for a while so why don't we let it brew a little bit longer and wait until the new Council comes in because if you were sitting here as a new council person and you walked in and got slapped in the face with this and you had x amount of people pissed off at you before you even get sworn in so why don't we just hold off nobody's going to we're not going to go broke we'll just continue to pay the bills and just let well enough alone cuz there an all Irishman who once said if it ain't broken don't fix it well we've had more important things that are broke that we're not fixing just travel up and down some of our roads thank you for your comment next speaker please please Marilyn Mack the F section I've been here for 12 and A2 years this is really appalling you all because it's very obvious that that was worded to confuse people so it's misleading that really infuriates me shouldn't try to do that to people and you want it to pass because that's your answer to do the infrastructure you know we could had money for the infrastructure if you would ask for it Priority wise on the money that you asked from the state this year instead of it going to the West End I guess you think we forget everything we don't do you all understand what the definition is a fiscal malfeasance our tax dollarss pay for everything thing here they pay your salaries you're supposed to be working for us we can we cannot eat tennis balls we can't drink tennis balls we need water even if you did the water treatment plan right now which we don't have the money for it that you say we don't have the money for it which I kind of really question that um it wouldn't even be in place in time to save us from this running out of water do you all know that with the amount of houses that are right now on the books to be built by the this time next year we're going to be in serious trouble so y'all need to find out a different way and know this Council should never get to vote whether or not there's going to be bonds allowed that should come from the residents and the neighbors because that's who's going to pay for it you can't keep operating this municipality government in this manner again it's tax dollars I don't care if it's grant money I don't care if it's Federal money state local whatever came from a taxpayer you guys can't think of ways to save money cut some some of this staff why do we have all these media people running around doing news broadcasts I've never seen that in my life and I worked for the government for 26 years why do we have those people I don't understand it C some of these salaries there's so many people here that are overpaid and underqualified by the way it's ridiculous and thirdly lastly or whatever this procurement office in 12 and a half years has never saved one copper penny for tax dollars here and that's what they're required to do but yet you're fully staffed there's so many answers that are not being done here it's ridiculous next hey please let's give each speaker his time please mayor Dennis McDonald um in the back room I standing there and I'm listening to all this I I one question just comes to my mind is is that what part of being voted out of office by the public don't you guys understand okay may honestly I don't I honestly I don't get M McDonald I don't want to adjourn the meeting until we have decorum so please so continue the everybody is upset here they don't want decisions made by the remainder of this lame duck Council okay we've had Kathy heider resign and I think Kathy Haider really saved herself this is painful what's going on okay maybe that's the reason why she resigned you know I um I I hear people say that you need more money okay as you know I've been around in Palm Coast for a good number of years okay 20 so what I like to let you know is is that we're talking about well we need money for infrastructure we need money for INF structure and water and sewer okay you had an Enterprise fund at one time that was a cash cow this former staff not not the present staff but the former staff and the former Council used that okay is a piggy bank okay for millions of dollars we tracked it we sat with Chris the the guy who was your um uh you know Financial guy here who ran the the dollars for the city we found it all there were millions of dollars that got moved out okay there were um loans that were made to the city and never repaid so and I'm not trying to put that on on your backs it's not but the city made some really bad moves before and now it the chickens are coming home to roost and so all I'm saying here is you're in a very bad situation you cannot make this thing better okay take it off the table and move on and be gone in the end of November thank you thank you for your comment any other speakers please please please please let let the speakers come forward Miss Michael of the w section I just have a question I don't know how long your pensions are for after you leave the council or when you quit working for the city of Palm Coast but I had to work over 20 years to get my pension I think we can save money by only giving you a pension for the amount of years that you worked instead of giving you a lifelong pension we'd be saving a lot of money if all the employees have a lifelong pension and you only work a couple years or four years and not even fulltime I had to work full-time over 20 years get mine so we can save money by putting that pension back into the city next speaker please let me just clarify we don't get a pension up here there's no pension for us just so you know let the speaker please go ahead hi there my name is lesie Johnson and I'm from the P section I just I'm not going to add or anything to what others have said I think you've heard it but I do have a question and I've heard it come from Miss pontier twice tonight what does it it take to make this type of referendum pass Miss pontieri mentioned earlier a super majority can you please clarify what this super majority is in terms of how many votes or percentage you say four four votes that's a super majority I think you're comuting the two things I'm sorry there's an alarm that keeps going on and it's just it's very very distracting all if you couldn't hear it back so ask your question again what makes a super majority four votes yeah I I I miss pontier is correct when we get to final discussion maybe miss pontier you can address that okay go ahead okay so that's that's really the only question that I had so if this thing passes by four votes no or we'll address it after to the public comment thank you James D real quick I think the language you modified is very good uh it could be still confusing to some people however I think if you're going to knock this off the ballot maybe keep that language in place so that if they go to the next Council they don't have to go back to the original and start all over they can build on what you've already proposed you if you know say so and uh yeah we do need money for infrastructure so here A B I don't know what to do what we to balance here but we don't need a sports Stadium we need infrastructure and keep that language so the next Council can build on that where they have to modify thank you for your comment next speaker please I do have a question here uh I believe that our utility is an Enterprise and the utility has been getting bonds I'm correct without the referendum of the people uh the utility got millions in bonds since uh we uh Incorporated of course it was used as a cash cow I've been here all these years and I I I should know about that that we are paying the price because the reserves were not properly used for what they were intended and now we need reserves and we don't have them but I believe that the utility Enterprise because uh conselman poner is concerned about that typee of utility which I I I am concerned as well because there here was Mr Flanagan telling us warning us what was coming to us and what could have a big breakup and we don't have the funds a few months ago and I think I don't see him anymore unfortunately and he had the experience and I don't know why he's not with us anymore uh just because he was saying maybe warning us that we can have a major situ situation if we don't have the fund and I do agree with Miss ponier that we need those funds but do I believe that the utility unless the utility is bonded out the utility can get its own bonds because it's an Enterprise an individual Enterprise and if that is the case then the only monies we might need are for roads uh that uh consan Point J says because unless the utility is totally bonded out I don't know thank you for your comment any other uh comments at this time all right I again no one time three minutes are there any other speakers all right with that I'll come back to the deis uh if I if I could could could you just clarify because there was trouble hearing in the back about the process of a referendum vote versus a super majority so there's a clarification yeah Miss Johnson the super majority vote was for the resolution that I proposed that if the charter Amendment does pass we as Council enter into a resolution where we need a super majority vote to go over a certain dollar amount so it would take four out of five of us to that just puts safeguards on the amount that we can borrow for in the length of time so that was if the charter Amendment passes via the election which is has nothing to do with the super majority then we as Council would have a safeguard for you all and would require four out of five votes in in order to borrow over a certain amount of money that's that's what that was very good um any final comments before I call the vote again the motion though we're not at the point where what you're suggesting we're not anywhere near there the motion here is still to remove the motion's been made and it's recorded and and seconded yes it has okay if there's any final discussion I'm trying to have that discussion you keep interrupting me well you're repeating what we've already done well that's too bad you'll have to listen oh GE look the motion here is to remove this from the ballot because the language is confusing it's dishonest and it's deceitful and I want to be very clear on that miss pontier you don't like the language either and you even have said that if we could rewrite this language to put it on the ballot you would love to do that but we don't have time according to our attorney so I believe the the responsible thing to do is pull this off the ballot now let the next Council deal with it and we only have to wait two short years to put it on a ballot the next election and if it's explain properly to folks and what it's for and if it's honestly explained there's a chance you could vote on it if you think it would help with our infrastructure thank so that is why I am saying we need to pull this okay you made the motion councilwoman pontier any final discussion no thank you councilman Kus any final discussion my only comment is if this failed on the November ballot that doesn't preempt the future Council for putting on a ballot as well right yeah I'm uh Council mlus I'm going to defer to council I believe it's that's your correct yes that is correct okay understood that was my only comment and also I'm term limited there was a lot of talk out there about getting voted out but four years ago when I got elected we knew this was my last T ra so thank you very much very good all right with that um uh I'll have the clerk uh roll call vote please vice mayor Dano yes council member kuus no council member pontier yes mayor alen no the motion does not have a majority all right we now move to um you have one more comment on public comment go Ahad you can okay um so I do want to address the appointment of Miss haider's seat you all saw an example of why we need that seat just now sorry I and I I I don't mean to interrupt I don't think the audience understands so in a tie vote the motion so in a TI vote it does not pass correct okay now please continue I'm sorry to interrupt you so so Mr so Council and a TI vote the motion does not pass does not okay um Mr Webb I believe you asked if we could um wait for the new Council to be seated in order to appoint somebody you all literally just saw an example of why we need somebody in that seat tomorrow we need somebody in that seat immediately because when you have a 2 two vote like this motions don't pass they fail um so I understand the concern about wanting to get somebody in here um that is chosen by the new Council but I have um two really big concerns with that one in order for the new Council to seat that person they would have to do it pretty immediately and it really doesn't give them a lot of time to vet the applicants whereas our schedule that we've agreed upon up here not only gives us time to vet the applicants but it also gives the public I think three public hearings two night public hearings to make comment and to give us feedback their thoughts Etc so we're trying to make that as much as I've said a democratic process as possible but more importantly than that this will allow us to get somebody in that seat um I think six to eight weeks sooner and we need somebody in that seat as soon as possible thank you for your comments we now move to uh letter F on the agenda which are minutes I'm going to ask for a motion to approve the minutes of the city council business meeting held on August the 27th 2024 vice mayor has made the motion to approve second councilwoman pontier has seconded all in favor please signify by saying I I are there any opposed the motion pass CL have the cour thank you we now move to letter G on your agenda which would be ordinances of the first read so Council if you would read the uh G um five into the record for me please ordinance 2024 dxx amending city of Palm Coast ordinances chapter 17 Community Development as amended to add Article 5 short-term vacation rentals who's going to lead the uh the read Mr dorenzo okay good evening mayor city council Jason D Lorenzo chief of staff and Barbara grman uh code enforcement manager and um as you've requested uh we have with Council worked on a short-term rental ordinance um this is was originally scheduled to go next week at a workshop and you accelerated the process um uh based on some comments from the residents but with that I ask that you please uh think about policy here we definitely need some policy direction there's going to be some questions I have some slides towards the end we're going to need some help with usually we'd work through this at a workshop but this is first reading and we can make those adjustments before it comes back to you for a second read okay so um this is the intent of the ordinance it's to uh create a short-term vacation rental license that includes safe safety and operational requirements stand for parking and solid waste uh lure uh requirements and um uh posting at the uh at the home itself and administration penalties and enforcement and an effective date starting with the uh requirements for um certification you you the operator will require to submit a sample lease that includes the names and ages of uh the occupants um the tag numbers for all vehicles the maximum occupancy determination that is something we will review for um the maximum number of parking spaces the um the 24-hour contact uh by the owner property manager or secondary contact an acknowledgement by affidavit that um we will have the ability to inspect the home and also an acknowledgement um of the code of ordinances and the maximum sound levels allowed in the ordinance continuing uh there has to be a designation of duties of a responsible party and that person has to be able to respond to routine inspections non-routine inspections and complaints and immediate problems they have to be available 24 hours a day 7 days a week uh respond in less than 2 hours and be available for weekly compliance monitoring should it be necessary for the city uh there's also um licensing and fee requirements related to dbpr and the Department of Revenue um sexual offender and Predator compliance um for background checks and advertising requirements as well uh the ordinance proposes that a registration will be valid for 12 months and if there's any change to the occupancy or if it's uh found that there has been a change to the occupancy a new application will have to be completed and um when it comes to Renewal after those 12 months the city shall consider the violation history and shall not review if there's outstanding violations fines or leans uh as I mentioned earlier we've also included use and occup occupancy standards some life safety requirements like um Swimming Pool Spa and hot tub safety to meet the Florida building code smok and carbon monoxide detection requirements in the Florida building code uh fire extinguisher and emergency lighting requirements as well to make sure that the operations are safe um we have proposed a Mac maximum occupancy and this is where we're going to need some hot policy help of two per habitable space with a maximum of 12 I'll describe that for you if you have a uh three-bedroom home that would be two per habitable space so two two per sleeping room so that' be six and then um the definition of habitable space includes uh the ability to exit directly out of the building without passing through another room so if obviously um a living room could count as uh two more persons as well if the house had a family room with direct out access uh egress to the outside that could be considered as two as as well so I'll I'll repeat let's say if you had a three-bedroom home with a family room that uh exited directly outside and a great room or living room that um exited directly outside you could have um two four six for the sleeping rooms two for the family room and two for the great room for a total of 10 if it was a four bedroom you could get to 12 we're proposing a Max of 12 if it's a um a two-bedroom then you're looking at four plus it's like likely not going to have a family room and a smaller unit like that so you would have uh two for each bedroom and then two more for the living uh room as long as it exited directly uh outside um we have limited the parking requirements to only in the driveway we've excluded the garage since uh in Florida we don't have attics people generally store stuff in uh their garage and so uh um not all operators may have it the same but if you've ever rented a short-term rental on your own uh they often have the owner's uh items are locked up in the garage or there's items to use bicycles or other recreational um equipment is in the garage so uh we decided that we would just not count the garage for parking at all and uh limited directly to parking in the driveway and you will remember that we don't allow on street parking so the parking limit would be limited to the size of the driveway um we also have some requirements for solid waste uh including the number of containers required based on occupancy uh that they have covers and that the pickup schedule is posted um in the uh unit itself there is a set of postings that'll be required to either be on the door or on the refrigerator which includes the uh name address and phone number of the owner or property manager the maximum occupancy of the unit the maximum number of vehicles that can be parked uh an evacuation map uh the location of the nearest hospital um uh a uh reference to our quiet hours or sound level limits as they're uh called in the code and the days for trash pickup and Recycling and um also some Canal boating regulations uh related to um the a age requirements for voting and the no wake in our canals for remedies in and enforcement it's our goal to have um the properties remain in compliance uh the first time uh issue will um we'll have a warning uh beyond that uh code enfor the code enforcement board and chapter 162 will be used to prosecute uh issues and um have violations hold hearings and assess fines related to the code and of course we will use all other remedies as needed if we have additional uh issues we did meet with um some uh resident stakeholders two times during this uh process and there were a couple items that we um we were not able to um include at this time but a couple of them are um policy uh action items and a couple of them are state law so uh they asked us to exclude recreational trailers from the driveways and to add additional lighting regulations and trailers and lights are already in uh requirements are already in our code uh we didn't find it necessary to add another set of regulations when we already have them in place um having a cap on the number of rentals under a single ownership in other words one owner that owns many of them um and also a limit based on location and proximity to each other we worked with legal counsel and they were determined to not be consistent with state law those two requests we also um uh not not at our own request but we were requested to have a meeting with um some uh stakeholders of operators and uh they provided a list that we worked through um but these were the ones that um that we weren't able to accommodate at this time but we need policy help with and um these are for reference uh right in the section number in the um uh in the ordinance for you so um they've asked uh to allow operators that use certain platforms to provide a terms of service instead of a sample lease um so um I'm not very familiar with this but apparently um the terms of service covers a lot of the items uh if uh let me back up if an operator uses one of the common platforms they have to agree to a terms of service the terms of service covers a lot of the issues that we are requesting in the certification related to the sample lease um but not all of them they asked uh um that um we would accept if the operator was using that that platform one of those platforms that we would accept the terms of service we requested a a set of those terms of services to review I'm not sure um Mr Duffy if you received it today or not okay so we haven't had an opportunity to review uh and compare what a terms of service looks like compared to a sample um lease they also asked that we um um expand the designation of the responsible party U when it comes to um satisfying the weekly monitoring requirement um how it was described to us is that cleaning personnel are on site imediately following a rental it's required by the platform that cleaning occur and um as part of the monitoring could the responsible party be expanded Beyond one and include other folks that would be identified that we could make contact with in case we needed to um meet with them for a monitoring uh concern um in uh 1768 A5 and6 which is related to licensing under dbpr and the Department of Revenue they would like to add if applicable to the licensing requirements they explain to us that the platform doesn't allow uh operators that rent out a single room to use the platform uh and that also dbpr um they claim we're asking for proof uh will not issue a license to an individual that just wishes to rent out a room so we have a little bit of a Divergence here uh between a rental of an entire uh unit compared to a room they suggested that if we added if applicable to those two sections that depending on what they fell under it would be covered so if they were just renting a room in dbpr could not provide a license for that then the if applicable would would cover that because they would not be able to turn that into us um moving on um they asked if we could provide a clear explanation explanation of advertising requirements we asked for some uh sample language from other ordinances um apparently Indian Rocks Beach uh in their ordinance uh as we've proposed it it says um you know you have to your advertising has to be consistent with what you have on your certification on on your um you know on what's approved by the city they they make it uh the Indian Rocks Beach ordinance makes it a little bit clearer but we haven't seen that language yet to compare to ours um they also requested that we delete the requirements for battery powered emergency lighting because they said it would be too onerous because they would have to hire an electrical contractor to install that staff does not agree that that's a good idea we prefer to keep that safety feature in place um and uh allow an opt out for certain platforms that perform background checks as part of the platform application process this relates to the sexual predator section of the ordinance um it was described to us that users of the every user of the platform um has a they conduct a background check either if you're on the operator side or the renter uh side and um so if you could opt out of um having to provide the sexual um Predator background check um if you were using this platform because it would already be covered they also um mentioned another item which I I I certainly didn't contemplate is that International renters we would not be able to um get a um a background check done uh on an international renter because that goes through interpole and not the FBI I I believe or whatever database the Sheriff's Office uses um so those were the items that were um brought to our attention via The Operators um through one of the platform providers uh so um city council I'm just going to move to the next slide which has a couple action items but I encourage you that we can move back to the other two kind of unresolved slides as well if it's easier for you but um we want to conf confirm with city council the maximum occupancy if you agree uh the two per sleeping and habitable space with maximum of 12 is uh what you desire um we will have to bring a fee resolution back with the second reading um the fees we are proposing are consistent with Flagler County um $400 for the initial reeven uh registration and $200 from renewal there's some also there are also some lower fees for if there's a change or um if you have to make any changes I believe they're $50 but we'll bring a fee resolution back to you once you provide us a little bit more guidance on what your expectations are uh for fees and then I just left it at other concerns here and we can move between those slides and that is the presentation so just just quickly um did you reference the impact on U your code staff if first of all let me say this I think city council has indicated because that's a a compilation of all of the items that city council had uh brought forward to you each of us with different parts of them so is there any reference to what this would do or cost in terms of Code Enforcement um because there I mean there are more than dozens of things to watch over times hundreds of units right yes sir um thank you for the question um starting with the um with the start date of February um we need we'll need time to build a process we'll need time to U build the the applications and we'll need time for our existing short-term rental uh operators to come into compliance is it is it considered in the current budget yes and that was step two I was going to say is that you have contemplated adding a uh another code officer um that would help us um manage the additional workload and I do have just one more question um Can this if city council is in favor of all of these options providing you with the policy decisions that you need does the state have the ability to usurp or turn this backwards at its choosing in in the next leg legislative session um the um we worked directly with Council to make sure that we have a legally defensible ordinance so as far as I know uh it's consistent with state law I don't know if Marcus wants to add anything so yeah is is legal as written as drafted as instructed by this legal today that's not what I'm asking I'm asking about in the next for a future session if a future session comes in and a just like it was previously and decides like Hey we're going to Annex all things this is how it's going to be yes there's a possibility in that scenario that our law could go away so and here's where I'm getting to in in in advance of building up your staff um is there a likelihood will will our moving forward with this help us fight the state's usurpation of all of these we we'll call them uh hurdles uh mayor that's that's a good question um as you know um previous state legislation used a 2011 uh date uh previously if you they grandfathered uh ordinances that were approved previous to 2011 I think it would really depend on what the state did moving forward so the sooner we put in into play based on history the better chance we have of being grandfathered in with this sir um if I could just ask one other question um can you give me a count on how many local Palm Coast residents or imp would be impacted by this that own uh properties that they do we have any feel for that um we we believe uh through working with Flagler County who um manages um the the um registry that there are approximately 275 they fluctuate by about 10 to 20 monthly either dropping off or or coming on but it's somewhere around a point of reference but your question was flago County residents and I don't know how many are owned locally or not okay fair enough and then just because of the the amount of detail and I'm going to city council this would you consider each city council person doing an interview with staff to give them the policy um in other words to debate all of this policy is is is complicated um would you would you consider that make your comments side of course but being interviewed by um by the team on what your preference would be on each line item that he just went through of course always yeah um cuz I mean for us to to decide how many people per room without sitting down and having a legitimate discussion is sort of uh you know go ahead I just want to make sure I understand the request so are you are you suggesting we give our thoughts tonight from the Das but then actually meet with staff to go through it more specifically and then they come back and bring to us what the perceived in other words so staff is asking asking for some specific spe Al specific policy Direction what I'm asking is is each of us were to meet with staff to offer them that specific policy Direction They consolidate it and bring it back to us or can we do it at a workshop or or that if you want add another I'm throwing I'm not we want to do it sooner than later either way is fine uh yeah I think the I think the goal and I I correct me mayor if I'm misspeaking but I think the goal was to get this done quickly and adding that Workshop in would slow it down so I mean I'm happy to meet with staff and before it comes up for a second read but then if we meant separately we're all putting our two cents in separately and they come back and say well you want this and they you want that and he want well but consolidate and remember I think the and the the the theme the overriding theme here you want to get it done before the end of this year because if there's a grandfathering year you do not want it to go into the next get our next Workshop is what I'm asking unlikely I think it really needs to be done on a I mean well my opinion is there's a lot of conversation here I don't know how yall feel city manager I mean just to you know give transparency to the public it is beneficial for you guys to work through these policy decisions um from the deis instead of us going oneon-one to Vice mayor's Point okay you know building that consensus you know we need to hear it from you collectively uh from the de I don't think it would take us that long honestly to go through this and so bang bang bang we have a workshop on the 10th so it would be Workshop then presumably okay I think we could do it rather quickly that way so just trying to satisfy the Public's request and the action that you gave staff you wanted us to prepare it for tonight as an ordinance first reading I mean we're prepared to seek your direction now so that it can make it into the ordinance second read on September 17th and then it'll give staff enough time to build the um process involved okay I appreciate that are you prepared to make a decision on the limit number of policy items that the staff has requested I am I am too yeah okay Mr clus councilman Kus are you good to go with the limited number of policy uh AB okay so why don't you go lead us Mr dorenzo okay um would you like me to start here let let's start here and then we'll work backwards from there okay so um the are you comfortable with the maximum occupancy vice mayor I'm fine okay I'm not so I'm not going to ask you what you're going to base it on but but okay go ahead that's what I was trying to avoid just picking a number out of the air yeah so I well I'm not just picking a number out of the out of the air um I would suggest we do two people per sleeping space for a maximum of 10 because habitable space that has an exterior door could be a kitchen it could be a living room um so it it really could add up here so my suggestion would be two per sleeping space take out the habitable space with the maximum of 10 that's just my suggestion and just my question okay please come on let us get through this my question is um do you have to have a uh like a bathroom facility uh in proximity or just sleeping space can be wherever it is well they Define sleeping space as basically a bedroom I mean it's a bedroom so well wait that's that's not the way I understood it did you not include living room yeah for habitable for habitable but also we we also put um limitations on it and I'll I'll read it for you okay um habitable space means a space in a building for living sleeping eating or cooking bathrooms toilet rooms closets Halls screens Screen Enclosures sun rooms sunro categories are defined in the Florida building code storage utility spaces garages and similar areas are not considered habitable spaces council is that easily challenged by um um Property Owners those definitions or are they clear enough so what I don't want to do I don't want to end up with a million challenges to these definitions mayor so when to answer your question Mr Mayor uh when working with staff we looked at other ordinances we always look and we also looked at the Florida building code so that's what this is drafted off of so so you feel comfortable they could be defended okay yes mayor this habitable space definition is from the Florida building code okay councilman clus comment yeah I so right now in The Proposal the maximum amount of occup is 12 is that correct yep 12 um the only I understand where council pontier is coming from my only rebuke would be you know a living area that has a pull out cou or things like that but I think the expanded Definition of habitable space not including all those things kind of uh wholly defines it but I think the bigger question here is do we want to set the maximum occupancy to 12 vers 10 I'm sorry I I you broke up at the end to what or 12 I think the real question here is whether we set the maximum occupancy to 12 or 10 I think council members all right council [Music] members go ahead oh I'm sorry I didn't know you were waiting on me um I was waiting on I mean if we want to keep habitable space okay I I just think the maximum should be 10 um 10 is a lot of people to put in one of our residential units here in in Palm Coast so I would say 10 should be now what I'm what I'm curious about is is this defensible with the Bert Harris act because the language that I've seen in order to defend that is two per sleeping room plus two for maximum of 10 um now if the language you think is defensible as is great um but I do know that that specific language has been challenged and the cities have prevailed and for the record I'm I'm okay with going to a maximum occupants of 10 and I think the other issues that we're talking about right now with the bird Harris act and all these things relying on Def of these spaces I think the bigger question is just 12 vers 10 right and I'm okay with 10 can can you be more specific are you talking about habitable or sleeping me habitable because I I think a yep absolutely does that include children I mean like like a newborn baby or something you know I'm just asking two parents and a child an air M for the children okay hold on uh staff can are you able to answer that question yeah um as written mayor it doesn't it's regardless of age um however that that did come up in our conversation with one of the platform operators that um some communities set a um an age limit where they don't count those children no discussion two parents and a baby hey excuse me sir sir please all right I'll get we'll get the public comment okay we'll get the public comment uh Jason what was the age that the platform vendors uh recommended as far as like you know definition of a person vers not was it super low I'm just curious I don't really support uh allowing anyone under the under any age to not be included into this amount but I'm just curious what that age was council member clus um I think I don't think it's consistent from ordinance to ordinance yeah so I I can add a little bit on that mayor that's okay uh like there are ordinances out there that they do sometime it's uh three and below or Five Below but it is there's no consensus on that it depends on the ordinance all right so we need to move forward with consensus uh councilman pontier any uh where are you at I mean I think we make it very simple two per sleeping inhabitable space with a maximum of 10 Council vice mayor yeah I'm good with that as long as do and I don't know the answer to this do we have any larger homes that are involved that that can hold you know that have six bedrooms or eight bedrooms or you know I don't know I don't know yeah but that's that's part of the formula right part well but you still have the max oh you have the max yeah yeah you're right you're right you're right are residents these are residential homes these are residential homes within neighborhoods I'm I understand that there might be some larger homes but I'm sticking firm on this uh we have to be mindful of the property owner's rights across the board and there are there are some policies in here that I am going to be in favor of that the res of the rest of our residents are probably not going to be in favor of but this one I think we need to hold for because I think I think the maximum of 10 is going to eliminate a lot of other issues we're seeing including the exuberant amount of trash that these that these um Str strs create and the parking issues that they create so I think that limiting it to 10 will take care of a lot of the other issues we're seeing well the parking issues are certainly a good point and the trash is too so I'm good with it councilman clus 12 or 10 I'm okay with 10 I think that's completely fine as far as the uh parking that's my only other concern when I went over um our packet essentially I was curious whether a recreational trailer includes a boat trailer or a Jet Ski trailer but I think that's an outcome SL you have consensus on 10 yes sir thank you um moving on the proposed registration fees like I mentioned they're consistent with Flagler County but you could set that fee um where you like comments uh can we adjust it for inflation um have it adjust automatically correct uh without bringing back the fee resolution correct I think it should I mean if you think about a normal lease usually they have a 10% worked in increase year after year um so rather than have I mean we we don't want to be in the situation where 5 10 years from now we're opening this back up just because the fees are outdated so I would say we do a rush an adjusted CPI year after year makes sense because our our expenses are going to increase well and you know the lease is going to go up too so that's makes sense vice mayor you AG with that yeah I'm good uh councilman Kus uh adjusted for uh um for inflation can you hear me yep yep I'm sorry I had I would say I have no problem with adjusting for inflation but are there other examples where so 400 and 200 is great but I don't think that's going to get us anywhere near being able to fund an additional um officer for our code enforcement but do you have any other examples of different fee structures outside of flag count I mean you can read uh councilman clus you you know this can be Revisited the fee structure how often every year right it yes it could be it's just going to be a resolution so yes it could be adjusted it could be adjusted I mean I think putting index Mak sense are there are there other cities and counties that are charging a $1,000 registration fee uh that that's really my question is this predicted to be you know the norm because for $400 $200 if we're if we're missing out on money here that's going to be funding these the policing of these sprs I don't want to be in that situation it it it just depends on the location okay U mayor and if I can um we can a resolution for the fee structure would be outside of the ordinance we could prepare that for you for the ordinance second read and go through that Fe we maximize the the revenue produced if if Council should agree to that yes we can provide that cost benefit analysis I think that would be good sufficient yes and we can research some other communities as well and bring it back with the fee resolution you want to wind it back yes uh these were the you want to take these next or the other ones these next okay the other ones are more difficult um so exclusion of the recreational trailer parked in driveway so we already have um code requirements related to trailers um we were concerned about having two different sets of codes um for folks in the neighborhood how come you know why is this treated differently than that um that's why so uh you're looking for Conformity we looking for Conformity mhm vice mayor Conformity yeah your n nay you want them wait wait you want to be letting vacation people have trailers or not their neighbors The Neighbors The Neighbors do not the neighbors do not and the parking becomes the problem again so you're not in favor yeah because and again you had mentioned boats too yeah yeah and and look okay this is Florida I love boats you know I'm I'm actually would like to keep my boat in my driveway if I could but uh right I mean that's something a future Council I hope will take a look at but um but you get the trailer in there you get the boat in there you get how many cars if you've got what you five cars all that it's a little too much okay councilwoman um yeah I think that we need to exclude recreational trailers um from the Str strs um I also think though that they should be able to park in the garage it's up it should be up to the owner whether or not they want to store things in their garage or they want to allow their renters to park in their garage I mean I I know I've I've rented Str strs before where they give you the garage code and you can park in the garage so just because they're related is why I bring it up um but yeah I'm with you I think we should exclude recreational trailers for Str strs councilman Kus we're talking about the um recreational trailers should they be allowed or not allowed the current code for the neighborhood does not allow them no we do allow it they do we do allow it for 3 days I'm sorry all right I'm sorry they do for three days oh interesting but I I think that we should not have any more allowances for the short-term rentals than what the neighborhood is currently perform to okay so if I'm understanding everyone correctly we have consensus I think we do okay uh may can I just add one thing and if you guys want to keep moving on fine but just point information so right now as written the the ordinance would allow boats recre in the driveway without drop uh blocking any sidewalks and without blocking the road or anything like that they only be on the Str str's property in the driveway which would not violate any ordinance right now but also it would only be allowed to be there for the 3 days that's requirement under our current group three days which makes it which makes it consistent with the the current ordinance yes so I just wanted to make sure that was out there if you guys still want to move forward that's okay but but we can change this can do what we want to do here just for the Str strs right now yeah you can yes I I hesitate with that because you could be setting yourself up there for some type of litigation of pick then we be creating more work for you well I mean yeah I'm H I'm happy to always do more work for you uh Vice but I'm just it wouldn't it would not be good for me not to sit here and say it could look like that you're picking them out possibly discriminating them we are picking them out so so here's here's an alternative suggestion and you tell me Council if this will help alleviate because I don't want us spending money on defending lawsuits um I think what's been expressed to me from our residents is that when we when when renters are in there they have their boat trailer for three days and then there's turnover right so those current renters leave new renters come in so technically that 3 days has ended and another 3 days has began so now we just have this continuous onslaught of 3-day allowance pursuant to the code so could we maybe say that there there shall not be trailers for more than 72 hours regardless of the owner in other words you can't have back to back to back people coming in with trailers or no more than you know 70 trailers there for 72h hour period um over a 7-Day period something to that effect again I'm just trying to see I I don't want us to be how would you even enforce it I'm just it's almost it's self curing people in addition to the 10 people in the house are there four people in the trailer or two and does that does that continue on I don't know no so the yeah there's not anybody in the trailer sleeping or living I I think sometimes we might find ourselves in a situation where we might have to fight a legal battle that's why we have legal counsil and and if we're trying to do the right thing here then I think if we have to fight a battle down the road then we fight the [Applause] battle so I think your point is well taken when you start adding the uh the cars so you're taking up a certain and I'm not counsil but one of your points would be you are picking this group out separately because that property already has more cars than neighboring properties so it's already different yeah and you're you're also you're it could be an argument you're penalizing them because they are an SDR y understood okay okay well I don't look at it as a penalty I look at it as there's no way for us to regulate the 72-hour period if we don't do this I mean to to mayor's to mayor's Point how do we regulate the 72 hours um you know if we just have back to back to back three-day rentals with trailers it's just not it's not practicable so I think that I think it's defensible I I just wanted to throw out the alternative so councilman CL just one more time um I need to know whether you are in favor or not are you in favor of excluding trailers uh in favor of excluding trailers it's almost impossible to regulate them the same way that we regulate the current neighborhood because the turnover so I'm almost in favor of not allowing trailers in totality but is that allowable from what I hear from Council I don't think it is um but if Council says you know not allowing trailers because then we would be seen as highlighting the sdrs for this coordinates that also not advisable so I'm not uh to clarify I'm not saying that's not allowed I'm just trying to be on the offensive and be prepared down the road if someone does try to pick apart this ordinance if Council from this dayas does want to move forward uh with uh not allowing trailers we can write that in there just since we're having this discussion wanted to bring it up to you hold on a second hold on councilman clus hold on one second hold on I apologize councilman I didn't realize you were you had another question I I was just asking Council if we could do some casea research on that councilman Kus go ahead oh perfect also I would just say potentially what we do is we offer them you know hey drop your uh boat in the canal get your trailer out of there we say hey park it we find somewhere to say you can park your trailers here here are the available locations to park these trailers while you're enjoying top coast but as long as whatever Recreation vehicle that they dropped off is you know not in the front yard of these Str strs I think that would probably that's either allowing them or not okay I got it um I think we have consensus um staff do you have uh sufficient policy Direction on this item yes sir okay and um we will talk about the no garage our our thinking there was that um we're going to be asked to provide a certification that tells the number of parking spaces if we include the garage that's something that can change that we would be have a hard time um inspecting or realizing uh until some period of time do we need a micromanage on that level I mean do we really care whether or not there's a g a car in the garage it's out of sight it's not it's clearly not bothering anybody I think m c doesn't have the ability to look inside the garage anyway yeah I I I see that part too right if as long as we say all the you know you can you can only use on-site parking which includes the garage and the driveway I think it was just because there's an advertisement that goes along with this right so we're we're going to be asked to provide a certification that certification is going to be developed to use the advertising we can't tell you the number of parking spaces if the number of parking spaces change what I can tell you is in in a um in a 40t driveway uh with a two-car garage you can park four cars so why don't we can we word it somehow where it says you know four parking spaces excluding any garage space there's got to be a way to word this oh for the adverti you for the advertis yeah we'll that's what I'm saying we'll we'll work on it okay yeah we understand what you're saying and we'll we'll have to work we may need to change another portion of the ordinance to achieve that because one part is dependent on the other okay so we we can clean that up though and uh and figure that out um okay um did you have any questions on or want clarification for Mr Duffy on the next to the cap and on the location or proximity to each other I have none okay those are the ones I described as um would would constitute a limit under State Statute right okay okay and again um we were contacted on Friday and we met with these folks today so I apologize for not having more information than this um the terms of service rather than a sample lease I think if you'll give us time to receive that terms of service we could provide more information um at your next meeting or via or via email unless you have strong thoughts on it now it's fine uh I don't know what the terms of service say so I don't know you know okay it's 100 10 pages barara tells me uh allowing the responsible party to designate more than one person to satisfy the weekly monitoring requirement that doesn't seem um difficult I think we can Define that if you are okay with that I think that's actually better if we have like maybe up to three people in case the first one doesn't pick up or I mean to me that just makes good sense I don't know what you all think about that I I personally I'd rather see it 247 as a opposed to designating the number of individuals that they would be responsible for responding on a 247 basis right but I mean I'm saying that if they could list up to three people that way there's not just if there in other words if we call that one person they don't pick up I mean have they skirted their their liability at that point then we can go okay this is the second person we would call almost like a trickle down just add we do have written there it's they're supposed to be available 24/7 7 days a week within 2 hours be able to fix the problem right okay and um we currently we do allow them to designate a second um but this would expand it uh beyond that I don't have an issue with that all right councilman Kus no issue and I mean I hate to bring it up but what if you're going to get one of those apps that you're texting a uh AI does that count as a person or not do we need to be clear about that because I'm I could see that already can the AI respond in two hours well no but what you're calling into is not a person no I know but they still they still have the duty to to take action in two hours pursuing to the ordinance so so regardless of whether it's AI or an answering machine right I mean they have con yeah okay all right all right you have consensus okay we will confirm that it says that you I'm looking for it real fast but uh that they have to be able to respond to the property within uh even better I suppose to yes we look into respond right we'll make sure we we have that in there okay um the next one was related to lure by dbpr and the Department of Revenue and I don't know I I try to I'm sorry I'm sorry just to go back real quickly so they have to respond okay so who are they responding to how will you know or how will the neighbor know or how will the complaint know uh during the day uh well when 247 right right right when when uh during the day will be code enforcement see if you can't work that in right cuz if we're the only ones that know and the people that are being feel they're being harmed are not even made aware of what you're doing you can understand my concern okay yeah sorry go ahead um the next one was related to DBP uh dbpr division of um Business and Professional Regulation and the Department of Revenue and lure and the um adding if applicable I don't know Marcus if you thought I was gave a good description of the concern or not yeah so their concerns saying that if someone was had a one bedroom uh that there wouldn't be a license I looked at the code uh my interpret the code it says that it's not required uh doesn't say anything that they wouldn't give them a license up to this dis it's uh it's up to you I did reach out to the the dbpr I couldn't get a hold of anyone just to get clarification but when I reviewed the code it didn't say anything that they would not give a license and that that is a common thing that I got from when I was researching other ordinances they had that in there uh but if the Das wants to say if applicable but um that's fine too so um mayor if I may um we have um Barbara just handed me a um question that was asked of dbpr does the rental of individual beds or bedrooms in a personal residence require DBP uh B dbpr vacation rental license and the response is no renting uh renting use of a bed or single room or rooms other than the whole unit is not classified as public lodging and would not require a license from dbpr which is exactly what Marcus just said um would not require now the question is would they issue if you asked for one that's what we don't know the answer to I think we need to wait on that answer before we but I I mean I don't like putting if if applicable if anything I would say we we exclude specifically just that one rental of a bedroom and bathroom um but I would I would rather wait on an answer excuse me from dbpr I agree okay um provide a clear explanation of advertising coun I'm sorry councilman Kus are you good with that yep I'm good with that that's okay go ahead Jason all right in um in 17689 under advertising we currently have any advertising of the short-term vacation rental unit shall conform to information included in the short-term vacation rental certificate and Property Owners approval um particularly as this pertains to ma maximum occupancy so the point here is that they would only advertise for what they are approved for so developing that certification is going to be important because that's what they they're going to going to advertise off of the question here was could we Define it better I think we could um if you would like us to if you think that covers it you can only this is how I read it you can only advertise to what has been certified by the city I think that's reasonable yeah I agree I agree cman glus very reasonable so no changes okay and then um you you already heard us say we do not think that we should delete the requirements for battery powered emergency lighting basically this is you know um where there're it's an exit lamp that is hardwired into the home and if there's a loss of power then the spotlights come on but otherwise it's an illuminated uh lamp um it's um you know an illuminated exit now that's a you're you're picking them out again the Str strs right I mean it's a safety concern I don't because I look at this as any other a we're not the only ordinance that would have that so I didn't I wasn't originat with that good enough I'm good with it no I I think we should keep it particular with the Hurricanes I agree specifically because of the Hurricanes okay okay and um the final one is uh allow let me just back up so to add to your task list probably every single one of them with only a few exceptions would need to add that before they were good to go right yes sir okay most I would I would say probably all of them need to I wouldn't say all but many okay and then um uh allowing them if they use a certain platform that already performs a background check on both the operator and the user should they be allowed to op out of um section 177 um 3 which is related to sexual off ERS and sexual predators so how are you going to how are you going to follow that up I'm not sure sir I think the part that concerns me is that they could sign up for a service but then not actually use the service I mean if we're going to protect the community let's let's go for it and let somebody challenge us of of all the things we talked about so far if you want to protect your your neighborhoods let them let them challenge us on that yeah so there's one thing that I did want to point out that I do think is onerous on the owners um and that is doing a background check on all occupants it is my opinion that a background check should be done on the person that books and the person that books must certify that nobody under their booking is a uh registered sex offender and that then puts the responsibility on them but doesn't require them to do 10 background checks for every single rental I mean that's just outrageous so when you just help me with the word certify what does that mean how how would they how would they know to be able to certify without a background check well I don't care how they certify but but it makes them liable if anything happens makes them liable but that's after the fact yeah all right run a cheap background check right for 25 bucks I think or something 150 but yeah you understand what that'll do to the cost of the rentals here $25 yes if if you have 10 people no no I'm talking about for that one person yeah for the person that's booking it should happen yes but I think you can do a very inexpensive quick background check should be done I agree should be done not for 10 people not for all but then you want to hold that person okay whoever signs the whatever uh accountable for everybody else correct I I think now I'm curious what the industry does in other plac well that's why they're asking I can tell you so I had an Airbnb in Jacksonville and we did have that platform does do the background check for the the people that are booking and for the owners as well so we didn't have to go through that because it's already done like that the people can't book um through the Airbnb platform unless they I think even a felony I don't it's not even sex Fender I'm pretty sure it's if you have a felony um but but I we never had to do anything for all the occupants we just held that person that was booking responsible for all the OCC great idea I agree and that would also go obviously if there was more than one uh signature on the lease correct okay uh yes Miss pontier uh can you just give us a little more clarification you would like staff to narrow this down based on your guys' conversation I think that would just be helpful so I think the background check should be performed on the person making the booking itself and then that person should be responsible for making sure all of their occupants are not a registered sex offender the language should State all occupants beneath your booking shall not be registered sex offender something to that effect so that we still we're still protecting the community but again to run 10 background checks on 10 occupants it's crazy no no no I hear you it's it's it's a tough one let's suppose we do that do we have any legal teeth if this person does bring a sex offender or anything I don't know well I think they they could definitely be sued um I from a criminal standpoint I'm not sure but I know they they would I mean they would be sued we incorporate language that puts a fine for violating that or for allowing something to slip through the cracks I I I mean your your your teeth here is going to be in the advertising so when you're advertising the property it's going to say it's going it's it's going to have to say that that person whoever signs up is going to have to certify is the word used that that's the case so but uh I mean they certify but one person has this background is there something in that contract or something that you would lose your your what you know what I mean I don't know yeah no I I I I hear what you're saying I do think that that is if you do violate that I think that's a one and done you lose your license with us so and uh that's what I was going to kind of I only feel it's a daylight and a dollar short in terms of the harm in the neighborhood but maybe not yeah I mean the purpose here is to prevent it not to respond to it and I and I'm sorry I don't have a better way I I I don't so so I will I am in consensus that we'll tie it to the uh the uh uh let see oh we've done our we've done what we're supposed to do to at least cover us and make sure well yeah but I'd like I'd really like to protect the neighborhood but okay I'm I'm good with it councilman clus any comment you good yeah it's a I think a bit of an illusion of uh safety here but I don't understand if if we were to sue them I don't I don't know whether that's even an option because there would have to be damages right but I do think eliminating their license and not allowing them to participate in our shortterm rentals in pump Coast is absolutely the option if somehow this situation were to occur and we did catch one more clarification I'm so sorry so right now as written it has about sex offenders not within 25 100 feet of a school uh that was not brought up I want to make sure you still want that language being different you want to reduce it to zero you want to go with 2500 or do you want it applied uh take schools out when it applied universally I uh usually the that I saw was in regarding the schools uh I can't say there's 100% but I did not come across where there was an ordinance that univers I would recommend taking schools out I would too yeah yeah so if we're going to do it that's that's the hardest we can be Council MC glus are you okay with that that's completely 5 by okay um mayor city council if I can um I'll work with Mr Duffy on this but um it was uh suggested to us perhaps that the operator has to maintain a registry of their um renters for a two-year period right I'm just thinking this forward okay let's say that they have uh through this process certified that they don't have any sexual predators staying with them okay but then it's something occurs but it takes a period of time for that to be determined an investigation or whatever right something comes out in the future right um if they have a registry that we can link that person back in some way um then we can hold the operator accountable and remove their certification is that work it out okay I think that's fine yeah I also had I had another question um and this was brought up by an operator um there was some list that publicly showed Str strs um and they had asked if we could not put that out just as a public list automatically but that it it be subject to Foya if somebody wanted to do a Foya because apparently there have been crimes committed against Str strs and we want to avoid uh you know if somebody knows hey a unit might be empty or something to that effect for a certain amount of time so I think that it should be public record if there's a a public record request done but maybe not just putting that down out in the open to make these s strr susceptible to criminal activity yes ma'am we we agreed to we agreed with the um the platform representative with that and described that our current uh rental program we maintain a registry but it's not publicly accessed it's only available through public record request perfect thank you and we would continue that with this project um I apologize I believe I missed one here in the Resident stakeholders which was related to lighting this is not the emergency lighting this is exterior or um lighting related to uh a Leni or or pool deck and our code already has uh requirements for down lighting and you know certain other requirements um we didn't think that it was necessary to add an additional layer also uh very hard to measure um as well tell me what you just said light pollution light pollution it's you it's hard to measure we already have an ordinance for lighting outdoor lighting the residents when we met with them expressed concerns about lighting particularly on the canal where it reflects off off of the water yeah we already have a light pollution ordance you said M I would need to look at it I'm not prepared to answer that right now I'll get you a copy of it um that was all the questions we had unless you have suggestions other suggestions for us that you'd like uh us to look at I can't think of any the only um so I know there's an exemption for noise level uh for I think it's tourism related activities uh the decibal level is 65 rather than 6 which is what everybody else is bound to um I want to make sure that Str strs are not exempt from the same noise decible uh requirements as everybody else they aren't they're not okay so wait wait they're not who so the way it's written is it's nothing has changed that they still follow our current noise reg uh ordinance that they have to follow all that okay that's all I had thank you does that give you the the policy direction that you were looking for yes sir will so then I would open this up for public comment to see if we've missed anything that uh they may be concerned about so one at a time okay come on let's give each speaker their let's give each speaker their excuse me let's give each speaker their fair chance to speak please go ahead yeah my name is syia Pugi I live here since 91 one already our uh ordinance for parking R uh that is prohibited on lawall to park or store a recreational vehicle for more than a total of three days or any part thereof in any consecutive seven days so you know you can park for three days but then the seven days have to be corre uh uh uh completed the week to be able to allow a again to park for 3 days so that can be a caveat there uh one other thing is this I live here and enough and uh I know most ordinances will be the same for whether uh long-term rental or or residential or short-term rental the problem is that on on these short-term rentals like people complain about the noise and all those complaints um what I think is uh uh they were talk 275 units now you have if they charge $200 per unit will be $55,000 a a year if they charge 400 will be $0 that could pay for one additional inspector dedicated just just to those complaints of those uh rentals that is what the city uh needs to do and the issue with this complaints is that you see here in in Florida if we complain right then they can release who was the IDE of the complainer and then you get all kinds of paybacks I did get a couple of times that but I don't care right but also all other people are concerned they have little children whatever they don't like the payback so my advice will be to our um uh Department of Code Enforcement which they do a great job having a an officer just dedicated to those 275 rentals that might grow and then they need to charge more uh that they should be reactive they should be uh proactive not reactive so if you have officers dedicated to the rentals and they should drive around this rentals then they should when they see a violation they should not expect just a resident nearby to call for the violation just address it because they just see it because I know the our court enforcement is are pretty busy and they probably wait more for people calling on a violation than being uh proactive so we are all subject to the same ordinances they have just to be enforced thanks speaker Janice read e section um if this is the first reading of this ordinance where is short-term rental defined don't you think that should be like part of the ordinance what is a short-term rental secondly to install emergency lights hardwired emergency lights in a residential unit requires you to tear the entire house apart and rewire the entire house has anybody thought about that you actually know how to install you have to run new wires to every location that you're going to put these lights in ridiculous third why are you trying to shove this down our throat so quickly we've already learned from the whole discussion that we sat here for an hour and a half listening to about the bond ordinance what happens when you try to do things too fast you completely screw it up why are we trying to get this done in three weeks this is insane I think you need to talk to a lot more people I think you need to talk you know this through think things through don't always assume the worst case scenario how many of those 275 rental units have you actually had a complaint about five or six maybe well then deal with them because the majority of us who own rental units don't have a problem I haven't had a complaint in 12 years from anybody in the neighborhood I abide by all the local ordinances so do my tenants and it's not a problem so you really need to slow the down think it through and get it right and don't shove it down our throat too quickly thank you thank you for your comment next speaker please Robert Mcdonald Palm Coast once again we didn't wake up this morning and say we're going to discuss this you knew ahead of time that there was only going to be four possibly only four Council people who could vote so that means that it could be a two to two vote again but now going back to my next question who's going to inspect these houses because now technically they're a business so if you're going to operate a business in Palm Coast you're going to need electrical building Plumbing fire code enforcement who's going to pay for these inspections the guy that owns the house the guy that lives lives in the house may not know the rules of Palm Coast so that means that if somebody comes in and wants to rent your house and you're going to charge them I don't know $4,000 for the week and he's got a camper or he's got a boat who's going to come and tell him that he can't he's going to be there two or three days and he's going to get told oh you got to you can't have your boat on our line again what we've been talking about this for months because back a couple of months ago we asked the City attorney to investigate the proper language so when it came back to the city and it came back to the public it would be clear there wouldn't be any questions well here it is 2 months later and every time you have a question you got to ask him well he should have he should be giving the report instead of Mr dorenzo cuz he's the guy who's going to tell you yes you can do it or no you can't do it but again what is the big hurry to get this through it's not like we live in a in a winter Community where people are going to be moving out of here in a couple of months this this has been going to go on all year long but again the people that are sitting here are not going to be here by the time this ordinance gets passed you're not going to be here so again why try to shove this down our throats until such time comes as we have a full sitting Council Mr D Lorenzo and Mrs grman can come back and say okay here's all the questions here's all answers now the council can vote on it intelligently and if the residents have a question they can then raise their hand and say hey I got a question what about this what about that but nobody has said in Mr delorenzo's elegent comments who's going to pay for all the inspections is the homeowner going to pay for them is the renter going to pay for them who's going to pay for them or is this better yet who's the is the city going to pay for them because now every time you send an inspector out he's on the clock so I want to know who's going to pay for the inspections next speaker hi we're julan Kathy Davidson we work we have an Airbnb out of our home we've been doing this for nine years and we absolutely love what we do we have a 4.9 rating we've been super host for nine years we have over 1600 reviews what your decisions affect us and our Airbnb pays for our living so your decisions affect us please consider what you're saying and what you're doing to the residents I have my time no you no good PE with me that's F he can have his own time huh he can have his own time okay all right I encourage you to just pay attention to what we do we pay our taxes we do everything right we don't we have a very peaceful home we live live there and we oversee everything that is going on to make sure nothing happens and everything is going well so I please ask you to really consider what you're doing cuz I love what we do and I don't want to to lose that so when you're talking about and I want to present this thought what I hear is two people per room we have we have families that come to our homes I cannot tell children parents your mother your father and your child is not allowed to be in that bedroom what do we do with the child child I have an air I have an air mattress that provides for that child for the families to be together we have a Jack and Jill situation to where we have can parents can be in one room and the children can be in the other but it's a Jack and Jill but the children are allowed to be with their parents they come swim they have a good time they get away I don't want to lose that thank you next speaker yeah so what you're heing there's a lot to think about besides what has been discussed appreciate all the hard work but as Kathy said we've been super hosts for 10 years we've welcomed guests from all over the world uh we're not a party house now there are legitimate concerns I read online this stuff is not addressing the legitimate concerns it's kind of like a farmer that wants to kill a fly the fly is on the cow so he blows up the cow have some rules for houses where the owners don't live there and the homes are owned by people from out of state and they're not there they don't have know what's going on to actually address the problems like in the C-section that people were talking about but to take people like us and to make a bunch of rules doesn't make a lot of sense our guests are like family so we would like to be included in a workshop we've been doing this 10 years we've had thousands of guests and they should be interviewing homeowners about these things so uh this is really just creating bigger government which we don't want bigger government I don't think any but well I guess some people do but there should be different rules for local homeowners versus outof State investors um leases the word lease was there we leave people people cont people sign up through Airbnb at 5:00 p.m. they show up 2 hours later to stay at our home can't do a sex offender check Airbnb does that so there has to be an exclusion for Airbnb because they do those checks um terms of service background checks uh leases and stuff all that's through Airbnb uh two people we had a baseball team with their coaches stay with us there was more than 12 people but the coaches were with the baseball team we lived there we were house overseers we had a group of 16 people from China came in one group lovely people they all stayed in our home we were there uh Che we had a cheerleading team with their coaches over 10 people over 12 people they're Co so there these rules are like it's made by people that are not thinking about real life here uh we have a six-bedroom home by the way that we live in and we rent five bedrooms out um uh remedies and enfors creating a bureaucracy all this stuff weekly monitoring requirements this is a bureau a bureaucracy we don't need um licensing is just another cost we already collect a 5% tourist tax from the guest through Airbnb we turn it into the local tourist tax to help fud the beaches and things it's important money hey add 2% if you want as an extra tourist tax let the people that are coming to stay at our home pay 7% local tourist tax instead of 5% but don't put us through having to get another license and all that kind of stuff uh registration creating a code uh the uh Bike Week trailers we have people here for bike week nice lovely people they bring their bike in a bike trailer that needs to be allowed and um make decb make the decible requirements low lower for for Str strs than they are for homeowners that will fix a lot of the problems thank you for your comment okay next speaker I I agree with everything everyone else has just said I'm a local U homeowner uh Airbnb host as all as well I've got a three-bedroom house um I welcome families so I welcome two two parents and a child I give an air mattress for that child so there needs to be allowances for that for young families um to be able to stay um the background checks Airbnb does that for us um for us to from what I've understood um you're basically saying um for us to do a background check well somebody books at 11:30 at night they show up at midnight they leave at 8:00 a.m. they're only here for a night we can't for one do the background check for one second Airbnb does not allow us to have their driver's license so we can't do a background check we can't get our social security number we're not allowed to get that information so we cannot do background checks via Airbnb it's not possible we would not be allowed we would not be able to rent via Airbnb which is our sole income I don't do vbo I don't do those other platforms neither do my parents they we do Airbnb and we're not allowed to get that information um and then uh and then I agree with everything else that everyone just said um parking as long as people can park in the driveways we don't allow people to park in the grass we tell them up front that they're not allowed to park in the grass overnight part the city syney ordinance um they have to park in the driveway um there should be allowances for the bike week trailers um so yeah um yeah just bring down the noise ordinance like they said um so like like like my dad just said the the stuff that you guys are bringing up does not address the actual issues the theur the comments online is is mostly the C-section and those are corporations that bought up those houses and and rent those and owners do not live there uh we live right here in town my parents live in their home we're able to monitor every situation my home my husband and I monitor that 100% um we're very strict with our rules we have very strict rules in our house and part the city ordinances and um none of our our guests break those rules they're very quiet very quiet peaceful environment um so don't punish us law abiding citizens and our and our and our rule following guests because of other corporations that buy up all these houses thank you for your comment next speaker Mr Mayor and uh City Council Members um Teresa Panter thank you for your for your help in this matter and the city managers you've worked very hard on this occupancy of 10 people I'll bet there's not a person in this room that has a family with 10 people in their house in our community so I I'll bet there isn't your family with 10 people would be a lot of people in a home I've rented airbnbs vrbos and in other areas and we had a total of six adults and that's a lot of people so 10 is not is not unreasonable um as for who's going to pay the registration P of fee of 400 and 200 a year is pance they get 3,000 a week 4,000 5,000 a month is what they're ad advertising online that is nothing I would say $1,000 and $500 a year thereafter that'll pay for all this um the inspections it'll pay for the code enforcement it'll pay for all the efforts going into this our code enforcement right now is overwhelmed and I think that Barbara and her crew does a great job but we can't they can't address all the complaints we've had from the absentee own owners I'm really sorry about the people that live here and have airbnbs that really um watch what their guests are doing but you are at a minority there are so many llc's from out of town that do not care there are so many renters that come in that just do not know our community have no respect for us and we are we are subject to this every day numerous trailers numerous cars cars and swes garbage cans in front of the house all week then rolled out to the G to the to the end of the driveway then put back and you might as well have a dumpster out front and this is what's going on it's not it's not a uncommon occurrence I can go right now and look at the airbnbs and even in our community and see garbage cans everywhere so I think that that has to be addressed and um the last thing was about uh the trailers I think that's a good idea not to have any trailers we have found now three local areas that will rent trailers on a daily basis so just like you reserve your car when you come in on vacation reserve the spot for your trailer ahead of time thank you thank you for your comment next speaker Peter Johnson Palm Coast um just kind of piggy back off of what that gentleman was saying it is unfortunate because there are members of the community here that do care about their airbnbs and do want the community to do well unfortunately the scrupulous players out of state investing big companies aren't here to justify their actions it seems to be the biggest issue is obviously 1012 how many residents and I think that one thing that is being grossly overlooked is when we were talking about I believe it was seminal woods and I also believe it was hidden lakes the apartments that were going in I'm going to butcher this cuz quite frankly I've been out of town for a few weeks and I haven't been able to read up all all this but there was 2.5 was the number of heartbeats allowed per room when they were doing the census and the impact as far as how much like traffic was going to be in the roads and all of that so why do we not just do x amount per livable space with no cap so that way you could say if there's a three-bedroom it automatically is capped at six residents if it's a four-bedroom it's automatically capped at eight residents and if it's like that gentleman's house right there he would be capped at 12 CU it would be unfair to that the other things I was going to ask about um is as far as the trailers go so what I see in the C-section a lot of times is and unfortunately one of the reasons why the C-section is so targeted in this is because we do have the amenities of the canals over there and we're drawing in a certain type of Tourism dollar and by doing away with the trailer I just I'm concerned like are we we don't have industry in this town to begin with so we need every single bit of tax dollars that we can get are we going to be disincentivizing people by not letting them do that now I don't think it should be cart blanch and I've made the suggestion for work trucks and other trailers but could we not Implement some sort of permit fee that says hey if you want to have a trailer in the driveway it is going to be x amount of dollars extra and then to double down on that the 40000 is that just arbitrary numbers or is that actually going to fund our code enforcement that we need because as from my understanding we don't have enough code enforcement to do this so we need to make sure that those numbers are correct even though it could affect the end cost for the consumer um additionally uh just from a quick Google search the sex offenders have to register with local law enforcement if they're going to be establishing for more than 3 days from out of state and there's other regulations so I also recommended this maybe we work with Sheriff Staley to see what the regulations are and what the requirements are for the state so we can figure that out and then additionally just to find penalties and revocation of permit I I may have missed it but but if there if there's like a strong structure of like if you do this X Y and Z you will have your permit revoked basically instead I mean not to single up Pon are but she's like oh you'll definitely lose your license if you do this but that's kind of like wishy-washy to me we need to have a set structure that says if you do this you lose it because of this and this is the fines that accompany it in addition to um one of the things that I didn't really see talked about was they can give notices but if there's 3-day turnaround times you have to be implementing fines directly on site to these people or else they're going to be gone and I get the trailer concerns to you're right the 3 days turns into 6 days which turns into 9 days because you're constantly cycling but that's why it's so pertinent to make sure that we are charging the correct fees in order to assess the code enforcement correctly and make sure that we're funded thank you next speaker Mark stanil Su Old Woods um there's a sign that uh you you see when you enter Palm Coast it says no commercial trailers boats RVs parked and residential areas you know some of these uh vacation people come for a week or two weeks at a time and they're going to come and we can't allow them to uh Park their stuff because Palm Co residents can't park it in the driveway you know and like uh Peter just said maybe the somebody could pay a fee to park a trailer in their yard if they're paying a fee maybe that's a solution I don't know but you can't let outsid you know people from out of state come and just come into our town and avoid the rules that we have to have you know and it's not fair that's uh maybe if we could increase the code enforcement program to where they can go out more you know not just on a some because somebody calls and complains now a lot of people won't complain now because they got to give their names it's not Anonymous but maybe they could just go out once a month and just Cruise their neighborhood you know maybe get a few more officers you know that would help plus it could bring Revenue uh for Palm Coast thank you thank you next speaker May alen Council I'm Quinn Cressy uh from C-section um I want to address just a few um issues very quickly um first of all um as an very active part of the um CCC I do believe that there'll be a lot of support for um excluding owners who live in their property from the ordinances um I have seen a different city I can't remember um which one it is now that does differentiate between people who live in their home and um are there to actively manage the people that live in their home versus those that um stand independent of that um I believe we would like to see sleeping room rather than I know you've discussed it a lot but sleeping room rather than because it's so very signifant very precisely defined in the ordinances um I think regarding the 247 hotline I think that is really the place where we can make a big difference in having to um spend money on uh code enforces if there is a hotline 27 uh 24/7 uh if we hear noise at 3:00 in the morning we can call the hotline the hotline immediately calls the person on call the person on call tries to deal with the issue by calling the residents it could be nipped in the bud right there if it's not the owner the person on call calls the police not the resident I think that if it's a noise complaint dealing with it immediately makes a huge difference if it is a trash issue or you know something then the 2hour uh time you know to get to the house and deal with it uh makes sense um I do want to um make a uh first of all um regarding the sexual uh Predators issue um you know we just recently had uh 10 to 12 young men about you know about 20 years old all coming to uh the Airbnb across from us and if one of those people said okay we the we the the um you know we're responsible for everybody else I didn't know that they would know what the others sexual predator history was so I would suggest that we do that for everybody over 18 or have some sort of limit like that um the other thing that I want to address very quickly um is um uh let me just uh check this out here there are a few other things that we would like to be involved in with the advertising requirements including tresp passing issues as well okay thanks very much thank you next speaker evening mayor council my name is Roger cresy from C-section um I wanted to first of all start by saying thank you thanks for all that you have done we are very grateful and thank you for all the time you've taken for the consideration in meeting with us um in representing the canal Community Coalition um we're a nonpartisan group Democrats Republicans Independence um but we've come together on this issue because we want our residents back um we we want to have peaceful properties and live peaceful lives um we've actually seriously been considering selling our house it's that drastic and unfortunately there seem to be some people here who do manage their airbnbs well and but in our area there are three one is well-managed the other two are a nightmare so it's unfortunate that some have to suffer for the others but I'm afraid that that's really the position that we are in is that we want these in place to protect us so uh really just you're often the target of criticism I want to thank you for this thank you that for what you have done it's appreciated and thank you so uh we are still concerned that the ordinances will not protect us enough um we think that the the stricter you make them up front the less problems we'll have going forward um but uh really uh just to end on a positive note for you've taken a lot of heat on this thank you thank you for your comment next speaker please good evening Randy coll C-section Palm Coast um so what's the definition of a home the place where one lives permanently these are not homes these are businesses and they should be treated as such you have exit signs that's what businesses are required to have these people over here people are staying in their homes maybe they shouldn't have to adhere to these rules so thank you thank you for your comment next speaker hi Mike C-section um I live on a street that's kind of short and right now we just have one short-term rental but there's two houses are going to be up for sale and we also have two long-term rental houses on our street so we're all on a street concern that if something you know they sell or they decide to go from longterm to short term that you know now we're going to be outnumbered by the short-term rentals uh the one we have hasn't been too bad we've had a few incidences uh with them um and they've been pretty good about you know straighten it out um as far as those lights and stuff I worked in electrical field for a long time you don't have to rewire the whole house you probably have to put one breaker in and then wire them together but that's something that you all would hash out as far as the other people though they're living on the premise so it's a little different there's control there where they can say hey you're making too much noise be quiet the other ones we don't have that luxury where we can say okay they're making too much noise we call the police the police come they tell them be quiet they leave they get nois again um I think we need to have some rules you know now that we've got the opportunity to have these rules that we should try to get some rules and make it good for everyone um and the people that you know like the C-section does seem to be a party area where we got a lot of people that bringing their boats they're coming down our canals they're making big wakes they got the radio blasting with music that's not fit for kids to hear drinking people with their feet hanging over the bow which is illegal if they fall over they're going to drown get run over um it'd be nice to see the police patrol hide down the canals a little bit and when they see something like that maybe address it um I've only seen them I've been there seven years I've seen the patrol on my Canal twice there's a marker down the street down the canal from us it says slow minimum wake or no wake it'd be nice if they would put another one to it would be the north I believe of that so people would see that and maybe know not to be going too fast and making a wake um and I think that was about all I had to say but we thank you if you can do anything to help everybody you know it would be great uh and maybe um some of the money that you know as far as these fines maybe they can be used to help pay for these extra enforcement that you know needs to be used on the ones that are misusing the uh short-term rental that's thank you for your comment next speaker please hi Mindy Melendez the F section um when you go to rent an apartment you have to have a driver's license anybody over 18 has to show their driver's license so I think that is not asking too much I have two children still at home a 17-year-old daughter and a 5-year-old son that I can't take back their innocence if a sexual predator comes and hurts them I can't protect them from that my 17-year-old is home alone at times and I think that is an important feature that needs to be put in place because as parents we're to protect our children and I adopted my 5-year-olds and my job was to protect him and I need to know that I can protect him and not have some sexual PR running around my street thank you for your comment next speaker please reine berer in the section I have an A Airbnb four bedroom The Advertiser is five with a swimming pool bring all their friend and family of pal coast and up to five car AC in front of my driveway I cannot go out of my driveway and they don't care and the garbage all over the I I don't understand it something should be done about it thank you thank you for your comment next speaker thank you mayor councel uh Fred Sinclair I'm in C-section removed here in 2018 um because the Palm Coast was what it what it was and the Dynamics of our community is drastically changing um we got an Airbnb I guess you call it um behind our canal um I I don't believe the owners's been there since 3 years and they're out of state um you mentioned something about the U the canals and the boat regulations and the trailers I think the elimination of trailers will help a lot um we end up with two or three boats sitting be you know sitting out back and it's probably only set up for one boat uh they bounce off the sides um we find dings in our boats in our boat I don't know which one which which one bounces off our boat but that's a constant stress point for us um the fee the $200 fee I I I would recommend that you take a step back and make sure that that would cover the enforcement um so we're now here 2 years later and we got great some great hope here um but that the fees would cover the U the Personnel um let me see so the it it should be self-funded um need some help with the the boats but I think the the parking uh or the elimination of the trailers will help a lot um it'll force them to find an off-site place to park them at so that should minimize some of that I mean we see these guys come in in and out two three times during the day emptying the the fish going back out because you know you got FWC regulations and and they don't follow regulations um I don't even know if they got fishing license um and I would I would say check the fines you know make sure we got meat in them that you can enforce them I I think I've seen something up there about if they're not paid in 12 months or after 12 months you won't renew it it seems to me that we would have some meet somewhere in between that if you got some pretty significant violations and they're not paying their fees that they're suspended um that's about again I commend you I appreciate you um you're giving us some hope thank you for your comment next speaker please there's a very fine line between just please introduce yourself forther yeah shant pring there's a very fine line between giving enough regulation and too much regulation and none of us wants to finish up leaving long enough to have our how many times a minute we can breathe uh so that being said the driveway issue um if it's okay with the owners to have a car parked in the garage why not why the city has to regulate that if the driveway is big enough to include nine cars and and some people come with two cars why not fill a driveway as long as they're not in the street uh the weekly monitoring is really abusive it's an invasion of privacy you have somebody come to your home every week to check if everything's okay uh you would not want that in your own home um and who would you the back know who would check the the weekly mon ing that would be um The Code Enforcement so if I get that right people who rent a place that paid 200 or four or two2 200 or $400 what per week per per per month per year what's the idea and and that will help the code enforcement to come and check on them um the background check okay either for all or is for nobody because if you don't check those who come from other countries I mean how can those get away with it we have problem with the uh the um people coming illegally in the states and we don't know who they are but we can check on them if they if they come around a place to you you can't check on them but you can check on other people it doesn't make sense to me uh two people room how about a couple that comes with a baby or young child you say that that kid goes in another room it's a it's a places never seen before but uh can't be on an inflatable um now I don't have um Airbnb I don't have a place to rent like that but if I had neighbors who rented the place what I would look for is are they noisy do they make noise excessive noise after 10:00 uh do they Park all over so we can't even get out of our own driveway do they do drugs do they drink are they dangerous for our children to be around that's what I would focus on thank you for your comment next speaker yeah hi Andrew uh Palm Co so I'm a big uh property rights advocate so I'm I'm really sorry for those U short-term rers who are following the rules and getting punished by um you know the the ones that are not but in meeting residents I will say that this is a really big uh this is a number one issue for a lot of of people that live here and they uh you know their quality of life is really affected by a lot of these short-term rentals um so I would say a couple questions that I have as far as the 400 200 amount I'm curious is that if that's a researched uh you know if that amount is researched uh you know I'm just I'm doing the math here I'm I'm not a mathematician but 275 rentals at 400 is about 110,000 which from my understanding you you guys were saying that a code enforcement an additional code enforcement um employee would cost the city about $100,000 so um if you know if we were to make that uh fee across the board if it's an annual fee $400 a year is about you know $3 some dollars a month anyway so when I was talking to Residents the three issues that I really found that was most important to them were the sound you know late night parties things like that too many cars parked in the you know so they can't maneuver into their own driveways um and then parties so I think uh this is a good discussion to have because we're addressing a lot of those things um I have a question about the violations uh you know we should probably build that out a little bit more how many violations uh would it you know take to say hey we can't have this as a rental in Palm Coast anymore um and then I also have some concerns about the complaint process so you know the difference between a really good Airbnb with no complaints and one with a lot of complaints kind of depends on the neighbor so um if uh there's a process to kind of vet complaints as well to make sure that you know there's not over complaining going on in the neighborhood I think that would be a good thing to kind of build out just to make sure and then uh lastly um I've had a lot of businesses uh come and say tourism business say you know we don't really have anywhere to advertise and Market our um you know our tour our tourism business so a good thing might be is you know another Avenue for um re Vue and this could be for the city it could be for private you know a private Enterprise but advertising some of our tourists opportunities in these uh airbnbs um just to get the word out so they can get their businesses uh known so uh thank you for my comment thank you for your comment next speaker please good evening Julia Connelly from the C-section and I wanted to bring up a few things um about density and I know we've um had a discussion um about density and that it's very nearly impossible to regulate however the situation on my street and I have almost 30 homes just on my street I have three airbnbs within three doors from me there's one more home right across the street from me that's going up for sale and we're all this trigger you know like really nervous about whether that one's going to be short-term rental there's another elderly couple that are in their 90s and that house will probably also be on the market so I'm looking at possibly five airbnbs within three doors of me so that is one thing um to keep in mind and I and clearly the people who host from their own home is a is a different issue but the csection is has some unique problems and um having the proximity of so many houses together we have seen um it's it's basically like having a class reunion because you know if you have 10 or 12 people that's 36 people who have vehicles and everything and they're they're they're they're gathering for celebrations but it's um it's quite a burden on our single family neighborhood where we chose to live um so thank you very much for giving us the opportunity to work through this but I hope you would keep those things in mind thank you for your comment are there any other speakers that would like to address me at this time seeing uh no speakers let me close public comment Vice I just want to make one comment real quick go go ahead if I can and then I want to clarify no no just as an umbrella you know you've heard a lot and we're we're kind of guessing the magnitude of the importance of getting this in play before the next legislative session and the reason I say that is I'm concerned that you've heard enough I mean I don't know how comfortable you are with the consensus that we have established this evening um I I thought it was a lot to digest in in a a relatively short timeline so go ahead what's your com oh I I just want to clarify one thing and I I think we're all in agreement when we put a number like 10 people per house we're not saying that only two people can be in a bedroom you could take two people and their two kids and put them in one bedroom we're not saying per bedroom we're just coming up with a number for the house I like the idea if it's you know you know if it's a five bedroomroom house 10 people if it's a six bedroom house I'd be happy to go to 12 people but we're not telling people how many people in a bedroom I don't care if you put all 10 people in the bedroom that's up to you I mean it's kind of crazy but um I do also think that I want to make sure that whatever we do that we are self-funding this if we add an additional code enforcement person we are we are funding that paycheck we are funding those benefits we are funding the vehicle that they will be using I don't want us to add an additional person and burden the taxpayers on that but let me just so we don't have to go backwards are you willing to give staff the opportunity to forecast what that expense might be because here's the thing and I was getting it's very difficult right now to calculate what that could possibly be I I was getting to that so we need to look at what we will be charging fee wise to make sure that we're not taking taxpayer dollars to pay for this um the other thing is um on the sex offender things and the Airbnb do they do the background check yes they do where Vice May let's don't ask the public I'm not I'm asking Jason and Barbara okay or Council or Council I don't care which okay Council they they do this correct yeah they they said that they do I don't know what typee of background check to do okay so we need to look into that and if that serves our requirement of that type of thing then I think that could be sufficient there's no reason to have the homeowner the property owner do it separately if they're already paying for it to be done I've never done an Airbnb so I I don't know how it even works and the the other the the flip side of that is if you have international U uh renters the comment was made be before that there may not be access to that data yeah it's a question I understand question for and for staff um I think we can all agree that the absentee owners are the majority of the problem here not our local residents you know and it's unfortunate you know a few bad apples so let let's but but I think we do need to keep so let's let's pause there your point is well taken legally is there any way you know zoning is not the right word is there any way to differentiate without creating a legal issue um those that live in the home obviously one or local owners as opposed to um owners that are remote can can there be classes set up that are legal the short answer is yes there is a way if direction from this dis staff and I can look in that and look at the appropriate so I think that's a Direction I want to give staff is to see how we can separate absolutely why why wouldn't you want to know so the other thing too I I think it's important uh to note is we want to get this right so we don't need to rush rush to do it I'm glad we're doing what we're doing tonight but I want the public to know is the reason we're bringing this up the reason is we're listening to your public comment and having these conversations is hopefully to do it right you're also looking at a new governor who this current governor didn't sign off on it the next one night so that's why the clock is ticking however are you willing to Forfeit forfeit the process in anticipation of something that you really don't know what the actions of the next government I just want to make sure and I'm counting on staff you know to come back to us with the answers to these questions and I think again uh by separating the absentee owners and the local owners we're going a long ways for that I would also somebody mentioned electrical work putting in lighting or whatever you don't have to rip out your walls to do that you can actually there there are ways to do this running it outside on the walls and and it's not as elaborate I don't want people to think they're going to have to tear out their sheet let let's let staff they got a building department let them handle the detail work right well this is very simple if you we're looking at policy here uh councilwoman pontieri um go ahead go ahead go ahead um so I I do want to find an objective way to differentiate the owners um we just need an objective way to do that and then we'll need to figure out I don't think that they should be exempt from all of these regulations so we will as a policy have to figure out um which uh regulations are exempt from I would like to see a fine and a fee schedule that's um more thoroughly worked out looking at fees as far as cost recovery like vice mayor said and then finding that do have some teeth and um timelines to pay those fines all those things I know we didn't really discuss that tonight but I'd like to see that in the future um my last thing is I do have a concern about people making complaints in their identities being revealed the same way they would if they made a normal code enforcement complaint so I I I don't know if there's a way around that I don't know I know that there's been talk about a 247 hotline and it's my opinion that the fees that the um Airbnb owners or I shouldn't say Airbnb the Str owners would have um would presumably cover that 24-hour hotline but have we even looked into that is is really my question I can tell you that I spoke with the um Hollywoods Florida and they Outsource and they pay $35 to $50,000 a month for a 247 service and they don't even really have that it's it's kind of misleading because a lot of they make no calls they're all done email and they could be done mour I spoke to the manager um that does the um Str strs there so Barbara you did look at subcontracting this yes we did okay because I didn't hear that mentioned before and it was not cost effective in your opinion at that time well they also have around 9,000 um 1900 1900 excuse so it wasn't it wasn't a comp okay no yeah and I thought that's what we had looked at um so I I don't know I think we just need to kind of brainstorm there because I do think it's important that people be able to call in and make complaints without feeling the threat of repercussion unfortunately the way it reads in the code right now that government I mean the uh statute that Governor distance signs it's only as an imminent threat that's the only time that we can't get a name and address so if there was an unsecure pool if there was a wildfire Hazard something of that then we could go without a name and address but when it's a complaint that is not an imminent threat they must they cannot be um Anonymous okay and then the last thing that I would like just to be checked on um I think platforms like A&B Airbnb would probably do a better background check than the $25 background check you're referring to so um I think we need to look into that just to see what kind of background check is actually done and if it is satisfactory um then we can go that route but I don't know enough about it um to to to make sure would satisfy our concerns councilman Kus any final comments um and then I'm going to ask the city manager a question for sure number one I think that it's going to be very difficult for us to be coordinating the background checks especially with the information I have available where even the people who are hosting them don't have all the information necessary for a detailed background check uh number two we haven't discussed the maximum allowable airbnbs for single person or entity to own Inc com coast and operate I think that's a great way to keep bigger operation out of pal coast and I think from what we've heard from the public that that would preclude some of our individuals who live in their homes they Airbnb them uh you know they are the good actors and they're getting uh spooled spooled in here together but those two things specific way I don't think we're going to be able to do background checks especially for sexual creditors and these things that we're not policing people we're policing the Airbnb and I think that should fall on the Airbnb and number two I think we need to discuss how many allowable airbnbs a person can operate in the city uh B city manager what staff has heard what the public has said um obviously all there's consensus that it needs to be done well it needs to be done correctly and right and and hopefully long lasting um how much time do you want to tell us you need to come back and I'm assuming that this probably needs a workshop of its own would you all think that because all of our if you look forward at our agendas they're uh they're pretty full or if you're willing to let it roll forward I'm not opposed to that either um it's like how much time do they need to come back to uh it's a hard question I understand that but I don't want to but he's the one that costs money you guys um in by uh Mutual eye contact at least two weeks please well just so be careful because you were asked to check a lot of comps or other places I don't know how long that takes so if you're tell me let me just see if I can try and help with this so um we could perceivably bring it back to a workshop you do have a workshop scheduled for September 24th in the evening which you requested to go through District how many how many items are on that so it's not overloaded with you know 3et of uh important items uh one right now with the with the district four vacancy seat okay okay that works I well I don't want to do I don't want it to get lost in in a in a long agenda like this so people have to sit and not be able to comment after waiting through so much and because there obviously it's it's there's a lot of sentiment throughout the community and there's some very complicated issues which could become very serious legal issues if we don't do it absolutely correctly just two items on that Workshop then vacancy well that's up to the city manager at this point that what you're saying La uh as of right now as of now there's a qualification there okay very good all right uh Council just uh a re attack on some comments that the Das made so one for fines we are required to follow the due process requirements with the statute so we can't just automatically just find someone they need to go to the uh code code enforc board uh and like Barbara already talked about you um they can't be uh Anonymous uh unfortunately under the system second we cannot the statute that is govering this says a local law ordinance regulation may not prohibit vacation rentals so we cannot limit how many vacation rentals are in this city if someone wants to have 100 as long as they're buying legally they're following our ordinances we cannot prohibit them from having unless they do not follow the rules and they do not say we put a lean against their house because they're not paying the FES that would be a way but if they're following the rules we can't limit them okay all right so uh councilman Kus you're good with the um um I have one more question so can we make the scale of the rates that they pay increase almost exponentially for the higher number of airbnbs you operate in comp Coast so it's $400 right now what we talked about earlier for the first one but if you have 10 that 10th one cost you $50 $0000 to try to uh deter that type of behavior all right Mr Duffy I would advise against that because uh reading the statue you can't prohibit the duration and you can't prohibit someone would argue by upscaling how much it costs to have two or three you're prohibiting them from having a short-term rental and I I just think our discussion goes a lot further if we get clarification on the I'll call them classes for lack of a better term right now so that we can segregate the different um gross types um and I think then we can make a lot of progress then I have one other question good probably for legal counsel but while we can't put a cap on how many are in our city can we put a percentage per Street per mile per square mile or anything of that nature like could you have a street with 100% of these things on uh unfortunately no that would be a strong argument that you are prohibiting them from having a short-term R it's like asking to paint them all red well you you with some HOAs on condos and and and and Tow houses and stuff you know you go into an HOA there can be a percentage that you can rent out and once that HOA reaches that 15% or 20 a whole different set of laws though yeah it truly is yeah got it all right thank you so you're conf uh you all are confident that we'll Target not Target we're going to confirm what is the date of the workshop September 24th and I would encourage the public to if we've left anything out of this discussion tonight trying you not being redundant staff is really good to communicate with staff so that we try to get it as right as we possibly can and then past that Workshop I just as one if it needs to go further than that I don't have a big problem with that um if if it needs to okay okay all right with that how do the workshops work like can we come to a workshop staff will help you that in the back sir okay thank you all right we'll move um on to uh letter G item number six I believe it is and an ordinance again of the first read if uh Council would read that in for me yes ordinance 2024 dxx approving the 2050 comprehensive plane text and map series for the city of Palm Coast um mayor if I can while um staff is getting prepared um we didn't have a um presentation attached in your packet but just hearing your discussion and trying to work through the items uh we prepared a few slides to help navigate through the process thank you city council uh evening hold on a second R yep go ahead sorry I one thing I've overlooked since this was the first read you do need to vote on has anyone had any experte none are we talking about the Str Str or the comp plan the Str Str so do we need to make a motion or can we make a motion to table it until after the workshop well always we done uh we're talk short-term rentals right so what have we done so far we we've just done consensus and given staff some uh right but we had this as an ordinance read sorry could table it right you can table it and if you want to continue have a first read or you can make a motion to move forward I'm going to ask for a motion uh as Council has indicated I would make a motion to table it for now is there a second I'll second it is there any further discussion is there any discussion from the public on the motion on the floor seeing uh councilman Kus I'm sorry I neglected you yeah no understood that's fair I uh wish we just brought this forward in an initial Workshop instead of going through this process and uh but yeah that's fine I'm okay tbling it good so if there is no no members of the public that would like to address the motion on the floor I'll come back to the day any final discussion then all in favor of tabling this until the mo did the motion have the date in it no um mayor we would need to have the workshop first and then get your direction at that Workshop of when you would like it on another agenda okay so table it to a future meeting future meeting not was were those the words of the motion I don't remember future meeting said to table it until after the workshop until after the workshop good enough very good all in favor please signify by saying I I are there any opposed the motion passes unanimously thank you thank you mayor city council hold on uh councel does that satisfy your requirements Mr Tiner thank you good evening uh city council Ray terer deputy chief development officer uh at the last uh public hearing we had on the transmittal hearing there was uh several comments so I've got a be a brief presentation mayor and city council to go through uh regarding the process for a comprehensive plan Amendment specifically for uh our update of our comprehensive plan that may help hopefully um alleviate some uh questions so I just want to go back it's a very brief presentation uh just to uh talk about how you know last year well over a year ago city council directed City staff to engage our public to go out to our public to engage them to see uh about updating our comprehensive plan this was a city council sat priority uh to get this completed by the year so you wanted us to go out and try to engage as many people we can I know you you've heard this before about the the uh Community engagement uh process that we went through um for for 6 to 8 months uh we did our project website we did uh popup events Civic groups social media campaigns press releases uh we even had project ambassadors uh media coverage um and we engaged uh approximately 86,000 people and even to this date uh city council we have our draft goals objectives and policies online uh for our citizens still to continue to comment because as we talked about this process that the comments will not end until the adoption process is is complete so just real briefly the process of transmitting and adopting a comprehensive plan so after we um reached um the public and and received a lot of the public comment as you recall we created a new vision statement for the city and we created guiding principles so we took those guiding principles and the comments that we had from our residents and we modified our comprehensive plan accordingly and then what we did after staff and their consultant drafted drafted these uh proposals we went to uh City Council on city council workshops we also went to our planning and Land Development regulation board and and our beautification advisory uh committee as well and we've held eight um public workshops uh based on our our elements and and our um our proposed goals objectives and policies and then after we continue to receive comments from all of these uh appointed bodies and from our elect officials and from the website uh because we continue to get that input and community outreach we would draft and revise those comprehensive plan policies objectives and and so forth and then once we had kind of a a final draft of that then we went to the beautification and virus committee and they recommended uh their recommended body especially for a conservation and Coastal element that we had our chapter our infrastructure element and our Parks and Recreation and then they made a recommendation to our planning board into city council to trans met the plan and then we went on to the planning and Land Development regulation board for a uh transmittal hearing public hearing with them as well and um went through that draft and they as well um recommended adoption or not adoption but transmittal to the state for their review and then last week and also tonight we are at this part of the process where we are asking city council to transmit this document to the agency for their review we would uh submit that to the Florida Department of Commerce they distribute that out to other agencies such as uh the Florida Department of Transportation the St John's River Water Management District Northeast Regional planning Council and other agencies for their chance to review our draft plan so at this point of the transmitt here and I just want to be real clear it's not adoped we don't have a comp plan it is just a transmittal to the state for for their review and then after the uh State reviews what they're going to do is they're going to provide a report back to us called orc report objections recommendation report and within that report uh they'll have uh specific comments uh from each of the different agencies and then staff and our consultant we will take those comments and then we would try to address those comments uh from the state agency and then either have another workshop with the planning board or definitely have another uh planning board public hearing uh with them to have their recommendation come to city council and then we would come back to city council with the state's recommendation and any other comments that we may have uh or obtain during that period of time now once the state provides us comments we we are required uh to respond back or to have an adoption hearing within 180 days now we could extend that uh if if the state would allow that you know have to have have uh uh an excuse why we need to Extended but we do have a time period of 180 days to be able to adopt that plan and then once that plan comes back to city council then there's choices right you know you can either you know adopt it not adopt it or you know adopt it with changes so that is um definitely um part of the process and again um so and then that is just for the comp plan uh Amendment then then you know if the comp plan is adopted there's a lot of work that's going to be involved of of implementing the comprehensive plan through our Land Development code and that itself is going to be a year process for example tonight you know heard someone comment about buffers uh on the development of trees and I can tell you we heard that a lot from from the public so as you all as you recall on our conservation and Coastal section we talked about trees we talked about re-evaluating our our uh Land Development code to look at increasing the buffers uh in our trees and going through so they're still would be a lot of work to do and a lot of detail work to do coming within the next year so we're here um City staff's here for any comments and or any discussions I'll let you go first I know you have some questions so I don't have any questions I do have um quite a bit of comments to make so first of all let me thank staff and uh thank the public for all the input and thank you staff for everything that you've done for the comp plan um I expressed concern at the last meeting about the future land use map changes that are being implemented through this comp plan currently um out in the westw expansion area which will end up being about 20,000 Acres if the landowner is able to Annex in about 9,000 Acres from County a that it's intending to Annex in um currently the the the two pieces of property that they already own are zoned or are designated as dris so there's current development orders already in place for those two pieces of land in the future land use map we are changing that to this new land use category that we've created through the comp plan called the master plan mixed use the intent by the by the developer by the land owner is to then change these dris get rid of them and come to us with a proposed MPD my concern is accepting the future land use without seeing what they're getting rid of in the current dris and what the new mpds are proposing so what I did is I went and I looked at 250 Pages worth of the current drri to see what exactly are they getting rid of because I don't know because I didn't read it and I was floored at what I read I was disgusted I was uh truly sick to my stomach because it has come to my attention that a lot of the infrastructure that the current multi-billion doll land owner was supposed to put in for us taxpayers are paying for and they are paying for it in the form of State Appropriations let me be more clear on page 42 of the Neoga Lakes drri which is one of the dris out there it says Palm Coast Parkway extension not later than the issuance of building permits with which generate 1,400 external PM peak hour trips within the drri the developer shall cause to be constructed and dedicated to the city an extension of Palm Coast Parkway from US1 to hardgrove Grade Road this is to be called the Palm Coast Parkway extension and it goes into detail as to what exactly that that road has to look like it says this Improvement shall include an above grade overpass at the intersection of the FEC Railroad and a new Mass arm signal at the intersection of US1 and the Palm Coast Parkway extension it then goes on to further explain what exactly is going to be required for Palm Coast extension this is the Loop Road we got $105 million in state Appropriations also known as tax dollars to pay for something that in a previous drri that was entered into in 2010 a private multi-billion dollar company should have been paying for if we go on to page 44 it says pal Coast Parkway extension Phase 2 not later than the issuance of building permits which generate 4754 external PM peak hour trips within the drri the de the developer shall cause to be constructed and dedicated to the city a further extension of the Palm Coast Parkway from the project entrance at harro grave Lane to the drri Village Center and it goes on to provide specifics this goes on and on and on about improvements on US1 it affects improvements that are required in the city of benell County Road 13 for the county um all kinds of requirements what really just put the icing on the cake for me if we go to page 61 recreation in open space no later than 2 years from issuance of the first residential building permit within the drri the developer shall commence construction of a public park of up to 29 Upland Acres generally located at in the area depicted on a map that it describes and it says that the improvements to be constructed or caused to be constructed by the developer within the public park shall include but not be limited to a Junior Olympic swimming pool including changing rooms and restrooms a playground and playfields here we are jumping through hoops to try to get a charter Amendment passed in order to enter into a public private partnership for a lease on a sports complex that I think we should look into because of the tourism dollars that can come from it when all along this developer this land owner is supposed to be paying for it I am disturbed by this this is Corporate greed at its worst and it has fallen on the backs of the taxpayer and I will not stand for it I am a staunch Republican and this is not what our policies stand for so here's what I will state to staff to the developer to those representing the developer you better figure out how you're going to fix this when you come back to me I don't expect $105 million check to the residents of Florida but I do expect quite a bit in infrastructure improvements I expect to know what conservation is going to be set aside what recreation's going to be set aside what infrastructure we will get out of this because this is a 20 ,000 swath 20,000 ACR swath of land that is the future of our city and this developer that is going to conduct silver culture on it until they decide to build will make plenty of money they need to know I need to know what they're going to do for our residents so I don't want to hold up the comp plan because I respect too much the work that you all have done I expect I respect too much the hours that have been put into this up here and back there I respect too much What the residents have done to to provide their 85,000 comments or whatever it was I respect this process too much to put off the entire comp plan transmitt what I will say is when it comes back from the state before I even contemplate voting on abandoning those dris and accepting an MPD I want to see exactly what the landowner is going to do I want to know their plans I want to know what this is being replaced with I want to know what these dris are being replaced with I want specifics I want Maps I don't want to see oh well it can all be mixed use throughout this this 20,000 Acres that is not sufficient where are industrial parks because in the dris there are requirements for industrial parks in the drri there's requirements that certain Workforce housing be constructed prior to the rest of the housing all of the things that we've said are so important to all of us up here they're in the current dris when I ask the land owner why do you guys want to abandon these and they tell me oh they're not workable of course they're not workable for you they're workable for us and I don't work for the developer I work for the residents so my my I don't want to call it a warning but my advisement is this I want to transmit to the state because I think this is an overall good comp plan but please please hold them accountable our job as City Council and your job as staff is to hold them accountable to this because this is the future of our city so as we look at and I am asking my Council trust me reading these on my Saturday on the holiday weekend was worse than watching paint dry okay but please please please take some time and look at these and let's make sure that the new mpds the new development orders that come before us measure up to what we are supposed to be getting out of these dris thank you vice mayor ditto okay I don't know how else to say it but my concern though is if we approve this comp plan what guarantee do we have hold on let's go don't go so far that's not what she just said you're you're not approving anything you're yeah we're not appr well we're not approving it no you're just trans you're transmitting it and whatting what the council woman is saying I heard is that she wants to hold them accountable understand okay I heard what she said I understand it but even should we even transmit this at this point that's your question that's the question because are are we letting go of an opportunity to fix this and and please answer that I yeah so I I appreciate that I asked the same question of staff and of legal we had a pretty lengthy meeting about it today um because I don't want us to lose our leverage that's essentially what my concern was do we lose leverage over the developer and the landowner if we transmit I think the answer to that is no we don't because we still have to accept the new MPD so what staff just explained is that it gets transmitted to the state state makes their comments it comes back at that time if they don't have the MPD ready we say we don't accept so I like your warning shot I think it's dead on I think it does say a me send a message I know that this Council will probably vote to transmit this but I'm going to give you a no vote tonight as extra leverage that we're serious about we don't have a motion yet so well when we have a motion it will be a no vote for me as extra leverage and as an additional warning shot that they need to clean this up and and fix this before we move forward so so if I may just explain one thing because I I was in agreement it with you um the problem is it's almost like what comes first the chicken or the egg in order for them to put for the MPD we have to change we have to send the future land use map to the state so again I theoretically in a perfect world I'm with you um but again because we're not accepting this I'm okay with transmitting it to the state but I I just want to make it very clear again I won't accept it unless we see that they're giving us the hundreds of millions of dollars of infrastructure they're responsible to us for I fully agree councilman kofus comments yeah that's very spot on I think it's actually in alignment with what staff presented to us last time we spoke about this as far as directions specifically the kind of Chicken and the Egg situation that we got into so I appreciate the uh Stern warning and tough talks but I think it's actually continuation of what we elaborated the last time so yeah I think holding people accountable is absolute top priority but the staff I just want to say thank you to Ray's Team all of the time that theyve put in a tremendous amount of work has gone into this and at this point transmitting it then gives uh the council opportunity to critique it and continue this process this is not by a long shot anywhere near the finish line but this is just the first of many steps that need to occur sure councilwoman can you um put this into a a mo um so that I can uh put it out to the uh for public comment I would ask that the motion come from somebody else if somebody else wishes to make a motion I don't I don't wish to make a motion at this okay you don't you were very fluent and you had a list of things that uh with regard to the drri so you want that that can't happen yet that has to wait until it comes back I just just this is the motion regarding the transmitt and okay councilman Kus did you uh wish to make a motion yes I did absolutely uh I will move to I will I will make a motion as red because we cannot do the other things that were enumerated earlier so you you're gonna have to motion to approve as r as okay the advice is um a motion would need to be made as read as presented by staff okay yeah motion to approve as presented by staff I'm sorry there's a motion on the floor is there a second I will second the transmittal of the comp plan yes very good okay additional discussion by city council first now I will open up for public comment do any members of the public wish to comment on the motion that's on the floor go ahead come on up pull pull the mic a little closer just so we can hear what was that pull the mic a little closer to you so we can hear you it's getting late and I'm tired Gina wise Quil Hollow I feel you Teresa and thank you an aircraft noise management myu control constrains the conversation to only that which supports Aviation growth and it absolutely ignores suppresses or downright eliminates knowledge that does not align in the comprehensive City plan of 2025 and chapter 2 on Transportation the policy states the city shall support Flagler County's efforts to improve the Flagler County Airport the pl vague use of the word improve does not do anything to address the thousands of City residents suffering from student flight school menes of touch and goes with high noise levels and dangerous Maneuvers produced by The increased activity of student pilot training schools practicing repeated touch and goes all hours of the day and night holidays and weekends the owners of these flight schools the county and the airport manager has done nothing to mitigate the Intensive noise along with the safety impact and the dropping of Le fuel over our homes and environment to improve this untenable situation a number of Desperate Measures should be taking immediately the flight schools should be performing their touch and goes Maneuvers in areas far away from our dens L populated homes and away from populated areas in the community um also update the noise map which was supposed to be updated every 5 years to assess the pollution level of aircraft noise I don't know how they got away with this it hasn't been done in decades have curfews charged the flight schools a fee for every touch and go at our airport install sound insulation in existing homes schools and hospitals in high noise areas the county and the city can request airports to fund or subsidize these programs therefore demonstrating a commitment to our community's well-being The Winds of Change are in the air in Palm Coast you can see it and you could feel it but most of all you all heard it the way people are voting citizens are no longer supporting those who support developers home builders Builders or friends of these individuals citizens are voting for representative who support projects that will benefit the members of our community more Parks public pools senior community centers more green spaces to preserve and protect our flora and fauna to name a few citizens are voting against airport expansion does that mean the time is up almost keep going okay far too many years we have been lied to about the flight school Noise Okay so it's time as it was said that only two people are making complaints and the complaint portal is up to well over 4,000 over 4,000 Co thank you thank you for your comment uh next speaker okay Darlene Shelly um Palm Coast uh Miss pontier mentioned um 60 DB of noise um we measure in our yards and I'm probably a good four or five miles from the airport decb of over 65 sometimes U my friends in the z-section over 70 DB from the air planes every single day short-term rentals in Palm Coast are a big problem but they're every three five 7 Days um the airport is 247 um morning noon and night from 7:00 a.m. until sometimes past midnight the FAA describes the air Fort traffic pattern as a rectangular racetrack but it's much louder and infinitely more consistent than a racetrack a whereare are their protections for the residents of Palm Coast who outlined this 2050 comprehensive plan it reads as though scripted by landowners developers and those who will make a profit from the paving of Paradise one reference to the airport report in the 204 pages of the proposed comp plan that I spent my weekend reading painfully so is in Chapter 2 Transportation element policy 2.1.8 point1 quote the city shall support Flagler County's efforts to improve the County Airport and improve its capabilities in accommodating jet aircraft that's scary what does accommodate mean it goes on to say for airports in policy 1.19.1 9 development of the area identified as Economic Development Area number three of the airport area master plan shall consider the recommendations of the airport area master plan in order to ensure the long-term development of the Flagler County Airport um excuse me I uh it's all chopped up because I wanted to bring up different points as well um there are over 4,400 noise complaints on the noise abatement portal with no remedy there are hundreds of daily violations of the fly friendly guidelines that are in place with no accountability how about the city shall support the local residents and protect the safety Health and Welfare of its citizens by presenting a policy for the tax taxpayers and not in the best interest of the developers and there's many many other concerning things in here as far as supporting um multi-fam dwellings in residential neighborhoods that language is so concerning and I ask you not to transmit this proposal thank you for your comment next Shantel pinga I didn't get a chance to to uh read the documents for the uh TW uh 2050 comprehensive plan text and map series but I want to thank uh Teresa for looking into it and seeing that there is a red flag so that maybe it's not the time to push it Forward uh and also where can we find those documents so we can read them too where where are they staff will give you the contact okay thank you thanks thank you for your comment next Johnson Palm Coast um everyone grab your Parker because hell's about to freeze over I agree with Ed I mean seriously why are we pushing this through and transmitting it to the state when we shouldn't be and and furthermore I know a lot of work went into this but how is this such major oversight that staff didn't see this I mean this is literally their job we're really playing a risky game as far as the city goes in the future we're already short with our water treatment all of our sewage all of our basic necessities that we need and we are bringing in 20,000 Acres more of houses in a Dr with zero planning zero of the amenities all on the backs of the taxpayers it's disgusting it's downright wrong and it is extremely concerning I would highly advise that you don't just fire a warning shot you take this all off the table you sit there and you redo it from start to finish with good intentions in mind and quite frankly I would ask for 115 or whatever the number is back from the developers because that's what it's costing us everyone sees all these grants money grants money and all these great things people don't realize that Florida Inland you get charged every month money for that that is all taxpayer dollars even though it's all the this money that's floating around it's still money that the taxpayers are putting in and the constant complaint of all the residents is that we keep on seeing tax increases things cost more money this is reckless this is irresponsible and this is downright wrong and I would really commend our staff to do a much better job in the future I there any yes ma'am once more counil one uh CIA Pugi uh here since 91 once more cons woman uh pontier we had to appr appreciate your dedication I try myself start reading that long forever ending pages of this 2050 and honestly speaking I have no sympathy for it at all because there are these hidden things and I noticed some in the little that I read like you know with the airport issue um and also with the cell towers uh which it was resolv but it's like we have we don't have the confidence right now I am doubting I'm sorry and we have the expertise of Mr Tiner but with this important finding from uh conso woman Point how come is that it's going to be uh filed with the state you know we live on a state which is practically run by developers when this goes to the state they will right and now what are we going to get back from there are we going to be o o obligated uh because the drri is decided by the developer to be changed and uh we didn't do nothing before we uh fil it with the state so I don't know I have my serious doubts and also I am going to say one more here with the people that are close to the airport I heard today a citizen here when these people bought around the airport they didn't have the schools we don't have a problem with the airport we don't even have a problem with jet engine in the airport and having more jet engine business which is the good thing for the airport I was here when we didn't have schools on the airport and when Mr Darby chair of the County Commission right and the city was not they started talking about this in the beginning of the 2000 they decided to invite here schools you know they can stay here they can rent they oh listen by I said you're opening a kind of worm I was the only one Speaking against that there was the chair Mr Derby on the on the County Commission and he had an airport business within the airport and an aircraft business so you see this is what was been going on and this is the results that we have today we never had an problem with the airport our neighbors bought here confident their homes they found a home nice maybe they didn't see the planes at that time because the Realtors are are pretty smart probably I don't know but we have have had this issue with the schools especially since uh 2018 it started getting worse after they got all this FAA 69 Millions for the airport so this has to be resolved it's 5,000 people complaining and they're having a horrible time there thank you uh next uh next speaker Dennis McDonald I'm I sit here and I listen to the discussion on the comp plan and certainly have read some of it online and and then of course it gets turned around to all the the noise uh questions that come up about the airport but here's a question for you that um I don't understand you can't enforce any of this okay Barbara doesn't have a means of doing this you can set all the deciel levels in the world but you can in enforce it how do you enforce it what mechanism does this city have to enforce a deciel level whether it be with neighbors or whatever is there a process I've never found one I've inquired about it and I'm told well if you call the sheriff's department well then you have to take it up with the city and the city doesn't have any means that I know of or in the past has any way to enforce that or know what that is to be able to to put that in in some type of Quantified uh um method so uh I think before you know you guys make all these rules about this stuff but you guys can't get it to the ground that's what's the problem with this city okay lots of rules but you can't get it to the ground so I would really suggest that on this comp plan you leave it right here in Palm Coast and have these guys work on it some more because this is not ready for Prime Time thank you are there any other members of the public that would like to comment at this time Jessica Matthews I wasn't going to speak tonight I came here to listen and just take it in and start being more involved um and I just want to thank councilman councilwoman pontier your true definition of integrity fighting for what's right even if it's the unpopular opinion I am appalled at what I just learned there's lots of head shaking going on up here but no one else took their holiday weekend and dove into those papers as she did we participated my husband and I participated in the comp plan activities and yet many of the things that we noticed all the little dots we put on boards all of these games we played nothing was really in favor of this western expansion the western expansion um it's just something that's being honestly pushed down our throats from certain individuals we can't take care of the things that we have in place now how many times has it been said about the water about the lack of police presence about the lack of fire presence a lack of Code Enforcement it is constantly being told to us and nothing's being done about it when we were here fighting for seminal Woods I'm sure you remember remember that just a few months ago the developers attorney sat right here and blamed City staff specifically Mr Papa and said it was his fault that there was a a mistake missed I will tell you right now I approached Mr Douglas and told him that he should definitely apologize to him and so should his lawyer because that was not Mr Papa's mistake so my question is when do we put City Staff first when do we put the residents first because all it seems to be is pro development and we're missing the residents again a lot of head shaking but she's the only one who has ever had our support thank you are there any other are there any other members of the public that would like to comment to me at this time seeing no one come forward I'll come back to the de um final comments I have no final comments I just would like legal to explain um kind of what the necessity is once the comp plan if we decide to transmit once it comes back because I expressed the same concerns that we're hearing from the residents that if we transmit we're accepting the comp plan but that seems to be a different process so if you could explain that I'd appreciate it yeah that's a great question so yeah right now this is viewed as a proposal that is going to be submitted that you guys are voting on that requires a majority vote uh once uh if you guys do decide to transmit this tonight that pretty much says it goes towards the state and all the agencies that Mr Tiner described then after that the agencies give our their comments back and then we have 180 days from that period to decide whether we want to adopt this make some changes but we cannot adopt anything nothing is final until that second uh reading this is kind of a first reading right now okay so my suggestion to State and I would ask for city council support I mean not state to staff woo it's 10:41 is late um and I would ask for city council support on this this when this comes back from the state this needs to be an incredibly public heavy process just bear in mind is up to 180 days so just right I I and that's six months that's plenty of time you could well be the only one here that you're talking to no no no I understand that but I but I I guess what I'm looking for from my fellow council members is direction to staff because that's what we do we give them policy Direction as to what the public and transparency process will be when this comes back in other words um when the MPD that these will be that these dris will be applied to be changed to when those come before us it needs to be out to the public we need to be very transparent we need to have multiple public hearings in my opinion on this um correct me if I'm wrong Marcus is this uh is is voting on an MPD quasi judicial yes yes yes sorry it's okay so unfortunately we can't have a workshop on it because then that's exp party Communications we can only do two public hearings for the ordinance however the developer can do lots of public meetings um and get out into the public and and do proposals for what they're suggesting they can get out to the public and tell them all about the hundreds of millions of dollars that they're going to provide an infrastructure improvements that they are currently bound to in the dris so um I would ask that staff please push them to do so knowing that we up here can only have two public hearings for voting on that MPD and I promise all of you regardless of how large that proposed MPD is I will be picking it apart with the fine tooth comb and making sure that the residents are represented councilman kofus any final comments before I call the vote nope uh the city is still in the driver's seat and I feel like there's a lot of talk right now as if this hasn't been a very transparent and Incredibly uh time intensive process that we have reached a zillion people and I hope that continues to be the case but it's not a change of course it's a continuation of course uh but no that's all I have to say will the clerk call the vote please vice mayor Denko no council member kuus I council member pontier yes mayor Alin yes the motion passes three to one we now move to resolutions under number May H Mr Mayor I do have to interrupt so uh my apologies but your policies and procedures do require that you adjourn at 11:00 unless you uh have a motion by majority to extend it or or you're just let me get through this and I I'll explain so you have some options okay you it's 10:44 10:44 I'm watching the clock too I got it yeah so you can either all right let's do it now okay um y i just saying if you cannot get this done everything done before 11 o'cl we would do need to table these things a motion to probably the next hearing is what I would what I was going to ask first is I can extend it with uh with consensus till 11:30 yes if there is a majority that agreed to that yes so let me try that the easy way first do you all want to dig through this till 11:30 or do you want to cut it off at 11: let's do it let's do it I'm good till 11:30 councilman kuus are you in the same time zone you if you I'm in the I'm in the same time zone good with 11:30 my one remaining question though is why can we not have a workshop on a quasi judicial issue I didn't understand that okay uh Marcus go ahead statutory requirements it's a statute requirement we able to hear that sure it's because of the number of parties that uh are exchanging information you can Oh you mean okay if the party was actually uh present well I think correct me if I'm wrong mark essentially yeah we're having X party Communications that could influence the subsequent vote and so then presumably we'd have to disclose all of those Communications that occurred at that workshop and certify that none of that um influenced our vote is that no that that's very accurate I good and it's also you you're always welcome to have a workshop and then a business meeting but that's not required but yeah normally it's it's generally we don't do workshops for COA judicial councilman Kus does that give you a satisfactory answer sure I I think EXC yeah that's fine okay no okay we now move to agenda letter H and resolution so counselor if you're ready read that inform me yes sorry resolution 2024 dxx certifying the 2024 primary election results okay mayor and city council uh Yep this is a standard item in accordance with our city Charter to certify the um supervisor of elections 2024 primary results are you asking for a a motion and a vote here okay any questions councilman clus any questions regarding certification of the uh primary election just held nope all good then I'll go ahead and uh open it up to the public any uh comments from the public at this time seeing no one come forward I'll close public comment and I will ask for a motion the vice mayor has made a motion to hold on to certify the 2024 primary election results I'll second vice mayor is that did I say yes that's what I said yes and I have a second from councilman pontier um any additional discussion all in favor please signify by saying I I I I are there any opposed the motion passes unanimously thank you we now move to number eight Council if You' go ahead read that in resolution 2024 dxx approving the Old Kings Road special assessment role to be transmitted to the flager County Tax Collector good evening mayor city council uh the item in front of you today is for the approval of the annual special assessment on the all Kings Road taxing district the annual assessment is for the repayment of Road improvements associated with phase one project the assessment was first added to the Ro in 2013 and will remain for a period of 30 years it is expected to be repaid in 2043 once approved the city clerk will send the resolution to the text collector have any questions any questions for uh Helena I have none councilman clus any questions on the item nope so let's thank you let's go ahead and make a motion do you need to send it out the public I'll do it after the motion okay I I'll I'll make the motion to approve to uh let's let's be just a little more specific to approve the old the transed to the Old Kings Road special assessment role to be transmitted to the flagor County Tax Collector very well done thank you may I have a second I will second that wonderfully stated motion second from councilwoman pontier um now I will open it up to the public uh yes sir Dennis McDonald real quick um you heard me earlier talk about the um SE and water Enterprise fund this money for the Old Kings Road special assessment District none of you were around in this city at the time this $6 million came out of the sewer and the water uh Enterprise fund we tracked it uh we know exactly where it came from when we had our meeting with Chris um you know many many years ago uh we found everything and it was all done with a forensic CPA okay so we know where it was we know what it is and so you're seeing the result of it now you took $6 million out of the sewer and water fund at least 10 years ago I think that was 2010 or 12 or something like that imagine what it had would have grown to at this point and what we could be using it for right now but yet we're lending it out and losing money because there's a a process an an equation that you can run that actually shows you how much money you lose when you lend it out you today and collect it over a term was I believe 2043 ridiculous it hurt us thank you for your comment are there any other members of the public that would like to comment on this item at this time seeing no one come forward then I guess I will ask the clerk to call the the vote roll call please B mayor Denko yes council member kuus I council member pontieri yes mayor Alin yes the motion passes unanimously we now now move to item number nine under letter H which is uh councelor if you'd read it in for me resolution 2024 XX approving final nuisance abatement assessment good evening mayor city council um you first heard this item on July 16th that's when we send out the initial nuisance abatement just as a reminder nuisance abatement is when the city has to rectify an issue and then bills the property owner um they have an opportunity to pay that bill if they don't pay the bill we put it on the on the tax rooll and collected uh that method um since the initial uh role was done in July we've collected some funds the remaining funds that are going to go on the tax roll are 11 15,590 questions for Mr dorenzo councilman Kus councilman Kus any questions nope I have none all right let's do the same process uh I'm going to ask for a motion I'll make a motion approving the resolution which approves the final nuisance abatement assessment councilwoman panary has made the motion uh vice mayor Dano has seconded any further discussion um I will uh let's see we've already been out to the public I'm sorry we have not new debate we have not I will open this up to the public for uh comment okay this uh welcome funds that are collected uh on which account are they going to be going into I'll let staff answer your question okay are there any other members of the public that would like to comment on this issue at this time seeing no one come forward I'll come back to the days let's follow the same procedure and do a a roll call vote please vice mayor Dano yes council member kuus yes council member pontier yes mayor Alin yes the motion passes unanimously we've already uh covered item number 10 mayor did you want Jason to answer he's answering okay he can do that we do need a vote for item number 10 because it's accepting a grant oh I'm sorry we didn't do that before okay um took the chat ran well it's not bad okay um I'll accept a motion um I'll make that aemotion to take the chck check and run would you like to mention the amount uh what was it was it 5,000 yeah it was 5,000 I'll take I'll make a motion to accept the 5,000 is there a second oh second very good um any further um any further discussion let me put it out to the public uh I don't think we did that earlier um does any member of the public wish to comment on the acceptance of the fine grant for the Waterway cleanup seeing no one come forward I'll close public comment and I think we can uh uh do a Voice vote all in favor please signify by saying I I are there any opposed the motion passes unanimously thank you thank you city manager for catching that for us now we'll move to number 11 and counselor if you would read that in for us please resolution 2024 dxx approving a Construction contract project contingency and construction engineering inspection services for the Old Kings Road Force main improvements project good anything Council Alex Blake City Palm Coast utility engineer so this project involves a trunk line Force main it's a large trunk line 24 in um the main purpose of this project is to facilitate the pumping capabilities of three existing Master pump stations uh it will be constructed in the o Road Corridor just south of utility drive and down utility drive so the entire length of it is about 1.7 miles it's will be contained mostly in a existing utility easement on the east side of Old Kings Road so we don't expect hardly any U you know traffic impacts or such you know to inconveniences to the public um additionally it's also mostly horizontal directional drill which is a trenchless technology um that will also limit the impacts to the community um while the construction is being done there's a little bit of work on the intersection of the uh Old Kings Road and utility drive that would have to be done probably going to be night work be closed down most likely to one lane for a few days um and aside from that it um you know we're we've been wanting to do this project for quite some time and this is really just the construction phase of something that was approved earlier for this which was the design of the project questions from City Council Members I have none councilman no questions thank you and councilman clus anything uh particular to this no okay then I would ask for a motion we'll use the same process again I'll make a motion to approve this Construction contract um for the Old Kings Road Forest main perfect Improvement project thank you sir I will second and so I have a motion and a second uh any further discussion so let me open it up to the public any uh comment from the public yes ma'am selia Panos again um I see this is a sizable project like over a mile so how much is the cost of that 5.2 million I I could imagine they wording two millions okay so I I guess this comes out of the uh Enterprise Utility Fund right it is partially funded through arpa funding which is $2.5 million in American Rescue plan the remainder of which is existing Capital monies on for this scheduled project yes so we had a grun that's a good thank you for your comment any other members of the public wish to comment on this issue at this time seeing no one come forward I'll close public comment and I I think a Voice vote would be sufficient here um all in favor of approving please signify by saying I I I I are there any opposed the motion passes unanimously thank you we now move to letter I on the agenda which is the consent agenda so I'll go first to city council was there a question I have no questions I don't have any questions I just want to make a comment on uh number 14 I want to give kudos the procurement it appears the initial contracts that you all entered into did not include a few necessary components um you went back and got us a better contract that did include all the necessary components so I know procurement has been taking a lot of heat Lately from the public um so I I want to commend you on getting a full contract uh making sure that we're protected and getting everything that we are bargaining for so thank you for that than thank you for your comment councilman Kus any comment on the consent agenda no I have no items on the consent agenda so I'll open up the consent agenda now for public comment are there any members of the public that would like to comment on the consent agenda please come forward yes all these consent agendas I think it like I just found out a sizable uh cost and I hope that for the for the best interest of the taxpayers uh each of these uh uh contracts that get for government work would go through the three beads at least necessary to work out the best prices for our dollar thank you for your comment are there any other members of the public that would like to comment on the consent agenda at this time seeing no one come forward I motion to approve the consent agenda we're back here and the vice mayor has made a motion to approve the consent agenda is there a second I'll second I have a second from Council woman pontier any further disc discussion none from me all in favor please signify by saying I I are there any opposed the motion passes unanimously we now conclude with final public participation are there any members of the public that would like to make a final comment on any item that was not previously discussed on tonight's agenda Council Dennis McDonald the reason that uh I made a point of coming back I wanted to do some research to make sure that I was in the right spot here so one of the things that I saw take place earlier was this vote on the referendum okay where Mr Dano and councilman pontier voted no uh and there were two votes that were yes but yet what I recalled from having read over over the city uh Charter uh again recently because of another issue was when I came to uh item eight City Council meetings organizational meeting Quorum and special meetings when you go to 8B it simply says Quorum a majority of the council including the mayor shall constitute a quorum no action of the council shall be valid unless adopted by an affirmative vote of the majority of the council members and the mayor in attendance okay tonight we have Mr kuus on some telephone okay and all of us and I had many people in the hallway uh you know comment to me clus is cutting in and out you could hear it you know uh he was obviously headed on on some type of mute situation we can't see him we don't even know if that's Mr Kus so here's what else it says says all actions of the city Council shall be by ordinance resolution okay I don't know of an ordinance or a resolution that allows you to have Mr kuus on a telephone okay I mean uh this is simply bizarre you had a two to2 vote it was a really important vote you saw the people that were here they were really angry about this and it just rubbed me wrong so here's what I did I asked my wife who spent eight years on the school board and she told me that that any time that she called in her C her she could participate in the meeting okay that's what the attorney said and the state said but her vote did not count because she was not in attendance so I don't know exactly what's going on here tonight I know that there's a lot of things that you don't pay attention to when you get advice from your attorney I've watched that happen a couple times but I'm telling you you're in viol ation to your Charter as I see it so unless you can come by some ordinance or resolution that shows us how Mr kuus can vote on some remote telephone cutting in and out with his mute button on okay I think you have a two to1 vote is what you have okay and putting that forward to the soe and putting it on a federal ballot I think would be a huge mistake on your part so um I think you need call that vote back or call it for what it is it was two to one thank you for your comment any other members of the public want to comment um uh final comments for this evening seeing none I will come back to city council any final comments this evening I just want a clarification from our attorney on what we just heard from Mr Mcdonald so we'll refer to uh Robert rolls I would think there is an attorney general opinion that states that if your uh policiy and predes do not require your person to be in person to vote you are allowed to appear by virtual as long as you have Quorum in the room tonight we had three people out of five present therefore Mr Kus can appear virtually and vote thank and I I don't ask it for this particular reason but we've done this you know it started with Co obviously but then we've done this in the No No No it started back started back with the original charter right but I I remember though we really did it a lot during Co before obvious procedure so um you know I just wanted a clarification thank you Council any uh final I have nothing thank you nor do I so I'll go to councelor any final comments for this evening none for me thank you for your help this evening city manager yes sorry I have one um I I apologize you I was cutting in and out I'm sure I don't want to hear it uh any final comments tonight please yes no no comments from me I'm just curious whether or not that's good Nick because we said you could vote but you don't get the comment at the end city manager please proceed feel I was just wondering MD but I mean that's okay city manager please proceed uh thank you mayor um yes last week um we had the Joint City County Workshop um and we discussed several topics one of those being the request to use law enforcement impact fees um it was at the board of County commission's discretion of using those impact fees that $887,000 that the Sheriff's Office budget was reduced by this Council I'm seeking um policy direction if uh you would like to have those monies back into your budget for Thursday's hearing uh we could take that direction and then go forth with that councilwoman you have a um a strong opinion on that would you like to go ahead and offer Direction then we'll we'll consense yeah so um I had wanted the $887,000 to come from the impact fees that the county holds for us that we collect and um upon looking at the inter local agreement that we have with them it states that those impact fees can only be used for Capital Construction so we cannot use them to offset the growth related costs of the sheriff's new contract so um I don't want to Short change the sheriff he didn't ask for any new deputies last year he is this year I think with our growth we need it um I will make the comment that this is another cost of growth that unfortunately our general fund is paying for um but I do think that the contract needs to be funded so I would suggest the council that the monies be put back in that's my stance on it I'm fine with it very good so does that help you yes mayor thank you we'll make the um adjustments for Thursday's presentation anything else no mayor councilman kuus would you like to make a motion to adjourn hey I will motion to adjourn may have a and I have a second from vice mayor we are adjourned