e e e e sound check 1 23 sound check 1 23 e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e good morning everybody today is Friday September 6 2024 welcome to the planning committee meeting uh before we get started if everyone can just take a moment now look at your electronic device make sure it's turned to quiet mode so we don't get any interruptions during the meeting that would be appreciated thank you uh we have Quorum for today's meeting and would' like to call this meeting to order welcome to staff members of the public and to committee members around the chamber we have councelors mcmein Wang Nan Francis Dano cret Clark and Alex Wilson online we have counselor Moren Wilson Bey and T and welcome everybody let's get started uh clerk KY are there any changes to the agenda yes chair casar we have uh under delegation request 6.1 the delegation from Albert Lewis with curo Canada has been withdrawn we have added delegation 6.2 Mike Cowen respecting the mecp application for 354 Nash Road North which is item 11.1 and that's for today's meeting item 6.3 delegations respecting amending the Property Standards by law respecting air conditioning appliances item 11.4 is being deferred to a future meeting and we have added 6.4 delegations respecting self storage facilities review uh from Peter deio and Andrew soave under public hearings 10.1 applications for a zoning bylaw Amendment and draft plan of of condominium for lands located at 285 and 293 Fiddlers Green Road we have an added written submission from Beth guer and Gary TUF as well as the added staff presentation under discussion items uh 11.2 self storage facilities review we have an added staff presentation 11.4 Property Standards bylaw respecting air conditioning appliances is being deferred to a future meeting and 15.2 is an added private and confidential item update on appeal to the Ontario land Tribunal for refusal of official plan Amendment application and Zoning bylaw Amendment application for lands located at 392 to 22 sorry from 392 to 412 Wilson Street East and 15 Lauren Avenue thank you very much and also one amendment to our attendance councelor Paul's is here in Chambers with us as well okay may I have a mover and second the agenda be approved as amended councelor Nan councelor Wang we will go to the vote the vote is up that carries unanimously moving on to Declarations of Interest members of committee are there any Declarations of Interest today seeing none we will move along item four is approval of minutes of the previous meeting 4.1 is August 13 2022 four and we do have one Amendment uh Council Marine Wilson voted on 9.3 when she had intended to abstain so may have a mve in secondary to approve those minutes councelor Nan councelor Pauls any discussion seeing none we'll go to the vote that carries uh 11 with one exstension okay we are now on to delegation requests first delegation request 6.2 Mike Cowen respecting the mecp application for 354 Nash Road which is item 11.1 on today's agenda so Mike are you here request oh requests yes request thank you and 6.4 uh delegation respecting self storage facilities item 11.2 P doio Metropolitan Consulting and Andrew sve hopefully we'll get a correction on the pronunciation at the right time so could have a move in second to approve those delegation requests councelor uh Wang councelor Alex Wilson any discussion okay we'll go to the vote and that carries unanimously we are now on to delegations I was getting ahead of myself and before we begin our delegations members are reminded that questions of the delegations are for clarification purposes only and not for debate and to all of our delegates uh you have five minutes for your delegation you'll hear a ding at the 4minute Mark and then another tone at five minutes um and which point you should aim to finish up so our first delegation is 7.1 Aisha ashar respecting property standards and tenant concerns and this is a virtual delegation good morning Aisha good morning uh Council can you guys hear me we can hear you just fine you have the floor go ahead perfect um so I had sent my presentation ahead of time I just don't have it with me so if anyone in the council they want to present in the screen for the others that'll be great do we have the ability to put that on the screen do we have it here available um if not then I can just like talk to the presentation anyway and people can like have a copy of it after the fact whatever is easier for the council members here why don't you go ahead to speak to it and then a copy can be added to the agenda is it what is thank you um oh okay it already is in the agenda perfect thank you so for those of who uh those of the members who don't know my name is Aisha Asar um my story of housing has been in Hamilton spectator for the last couple of months uh just because of the fact that like I purchased my home in Hamilton and um due to the LTB delays the uh the renters uh who are staying there illegally uh they decided to stay um going forward as as per given their right by the law uh but what at what started happening as a part of my closing process was that they started like doing severe damage to my home uh this was not just limited to the fire damage this was also uh extended to uh El um electrical wiring issues around the home and also um as of now they have like turned my home into a drug Den uh even though I have an eviction in process but what I'm here in front of the council today is is to talk about that how there is like lack of support at least what I learned through the process is that there's lack of support for homeowners and small landlords within the city of Hamilton so if you and um if you go to page one please yes so if you see the data over here and this data is from statistics Canada 2023 this looks at exclusively data for city of Hamilton um there is a breakdown of like how many private households there versus owner and renter uh renter occupied are almost 35% whereas owner occupied are 65% or so uh the reason I'm showing this data to you is is because I also understand that the one of the bigger things for the council is to like look at like how we can like Provide support support for like future housing Supply but going back to my point is that like there is an opportunity here to to increase housing supplies by like encouraging existing homeowners to provide housing and like provideing providing Rental Supply to the vider population so that we are not like running into issues of encampments and homelessness but what it comes down to is is that people are scared people are uh people do not have trust because there is no support for them and that is something that I learned as a proud of my process there were almost were 30 violations which have been reported to the bylaw committee uh sorry the bylaw standards officer there were reports which were made to uh the Hamilton fire department as well and all they did was that they were constantly coming by and giving warning warnings and instead of like actually giving fines my point is that like you when there are I do understand from a bylaw perspective that they you want to like recover your dollars but you you also have to like make the system fair and what we have right now in terms of bylaw enforcement is that like if I as a homeowner or as a landlord if I'm doing something uh to the home to the to the building which is not up to the standards I get fine for it which is fair and square right because I have to abide by the city and the standards that I'm living in but if I'm renting it out and if I'm like helping out the wider Community uh there is no support for me LTB I want to tell you LTB will not like evict anyone even if they burn down your house even if they burn down your house they will not do that there are multiple case laws out there which which can prove that and I'm not making it up uh if you go to slide two uh sorry slide three please and slide three I'm looking at like how what is the shelter cost like how much people are spending versus uh the income of household and again this is just for within the Hamilton a city of Hamilton as well like there there is also like huge income uh I believe you're showing the wrong slide ma'am you have to go to the previous one thank you uh so this data basically shows that like how many people are spending money in terms of like just shelter cost and and at the end of the day it is a supply and demand issue if there are like more more Supply which is available in the community the rent the overall rental will like come down and if people would know especially homeowners or smaller small landlords that hey you know what like if there is something which goes wrong I have support from the bylaw I have support from the city even though LTB is taking longer we there is like recourse available on Municipal level and that will support your overall CA of in increasing housing supply for people within the city of Hamilton um that's your five minutes do you have a sentence or two you could wrap up with uh that is basically my pitch to the council today that there has to be a change to reflect uh Hamilton homeowners there has to be some like support for them okay thank you for your delegation I'll pause here to see if there are any questions from committee members councelor way go ahead thank you Aisha your um your story has been in The Spectator significantly and I'm sorry for all of the the heartache that you have um experienced recently uh my question for you is that the LTB is slow but I know that they they have been advancing your case so when it comes to the LTB um a lot of that is outside of the realm of our control so in terms of finishing up your presentation I wonder if you could give us a sense of where you think we can affect the bylaws um from a Property Standards perspective that is in support of your ask of helping homeowners so perhaps you could just finish up the last little bit of your presentation that kind of speaks about what is the what is the ask in a more fome sort of manner for sure um so counselor Wang um I'm just going to give an example and this is something that I have had conversations with like multiple other homeowners who are who are like landlords not like myself who became a force landlord is that like when they go to the city and say that like hey um there is like uh bylaw violation for like the lawn or like bylaw violation for like um the fire um the response that they usually receive from City officials or like the bylaw officers or even like the fire inspectors is that uh we do not find the renters uh because it is tied to your property tax roll and like we want the fines to like FL flow through the homeowners and what it does is that like what it creates an environment where there is no accountability for actions there is no recourse um people can be just like okay yeah I can do whatever I want and there are no fines there is there's nothing which deters them so what I'm asking or like what I'm proposing to the council here to consider is that like perhaps if you start like imposing fines and be strict about it not just like going in and giving warnings in my case as an example um the fire inspector came in he saw that like there was a severe hoarding condition he saw that like all the fire alarms were damaged on all the floor and he basically came and gave a warning I'm like okay so when do you actually impose fines even though from the fired standards perspective under Ontario fire code the fire inspectors can impose fines up to like $50,000 not saying that they need to go to the max but they have like an opportunity to like deter that behavior and that is something which is not happening uh from the BW perspective BW have seen like the inside condition of my home as well as to like how severely it is damaged and uh instead they were like no you need to like you know fix this yada yada yada and and in my case baw has been there like at least over like 30 times or so they could have just like simply started like giving out fines because once they issued the order in my case that's when at least the the folks who are like occupying my home right now they started like getting a bit more concerned that like this is serious because for them just like an officer showing up at the door it was not serious for them and so that is my ask of the council to consider thank you Aisha a second question then through you chair um you you made mention of you became an accidental landlord so I know that when you purchased your house the the tenants were already there but did you already strike up an agreement that they would continue paying their rents to you thereby becoming a landlord or had you actually already started on the process of actually evicting them knowing that you were going to move in so the fact that they were still there you're not really the landlord they're just still there is I I'm trying to get clear on that problem I can explain it to you so when I purchased the home as a part of my offer I had put forward that like this is going to be my primary home um they were provided like proper notices which are provided uh for the residential tency act um there is a form called n12 they were provided like a compensation as a result of it uh again per the uh legislation as well and they were given a date of by which they need to like vacate um which was like 60 days but we gave them 80 and that was like May 31st so but what LTB or sorry not LTB residential tency act says that like unless you get heard at landlord and tenant tenant board you do not have to leave even though you have received your notices and um you you you have like you know receiv received like all the letter by the law it says like within the document itself so when I say that like I became accidental landlord because in Ontario you have tenure of um of your lease meaning that like the only person who can evict you is the landlord tenant board the the owner the landlord itself can't just like evict you uh even though if they give you the proper notice so on and so forth does that helps your question yes thank you very much those are all my questions thank you chair hey thank you councelor Wang we also have councelor Bey and then councelor Dano go ahead councelor Bey thank you chair and through you uh youa thank you for being here today my my knowledge base in the subject matter is not nearly as developed I think as yours has become and I'm I'm sure that yours has become very knowledge you've become very knowledgeable very quickly because you've had to was a fored exper it was not but I had to I had to like make myself be more well versed in the legislation yeah yeah I wanted to ask you a question Aisha I think that I heard in your presentation something and I'm wondering if we could just tease it out for a minute um when bylaw comes is it your understanding that a if you are a landlord and you have a tenant and that tenant will characterize as being problematic uh perhaps not adhering to Property Standards bylaws the bylaw is uh applied to the property owner not necessarily the tenant so if if there's a violation and you're in a an area of dispute with your tenant at the moment or you're just not able to resolve anything you actually as the property the the small landlord you receive the fine not the one that's actually creating the problem is that you're understanding that is correct uh uh counselor Beetle that is actually what takes place okay and I'm um chair I'm wondering if and when it might be appropriate just if I could get from the bench maybe a a verification of on our end how how that works sure once we receive a delegation then we can ask questions of Staff okay thank you very much ASA um sorry that you've had to uh grow in your knowledge so quickly in such an unfortunate circumstance and and I hope that there's a resolution for you in the future thank you okay thanks councelor Bey councelor Dano thank you chair uh I really appreciate the the delegation and uh for Isa to bringing this to to council's attention you know we spend a lot of time talking about uh tenant uh rights and tenant p uh protections but we don't spend a lot of time talking about um what happens when you have a dead beat tenant that abuses the system as is seems to have happened in this case um so I I think you know we're clear that the landlord tenant board is a provincial responsibility that the city doesn't have jurisdiction over that but we're talking about the bylaw component some excellent questions from uh from councelor Bey um but I just wanted to ask a question about a the bigger picture here because the incident that you're describing um is not entirely uncommon and I think is probably one of the big reasons that small individual whether it's a family or or a small investor would not want to invest in residential uh rental property and do you think that because of this this type of situation where the law is so skewed towards the tenant um that is restricting the supply of rental housing because investors are like I'm not going to deal with that I'm not going to invest I'm not going to get involved so I can tell you that I have been speaking with um solo so solo is a small ownership landlord organization which uh which is an advocacy group and it came out of like the covid pandemic when all the evictions were stopped and and I usually as a part of like my process I'm just giving you a context C I basically observed and because I had to prepare for my hearing so I basically observed um LTB hearings almost on a daily basis like people are leaving the rental housing Supply I'm not talking about like big investors like the Black Rock Ventures who have like insane amount of portfolio or the REITs I'm talking about like smaller people Canadians hardworking um who are we're like putting it as like their um like you know their their future their reti whatever the case may be or for their kids and they are leaving people are going up into non-rental a re uh reers of like up to 50K and they are leaving the the case which was publicized by the um in global news of N and they're saying in h City of Toronto where he has been trying to evict for non-payment and this is not even that they the person has done anything this is just non-payment uh it's over now 50 $50,000 and he's like you know what I'm just gonna go ahead and leave and the problem is that again because there is no recourse there is no one who can like do anything for them so even by like providing this like small scate a small like I guess like leg up it will encourage people to like come in and like it will encourage people to like open their doors to like make that Supply available and again going back to the the principle of supply and demand affordable housing is only going to happen if you have like enough enough homes available for people to take in uh like I I do understand that like you know LTB is like you know not something that like we that the city can influence but we can influence our own bylaws which can support more investment from our own community members so that they're not going outside thank you Isa thank you for bringing this to your attention thank you councel Dano we have another speaker councelor Pauls go ahead thank you uh for your delegation a couple of months ago I had that same problem on upper wenworth uh a landlord called me and said that his tenant is putting all kinds of garbage in the backyard and he actually put an old car there and it's taking the whole backyard so I said to so he said he called bylaw and bylaw said oh we'll come and clean it up but you're going to have to pay so I went to his house three times and I really order is there a question yes yes there is yeah if you just go to the question councelor Paul please well everybody else has a preamble briefly excuse me I have five minutes councelor pa okay just ask your question okay the question okay I just want to set the the thing what's happened the what happened was that bylaw say you have to clean it up in certain day or you'll be charged obviously the tenant didn't so the landlord decided I told him please you clean it up he cleaned it up and still got a and still got a ticket so I'm just wondering what is the right bylaw what are we doing and maybe this is a question for bylaw I don't understand it because I went to that house three times and he got fined for cleaning it but because he was not on time cleaning it uh so we do have a problem so I want to thank you for coming and sharing that because I think we need to solve this thank you and I'll ask a question to bylaw or maybe others have brought that up thank you okay there are no more speakers thank you very much Aisha and we will once we receive the delegation have an opportunity to ask staff questions second to receive the delegation councelor Wang councelor Nan we will go to the vote and the vote is up thumbs up from councel Pauls okay that carries unanimously so I'll pause here for a moment because I think there were going to be some questions on the matter to staff are there any speakers y okay we'll just get the speakers list assembled okay councelor Bey followed by councelor Pauls go ahead councelor Bey thank you chair and through you um my question to staff just trying to um understand or verify the experience that the deleg got described whereby if um the scenario I think that was described was if a property owner um causes an issue paining to Property Standards and byla is called the property owner is their VI you know it's their their actions that created the problem and the remedy is that they are fined what the delegate described is that uh a small landlord that may have a problematic tenant the tenant has created the infraction but it is the landlord that is responsible for paying the fine and I'm just trying to understand if that is effectively what's what's taking place look to the benchor through the chair to the counselor Monica cello director of Licensing and bylaw Services if I understand your question correctly what we do is we enforce against the property owner if it is a rental property a landlord is responsible to maintain the property that's how it's captured in our bylaw and that is how it's a referen in provincial legislation I appreciate the frustration of the landlords and I think it demonstrates a delicate situation that mle is put in when we are balancing a landlord and a tenant relationship and so what we do is we enforce under our bylaws if it is a Property Standards matter it is um an order against the landlord yes if if I could add one one more piece this is just a little bit beyond your question but I think it will add some context typically if we do get a complaint from um a property that may be a rental we may try to work with the landlord and you may see us give more warnings opposed to going and charging because we know that those charges or sending the work to contractor will ultimately be put on the landlord themselves thank you director councilor Bey thank you director and through the chair um I think that your comments director Siro mirror what the um the delegate was speaking to in fact that there's a series of warnings warnings warnings warnings but the the fine is never necessarily levied because from the mle perspective there's a perhaps a sensitivity or an understanding that you know the only mechanism that we have as municipality and through mle is to find the property owner not the one that's actually creating the issue and I'm I am I'm a little troubled by that um the the current system um and and this is gosh this is probably a hot button topic uh chair because we we do want to ensure that that our tenants are given uh protections we've worked very hard to create that but I feel like I've just uncovered a bit of a blind spot um that there may be there may be something else at play here and and some of the direction if we're hearing about a loss of capital people leaving the rental market space because they have uh experienced a lot of trouble that's that's the opposite of what we want to see happen here we're trying to create more rental spaces and more housing availability so I don't know at what point we're going to have to delve into this conversation but I think it's going to be an important one so thank you chair that's all thanks councelor Bey councelor Paul you had questions for staff okay thank you actually you know you did answer that uh that uh the landlord gets um ticketed but I'm just wondering why we would penalize the owner again for him cleaning it because he didn't do it in such and such a time that's my question you had a time limit and they said we can't do cuz I I dealt with that uh uh landlord and uh I just was shocked I was shocked that we penalized the owner for cleaning it and then because he didn't do it in time is that what we do is that what our bylaw does through the chair to the counselor if I understand your question correctly why did the property owner get penalized yes for having to clean up the the piece of property yeah so our process is either to issue a fine if there's non-compliance with the bylaw and or send it to contractors if there is non-compliance right contractor fees would ultimately get added to the tax role of the property owner um again I I appreciate the frustration we we are caught in a in a rock and a hard place when it comes to different pieces of legislation and and there's a separate tool for a landlord to recoup costs from a tenant and that would be before the land lord tenant board if they chose to go that way again I I I appreciate the frustration we have limited Authority that we're governed either under our bya or under the municipal act uh so and I'm wondering if there's something we can do later on talking about this issue that's what councilor Bey says because it seems unfair it seems like we're penalize the people that pay taxes uh and I want to tell you it was for me a whole month of going back and forth trying to figure out how I could help this uh uh property um landlord and we talk about housing all the time how short we are it is so true I talk to a lot of people they said we're not going to buy an investment to rent out why we're losing money I talk to so many people they are not investing so it's in our best interest City of Hamilton to help the landlords as well of course we want to help the tenants but listen when something is wrong it's wrong and this this case alone put a bad taste to my mouth and I thought no wonder you're going to sell the house the house is for sale now and he's going to have to uh tell the L uh his renters find somewhere else because I'm selling the house so this is a serious issue and I hope we could solve it thank you that's all thank you councelor Pauls next is councelor cret followed by councelor Clark I have to go I'm going to try and say all this very carefully so bear with me two separate things happening here one delegate came forward and they expressed their concerns about a situation that they're going through right now with a tenant I totally hear those concerns she seems frustrated seems like she's tried to solve these problems in different ways you know it's coming up against the LTB all their kinds of jurisdictional processes right I also hear all the time from tenants who are saying the opposite you know that units aren't maintained there's obviously a lot of tension in these situations when we're commodifying housing when all these kinds of things are happening right I get it there's tension in the system in the situation so I want to respect to make space for the delegate who came here to give her thoughts to us and share her thoughts with us I do worry though if we say things like that someone is a deadbeat tenant I do worry about that a little bit because I think that when that person then takes the conversation we have here with them to the next LTB hearing with them to the next public conversation they can say well Council m are saying this person's uh you know that this person is this or this person is something else and ascribing that to the council as a whole or the planning committee as a whole so I'm just concerned point of order chair if if councelor cret would like to point me to his politically correct dictionary to let me know what words are appropriate or not I very much appreciate that yeah I'm not going to Define why I think that's a problem I'm just raising it saying I think it's a problem to see that kind of language to describe people um that's okay I think I can have that opinion I didn't want to interrupt the delegate delegation too much because I felt like that person was trying to make a point and thought I wait till this point to say it I do also think we need to make space for our own comments and questions after we have delegations if there are direct questions for delegates to be asking them that are genuine about their experiences great that's why delegates are here to talk to us and we engage with them in good faith and say hey how are you how are you feeling about this or can you give me some more information about something and that's why they're here and if we have commentary to make this is the time to make that commentary once they're not sitting in front of us so just want to offer that up thanks thank you Council clerk so I'm sitting here listening to all of this conversation and I'm left with a few questions isn't it Ontario legislation that defines the relationship that would exist between the landlord and attendant and addresses any issues that arise from that relationship the chair to the counselor yes and isn't it the landlords or the property managers who rent out a unit an apartment and they have that tenant sign a lease the chair to the counselor yes and isn't the lease the item that would address any specific issues or instruments that for example if the tenant is not let me rephrase the question if I may doesn't the the lease Define the roles and responsibilities for the tenant and the landlord through the chair to the counselor yes then the issue is really with the landlord the tenant is not keep keeping the property clean is hoarding than the landlord has to under the legislation they were the ones that need to deal with it that's the way it is and I appreciate sincerely the the grief that the the the resident has gone through and they're not the only one this has happened across the city but we should not be spending a great deal of time talking about things that we have no control over we we we can't change it you can Advocate but it's up to the province to decide the rules and they've decided the rules and we have to live with them the landlords have to live with them as do the tenants so I just listening to all the conversations just be careful how far we go infiltrating ourselves injecting ourselves into preventional law thank you through the chairman to the counselor Steve robish acting general manager the third there's a third party that's sort of involved in this negotiate or these situations as well as the adjacent Property Owners so when the mle staff are you know investigating they're they're not only looking at you know the issues raised by the tenant or the landlord but we also have adjacent Property Owners or tenants or residents of the neighborhood who often express concerns so as Mily staff seek to achieve compliance first through voluntary compliance and if that's not successful that's when we have to move to to issuing orders to comply to rectify the situation is indicated to hire contractors to do the work but it's you know our first goal is always to seek compliance and if that cannot be achieved through voluntary compliance then that's where we have those mechanisms under the Property Standards by lot to respond to these issues but in looking at it the inspectors and you know staff can correct me if I'm wrong they do take into consideration the how is this impacting adjacent residents as well and what does it mean for the overall community so is it going to be causing a nuisance impact on other property owners because we often do hear complaints from adjacent Property Owners saying the debris or the you know is causing concerns there may be rats or Wildlife or other issues as well as the visual impact from it so that's the lens that the officers are taking when they're investigating and trying to avoid laying charges if they can get that voluntary compliance um but you are right counselor this is really a a commercial contract between two parties a tenant and a landlord and our role really is as it relates to the Property Standards in terms of the physical condition of the property um but that is the only time that we would be intervening into that situation uh thank you very much thank you for the clarification Council Clerk and I appreciate GM Ro Show's comments because he is absolutely correct I guess the challenge that we experience and we know this well in my ward we have what we call absentee landlords so these are individuals who have purchased the pro property commodified as my colleague to the left indicated earlier but they're not living in this community they don't drive by that property they rarely see that property it's just an Avenue to make money and so when they're not present and we're posting notices on the door and sending Letters by by um mail and and certified mail they're responsible and if they don't clean it up if they don't cut the grass which has happened in my area grass that's 10 in long we hire someone and that goes onto the tax bill we do what we're supposed to do as a municipality it's unfortunate that we have some tenants some landlords that choose to act in the manner that they do but all we can do is protect the Property Standards in the community and that's what our staff do very well and I've seen them in action they're incredibly patient they deescalate they do their very best to make everyone go away happy sometimes not everyone is happy thank you thank you Council Clark and that is the end of the speakers list um appreciate this the discussion I think it was was pretty clear on the delineation between provincial and Municipal responsibilities but a reminder to members if there's something you want to pursue with staff offline on this matter you can do that okay we are now moving on to 7.2 Mike Cowan respecting the mecp application for 354 Nash Road North item 11.1 this is an inperson delegation so for real this time Mike please come on down okay good morning Mike once we get your microphone on you have five minutes you hear a ding at four minutes for a one minute reminder go ahead uh thank you very much good morning thank you Council and chair for your time and opportunity uh my name is Mike Cowen I am the applicant and representative for resource disposal Incorporated I'd like to address a few concerns um uh as part of our application for the uh the mCP uh application for our uh proposed property are 354 Nash Road north um as you all know we are looking to put in a soil uh recycling facility there for hydroa uh currently there are not many of those in the uh in the in the surrounding area and it's something that uh the province is now mandating to keep liquid soil out of um landfill and proposed reuse so the uh um some of the points I have here are um the site will receive only clean soils we'll be doing a quick uh testing at the gate to make sure that the soils coming in are of the table one capacity and if they are um found to be untrue then we will then refuse that load and then direct it to the more appropriate receiving site um our site is located uh currently in an M5 zoning which falls in compliance with the city's ordinance and it's in a light industrial area and it is uh nearly far enough away uh we do have a minor zoning uh application for variant in we are about 30 m shy of the 300 M requirement uh to the closest uh residential um I believe there's a commercial or not a commercial rather but an Institutional I believe there a church uh that's uh very close by but um I guess two are Advantage there is a large large arterial Road in between us and uh both of these these sites Barton Road East so I think and and from what we feel um we are uh you know nestled nicely inside the uh industrial area so the noise and any dust or anything like that would be mitigated as well as like we're not overly close to U these these other sites so we shouldn't pose any issues as far as that's concerned uh I've just read through the committee's recommendations for um approval regarding our appli a and I agree with the terms and many of them are already uh in our mecp draft um and those that are not mentioned obviously we'll we'll we'll consider those and and and make right by that um I do have a couple of questions just some of the points I don't know if this is the forum for that but just wanted to just make mention um point a uh proposed was the applicant was to receive the minor variance approval that's obviously in play so I'm hoping that that that that's happening um for consideration and then the applicant is to receive approval um of a site plan control or waiver I just would like some clarification on that that's a possibility and um the final version of the plan of operations is to be signed by a professional engineer that should not be a problem we've been speaking with our uh engineering firm that's been helping us through the process and and they will absolutely do what they can to make that happen uh and then there is a point at the uh City's looking for a discharge permit for uh any of the water that we would be processing um that I would just like to say we don't have any intent to discharge all of the uh water that we would be taking in would be uh reused uh for the operation of the plant or given back to the trucks leaving the site uh and also used for dust control and suppression um we also operate another facility that has a discharge permit so if there's the necess like necessity to discharge we could then haul it with our our trucks to our other facility and then discharge through that means just wanted to make that uh Point known uh and then just lastly a couple of closing notes uh our ECA like I mentioned before is in the draft um stage I understand that it's just contingent on uh the outcome of of today's findings with with the uh planning Council and um the facility will be set up with all of the necessary regulations through the Ontario uh legislation the exf soils act as well as what the uh the municipality or municipality and the uh the province are mandating uh our landlord that we are leasing our section of property from is fully aware of our intentions and is on board with our operations and we maintain a close relationship he is on site uh new nearly every day so that is it's uh it's nice to have him around so I mean there's there's no um back channeling or anything of that nature he's he's fully aware of of our operations um and there's just another Point uh that I believe was raised about just some tracking and things so we do uh employ the use of a a soil tracking app called soil flow so we can monitor all of the incoming everything that's on site and any outgoing and anything that's trucked off site for reuse is is tracked it's tested uh as part of our mecp application I believe my time is pretty well up so okay yeah thank you very much um so we do have a couple of speakers but just a quick overview for process for you so we'll have some committee members ask you some questions you can answer those we have a report on this later in the agenda and at that point it'll be an opportunity for committee members to ask potentially some of the questions that you had raised sure but also you'd have an opportunity to speak with staff offline maybe on some of the more technical issues fantas so with that said uh councel Francis followed by councel Wayne yeah thanks Shar some of the points that I was also going to make but I just had a a couple questions for you and thank you coming thank you for coming here today and uh delegating before us um are you aware that there's a patio um at Clifford Brewing about 50 m from this site uh yes I am yes yes I am okay thanks and are you confident that with what you're doing here you're going to be able to mitigate U some of those concerns I mean obviously this is a this is a brewery we're seeing a lot of these pop up uh in Hamilton in industrial areas uh Collective Arts is another example um you know our City's changing I mean you're starting to see some of these uh Industries evolve uh people starting to take advantage of of different areas of the city that they haven't in the past um so there are some competing um issues that we have to work out um um are you confident that you're going to be able to uh mitigate these uh impacts to that local business there's not you know I I I'd hate to be in a situation here where um you know the committee of adjustment um they approve your minor variance application and then the uh Ministry approves your your application as well and then you come back and we've got all sorts of issues that are are negatively impacting uh uh that local business there that has a lot of foot traffic and and uh would be negatively impacted by owners and and whatnot so I just want to make sure that I've got on record here today that you're confident that you're going to be able to mitigate those uh environmental concerns through you chair thank uh yeah uh through the chair to the counselor I believe that we will take all necessary steps to uh mitigate any disruption to the local businesses uh when we did put out our application for the ministry uh we did send out many mailers to all of the local businesses explaining what we were doing and we had to our knowledge no negative feedback from any of the surrounding businesses or tenants um the the truck traffic that that will be coming in and out of our facility will be held on our site we don't plan to Stage any trucks on the road we shouldn't block any of the uh nearby businesses uh namely the the brewery should be unaffected as far as I can understand um we are looking at um you know mitigating as much of the noise as we can um keeping the dust suppression down um our op operating hours um at this point like we are looking at perhaps operating on weekends but at this point we're not um we're not looking to to operate outside of like a standard Monday to Friday operation so that should again hopefully appease the the neighboring business uh and not interrupt their business flow uh and then lastly we're looking to um take the next steps to apply for uh the possibility of a building permit to house um like an insulated quanset Hut over the operation just to um more so to keep like weather out and uh noise and dust and what have you in so that should be something that should should help I appreciate the explanation um would you categorize what you're doing as odorless through your chair uh through the chair to the counselor I believe um like I said earlier everything that we're going to takeen is um is going to be clean it's not going to have um an odor I work at the plant daily and there's no particular odor nothing that's nefarious we're actually um we smell the uh there's a I I guess some sort of manufacturing for food Goods so we smell that more than we smell anything else um there's really no smell that I can comment on that's all I've got thank you so much I appreciate it thank you thank you counselor councelor Wang you have some questions I'm thankful to the ward counselor for asking the question about odor just because I am not aware of what a liquid soil facility does um so I wonder too um if I look at the pictures that were submitted in the in in the application um it says that there's a sludge tank and a flock tank are those open or that part of that enclosure that you were talking about uh currently they're open uh sorry through the chair to the counselor um they are currently open at this point they're both open top tanks um sludge is really the only term that we can come up with what it is it's the ultra fines in the uh the processing so it's essentially just clay fines that have a polymer and water dose in it just to settle it so that what happens is is that's how we we reclaim the fresh water by adding the polymer and then what's left over is what we call the sludge but essentially it's again just a wet a wet soil non- nefarious again testing uh will be happening on this particular item and when it's removed off site it'll be going to the the appropriate reuse or receiving site okay second question then through your chair is um what will be your customer service process um I know that our own wastewater treatment plant um we have a like a call like a some sort of a service call so if there's any residents or businesses that detect an OD or anything they can call and then our wastewater treatment plant also has perfumers to help with some of the smell but I do recall that you did say that it's mostly an odorless um type operation I'm just thinking just in case of hot weather and those tanks are open and with Clifford being right next door what does I'm just thinking about it from a customer service perspective how how will you mitigate some of that uh through the chair uh to the uh we have the opportunity to um have an open Channel with the public all of our signage has a 24-hour uh phone number on it um we again will do our do diligence to make sure that we mitigate the dust um in the trucking yard um any any any I guess mud or residue that would be tracked out of our yard into the adjoining Trucking yard we would we make sure we sweep that up um and then and as far as like the odor is concerned I think our our biggest um like combat to that should there be any would be to go ahead and and and make good on uh covering the the the processing thank you those are all my questions thank you and councelor Clark is now on the speaker list go ahead uh thank you chair can I ask the delegate to explain you're applying for a waste disposal site you keep talking about soil you're treating soil you're really treating waste non-hazardous waste that's coming into the plant to remove contaminants so what's that process how do you remove the contaminants from the soil uh through the chair to the council actually um just to maybe take you through the process please the we we're not I guess first of all we're not receiving any contaminated soil so we're I guess by and large we wouldn't be removing anything contaminants because we wouldn't receive it the soil that we will receive is clean so we have a test that when the truck enters the gate we take a small sample and we have we look for oils petroleums with um some of our tools and we also have a sniffing uh agent that will pick up parts per million um in any like bcc's or any um like fuel related to make sure that the soil doesn't have any contaminants in it should that be found um we would refuse the load and send it to an alternate facility uh for proper disposal of that type of material um if it's found to be clean which is what we're um the intent would be is that we would then have the truck dump the load which is the liquefied soil into a receiving Hopper that Hopper then is loaded by excavator into our machine the large course aggregate is removed and stockpiled on the uh in in a bin the sand is then removed into a bin at the same time and the ultra fines are then pumped through a settling tank with our polymer injection to settle out the ultrafines to create that last commodity the um the sludge if you will and then the water is reclaimed back into the operation to just keep washing things dust control suppression and then fed back to outgoing trucks forth um used to to carry on digging that way maybe we mitigate a little bit of the potable water supply that's taken from bulk water filling stations to fill these trucks up I hope and so the sludge that you create as a part of the process what happens to it uh that is then tested before it's leaving the site it's then classified as um a table one or table two type material and then it goes to the appropriate site by way of uh transport uh I would hope not landfill uh if the testing that would be the very last resort it should go to a reused site it's more like a fill site that's where we're aiming for is that um properties that are looking to um take in clean fill to build something up or to level out certain ground that's that's our main and your lagon that you are operating how do you treat that water how do you clean up that water that water is used um back in the plant so it goes back into a storage container so we have an 880,000 lit closed um it's it's just called a like a water storage or or Frack tank as in the industry terms and that's um that water there is just you pumped back into the operation for washing so it's almost like recycled okay last question question I have lived with a landfill with horrendous orders that we're not supposed to be there it's a nonhazardous ICI landfill the odas have been there for just about 7 months of a 12- month cycle they were promised there would be no odors so can you explain to me how you're going to mitigate odors on your side site because some of the materials that will be coming in will likely have voters uh through the through the Char of council um I mean I think our biggest defense on mitigating any of the odors is obviously to close in the plant um and and make sure that we're doing our due diligence when we're testing to make sure that you know we don't allow any any loads that have odors of you know the petroleums F1 through f4 on the uh on the hydrocarbon scale to make sure that we're not uh omitting anything we use uh our water processed water as part of our application we are able to use that to wet down our stock piles to keep them a little bit damp to um not allow any dust to to blow around freely uh we also would use it on our um our surfaces like the the parking and driving surfaces to keep that down so by virtue of covering the receiving site and then um you know making sure that we keep the dust down on our um exposed stock files I would hope that that would mitigate any you know un unneeded uh orders that would that they may percolate thank you chair the those are all my questions okay thank you Council Clark Mike we also have one more member who'd like to ask you a question councelor Nan thank you through you chair thank you for coming to delegate and answering all of our really uh inquiring questions about your operations um as the War 3 counselor and and having many industrial neighbors who come in to do operations that um aren't supposed to have any dust in their operations and then end up having dust turns into a difficult scenario for compliance and also standards uh after the fact so please experience these questions not as an interrogation but just our due diligence on behalf of uh the area where you'll be opening up your operations thank you so from that perspective did I hear correctly that you're looking to close your entire operations that anything that would be involving uh the soil uh water extraction process and any soil that goes Airborne as a result would be contained internally inside of a building or will there be any operations that occur outside uh exactly you are absolutely correct sorry through the chair to the counselor you are actually correct that's what we're looking to do is is right from the receiving um bin right through the uh the processing operation would be um all enclosed the only um I guess the the the postprocessed material the course aggregate in the sand and uh anything being trucked off site would be and stockpiled in the uh the the bunker bins would be the only thing that would be I guess open to the element and through chair bunker bins can you just explain are those covered uh no they are not covered at this at this time uh it's something that we can consider um it's just right now it's they're they're just an open top um like concrete uh bunker bin we we just we just push the uh the piles and stock pile it against um and then to to mitigate anything further going airborne we just like to keep them a little bit damp got it and through you chair in terms of the Trucking in and out do your trucks currently in your operations are those are those Vehicles covered do do your truck bins are they often covered as well uh through the through the share to the counselor the outgoing trucks they are your standard dump truck with a rolloff tarp rollof tarp so there's the spill over effect on the sides uh well we we don't load past the sideboard got um and then once the truck is loaded the uh the tarp is deployed before it leaves the yard and then and then anything coming in um in its um I guess raw form is it's already contained inside the vacuum truck got it and then final question would be um you had mentioned that you didn't have any um you tried to do some Outreach get some engagement from Community or public and you didn't receive any did you have a chance to go do to door to your potential neighbors to inquire with them about their operations and do some good neighborly businesso business conversations thank you uh through the chair of counselor we we did not do any door Todo uh we just we just followed the um the compliance set forth in the guidelines for the application through the province as well as uh anything through the the city's ordinance for the variance application thank you those my questions okay that exhaust the speakers list thank you very much Mike for your delegation and for answering all those questions I think that'll be very helpful oh oh counselor B hold that thought go ahead sorry chair um tried to get on earlier but uh technology failing me and and forgive me for I hope I'm not asking a redundant questions of the the delegate um my understanding I think and watching the presentation Mike is that uh you're primarily taking hydrovac trucks uh as an intake that's that's the source of where this is coming from is that correct through the chair to the counselor that is absolutely correct yes it will be liquid okay so the hydrovac truck works by using highpressure water to excavate what is typically virgin soil in most cases um you know using hydrovac excavation to um I've seen it done where they are installing signs at the side of the road or they may be Excavating underneath an area as a as a form of boring um so that minimize a lot of the um disruption uh so it basically ends up being a slurry uh if I understand correctly of of water sand gravel uh but it's typically uh virgin soil that we're talking about in these sites and I think that I heard that basically that's what you're looking to take in would be like a liquefied virgin soil from these um hydrovac excavation sites is is what your intake is is that correct Mike uh through the chair to the counselor yeah absolutely that is exactly the process that we would be undertaking we are looking to take in that particular liquid slurry uh composed of water gravel uh you know Clay fines is like the silts and Sands and things of that nature uh to keep it out of landfill to unnecessarily fill it and then obviously um process that for reuse and other applications Road building pipe beding um what have you thank you Mike and through the chair um sometimes you do see Hydro trucks hydrovac trucks that are cleaning catch basins on the side of the road and and used for other purposes other than excavation but that's not the product that you're going to be receiving um you know um at this time correct uh through the chair to the councel that is correct yes that is one of the uh preliminary questions we do ask the driver out right if there's anything on the truck um that would be considered a no-go for us and that uh sanitary sewer waste uh catch Bas and drilling mud anything nefarious is um is is part of our actual questionnaire and uh if if it's found to be uh yes then we would we would uh direct the truck elsewhere and then once uh sorry through the chair uh final question then Mike just again understanding the process once you receive that liquid slurry of Virgin soil uh you go through a um looks like a sifting process you remove the large gravel particulate your silt and sand comes out in a different area and then you're left with water and the Virgin soil mix which is then I think dewatered and then you ship that out in traditional dump trucks so they come in in a sealed truck but they're going out in a traditional dump truck uh through the chair of the councel you bang on that's right okay uh I understand the process I don't have any further questions thank you chair for the ability to ask a question thank you Council Bey looks like you're the one Committee Member who did some deep research before the meeting today impressed with your knowledge okay I'll do a quick look around to see if there any other speakers uh seeing none thank you very much Mike um the item is later on the agenda you're welcome to wait in the gallery or if more convenient the meeting is being streamed online should that work for you if you want to follow thank you very much to uh the councilors and to the chair appreciate it okay thank you I need a move in second to receive the delegation Council Francis coun Wayne we'll go to the vote the vote is up and that's carried unanimously moving along to 7.3 delegations respecting self storage facilities review it's item 11.2 on today's agenda we have two delegations first is Peter de Julio Metropolitan Consulting and that's an in-person delegation welcome Peter he's just making his way down to the podium as a reminder like with the other delegates you have five minutes and you'd hear a a ding at the one minute remaining Mark welcome the floor is yours morning Mr chairman members of committee staff and the public my name is Peter deum I'm a registered professional planner with Metropolitan Consulting I'm here representing water down Self Storage uh and the S family uh Andrew will be speaking after me um and despite its name while water down Self Storage they are actually located a few kilometers North in the Selman area of flambro Center they've been in business for 28 years back in the day when I was a planner with the town of flambro they were established and I had the fortune of meeting Mark through a mutual friend we're here to just um I guess raise a a bit of a concern or issue that maybe H perhaps hasn't been looked at we understand this the start of the process it's going to be going to the public look for review but it's the issue of outdoor storage uh water out self storage does have a facility which uh does have indoor storage but it has a large component is the Outdoor Storage it's particularly of RVs boats trailers what have you and so we just want to perhaps bring that issue to the Forefront when this goes out to the public uh for review and discussion I know this report was focused on these new multi-story story facilities that we're seeing pop up throughout the municipalities in Ontario and uh so it's focused on that component but when I looked at the definition of proposed definition of a self- storage facility specifically excluded outdoor storage and while I know my client's property is in a rural area eventually whether that definition gets uh applied to all self storage facilities even though it is a rural site specific Zone Zone uh there's a just an initial concern for that as well so that is all I want to address right now uh Andrew will address I think more so the family business and uh I'm happy to answer any questions at this time thank you very much Peter do a quick pause to see if there any questions oh councel mcmein hi Peter good to see you again you too councelor you did some great work in flamb bro and I'm sure that's H continuing um so just to to be clear uh you're pleased that uh given the changing uh demands and the need for creativity and all that uh which will be uh facilitated through the study that's good um your worry is you don't want to be excluded from that arbitrarily to get go is that fair uh through the chair yes I think the study recognizes the emerging trend for the multi-story facilities but it doesn't really I think hasn't addressed or looked at outdoor storage and that like I said is is is perhaps a key component of some of the self storage facilities um that have both these indoor units and some outdoor uh like Safari Self Storage up Highway 6 has a combination of yeah indoor units and a lot of outdoor storage for RVs and boats and what have you and my client's business is very exact same it's a smaller site and he was hoping to expand on a bigger site he had purchased back in 2006 and we've had some formal consultation with the city that we're trying to work through and there's a rural sensitivity there to the chair yes but I mean my respective from a planner and it was addressed on the report I think on page eight when you look at an outdoor storage you don't need and it's not I don't think is valuable or it's to to to use up an urban area Urban Land for outdoor storage purposes for you know RVs and what have you so that's you know their business they're looking at that is to try and you know provide opportunities for this outdoor storage without having using a valuable Urban land where the economics May don't make as much sense to uh store outdoor Vehicles you know Vehicles outdoor you know we're we're all faced with a crunch to try and build up in the urban area and and and this this certain study addresses that issue of going vertical rather than expanding out and using masses amounts of lands for storage and from your experience uh with the soov family um which you referenced in the start of your presentation things have gone well with the existing business theater chair yes it has but they have reached I guess capacity at their current site and they're looking to expand and unfortunately when they see the rural landscape and what's H happening out there uh they're losing business because of uh other situations out in the rural area very good those are all my questions chair okay thank you counselor mcmean councelor cret has some questions go ahead thanks very much and you just spoke to trying to build up a little bit and some of those concerns my questions for you are about that that and about parking and storm water runoff and so I know when there's been some work done looking across the city for terms of surface parking right sometimes these storage facilities can have quite a bit of it and so what are your thoughts on regardless of where this is buil right um the staff's report with respect to trying to mitigate a bit of that by creating a little bit more density and possibly containing some of the storm water runoff by having less surface parking because of course you could do it underground or you could do it stacked right you could store RVs all kinds of different ways right and boats and things like that and still use the footprint to build up to ensure that you know you're maximizing this the space and the density through the chair in in terms of yes I mean I see the the rural area potentially is a better area for accommodating RVs and trailers where you just have a gravel surface and natural infiltration these vertical facilities um unless you build the stories the floors 15 ft High you can't accommodate the boats and the the trailers and what have you so yes it's a good idea to build vertical and and and reduce the footprint certainly on a lot and then yeah you wouldn't have to pave as much for parking because yeah these facilities you I I've seen them you the cars pull in and I don't know some facilities actually might have an elevator to take your car up you know so um I think it's a good way to go Absol absolutely I agree with what they're looking at in the current trends I mean I'm not a market person but if that's I mean I my daughter went to school in Ottawa I saw the diamond facilities in Ottawa every time I drove in to see her they got one going up in Burlington there it's it's opening soon forever but uh I think it's it's it's the way to happen you know you're not going to have this one story spread out anymore but uh cuz the the value of land is is is you know it's too valuable to to take up that much much space yeah and you're engineering you're you're you're grading and drainage I mean that all gets hopefully taken care of uh in a much more confined way and appropriate way I mean I'm not the engineer but I can see that as a benefit thanks very much and for explaining about the permeability right and talking about gravel versus pavement and those kinds of different options that are avable in rural areas appreciate it okay thank you councelor we don't have any further speakers thank you very much Peter and next is Andrew S Andrew is just making his way down welcome Andrew similarly you have five minutes you hear and ding when you have one minute remaining great go ahead great thank you um my name's Andrew S uh been involved with water down Self Storage since I was a kid um really took the the lead uh sibling role um while my dad was working full-time while we had the business um and happy to answer uh questions related to you know more into the operations uh similar to the questions that um that Peter answered um I'll be a little bit repetitive uh but I do I want to say first off that appreciate the uh the report and that this is getting a look um I I do agree that um uh that the outdoor storage is something that is worth looking at um but I'll I'll speak more on that in a in a moment um one thing that the uh report noted was that Hamilton has the fourth most uh storage space uh in the province and the three other cities that were listed were Toronto msaga and Ottawa um all of those cities are large populations as well uh so I'd be curious to know what is uh the self storage space on a per capita basis and what's the Target that we want as a city I think both of those need to be defined um uh in order to better assess uh what zones might be appropriate given the official plan and the and the acreage for those zones uh so first I request that those be considered uh the next piece is uh the study not considering uh the outside uh storage of RVs and uh boats uh which accompany many self storage facilities um in other municipalities that I know of there have been uh fires or other incidents uh which cause excessive damage and impact to the facilities uh because of not having uh or following applicabl zoning bylaws that would ensure that the location had the services or the accessibility um therefore my second request is that um outdoor storage is considered not only for the the you know the economics and making sure that we have enough um uh allocated land but also to make sure that that's used in a way that's safe to uh those people that are using it um the um the next piece I wanted to talk about is uh from a zoning perspective there was uh some discussion in the report about how they're similars uh similar to a warehouse um and I I think a storage facility in terms of traffic intensity and infrastructure requirements uh does not usually re uh require the same um uh infrastructure uh for example like loading doors for a 53ft trailer wouldn't be necessary for most self storage facilities where they would be for a warehouse uh so I I request that that be um further considered uh in in uh this report by actually engaging the facilities themselves and directly observing the uh the facility operations watching a you know U-Haul truck move in and move out is very different uh than an Amazon warehouse uh finally um in the case of the outside storage if it were to be included considering it more uh like a like a parking lot to start um given that it's it typically operate something similar um but I'm sure that that would be further understood through um through the direct observation um yeah that concludes what I wanted to say thank you okay thank you Andrew I'll pause to see if there are any questions from committee members seeing none thank you for your delegation great thank you okay so now I need a move in second to receive these delegations please councel mcme Council Alex Wilson we'll go to the vote the vote is now up that carries unanimously moving along we're on to item nine on the agenda consent items uh 9.1 is appeal by we are fols LLP on behalf of 15208 66 Ontario limited luani holes of draft plan of subdivision application 25t d223 four to the Ontario land Tribunal for lack of decision for lands located at 157 upper Centennial Parkway Stony Creek it is report number ped 24147 and it is in Ward 9 may I have a mover and seconder to put the report on the floor and then we'll have some discussion councelor Dano councelor Wang is there any discussion councelor Clark thank you chair just some quick questions to staff on on on the file so the the original the first appeal that occurred on this property was over the official plan and the resoning is that correct so the chair yes that is correct and so while the Ontario Lands Tribunal and all of the parties are dealing with that appeal we find ourselves with another appeal ostensibly for a non-decision on the site plan and I guess what I'm struggling with is how would we even approve a site plan if the official plan and the rezoning has not been resolved at the Olt they're not exactly separate items they're intricately linked can I get a comment on that through the chair and my apologies for not uh introducing myself uh Tim Broman acting manager for development planning the team so the process here so yes we did receive the official plan and Zing bylaw Amendment applications previously which are under appeal to the interior line tribunal as part of the appeal to the more recently submitted draft plan of subdivision and site in applications the appeal the um proponent does uh intend and is requesting to through the inter tribunal to um consolidate the subdivision and site plan applications with the current appeals um as per the ter L tribunal uh rules um so they would all be re reviewed together um and at to that point through the through the hearing and the decision of the O they would review all the applications together um and if it proceeds they would make the decision on um applying official plans on amendments to establish the land use as well as um these implementation tools that we can consider as the the subdivision and the site plan through the chair to the ward counselor but to the essence of your question as noted in on page two of the staff report City staff although we have delegated authority to make decisions on site plans uh we would not be in a position to approve a site plan where the principle of the land use has not been established by Council or the Olt through the zoning and official plan process so essentially we could not approve the site plan although the site plan the zoning the OPA approvals are all interrelated as they relate to the engineering matters in terms of grading drainage site servicing the city has no mechanism to approve a site with a a site plan for a use that is not permitted in the planning instruments as approved by counc thank you very much so in very layman terms you can't go from a to c without going through b through M through the chair that is correct um can I get confirmation that we still have not resolved all the drainage and water runoff issues from engineering this is a property that previous to this development flooded quite frequently uh we have had significant flooding on upper Centennial and um Mud Street uh which is just North of this property and the water goes to two different directions so developing a plan for drainage and runoff is really important given that one land owner is actually at the lower grade of all the properties there so we do we have any of that engineer hear in confirmed and done yet and I appreciate that legal's here just in case I'm going in area I shouldn't be going into but uh yeah so through the chair so um the engineering and the grading issues that you mentioned they're tied up obviously in the um the planning act appeals but there's also Act of litigation that the city's involved in um on this property as well um that uh deals with some historical grading issues on the property so we we can't comment on those um in public session um but we can go in camera on some those questions I I understand that and just sorry Patrick if you want for the public introduce yourself Patrick McDonald Legal Services thank you we know who you are but the public doesn't know who you are um can I ask then to the solicitor if the proponent is permitted to continue grading the property given that we now have two appeals underway at the Olt granted that they may be Consolidated and open litigation so I'm hearing from the neighbors concerns that the grading is still happening is that permissible uh so first of all um just confirming a stat they're cognizant of um the questions around ongoing grading on the site and we're aware of that um in terms of permissions that would be subject to the site alteration bylaw and the interactions of the appeals so um if there are unauthorized grading activities taking place on the site outside of those planning act approvals that would be a matter for uh enforcement um but I think certainly we're cognizant of the historical issues there um and the fact that those are going to have to be dealt with uh through the planning act appeals thank you that's very helpful Mr chairman I I am very grateful for staff for for creating this information report um the public is intrigued by this ongoing development and I think it's important that everyone understand how complicated this particular development application has become uh with two appeals to the Olt on the very same property as well as open litigation um it's very challenging I want the residents to know that we're doing as much as we can to keep the roads clear of mud and and to minimize any grading um but we are involved in three legal matters on the same property and that is making it very challenging for us is that fair to say Mr roell we're good thank you yes that's correct thank you those are all my questions in public I'll talk to Legal sorry those are all my questions in public I'll speak with legal and and Mr Robos show separately um to confirm a few other situations thank you very much okay thank you councelor Clark I'll do a quick scan for other speakers not seeing any this is just an information report we already have a mover and seconder so we'll go to the vote to receive the information report the vote is up that carries unanimously moving along on the agenda we are at 10 which is public hearings the public has been advised of how to pre-register to be a delegate at the public meetings on today's agenda if a person public body or registered owner of land would otherwise have an ability to appeal the decision of council City of Hamilton to the Ontario land tribunal but the person or public body does not make the or submissions at a public meeting or make written submissions to the city of Hamilton before the bylaw is passed the person or public body is not entitled to to appeal the decision if a person public body or registered owner of land does not make oral submissions at a public meeting or make written submissions to the city of Hamilton before the bylaw is passed the person or public body may not be added as a party to the hearing of an appeal before the Ontario land tribunal unless in the opinion of the tribunal there are reasonable grounds to do so so the item we have today is 10.1 applications for a zoning bylaw Amendment and draft plan of condominum vacant land for lands located at 285 and 293 fidler Green Road in Ancaster it's report ped 24154 inward 12 does committee wish to see the staff presentation I'm not seeing any so uh we'll just have a motion to wave the STA presentation councilor cret thought you'd be first councelor Wang we'll go to that vote the vote is up oh that carries unanimously thank you so okay we do have Nancy Friday I believe with GSP group and attendance today in person and Nancy's making her way down to the podium and we'll just take a moment to get a presentation on the screen good morning Mr chair members of committee uh name is Nancy Friday a senior planner with GSP group and I'm here today uh along with the owner one of the owners of the property Mr Sid Pano is here as well in the in the audience so this this first slide uh Mr chair members of the committee is just showing you the introduction and and Advising you that herbeck's engineering uh adeso design and GSP group are the three Consultants on on this project can I Advance it this one um the I think it's important to have a bit of a presentation on this application um even though it is being recommended for approval because it has a bit of a long history um it actually the if you notice the Sony bylaw Amendment file number is uh from uh 2016 and so the the original discussion about these two properties um took place in 2011 through 2014 and the original proposal was for 14 and then 12 uh tow houses on this site and it's it's a combination of two former single detached Lots um being 285 and 293 Fiddler green road so it it proceeded um at the time through Ancaster Community Council and at that time the counselors advised the owner they would prefer to see single detached dwellings on this property rather than the 12 tow houses so so fast forward or not so fast forward to 2019 and uh the reason for the delay in developing this property is related to storm water management primarily and this is because there's no storm water uh storm sorry storm sewer on Fiddler's Green Road and the lay of the land is such that it slopes away from fider Green from the West to the East and the property has a history of ponding and water minimal flooding on the property and overflow onto adjacent properties and part of the problem was the ditch along Fiddler's Green was a bit impeded or it need to be um improved or repaired and restored so that the the flow continued to the north along Fiddler's Green Road so that happened so there's a few storm water management uh existing issues that were contributing to ponding water on the site then to redevelop it there has to be a way to uh capture the water and release it back to the ditch so in 2019 uh the owners came up with this plan that you see on the scen screen it's for seven detached dwellings and they proposed a small infiltration Pond and that pond would capture the water uh direct it onto the road uh infiltrate into the ground and there'd be swells on the property to direct the water to that small pond the actual emergency over land flow Etc or if in cases if the pond would fail for some reason or if there was uh extreme 100-year uh rain events there would still be this emergency Overland flow to the east to the two Neighbors at the back excuse me you can see on the screen that the addresses are uh 284 and 292 mapleine and these two properties do also have a history with the city in terms of flooding and concerns about uh drainage on the property so we were advised through the circulation of this revised proposal of seven dwellings that that's not going to work so um it's not so much the pond was an issue it's that there would still be water flowing to thej adjacent properties in an extreme storm event so the current proposal uh was sort worked out in 2022 uh we met with development engineering staff a few times uh during this period and uh it's actually a recommendation of City staff that okay you may have to build up the site you may have to fill the back of the site and have it all drained towards Fiddler's Green Road so that was taken back um the engineers herck looked at that and thought okay we can make that work but we'll have to put a retaining wall on the site uh to contain the fill so this was the solution in terms of the storm water management solution that was arrived at in 2022 so again we did a resubmission totally uh technical reports were all updated and that was uh submitted and it was reduced now to six single attached dwellings uh you can see in green there the retaining wall the location of the retaining wall uh there is private garbage pickup a small visitor parking area a a snow storage area Etc um so this was this was uh found to be a solution for redevelopment of the property so the retaining wall I thought there would maybe some questions regarding what does this retaining wall look like um there is a a sort of a stock picture on the screen right now showing what they call a permacon retaining wall with a fence on top as a safety guard so generally I been told that uh walls over 6 M or 2 feet uh require require a safety guard and that guard must be 1 M or 3 and 1/2 ft in height and all of this is regulated by the onaral building code so the the engineers that determined that the height of the retaining wall will vary quite a bit across the site um near the street line particularly at the South it's that's its uh lowest height at the 0.24 meters and then at the rear as the property drops um more fill involved there and a higher retaining wall and the safety guard as well so this has all been worked out through the geotechnical study and the grading plan and uh this was been reviewed by development engineering and again this they were satisfied with the location of the retaining wall uh so once we got the storm water and retaining wall issue sorted out um we went to the tree issue and there was some there's some mature trees on the site absolutely um adesso designed did a a general vegetation inventory where they looked at all the trees over 10 cmers in diameter and they did that twice they had to update it given the time between 20 2019 and 2024 um and it was found that 15 of those boundaries tree trees can be saved uh they actually inventoried about 42 trees um and 15 can be saved along the bound um the owner does have letters from the two owners on opposite sides to the North and South about the trees they are aware of what's going on and have agreed to um the proposal put forth in terms of the landscape plan which I'll show you next um there's 14 trees that were inventoried on the neighbor's site and they can be saved as well unfortunately there are eight trees that must be removed two to the North Boundary two on the South Boundary and four in the middle which is basically that property line dividing the two properties where there were some trees and a cedar hedge that had they call them 16 individuals they count as one unit one tree unit they will have to be removed at all removed as well so at the rear of the property where most of those trees are located um quite that's where the most the most fill will be required and unfortunately the trees would not survive in any case so just to clarify all those trees that are coming down are in fair fair to poor condition and we do have one tree uh tree 12 it is named and it's in fair to good condition at the back and I know uh it was staff and councelor Cesar was interested that we might be able to save that one white pine however again it's it's just not in a good location it's in good condition but it's located in an area of quite a bit of fill so just to show the landscape plan um it does show the additional plantings around the perimeter of the site uh Street trees seven Street trees will be planted there will be one tree per lot or the vacant land unit it is called and uh the trees will be saved around the boundary additional planting on the east side of the retaining wall for the neighbors to the east it's often the look of that wall um natural heritage staff were concerned about trees that remain and how how are we ensuring that they will be healthy in the long term um a deso design said that there's there needs to be all tree protection uh fencing definitely but probably some hand excavation and hand tree pruning when roots are exposed to ensure that the trees that are remaining will remain healthy so one of the conditions of draft approval of the draft plan of vacant land condominium is uh approval of a landscape plan so coming to the resoning portion excuse me the property will be resed R1 this relatively new R1 Zone in b5200 um this a private road of course and uh all these Lots do meet the R1 Zone in terms of the lot they're called V excuse me called vacant land units but they have a frontage an area that meet the R1 Zone and all the yards are met as well that are in the R1 zone so there's a 7 and2 meter rear yard uh from the back of the house to the um to the retaining wall actually so they're they're significantly sized Lots there'll be uh enough a lot of open space in the rear and uh there's one modification require for uh one of the vacant land units five which is a corner corner lot and the flank uh is requ to be 3 m and we have 1.2 so in terms of a yard yard modification that is the only one I have highlighted this next uh piece here that say that in the draft zoning bylaw Amendment prepared by staff um they refer to a modification to the front yard landscaping requirement it needs to be 50% and it is for all but two of these Lots so it's 40% 48% for two of them unfortunately the draft zoning bylaw Amendment refers to 8% landscape area rather than specifying front yard landscaped area so I've been asked in my presentation to request committee to modify the draft to be clear that it's the front yard landscaping that the 48% applies to um there's as I say there's been from 2016 to now quite a bit that's happened on this site so uh the the challenges have been addressed we find ourselves here today with her recommendation for approval which we are very pleased with um the surface drainage uh the retaining wall and the tree removal issues have been addressed to best of our ability and staff is is accepting of that and we appreciate the time and assistant staff has given us um I just wanted to note that I know there is a letter on the agenda from a neighbor and I have responded to the points in the letter but I I won't speak to that right now I have given a handout um um but I I just wanted to say one of the things the neighbor said that there will be a water course altered on the site and uh there is no water course on the site I mean it has been a depression area but it it's not a water course conservation Authority uh is not does not regulate the property and they have no concerns with the proposed Redevelopment so I just wanted to clarify that in case uh that came up with a question for any of the committee members thank you for your time welcome any questions thank you Nancy for the very thorough presentation I have a look around and see if there are any questions maybe if we can bring the presentation down and see if there's anyone online no okay I do have one question I'll pass the chair to the second Vice chair councelor Wang um you did reference You' answered the questions to The Correspondents I just wanted to publicly ask about one of them I'll ask the other questions to staff uh one of them in the correspondence was about number three was about uh I'm sorry number four was about a fence along the lot line and the concern from the lighter writers of the letter that installing a fence could have a negative impact on those trees um so you address the fact that they be they be saved and just wonder if you can comment on any steps at this point to ensure that subsequent fence installation wouldn't have any negative impact right um thank you uh Mr chair uh well the the actual it's a little bit of conf Fusion I was I was asking of Staff originally I a little bit of a long answer so originally um you know is there anything in the zoning bylaw that prohibits this retaining wall so to me it was quite significant it's a retaining wall of various Heights and uh and it and it says visual barriers are not permitted with 3 meters of a street line so I was I was told that no this isn't a visual barrier this retaining wall going back to that it's actually a wall to retain soil so we don't require a visual barrier so the actual fact that there will be this retaining wall around the entire perimeter with a fence and then a one meter separation to the property line so I think if if you're asking uh would there if a fence was put up there may be some impact on some of those boundary trees that are being saved because it's not really you know do want to fence the fence and the property it it may be um appropriate or um it may be appropriate not to have a fence around this property in the case if we want to save trees um if it's not required um because it does leave that one meter piece between the retaining wall and a fence right okay so something you've considered and are working on or have some clarification from staff it sounds like yes correct yes okay thank you I'll take the chair back okay uh and Nancy you did confirm you support the staff recommendation yes I do thank you okay so I don't see any further speakers so I move on in secondary to receive the presentation councelor Wang councelor cret thank you Nancy the vote is now [Music] up that carries unanimously I will now ask if there are any members of the public that wish to speak at this public meeting for a second time are there any members of the public that wish to speak at this public meeting then for a third and final time are there any members of the public that wish to speak at this public meeting not seeing any so I I will ask for a mover and seconder for one that the public submissions regarding this matter were received and considered by the committee and two that the public meeting be closed Council cret counselor Pauls thank you we'll indicate that vote electronically it is now up that carries unanimously so we are on to the report and the recommendations there in if I could have a mve in second or to put that on the floor councelor Wang councelor Pauls any questions on the report okay I have a couple so I'll hand the chair over to the council wayang so I referenced a couple minutes ago there was just some questions on behalf of some residents I wanted to ask of Staff chair so the first one was uh point one in that correspondence it was just regarding the retaining wall and the storm water storm water Swale so in that correspondence they were requesting more detailed description of it uh and in it it said um included in all offers they wanted a statement included that in the future that anyone purchasing would be know that they're responsible for maintaining it so if I could have staff address that concern please uh through you uh chair to the counselor uh first I'd like to note uh that the the individual lot owners won't be responsible for maintenance and ownership of the retaining wall that will be uh the condominium corporation's responsibility along with the other common element features of the site including the uh the private roadway the waste collection area um and the visitor parking spaces among other things um I would direct you to appendix d uh which contains the special conditions of the uh draft plan of colom minum approval item number 10 uh B uh which lays out uh the notices that will be required to be included in the condom condominium declaration uh that that condition specifies that the the ongoing maintenance replacement costs uh for these features including the retaining wall uh will be uh part of the the condominium uh and then I will direct uh your question regarding the function of the retaining wall uh to my colleague in development engineering so before we move on but perhaps you can introduce yourself Mark excuse me my name is Mark uh development planner thank you and to the next person Madame chair b k director of development engineering I'm just going to talk about the uh function of the retaining wall so you know as Nancy presented I wanted to go back to 2016 this application was started in 2016 they proposed about 12 uh dwelling units and then uh 2019 they revised the plan with the the seven single detached dwelling and also they were proposing a dry pond at the northeast corner of the property and they are discharging the emergency Overland flow through that 2 uh 84 and 292 Maple Dean drive and I I believe they were experiencing some flooding issues through this so staff was requested to the applicant uh to look at this in detail how we can reduce the impact to the surrounding properties and in October 2022 the applicant resubmitted an application with a retaining wall um and discharging all the flows back to uh the foodless green so that there is no impact to the surrounding land the retaining wall is actually going to be containing all the stor Water Management within the site uh so that they can uh direct the flow from east to the West this is why actually proposing the retaining wall unless otherwise if they had an option they could go back to discuss with these Property Owners to get a legal Outlet through that site and uh so I believe actually their proposal was to go through a retaining wall the retaining wall is going to be uh designed and in accordance with the city standard a professional engineer has to design the uh the retaining wall and uh in accordance with our standards and also in in accordance with the grading plan they are also prop proposing the drainage uh towards the condo Road and they are proposing um a permeable pavers and the infiltration systems within the condo road to contain 100e storm within the site so there is no major impacts also to the city roads so they are containing all the flows actually within the site and we will be reviewing this in detail at the site plan uh sorry at the uh drop plan of condo uh uh uh stage and if you look at the appendix D condition nine there is already a condition included the applicant actually has to submit grading servicing retaining wall design and all components for the staff review before we approve the uh servicing and Grading uh thank you uh to you chair um I think the director answered the essence of number two so I'll skip over for that one uh number three in the correspondence it asked how will staff's lack of support for the 4 meter fence at the street which is supported by the writers of the correspondence AFF the retaining wall if there is an opinion on that please uh through you counselor through the chair uh so the modification that the the uh the letter refers to is for uh in our zoning bylaw there's a regulation that uh limits uh visual barriers along Street lines uh So currently we don't don't allow a barrier that's 1.8 m to I believe it's 2.5 MERS within 3 meters of the street line um staff are are we have policies in the official plan that we want to maintain um you know pedestrian friendly streets so that's why we discourage those barriers along the street line uh however in this case as you heard previously uh the highest section of the retaining wall will be towards the rear of the property not at the um at the street line um the at the street line the uh the retaining wall will be below 1.8 MERS so it will not um by definition will not be a visual barrier excellent thank you very much and through you chair one last question I'll direct this one to director Hollingsworth hollingworth excuse me um in it in the correspond the writers claim that the development is not supported by the city's Transportation master plan which I don't believe is the case uh and it states um concerns about traffic so I know there's a traffic study maybe director if you could just through you chair just um expand on that for public consumption yeah through the chair uh Brian hingar director of Transportation Planning and parking uh I'm I can't think of any policies in the transportation master plan that would include such a development like this uh from a traffic perspective it's it's relatively relatively minor very low Generation Um almost we would just consider it similar to a single family residence great thank you very much those are all my questions I I'll take back the chair okay quick check for any other speakers seeing none we have a mover and seconder uh so we'll vote to accept the report recommendations to approve the report recommendations thank you can I excuse me to the chair um um the applicants consultant that was making a presentation had the motion about correcting the bylaw uh matter on the for the front yard the percentage of landscaping so I just want to bring that to your attention oh okay I I apology I missed that so would we be able to then get some warning or Wilson I'm assuming giving the bench is bringing us up that's supported by staff okay through the chair to the coun yes if there could be support with language that's supported by staff we' be happy to move that given that I think our chair is in our chair so happy to move it is it making an amendment to the wording in the bylaw oh yes reenal D acting director of Del planning there there's a change to the bylaw we're adding four additional words to the by law it's sorry it's under under the specific site specific 896 it says minimum landscape barria now currently at 48% we're adding minimum landscape area in the front yard 48% okay the clerk will get that written out I think we'll put up on the screen maybe if we can for Community to see I think it's pretty straightforward can you just confirm that wording again for me it says minimum landscape area in the front yard 48% yes it's moved by councelor Alex Wilson and I think the second was councelor cret thank [Music] you okay is everyone okay with that the vote is up that carries unanimously and my apologies for for missing that and thank you for speaking up so we could do that so now we're on to the to approve the report recommendations as amended y same mover and seconder thank you and that vote is up and that also carries unanimously thank you everybody moving along to 11 discussion items item 11.1 is application for Ministry of the environment conservation and Parks Environmental Compliance approval for a waste disposal site waste processing and transfers station reference number 3285 cw2 p8e 354 Nash Ro North in Hamilton the report number is PED 24132 it's in five and this was referred um deferred excuse me from the August 13th meeting and also a reminder was the subject of a delegation earlier this morning so would we like to see the staff presentation board counselors ning said yes so we will proceed with that we just taking a moment to get that set up [Music] okay we'll get your mic on if you don't mind introducing yourself and then go ahead with the presentation thank you thank you um sa gajer I'm the development planner um good afternoon chair members of the committee staff and public in attendance my name is sh gajer I'm a development planner with the development planning Division I will be discussing this application for the ministry of environment um conservation and Parks Environmental Compliance approval uh for a waste proposal a waste disposal site for lands located at 354 Nash Road North staff are in support of the proposed operations which would um effectively permit the waste processing and transfer facility okay um the subject property is located along Nash Road North in W five of the city of Hamilton the subject property has approximately 137 M of Frontage on Nash Road North with a total land area of approximately 3 .09 hectares the applicant has leased a portion of the subject property within which the proposed operation would take place the least portion is highlighted with the black dotted line in this map and is approximately 0.35 Hector in size the applicant has applied for an environmental compliance approval permit to the ministry uh and since the subject property is with within the C city limits of Hamilton the applicant is required to submit an application to receive comments from the city of Hamilton the subject property is located along Nash Road North and is surrounded by General industrial area and light industrial uses such as commercial Plaza Transportation storage Truck Repair Truck Wash and other similar uses this is a location map showing the subject site and the zoning of surrounding properties this is a layout plan of the operations the propos is is to operate a liquid soil processing site to manage excess soils and slurry created from hydrovac equipment which are used to undercover utilities and conduct utility utility locates as we can see in this layout plan the offices are proposed to be in the south of the least portion as we and as we go north there is a storage and staging area and the northernmost portion is where the actual processing operations would take place this is a photo of the north gate of the subject property where the vehicles can enter and exit this is a photo of the south gate of the subject property where the vehicles can enter and exit in this photo we are looking North from the Nash Road North in this uh photo we looking south from the Nash Road uh from Nash Road South this is a photo of the north gate of the Leed portion of the subject property where the operations would take place this is a photo of the south gate of the least portion of the subject property where the offices and staff parking is located as part of the uh as part of the process this application was circulated to various departments um of the city of Hamilton and based on comments received and the analysis done by the planning department we drafted conditions to be sent to the ministry of environment conservation and parks in summary staff finds that the proposed ECA permit con conforms to the uh official plan and complies with the zoning bylaw subject to the submitted minor variance application staff recommends that should the the the MC approve the ECA permit application the conditions outlined within the report be included this concludes my presentation and I would be happy to answer any questions thank you thank you very much we do have a speakers list councelor [Applause] nan thank you three CH thank you for the overview um in any of the images that are available in your presentation the report references that there was a minor variance uh that there's nearby Residential Properties within the 300 M do you do any of the images in your slide text show the proximity um through you chair uh the images that I've shown does not show that but I do have a additional um map that shows the distance from uh the sensitive lend use to the subject property if you don't mind thank you sure okay um so this is the map which shows the the subject property um which is the hatched version over here and the star is where the the residential land uses are which is approximately 270 M from um the south portion of the the least portion okay thank you and then uh chair I have some questions but they're more in detail to the report should we just receive the presentation hold questions on the report okay thank you okay I'll do a quick scan for any other questions on the presentation not seeing any thank you very much Shel and I'll need to move in second to receive this St presentation councelor Francis councelor Wayne the vote is up that carries unanimously now if I could have a mover and second to approve the report recommendations then we'll have some discussion councel Francis councelor Wang so discussion councelor Ned I was trying to hit the button and follow the procedure thank you um if I could through you in the report there is reference to oh gosh give me a second apologize page two um item seven no sorry my apologies that's not the right one give me a second to find my reference point my apologies there's reference in one of the um itemized lists on page three that references the day-to-day odor dust Etc and I apologize my eyes are changing X II 12 thank you thank you colleagues uh that an effective odor dust noise mitigation control plan for day-to-day activities be implemented could staff please comment on like what's the expectation of such a plan um what Municipal teeth or like what what what does that look like and how do we get eyes on it as as a city thank you look to the bench through the chair can through the chair can you repeat the question then sure so in item 12 on page three um staff are indicating that there be an effective odor dust noise mitigation control plan for day-to-day activities um that would be implemented how do how does the city Have Eyes on such a plan is that something that's required to be submitted as an operational plan and how can there be what kind of evaluative uh Authority does the city have to review that plan through the chair condition so through the permit process through the environment these are the conditions we put forward to the en to the ministry to say these These are what we're looking for as part of their permit process these conditions be listed in their permit um and then we would be an ongoing regulation ongoing uh not maybe not ongoing I have to speak to byw with regards to how we would be constantly measuring this and how would be be inspecting it but part of that permit process received from the ministry these conditions there and that that effective noise and dust mitigation control they have to have a plan as part of their permit it's like uh another example would be their layout of of of soil um and Equipment layout so that'd be part of their be included as part of their permit part of their permit thank you through the ministry and then through you chair um you started referencing the role of the minicipal in terms of inspection and or compliance to that plan again through the chair the ministry is the approval Authority so we would we're putting forth our conditions that we wish to have as part of that permit the ministry ultimately still is the approval Authority and the inspection Authority we would have we are limited to what we would be inspecting as to what is happening if it's if it's uh in um into if it's conflict into one of our bylaws then we would obviously inspect that but if it's an Ministry controlled regulation the Min would have the ultimate control over that I got it so in in terms of our request to the ministry this is one of the things that we're asking for to be included inside the permit process um in terms of Municipal Authority we wouldn't have authority to inspect on the basis of these controls those control measures are in the authority of the ministry correct I would defer that question to uh our director thank you uh Mr chairman if I can assist the counselor I was just confirming with her sta if a complaint comes in from a resident or business owner about this off this property our M staff will do their own independent investigation but at the same time they will follow up with Moe staff to and see if if it's a matter that falls under M Mo's jurisdiction or if it's a city man or under our Property Standards bylaws or other bylaws so ultimately it would be a joint investigation between the two parties uh we may find them to be in contravention of our property standards by law or mle or sorry MP may find them to be in in contravention of the terms and conditions of their ECA at which time the province would take the necessary actions to require the business owner to modify or adjust their operations to bring them back into Conformity with the requirements and conditions of their ECA um so it would actually be a dual role and investigation between City of Hamilton staff and provincial staff in response to any investigation that's received to determine who has the ultimate jurisdiction as it relates to this business operations ume has in some ways more Authority by virtue of the conditions that they attach to the ECA and requiring that that business adhere to the ECA which is specific to the nature of the business I trust is clarifies the matter thank you it does thank you okay thank you for that moving down the speakers list councelor Wang uh councel an asked a lot of the same questions that I was going to ask but but I guess the one that's a little bit outstanding for me is does this business require a license from us I referred to Monica to respond do the chair to the counselor no okay thank you okay thank you councelor way Wang councelor a Wilson and councelor Francis thank you uh not question specific to this application but more so just the changing Dynamic um I have no concerns with what's reported uh it's more so just are we at the cusp of a wave of these applications they'll be they'll be very different from each other and more so just asking um how staff will be evaluating that on a go forward basis or can we expect to see similar conditions applied um are there types of considerations in which we would say no um or types of considerations in which case the testing regime or other types of soil so for example this is a pretty um anoculus as many committee members have said um sorting site other sites taking safe from active construction other places um not doing utility hookups um just wondering if there's comments about what we can expect in terms of volume of applications as well as the breadth of considerations that might be involved um I don't think this will be the last one this planning committee hears I have no concerns with this just on a go forward through the chair with the volume of applications that coming in it's difficult to determine the number of coming in this is this is one first one we received in several number of years from now uh we received from number of years now um with regards to the conditions we have to evaluate each application on its Merit and what it's what it's being proposed uh but there are conditions that we would be putting forth that are somewhat standard for each of them for example noise odor potential you know that we be asking for through the permit um but again through the volume it'd be hard to determine how many we' be getting and then just in terms of zoning are there um types of zoning uh this is an industrial site is that what we can expect for future sites are there other types of sites that might be applicable in the future um I'm I just I know that there was Public Notices sent out um in word 13 about proposals to do this kind of when the registration first came out I think they're several years from being in front of a planning committee but just understanding that there's lots of folks there uh community members interested yeah I guess yeah what are the types of land uses or is that are we still developing that much like the storage review coming later is as this becomes a bigger thing we may need to look at zoning through the chair with regards to the zoning Zoning for the for the specific use this use is is permitted in the industrial area if an application were to come in that was not permitted then then our recommendation would most likely be not we're not supporting a permit of that sort uh again we would evaluate the application where it's where it's being proposed um it's difficult to answer what the what the future zoning will be but currently right now if an application would to come in just for the sake of argument in a residential Zone it would obviously be a no um but we are mostly focusing these in the industrial area thank you those are my questions really appreciate that thank you Council Wilson Council Francis thank you chair just some final comments for me no questions um but I do appreciate my colleagues uh questions they were uh excellent in sort of clarifying this and you know an important role that we play is to articulate to the public you know what our responsibility is as municipality and you know what the ministry's responsibility is sometimes there's some gray lines there so I appreciate the dialogue here um to try to um you know mitigate some of those um clarify some of those concerns um you know I'm I'm not entirely vinced that the it's going to be odorless or there will be no negative impacts to Clifford Brewery um you know Clifford Brewer is an important uh cultural and public space for our community they host many events they host many local bands uh they've invested a lot in our community it's been kind of exciting to watch them um you know get going you know this startup company around the time of covid and and work through all those challenges some of the city's bureaucracy um you know in the early days uh in working their way through the pandemic and now being a successful business and the reason I I bring up Clifford Brewing is just because you know clearly they are the most vulnerable uh and most impacted by this application based on their the configuration and the proximity to them um you know I appreciate staff bringing forward these conditions um you know it's my hope that the uh Ministry does accept them um you know as folks know you know in the W 9 Community the W 10 Community Sony Creek uh in my Community uh we've been negatively impacted by landfill odors you know constantly for the past few years and um uh you know this application at Nash certainly will stir up some of that um uh concern as well so you know I hope my hope is that by putting forward these recommendations that the ministry accepts them um you know should they even approve the application um you know if we deny this report I want to make that clear as well if if to the public if we deny this report we're going we will end up with conditions from the ministry that we're not going to be happy with so uh you know it's important to accept actually what staff for recommending here and um you know I've said this earlier today you know our city is evolving rapidly um urban areas of our city are intensifying rapidly we're seeing the indust industrial sector uh change quite significantly in transform to uses that include more public retail and Hospitality components and I I predict that's going to continue I sure I'm sure we're going to continue to see that and more applications like this as councelor Wilson uh has outlined so I'm suppor of of um of staff's recommendations I've just add I you know i' strongly consider the ministry um to consider the negative impacts before approving this and um you know we all know how from experience how difficult it can be to unscrambled as egg um if expectations are not met so that's my comments thank you chair all right excellent thank you councelor Francis seeing no more speakers we have a move in seconder we will go to the vote to approve the recommendations votes now available that carries unanimously moving along 11.2 on the agenda is self storage facilities review uh ci24 D it's report ped 24135 we do have a staff presentation would committee like to see the staff presentation yes please uh we have Lucas mascato Carboni welcome e good morning chairs counselors the public and staff I'm Lucas Moscato Carboni a planner with the zoning bylaw reform team in the planning and economic development department we are here here today to present the findings of the mhbc report on self storage facilities in the city of Hamilton and seek direction to update permissions and regulations related to self storage facilities in the city let's begin with some background information here so traditionally self storage facilities have been designed with convenient and uh direct vehicular access to individual units they allow patrons to park in front and load and unload items easily they commonly consist of rows of single story linear buildings was access from one or both sides through large Overhead Doors separated by Drive aisles the premises are usually enclosed by fencing and secured by a gated entry these facilities usually include an office or Administrative Building for purchases of accessory purchases like moving supplies or the business operation uh the unit included in this uh slide here is on berford road on the corner of Graz and self-service it's kind of emblematic of that traditional self storage facility type the Self Storage industry has experienced changes in response to shifting demands increased remote work downsizing family transitions apartment living and small business needs have led to a surge and demand for storage facilities as a result self storage companies are adopting modern designs and multi-story structures along with offering extra Services newer facilities provide diverse unit sizes and incorporate features such as Drive-In Bays 247 secure access and various auxiliary services like parcel reception document management boardroom spaces and even retail stores the evolving nature of Self Storage has led to outdated policy and zoning regulations therefore necessitating zoning amendments to accommodate the changing built form and additional Services provided the image at the bottom of this slide is that diamond facility located in Ottawa which is referenced by the earlier delegation that includes ground floor commercial space in this case a Hockey Life store so staff Direction at the February 19th 2019 planning committee meeting staff were directed to undertake a review of Where self storage facilities are located and permitted within the city of Hamilton staff subsequently contracted mhbc planning to undertake an assessment of the Self Storage use and examine how new self storage facilities could be integrated into more urban Zone zones and areas of the city in an appropriate manner in response to the evolving nature of this use the mhbc report contains a review of the current location of Self Storage facilities an overview on the evolution of the self- storage facilities as a use examples of how municipalities across Ontario have implemented zoning regulations for the use on a sitebiz basis and a review of Hamilton's current policy framework and Zoning permissions the mhbc report also provides a number of recommendations for updates to the permissions for self storage facilities in zoning bot number 0 5200 including proposing options for a new or modified definition of self- storage facility permitting self storage facilities in certain commercial and mixed use zones downtown zones and Transit oriented Corridor zones allowing flexibility in the location of self- storage facilities within buildings including ground floor or Street facing facades and finally Preserve Ving permissions for traditional self storage facilities in industrial zones the mhbc report recommends that staff consider the proposals above and conduct further evaluations to inform the development of updated regulations for this use moving on to the analysis section here the Urban Hamilton official plan permits warehousing uses although they aren't explicitly defined within Urban corridors retail and outdoor storage or Warehouse like characters are supported as well as Services catering to drive by consumers many warehousing and enclosed storage within arterial commercial areas is also permitted and within employment areas clusters of economic activities including warehousing warehousing along with ancillary uses that support local business and employees so what zones currently permit self- storage facilities currently the Self Storage use resides within the definition of a warehouse as a mini storage facility the use is permitted in most industrial zones and the the arterial commercial Zone within B zoning b5200 the zones are stated here in the chart where are self storage facilities currently located based on 2023 data from the municipal property assessment Corporation also known as impac Hamilton ranked fourth in Ontario for self storage space with just over a million square feet of gross floor area TR trailing behind Toronto Ottawa and Miss Saga anticipated growth in highdensity residential projects throughout the city is expected to drive increased demand for self storage and currently Hamilton has over 30 self storage facilities in varying forms and size as you can see here in this map created by staff in July of 2024 self storage facilities are distributed throughout the City particularly clustered along the periphery in areas that are predominantly employment lands or more industrial or arterial commercial in nature self storage facilities located in the rural area were either permitted through site specific zoning permissions or legal non-conforming uses as they predate the current rural zoning regulations I'll pause on this for a few seconds so you can see where these facilities are located so what regulations currently exist for self- storage facilities in permitted zones since self storage facilities fall under the warehouse use specific built form regulations are not provided in zoning bylaw number0 5200 with the exception of the research and development M1 Zone which stipulates that warehouses can only be permitted within existing buildings the regulations reflect the built form permissions of each Zone this ensures Simplicity consistency and uniformity in the urban landscape as zoning regulations dictate aspects like Building height setbacks and gross floor areas per use the following are recommendations from the mhbc report number one the creation of a self storage facility definition currently self storage facilities are permitted in 10 of 14 Industrial zones and the arterial commercial C7 Zone categorize under the broad definition of a warehouse use which is written on the slide above it's important to note that the terminology for self storage facility uses is unclear within the warehouse definition with the term Min storage facility leading to potential misinterpretations the mhbc report suggests adding a specific definition for self storage facilities to Hamilton zoning byw number 0520 the new definition should cover Standalone self- storage facilities and those integrated into mixed use developments self storage facilities range from traditional single story to multi-story Standalone structures and mixed use Integrations and the definition should accommodate variations in build form and inary uses common in modern self storage businesses the uh example on the slide here in this photo is located on Fruitland and Barton Road and it is a part of a larger mixed use development that includes commercial Plaza spaces and uh some drive-through restaurants okay so number two the addition of Self Storage as a permitted use in various zones the mhbc sorry um this traditional self storage facilities have usually been Standalone structures with limited ancillary uses however there's a shift towards integrating these facilities into mixed use developments especially in urban areas to maximize land use the mhbc report recommends expanding self- storage permissions in the district commercial C6 Zone this Zone design is designed to enhance Street presence and already permits various retail and service commercial establishments allowing Self Storage here would align with the commercial Focus especially when clustered with ancillary uses the report also suggests permitting self storage within Transit oriented Corridor and certain CMU zones as a part of mixed use developments by limiting the percentage of gross floor area dedicated to Self Storage the mhbc report finds that it could address balancing the mix of both residential and Commercial activities additionally in some downtown zones the report recommends allowing self- storage in mixed use developments with floor area limits this approach would prevent Self Storage from overshadowing the area's primary function while aiding in the conversion of underused Office Buildings zones where self storage facilities are not recommended the mhbc report recommends that the self storage facility use should not be permitted in the following zones within Hamilton zoning bylaw number 5200 mixed use medium density pedestrian focus c5a zone mixed use pedestrian Focus D2 Zone Downtown residential D5 Zone and downtown multiple residential D6 Zone the above zones are mandated to encourage an active pedestrian environment that both preserve and enhance stable residential areas and are therefore not compatible with varying forms of self- storage facilities expansion to additional zones will be evalu sorry the next steps is that expansion to additional zones will be evaluated based on each Zone's intent distribution compatibility with existing uses and restrictions recommendations from the mhbc report will also inform updates of self- storage regulations in zoning bylaw number 0 5200 supported by ongoing consultation with staff from across planning and economic development staff will report back to the planning committee with draft permissions and regulations for self- storage facilities in conclusion staff acknowledges that as the city continues to unlock Housing Solutions and expand the range of housing options for residents there will be a parallel increase in demand for accessible Storage Solutions these facilities are essential in supporting residents as they navigate diverse living situations while also preserving their ability to maintain Hobbies memories and small businesses in transit accessible areas it is critical to balance these needs with the evolving landscape of housing in Hamilton this concludes my presentation on summarizing the key issues and recommendations regarding self storage facilities in the city of Hamilton thank you thank you very much for that we do have a speakers list first councelor tatterson followed by councelor [Music] Dano uh thanks for that presentation um just I noted in the report it basically says that the rural Hamilton official plan restricts use to agricultural practices and other sensitive activities so warehouses and self storage facilities are not permitted within the rural area that's correct right through the chair to the counselor that's correct yes okay so here's my concern um we have urbanized rural centers like Bim Brook Carlile orne felon they're totally surrounded by rural lands and some have very little storage um zoning inside that Rural Center and and let's just say the Rural Center is urbanized um so I understand that we need to preserve agricultural lands but my focus is on Rural property Lots around our city just like outside the urban boundaries that are close to these rural centers that are already designated as industrial or commercial properties um that could be redeveloped for storage purposes but due to their historical uses um those uses are grandfathered and they are limited by those uses so again I guess what I'm saying is outside these rural centers were stored just not allowed or very limited it could be like an old car repair garage or an old lumber yard a former machine shop or a general store um the limit like if if we want to do Redevelopment on these properties it's limited to their historical uses so I guess here I go waving the rural flag again can we have some consideration for those rural industrial commercial properties that if they are redeveloped that could allow for more inclusive storage to support the residents living in rural centers that also need storage through the chair to the counselor staff recognized and acknowledge the issues and needs of rural residents and we are open to continuing to examine those needs and to see where we can evaluate and expand self storage options in the rural area I'm not sure if any of my colleagues on the chair would like to answer that question as well uh through the chair to the counselor um you we are there's within the rural area our official plan policies are governed by the green belt plan so a as a blanket permission it would to allow for self- storage facilities within the rural area would not based on a preliminary review of The Green Belt plan would not comply with the green belt plan so that is the basis for the current official plan policies that restrict the range of uses in the rural area but the ward counselor is correct throughout the rural area there are existing uh Pro there are properties with existing site specific zoning permissions that related to previous planning de decisions and uses of the property and on a case-by Case basis as those properties come up for redevelopment opportunities the greenbell plan and our official plan does allow for the opportunity to consider a change in use provided that change in use is would meet the other requirements of the official plan from a sustainability groundwater protection land use compatibility issue so there is that opportunity to look at some of those existing use permissions to say could that former truck repair facility redevelop if it should come up for redevelopment what would be an opportunity a realistic opportunity to Redevelopment to allow for that site to be cleaned up remediated with the land use that would be compatible with the rural area so the the short the long answer is yes but it would have to be assessed on a site-by-site basis determine what is the current use permissions on the property and what are they seeking to do with it and how would it then would they be bble to demonstrate the long-term sustainability of that new use on that property so I we would be willing to have that conversation with land owners as they came forward to consider what could they do with this property in order to rectify an existing situation that we no longer want to see there like there's a wrecking yard you know there's an opportunity to remove a wrecking yard an automotive recycling facility with a self storage facility or great introduce that use that may be something that there's a public benefit and Merit in supporting that change in land use from the from an economic development site remediation perspective thank you so acting GM it's um I guess what I'm trying to say then it's it's gonna it's going to continue to be a case-by case basis but can there be rules written in there that that uh stipulate that case-by casee bases can come forward as opposed to being you know initially just turned down turned down turned down through the chairman to the council yes uh one of the outcomes could be that we develop official plan policies that provide guidance that say that recognizing that there are these uses in the rural area that we have recognized in zoning but over time should they come up for redevelopment what would be the evaluation criteria um there currently are some policies in the official plan already very most of those policies do um relate to protection of the natural environment protection of groundwater and being a incompatible with the agricultural operations and not causing a nuisance impact on the adjacent Property Owners but as part of that sort of Engagement with the broader community on this use we can report back on identify any uh possible official plan amendments that would provide some direction to land owners so they would know what they would have to do should they want to change the use of their property thank you and thank you for that and I just kind of wanted to highlight that we have situations where storage is allowed but it's very limited in storage so you can have indoor storage where someone can park their trailer it used to be say an old garage they can park their trailer with um two ATVs on it but should they take those ATVs off they can't rep Park their trailer back inside that space so I just wanted to kind of you know highlight those limitations and and and you know if we can have some flexibility and in those in those suggestions for guidance I think that would serve the my rural communities very well so thank you very very much for that I really appreciate your answers and I think that that will plate my uh cons I guess my residence out there so thank you very much I appreciate it okay thanks Council tatterson we do have a growing speakers list councelor Dano followed by Ketch and Nick mein go ahead councelor Dano thank you I have a a number of comments and and a few questions um they're not necessarily on the uh the presentation so just continue and and if if we need to to resort that out we'll figure that out um so first of all I really appreciate uh the Deep dive into self storage units this is an issue that's come up multiple times in w 8 I think I've successfully fended off three or four of these things so far um but they keep coming up and my my first comment which I think will lead to a question is just there's a bit of a fundamental issue that I have with the concept of self storage units in in that the need for self storage is generated because the development industry is building new construction that is too small that doesn't include storage um and then that is generating a parallel industry where we're basically mirroring residential development for stuff instead of people so would it not be better to focus on the development standards to encourage storage within development and not um through a parallel uh land use through the chair to the counselor uh we acknowledge that that is a concern and staff are definitely interested in examining that issue um I will also add that Self Storage uh facilities are not only for residents um particularly those in small condo living but they also service a bunch of different residents's needs from across different housing types and it's important to to make sure that there are at least Market options for uh members of the public should they choose to decide to go that route rather than relying on potentially their condo storage uh facilities or their apartment storage facilities which often times within the development industry do charge the individual resident or add are added to the additional cost of the unit purchased okay thank you um second concern is again just talking about this parallel land use so the resources that go into building one of these multi story multi-story self storage units um are the same resources that go into building residential um multistory construction so right now we're seeing a a huge downturn in the residential multi-story construction industry on the basis that the business plans don't work that it is uh cost too too much to build for what units can sell for therefore uh property owners are holding off actually building new residential construction it's it's a huge uh issue across Ontario so the reason why the cell storage units are becoming more more popular is because their business plans are much more simple and much more profitable than residential but they're using the same resources so are we concern that by enabling self storage units that we are um diverting resources that would otherwi go otherwise go to residential construction through the chair to the counselor member thank you for your question um I'm going to pass that over to my colleagues on the bench can you repeat the question I'll try to be brief so we have competing interests you know as a mun IP ality we're trying to encourage residential construction we have a mandate from The Province to encourage residential construction the resident self storage units essentially utilize the same resources labor materials equipment that residential construction does so are we concerned that by enabling self storage units in the same areas that we're are at risk of diverting those resources from our residential construction Alanta fford supervisor of zoning B reform um I just will indicate that sort of part of um key next steps in the process here is to work with colleagues in ecdev um and elsewhere they obviously have expressed um some concerns around you know that that balance and so um I can't provide sort of answers but can indicate that we are aware um of those concerns and realize that that has to be a key part of the discussions going forward I very much appreciate that and understanding that there's no decision point on the on the table today that it's it's further work um my my third point is on the issue of of neighborhood character and this is something that's come up a number of times when self storage facilities have been uh proposed and often proposed in the format of there's an unused part of a parking lot in a shopping center something like that so instead of building a neighborhood or residential development or even commercial development where there is um you know it becomes part of the neighborhood you end up with a self storage box that really doesn't add in any way to the neighborhood character and I know in the report there are quite a bit of discussion about how we can incorporate that um but I just wanted to highlight especially those Standalone facilities how will we uh consider those impacts on the the the viability of vibrancy of neighborhoods through the chair to the counselor um staff have engaged in preliminary conversations with um different staff from across the department in regards to some of those concerns um on at this stage we don't really have any answers for that but we are um continuing to work on those Solutions as we continue to examine the changing Dynamic of this industry thank you um how am I doing for time chair you have time for another question okay um so there's been a number of applications for C5 zoning um in in w 8 um that we have have successfully diverted uh for now I'm I'm very appreciative of the parts of the report that talk about value added of of incorporating components of cell storage to different um um zoning types but my my big concern is the Standalone stealth storage facilities um as I said before that are that are in you know a shopping Center parking lot or something like that um how are we going to differentiate between you know whether so so just as an example you have a C5 Development main floor commercial maybe you want to add a floor of self storage or two floors of self storage and then five or six floors of of residential I I think that makes a lot of sense what I don't think makes a lot of sense is just a six or eight story straight self storage unit because again the the the um differentiation between residential and and cell storage so um moving forward I I'm I know you know staff are considering that as well but how how might we differentiate between those Standalone units and when they're incorporated into uh do a more fullsome development through the chair to the counselor as staff continued to evaluate the self- storage use on a Zone per Zone basis we will continue to examine whether or not that zone is compatible not only with the neighborhood character and also Self Storage facilities whether that's a part of a mixed use development or Standalone structure as well um I would also add that I don't I think self Standalone self storage facilities um can be incorporated well into neighborhoods there are examples here in the city of Hamilton one of the pictures I used on the slide was from vultra Storage which took over 1930s Warehouse building um so I don't necessarily think that they're incompatible but staff are continuing to examine what that would look like on a Zone by Zone basis thank you and just last comment if if I still have time um I believe on a square foot basis that a steal storage facility pays commercial property taxes so the the tax Bas is whether it's it's retail or sell storage or whatever they they pay relatively the same um from a tax-based perspective yeah through the chair to the counselor I'm going to pass that question over to anyone on the bench through M or Mr chairman that is my understanding and I was also just doing some preliminary research and it appears that it's assessed on an income approach as opposed to a replacement value cost which actually results in self- storage facilities having a higher assessment rate than a traditional Warehouse uh to your earlier questions about can we establish performance standards to regulate what percentage of a mixed use building is self- storage the short answer is yes we have done that currently in the zoning bylaw where we allow mixed use development between residential and Commercial we do have minimum amounts of non to in order to ensure it's not a residential building with a little commercial office we say that you know the ground floor or a certain percentage has to be non-res or res so we could develop performance standards in those areas where we're sort of infilling and we want to maintain the vibrancy of the main streets those commercial areas by saying this restricting the percentage of the building that is used for self storage facility in addition to having requirements as to how they animate and program the ground floor so it's not just like a drive-thru and then you go into the self storage for facility um and I think some of the models that we showed in other communities where they make it mandatory that the ground floor or the first two or three floors be animated programmable space and then the Self Storage becomes you know floors 5 through seven or something to that effect that'll be part of the conversation within those zones especially the zones where we want the retail and pedestrian environment to thrive what should be the appropriate restrictions and regulations to achieve a balance between um uses so it's not essentially just a self- stor facility with a token office on the ground floor which causes the concerns for the community that it really just creates dead space thank you thank you I really appreciate that I'm looking forward to the next steps um I think there are a lot of positives here especially um you know if we're talking about growing the commercial tax base this is perhaps one mechanism to do that my my big red flag is self storage displacing residential on areas where we we definitely want residential such as as C5 mixed use commercial residential um or especially the transit oriented corridors uh that's a big red flag to allow self storage on a Transit oriented Corridor which we set up specifically to promotee uh residential construction so I'm looking forward to the next steps thank you thank you on to councilor crch yeah I had a few comments I'll save um for after but my question really is about the form of parking one of the things about these larger spaces that we for self storage is kind of I think massive parking areas for people to be able to drive right up to the door if you look at some of the the parking fac sorry the storage facilities I've seen in W 3 for instance they have a much smaller footprint for parking and then they have like the ability to drive into a bay and get a little cart and go up and do things right so that seems to be a little bit better in terms of reducing the parking footprint um but a large component of this always seems to be about parking regardless right even even the ones in War 3 I can think of still pretty fairly size parking lots there um what are the kind of storm water demand management things that are being thought about here and innovated here in terms of how we build these specific kinds of facilities so we ensure that they're may be built very vertically if they're if they're done um so the parking is not going to be an issue in the storm waterer system through the chair to the counselor I'll answer part of that question generally speaking self storage facilities don't require a lot of parking um you know the the nature of the business is that people will drive up load or unload items and then leave so generally speaking they don't usually have a large um parking footprint that being said a part of our team's ongoing efforts is the parking standards review where we are continuing to review um parking ratios for non-residential uses so that will be continuing to uh involve some ongoing work on our team that may address some of the concerns regarding large parking spaces for these structures yeah and I probably misspoke slightly I mostly just meant there's a lot of ashalt I guess that's what I'm was trying to say I look at it as parking as topograph when you look at the map it looks like the little parking spaces everywhere or it appears that way but it's just very ashphalt heavy so I'm just flagging that as you know we don't need to have it be so ashal heavy and such a high demand on our storm water system yeah I really agree with what councelor Dano said I really appreciated that point about how we look at housing in comparison to what were our demands and needs are in a housing crisis and and you know incentivizing storage is a problem I think it'd be great if the forthcoming report as you spoke to really looked at what these things are used for I know for for instance living downtown and being downtown used some of these facilities before because you're in a situation where it's like oh um I need to do something with these materials I have and for a temporary period of time going to put them here for a minute and then I'm going to take them out I've heard some counselors using storage stuff to store their campaign materials between elections like I've heard of that happening pretty routinely right there's all kinds of uses of these things uh seniors who are trying to downsize like you know while they're downsizing they figure out what to get rid of they need somewhere to put their items right so having them only be outside the downtown core makes it tricky um and so I think it is nice to be able to have some of this integration I think a suggestion i' put out there for you is when GM Thor was here there was a meeting where he spoke to us allowing to be more public parking in private development so if you look at all the towers downtown if there was one layer of public parking in each one of those Towers we could remove a surface parking lot everywhere there was a layer of public parking the same can be said for Self Storage right so I know that developers are reticent to include storage in modern buildings I live in one where that's the case so I understand and so sometimes you need to store something um seasonal things whatever it might be okay if we had a layer of Self Storage right in every building that we were they were putting up um what would that do to eliminate the need for these self-purpose built self storage facilities right so there'll always be need for some of them but we could probably reduce the need for all of them or more of them sort of by just but just play a layer in so if you could maybe come back and the report with what do people use these things for actually because businesses also use them for their own seasonal Goods like small businesses who's using these things and is there a potential for trying to incentivize people to put them in a development a later a time so we can avoid um using space up on the ground for housing thank you we have councelor mcmein followed by councelor a Wilson thanks chair um I really appreciate U the timeliness of your report it's um it's a demand driven thing and um I happen to live in an old house with almost no storage so in an urban context so I I can appreciate some of the possibilities and challenges um so thanks for that um demand shifts are noted and that's appropriate to do a deeper dive on that uh I do did appreciate the comments from my colleague uh um Mark tedison about uh you know sensitivity to the rural area there are in fact some areas where open storage in a non- asphalt space uh would well serve the community youd have to take care of issues like impact on the closest adjacent neighborhood Etc but I I would just swag that um on page uh what page was it 64 of the report there was a reference to sensitive land use which caught my attention and I want to say this for the record um if anything goes into rural areas in particular what I think is sensitive land use I I think of ensuring that there's no um integration anywhere around a wetland uh that is really from from my perspective a Sacred Space uh the green Green Belt doesn't Encompass all rural areas as you probably know so that's not necessarily an impediment so I appreciate you're going to do uh more work uh I thank you for that I think it is timely and appropriate and U be anxious to see what wonderful uh opportunities you open up for the citizenry of our bouett city thanks thank you thank you councilor a Wilson thanks through you chair thanks Luc for the presentation just a couple quick questions about the scope moving forward and I'm thinking they may actually be to mle but just wondering as the work goes forward I'll just Echo the comments about yep U multi-use better I think we've heard that today don't need to hang it on but I think the bigger pieces as the uses are developed a site that's for storage it has internet on site it's more service the more multi-use it is there's more servicing in place there's more functionality in place that's great it also creates a potential enforcement Hazard if those uses are changing or if space users in their kind of private environment are doing things differently I'm just wondering given seems there's a strong interest in multi-use site plans what potential operational considerations that prompts from a business licensing just enforcement perspective and how those are either scoped into this forthcoming review or scoped out under a separate conversation but just wondering where those fall in this journey we're about to walk on uh through the chair to counselor Wilson I'm going to direct that question over to my colleagues um in Emily possibly through the chair to the counselor Monica serlo director of Licensing and bylaw Services I think as we go on this journey together we'll make sure that we work collaboratively with the other departments to see if there is an opportunity for us to step in from a business licensing perspective whether that be early on or at at a later time um if the scope seems to grow we will certainly make sure that we are providing information back and forth to ensure that there's compliance with all of our bylaws thank you yeah just maybe to hit the point like you have fully serviced closed rooms that have no secur like that's quite easy now you have postal offices going there's storage there's someone else handling the mail for you um makes it quite easy to set up a business or something like that and that's often times what can happen in these units I know that so appreciate that being an early days question and staff are looking at it so thank you that was my only question all right that exhausts our speakers list thank you very much Lucas so uh move second to receive the presentation please councelor way councelor mcmein the vote is available that carries unanimously which takes us to the report may I have a moover in seconder to approve the recommendations in the report councelor R mein councelor cret any discussion on the report not seeing any okay we will go to vote to approve the recommendations in the report vote is now available that carries unanimously I'll just pause here we have a few more items on the agenda but pause to see if committee would like to take a lunch break I'm seeing that's moved by councelor cret is there a seconder councelor wang okay it's 12:30 uh the motion is to break to return at 1:00 okay we'll go to the vote okay we'll vote by hand all those in favor any opposed okay that carries thank you we'll be back for one o'clock e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e welcome back everybody continuing on with the agenda we are at 11.3 zoning compliance review application fees it is report ped 24129 Citywide we have a St staff presentation from Emily Co would committee like to see the presentation yes I'm seeing a couple nods all right e good afternoon chair members of planning committee and members of the public my name is Emily Co and I'm the acting manager of zoning and Committee of adjustment I am here today to present my report on the proposed fee adjustments for the zoning compliance review application in 2009 the zoning compliance review application then known as as an applicable law review application was introduced as a way for customers to to determine zoning compliance prior to a formal application for building permit as the zoning section was located within the building division at the time the applicable law review fee within the yearly amendment of byon number 8161 and subsequently byon number 15-58 which were in are the bylaws respecting building permits and related matters was utilized for this service over the years the zoning compliance review grew to Encompass other zoning related reviews including the clearance of zoning related consent applications uh confirmation of legal non-conforming status on a property and undertaking zoning reviews prior to formal application for minor variants building permit site plan or zoning bylaw amendments these different types of reviews take differing lengths of time to complete than the original applicable law review subtype yet the fee for the zoning compliance review application has remained the same and has only increased along with other fees in the yearly amendments to the bylaw respecting building permits and other related matters the current fee for 2024 is $277 in comparison the fee in 2009 was $155 as staff began to look toward the 2025 budget process in the summer of 2024 it was decided that the zoning compliance review fees should be appropriately adjusted to reflect the true activity based costing of each subtype rather than one flat fee applying to the entire application given the additional subtypes of zoning compliance review that have been added over the past few years additionally there is currently no fee charged for subsequent revisions to a zoning compliance review application even though the review of these revisions may take staff additional time to complete at present unless a full new zoning review is required uh in other words The Proposal under goes a complete redesign a fee is not charged for the revision of a zoning compliance review application as such a new flat fee for the revision of a zoning compliance review is also proposed so this St uh this slide demonstrates the proposed fee for each subtype uh so the fee for an applicable law review which is just um you know General review for someone who wants to determine zoning compliance and for applications in support of a building permit minor variance fight plan control applications are is $490 the fee for clearance of conditions related to Committee of adjustment consent applications is $140 the fee for determining a legally established non-conforming use is $840 the fee for an application in support of a zoning bylaw amendment is $630 and the fee for a revision to a zoning compliance review is proposed at $245 and it should be noted that this revision fee is discretionary and may not be necessarily charged in every instance where revision is required implementation of the new fees would result in an increase of approximately approximately $72,000 annually in Revenue thank you and I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have for me at this time thank you Emily pause to see if there any speakers councelor Alex Wilson thank you just confirming this change versus the earlier change in July so if I'm small business owner I'm moving down the street One commercial to the other I used to have to pay I think it was 277 or $280 is dollar but now as a result of the July report that's less than half the cost for just that simple verification and then that created a deficit I believe in that report and then over here the ones that are taking more staff time that have been charged a flat fee we raising the rates there's a bit of Revenue coming in from that as well um yeah thank you I think those nods were there but I don't know if you have any other comments yes that's correct and there I should say they are two distinct applications so zoning verification which was my report in July um that's just to verify the zoning of a property and this is a full review of all zoning regulations on a property which takes much longer just a quick comment that in addition to generating some Revenue in this report just I think that makes a lot of sense in terms of ease of use of navigating City Hall is a lot simpler of a process for those kind of day-to-day things and it's also a reduced fee so I really appreciate that thank you okay not seeing any further speakers thank you very much Emily thank you need a moover and seconder to receive the presentation Council way counselor pause the electronic vote is available oh that carries unanimously now we're on to the report can I have a move in seconder to approve the recommendations in the report councelor way councelor Alex Wilson any discussion on the report seeing none we will go to the vote it's now available that carries unanimously moving right along to 10.5 Transportation assessment guidelines this is report ped 24155 uh we have a staff presentation count committee like to see the presentation yes I'm seeing some nods okay we have Jil juki available to present we're just getting the presentation set up welcome Jill okay good afternoon chair members of committee and the public I'm Jill JY senior project manager with Transportation Planning Development approvals and I'm here today to present you with the transportation impact assessment guidelines which is an update to the former TI guidelines there we go yeah got it great the transportation assessment guidelines or tool that helps City staff the development community and consultants in preparing reports that meet the city of Hamilton's expectations the current guidelines referred to as traffic impact study guidelines have been in place since 2009 an update to the guidelines was required to reflect the current Transportation policies and achieve the desired outcomes that are established as part of the Citywide Transportation master plan the purpose of the guidelines was to provide a framework to determine the need for and focus of a study based on site location proposed land use and development size outline the acceptable type of study content and documentation and establish a method ology in formats for studies and provide a basis to determine existing and future transportation system improvements or establish benchmarks for comparison of Transportation Network performance before and after development they also complement the Hamilton complete streets design guide guidelines which incorporate the consideration and mitigation measures to reflect the guidelines provide objectivity and consistency for all assessments submitted to the city and provide a basis for discussion between the development Community for mitigation measures rightaway improvements and potential for cost sharing overall the guidelines provide the necessary information and criteria for a transportation consultant to prepare a report that meets the city standards and requirements in the event they do not undertake a pre-study consultation with Transportation Planning staff the key updates in this version are a renaming of the guidelines to reflect a multimodal approach previously they were trans traffic impact study guidelines again we've taken them to Transportation which is taking a holistic approach and reflecting the levels of service for all Road users the process this an updated process to include a defined pre-study consultation stage and checklist that would hopefully be submitted um in advance of a study is to operationalize the complete streets policies and incorporate a multi-level multimodal of service component it's to provide clear guidance on mitigation measures including as different considerations to be undertaken when looking at the mitigation measures such as is there adequate right of way in order to accommodate the measures that they've identified and to update the various methodologies and parameters based on current industry standards and going forward the way that the guidelines have been designed is there can be easy updates to the appendices to reflect any changes in guidance and methodologies and standard practices without the indust throughout the industry so the multimodal level of service which again is a new component in this set of guidelines is a methodology for an analyzing the level of service experienced by users of different modes along Street segments and intersections and that includes pedestrians cyclists Transit which in effect before their Transit Riders their pedestrians uh Goods movement and Automobiles the multimodal level of service approach builts upon the traditional transportation engineering concept of level of service for vehicles and now applies it to all of the other modes and it considers factors such as safety and comfort for cyclists and pedestrians Additionally the multimodal level of service assessment provides a flexibility for City to set the target levels of service PR for prioritizing specific modes and this is such as prioritizing pedestrians in downtown and Transit on the f LRT and blast Network corridors it outlines specific Direction on applicable mitigation measures and again provides the guidance of additional considerations such as offsets from intersections for left turn Lanes distance between intersections and again do the mitigation measures fit within the actual right of way and the mitigation measures have been expanded to reflect the complete streets and vision zero policies the expected outcome of the guidelines is to clarify expectations for the development Community leaving to more efficient reviews and approval timelines the reduce the unnecessary work by scoping study requirements for each development and also that gives us a little bit more flexibility in terms of the type of study that we require based on the development and the location and the potential for um mitigation measures for all modes of ser for all modes of travel and it contributes to the city's Advan the complete streets and View Vision zero initiatives thank you thank you very much Julie we do have a speakers list councelor Wang is first J I'm sorry than um through you chair just a question I appreciate the level of work and the amount of work that has gone into this um specifically i' really like to dig a little deeper into the multimodal level of service in this C term we've actually thrown around different lenses we've talked about a gender based safety audit we've talked about climate lens how do those kind of impact the mm um and has have those been considered or are we working towards something that makes it a little more fome in that regard okay through the chair to the counselor um the multimodal level level of service assessment that we're using within our guide or proposing to use within the updated guidelines comes from the Ontario traffic manual guidance Ontario traffic Council multimodal level of a service approach and is more of a blanket all-inclusive approach whereby such as for example for pedestrians looking at things like such as the width of the sidewalk for Transit it is do we have amenities for Transit Riders and shelters and stops and things like that so we don't specifically specifically look at the inclusivity and Equity portions of this but almost by default included within the OTC multimodal level of service guidance it's including those types of considerations for all Road users okay my second question then through you chair is um this is serving as a guide and it's where does this sort of fit in so how would I guess I want to understand the operationalizing of this so when would they when would anybody um like start to use this guide and how do we attach different things like the safety audit gender based safety audit it or anything like that after the fact I do understand that it is within the realm of possibility now but I'm just saying like what does that how do I use this in in a more practical sense okay yes through the chair to the counselor so today the way that everything's works is within the official plan there is a policy that requires a transportation assessment for anything that requires an official plan Amendment or a major rezoning and secondary to that would be the guidelines required for a TI so so that is the guiding policies and principles that are accepted by Transportation Planning and by extension you Council has approved those previously in 2009 so going forward um I'll take it actually I'll take a little bit of a step back so the previous guidelines were a little bit more comprehensive in terms of the types of studies that we could identify within it it was a little bit more Broad and gave us a little bit more flexibility but a few years ago in changes to the official plan there was terms of reference that had to be identified for specific studies that typically would have been included included within a TI previously now those are separated out and we have terms of reference now for um cycling assessments Transit assessments pedestrian and sidewalk assessments roadway safety audit assessments so those have been pulled out so this set of guidelines now focuses more predominantly on the assessment for the levels of service and direct Transportation roadway sidewalk impacts for developments okay so these replace previous guidelines and it get a little bit more focused and then in within this updated set of guidelines we've identified the needs need for those other studies but they will be determined um on their own separate merits and typically that would happen through the formal consultation process if undertaken for a development application okay thank you for that I think outstanding still for me is how do we tie this back back to some of the council priorities we've spoken about previously which includes gender based safety audits climate lens climate adapt adaptation uh that's still a disconnect for me but I suspect that that's a little more of an educational aspect for me moving forward so thank you for your presentation okay next on the speaker list Council M Wilson thank you chair first off thank you to staff for the presentation in the report um I'm very appreciative of councelor Wang's question um I too I think need some clarity and if I could begin just to make sure I understand uh how this is to be applied so these standards are when there's a development application um we're using this guide to determine um and to affect how and when uh we're assessing the transportation impact of a potential development am I understanding that correctly yes through the Church of the Cure yes okay thank you and could you explain to me uh through the chair then you've made reference to an Ontario standard and their levels of service and then um you're giving an overview of this I I am just trying to understand um is this in addition to is this as a consequence of said corporate priorities uh set by this elected body I'm trying to understand the distinction and uh and the difference between a provincial level of standard and this thank you okay through the chair to the counselor so this is an what would essentially be considered and add on an additional type of an assessment that we could undertake in in addition to our traditional um automobile level of service assessment so the city does not have multimodal level of service guidelines at the Ontario traffic Council released there a few years ago and to date there what would be like the The Benchmark for what would be used in the industry to assess something Beyond automobile level of service so by layering the MMOs in and the appropriate contextual area it gives us the ability to assess the impacts to other modes in a much more um uh indepth way where we could use that information to determine where we might require addition additional RightWay for example for pedestrians or where we can identify where Transit facilities are lacking and also gives us the opportunity to prioritize modes of travel over other modes of travel like I said specifically in the downtown and now gives us a vehicle to prioritize pedestrians over vehicle movements depending on the corridor thank you um thank you through the chair to staff then just on that point Sorry to belabor it but these are requirements that we're making of the developer because we are not just being Guided by what is at present a vehicular dominated perspective of study and impact this is in addition to that uh bias or that uh predisposition but I if that's the case do we have the ability if this is an enhancement Beyond a provincial standard to to dictate to direct to um uh to to to require if you will so through the chair to the counselor this is not a dictation of a provincial standard what it is it's an adoption of a guidance and a a manual Pro that was produced by the antario traffic Council so again they have uh set out the guidelines for how you would assess multimodal level of service so I believe previously in our transportation master plan it was identified that multi level of service should be adopted so what we're doing is we're taking the city standard for um requirements for a transportation assessment and layering in the additional component that gives us the ability to assess all modes of travel where previously we haven't had that because again the the industry standard was typically autofocused and now this Ontario traffic Council guidance gives us the ability to look at everything um collectively and then set priorities in terms of um where we want to give better levels of service or we could have reduced levels of service based on the mode of travel and the only time that a multi well is I would say that we this now gives us the ability to ask for a multimodal level of service assessment um with any application that comes in that meets the criteria for requiring a transportation assessment so this is not a blanket approach this is not something where every development application would be required to do this only if it meets the crit IA in the official plan for requiring a transportation assessment could we then ask for this additional analysis okay I think I understand um through the chair to staff I I would like to return to the questions uh that councel weigh and the principles she was articulating um so here's I think what is for for many who are interested in this topic the thesis is as follows the present standards which guide um our developments our engineering our road classifications and all of those things that generate are informed by a particular user uh that is um not reflective of the community and the community's all of their needs and C circumstances so in particular councelor Wang mentioned um a a gender View and a gender practice as you know uh I'm getting somewhere with this we had a very interesting report offered at public works from our director of transit in which um it stated that the majority of Transit writers are women but Transit planning and design has never um uh reflected and with and supported the actual ridership needs of women and one would argue as I would that even our multimodal plans don't reflect that gender perspective um to cancer um Wang's point so I'm trying to get an answer to the question of whether we believe these standards have been reviewed and informed from a gender perspective thank you and through the Church of the counselor I would say that um the the short and simple answer is no there has not been there's not been a gender-based assessment attached to any of this this is like especially when it comes to the multimodal level of service it's with the assumption that this is just a broad overview that all pedestrians Transit Riders Etc are considered equally because the things that we're measuring as well would impact both all all genders in terms of the types of facilities that are provided and then this also collectively works with other City standards and guidelines we have like this is a jumping off point this isn't like the be all and end on there's definitely room for improvement but this is a vehicle that we can also use to help employ other City standards and practices such as working together with Street lighting um and those types of things that we would that fall under a transport lens but not necessarily Transportation Planning lens to improve the the um transportation system for everybody and actually Council Wilson the bench would like to weigh in on this as well thank you chair and through the chair to the counselor uh Steve Malloy manager Transportation Planning um just to follow up on what Jill was saying the the the true intent of the multimodal level of service approach is to improve upon our current guidelines that don't address any of this any of these things so right now we're we're not doing it uh so this is a a great jumping off point to improve these our approach to these things and to learn and to grow and to adapt um in in the multimodal level Service uh guideline in the Ontario traffic conference um report there is the ability to adjust um our targets to what we want to accomplish to uh incorporate policies such as Equity lenses to this to that would affect adjustments to the uh results as well as the targets that we set to accomplish the goals that we want to to accomplish um I don't believe it it it could incorporate the gender lens to things I don't think we we're not experts on that today to to address that but I think the those those things could be addressed through the targets that we're trying to accomplish um and and and things that we can adapt as these guidelines go along and how we learn from uh applying these to different applications and I also want to state that this is not solely for the use of development applications it's also for environmental assessments or any other Transportation operational assessments we may be doing and the whole point of this is again uh climate change outcomes and uh Vision zero outcomes and complete streets this is really to operationalize those policies we already have in place and this is a tool um that we haven't had before to identify those different tradeoffs uh for all the road users to create more Equitable streets thank you very much thank you very much through the chair I guess thank you for that I guess it it necessarily prompts the question of if this is the beginning and it's not informed by all users and just for argument sake say it's not informed by uh those who identify as females and you'd be wanting to set or adjust those targets so that they are informed uh how how what is the plan for uh for that opportunity thank you I I'll I'll take a crack way in here Brian holworth director of Transportation Planning and parking um I I would say that there is a lot of um things like gender based analysis already built into this process a little bit uh for example we know that that um females are you know uh prefer protected cycling facilities uh and and feel safer there uh this guideline uh allows us to make those decisions where we say no we want protected facilities over uh wider car Lanes or tning Lanes Etc I think we also have a real opportunity in some of the mitigation measures um to influence the outcomes uh depending on the local context local demographics um so there's a lot of room um once you have all the data in front of you to say okay we want to amp it amp it up for pedestrians this in this area because there's a lot of people uh walking to to employment Etc so I think there's a lot of there a lot of good stuff here um once we have the the data and the analysis done to really help um accelerate progress to a lot of the Council priorities that have been identified thank you I I think my time might be up I a closing comment from me those opportunities will not be had if there's not an acceptance fundamentally um of the methodology that they there is a distinction the practice enables us to identify those distinctions um so that all members of the community um are supported in all that they do and if there is no acceptance of that fundamental principle then it will be harder um with changes of council and other predicaments for us to um impose or impress or affect those things which should not frankly be uh dependent on uh the political makeup of council so I'll leave it there and I'll um perhaps have some offline discussions with some of my colleagues who may or may not be interested in this thank you thank you counselor next is councelor Dano thank you chair um very very pleased to see this come forward I think this is a big step forward um and also I think as was has been discussed it it sort of ties together a number of policies and changes that we've been making over the last few years uh so very positive um that this is going to be implemented as as part of um development planning and also as you said other assessments um I'm trying to just dig down a little bit more on oper operate implementation um of of the those those policies so for example um historically a development application comes forward we do a traffic impact study and it finds that there's going to be a negative impact uh on on traffic in that area there's mitigation measures that are put forward the developer is responsible for implementing those mitigation measures now we've changed a lot of our policies uh some of them have been mentioned but removing parking minimums um increasing densities for Transit oriented corridors things like that that don't really have an impact on what we've historically called traffic but certainly have an impact on uh the transportation system as a whole from a multimodal perspective so in the implementation of these guidelines so if we do do the evaluation the developer does the evaluation they find there's you know no impact on vehicular traffic but there you know is going to be an increased Demand on Transit or sidewalks or recycling facilities or whatever how is that incorporated into the acttion ual development approvals process so through the chair to the counselor so by identifying those requirements it uh I don't remember which official plan policy it is but it's the one where it it speaks to the fact that the the any impacts directly attributed to a development shall be born the cost shall be born by the development itself this lets us start to have that conversation by identifying all of the impacts whether it is to like you said the transit system or pedestrians for example in the the downtown area where we have narrower corridors we might not have the sidewalk withs that we want so that's a jumping off point for having that conversation for requesting additional right of way to accommodate what we see is the increase in pedestrians so it may not necessarily be a direct Financial contribution towards a specific Improvement but it could be additional land required for them to facilitate the movement of the traffic of all those that they're generating due to their development thank you I really appreciate that and as I said I think this is a a huge step forward to actually um operationalizing uh those policies that that we've been working so hard to uh to put in place thank you okay I'm next on the list so I'll pass the chair over to Second Vice chair Wang uh I was really really excited to see this um for the same reasons that have already been articulated and where my mind immediately went to when I heard multimodal level of service was being able to understand the interplay if you dial down one level or one mode and to dial up another what does that mean so I'll elaborate and get to my question so generally when it's very car or vehicle focused if demand increases we've added a lane or added more roads which is very expensive and we're all we're all suffering from now an infrastructure deficit which a big part of which is roads so if we're looking at multi modes now um do we have the ability and I know there's been talk it's about development applications or assessments but you know this isn't really a challenge of just individual developments but just as the city grows overall we have more people do would this enable us to say for example if we had 60 single occupancy vehicles and we put those 60 people into a bus to fill that up the impact that would have on service and then could inform you know policy we'd want implement or incentives to try to implement a multimo or a modal shift like would it would this tool help us in that area so through the chair to the counselor um it's not specifically directed towards that type of an assessment however you if we do something internally within the city as staff then we can we can use that as a tool to see the effects of this but from a multimodal level of service perspective the way that it typically works is that we would establish what the Baseline levels of service are for all the modes within the specific the study area and then we would identify what the targets are so for example we might have a level of service C for pedestrians but we know in the downtown area we want to take that to be so what it does is it takes a focus away from looking at the impacts per se to what shifts do we have and what are the trade-offs that happen in terms of level of service let's say for vehicles are we willing to accept a level of service F which is a typically poor level of service for Autos we're able to increase the level of service for pedestrians so this is it helps us identify those things and work towards the levels of service that we want or identify cases where we have a level of service we're trying to achieve for something other than other than an auto mode however to get to that here's all the impacts or or identify cases where we may not be able to get there but here's as close as we can get or the amount of improvements we can Implement that would at least provide a better environment for that road user okay I understand and appreciate that and I'd love to have an offline discussion to just take it that extra step further because you're talking about the tradeoffs but if we are able to say what would need to be true in order to balance it and have great levels of service for all modes right ultimately that's what we want if you're behind the wheel driving a vehicle you want less cars on the road which you know means more people on a bus or more people cycling or what have you and everyone is better off so appreciate the answer and you know I think there's a lot more to come but thank you and I just a little bit more to add to that to you as well the uh shift in the parking uh minimums bringing in like you know re removing parking minimums especially within the downtown area if uh that is coming to the Forefront and that's actually going to happen and we're seeing that all it's required all that's being provided is visitor and uh accessible parking you will see that mode shift regardless because if there's if people own vehicles and not there's not a place to park them then they really think do they really need the vehicle especially if there's going to be Transit running frequently outside the front door of the development where they are so this is sort of an incremental approach in where you we have to bring all the tools to the table that we have where today it starts we're at the starting point and as we go forward through implementing these guidelines with the MMOs it gives us the opportunity to refine them to reflect a Hamilton context because now we're taking something that's just a general guidance and rolling it out at the Forefront and tweaking it as we go to get the to get to where we want it to be and be the tool that we really want it to be to help not only the development Community but internally within the city for all the types of Assessments that we do no really exciting thank you for that answer so I'll take back the chair we do have two other speakers on the list First Council a Wilson then councilor cret thank you through you chair similarly very supportive just maybe trying to understand I think you just said it it's incremental and I think that's just understanding where this tool fits versus some of the other pieces so this is tied specifically to a development application and I know the steady area may be bigger than the development site itself could you help me understand through you chair how big are those steady area I know it's going to be Case by case but just for example we're looking at say the nearest intersection the roadway we're determining we need to add multimodal infrastructure like a bike lane or something like that well this development may only be one block long and so how do these pieces kind of come together given that development is going to happen in a pecem meal way but multimodal Transit needs to happen in a system way how do those two kind of approaches come together through this so through the chair to the counselor so typically when we identify a study I'll just use downtown as a context here so typically when we identify a study area while we recognize that a specific development may only have impacts on let's say a two block radius when we're scoping that study we would require the other known or approved developments within that study area to be included in that background traffic so we're adding on all of that traffic we're not just taking this as an isolated case of one building the impacts of that it's that comprehensive approach of everything that's happening around here so it's not like I said isolated in that so building upon it but the other thing that these uh mmls guidelines do it's not only tied specifically to a development application it's a tool that we internally can use to do the broader Transportation assessments that are required just from the the internal City purposes so that's where we can roll that out too where if if we needed to do a study of the downtown and what the transportation system is going to look like um you know pre LRT post LRT in terms of the number of people we're putting into here the modes of travel we're expecting them to use recognizing the fact that you the zero parking minimums are in effect for residential parking then we can start to apply the multimodal level of service to those broader studies to get a better picture of the impacts of it and what those trade-offs are how we're going to balance and what we're going to prioritize which can then inform um for example Hamilton Street Railway that we identify that we might have there's going to be capacity impacts on your system at this year and then they compare that to the reinv vision project to see if they need to do a shifting around of when improvements are made in that so it's a a tool that's like I said a jumping off point that can help the broader Transportation infrastructure within the C and the different departments that would benefit from those types of Assessments thank you so much I really appreciate appreciate that so even though we're developing this rubric for or like rubric the series of studies for development application we can use that internally we can use these same standards for our lots of different things and so that is kind of the connection thank you councilor crit thanks very much just want to Echo what all my colleagues have said about how positive and important some of these changes are especially for making our street safer and making things better for pedestrians and all Road users one thing I noticed that was missing from this and I wanted to give you a chance to comment or perhaps folks on the bench if if you don't feel it's your place to do so the word Equity wasn't in the report anywhere and I really think that centering this idea gives us a better way of engaging with how we understand this discussion right so when we talk about these technicalities and we have a relational discussion about technical things here and technical things here that's great for people who are really technically inclined to understand them when we bring it out to equity we have a broader discussion about people about how their relationship plays into all this and about where sometimes um they're inequitable outcomes and depending on where you are in the city or depending on what your circumstances might be and how you interact with those technical um policies how you interact with roads all different kinds of things right so I wonder if you could speak to that or somebody could speak to how you're planning to implement that as part of the work that you're doing going forward oh you going to go sure through through the chair um I think yeah words matter and and perhaps we didn't use uh the word Equity specifically but to to us we I think we whenever think complete streets and vision zero it's inherent in it so maybe it's just our our blindness to it because we're we're preaching from the choir here so but in terms of embedding it into the document I mean it it is an update of an existing document and we can make editorial changes to to be explicit to highlight those uh equity and Equity policies that can be incorporated into it um and also I I I do want to be very specific that in the multimodal level of service guidelines themselves from the entad traffic conference they they do have um Equity priorities embedded into that document as well so it has been addressed into the technical document so in the combination of the two we we at any time can include even uh to go beyond well the inclusive inclusive inclusiveness of equity and gender based um policies that we can embed into it thank you thanks very much I think uh it's really useful for me just to clarify it's not that I'm looking for um you to use certain kinds of language the city has um something called idea right it's a new policy that we've got a new ACR we've got on inclusion diversity equity and accessibility right so it's a city-wide policy that should apply to all the work that we do and that's really what I'm referring to here when I'm speaking about that is how we embed the work the city is doing broadly in some of our hierarch policies in all the work we do that's technical right I think one of the areas where you're right it's embedded in the work you're doing you're think thinking about this obviously we're thinking about people when we do this work right but if we use that language that's embedded in the Citywide policies in this it'll help connect us to our priorities I think make it clear for everybody where we stand on the subject thanks so much okay thank you so that exhausts the speakers list thank you very much Joe uh just need a move in secondary to receive the presentation councelor Danko councelor n the vote is up that carries unanimously may I now have a move in second to receive the report Council Wang councilor cret is there any further discussion on the report okay seeing none we will go to the vote and the vote is there that carries unanimously thank you everybody moving right along to 11.6 the Hamilton Municipal Heritage committee report 24-7 may I have a move in second to approve the recommendations councelor cret councelor Alex Wilson any discussion Council Alex Wilson just a really exciting moment I don't know if folks have had a chance to look through the 600 page appendix um to the Heritage committee report uh the Heritage staff the Heritage committee have been working on the Melville District expansion since before I got into this chair um and it's been a lot of work to get to this point today um my understanding is that the Heritage committee is recommending going forward with a designated area that doesn't mean that things are designated tomorrow we go ahead it just means that we're going to start the process of having these with land owners start the process of seeing if this District can move forward so really excited um about this opportunity today and just kind of want to really Echo thanks again from residents but also myself uh two staff for the C like tireless work on this this is huge um a district based approach uh is really necessary to preserving Heritage aspects because of changes since Bill 23 preventing us from being able to maybe move as quickly with those individual assessments we have clusters of Heritage buildings in older parts of the city like Dundas dur around here other parts and being able to protect the built Heritage and cultural heritage value of these communities given the tools we have in the toolbox just there's been a lot of creativity by staff to use these tools to expand and just really grateful that it's gotten to this point it's been supported by our volunteer committee to get here and it's being recommended that we approve it today approve it at Council so staff can start Consulting um or continuing the consultation with impacted land owners about moving forward okay thank you very much counselor not seeing any further speakers so get a mve seor I did yes I did and we will go to the vote votes there for your input that carries unanimously okay we are moving on to motions we have 12.1 well actually I'm going to pass it over to Second Vice chair Wayne because it's my motion so we're moving on to motions 12.1 Heritage plaque funding for 176 Wilson Street East and 1166 Garner Road War 12 councelor casar can you please introduce your motion please thank you uh this motion is to do with two properties 176 Wilson Street East and 116 Garner Road West that this Council has already uh voted to designate as significant Heritage properties both owners have requested Heritage plaques um so this is a motion to uh provide funding from uh more 12 funds for those plaques excellent and who is your seconder oh Council Alex Wilson wonderful um any speakers to this seeing none uh may I have the vote please what is that vote carries 11 to zero back to you councelor casar thank you very much and thank you everyone for your support moving on to notices a motion are there any notices to today not seeing any so we're at 14 general information other business 14.1 outstanding business list could have a mover and second to approve the changes to the O councilor Wang Council Nan any discussion seeing none we will vote [Applause] please the vote is there in front of you that carries unanimously which brings us to 14.2 general managers update acting GM Rob show you have an update for us no sir no updates thank you okay okay so we don't need anything further there so we are on to private and confidential 15 .1 is a Clos session minutes could I have a mve and secondary to approve the Clos session minutes from August 13th 2024 uh as presented and that they remain confidential you weren't here councelor Wang councelor cret scratched his nose we will go to the vote that carries unanimously okay now we have one more item in close does committee wish to go into close session for item 15.2 yes we do I'm seeing some nods okay may I have a move in second or to move into close session for item 15.2 pursuant to section 9.3 subsections EF and K of the city's procedural bylaw 21-21 as amended and section 2392 sub sections EF and K of the Ontario Municipal Act 2001 as amended as the subject matter pertains to litigation or potential litigation including matters before administrative tribunals affecting the municipality or local board advice that is subject to solicited client privilege including Communications necessary for that purpose and a position plan procedure criteria or instruction to be applied to any negotiations carried on or to be carried on by or on behalf of the municipality or local board moved by Council Paul second Council Dano we will go to the vote the vote is there that carries unanimously members of the public the meeting will continue following the closed session portion of the meeting when you see the members of committee rejoin the committee will wait up to 5 minutes upon reconvening an open session before proceeding with the meeting to provide members of the public and immediate time to return e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e for e welcome back everybody we have item 15.2 update on appeal to the Ontario land Tribunal for the refusal of official plan Amendment application UHA 22-4 and Zoning by bylaw Amendment application Zac Zac 22-11 for lands located at 392 to 412 Wilson Street East and 15 La Avenue in Ancaster it's report ls230 24a in W 12 can have a mve in secondary to approve uh the report and that it remain confidential councelor Dano councelor Pauls thank you we'll go to the electronic vote the vote is there [Music] that carries unanimously now we're on to adjournment move and second or to adjourn please counselor wayang counselor and all those in favor just waiting for the vote to come up there it is let's see if anyone wants to stay here councelor Dano thumbs up from councelor Dano and that carries unanimously thank you everybody meeing is adjourned