area of the future um mock maintenance Operation Center uh this location is not identified and included in the wireless master plan um as you may remember we are working through an update of the wireless master plan we're hoping to bring that to you early next year as we've been reviewing the City properties this is one we would like to recommend for addition to the master plan in the future uh but it's not currently on the master plan itself so what that means is the Land Development code identifies level one and level two applications a level one application are properties identified in the master plan level two are those that are outside of the master plan so this would be a level two application if Diamond were to apply for construction of the tower uh before the properties is included and approved in the master plan so uh any questions on the process before I turn it over to Tom to go through the presentation no all right yes sir as uh Doug mentioned my name is Tom weski I work with diamond and uh thank you Doug for all your hard work on this um I've been in front of uh this board before a few years ago we did a uh Diamond Communications has done several leases with the town we worked with the management of several of town properties I do have uh some introduction materials in case anybody is unfamiliar with diamond uh diamond is the largest privately held Tower company we do more than just simply cell towers we do we have rooftops we have INB Building Systems we do a number of things Nationwide we're up to about 140 employees at this point and so we've been working with the city of Palm Coast for the last few years on various locations both public and private we're currently in the process right now going through Planning Commission on a private site as well so this is just talking about everything else that we've done besides Diamond doing uh working on with carers on build a suit sites where they come to us with a location we also go out and we work with cities such as uh Palm Coast but we also work with private property developers in Florida we're working with couter uh we tend to try to place our Towers into their um different plan communities before they're built we try to integrate them in it's a lot easier to work with them and design it into the Pud rather than come in later and try to cram it in somewhere that doesn't fit I think the board has seen this before but um basically the coverage in pal Coast is has is lacking so this has not changed much from the presentation that was done in the last year there's been very few uh new antennas located on existing Towers nor uh new towers approved within the Palm Coast Area and within Flagler County so with that in mind that is why we are here today to talk about we're going from like to call the the bigger picture of what's going on in Palm Coast down to the very very specific site of what we're talking about here and for this particular area and this also shows all the existing Towers um different assets and coverage areas within PMP Coast what we have here is a location where AT&T has come to us and they've asked us if there's somehow we can use city property next to Route One and um the existing um residential areas to the east of Route One and how to cover those so we first looked at at the sites that were on the wireless master plan including the water treatment plant which is slightly to the south of the proposed area um unfortunately AT&T felt that was too far away and the reason they felt that was because right now the area that they want is actually located quite between all their existing sites as you can see their closest site is about 2.4 miles to the east on 95 and then you have another one to the South about 3 Mi the existing Water Treatment Plant which is in the wireless master plan is too close it's almost a mile south of where we are it's too close to their existing site to the South along Route One so that's why we're looking where we are today and on that property is um it's property that was acquired by the city there is a pad a kind of sewer uh water it's not water treatment but it's a pad area that's being that can be used by the city and not interfere with any future development it's an industrial type use currently in that spot this is what AT&T's um current coverag is within the city um the arrow is pointing towards the proposed site actually I'm not sure what it the arrow is slightly off on that side it's pointing towards an existing site but once the site is added it does add coverage along Route One and all the new homes that have been placed in that area so that's it is filling in a gap for AT&T so we have had uh previous leases with the city what we have done is um it's been a few years so we've went and we've updated the terms what we've tried to do is try to match current market economics at this point the uh main things that I do want to talk about first with the site itself it's a 150ft monopole it's not stealth it's a regular monopole to give better coverage for that area it's in a 50x 50 foot compound that compound is going to be fenced um and screened in that area with Landscaping per the code there is a um we do talk about in the leasee and we do show access coming from the public RightWay to the site are uh we we have to have an access and utility ement that comes off the public right away it's only basically here about the last 50 fet it's not extending all the way out to Route One although that's shown in the lease exhibit it's just to clarify how we're actually getting to the site just so there's no um issues regarding that so the lease itself is a 5-year term it has uh five additional terms of 5 years so for a total of 30 years the um site itself it would be an 18-month option to start that's at 20 cents per square foot since we're at 50x50 that's about the $500 option fee that 18 months is necessary for us to get through our in this case we allocated that for zoning since it's not in the wireless master plan and um with that as well we have to do studies for both phase one environmental uh fish and wildlife all that takes a about a minimum of 6 months and that's why we build in that extra time so there is Provisions within the contract that we do have to after commencement we do start paying rent um even if we have not gotten through the approval process thank you so at the start of construction there uh the previous leases that had a $25,000 fee at this point now is a $50,000 fee as soon as we start construction we cut the city a check for $50,000 for the site development fee and um the actual Revenue share to the city in the past it was just a simple amount of 40% we put in a base amount of $1,000 a month the greater of $1,000 a month or 40% and then all the other second third fourth carriers it the city would receive 50% of the revenue from that so we've increased that Revenue share to the city there is Provisions in the leas that um that any Tower would have to be taken down after 120 days of not being used and the foundation taken out to 18 in below grade and there is a bond in that leops for $30,000 for us to take down the Tower or for the city to take down the tower the lease does provide for City use of the tower at no cost that uh you're able to place your antennas for any emergency and Public Safety use throughout that area um those are the basic terms I'm happy to answer any questions regarding this or any other future develop sites we have planned within the city if I may the uh the actual physical boundaries of this uh uh compound I think you called it what are they what what borders it so this is a um the the our compound itself is 50 by 50 and currently the area is unused I can pull up a map to show you that can you just rattle off the what what what what's the biggest Road next to it uh so we are uh right on basically you have route one you have um um Matas Parkway Matas Parkway comes through on the other side and the question I have is is there any provision in the lease for billboard Revenue not on this site no we're we're not next to the highway we're actually further back from so it's not it's not practical either no not at all it's um we're on uh it's called Park Square but it's kind of like an unused Road that's why I'm not sure people are familiar with it um if you came off of mat tanas Parkway there's a cold sack to your West here we go and we're uh putting it in that small area there okay so that that answers is my question thank you yeah it's it's not right next to it you have an open area there's a gas station there in the corner so okay questions uh I have none we we are lacking in cell coverage I think we all know that yeah we definitely do need this Tower um I have a couple questions about the option so the initial option is 18 months long yes and how many square feet is this uh 50 x50 2500 square ft so it's a $500 option fee Okay so is is that per month then that we're receiving I mean what is no that's for the it's for the 18 months so we can do our due diligence on the property and make sure there's no environmental issues with using that location okay so what is the total amount of money the city of Palm Coast will be receiving for that 18-month option $500 that's it yeah is there better use of this L I mean sorry I'm I'm trying to figure out why it is we would enter into an 18-month option for city- owned land for $500 previous options I believe $1,000 is that correct Tom uh they are and um one thing that we can certainly do is change and lower that I I don't have if I realized this is not in the wireless master plan but that was the original reasoning for needing that 18 months uh we'd had some sites in the past that took a little longer to possibly get through um so I think I think this is not the same uh constraints as the other properties that uh had been looked at in the past so I have problem changing that and um increasing that feate so just so you aware Council what we did is in the past it was $1,000 regardless of the size of the compound so we tried to tie that to the size so typically they do a 75 by 75 or 100 by 100 so that cost would be closer to that ,000 we also took the cost um from the property appraisers website and divided it by the square footage to get us towards that um 20 cents that's the agreement uh try to make it fair based on the land value and is there anything else uh that we could do with this property so did do we have an intention in any other way shape or form for this piece of property other than having a cell tower on it so if if we could actually zoom in on the map a little bit you'll see that there's that little concrete area we're going right next to that okay station gotcha so that's that's the current location it's not being used in we're not blocking any future development we're not blocking any different area we're actually going right behind that concrete pad take this has been taken into consideration for the maintenance operations center it's been reviewed as part of that plan got it um and then the lease itself doesn't seem to work in any type of increase for inflation so whatever we're getting now we'd also get 30 years from now is that correct you're getting every increase that we get from each of the carriers so we get um we have our carrier lease agreements call for 3 to 4% you get that as our our whatever we get you're getting so that's why is incorporated within the revenue share itself okay um is that I mean I understand it this it's a percentage right it's not a set amount but can we add that language somehow to make that very clear that whatever the um percentage increase they're receiving will be worked into our compensation as well not a problem at all I appreciate that and I have nothing further thank you uh councilman kuus um any comment on this uh I believe he was not coming back after the break okay good thank you for holding my breath and specifically I'm sorry Council there's exhibit D is the rent schedule so that's where it would be reflected I only have one other question there are I am aware of at least one other Tower site which would be in the general vicinity not um does that have any effect on your um on the ability of this Tower to perform or or no not at all um this site would actually cover uh I I believe I know the area that you're talking about and there are um this is separate from those and um here AT&T is working with us directly on this one very good yeah okay if there are no other questions then I guess I would uh open up for public comment any comment no nothing at this time seeing no one come forward for public comment a close public comment um do you need any additional Direction no sir we'll make those changes to the uh the agreement and bring it back to you okay and when does this come back city manager I believe it's scheduled for next week on your business business agenda okay will it be on the consent probably since it was Workshop today so you want to make sure you get to see that language I guess in advance probably right I'll look at it okay very good okay well we thank you for your uh presentation thank you and thanks again for thank you and here comes the chief pile burning within the city of Palm Coast good afternoon mayor and Council Kyle Barry Hill home Coast fire chief um we're here today to talk some talk about something that uh has been an issue in our community for uh you know we've been working on this for about 18 months now and um it's definitely not the first time that this particular issue has come up and we're incredibly proud of the the way our fire department responds and we received very few complaints uh from the public and almost all of them are related to this issue and so we've done a lot of research we've heard some from the community and so we're going to talk about a little bit about um what our options are as a community with regards to this and talk a little bit about our Wildfire history and um our attorney is going to help us a little bit with this process today um so first um we've been a city obviously for almost 25 years and if you notice that um we have a significant Wildfire history in our community um the Palm Coast fire department predates the city because we were a Palm Coast Service District um for many years and so our Wildfire history has played a huge role in in where we've G where we been and where we're headed um in May of 1985 the Dorian grave fires destroyed 131 homes um by far the largest uh you know event single loss of of structures in the in the history of our community in 1998 those wildfires we lost 54 homes we had 131 homes damaged Flagler County was evacuated the only time in the State of Florida where an entire county has been evacuated I'm due to Wildfire and um uh additionally shortly thereafter our citizens chose to incorporate as a city and I believe that this was one of the driving factors associated with that and then in 2011 we had the flaggler county complex and there was over 90 fires in the county at one at one point and many structures were threatened but none were lost and so our residents are right to have this concern when they smell smoke or see smoke for them to the residents that have been here they they um are right to uh alert us and say hey do we know what's going on here um what we found in in this process is we worked hand inand consistently over the last 20 years um over the last 25 years with the Florida forest service and the 50 years we've been in a fire department so we work together to protect our residents um they have some things that are their requirements based on the state statute and what they're responsible for we'll talk about that in just a second but we train together on an annual basis um we meet uh the the supervisor of the Bell District meets with us um at a at a monthly or a quarterly uh all chiefs meeting between myself the flager County Fire Chief and the flager Beach Fire Department and so we have a great uh working relationship with the Florida forest service and so much so that we even have a Cooperative equipment Loan program um where the Florida forest service has a vehicle that is housed in one of our stations um we are using that vehicle on a consistent basis um it's a wildfire truck that's in station 23 Zone um it's the truck that we take the Wildfire stuff off of and use as a Highwire vehicle um on days that are more like today um when it's not Wildfire season and so and the Florida Forest Service could come and take that truck if they needed it but what they would really do is ask us to take it wherever it needs to go and we maintain it um we're the subject matter experts on it um a little bit more about them they're part they're under the Florida Department of Agriculture and consumer services they have the primary responsibility in the State of Florida for prevention detection and suppression of wildfires they also though they're not just firefighters um they're more than that um they're uh responsible for force conservation and Recreation and so um I'm going to turn it over now to our City attorney who in this process we heard from our you know consistently from the fora Forest Service about what we could and couldn't do um but some of our citizens heard differently from some other state agencies and so we reached out to those state agencies we found some discrepancy in some of those places but I believe that we were part of the state agencies getting on the same page um because uh we're as Marcus is about to tell you um things that we've discovered about what we can do in this process thank you Chief barill so yeah as the chief said uh during this discussion and uh researching uh our ordinances and also what we're allowed to do with regarding po burning and open burning in the State of Florida uh so pretty much what it comes down to is that all those uh dealing with po burning and open burning that is delegated that authority to the Florida Forest Service they are the only ones that are allowed to uh give a permit for that thing and also the are the only ones that are allowed to not give a permit the city is not allowed to uh say hey uh if you would like to have a permit for power Burning uh you have to get approval from us unfortunately that is not allowed unless the Florida Forest Service delegates that Authority down I reached out to their attorney had several conversations they said they have in the past to certain cities have gave that delegation but that's been some time and there is no intent on that office anytime soon anytime soon to delegate that Authority So based on that uh working with Chief barill we looked at our ordinance and unfortunately our ordinance right now says for p Burning uh it has a says that authorization has to go through our Fire Marshals which is technically not correct so that's why I have here working with City staff to make those Corrections uh today and standing by for any questions or any followup and one more thing at in addition uh is that we checked to make sure we didn't have this agreement um so so that our ordinance for whatever reason was drafted in a way that's non-compliant with State Statute additionally if we were let's pretend that the the climate changes drastically and the Florida forest service was was uh inclined to grant us this agreement we would still be required to utilize the same um uh limits associated with when to issue and when not to issue a burn and they're very narrowly tailored um and so the Florida Forest Service works with us consistently we talk to them you know multiple times a week about where pile burning is going on in the city um we visit those sites our Battalion Chiefs spent a lot of time in the matanzas area um this summer um we continue to check on the burn that's going on off of Royal Palms um and so we're very aware of where these things are going we're checking on the residents in these neighborhoods but even if they were to delegate this authority to us we would continue to have to follow the rules that the Florida Forest Service follows except that we would have to increase our capacity tremendous ously to be able to do the job that they're doing and it would be um you know a tremendous added cost and responsibility for something that the Florida forest service is doing a great job with today um when we have issues we Lobby them to make adjustments and there're as responsive as possible within the narrowly teed limits of the statute um so those are the those are the uh what we've discovered so it wasn't what we were hoping to discover um from the fire department's perspective we would love to not ever have burning in our city our res residents are happy uh are are really well coached to be aware and to be cautious of some of these kind of things and so but that's what we've we've found um so uh we're going to have a chance for questions in just a second but our recommendation is for us to approve the amended ordinance and then a Next Step that we could consider is lobbying Tallahassee for home roll relief um if it's our perspective that um having a pile bur in the middle of our very residential suburban community doesn't make sense and shouldn't make sense um the possibility for us to impact that um would have to be a change to the current state statute questions from yes sir that's that's that concludes our presentation that concludes okay I I I think we have no choice I think it's pretty obvious yes sir yeah it looks like we do have to uh amend the ordinance my only question is um what is the extent to which we can regulate the pile burning so once the permit is granted can we check on the permit are we able to enforce um whatever it is that you all can enforce I don't pretend to know what what that looks like so yes ma'am we don't have that Authority but we do have um a consistent relationship with the Florida Forest Service um I'm they're aware that we're making this presentation today um and so then there are we did have a question from the public recently um regarding what would be the penalties associated with someone who um violated their um um you know their stuff and it ranges from a warning just like you know the sheriff sometimes gives for a person who violates a traffic law but they don't want to give them the full ticket all the way up to potentially criminal stuff um and specifically uh there's a license to become a certified burner um but that doesn't transfer the liability associated with the burning from the owner of the property to the burner the owner of the property retains all the liability so the certified burner I'm sure has some associated with that um but none of it is uh transferred away excuse me from the property owner and then those certified burners go through a process to become um a certified burner in the State of Florida and they're subject to recertification but there's certain listing of points kind of similar to a driver's license and so violation of um you know specific conditions um Can can be related to point totals that could have uh you know revocation of that uh certification got it thank you okay I um just uh I guess curiosity questions um does the the the wind speed or wind direction play into any of this yes sir a burn permit is issued on a daily basis so weather is a huge Factor related to uh this scenario um and some of the other narly narrowly tailored reasons that you could restrict the burning would be proximity to uh you know VIs ability associated with a roadway um proximity to a healthcare facility proximity to a school I'm trying to think if there's any other uh specific ones Associated those are the three largest ones but every day the Florida Forest Services take into consideration the moisture content of what they're trying to burn um and uh the dispersion which is how fast the smoke Rises into the air the wind speeds um there are there are burn days that are great burn days and burn days that are not great birthdays and what we've had the most success with working with the Florida Forest Service when he uh when they are familiar with the local burners they're willing to authorize several piles on a good burn day and so we get through it and so instead of taking a problem and making it a six-month problem we can make it a two-e problem for those residents and often times we don't receive nearly the complaints when they are are listening to the smes but that's just a suggestion it's not um a possibility um or it's not a it's not a thing that they can uh require okay and and then just finally for me the um after the the the burning is complete is there a requirement on the part of the permit holder to do anything with the ground or is there a an after event um condition that the property has to be put in I don't know the answer to that and I bet it's specific to the you know the rest of the of the work associated with you know the improvements of that land area um what we're specifically talking about is land clearing de which is developmental related pile burning it's their own mess they got to clean up I guess at the end so the next the next steps associated with that are probably site specific um I I don't think from a Florida Forest Service perspective yes sir that they're concerned with um that but something that is definitely a requirement is you're not allowed to haul that material somewhere else and burn it um it's prohibited by the statute so they have to do it at the site that they're at they can mulch it and haul it away that's a permitted thing um and we've got that happening in some sites in the city today um one of the sites that was burning changed and they can do some things there's several different options one of them is air curtain incinerator burning that's what's been going on at the Royal Palm site um and that burns hotter and faster but that's also a smaller amount right so we've been doing this all summer there okay thank you so if there no other questions I'd open the item up to the public any comment uh first of all I want to appreciate to Chief bar hill because I know he's been working hard with this we do not have the forest fire on our side at all on the side of the residents uh Florida is gear for the developers and this is what greed brings is for them easier to burn than to cheap it and maybe even use it on their side uh the uh through the years that been here I don't think the forest fire really care much about us because we've been smoking smoke left and right the problem is with the city of palmos is that is a particular City we are a developing City we have a lot of green areas and vacant lands that are going to be developed in and these partiel burnings are allowed and I don't believe the forest fire really really does the job that for example ch very Hill will do for us because there's been people here that has been affected on their health it's a health issue for people that has uh breathing uh oxygen especially elderly little children can be affected and honestly speaking my experience since I've been here in 91 and why I started bringing this issue to our fire department it is because the people are suffering they end up in a hospital and our citizens are not not the type that to come here and speak in public about their issues you know they are concerned about retaliation and all other things so I brought it and it's and it's a reality and uh the forest fire will never do as good job if we need to Lobby tahashi we need to Lobby to make an exception to Palos because we have a lot of green Aras we are not Jacksonville or Daytona that they they have green Aras in the middle of the city they're to be developed we have the problem and maybe if there is time and it doesn't cost a fortune to L it tahi and especially tell them because we have a lot of developing areas that's all thank you thank you for your comment uh any other public comment seeing none I will close public comment and uh return to the de any final uh no other no uh is there thank you chief for your work on this I know you've gotten kind of the runaround from different agencies so I appreciate I appreciate your diligence there's no direction that you require today right no this will be on your agenda for next week as ordinance first reading very good thank you thank you and thank you morgas for all your help we now move down to item number six which be a presentation regarding exterior building house colors um mayor as our team is um approaching the presentation table just wanted to give you um some background uh we gave you a presentation in June and then you asked us to come back with some um additional colors uh to take a look at uh staff has prepared a presentation to review those colors as well as have you have some color swatches in front of you um up at the dayas so um Tracy and Barbara and Ry are here to uh present okay the floor okay the floor is yours okay good afternoon mayor and city council I'm Tracy does zoning supervisor joined by barara Gman code enforcement manager we are here to present to you the second installment regarding exterior colors in the city of Palm Coast on June 11th 2024 council member Haider requested options for driveway callers and city council requested staff provide a presentation to potentially offer more color options for the residential homes and to check with HOAs and surrounding municipalities as to how they regulate color so the topics that we're going to be discussing um we're going to do a recap of the current code requirements what other municipalities in the area regulate options for adding house colors and staff recommen recommendations for regulating driveway colors and then city council options and your direction so the the first few slides will be a brief recap of our June presentation the city uses light reflectance value lrv scale to assist in determining if a color meets our code in order to be less subjective in its decision process lrv is a measure of visible and usable light that is reflected from a surface when illuminated by a light source simply put lrv measures the percentage of light of paint color reflects on the lrv scale 0 to 25 are allowed as accent colors except for our prohibited colors and 25 to 80 is the range for our defined Earth Tones and any color ranging from 80 to 100 is currently allowed as a light pastel how can you tell what the lrv is well lrv is part of a standard color system using a numeric scale that is frequently included on the backs of color samples or in the index in the fand de the lrv can also most always be found on the web via search for paint color and manufacturer the lrv scale goes from zero which absorbs all light and we know as black to 100 which reflects all light and we know as white chapter 13 of the Land Development code addresses colors and specifically for house scholar States the city of pomos regulates the exterior color of all residential buildings with the exception of property zoned MPD which are exempt from section 13206 B1 section 13206 B1 exterior colors colors of walls a light pastel colors and white acceptable light pastel colors and white she'll have lrv of 80 or greater B Earth Tones Earth Tones include Shades shades of brown brown taupe or Sandy taupe beige terracotta Olive sage and gray an acceptable Earth Tone shade shall have an lrv of 25 or greater again this definition of Earth Tones is what is what is in our current Land Development code not what may be found online when researching Earth Tones accent colors are all colors except for prohibited colors and should only be applied to architectural elements except garage doors which shall be pastel or Earth Tone colors may have an lrv less than 25 and may include black um these are the prohibited colors that we have defined in the Land Development code section 1402 glossery fuchsia a dark a dark purplish red color a red with a tint of purple or hot bright pink magenta a dark purplish red color purple color combinations using Reds and blues to include colors known as Violet and orange color combinations using yellows and reds lacking visible brownish Shades how do other municipalities in the area regulate colors the city of Flagler Beach has no restrictions except in the overlay district there the colors are meant to be an integral integral element of the design and should create visual order vanel has no restrictions Port Orange color shall be Earth Tones and pastels the selection of Earth Tones shall be in accordance with the definition provided in their code the selection of pastel shall be limited to those colors having a minimum white content of 90% the city Daytona Beach Shores they require Earth Tones and pastels city of Orman Beach they require Earth Tones and pastels and the City of Delona has no no regulations for existing owner occupied properties new construction requires muted Earth Tones we also check with some mpds um and most of the local mpds regulate colors via review process by their individual homeowner associations subdivisions such as Grand Haven Park Place Palm Coast Plantation and hammock Dunes are examples of this their HOA review processes use lrv Earth Tone and prohibited colors to determine approval many of the new mpds within the city have sent their color selection pallets to zoning staff for cursory review to make sure they are not using prohibited colors house colar should we add new ones in June of 2024 city council requested that staff propose options to expand the color regulations for residential housing and to include the driveways a new category of proposed colors was created and called light Bermuda colors light Bermuda colors are proposed as peaches pinks lavenders Blues in any greens with an lrv of 65 or greater currently none of these colors are allowed unless they meet the pastel requirement with a light reflective value of 80 or greater with the exception of sage and olive green and they are both part of our defined Earth Tones and since the computer screens and the TV monitors don't currently depict the colors um I've given you envelope and there's also a board with the original color swatches um at the front door okay so this slide shows some of the peach colors that would have an lrv of 65 or greater and again this is not a all the colors this is just we grabbed some to just to give you guys an idea plus every paint manufacturer is going to have their own colors um so these are peaches these are some of the pinks um some lavenders and then blues and finally these are non-ear tone shades of green with the lrv of 65 or greater currently the city doesn't regulate the colors of driveways front doors with the exception of prohibited colors mailboxes or gutters the city staff recommends that driveways be allowed all colors except prohibited colors um since code enforcement staff doesn't have issues that involve complaints for driveway colors this is why staff is making this recommendation in the June meeting city council had requested that we provide the lrv for the homes that currently have code cases for color originally there were five cases and when we went out and look two of them have come into compliance and these next three slides are houses that are still not in compliance with the current LDC the home on this slide you see has a light reflective value of a five it does not um the house color has a light reflective of a 51 on this slide and this home's lrv is a 73 so the following are options for council's consideration keep the Land Development code AS is uh show this presentation to the beac and the pldb at workshops to obtain feedback for your consideration or amend the code to allow the additional colors as presented and that's it just in terms of process is there a reason that this wouldn't have gone to the U beautification uh board first it it will go to them but it was Council direction to provide some more information uh another presentation so if Council selects us we can go and do this presentation and if Council selects us to make modifications to Our Land Development code we will go to the beac with those changes with the recommendation and also the planning board comments well we're literally here because of one house basically from what I understand and and that person is in the audience today do we have a sample of what that house color is that we're talking about we don't know exactly all we could do is go out with um our fand deck and hold it up and try to figure it out cuz we don't know exactly what color was used on that house so we determined it to be pretty much like a naval Naval gray if if you use a Sherwin Williams fand de I mean a naval blue uhuh which is or in the Navy I guess it's called sort of looks like and and what is the problem with that color it's a five and it has to be at least a 25 to be well actually blue is not even an Earth Tone so it doesn't even meet the definition of an earth tone by our definition of an Earth Tone and I understand that the website does have if you Google Earth Tones some sites show Blues as Earth Tones but our Land Development code does not define Blues in our Earth Tones if if I may just if if we were if somebody were to suggest that we change the reflectivity by Five Points would that make this no longer an issue with this particular house it would not it' still be a oh okay right okay but if we were to recognize it as an Earth Tone would that change it no Sor I don't know a lot about this so understood um no because even if this was if we decided a blue was an Earth Tone it would still need to be a 25 or greater it's still darker than a 25 by what we can tell without knowing the exact color or manufacturer of the Paint wait hold on what do you mean by what we can take what does that mean well if we don't know the color the only way and it's an ourl development code that we can determine paint color is by taking one of these and going out and looking at somebody's house and matching it and then looking at the back of the the thing to Fig the chip to figure out the paint so Mr Dano what what happened is there was a code violation on this house um the original application that came in for the color showed that it was going to meet our Land Development code and it didn't it was complaint driven and then they have a code enforcement we don't have the actual color so what happened is because it's code enforcement staff went out there and all all they did was try the best to compare you know with with some of these to see what color it was and kind of guesstimated it so we don't know the exact but we're probably pretty close okay I'm just trying to get some background because I mean I I think that if we're going to force someone to repaint their house we have to do more than guess is what I'm saying we have to be very I think precite precise on this so we don't end up in a legal situation which I guess is possible I don't know if it is or not but I want to make sure that whatever we're doing is actually precise well because it's a blue it's not one of our Earth Tones so it doesn't meet any of our Co right so we could add blue as an Earth Tone If it's council's decision to do that I I I I mean I'm not sure we want to but I'm saying we we certainly could yeah I'm not interested in doing that but um but it's a possibility it's a possibility but but I'm sorry so so um I mean I don't have any objection to Blue personally um you know well I do remember there was a time where we I believe it was in Palm Coast we had a deputy who painted this house blue and fortunately he had to repaint it and I think some painting company volunteered to do it for free if I'm not correct and I was kind of like let's just take the next step with that though so the next step after that is what is the next step no no in terms of okay you open the door um help me with that part now do we need to go to the purification board to tell us what the consequences well maybe they need to be looking at this first that was the reason for my question I'm just wondering if we're kind of stepping over them I think this should go to the beac but I I I think we're kind of hyperfocused on this one house when we need to look at this more globally so I my question is why did we choose 65 as the new lrb we went from 80 to 65 that seems like quite a jump because there's not a lot of colors like if I were to give you this fand deck you're not going to find many options between 65 and between 65 and or even between 70 and 80 we were just trying to offer some without being too crazy um some Choice some color for the city yes no that's that's a perfectly fine answer I just wasn't sure um because I haven't looked at this as you all have as you know um so I'll just give you my initial thoughts I do think it should go to beac that's why we have them um and and plld drb um my initial thoughts are that we don't brought in the Earth Tone categories that we keep it as is and that the blues need to fall within the blues I don't have an objection generally speaking to broadening um the lrv to 65 I I think the you know offering some more options especially in the State of Florida um is perfectly reasonable I think it kind of goes with the vibe so to speak um but I'm not but I'm not interested in um I think Earth Tones are pretty standard um Blue's not usually in my opinion in the earth tones um so that's just my IAL thoughts but I think this is why we have beac so they should definitely be the next stop before we make any decisions up here yeah I I've often lost arguments with significant others over colors and rooms and are notoriously colorblind I will tell you yeah yeah really offwhite is kind of where my brain is at But but so I'm really sort of like these colors all look really nice you know like a little Key West sort of thing we were saying earlier but um yeah I agree we should pass this on and get their ruling and uh you know I'd love Mr Mayor I think we should open up this to public comment because we do have one homeowner here who's affected by this like to hear that side yep I agree um I'm just trying to find a I'm just trying to get the definition of of Earth Tones but it's it's not Happ home and ask your wife doesn't matter what you think um so I will go ahead and open this up uh to public comment so please come forward okay so I wrote you guys a an email do just for just for the record Put your uh uh introduce yourself for us Mindy Melendez the blue house um I wrote you guys a letter on Thursday September 5th along with the city employees um I'm not sure if you read it or not so I'm going to kind of go over my response um so I was asking for the color palette to be delayed the vote um because it's an important issue to my family as both it could affect financially and timec consuming I called last December and spoke to a city employee which I'm sure is on a recorded line somewhere and when um I asked about the colors they told me Earth Tones I looked up earth tones on the internet um I should have dug deeper I guess and I pulled up a couple they do have blue on there um so then um when we started the process of we bought the land next to us we build it um an addition we had the GC do our plans um we did not know anything that he put down the house color or anything um we were in the process of this project for the first time and the city is well aware that my husband was in there several times because we put a wall in the back of our house um so they knew that it was new for us and um we were never told that Sherman Williams had a color chart we were never told any of that we went to Lowe's did our home shopping we got gallons and gallons of P of paint to paint our house Lowe's never said it was exterior paint so you know you're painting an exterior house Lowe's never said there was uh a law so or a code ordinance so we painted our house during the Home Project we had people coming in our house to uh um do our permits approving the permits not one city official told us that was not allowed nobody said anything until 48 felwood complained about our house color he said he called in to say hey I want to paint my house that color and asked the question well then they put it as a complaint and they didn't come to our house didn't put a little yellow sticker on our house we got a mail so we didn't know anything until we got this letter in the mail um stating that we were not allowed to have our house painted that color so that was about a month later so the whole process doesn't make sense to me and I just want to ensure that this isn't voted upon until we have a new Council where it can't be a two to2 vote and it cost us a lot of additional funds um because we saw that happen last Tuesday I do have I do have where I called different cities and um they have have Palm Coast Plantation just allowed and approved a navy blue house in their AR committee I got that yesterday in the mail and can I say why my last thing um so I looked at the HOAs Grand Landings has blue houses they go through the art committee but they're allowed in there so I'm a little confused on who oversees these HOAs is it you guys very good fair question um do you want to go ahead and you can respond to that I have a question was any type of um variance or anything like that asked for in this case I mean we've seen other cases come before us where you know the homeowner says Hey XYZ happen we had um the dock issue uh come before us I mean was that process followed or explored at all in this case yeah I Barbara Grossman I don't think that um you requested a variance have you I don't even know what a variance is I'm sorry okay so I would encourage that process and looking at adjusting the entire code for the if a variance is allowed or an application for a variance I don't know we'll we'll investigate that but I I think our variances cover dimensional standards um so I don't think this is going to be permitted as as part of VAR and staff just but we'll look into it if you could just clarify the fact that the some of the uh locations referenced are not within the city and not bound by the uh City of Palm Coast yeah real quick uh we we had changed the code several years ago okay and all of our you know our master plan developments our homeowner a lot of our homeowner associations are exempt from our color code because they have their own requirements and regulations and at the point the idea was this and the reason and the logic behind it is this you know the original 42 46,000 platter how how how the original ITT Lots had those Covenant restriction that regulated colors right so those still remained in place when we became a city but city council at the time wanted to open up more colors and it seemed very logical at time for some of these new developments that are outside like your Palm Coast Park or your town center doesn't necessarily need to follow those original it boundary homes so in conclusion our master plan developments are you know are exempt from our color code but they do come in and they you know want to know our colors they they typically would have similar colors than than we do but like she mentioned Palm Coast Plantation Grand Haven we won't see those they they're allowed to have their Blues they're behind their they have their own neighborhood association they can have a different color code than us but they're not in the city of Palm Coast they are in the city uh Grand Haven is Palm Coast Plantation is not she said Palm Coast Plantation and Grand and Grand Haven Landings is yes got it very good so I I I think what I'm seeing here is I don't think there was anything intentionally done by this homeowner or husband it seems to me like you know they weren't aware of all of our codes but it neither were some of our inspectors that went out during their their process which is unfortunate because it would be nice if if all of our people are you know prepared or educated that enough to say oh by the way you may not want to use that color you may want to do this but I don't think there was anything you know intentional here this is an unfortunate circumstance to say the least I'm hoping that during this process as we move forward on this we're not putting any additional penal penalties on this homeowner no um in our last presentation when we met with Council all colors were on hold until a decision is so it won't go until the very end so we're okay so I I just want to make sure that they're not being you know if they have to pay no they're in a hold pattern with the code case Okay so and I'm also concerned I don't quite understand why we can't do a variance on this I mean if Council was to decide that is there something prohibiting us yeah our Our Land Development code calls out what you can and can't do variances for and typically in Our Land Development code it's for like the dimensional standard so if your setback was 10 ft and you went 10 and 1/2 ft you can get a variance for a dimensional this there's no Dimension this is subjective on on colors there's uh what are you going to get a variance for I guess maybe the light reflect a value number but that's something uh Marcus and I will will research but I I think it's pretty clear in our code that you can't but we will research it and and we weren't trying to be defi it person I totally believe that I think this is so is it the council's pleasure to let the beautification board uh uh handle this yeah and then if there should be a request for a variance it seems to me that that would be part of the process they're saying we going to research it look into it yes still confused staff is going to research with the city attorney as to if the lrv can be determined as a variance if it's not determined that way then there is no variance process we're going to research the issue and get back to you okay okay so that's where we stand at the moment but how long will this take day I mean today maybe no are you wanting um the team to take it to the beac and plrb in the in the yes in the minimum okay so are we looking well BAC meets monthly monthly yeah may be able to get at the end of this month we'll try the best the first available we will get them on I think this would be great if it came back to this Council since we've been down this road on this as opposed to a new Council this you'd have to start over again I would think for efficiency purposes yeah I I just if possible a new person in that seat in a month so you'll have five can I ask a question real quick you know with the air conditioning how they gave where they had to put something in front of it but the people who who got to leave their air conditioner that way until they replaced it they were okay is there something that they could do that the next time we paint it we go within code I don't think we can answer that the way the Land Development code is worded when your husband came in to be able to do the color sheet or the contractor when the contractor first came in it indicated that if you were painting it the existing color then it was okay when it came in we had the existing color from when it originally was painted so of course when the when the call came in concerning the color we went back and looked at the color sheet and the color sheet didn't match what the color of the house was that's when it was determined that the off-white was um in in a navy blue family and at that point it was not in compliance with the Land Development code in the lrv so this was a professional painter that painted this house my husband oh okay all right so it wasn't a cont I mean we've we've owned and bought over 132 houses sure in this community and we've never had an issue yeah I just wanted to make sure it wasn't a contractor who should have known better right let's let's let legal let's let it come back to us and see if we can't find a a Finish Line with this I think would be and I think I agree that we can get fit this in with the timeline okay very good all right thank you so staff you have uh sufficient direction see yes yes mayor okay thank you [Music] um do I any public comment on this we did already right that was it you just be your final public comment that's it nobody else okay all right and there's no way I'm taking any of these colors home all uh with that then I would uh open up the de for final public oh you want them back can have it [Laughter] back no here you go bar for final public comment thank you [Applause] both okay um I think our uh code enforcement the department is the star in Palos my name is syia Pugi since 91 and I know the manager of this code enforcement department when we were not a city and she was in The Arc for it she did a great job then and I can see I'm 81 this kind of work which is not easy to do is it is taking her her youth away I think she does a great job and she enforces what we have and when we come to Pal Coast because we like it why do we want to change it on a different thing so what we have some issues right now with colors and whatever is because we need to ask When we arrive here and I bet 100% that the court enforcement department or the building when they went like Barbara says uh the husband was told the proper color and then it didn't come out the proper color so uh if we make an exemption or sometimes I said even in the county meeting we open um a door for a uh open a kind of worms because uh what other people's going to think about it or if somebody doesn't happen to agree around if not nobody disagrees around the house that's fine but if somebody disagrees then you're going to have to explain why did you approve something certain way I I don't know what's going to end up with this particular home I don't have a problem I don't even know where it's located but when we come to the city of palmos and we go to building or we go to court enforcement and they give us the guidelines we need to go by the guidelines and this is one of the things that keeps pumos beautiful and have made us move here that's why I'm still here and the one thing that I want to say once more is this um when it comes about this the economic development one of the things they said is quality of life and pricing of homes and when it comes to the quality of life we are asking for things for our quality of life and once more I'm going to ask you right now that Florida Park Drive today has 8,000 cars some of them speeding so close to their homes now when the Wawa that the city of Palco government Lobby to bring to Florida Park Drive will add more headache more traffic there and that has to be resolved please thank you very much thank you for your comment any other members of the public want to address me this time seeing no one come forward I'll close public participation and come to the day for Final city council member comments just a few things um as we're all probably aware tomorrow is September 11th so um if we could just keep extra thoughts and prayers for all of our firefighters and police um and just maybe tell maybe tell a first responder thank you for what they do for our community um uh while we're in this meeting speaking of eating and uh quality of life we got all of us should have gotten another Bridge alert uh child was um injured I think riding a bicycle on Lake View so just uh kind of a public service announcement please slow down um I think that's the second one on Lake View this year um you know school school is ongoing um kids are out we just need to be careful please be mindful I promise wherever you're going speeding through neighborhood streets and and putting our kids at danger it's not not worth it um you can be 5 minutes late so let's slow down and just be mindful of our kids and and people walking dogs and everybody all of our pedestrians um the last thing I would ask Council and unfortunately there's only three of us um but would ask Council for consensus on kind of a deep dive into some of our policies uh for our Parks um I know currently on the books we have you can smoke in our public parks um also there's been some State legislation or not State legislation but some case law come out regarding um sleeping in parks and so I kind of want to look at that um and get a legal analysis of sleeping in parks and also smoking in Parks so just maybe a a look at what our current policies or code is regarding our public parks if I can get consensus on um a look at those because I we haven't done that since I've been on Council and I think it's probably right you just want to review the ordinances or yeah see if there's anything we want to update I I specifically would I would like to see us look at the smoking um in in our public so would this include the new legislation that's being bantered about in Tallahassee as well or not I'm just trying to so we get it you know what new legislation with regard to requirements for um whether um homeless folks can sleep in a location or not it's sort of interconnected I just want to yeah it would it would include that it would include that okay so that's okay and the county just passed an ordinance I believe on no smoking in so all that that kind of so that's going to be on a future agenda yes we if the consensus of the council is to look at that ordinance we can um add it to a future agenda we would want to Workshop it first um and then have that ordinance prepared yeah I would I would like that that is that for the next for the next Council that would it would give us some time to work well that's why I brought the other piece up because I think there's you got to you know get to the bottom of it so to have a robust discussion and I don't have a preference as to whether or not it's this Council or the next Council you have consensus one in the pipeline good yeah okay anything else thank you all right with that uh anything uh nothing sir I just had a few quick updates um thank you miss pontier tomorrow is September 11th and we have our remembrance event uh we are monitoring the weather it's been a rainy week so we will make that determination tomorrow afternoon um just wanted to share a vote for Waterfront Park um we're being recognized as a prestigious great places in Florida award so we can vote up until um I believe October 4th um and then just wanted to call your attention to your future worksheet agenda worksheet we are trying to work through some items um and try and create this transition plan between this Council and the future Council so um it was this council's decision to to cancel the November 5th business meeting which is an evening meeting because it's election day so just we're going to keep that as a canceled meeting but trying to work through maybe um a meeting on September 12th to close out any business and then November the 19th would be ceremonial we would certify the results and then welcome the new Council um and then we heard direction today that they would uh work towards that city manager brochure so just wanted to kind of forecast for what we've got coming in the next couple of weeks so the agenda for the 12th is already drafted uh it's tentative tentative but we as staff are working internally about what that would look like if you have to if you have to alter it okay but if that's okay with you guys we would have a meeting after that Workshop or or just have a meeting so that we could um uh clean up any outstanding business and how long is the uh agenda that precedes that PO tentative Workshop not long not not long as of now as of now okay okay very good okay one thing for next week um we are going to have a business meeting and then we'll take a break and then have the workshop we have to be out of the room by 5: because we have planning board tomorrow night so as we're considering timeliness for the interviews of the seat 4 um applications uh we just need to be out of this room by five for planning board and that's all I had mayor anybody else okay a motion I'll make that motion wait come talk to me hold we're we're adjourned come on [Music]